From chamberlinkw at gmail.com  Mon May 30 12:00:18 2016
From: chamberlinkw at gmail.com (Brewster Chamberlin)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 15:00:18 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Faits divers
Message-ID: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>

It is May 6, 2016. Nicolas Sarkozy, former French president, on the
campaign trail to be re-elected to that position, husband of singer-actress
Carla Bruni, sits in a comfortable seat on an airplane returning to France
from a visit to Argentina. What is he reading? *Quatuor d'Alexandrie* by
Lawrence Durrell (that is, a translation of LD's work, which isn't the same
thing as reading LD).
Brewster
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From pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com  Mon May 30 14:01:56 2016
From: pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 00:01:56 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Faits divers
In-Reply-To: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEVum0JvM9Rwa0=7szejJmFaczt1ejhZBNXrL0FnxmJ=-Zp3ZA@mail.gmail.com>

are you sure? Evidence? I will put it in the new website if I can get a pic

On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Brewster Chamberlin <
chamberlinkw at gmail.com> wrote:

> It is May 6, 2016. Nicolas Sarkozy, former French president, on the
> campaign trail to be re-elected to that position, husband of singer-actress
> Carla Bruni, sits in a comfortable seat on an airplane returning to France
> from a visit to Argentina. What is he reading? *Quatuor d'Alexandrie* by
> Lawrence Durrell (that is, a translation of LD's work, which isn't the same
> thing as reading LD).
> Brewster
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Tue May 31 00:43:10 2016
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 09:43:10 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Faits divers
In-Reply-To: <CAEVum0JvM9Rwa0=7szejJmFaczt1ejhZBNXrL0FnxmJ=-Zp3ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEVum0JvM9Rwa0=7szejJmFaczt1ejhZBNXrL0FnxmJ=-Zp3ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ABC447AA-C68C-444A-A925-0DF3EFA42737@marcpiel.fr>

What media was this in?

LD once said that his books were better in French because his translators wrote better than him!

Envoy? de mon iPad

Le 30 mai 2016 ? 23:01, Richard Pine <pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com> a ?crit :

are you sure? Evidence? I will put it in the new website if I can get a pic

> On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Brewster Chamberlin <chamberlinkw at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is May 6, 2016. Nicolas Sarkozy, former French president, on the campaign trail to be re-elected to that position, husband of singer-actress Carla Bruni, sits in a comfortable seat on an airplane returning to France from a visit to Argentina. What is he reading? Quatuor d'Alexandrie by Lawrence Durrell (that is, a translation of LD's work, which isn't the same thing as reading LD).
> Brewster
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Tue May 31 02:10:53 2016
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 11:10:53 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Faits divers
In-Reply-To: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <574D551D.2060507@marcpiel.fr>

can someone please tell me what media this was?

Le 30/05/16 21:00, Brewster Chamberlin a ?crit :
> It is May 6, 2016. Nicolas Sarkozy, former 
> French president, on the campaign trail to be 
> re-elected to that position, husband of 
> singer-actress Carla Bruni, sits in a 
> comfortable seat on an airplane returning to 
> France from a visit to Argentina. What is he 
> reading? /Quatuor d'Alexandrie/ by Lawrence 
> Durrell (that is, a translation of LD's work, 
> which isn't the same thing as reading LD).
> Brewster
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From cls9k at virginia.edu  Tue May 31 06:11:54 2016
From: cls9k at virginia.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 09:11:54 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Faits divers
In-Reply-To: <ABC447AA-C68C-444A-A925-0DF3EFA42737@marcpiel.fr>
References: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEVum0JvM9Rwa0=7szejJmFaczt1ejhZBNXrL0FnxmJ=-Zp3ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABC447AA-C68C-444A-A925-0DF3EFA42737@marcpiel.fr>
Message-ID: <CAK91hANZF979n_hC8quuZLn4byU+35TD104ueNc_T9QvAqxh3g@mail.gmail.com>

Nicolas Sarkozy lit le ? Quatuor d?Alexandrie ?, de Lawrence Durrell, ?
bord de l?avion du retour, vendredi 6 mai.

Nicolas Sarkozy sur ses rivaux: "Ils ont raison d'avoir peur"
<http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/Politique/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Ils-ont-raison-d-avoir-peur-car-je-ne-suis-pas-mort-965503>
Paris Match | Publi? le 11/05/2016 ? 14h00 |Mis ? jour le 11/05/2016 ? 14h13

*****************************************
Charles L. Sligh
charles.sligh at virginia.edu
Department of English
University of Virginia
*****************************************


On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 3:43 AM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:

> What media was this in?
>
> LD once said that his books were better in French because his translators
> wrote better than him!
>
> Envoy? de mon iPad
>
> Le 30 mai 2016 ? 23:01, Richard Pine <pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com> a
> ?crit :
>
> are you sure? Evidence? I will put it in the new website if I can get a pic
>
> On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Brewster Chamberlin <
> chamberlinkw at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It is May 6, 2016. Nicolas Sarkozy, former French president, on the
>> campaign trail to be re-elected to that position, husband of singer-actress
>> Carla Bruni, sits in a comfortable seat on an airplane returning to France
>> from a visit to Argentina. What is he reading? *Quatuor d'Alexandrie* by
>> Lawrence Durrell (that is, a translation of LD's work, which isn't the same
>> thing as reading LD).
>> Brewster
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Tue May 31 16:29:52 2016
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 01:29:52 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Faits divers
In-Reply-To: <CAK91hANZF979n_hC8quuZLn4byU+35TD104ueNc_T9QvAqxh3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHKkAp=JCqjZYeYGiLxufnN3u+pmG9+zdhfSPBm88a+VJMrEuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEVum0JvM9Rwa0=7szejJmFaczt1ejhZBNXrL0FnxmJ=-Zp3ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABC447AA-C68C-444A-A925-0DF3EFA42737@marcpiel.fr>
	<CAK91hANZF979n_hC8quuZLn4byU+35TD104ueNc_T9QvAqxh3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <574E1E70.3090003@marcpiel.fr>

he might as well have being reading Winny the Poo!!!

