[ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 116, Issue 2

Pamela Francis pamelajofrancis at gmail.com
Fri Dec 9 07:43:04 PST 2016


subject: Bruce Redwine's comments:

>That is, he doesn?t want to engage in any kind of
> serious discussion?for whatever reason.  (So the advice of one
> academic?time is better spent writing articles for tenure and promotion.)

To Bruce and other members of the listserve:

Mr. Redwine's comment is exactly the kind of statement that indicates that
this listserve has become a forum for personal grievances rather than any
sort of useful discussion. I don't know what you have against people who do
academic work, Bruce, but I refuse to even take part in a forum where the
very nature of my life's work is somehow considered to be so much blather.
No one has ever, to my knowledge (though admittedly, I don't use this forum
for the reason stated) said that you don't have any sort of validity in
your research just because you are not an academic; however, I do not see
the same respect for those of us who do make our living by teaching. You
have no idea what teaching in a university in the US is like now--tenure
barely even exists, and James Clawson and I both teach in institutions
where research and publishing are secondary to the instructional components
of our job. It is hard work, and time-consuming work, and to be accused of
some sort of snobbery towards non-academics that I know neither James
Clawson nor I nor any of the other Board members possess is insulting and
uncalled-for.

As for out-dated technology; well, yes, listserves are outdated. I
subscribed to about five of them about ten years ago. As far as I know,
this is the only one that is still extant. If you choose not to use social
media, so be it, but I find our page to be lively and informative, and I
have come to know a great number of people (most, for your information, NOT
academics) from all over the world. We are investigating other forums, but
I will say that the listserve has become little more than a place for you
to make derogatory comments about other Durrellians and this is the main
reason that I, at least, will be more than happy to see this forum go away.

I promote Durrell scholarship, but I also promote general discussion on
both Durrells, and if you have ever attended an OMG (I think you were in
Victoria?), you would know that a number of our participants are not
affiliated with universities, but are thoughtful admirers of Larry and his
work. Our Society has room for all those who are interested in him, but it
does NOT have room for people who are for some reason dismissive of those
from one or the other "camp." The fact that I have to refer to two "camps"
is a problem, and one that I never dreamed would be an issue in this
Society.

I realize this is not a well-written reply--I am in the middle of giving a
final, which is some of that work I do to get "promoted," which means that
in another three years, I'll get another $300 a year added to my salary.
Having read some of your missives, I know that you will likely tear apart
my writing. But I have read too many of these mean-spirited posts, and I
have just had enough. This listserve is not in the spirit of genuine
dialogue about a fascinating and complicated writer, and I, for one, do not
mourn its passing.

Sincerely,
Pamela J. Francis, Vice-President, International Lawrence Durrell Society
and Editor, The Lawrence Durrell Society Herald.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 2:00 PM, <ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca> wrote:

> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. LISTSERV (William Apt)
>    2. ILDS Listserv (Bruce Redwine)
>    3. Re: ILDS Listserv (PETER BALDWIN)
>    4. Durrell in Hebrew (Rony Alfandary)
>    5. Re: Durrell in Hebrew (James Gifford)
>    6. Re: Durrell in Hebrew (Rony Alfandary)
>    7. Re: Durrell in Hebrew (Kennedy Gammage)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 13:33:43 -0600
> From: William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com>
> To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: [ilds] LISTSERV
> Message-ID:
>         <CAMN1=f9L-wADZ8c57oKMKQZGFMHh7N6Dh3xMorFU=
> Jk_JbJjhw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dearest all:
>
> I use neither Facebook nor Twitter. Does that mean that I will not be able
> to participate in or keep up
> with discussions unless I join these outlets?
>
> Billy
> --
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:09:30 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>
> To: Sumantra Nag <ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] ILDS Listserv
> Message-ID: <3246813F-49D5-4AD2-B80A-8453DFB964AD at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As a due-paying member of the ILDS, I think we need a clarification on the
> function of the ILDS listserv.  Let me quote James Clawson, the incoming
> president of the ILDS, as he explains in the current Herald:
> In truth, we?ve been outgrowing the technology behind the listserv for a
> few years now, and it has with me become a distraction from the work it was
> meant to serve. We recommend to users that they move the discussion
> elsewhere? for example, to Facebook, where Pamela keeps up the public
> group, or to Twitter, where Charles maintains an active presence with @
> DurrellSociety. With 130 members in the first of these and 1,600 followers
> of the latter, these groups serve far more active participants than the
> listserv, and they?re a vibrant means to reach outward beyond the invisible
> walls of what could otherwise become an echo chamber.
>
> Now, what is Clawson really saying?  The listserv, to which he almost
> never contributed, has become a ?distraction.?  (If I recall correctly,
> Clawson made only one brief comment re the idea of Durrell?s latent
> ?homosexuality.?)   That is, he doesn?t want to engage in any kind of
> serious discussion?for whatever reason.  (So the advice of one
> academic?time is better spent writing articles for tenure and promotion.)
> And what was the listserv ?meant to serve??  What is it now intended to
> become?  Presumably a vehicle for a kind of Durrellian agitprop, which can
> be more effectively propagated on social networks such as Twitter and
> Facebook.  And why did the listserv become an ?echo chamber??  Because,
> with one notable exception, academics never contribute to the discussions.
> Yes, Clawson's reasoning is circular.
>
> I don?t use social networks and never will.  These are not forums for
> ?discussion,? as Clawson claims.  They?re places for dropping one-liners
> and postcard impressions.  I?m very suspicious of those who use these
> outlets.  I think that they pander to the craving for fame and recognition
> and that they promote lazy thinking, the kind president-elect Donald Trump
> indulges in.
>
> Bruce
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 05:47:40 +0000
> From: PETER BALDWIN <delospeter at hotmail.com>
> To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Listserv
> Message-ID:
>         <LOXP123MB114356C7FF998D82D6432006C8840 at LOXP123MB1143.
> GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> A number of comments :
>
> 1. The ILDS needs to keep up with the times and consider how best to use
> social media
>
> 2. All such media are open to abuse and that, regrettably, has to be
> factored into our use of such media
>
> 3. If James' comments reflect a change of ILDS policy determined by the
> ILDS committee, I would rather it had be sent out first via The Herald for
> consultation.
>
> 4. Against my better judgement, I subscribe to both Facebook and Twitter.
> Contrary to my expectation when I subscribed to Facebook with a view to
> keeping in touch with far-fling family, I consider it useless. However, I
> have found it invaluable for special interest groups where info and photos
> can be shared - both helpful and enjoyable. I am still finding my feet with
> Twitter but, again, think it is a good forum for views on shared interest.
>
> 5. I personally would keep the list serve since there is no character
> limit.
>
> Hope these comments help
>
> Peter Baldwin
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 7 Dec 2016, at 23:43, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com<mailto:
> bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> As a due-paying member of the ILDS, I think we need a clarification on the
> function of the ILDS listserv.  Let me quote James Clawson, the incoming
> president of the ILDS, as he explains in the current Herald:
>
> In truth, we've been outgrowing the technology behind the listserv for a
> few years now, and it has with me become a distraction from the work it was
> meant to serve. We recommend to users that they move the discussion
> elsewhere- for example, to Facebook, where Pamela keeps up the public
> group, or to Twitter, where Charles maintains an active presence with @
> DurrellSociety. With 130 members in the first of these and 1,600 followers
> of the latter, these groups serve far more active participants than the
> listserv, and they're a vibrant means to reach outward beyond the invisible
