[ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 111, Issue 4
CarlOrend
carlorend at gmail.com
Mon Jul 18 13:21:21 PDT 2016
Spengler was a major influence on Miller btw
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 18, 2016, at 14:00, ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Oswald Spengler (Bruce Redwine)
> 2. Re: Oswald Spengler (Richard Pine)
> 3. Durrell's Complete Poems (Bruce Redwine)
> 4. Re: Durrell's Complete Poems (James Gifford)
> 5. Re: Durrell's Complete Poems (James Gifford)
> 6. Re: Oswald Spengler (James Gifford)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:38:14 -0700
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: Sumantra Nag <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [ilds] Oswald Spengler
> Message-ID: <4425ABE4-E22C-4C1B-A717-0D9A58B6007B at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Richard Pine and Charles Sligh agree that Durrell was reading in translation Spengler?s Decline of the West at an early stage in his career, maybe before Corfu (1935). The usual take on Spengler?s influence is that it leads to a decadent view of European society, so Pine writes in Mindscape (2005): the ?Decline of the West underpinned much of the thinking in The Revolt? (123). This is undoubtedly true. Spengler?s influence, however, may be even deeper and extend to Durrell?s ?Heraldic Universe.? Spengler was very much in the Germanic tradition, particularly with respect to Goethe?s Faust and the conclusion to Part II, where the chorus sings, ?Alles Verg?ngliche / Ist nur ein Gleichnis? (12104-05), that is, ?Everything transitory / Is only a metaphor.? Spengler believes this, and so does Durrell ? to wit, another ethereal reality underlies everyday reality. Moreover, like Spengler, Durrell also delights in aphorisms and obscurity (the latter being a German obsession). !
> I?m not suggesting that Durrell picked up some of his ideas and stylistics from Spengler (who also picked up his ideas from his predecessors), rather that Durrell found a friend in Spengler who mirrored his own instincts. This may help to explain why the Germans seem more receptive to Durrell than his native Englishmen.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the confirmation, Charles. So Durrell knew his Spengler in translation, but I doubt he knew in depth other authors such as Paracelus or the Vulgate which he inaccurately quotes. MacNiven has commented that Durrell?s readings were wide and discursive and that he picked up bits and pieces here and there, that is, whatever suited his interests. The impression he leaves, however, is greater than the fact. Does this really matter? No. The end product is what counts.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> PS Good to hear from you. Hope all goes well.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:09 PM, Charles Sligh <cls9k at virginia.edu <mailto:cls9k at virginia.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bruce asks:
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, when he refers to ?[Durrell?s] re-reading of Spengler,? does he know if Durrell read all of Spengler?s two volume Decline of the West (M?nchen 1918; New York 1926)??which is massive, about 1000 pages?or did he crib it from some other abbreviated source?
>>>
>>> Richard responds:
>>>
>>> Spengler: as far as I know, LD read the 2-vol edition quite early.
>>>
>>> Absolutely--very early.
>>>
>>> From Ian MacNiven's bibliographical description of the Lawrence Durrell collection, Morris Library:
>>>
>>> MacNiven observes that LD's reading notes from a Prospero's Cell working notebook ("A.5" / dated 1938) show LD as "reading Spengler's Decline of the West [with page numbers referring to the A. A. Knopf, 1928 edition]."
>>>
>>> Good luck to all!
>>>
>>> C&c.
>>>
>>> *****************************************
>>> Charles L. Sligh
>>> charles.sligh at virginia.edu <mailto:charles.sligh at virginia.edu>
>>> Department of English
>>> University of Virginia
>>> *****************************************
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 00:05:00 +0300
> From: Richard Pine <pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Oswald Spengler
> Message-ID:
> <CAEVum0Kx7i4OXfPAX7TG_OsBwfyVFEW-Z_KSy5g6AdjUdpimGg at mail.gmail.com>
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>
> Bruce Redwine quotes from my "Mindscape". The full text of the book is now
> available on the new website of the Durrell Library of Corfu (
> www.durrelllibrarycorfu.org) where Bruce has recently posted an interesting
> query regarding LD's collected poems (on the Notes & Queries page).