Le 31/05/16 15:11, Charles Sligh a ?crit :
> Nicolas Sarkozy lit le ??Quatuor d?Alexandrie??, 
> de Lawrence Durrell, ? bord de l?avion du 
> retour, vendredi 6 mai.
>
> Nicolas Sarkozy sur ses rivaux: "Ils ont raison 
> d'avoir peur" 
> <http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/Politique/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Ils-ont-raison-d-avoir-peur-car-je-ne-suis-pas-mort-965503>
> Paris Match | Publi? le 11/05/2016 ? 14h00 |Mis 
> ? jour le 11/05/2016 ? 14h13
>
> *****************************************
> Charles L. Sligh
> charles.sligh at virginia.edu 
> <mailto:charles.sligh at virginia.edu>
> Department of English
> University of Virginia
> *****************************************
>
>
> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 3:43 AM, Marc Piel 
> <marc at marcpiel.fr <mailto:marc at marcpiel.fr>> wrote:
>
>     What media was this in?
>
>     LD once said that his books were better in
>     French because his translators wrote better
>     than him!
>
>     Envoy? de mon iPad
>
>     Le 30 mai 2016 ? 23:01, Richard Pine
>     <pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com
>     <mailto:pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com>> a ?crit :
>
>     are you sure? Evidence? I will put it in the
>     new website if I can get a pic
>
>     On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Brewster
>     Chamberlin <chamberlinkw at gmail.com
>     <mailto:chamberlinkw at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         It is May 6, 2016. Nicolas Sarkozy,
>         former French president, on the campaign
>         trail to be re-elected to that position,
>         husband of singer-actress Carla Bruni,
>         sits in a comfortable seat on an
>         airplane returning to France from a
>         visit to Argentina. What is he reading?
>         /Quatuor d'Alexandrie/ by Lawrence
>         Durrell (that is, a translation of LD's
>         work, which isn't the same thing as
>         reading LD).
>         Brewster
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         ILDS mailing list
>         ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>         <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>         https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     ILDS mailing list
>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     ILDS mailing list
>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 18:31:54 2016
From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 18:31:54 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Nunquam
Message-ID: <CANDhJnSTHsHqRvgn1r3UoDFwg48ab3ROwM5DqmFpYgwDBKYy_w@mail.gmail.com>

Following the dramatic ending of Tunc (no spoilers) Felix wakes up in the
Paulhaus, the firm?s own psyche ward in the Alps. Only 10 pages in and I
have already Googled:

Javel
Pelmanism
Konx Ompax [really striking, ahead-of-its-time cover design by Aleister
Crowley!] and
Avain ? Finnish for key/code/clef

Since when did Durrell know Finnish? Or was that a typo for Avian? Hakkaa
p??lle!

- Ken

P.S. Question for Marc: in the French translations, how do they handle
Durrell?s French quotes in the originals? Do they set them off in some way?
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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Thu Jun  2 02:05:16 2016
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:05:16 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Nunquam
In-Reply-To: <CANDhJnSTHsHqRvgn1r3UoDFwg48ab3ROwM5DqmFpYgwDBKYy_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANDhJnSTHsHqRvgn1r3UoDFwg48ab3ROwM5DqmFpYgwDBKYy_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06BF8649-0E0A-43DB-8AE6-E2256915C50E@marcpiel.fr>

Hi Ken,
You have caught me out; I have always read LD in English. l only have one book "Justine" in French (livre de poche edition) where original French is set in italics. I am lucky to have 2 languages, so use them completely ; I would never dream of reading Lawrence, Hemingway or Greene in French translation.
B. R.
Marc

Envoy? de mon iPad

Le 2 juin 2016 ? 03:31, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> a ?crit :

Following the dramatic ending of Tunc (no spoilers) Felix wakes up in the Paulhaus, the firm?s own psyche ward in the Alps. Only 10 pages in and I have already Googled:

Javel
Pelmanism
Konx Ompax [really striking, ahead-of-its-time cover design by Aleister Crowley!] and
Avain ? Finnish for key/code/clef

Since when did Durrell know Finnish? Or was that a typo for Avian? Hakkaa p??lle!

- Ken

P.S. Question for Marc: in the French translations, how do they handle Durrell?s French quotes in the originals? Do they set them off in some way?

_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

Envoy? de mon iPad

Le 2 juin 2016 ? 03:31, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> a ?crit :

Following the dramatic ending of Tunc (no spoilers) Felix wakes up in the Paulhaus, the firm?s own psyche ward in the Alps. Only 10 pages in and I have already Googled:

Javel
Pelmanism
Konx Ompax [really striking, ahead-of-its-time cover design by Aleister Crowley!] and
Avain ? Finnish for key/code/clef

Since when did Durrell know Finnish? Or was that a typo for Avian? Hakkaa p??lle!

- Ken

P.S. Question for Marc: in the French translations, how do they handle Durrell?s French quotes in the originals? Do they set them off in some way?

_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 10:51:50 2016
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:51:50 -0700
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
Message-ID: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>

Hello all,

This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of 
interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique 
likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:

  http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/

The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an 
invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually 
the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're 
not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a 
superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same 
time missing the point...

All best,
James

From billyapt at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 13:36:11 2016
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 15:36:11 -0500
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>

James: 

Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas. 

Cheers, Billy

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
> 
> http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
> 
> The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
> 
> All best,
> James
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 14:26:03 2016
From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 14:26:03 -0700
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character
assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy
it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the
same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for
sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in
trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly
in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him,
and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when
his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be
hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving,
tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I
couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him
cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I
have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched
the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges
of Hieronymus Bosch_.

Thanks - Ken


On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:

> James:
>
> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to
> dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his
> books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much
> to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began
> to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their
> real and fictional personas.
>
> Cheers, Billy
>
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
>
> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of
> interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely
> parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
> >
> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
> >
> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an
> invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the
> same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not
> supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial
> reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the
> point...
> >
> > All best,
> > James
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jun  3 14:29:57 2016
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 07:29:57 +1000
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80855930-7382-467C-97AE-44098D758246@bigpond.net.au>

Billy, I would most writers, including our friend Larry, present edited versions of themselves even when being autobiographical. The question is the extent. As you say, Miller did not care much. Bukowski famously said his fiction and poetry were 95% reality and 5% improvement. Wonder where Larry would be on such a scale? Something to discuss over several bottles at OMG - except I am unable to attend this time round, but have a round for me anyway.

