From dtart at bigpond.net.au Mon Apr 11 00:11:35 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:11:35 +1000 Subject: [ilds] Durrell's valley, Nimes, France. The view is from his terrace. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The view is from the mazet, now mas Michel where Durrell and Claude lived in the early 1960s. Just behind where the photo was taken, are the stone walls Larry built. I was there last year and had a wonderful evening with the current owner. The building in the mid foreground is the mazet dodo where I stayed. When Larry had the place, it was a barn. David Sent from my iPad > On 11 Apr 2016, at 2:33 PM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: > > Which valley, David? From the Villa Louis? > > Peter > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 10 Apr 2016, at 22:05, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From dtart at bigpond.net.au Mon Apr 11 00:17:41 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:17:41 +1000 Subject: [ilds] The walls that Larry built, and the Garden Louisa, Mas Michel, Nimes, 2015. Message-ID: <4C55196A-7C01-442E-8E3F-991341E02B40@bigpond.net.au> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Please add this new address to your mailing list. durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com Thank you Maria Vlachou Secretary Durrell Library of Corfu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billyapt at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 11:20:40 2016 From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:20:40 -0500 Subject: [ilds] Fwd: ILDS References: <22537325-AF96-478C-B967-0392DF541551@me.com> Message-ID: Dearest all: This was received from Dominic Green of the Fermor Society. WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 Austin TX 78701 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX Begin forwarded message: > From: Dominic Green > Date: April 11, 2016 at 12:11:49 PM CDT > To: William Apt > Subject: Re: ILDS > > Thanks, Billy. I was about to ask! Here?s what I sent to James Gifford: > > > > > > Dear Mr Gifford, > > William Apt of the ILDS recommended that I write to you in regard to advertising the Patrick Leigh Fermor Society?s tour of Greece, June 17th-30th 2016. > > Our last few days overlap with the ILDS? conference. We?ve arranged a great selection of speakers and guests, and visits, including to the Villa Ariadne, which is usually off limits. > > We still have a few spaces to fill - we have a maximum of 20 people - and obviously ILDS members would make ideal companions for a PLF-themed tour. (Mr. Apt is already on the tour.) Obviously, the price would be adjusted downwards in cases where travelers have already signed up for the ILDS?s conference. > > Would you be able to post the following to the ILDS list serve? > > Many thanks for your help. > > Yours sincerely, > Dominic Green > > > > > Dominic Green, PhD, FrHistS, FRSA > 3 Meadow Way > Cambridge MA 02138-4607 > > > > > > > > In Paddy's Footsteps: A Private Tour of Patrick Leigh Fermor?s Greece and Crete > > 17th-30th June 2016 > > > > In Paddy?s Footsteps is a unique journey into Patrick Leigh Fermor?s Greece and Crete. Between 17th and 30th June 2016, a group of no more than twenty travellers will visit major sites in PLF?s life: from his favourite restaurants and hotels, to the homes where he lived and wrote; from Classical monuments to the caves in which the Kreipe kidnappers hid. Our guides will include several Leigh Fermor experts. > > > > The tour begins in Athens, where we will eat at Tou Psara, where Leigh Fermor and George Katsimbalis often ate. We then travel through Mycenae and Epidavros to Leigh Fermor?s preferred hotel in Nafplion. From there, we visit Hydra, where much of Mani was written, and the mill at Lemonodassos where Leigh Fermor lived in 1935-36. Then, after stopping at Mystras, we will visit Leigh Fermor?s house at Kardamyli and explore the Mani. Next, we travel to Crete where, after visiting Knossos and the Kreipe kidnap site, we will trace the kidnappers? journey into the White Mountains, and tour the Resistance sites of the Amari Valley. Our journey ends at Rethymnon, where we will link up with the International Lawrence Durrell Society?s conference. > > > > * Four-star hotels, air-conditioned private transportation. > > * Expert speakers and guides, including Chris White (contributing author of ?Abducting a General?), Costas Malamakis (former curator, Historical Museum of Crete), and Simon Fenwick (archivist who has been researching the Leigh Fermor and Xan Fielding archives). > > * Private visit to Leigh Fermor?s Mani home, guided by his housekeeper Elpida Beloyanni. > > * Guided tours of the Kreipe abduction site and escape route, and the Resistance sites of the Amari Valley. > > * Entry to the International Lawrence Durrell