> RP
>
> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard Pine and Charles Sligh agree that Durrell was reading in
>> translation Spengler?s *Decline of the West* at an early stage in his
>> career, maybe before Corfu (1935). The usual take on Spengler?s influence
>> is that it leads to a decadent view of European society, so Pine writes in
>> *Mindscape* (2005): the *?Decline of the West* underpinned much of the
>> thinking in *The Revolt?* (123). This is undoubtedly true. Spengler?s
>> influence, however, may be even deeper and extend to Durrell?s ?Heraldic
>> Universe.? Spengler was very much in the Germanic tradition, particularly
>> with respect to Goethe?s *Faust* and the conclusion to Part II, where the
>> chorus sings, ?Alles Verg?ngliche / Ist nur ein Gleichnis? (12104-05), that
>> is, ?Everything transitory / Is only a metaphor.? Spengler believes this,
>> and so does Durrell ? to wit, another ethereal reality underlies everyday
>> reality. Moreover, like Spengler, Durrell also delights in aphorisms and
>> obscurity (the latter being a German obsession). I?m not suggesting that
>> Durrell picked up some of his ideas and stylistics from Spengler (who also
>> picked up his ideas from his predecessors), rather that Durrell found a
>> friend in Spengler who mirrored his own instincts. This may help to
>> explain why the Germans seem more receptive to Durrell than his native
>> Englishmen.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the confirmation, Charles. So Durrell knew his Spengler in
>> translation, but I doubt he knew in depth other authors such as Paracelus
>> or the *Vulgate* which he inaccurately quotes. MacNiven has commented
>> that Durrell?s readings were wide and discursive and that he picked up bits
>> and pieces here and there, that is, whatever suited his interests. The
>> *impression* he leaves, however, is greater than the fact. Does this
>> really matter? No. The end product is what counts.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> PS Good to hear from you. Hope all goes well.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:09 PM, Charles Sligh <cls9k at virginia.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Bruce asks:
>>
>> Nevertheless, when he refers to ?[Durrell?s] re-reading of Spengler,? does
>> he know if Durrell read all of Spengler?s two volume Decline of the West
>> (M?nchen 1918; New York 1926)??which is massive, about 1000 pages?or did he
>> crib it from some other abbreviated source?
>>
>>
>> Richard responds:
>>
>> Spengler: as far as I know, LD read the 2-vol edition quite early.
>>
>>
>> Absolutely--*very* early.
>>
>> From Ian MacNiven's bibliographical description of the Lawrence Durrell
>> collection, Morris Library:
>>
>> MacNiven observes that LD's reading notes from a *Prospero's Cell* working
>> notebook ("A.5" / dated 1938) show LD as "reading Spengler's Decline of the
>> West [with page numbers referring to the A. A. Knopf, 1928 edition]."
>>
>>
>> Good luck to all!
>>
>> C&c.
>>
>> *****************************************
>> Charles L. Sligh
>> charles.sligh at virginia.edu
>> Department of English
>> University of Virginia
>> *****************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:55:19 -0700
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: Sumantra Nag <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [ilds] Durrell's Complete Poems
> Message-ID: <3E493629-7116-48BD-9025-1F2D88C8B7AE at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As everyone surely knows, Durrell?s poetry begs for an edition of his complete poems, 1931-1990. In 1980, Faber published James A. Brigham?s revised edition of the poetry from 1931-1974. Durrell continued to write poetry after 1974, much of it very good. I especially like the last poems in CVG?they glow with a sad and mysterious light. In 2006, Faber published Peter Porter?s edition of Durrell?s Selected Poems, a mere fragment of the corpus but containing an interesting introduction by a highly respected poet, who calls Durrell ?one of the best of the past hundred years.? For all that, I don?t think Porter fully understood or appreciated Durrell. A complete edition with annotations would also be most helpful (the kind that Ricks and McCue have recently done for T. S. Eliot) . But given Durrell?s fallen reputation, I doubt Faber would support such a massive undertaking.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jul 17, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Richard Pine <pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bruce Redwine quotes from my "Mindscape". The full text of the book is now available on the new website of the Durrell Library of Corfu (www.durrelllibrarycorfu.org <http://www.durrelllibrarycorfu.org/>) where Bruce has recently posted an interesting query regarding LD's collected poems (on the Notes & Queries page).
>> RP
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net <mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>> Richard Pine and Charles Sligh agree that Durrell was reading in translation Spengler?s Decline of the West at an early stage in his career, maybe before Corfu (1935). The usual take on Spengler?s influence is that it leads to a decadent view of European society, so Pine writes in Mindscape (2005): the ?Decline of the West underpinned much of the thinking in The Revolt? (123). This is undoubtedly true. Spengler?s influence, however, may be even deeper and extend to Durrell?s ?Heraldic Universe.? Spengler was very much in the Germanic tradition, particularly with respect to Goethe?s Faust and the conclusion to Part II, where the chorus sings, ?Alles Verg?ngliche / Ist nur ein Gleichnis? (12104-05), that is, ?Everything transitory / Is only a metaphor.? Spengler believes this, and so does Durrell ? to wit, another ethereal reality underlies everyday reality. Moreover, like Spengler, Durrell also delights in aphorisms and obscurity (the latter being a German obsession)!
> . I?m not suggesting that Durrell picked up some of his ideas and stylistics from Spengler (who also picked up his ideas from his predecessors), rather that Durrell found a friend in Spengler who mirrored his own instincts. This may help to explain why the Germans seem more receptive to Durrell than his native Englishmen.