David Whitewine.

Sent from my iPad

> On 4 Jun 2016, at 6:36 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> James: 
> 
> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas. 
> 
> Cheers, Billy
> 
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>> 
>> http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
>> 
>> The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>> 
>> All best,
>> James
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jun  3 15:07:41 2016
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 08:07:41 +1000
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2B0C2BF3-796D-4689-B945-FFBD54E2EF7B@bigpond.net.au>

YouTube has some great stuff on Henry Miller. Here the man talk. He is brilliant.
The Henry Miller Odyssey may serve as an antidote to the Campbell article.

David 
Sent from my iPad

> On 4 Jun 2016, at 3:51 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
> 
> http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
> 
> The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
> 
> All best,
> James
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From billyapt at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 15:14:51 2016
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 17:14:51 -0500
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>

Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
> 
> Thanks - Ken
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> James:
>> 
>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>> 
>> Cheers, Billy
>> 
>> WILLIAM APT
>> Attorney at Law
>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>> Austin TX 78701
>> 512/708-8300
>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>> 
>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>> >
>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
>> >
>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>> >
>> > All best,
>> > James
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > ILDS mailing list
>> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri Jun  3 16:39:02 2016
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 16:39:02 -0700
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2909213D-BE91-469D-AE84-437019ED4D61@earthlink.net>

I?ll have to add a dissenting voice about Henry Miller.  James is right to point out that Campbell?s review is contradictory, but 
Campbell?s criticism of the man?s tremendous egotism is well taken.  He?s not as Coleridge said of Wordsworth, an example of the ?egotistical sublime,? more like the egotistical wretched.  His sexism, racism, and anti-Semitism were not unusual during his era (Pound and Eliot no doubt approved of the latter), but they don?t wear well today.  I really don?t buy that Miller?s writings can be justified as a writer playing with various personae.  Miller as writer is what you see is what you get.  My opinion, of course.

Bruce 


> On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:14 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 
> 
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> 
> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com <mailto:gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
>> 
>> Thanks - Ken
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> James:
>> 
>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>> 
>> Cheers, Billy
>> 
>> WILLIAM APT
>> Attorney at Law
>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>> Austin TX 78701
>> 512/708-8300 <tel:512%2F708-8300>
>> 512/708-8011 <tel:512%2F708-8011> FAX
>> 
>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com <mailto:james.d.gifford at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>> >
>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/ <http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/>
>> >
>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>> >
>> > All best,
>> > James
>> >
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From billyapt at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 02:35:28 2016
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:35:28 +0100
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <2909213D-BE91-469D-AE84-437019ED4D61@earthlink.net>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
	<2909213D-BE91-469D-AE84-437019ED4D61@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7A7D3BFC-0D9F-42C4-A119-63B5FEBEEBE0@gmail.com>

I don't know what to make of Miller's anti-semitism: he loved Nietzsche, who admired the Jews,  and his best friends and some of the artists he most admired were Jews: Rattner, Perles, Brassai, Soutine, Zadkine. (Singer, too, though not, I believe, a friend.) As far as his racism, in one of his last - and in my opinion best - works, Mother, he has his mother express how she wishes, if I am not mistaken, she could be reincarnated as a black person to because they are so joyous. 

And the there is LD who made anti-Semitic remarks in Pied Piper, only to wind up marrying not one but two Jewish women.

My only conclusion is that Miller and Durrell were products of their times when such comments about "the Other" were more commonplace, but were not anti-Semites. Much in the same way that, when I was a youngster in Texas, many white people who referred to black people as "niggers" and to Hispanics as "spics" and "greasers" would be appalled at the thought today. 

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On Jun 3, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> I?ll have to add a dissenting voice about Henry Miller.  James is right to point out that Campbell?s review is contradictory, but 
> Campbell?s criticism of the man?s tremendous egotism is well taken.  He?s not as Coleridge said of Wordsworth, an example of the ?egotistical sublime,? more like the egotistical wretched.  His sexism, racism, and anti-Semitism were not unusual during his era (Pound and Eliot no doubt approved of the latter), but they don?t wear well today.  I really don?t buy that Miller?s writings can be justified as a writer playing with various personae.  Miller as writer is what you see is what you get.  My opinion, of course.
> 
> Bruce 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:14 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 
>> 
>> WILLIAM APT
>> Attorney at Law
>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>> Austin TX 78701
>> 512/708-8300
>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
>>> 
>>> Thanks - Ken
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> James:
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers, Billy
>>>> 
>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>> 
>>>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello all,
>>>> >
>>>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
>>>> >
>>>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>>>> >
>>>> > All best,
>>>> > James
>>>> >
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sat Jun  4 07:17:21 2016
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 07:17:21 -0700
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <7A7D3BFC-0D9F-42C4-A119-63B5FEBEEBE0@gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
	<2909213D-BE91-469D-AE84-437019ED4D61@earthlink.net>
	<7A7D3BFC-0D9F-42C4-A119-63B5FEBEEBE0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77F89249-0B49-49BF-B11B-3CFF3F652CE6@earthlink.net>

Many people don?t know what to make of Henry Miller.  I certainly don?t.  He?s essentially an anarchist and rebel, someone like Arthur Rimbaud who became a sensation in France and then disappeared into remote Abyssinia.  So we have Miller?s Time of the Assassins.  (Except that Miller?s ego was too big to allow him to disappear anywhere.)  In American letters he might follow in the footsteps of Walt Whitman and his ?song of myself.?  Both writers have tremendous self-regard.  Whitman, however, during his country?s greatest crisis, the Civil War, went to work as a nurse caring for the Union wounded.   Those conditions were worse than anything Miller wrote about.  Whitman also bemoaned the death of Lincoln.  Can you imagine Miller ever doing anything similar?  No.  Miller would run away from any call to arms and fantasize about living as a Taoist in the mountains of China.  There?s something deeply anti-social about him.  There?s that.  And there?s also his great generosity on a personal level, as pointed out below.  He was full of contradictions.