Society?s conference, On Miracle Ground, whose theme is ?British Writers in World War II Crete?. > > * Optional tours of the Benaki Museum, the Hadjikyriakos-Ghika House, the town of Chania, and the Samaria Gorge. > > * The tour is strictly limited to no more than twenty travellers. > > * Cost: 2965 Euros per head (party of 20 ), 3315 EU (party of 15), including Athens-Heraklion flights, all private ground transportation, hotels, breakfasts, 16 lunches or dinners, conference fees, and guide fees. P > > * To register or request further details, please email info at patrickleighfermorsociety.org > > > > >> On Apr 11, 2016, at 12:40 PM, William Apt wrote: >> >> Dominic: >> >> The PLF tour info hadn't yet appeared on the ILDS listserv. Were you able to make contact with Gifford? Did he respond? If he has not, send what you wrote to me and I'll post. >> >> Billy >> >> WILLIAM APT >> Attorney at Law >> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >> Austin TX 78701 >> 512/708-8300 >> 512/708-8011 FAX > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 22:05:11 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:05:11 -0700 Subject: [ilds] =?utf-8?q?In_Paddy=27s_Footsteps=3A_A_Private_Tour_of_Patr?= =?utf-8?q?ick_Leigh_Fermor=E2=80=99s_Greece_and_Crete?= Message-ID: <570DD387.2040706@gmail.com> Dear all, I've been told a seat or two are still available in the Fermor group that will overlap with the Crete conference. I've pasted the details below (with envy for everyone who is going...). All best, James ------------- In Paddy's Footsteps: A Private Tour of Patrick Leigh Fermor?s Greece and Crete 17th-30th June 2016 In Paddy?s Footsteps is a unique journey into Patrick Leigh Fermor?s Greece and Crete. Between 17th and 30th June 2016, a group of no more than twenty travellers will visit major sites in PLF?s life: from his favourite restaurants and hotels, to the homes where he lived and wrote; from Classical monuments to the caves in which the Kreipe kidnappers hid. Our guides will include several Leigh Fermor experts. The tour begins in Athens, where we will eat at Tou Psara, where Leigh Fermor and George Katsimbalis often ate. We then travel through Mycenae and Epidavros to Leigh Fermor?s preferred hotel in Nafplion. From there, we visit Hydra, where much of Mani was written, and the mill at Lemonodassos where Leigh Fermor lived in 1935-36. Then, after stopping at Mystras, we will visit Leigh Fermor?s house at Kardamyli and explore the Mani. Next, we travel to Crete where, after visiting Knossos and the Kreipe kidnap site, we will trace the kidnappers? journey into the White Mountains, and tour the Resistance sites of the Amari Valley. Our journey ends at Rethymnon, where we will link up with the International Lawrence Durrell Society?s conference. * Four-star hotels, air-conditioned private transportation. * Expert speakers and guides, including Chris White (contributing author of ?Abducting a General?), Costas Malamakis (former curator, Historical Museum of Crete), and Simon Fenwick (archivist who has been researching the Leigh Fermor and Xan Fielding archives). * Private visit to Leigh Fermor?s Mani home, guided by his housekeeper Elpida Beloyanni. * Guided tours of the Kreipe abduction site and escape route, and the Resistance sites of the Amari Valley. * Entry to the International Lawrence Durrell Society?s conference, On Miracle Ground, whose theme is ?British Writers in World War II Crete?. * Optional tours of the Benaki Museum, the Hadjikyriakos-Ghika House, the town of Chania, and the Samaria Gorge. * The tour is strictly limited to no more than twenty travellers. * Cost: 2965 Euros per head (party of 20), 3315 EU (party of 15), including Athens-Heraklion flights, all private ground transportation, hotels, breakfasts, 16 lunches or dinners, conference fees, and guide fees. * To register or request further details, please email info at patrickleighfermorsociety.org From durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 01:52:51 2016 From: durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 11:52:51 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Caesar's Vast Ghost in Polish translation Message-ID: We are pleased to inform members of this group that Lawrence Durrell's "Caesar's Vast Ghost" has just been published in a Polish translation (by Anna Przedpelska-Trzeciakowska) as "Prowansja", in a print-run of 4000 copies, published by Grupa Wydawnickza Foksal of Warsaw. It carries the original dedication to Francoise Kestman [sic], "wspanialej w swej hojnosci i urodzie". Maria Vlachou Secretary Durrell Library of Corfu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.gero at hotmail.com Wed Apr 13 09:58:37 2016 From: pan.gero at hotmail.com (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:58:37 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Durrell's