>>
>> Bruce
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 11:42:42 -0700
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell's Complete Poems
> Message-ID: <8fa27f70-0c4a-10b7-e682-92b1ec70cb08 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Jay Brigham retired near to where my parents live (just across the river
> from me now), so I had a chance to talk with him about his work. His
> labour collecting all the variants of the poems and working with Durrell
> to finalize them was extensive, so any project would really be adding to
> rather than remaking his edition -- Durrell oversaw the final
> inclusions, exclusions, and last revisions to that edition.
>
> That said, convincing Faber to redo an edition they don't really keep in
> print reliably and containing poems already available in their other
> Durrell publications (CVG) might be a hard pitch.
>
> Personally, I'd like to see a variorum of the poetry, which would be an
> even bigger undertaking. It's not as big a task as Marianne Moore, but
> it's significant, and some of the variant publications of the poems are
> almost entirely different works.
>
> The new Eliot editions through JHUP really are a massive project,
> thankfully available in digital editions through Project Muse, and
> unsurprisingly published just as Eliot's works entered the public domain
> in several countries...
>
> All best,
> James
>
>> On 2016-07-18 10:55 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> As everyone surely knows, Durrell?s poetry begs for an edition of his
>> complete poems, 1931-1990. In 1980, Faber published James A. Brigham?s
>> revised edition of the poetry from 1931-1974. Durrell continued to
>> write poetry after 1974, much of it very good. I especially like the
>> last poems in /CVG?/they glow with a sad and mysterious light. In 2006,
>> Faber published Peter Porter?s edition of Durrell?s /Selected Poems,/ a
>> mere fragment of the corpus but containing an interesting introduction
>> by a highly respected poet, who calls Durrell ?one of the best of the
>> past hundred years.? For all that, I don?t think Porter fully
>> understood or appreciated Durrell. A complete edition with annotations
>> would also be most helpful (the kind that Ricks and McCue have recently
>> done for T. S. Eliot) . But given Durrell?s fallen reputation, I doubt
>> Faber would support such a massive undertaking.
>>
>> Bruce
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 11:50:02 -0700
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell's Complete Poems
> Message-ID: <3c4240f7-d0d0-91d8-7c2e-8ef6b765d5f3 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I should have added, we can hope that Isabelle Keller-Privat's excellent
> work on Durrell's poetry will provoke some fresh critical discussions!
>
> Keller-Privat, Isabelle. /?Between the lines?: l??criture du d?chirement
> dans la po?sie de Lawrence Durrell/. Paris: Presses Universitaires de
> Paris Ouest, 2015.
>
> http://presses.u-paris10.fr/?p=2441
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
>> On 2016-07-18 10:55 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> As everyone surely knows, Durrell?s poetry begs for an edition of his
>> complete poems, 1931-1990. In 1980, Faber published James A. Brigham?s
>> revised edition of the poetry from 1931-1974. Durrell continued to
>> write poetry after 1974, much of it very good. I especially like the
>> last poems in /CVG?/they glow with a sad and mysterious light. In 2006,
>> Faber published Peter Porter?s edition of Durrell?s /Selected Poems,/ a
>> mere fragment of the corpus but containing an interesting introduction
>> by a highly respected poet, who calls Durrell ?one of the best of the
>> past hundred years.? For all that, I don?t think Porter fully
>> understood or appreciated Durrell. A complete edition with annotations
>> would also be most helpful (the kind that Ricks and McCue have recently
>> done for T. S. Eliot) . But given Durrell?s fallen reputation, I doubt
>> Faber would support such a massive undertaking.
>>
>> Bruce
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 11:52:43 -0700
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Oswald Spengler
> Message-ID: <7605129e-00ed-96d1-b6e1-8ea6ed435345 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> There are a few helpful articles on Durrell and Spengler:
>
> Christensen, Peter G. ?The Hazards of Intellectual Burglary in Lawrence
> Durrell?s The Revolt of Aphrodite.? Studies in the Literary Imagination
> 24.1 (1991): 41?56.
>
> Clawson, James M. ?Between Physics and Metaphysics: Spenglerian
> Bergsonism in Durrell?s Revolt of Aphrodite.? Mosaic: A Journal for the
> Interdisciplinary Study of Literature 43.4 (December 2010): 123?39.
>
> Dickson, Gregory. ?Spengler?s Theory of Architecture in Durrell?s Tunc
> and Nunquam.? Deus Loci: The Lawrence Durrell Quarterly 5.1 (1981): 272?80.
>
> Morrison, James Raymond. ?Memory and Light in Lawrence Durrell?s The
> Revolt of Aphrodite.? Labrys 5 (1979): 141?53.
>
> Clawson also discusses Spengler extensively in his just-released
> /Durrell Re-read/ through FDU Press. I'm re-reading the book right now,
> and it's excellent.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
>
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>
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