Bruce



> On Jun 4, 2016, at 2:35 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know what to make of Miller's anti-semitism: he loved Nietzsche, who admired the Jews,  and his best friends and some of the artists he most admired were Jews: Rattner, Perles, Brassai, Soutine, Zadkine. (Singer, too, though not, I believe, a friend.) As far as his racism, in one of his last - and in my opinion best - works, Mother, he has his mother express how she wishes, if I am not mistaken, she could be reincarnated as a black person to because they are so joyous. 
> 
> And the there is LD who made anti-Semitic remarks in Pied Piper, only to wind up marrying not one but two Jewish women.
> 
> My only conclusion is that Miller and Durrell were products of their times when such comments about "the Other" were more commonplace, but were not anti-Semites. Much in the same way that, when I was a youngster in Texas, many white people who referred to black people as "niggers" and to Hispanics as "spics" and "greasers" would be appalled at the thought today. 
> 
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> 
> On Jun 3, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net <mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
> 
>> I?ll have to add a dissenting voice about Henry Miller.  James is right to point out that Campbell?s review is contradictory, but 
>> Campbell?s criticism of the man?s tremendous egotism is well taken.  He?s not as Coleridge said of Wordsworth, an example of the ?egotistical sublime,? more like the egotistical wretched.  His sexism, racism, and anti-Semitism were not unusual during his era (Pound and Eliot no doubt approved of the latter), but they don?t wear well today.  I really don?t buy that Miller?s writings can be justified as a writer playing with various personae.  Miller as writer is what you see is what you get.  My opinion, of course.
>> 
>> Bruce 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:14 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 
>>> 
>>> WILLIAM APT
>>> Attorney at Law
>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>> Austin TX 78701
>>> 512/708-8300
>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com <mailto:gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks - Ken
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> James:
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers, Billy
>>>> 
>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>> 512/708-8300 <tel:512%2F708-8300>
>>>> 512/708-8011 <tel:512%2F708-8011> FAX
>>>> 
>>>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com <mailto:james.d.gifford at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello all,
>>>> >
>>>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/ <http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/>
>>>> >
>>>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>>>> >
>>>> > All best,
>>>> > James
>>>> >

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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Sat Jun  4 13:56:56 2016
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 06:56:56 +1000
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <77F89249-0B49-49BF-B11B-3CFF3F652CE6@earthlink.net>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
	<2909213D-BE91-469D-AE84-437019ED4D61@earthlink.net>
	<7A7D3BFC-0D9F-42C4-A119-63B5FEBEEBE0@gmail.com>
	<77F89249-0B49-49BF-B11B-3CFF3F652CE6@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E3E84C2A-9DB2-414C-8EEF-19E3E2795F09@bigpond.net.au>

Interesting. When I interviewed Ian MacNiven in 2012 for the ABC, he invoked Walt Whitman's Song of Myself in relation to Henry Miller, that Miller, the man and writer was all about Miller. He also said Miller fled Europe in 1940 in a sort of rabbity panic and contrasted this with Durrell's desire to join the airforce and fight for Greece. Durrell of course fled too in the end. Joanna Hines said hat compared to Durrell, who carefully edited himself, Miller 'shot from the hip' and did care all that much what people thought of him. But to hear Miller speak about and write about art and life is a wonderful and rewarding experience. Self absorbed yes, but giving of himself also. Air conditioned Nightmare is a great book about modern America. Durrell had, I believe, a framed photo of Miller on his writing desk in Sommieres and, while Larry never got as down and dirty as Miller, the influence is clearly there, probably, as Haag asserts, the biggest influence on his life.

David Whitewine

Sent from my iPad

> On 5 Jun 2016, at 12:17 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Many people don?t know what to make of Henry Miller.  I certainly don?t.  He?s essentially an anarchist and rebel, someone like Arthur Rimbaud who became a sensation in France and then disappeared into remote Abyssinia.  So we have Miller?s Time of the Assassins.  (Except that Miller?s ego was too big to allow him to disappear anywhere.)  In American letters he might follow in the footsteps of Walt Whitman and his ?song of myself.?  Both writers have tremendous self-regard.  Whitman, however, during his country?s greatest crisis, the Civil War, went to work as a nurse caring for the Union wounded.   Those conditions were worse than anything Miller wrote about.  Whitman also bemoaned the death of Lincoln.  Can you imagine Miller ever doing anything similar?  No.  Miller would run away from any call to arms and fantasize about living as a Taoist in the mountains of China.  There?s something deeply anti-social about him.  There?s that.  And there?s also his great generosity on a personal level, as pointed out below.  He was full of contradictions.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2016, at 2:35 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know what to make of Miller's anti-semitism: he loved Nietzsche, who admired the Jews,  and his best friends and some of the artists he most admired were Jews: Rattner, Perles, Brassai, Soutine, Zadkine. (Singer, too, though not, I believe, a friend.) As far as his racism, in one of his last - and in my opinion best - works, Mother, he has his mother express how she wishes, if I am not mistaken, she could be reincarnated as a black person to because they are so joyous. 
>> 
>> And the there is LD who made anti-Semitic remarks in Pied Piper, only to wind up marrying not one but two Jewish women.
>> 
>> My only conclusion is that Miller and Durrell were products of their times when such comments about "the Other" were more commonplace, but were not anti-Semites. Much in the same way that, when I was a youngster in Texas, many white people who referred to black people as "niggers" and to Hispanics as "spics" and "greasers" would be appalled at the thought today. 
>> 
>> WILLIAM APT
>> Attorney at Law
>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>> Austin TX 78701
>> 512/708-8300
>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?ll have to add a dissenting voice about Henry Miller.  James is right to point out that Campbell?s review is contradictory, but 
>>> Campbell?s criticism of the man?s tremendous egotism is well taken.  He?s not as Coleridge said of Wordsworth, an example of the ?egotistical sublime,? more like the egotistical wretched.  His sexism, racism, and anti-Semitism were not unusual during his era (Pound and Eliot no doubt approved of the latter), but they don?t wear well today.  I really don?t buy that Miller?s writings can be justified as a writer playing with various personae.  Miller as writer is what you see is what you get.  My opinion, of course.
>>> 
>>> Bruce 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:14 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 
>>>> 
>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks - Ken
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> James:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers, Billy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Hello all,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > All best,
>>>>>> > James
>>>>>> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From billyapt at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 14:42:44 2016
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 00:42:44 +0300
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <E3E84C2A-9DB2-414C-8EEF-19E3E2795F09@bigpond.net.au>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
	<2909213D-BE91-469D-AE84-437019ED4D61@earthlink.net>
	<7A7D3BFC-0D9F-42C4-A119-63B5FEBEEBE0@gmail.com>
	<77F89249-0B49-49BF-B11B-3CFF3F652CE6@earthlink.net>
	<E3E84C2A-9DB2-414C-8EEF-19E3E2795F09@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <66C4605F-90EB-4771-9D79-E011D0FA67EE@gmail.com>