endings In-Reply-To: <7EC96D11-22E8-45D8-BA60-92D61FD2D395@earthlink.net> References: <2E5D8CA9-4730-4417-AB34-6BA2168DC302@bigpond.net.au>, , , <7EC96D11-22E8-45D8-BA60-92D61FD2D395@earthlink.net> Message-ID: A reader reads according his own sensibilities, cultural background and personal bias. Redwine agrees with Whitewine in describing ?Bitter Lemons? as a fine, clear, concise, poetic book. I do not have the ambition to argue or answer to the insults launched against my nullity for having pointed out facts that Redwine, Whitewine, Gifford and Richard Pine, should have known long ago as official exegetes of LD?s writings. The irony of the thing is that, far from being a slanderer of LD?s memory I think I have a better understanding of his misfortunes in Cyprus. To explain this, I have to recall another philhellene. In ?The Philhellenes? C. M. Woodhouse, parachuted on a Greek mountain during the World War II, observes that his philhellenism and that of his? British companions fighting the Nazis on the Greek mountains, had nothing in common with the philhellenes of the 1820s and their aspirations, for catholic emancipation, parliamentary reform, republicanism etc. Their motives ?were free of ideology?. After World War II, Woodhouse and many of his British mountain companions joined ?The Friends?, alias ?M16?, to fight communism. His personal involvement in creating the net of the operation ?BOOT-AIAX? aimed to topple Mohammad Mosaddegh is well known. It is also well known that, far from being directed against communism, that operation was directed against the nationalization of the ?Anglo Iranian Oil Company?. In ?Something Ventured? Woodhouse acknowledges its catastrophic consequences that brought-back in power in Iran first the Shah and then, in 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini. He justifies his actions as follows: [?] What we did not foresee was that the Shah would gather new strength and use it so tyrannically, nor that the US government and the Foreign Office would fail so abjectly to keep him on a reasonable course. At that time, we were simply relieved that the threat to British interests had been removed. Sic et simpliciter. The consequences of this and other operations of the same kind are before our eyes in every day?s newspapers. The parallel between Mosaddegh and Makarios (the black-Mac as LD called him privately) and the resemblance of the M16 methods in defense of British interests in Iran and Cyprus, evoking in first place the communist threat is also striking. In January 1953, LD descended in ordered mission to Cyprus to defend the British interests evoking the communist threat, mixing sex to the political propaganda of the CBS, and trying to lull the ?Enotist feeling? by advertising in all directions his philhellenism and his ties with the Greek intellectuals of the ?Generation of the 30s?. They were fast to take distances from their former friend. Not because they were Greeks or Cypriots, as Richard Pine likes to believe, but to put it with George Seferis, in the last words of one of his last texts, written directly in French, at the request of Frederic Temple director of ?Entretiens?, for a special issue dedicated to LD with the English title ?Many Nightingales ago? But I belong to another ?private country and I would like to emphasize the word ?private? (LABRYS 5, LAWRENCE DURRELL July 1979) The Durrellian Temple published in ?Entretiens? two years after Seferis? death, a censored version of the original manipulating it so to hide the fact that, notwithstanding his deep human sympathy for Larry, in 1970 Seferis considered him a former friend (an ancient ami). To avoid misunderstandings I transcribe in French the last paragraph of the original conserved in Seferis? Archives of Gennadios Library of Athens, resounding Seferis thoughts on LD?s propaganda tactics in Cyprus unmistakably revealed in Bitter Lemons Je disais tout ? l?heure que ce soit le pass? qui m?ait dict? ces lignes. Le pr?sent - que l?on me passe l?anglicisme - n?est pas malheureusement tr?s invigorant pour moi. D?autre part il y a longtemps que de circonstances fortuites ont voulu que nous ne puissions pas nous voir tr?s souvent. Ainsi s?est tout naturellement que je me suis tourn? vers Larry le po?te avec lequel j??tais plus familier : - le roman n?est pas mon fort et je n?ai jamais attach? grande importance ? Durrell le fonctionnaire dont les dr?leries diplomatiques ont fait rire beaucoup de gens dans les chancelleries. Ce n?est pas par puritanisme que je dis cela. Chacun a le droit de s?amuser comme il peut mais j?appartiens ? une autre ?Private Country?. Je tiens ? souligner le mot ?Private?. - Ath?nes 31 Mai 1970. George Seferis. LD?s ?dr?leries diplomatiques? in Cyprus, were certainly childlike and in last analysis much more harmless than the intrigues