From hashsham.2011 at my.bristol.ac.uk  Tue Apr 26 10:23:21 2016
From: hashsham.2011 at my.bristol.ac.uk (Hashsham Khalid)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:23:21 +0500
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 108, Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1461610884.14742.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
References: <mailman.17.1461610884.14742.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
Message-ID: <CAMsQdUAYpBvpQnemvUqFbDrd7voFP5DeOxLsEwP7u9xSX1yFCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Would anyone be kind enough to tell me what the Greek epigraph before
MountOlive means?

Regards
Hashsham

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016, <ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca> wrote:

> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. B?atrice Commeng? /Une vie de paysages/ (James Gifford)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:40:28 -0700
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> To: ILDS Listserv <ilds at lists.uvic.ca <javascript:;>>
> Subject: [ilds] B?atrice Commeng? /Une vie de paysages/
> Message-ID: <6dd2a21b-fb30-c8f7-666a-408795634acb at gmail.com <javascript:;>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Dear all,
>
> Those of you who were in London for the Durrell Centenary may recall the
> performance/presentation by B?atrice Commeng?. She has evidently now
> published her reminiscences of her time with Durrell, /Une vie de
> paysages/:
>
>    http://editions-verdier.fr/livre/vie-de-paysages/
>
> There's a brief excerpt available as well:
>
>
>
> http://editions-verdier.fr/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/une_vie_de_paysages_extrait.pdf
>
> The excerpt will be quite familiar to those who saw her presentation.
> I've not yet read the rest of the book.
>
> All best,
> James
> --
> _________________________________________
>
> James Gifford, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of English
> Director of the University Core
> School of the Humanities
> University College
> Fairleigh Dickinson University
> Voice: 604-648-4476
> Fax: 604-648-4489
> E-mail: gifford at fdu.edu <javascript:;>
> Web: http://alpha.fdu.edu/~jgifford
>
> 842 Cambie Street
> Vancouver, BC V6B 2P6
> Canada
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <javascript:;>
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> ------------------------------
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> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 108, Issue 17
> *************************************
>
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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 10:46:45 2016
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:46:45 -0700
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 108, Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <CAMsQdUAYpBvpQnemvUqFbDrd7voFP5DeOxLsEwP7u9xSX1yFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.17.1461610884.14742.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
	<CAMsQdUAYpBvpQnemvUqFbDrd7voFP5DeOxLsEwP7u9xSX1yFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9bc6d93d-be5f-4e88-f991-8a371694a0b1@gmail.com>

Hello Hashsham (and all),

I'll add, there are two version of the text (if the Greek displays 
properly through the listserv):

   ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ????????? (omnibus edition)
   To anoma tou agathou diamonos

and

   ???????? ????????? (first edition)
   agathou diamonos

My Greek is bad and getting worse quickly, so someone please correct me 
-- I read it as "?? ????? ??? ?????? ????????" (to onoma tou agathou 
daemonos) and "in the name of Agathodaemon" or "the name of the good 
spirit" or for "?????? ????????" just "Agathodaemon" as a libation to 
good fortune.

Adding the French "A CLAUDE" seems to suggest "To Claude, good fortune."

A correction would be appreciated from anyone with better Greek than me, 
which is probably most of you...

All best,
James

On 2016-04-26 10:23 AM, Hashsham Khalid wrote:
> Hello,
> Would anyone be kind enough to tell me what the Greek epigraph before
> MountOlive means?
>
> Regards
> Hashsham

From durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:31:47 2016
From: durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 01:31:47 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Agathou diamonos
Message-ID: <CAHp0D1wk2sGvBZUb-qhC42SmTL4NBRjHnTGnQhehG5ZO-SqYWA@mail.gmail.com>

From: Hashsham Khalid <hashsham.2011 at my.bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 108, Issue 17
To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>


Hello,
Would anyone be kind enough to tell me what the Greek epigraph before
MountOlive means?