That's a tough one, David: on one hand you have guys like Fermor, John Pendlebury and Billy Moss who took great risks with their lives out of a sense of duty, you have guys like LD and Robin Fedden who did their part out of sense of duty, and then you have guys like Miller and Picasso who did nothing and possessed no sense of obligation except to themselves.

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On Jun 4, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> 
> Interesting. When I interviewed Ian MacNiven in 2012 for the ABC, he invoked Walt Whitman's Song of Myself in relation to Henry Miller, that Miller, the man and writer was all about Miller. He also said Miller fled Europe in 1940 in a sort of rabbity panic and contrasted this with Durrell's desire to join the airforce and fight for Greece. Durrell of course fled too in the end. Joanna Hines said hat compared to Durrell, who carefully edited himself, Miller 'shot from the hip' and did care all that much what people thought of him. But to hear Miller speak about and write about art and life is a wonderful and rewarding experience. Self absorbed yes, but giving of himself also. Air conditioned Nightmare is a great book about modern America. Durrell had, I believe, a framed photo of Miller on his writing desk in Sommieres and, while Larry never got as down and dirty as Miller, the influence is clearly there, probably, as Haag asserts, the biggest influence on his life.
> 
> David Whitewine
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 5 Jun 2016, at 12:17 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Many people don?t know what to make of Henry Miller.  I certainly don?t.  He?s essentially an anarchist and rebel, someone like Arthur Rimbaud who became a sensation in France and then disappeared into remote Abyssinia.  So we have Miller?s Time of the Assassins.  (Except that Miller?s ego was too big to allow him to disappear anywhere.)  In American letters he might follow in the footsteps of Walt Whitman and his ?song of myself.?  Both writers have tremendous self-regard.  Whitman, however, during his country?s greatest crisis, the Civil War, went to work as a nurse caring for the Union wounded.   Those conditions were worse than anything Miller wrote about.  Whitman also bemoaned the death of Lincoln.  Can you imagine Miller ever doing anything similar?  No.  Miller would run away from any call to arms and fantasize about living as a Taoist in the mountains of China.  There?s something deeply anti-social about him.  There?s that.  And there?s also his great generosity on a personal level, as pointed out below.  He was full of contradictions.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2016, at 2:35 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't know what to make of Miller's anti-semitism: he loved Nietzsche, who admired the Jews,  and his best friends and some of the artists he most admired were Jews: Rattner, Perles, Brassai, Soutine, Zadkine. (Singer, too, though not, I believe, a friend.) As far as his racism, in one of his last - and in my opinion best - works, Mother, he has his mother express how she wishes, if I am not mistaken, she could be reincarnated as a black person to because they are so joyous. 
>>> 
>>> And the there is LD who made anti-Semitic remarks in Pied Piper, only to wind up marrying not one but two Jewish women.
>>> 
>>> My only conclusion is that Miller and Durrell were products of their times when such comments about "the Other" were more commonplace, but were not anti-Semites. Much in the same way that, when I was a youngster in Texas, many white people who referred to black people as "niggers" and to Hispanics as "spics" and "greasers" would be appalled at the thought today. 
>>> 
>>> WILLIAM APT
>>> Attorney at Law
>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>> Austin TX 78701
>>> 512/708-8300
>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?ll have to add a dissenting voice about Henry Miller.  James is right to point out that Campbell?s review is contradictory, but 
>>>> Campbell?s criticism of the man?s tremendous egotism is well taken.  He?s not as Coleridge said of Wordsworth, an example of the ?egotistical sublime,? more like the egotistical wretched.  His sexism, racism, and anti-Semitism were not unusual during his era (Pound and Eliot no doubt approved of the latter), but they don?t wear well today.  I really don?t buy that Miller?s writings can be justified as a writer playing with various personae.  Miller as writer is what you see is what you get.  My opinion, of course.
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:14 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 
>>>>> 
>>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks - Ken
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> James:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers, Billy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Hello all,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > All best,
>>>>>>> > James
>>>>>>> >
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sat Jun  4 14:52:35 2016
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 14:52:35 -0700
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <E3E84C2A-9DB2-414C-8EEF-19E3E2795F09@bigpond.net.au>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
	<2909213D-BE91-469D-AE84-437019ED4D61@earthlink.net>
	<7A7D3BFC-0D9F-42C4-A119-63B5FEBEEBE0@gmail.com>
	<77F89249-0B49-49BF-B11B-3CFF3F652CE6@earthlink.net>
	<E3E84C2A-9DB2-414C-8EEF-19E3E2795F09@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <5B466833-866D-4BBB-B523-40E3D911B22B@earthlink.net>

David,

I guess, if you want to be nasty, you could call Miller a coward and a draft-dodger, when it came to taking a stand on World War II.  I won?t go that far (he was much too old, after all, to be drafted), but he did, as MacNiven seems to suggest, turn tail and run.  Durrell didn?t do that, nor did others like Samuel Beckett.  I believe Durrell tried to join the British forces but was rejected for some reason.  The flight to Egypt with his family was not cowardice.  He was a patriot.  I?m highly suspicious of Miller and his politics, but, as you say, he wrote a lot of good stuff about ?art and life.?  The first part of the Big Sur book is tremendous, that is, in a kooky kind of way.  The second part is simply crazy, Milleresque crazy.