> walls of what could otherwise become an echo chamber.
>
> Now, what is Clawson really saying?  The listserv, to which he almost
> never contributed, has become a "distraction."  (If I recall correctly,
> Clawson made only one brief comment re the idea of Durrell's latent
> "homosexuality.")   That is, he doesn't want to engage in any kind of
> serious discussion-for whatever reason.  (So the advice of one
> academic-time is better spent writing articles for tenure and promotion.)
> And what was the listserv "meant to serve?"  What is it now intended to
> become?  Presumably a vehicle for a kind of Durrellian agitprop, which can
> be more effectively propagated on social networks such as Twitter and
> Facebook.  And why did the listserv become an "echo chamber?"  Because,
> with one notable exception, academics never contribute to the discussions.
> Yes, Clawson's reasoning is circular.
>
> I don't use social networks and never will.  These are not forums for
> "discussion," as Clawson claims.  They're places for dropping one-liners
> and postcard impressions.  I'm very suspicious of those who use these
> outlets.  I think that they pander to the craving for fame and recognition
> and that they promote lazy thinking, the kind president-elect Donald Trump
> indulges in.
>
> Bruce
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca<mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 08:12:02 +0200
> From: Rony Alfandary <alfandary at gmail.com>
> To: Durrell List Serve <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: [ilds] Durrell in Hebrew
> Message-ID:
>         <CAD9SkgtUsHzDwfi9ijoQY8MydkzTpnxxmoOQ2dD7mXQ+GHOoaA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear friends, I am very happy to announce the publication of my Hebrew book
> `Exile and Return - a Psychoanalytic study of Lawrence Durrell's The
> Alexandria Quartet`. It is published with Carmel Publishers Inc. which is a
> fine publishing house in Israel, well respected in academic circles and
> also well distributed. It is the first ever book written about Durrell in
> Hebrew (to the best of my knowledge). I hope it will be received well. in
> my preface to the book, I mentioned the generous encouragement and
> assistance I received from some members of the Society when I began the
> work, especially during the 2012 London conference.
> Best,
>
> *Rony Alfandary*, Ph.D.
> *Clinical Social Worker, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist*
>
> Postgraduate Program of Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
>
> Dept. of Social Work
>
> Bar-Ilan University
>
> Ramat-Gan 51905
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 December 2016 at 01:09, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As a due-paying member of the ILDS, I think we need a clarification on
> the
> > function of the ILDS listserv.  Let me quote James Clawson, the incoming
> > president of the ILDS, as he explains in the current *Herald:*
> >
> > In truth, we?ve been outgrowing the technology behind the listserv for a
> > few years now, and it has with me become a distraction from the work it
> > was meant to serve. We recommend to users that they move the discussion
> > elsewhere? for example, to Facebook, where Pamela keeps up the public
> > group, or to Twitter, where Charles maintains an active presence with @
> > DurrellSociety. With 130 members in the first of these and 1,600
> followers
> > of the latter, these groups serve far more active participants than the
> > listserv, and they?re a vibrant means to reach outward beyond the
> invisible
> > walls of what could otherwise become an echo chamber.
> >
> > Now, what is Clawson really saying?  The listserv, to which he almost
> > never contributed, has become a ?distraction.?  (If I recall correctly,
> > Clawson made only one brief comment re the idea of Durrell?s latent
> > ?homosexuality.?)   That is, he doesn?t want to engage in any kind of
> > serious discussion?for whatever reason.  (So the advice of one
> > academic?time is better spent writing articles for tenure and promotion.)
> >  And what was the listserv ?meant to serve??  What is it now intended to
> > become?  Presumably a vehicle for a kind of Durrellian agitprop, which
> can
> > be more effectively propagated on social networks such as Twitter and
> > Facebook.  And why did the listserv become an ?echo chamber??  Because,
> > with one notable exception, academics never contribute to the
> discussions.
> > Yes, Clawson's reasoning is circular.
> > I don?t use social networks and never will.  These are not forums for
> > ?discussion,? as Clawson claims.  They?re places for dropping one-liners
> > and postcard impressions.  I?m very suspicious of those who use these
> > outlets.  I think that they pander to the craving for fame and
> recognition
> > and that they promote lazy thinking, the kind president-elect Donald
> Trump
> > indulges in.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 10:16:38 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell in Hebrew
> Message-ID: <89a1d12e-ce12-f419-8590-6d9652208dbb at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Enormous congratulations, Rony!  Can you share the full details?
>
> Very best,
> James
>
> On 2016-12-07 10:12 PM, Rony Alfandary wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends, I am very happy to announce the publication of my Hebrew
> > book `Exile and Return - a Psychoanalytic study of Lawrence Durrell's
> > The Alexandria Quartet`. It is published with Carmel Publishers Inc.