Regards
Hashsham

There are two versions of this epigraph:

Agathou diamonos - appears in the first edition of Mountolive

and

to onoma tou agathou diamonos - appears in the collected edition of the
Quartet

Taking the longer version, which is a dedication to LD's wife Claude
Vincendon, the literal meaning is, or could be

The name of the good spirit/demon

except that it is mis-spelt, since the correct Greek word is 'daimonos'

Any interpretation is bound to be ambiguous/uncertain because while
'daimonos' means - to modern Greeks - 'devil', LD would hardly refer to his
wife as 'the good devil' (although that in itself suggests a possible
oxymoronic joke on LD's part), which indicates that he intended 'daimon' or
'daemon' to mean 'spirit' in the sense of a guardian angel.
The word is not in itself a classical Greek usage, although 'daimon' (the
latter o being an omega rather than (as in modern parlance) an omicro)
means 'god' - or 'goddess' - similar to Latin 'numen', with a secondary
meaning of 'one's genius' or 'fortune'. However, as LD was not overly
familiar  with classical Greek, it seems unlikely that he had it in mind.
The OED defines 'demon' (giving its alternative spelling as 'daemon') in
several senses, including 1) an evil spirit and 2) an attendant or
indwelling spirit, one's genius. Clearly these two meanings could be
interpreted as mutually exclusive. Or not.
The latter meaning would seem to be more in line with LD's intention in
that he did regard Claude as such a spirit (as in 'genius loci', if one can
mix one's linguistic metaphors).
The misprint - 'diamonos' for 'daimonos' - presumably arose due to LD's
mis-typing which went undetected by the ignoramuses at Fabers who, in these
days, lack all pretensions to a classical education. We will say nothing of
the grammatical error(s).
I trust this answer is sufficiently obscure.
Richard Pine
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From durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:44:02 2016
From: durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 01:44:02 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Agathou diamonos
Message-ID: <CAHp0D1wPdYV4JC+vibTCbKy45kq00w4wxQdAJbiJh_N9YrwNUw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Hashsham (and all),

I'll add, there are two version of the text (if the Greek displays properly
through the listserv):

  ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ????????? (omnibus edition)
  To anoma tou agathou diamonos

and

  ???????? ????????? (first edition)
  agathou diamonos

My Greek is bad and getting worse quickly, so someone please correct me --
I read it as "?? ????? ??? ?????? ????????" (to onoma tou agathou daemonos)
and "in the name of Agathodaemon" or "the name of the good spirit" or for
"?????? ????????" just "Agathodaemon" as a libation to good fortune.

Adding the French "A CLAUDE" seems to suggest "To Claude, good fortune."

A correction would be appreciated from anyone with better Greek than me,
which is probably most of you...

All best,
James

I rise to Professor Gifford's bait. He does not need to apologise for his
ignorance of Greek, which he has already ably demonstrated in his edition
of "Panic Spring". To suggest that the inscription means 'In the name of
Agathodaemon' is preposterous.And I do not see any relevance in the idea of
'libation'. That is absurd.
The dedication 'A Claude' which Gifford rightly intuits as being in French,
rather than a reference to 'a Claude' (whatever a Claude might be),
suggests that LD has dedicated the book to his wife, Claude, with the added
epigraph 'The name of the good spirit'. He is not wishing her good
fortune.He is recognising her as HIS good fortune. QED and QNED.
However, in these days of deconstructionism, postmpodernism and
preinterpretationism, one can never be certain of anything, can one?
Sufficiently diforoumenos and asafis, I hope.
RP
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 27 08:30:09 2016
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:30:09 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Agathou diamonos
In-Reply-To: <CAHp0D1wPdYV4JC+vibTCbKy45kq00w4wxQdAJbiJh_N9YrwNUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHp0D1wPdYV4JC+vibTCbKy45kq00w4wxQdAJbiJh_N9YrwNUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5D41A4B5-1C3E-4460-8286-25F5177AB306@earthlink.net>

For the sake of brevity, perhaps Richard, a speaker of modern Greek, can summarize his translation/interpretation of the 1962 dedication in Mountolive.  Does the following reflect his considered view (avoiding all the other possibilities)?

To
Claude
[my] good fortune

So, Durrell addresses his beloved Claude in French but compliments her in Greek.  It?s not unusual to find dedications in another language, often classical and untranslated.  But code-switching I find interesting.