of Woodhouse in Iran. On the other hand we cannot ignore that he served like Woodhouse the interests of the collapsing British empire. Considering him a philhellene whatever this word meant in the 1950s or can mean today is ridiculous. If not for anything else because he defined himself ironically philhellenese. Be it as it may it is offensive to his memory saying that he did what he did it for money taken in an Agon between heart and head letting the head always win. Like Woodhouse he was a fervid anticommunist and a devoted Tory and he had no obligation whatever to serve Greece. In conclusion, everybody has the right to amuse himself as he can and Richard Pine to press the Mayor of Corfu to rename the ?Bosketto? in ?Bosketto Durrell? or unveil bronze Bas Reliefs, paid by the multinational Luis Group, to honor the philhellene LD in pathetic ceremonies framed by young Corfiots in local costumes, reminiscing Byronic klephts. In another point of his post, Richard Pine says ?If to be British/English is to be bad (in Greek terms) then there can be no philhellenes, hence no Byron?. Hence, no Mr. Pine I suppose. P.Gerontopoulos From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:32:39 -0700 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Subject: [ilds] Durrell's endings David, What you say is absolutely true. Still. This has been discussed before years back, namely, Durrell?s tendency to conclude (not the right word?no real conclusion) his fictions on a note of darkness or ambiguity. I?m thinking of Prospero?s Cell, Marine Venus, Bitter Lemons, Dark Labyrinth, Justine, and even Quinx. The move is from exterior to interior. The lyric ?Bitter Lemons? illustrates this beautifully?an island (indefinitely located) yields to reflections on some trauma (deliberately hidden). A coda winds up a piece of art. It?s a summation. If the subject of this poem is Eve Cohen and if she embodies the mental state of ?biter lemons,? then the whole book (or some major part anyway) is really a descant on Durrell?s troubled marriage and problems with women. My interpretation, that is. Bruce On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:54 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:Yes, Bitter lemons, the poem, is a favourite. Tight, cryptic but evoktive. Hard to know what saying but I agree that it is personal poem about loss, loss of youth, loss of Eve and loss of beloved Greece. It was on Cyprus that Larry and Eve's relationship irretrievably broke down. There were black eyes and claw marks probably best left unsaid. Eve took Sappho away with her. His beloved Greeks turned on him, Panos was shot and attempts made on his life before he fled, never to live in Greece again. Tears Unshed may refer to that deep emotional pain that will never fully heal. Dunno - or perhaps something to do with true story never being able to be told. Larry may have left Greece but Greece never left him. When he bought the mazet near Nimes it was because the land there reminded him of Greece, especially Corfu. David Sent from my iPad On 11 Apr 2016, at 1:35 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: David, I think you're on point about Durrell's memoir, Bitter Lemons. This is a good summation. But what do you think about the coda, the short poem "Bitter Lemons?" I see a shift--from the political to the personal. The hidden reference is to Eve and not, as you might expect, to the sadness of the political situation. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Apr 9, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: 'Bitter Lemons' won the Duff Cooper prize in 1957 not because Lord Balfour would have approved or because it 'whitewashed' British complicity and folly in the Cyprus crisis, but because it is a fine book and, along with Justine, one of Durrell's best. It is clear, concise, poetic and energetically written with a well selected cast of characters who allow the author to tell the unfolding tragedy from a range of perspectives (Greek, Turkish, British) with wit, humour, wisdom, pathos and a sense of inevitable impending doom; all this through an excellent story arc that moves effortlessly from comedy to tragedy. As such it not a 'political book' in the sense of being an in depth critique of British policy. However, we are left in no doubt of the party line Durrell had to spruik, often reluctantly. The British community is portrayed as inept, boorish and insensitive to local feelings and culture. He shows that the British decision to close the door on Enosis was a mistake and ! t! ha! t the Cyprus situation could not be kept as a colonial matter. Although not a fan of Greek administration he is sympathetic to their cause, but also represents the Turkish view and well as that of the administration. I have read Bitter Lemons several times and, given the balance of