> > which is a fine publishing house in Israel, well respected in academic
> > circles and also well distributed. It is the first ever book written
> > about Durrell in Hebrew (to the best of my knowledge). I hope it will be
> > received well. in my preface to the book, I mentioned the generous
> > encouragement and assistance I received from some members of the Society
> > when I began the work, especially during the 2012 London conference.
> > Best,
> >
> > *Rony Alfandary*, Ph.D.
> > /Clinical Social Worker, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist/
> >
> > Postgraduate Program of Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
> >
> > Dept. of Social Work
> >
> > Bar-Ilan University
> >
> > Ramat-Gan 51905
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:25:50 +0200
> From: Rony Alfandary <alfandary at gmail.com>
> To: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>,  Durrell List Serve
>         <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell in Hebrew
> Message-ID:
>         <CAD9Skgs0MyQ6ACAg30i4k5Lc9q5vATibLys5FoEy7ojjNGUnJQ at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> thank you! if you look at the FB page of the society you will see the
> cover. i dont think you can upload images here, can you? attached is an
> English abstract.
> Was that what you meant?
> rony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rony Alfandary*, Ph.D.
> *Clinical Social Worker, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist*
>
> Postgraduate Program of Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
>
> Dept. of Social Work
>
> Bar-Ilan University
>
> Ramat-Gan 51905
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 December 2016 at 20:16, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Enormous congratulations, Rony!  Can you share the full details?
> >
> > Very best,
> > James
> >
> > On 2016-12-07 10:12 PM, Rony Alfandary wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Dear friends, I am very happy to announce the publication of my Hebrew
> >> book `Exile and Return - a Psychoanalytic study of Lawrence Durrell's
> >> The Alexandria Quartet`. It is published with Carmel Publishers Inc.
> >> which is a fine publishing house in Israel, well respected in academic
> >> circles and also well distributed. It is the first ever book written
> >> about Durrell in Hebrew (to the best of my knowledge). I hope it will be
> >> received well. in my preface to the book, I mentioned the generous
> >> encouragement and assistance I received from some members of the Society
> >> when I began the work, especially during the 2012 London conference.
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> *Rony Alfandary*, Ph.D.
> >> /Clinical Social Worker, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist/
> >>
> >> Postgraduate Program of Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
> >>
> >> Dept. of Social Work
> >>
> >> Bar-Ilan University
> >>
> >> Ramat-Gan 51905
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 11:38:30 -0800
> From: Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell in Hebrew
> Message-ID:
>         <CANDhJnRhoPEiB1viMyESh-Ky1mS8KqKePopeqgKSThY79zi_sw@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thank you Rony. Very interesting. The bit about Freud and Durrell reminded
> me of a slangy expression my friends used to say: "Who's yer daddy?"
>
> - Ken
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Rony Alfandary <alfandary at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > thank you! if you look at the FB page of the society you will see the
> > cover. i dont think you can upload images here, can you? attached is an
> > English abstract.
> > Was that what you meant?
> > rony
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Rony Alfandary*, Ph.D.
> > *Clinical Social Worker, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist*
> >
> > Postgraduate Program of Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
> >
> > Dept. of Social Work
> >
> > Bar-Ilan University
> >
> > Ramat-Gan 51905
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8 December 2016 at 20:16, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Enormous congratulations, Rony!  Can you share the full details?
> >>
> >> Very best,
> >> James
> >>
> >> On 2016-12-07 10:12 PM, Rony Alfandary wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Dear friends, I am very happy to announce the publication of my Hebrew
> >>> book `Exile and Return - a Psychoanalytic study of Lawrence Durrell's
> >>> The Alexandria Quartet`. It is published with Carmel Publishers Inc.
> >>> which is a fine publishing house in Israel, well respected in academic
> >>> circles and also well distributed. It is the first ever book written
> >>> about Durrell in Hebrew (to the best of my knowledge). I hope it will
> be
> >>> received well. in my preface to the book, I mentioned the generous
> >>> encouragement and assistance I received from some members of the
> Society
> >>> when I began the work, especially during the 2012 London conference.
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> *Rony Alfandary*, Ph.D.
> >>> /Clinical Social Worker, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist/
> >>>
> >>> Postgraduate Program of Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
> >>>
> >>> Dept. of Social Work
> >>>
> >>> Bar-Ilan University
> >>>
> >>> Ramat-Gan 51905
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 116, Issue 2
> ************************************
>
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