Thanks,

Bruce





> On Apr 26, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Richard Pine <durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Hashsham (and all),
> 
> I'll add, there are two version of the text (if the Greek displays properly through the listserv):
> 
>   ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ????????? (omnibus edition)
>   To anoma tou agathou diamonos
> 
> and
> 
>   ???????? ????????? (first edition)
>   agathou diamonos
> 
> My Greek is bad and getting worse quickly, so someone please correct me -- I read it as "?? ????? ??? ?????? ????????" (to onoma tou agathou daemonos) and "in the name of Agathodaemon" or "the name of the good spirit" or for "?????? ????????" just "Agathodaemon" as a libation to good fortune.
> 
> Adding the French "A CLAUDE" seems to suggest "To Claude, good fortune."
> 
> A correction would be appreciated from anyone with better Greek than me, which is probably most of you...
> 
> All best,
> James
> 
> I rise to Professor Gifford's bait. He does not need to apologise for his ignorance of Greek, which he has already ably demonstrated in his edition of "Panic Spring". To suggest that the inscription means 'In the name of Agathodaemon' is preposterous.And I do not see any relevance in the idea of 'libation'. That is absurd.
> The dedication 'A Claude' which Gifford rightly intuits as being in French, rather than a reference to 'a Claude' (whatever a Claude might be), suggests that LD has dedicated the book to his wife, Claude, with the added epigraph 'The name of the good spirit'. He is not wishing her good fortune.He is recognising her as HIS good fortune. QED and QNED. 
> However, in these days of deconstructionism, postmpodernism and preinterpretationism, one can never be certain of anything, can one?
> Sufficiently diforoumenos and asafis, I hope.
> RP

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From durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 10:41:45 2016
From: durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:41:45 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Agathou daimonos
Message-ID: <CAHp0D1wbDmPymKEeM3Py9KvEnmSKnPsPCnrYUY4kvS9kh1VaMg@mail.gmail.com>

In a roundabout way we have received this from Bruce - because it seems the
moderator of this list does not accede to requests to register this as the
receiving address of the Durrell Library of Corfu, despite repeated
requests from our Secretary to do so.

I am not in fact 'a speaker of modern Greek' - merely someone living in
Greece who was able, a whole lifetime ago, to speak and write classical
Greek and is therefore more puzzled than most by the difficulties of
speaking or reading modern Greek. The vocabulary is almost unchanged, but
the grammar is totally different. I suppose my ability in modern Greek
could be described as 'taverna Greek' - limited to the necessities.

So, to answer Bruce's question, Greeks will argue the meaning of almost any
word you care to offer, because of ambiguities, multiple words with nuances
that distinguish one inflexion from another, regional variations (these are
very acute between north and south, east and west, rural and urban, 'Greek
Greeks' and Pontic or Anatolian blow-ins, the Aegean islands and the Ionian
islands (where the Durrell Library of Corfu is based) etc.

I take Durrell's meaning to be:

To Claude
the name of the good spirit

Alternatively

To Claude,
The name of the presiding genius

It depends entirely on a) what Durrell really intended and b) how one
interprets subjectively from Greek to English, which an anglophone will do
differently from a hellenophone.

I am fairly sure that he was saluting Claude, not invoking her or paying
her any tribute, and certainly not offering Claude good fortune, but
acknowledging that SHE was HIS good fortune, his inspiration (in the sense
we use 'daemon' ourselves).
Considering that LD was a) misogynistic, b) that we know from personal
testimony that he occasionally assaulted her but also c) that she was
probably the one wife whom he really respected as a true artist, one could
of course argue a different meaning, but I stick with the two I have
offered above. It's a statement, not an invocation.
RP

------------------------------------------------------
For the sake of brevity, perhaps Richard, a speaker of modern Greek, can
summarize his translation/interpretation of the 1962 dedication in
*Mountolive.*  Does the following reflect his considered view (avoiding all
the other possibilities)?

To
Claude
[my] good fortune


So, Durrell addresses his beloved Claude in French but compliments her in
Greek.  It?s not unusual to find dedications in another language, often
classical and untranslated.  But code-switching I find interesting.