Bruce





> On Jun 4, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> 
> Interesting. When I interviewed Ian MacNiven in 2012 for the ABC, he invoked Walt Whitman's Song of Myself in relation to Henry Miller, that Miller, the man and writer was all about Miller. He also said Miller fled Europe in 1940 in a sort of rabbity panic and contrasted this with Durrell's desire to join the airforce and fight for Greece. Durrell of course fled too in the end. Joanna Hines said hat compared to Durrell, who carefully edited himself, Miller 'shot from the hip' and did care all that much what people thought of him. But to hear Miller speak about and write about art and life is a wonderful and rewarding experience. Self absorbed yes, but giving of himself also. Air conditioned Nightmare is a great book about modern America. Durrell had, I believe, a framed photo of Miller on his writing desk in Sommieres and, while Larry never got as down and dirty as Miller, the influence is clearly there, probably, as Haag asserts, the biggest influence on his life.
> 
> David Whitewine
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 5 Jun 2016, at 12:17 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net <mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
> 
>> Many people don?t know what to make of Henry Miller.  I certainly don?t.  He?s essentially an anarchist and rebel, someone like Arthur Rimbaud who became a sensation in France and then disappeared into remote Abyssinia.  So we have Miller?s Time of the Assassins.  (Except that Miller?s ego was too big to allow him to disappear anywhere.)  In American letters he might follow in the footsteps of Walt Whitman and his ?song of myself.?  Both writers have tremendous self-regard.  Whitman, however, during his country?s greatest crisis, the Civil War, went to work as a nurse caring for the Union wounded.   Those conditions were worse than anything Miller wrote about.  Whitman also bemoaned the death of Lincoln.  Can you imagine Miller ever doing anything similar?  No.  Miller would run away from any call to arms and fantasize about living as a Taoist in the mountains of China.  There?s something deeply anti-social about him.  There?s that.  And there?s also his great generosity on a personal level, as pointed out below.  He was full of contradictions.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2016, at 2:35 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't know what to make of Miller's anti-semitism: he loved Nietzsche, who admired the Jews,  and his best friends and some of the artists he most admired were Jews: Rattner, Perles, Brassai, Soutine, Zadkine. (Singer, too, though not, I believe, a friend.) As far as his racism, in one of his last - and in my opinion best - works, Mother, he has his mother express how she wishes, if I am not mistaken, she could be reincarnated as a black person to because they are so joyous. 
>>> 
>>> And the there is LD who made anti-Semitic remarks in Pied Piper, only to wind up marrying not one but two Jewish women.
>>> 
>>> My only conclusion is that Miller and Durrell were products of their times when such comments about "the Other" were more commonplace, but were not anti-Semites. Much in the same way that, when I was a youngster in Texas, many white people who referred to black people as "niggers" and to Hispanics as "spics" and "greasers" would be appalled at the thought today. 
>>> 
>>> WILLIAM APT
>>> Attorney at Law
>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>> Austin TX 78701
>>> 512/708-8300
>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net <mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I?ll have to add a dissenting voice about Henry Miller.  James is right to point out that Campbell?s review is contradictory, but 
>>>> Campbell?s criticism of the man?s tremendous egotism is well taken.  He?s not as Coleridge said of Wordsworth, an example of the ?egotistical sublime,? more like the egotistical wretched.  His sexism, racism, and anti-Semitism were not unusual during his era (Pound and Eliot no doubt approved of the latter), but they don?t wear well today.  I really don?t buy that Miller?s writings can be justified as a writer playing with various personae.  Miller as writer is what you see is what you get.  My opinion, of course.
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:14 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 
>>>>> 
>>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com <mailto:gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks - Ken
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> James:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers, Billy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>>>> 512/708-8300 <tel:512%2F708-8300>
>>>>>> 512/708-8011 <tel:512%2F708-8011> FAX
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com <mailto:james.d.gifford at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Hello all,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/ <http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > All best,
>>>>>> > James
>>>>>> >
>> 

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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Sat Jun  4 18:00:00 2016
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:00:00 +1000
Subject: [ilds] This time last year I was in The Midi checking out Durrell
	country. Here's the famous Vampire House,
	Durrell's home from 1967 - 1990.
Message-ID: <7FA94B74-B0C9-45C9-AD64-3AE9E59DC4A1@bigpond.net.au>



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Sent from my iPad

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sun Jun  5 11:05:58 2016
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:05:58 -0700
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
In-Reply-To: <66C4605F-90EB-4771-9D79-E011D0FA67EE@gmail.com>
References: <1569716d-6986-6589-5900-97791d9e74c5@gmail.com>
	<F427F028-ACA4-4B58-8F73-13158A2FB302@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnT2Ez-nOBJnTUW81UhPr4S86p3u2LXo1AMhkRKJiV=nfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAFBA90-4870-49BE-8702-DA1F9FD4D952@gmail.com>
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Billy Apt sums it up nicely.  Miller sailed out of Marseilles for America on 29 December 1939.  That was the time of the ?Phony War? (Sept. 1939-May 1940), after Britain and France had declared war on Germany and before the Fall of France in June of 1940.  Miller had lived in France for almost ten years.  In contrast, Samuel Beckett had lived there but a few years.  When the war broke out, Beckett joined the French Resistance.  After the war, the French government awarded him the Croix de Guerre, a fact which Beckett preferred not to talk about.  Was there anything about himself that Miller did not talked about?