Thanks,

Bruce
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 27 11:20:54 2016
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:20:54 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Agathou daimonos
In-Reply-To: <CAHp0D1wbDmPymKEeM3Py9KvEnmSKnPsPCnrYUY4kvS9kh1VaMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHp0D1wbDmPymKEeM3Py9KvEnmSKnPsPCnrYUY4kvS9kh1VaMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <981DD1D9-4FC4-4509-AD7F-A22BC9031068@earthlink.net>

Richard, thanks for the clarification.  I note, however, that in a previous email you stated, ?[Durrell] is not wishing her good fortune.  He is recognising her as HIS good fortune.?  This, of course, is your interpretation of Durrell?s intent, which is always tricky to recover.  Thanks for the two literal translations of the Greek.  I have very limited knowledge of Attic Greek, but from what I recall, that dialect has a fondness for deleting the copula (to be).  So, the English translations might read, ?To Claude, [who is] the name of the good spirit? or ?To Claude, [who is] the name of the presiding genius.?  Those two senses in English emphasize a direct relationship and might better bring out your interpretation of Durrell?s intent, which I agree with.

Also, I don?t know if Claude-Marie Vincendon knew Greek.  Unlike Yvette Cohen, who did know the language (according to Haag, I believe), Claude?s knowledge of the languages spoken in Alexandria (other than French and English) was apparently not as extensive as wife No. 2?s.

Bruce



> On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Richard Pine <durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a roundabout way we have received this from Bruce - because it seems the moderator of this list does not accede to requests to register this as the receiving address of the Durrell Library of Corfu, despite repeated requests from our Secretary to do so.
> 
> I am not in fact 'a speaker of modern Greek' - merely someone living in Greece who was able, a whole lifetime ago, to speak and write classical Greek and is therefore more puzzled than most by the difficulties of speaking or reading modern Greek. The vocabulary is almost unchanged, but the grammar is totally different. I suppose my ability in modern Greek could be described as 'taverna Greek' - limited to the necessities.
> 
> So, to answer Bruce's question, Greeks will argue the meaning of almost any word you care to offer, because of ambiguities, multiple words with nuances that distinguish one inflexion from another, regional variations (these are very acute between north and south, east and west, rural and urban, 'Greek Greeks' and Pontic or Anatolian blow-ins, the Aegean islands and the Ionian islands (where the Durrell Library of Corfu is based) etc.
> 
> I take Durrell's meaning to be:
> 
> To Claude
> the name of the good spirit
> 
> Alternatively
> 
> To Claude,
> The name of the presiding genius
> 
> It depends entirely on a) what Durrell really intended and b) how one interprets subjectively from Greek to English, which an anglophone will do differently from a hellenophone.
> 
> I am fairly sure that he was saluting Claude, not invoking her or paying her any tribute, and certainly not offering Claude good fortune, but acknowledging that SHE was HIS good fortune, his inspiration (in the sense we use 'daemon' ourselves). 
> Considering that LD was a) misogynistic, b) that we know from personal testimony that he occasionally assaulted her but also c) that she was probably the one wife whom he really respected as a true artist, one could of course argue a different meaning, but I stick with the two I have offered above. It's a statement, not an invocation.
> RP
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> For the sake of brevity, perhaps Richard, a speaker of modern Greek, can summarize his translation/interpretation of the 1962 dedication in Mountolive.  Does the following reflect his considered view (avoiding all the other possibilities)?
> 
> To
> Claude
> [my] good fortune
> 
> So, Durrell addresses his beloved Claude in French but compliments her in Greek.  It?s not unusual to find dedications in another language, often classical and untranslated.  But code-switching I find interesting.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bruce

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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 17:42:18 2016
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:42:18 -0700
Subject: [ilds] information request
Message-ID: <801c9f03-3c98-9f0e-bf0c-ae6f03629f51@gmail.com>

Dear all,

We have an information request for the list's collective hive-mind.  In 
1994, the Miller association in Perigeux, France, organized a conference 
with an exhibit at Shakespeare and Co. in Paris.

Was anyone here in attendance, and if so, do you have any photographs?

All best,
James

From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 18:06:45 2016
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:06:45 -0700
Subject: [ilds] administravia
Message-ID: <9db2167c-e195-3873-cd35-e8b8a66519a9@gmail.com>

Dear all,

Anyone wishing to revise their subscriptions or other related 
administravia for the listserv can do so through the ILDS website:

   http://lawrencedurrell.org/

The specific link is on the right hand side over the box to search the 
listserv's history and beneath the membership link.  Everything from 
subscriptions to password retrieval is fairly elementary.

For what it's worth, the administrative record includes your full email 
headers, including your IP address, but this is all scrubbed before any 
messages are posted and recorded in the listserv's archive.

All best,
James