Bruce


> On Jun 4, 2016, at 2:42 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That's a tough one, David: on one hand you have guys like Fermor, John Pendlebury and Billy Moss who took great risks with their lives out of a sense of duty, you have guys like LD and Robin Fedden who did their part out of sense of duty, and then you have guys like Miller and Picasso who did nothing and possessed no sense of obligation except to themselves.
> 
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> 
> On Jun 4, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
> 
>> Interesting. When I interviewed Ian MacNiven in 2012 for the ABC, he invoked Walt Whitman's Song of Myself in relation to Henry Miller, that Miller, the man and writer was all about Miller. He also said Miller fled Europe in 1940 in a sort of rabbity panic and contrasted this with Durrell's desire to join the airforce and fight for Greece. Durrell of course fled too in the end. Joanna Hines said hat compared to Durrell, who carefully edited himself, Miller 'shot from the hip' and did care all that much what people thought of him. But to hear Miller speak about and write about art and life is a wonderful and rewarding experience. Self absorbed yes, but giving of himself also. Air conditioned Nightmare is a great book about modern America. Durrell had, I believe, a framed photo of Miller on his writing desk in Sommieres and, while Larry never got as down and dirty as Miller, the influence is clearly there, probably, as Haag asserts, the biggest influence on his life.
>> 
>> David Whitewine
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 5 Jun 2016, at 12:17 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net <mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Many people don?t know what to make of Henry Miller.  I certainly don?t.  He?s essentially an anarchist and rebel, someone like Arthur Rimbaud who became a sensation in France and then disappeared into remote Abyssinia.  So we have Miller?s Time of the Assassins.  (Except that Miller?s ego was too big to allow him to disappear anywhere.)  In American letters he might follow in the footsteps of Walt Whitman and his ?song of myself.?  Both writers have tremendous self-regard.  Whitman, however, during his country?s greatest crisis, the Civil War, went to work as a nurse caring for the Union wounded.   Those conditions were worse than anything Miller wrote about.  Whitman also bemoaned the death of Lincoln.  Can you imagine Miller ever doing anything similar?  No.  Miller would run away from any call to arms and fantasize about living as a Taoist in the mountains of China.  There?s something deeply anti-social about him.  There?s that.  And there?s also his great generosity on a personal level, as pointed out below.  He was full of contradictions.
>>> 
>>> Bruce
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 4, 2016, at 2:35 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know what to make of Miller's anti-semitism: he loved Nietzsche, who admired the Jews,  and his best friends and some of the artists he most admired were Jews: Rattner, Perles, Brassai, Soutine, Zadkine. (Singer, too, though not, I believe, a friend.) As far as his racism, in one of his last - and in my opinion best - works, Mother, he has his mother express how she wishes, if I am not mistaken, she could be reincarnated as a black person to because they are so joyous. 
>>>> 
>>>> And the there is LD who made anti-Semitic remarks in Pied Piper, only to wind up marrying not one but two Jewish women.
>>>> 
>>>> My only conclusion is that Miller and Durrell were products of their times when such comments about "the Other" were more commonplace, but were not anti-Semites. Much in the same way that, when I was a youngster in Texas, many white people who referred to black people as "niggers" and to Hispanics as "spics" and "greasers" would be appalled at the thought today. 
>>>> 
>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net <mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I?ll have to add a dissenting voice about Henry Miller.  James is right to point out that Campbell?s review is contradictory, but 
>>>>> Campbell?s criticism of the man?s tremendous egotism is well taken.  He?s not as Coleridge said of Wordsworth, an example of the ?egotistical sublime,? more like the egotistical wretched.  His sexism, racism, and anti-Semitism were not unusual during his era (Pound and Eliot no doubt approved of the latter), but they don?t wear well today.  I really don?t buy that Miller?s writings can be justified as a writer playing with various personae.  Miller as writer is what you see is what you get.  My opinion, of course.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bruce 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 3:14 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Would love to respond in more detail but about to board my flight for Athens - am coming to Greece early - and will of course raise a glass to you, David, once we all converge in Rhthemno, for there is much to discuss! 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com <mailto:gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers James and Billy. To me this TLS article was agenda-driven character assassination through selective [mis]reading, and please consider how easy it would be to accuse Durrell of many of these same crimes by employing the same tactics. Sexist? Yes of course ? Miller is the poster child for sexism. Racist? I think this is wrong. He was a humanist. Miller is in trouble now because he always told the truth ? and the truth was often ugly in those racist times of terrible poverty. But here?s why people liked him, and why his loyal readers continue to like him: because in _Capricorn_ when his bosses at the Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company told him ?Be firm! Be hard!? instead he said to himself ?I?ll be generous, pliant, forgiving, tolerant, tender. In the beginning I heard every man to the end; if I couldn?t give him a job I gave him money, and if I had no money I gave him cigarettes or I gave him courage. But I gave!? And he continues to give. I have read widely in Miller but he was prolific and I have only scratched the surface, but if I may, I can always recommend _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks - Ken
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> James:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Perhaps the problem is that, like Kerouac, Miller did nothing publicly to dispel the image of what appears to be himself that he projected in his books. Perhaps he did not care enough to do so. Kerouac, though, had much to veil. But it was not until years later, and only when biographies began to be issued, that I realized the extent of the difference between their real and fictional personas.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers, Billy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>>>>> 512/708-8300 <tel:512%2F708-8300>
>>>>>>> 512/708-8011 <tel:512%2F708-8011> FAX
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > On Jun 3, 2016, at 12:51 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com <mailto:james.d.gifford at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Hello all,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > This piece by James Campbell on Henry Miller from the /TLS/ might be of interest -- Durrell comes up several times, and part of the critique likely parallel some of the critical challenges Durrell's works face:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/ <http://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/millers-fail/>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The part that strikes me the most is that the piece opens with an invocation of Durrell recognizing that Miller's books aren't actually the same as the author, then the article's author proceeds as if we're not supposed to see any of it as ironical.  That strikes me as a superficial reading.  Certainly several good points, but at the same time missing the point...
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > All best,
>>>>>>> > James
>>>>>>> >
>>> 
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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 12:45:59 2016
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 12:45:59 -0700
Subject: [ilds] TLS article on Henry Miller
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Hi Bruce, Billy, David, & all,

In a sense, this it the kind of crux on which readings of Miller pivot, 
and I think it's distinct but akin to what happens with Durrell.  I 
contributed a piece to James Decker and Indrek Manniste's book on Miller 
contrasting him against Kate Millett (with some digressions to Ursula Le 
Guin and Samuel Delany) -- while I like and agree with Millett's 
project, I'd also argue she pretty clearly mis-reads Miller by 
cherry-picking and deliberately eliding his anarchism.  It certainly 
didn't help that many of Miller's "boosters" did the same thing 
(basically with both "sides" often holding viable views for all the 
wrong reasons).

For example, Miller did leave France rather than fight (and tried to 
leave during the Munich Crisis), unlike Beckett, although critics like 
Ihab Hassan have seen fit to put Miller & Beckett together for other 
reasons (they conflict sharply though on politics, their views on Joyce, 
and their ties to the Surrealists).  However, Miller refused to fight 
because he was an anarchist pacifist, which is a clear rationale -- 
while one can call him a coward for it, he also was involved in the IWW 
earlier in his life when there was a definite personal risk to doing so. 
  Simply setting him as cowardly prevents close reading rather than 
encourages it.  Another anarchist, Robert Duncan, also got out of 
fighting in WWII after being drafted by admitting his homosexuality -- 
was that cowardly at the time?  I don't think so...

What Billy phrases as "no sense of obligation except to themselves" for 
Miller and Picasso is, I would argue, a quite specific political 
commitment.  David Gascoyne, for instance, critiques Miller saying 
"Miller?s chief weakness is perhaps his complete indifference to 
politics" but then changed his mind after being in Spain and drifted 
more and more to Miller's views.  Miller was explicit with Orwell too, 
writing "I don?t take the least interests in politics myself" and when 
discussing Orwell with the /Paris Review/ said his political interests 
were "None whatever. I regard politics as a thoroughly foul, rotten 
world. We get nowhere through politics. It debases everything."  Pat 
Leighton puts Picasso in exactly the same context (/Re-Ordering the 
Universe: Picasso and Anarchism, 1897-1914/), yet he's also often 
pointed to as a coward and selfish.

The turning point of that obligation to the self is fairly explicit for 
Miller in "An Open Letter to Surrealists Everywhere," which has a great 
deal more to do with Spain and Communism than is typically thought, and 
it comes as a response to Herbert Read's lecture for the 1936 London 
International Surrealist Exhibition that also provoked Durrell's first 
comments on the Heraldic Universe (as an interoluctor to Miller & Read's 
correspondence about anarchism and Surrealism).  As Miller puts it, it's 
easier to get people to follow movie stars or megalomaniacs like Hitler 
and Mussolini than it is to convince them to live their own lives for 
themselves, or very bluntly, "To get men to rally round a cause, a 
belief, an idea, is always easier than to persuade them to lead their 
own lives.... It seems to me that this struggle for liberty and justice 
is a confession or admission on the part of all those engaging in such a 
struggle that they have failed to live their own lives" followed by the 
telling references to the communists and fascists, "I am against 
revolutions because they always involve a return to the status quo. I am 
against the status quo both before and after revolutions. I don?t want 
to wear a black shirt or a red shirt. I want to wear the shirt that 
suits my taste."

As for the TLS review that sets out Miller's homophobia, I'd point out 
it comes from the first inaccurate biography rather than Miller's works 
themselves, and it avoids the overt homoerotic and explicitly homosexual 
content of Miller's books (in effect, we have to "straighten" Miller in 
order to queer him: https://commons.mla.org/deposits/item/mla:359/).

In other words, it's easy to see Miller as an egotistical coward, in 
large part because he uses euphemisms for some deep commitments and 
probably didn't care if people interpreted him that way.  In that same 
conflict thought, I'd suggest that Durrell and Miller were not so very 
different in carefully editing themselves -- Miller, after all, differed 
quite often from his character "Henry Miller."  I see much the same for 
Durrell.  Likewise, the sexism makes me uncomfortable when reading 
Miller, but I can't help but ask if I'm supposed to be uncomfortable. 
Sincerity vs. irony.

For that construction of a public reputation, however, and the critiques 
to which it falls, Durrell and Miller have a lot in common.  Durrell's 
reputation has, like Miller's, fallen foul of many of the literary and 
cultural movements the majority of us probably support.  As Bruce knows, 
I like Edward Said's work very much, but I also think his few comments 
on Durrell simply don't hold water.  Likewise, Terry Eagleton has 
published some very sharp condemnations of Durrell, and while I like 
Eagleton's work very much, I also don't think he's really read Durrell. 
Durrell hasn't faced a critique like Millett's, but at the same time I 
can't help but sense a widespread sense among the British literati that 
we simply needn't pay any heed to Durrell "for obvious reasons that 
won't be spoken of."

Like Miller the homophobic, cowardly, sexist racist, I think a straw man 
of Durrell has been set up that sidelines meaningful reading.

For example, Durrell is set up as a baroque stylist with wayyyy too much 
purple prose -- was this because he couldn't write any other way?  The 
sparseness of the poetry suggests otherwise, so the telling question 
might be "why does he deliberately differ *so much* from the predominant 
stylistics and poetics of his contemporaries?" rather than simply "look 
how unfashionable he is."

In another context, Durrell the Islamophobe conflicts with his 
cosmopolitanism.  A better question might be "why does he 'reside' while 
other more progressive (aka: acceptable) contemporaries were content to 
visit and briefly depict?" (that's not to sidestep the problems of race 
but rather, like Conrad, to expand them).

I'd add to it, when a good many critics loosely gesture to Durrell as 
depicting the last last gasp of a crumbling empire as if to glorify it, 
"why when his contemporaries retreated inward on a 'shrinking island' to 
a kind of angry young kitchen sink realism did he depict such a 
gloriously ridiculous, 'unreal' vision of empire as it sank?"

In a sense, it's like asking why Bendicta is in /Tunc/ & /Nunquam/?  Why 
she gets to live while Iolanthe dies?  Why she and Felix remain married? 
  Why we don't get to know what happens after Rome burns even after 
London (as the revived Rome) has already fallen.  Why wouldn't Durrell 
just show us his utopian leap into the future?

I suspect it's for the same reason we have the "leap" in /Panic Spring/ 
and /Cefalu/.  That moment of a radical break into the truly new can 
only be represented by the caesura...  The same reason he was over-fond 
of ellipses...

All best,
James