perspectives that Durrell weaves through his narrative, find it disingenuous to accuse Durrell of 'whitewashing' the British handling of the crisis. To suggest this is to suggest a different book to one I read. Durrell builds his story from the hint of menace in 'Voices at the Tavern Door' to a 'Feast of Unreason' and then 'Vanishing Landmarks'. He is as critical of British blindness and insensitivity as he is of the nationalistic rhetoric pouring out of politicians in Athens and Ankara, inflaming the local situation. The chapter 'Point of No Return' explores a range of perspectives here. In his role as school teacher, civil servant and inhabitant who could speak Greek and understood Greek culture and history, he was well placed to see all sides and this comes through. Durrell's pain, internal conflict and sadness are palpable; a Greek world that he loved and in which he hoped to live falling apart as he 'a! c! hi! eves nothing'. It maybe he is too sentimental about the so called historic friendship between Britain and Greece dating back to Byron's time, but we should remember that Durrell had the best of his youth in Greece and if we are in any doubt as to his views of the British administration, I shall leave you with the words of his friend Richard Lumley: "And I can see him now (Durrell) sitting in the hall, fairly pissed one evening, and the telephone goes and a long, increasingly angry conversation. And this is one of the top in the administration. And Larry's punchline I'll never forget - 'anyway, you're an inept cunt!' Howls of laughter and he puts the receiver down." Needless to say, Durrell's days in the diplomatic corps were numbered. David _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 23:19:40 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:19:40 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Happy Birthday... In-Reply-To: <000001d1910b$817bd860$84738920$@earthlink.net> References: <57054AB1.9050802@gmail.com> <000001d1910b$817bd860$84738920$@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <570F367C.1060405@gmail.com> Dear all, Apologies, but the end of term draws near, so I'll be silent for a while on this listserv among other things. V. briefly (Anne's kind comments blushingly noted), the nominations from the ILDS membership for the various board positions is *very much* wanted. If you're a society member, please let David Radavich (email below) know your thoughts so that the committee can in good conscience reflect the membership's views rather than its own consensus. David has asked for suggestions by April 15th. All best, James On 2016-04-07 1:24 PM, Anne Zahlan wrote: > Indeed, many congratulations to James for the effort and creativity he > unfailingly contributes to the discussion.Here's to a productive tenth year! > > And I pass on a message from the ILDS Nominations Committee (David > Radavich, James Gifford, Don Kaczvinsky, Grove Koger) that some of you > may not have received by earlier email. The time to make your > suggestions for ILDS leadership is now. > > Dear Fellow Durrellians, > > As chair of the International Lawrence Durrell Society > nominating committee, I am writing to solicit your nominations for > officers and Board members to serve the Society from July 2016 through > June 2018. The officer positions are President, Vice-President, and > Secretary/Treasurer. For the three at-large Board positions, we > particularly welcome nominations of those persons who may be newer to > Durrell studies and who might bring a fresh perspective to Board > discussions. Since the Board meets yearly at the Literature Since 1900 > Conference toward the end of February in Louisville, it would be > advantageous for nominees to travel to the Board meeting or participate > through Skype. > > Please send your nominations and suggestions to daradavich at eiu.edu by > April 15. Thanks in advance for your input. > > David Radavich, Chair > > ILDS Nominating Committee From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 23:25:08 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:25:08 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Reading Group... In-Reply-To: References: <42452F53-583F-4311-A0E2-A21E6DBE5EE0@gmail.com> <001801d19363$4d26d150$e77473f0$@cerar@guest.arnes.si> Message-ID: <570F37C4.80500@gmail.com> Dear all, I'll keep my views to myself on this for a while, but are there other wishes from those on the listserv? Apologies if I don't respond between now and the end of term. Best, James On 2016-04-10 9:43 PM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: > My vote goes for Tunc. No need , in my view, to focus again on Justine. > What a prescient novel Tunc is - with voice recognition now widely > available on our computers and the availability of 3D modelling. And is > the recent Greek experience of the EU not The Firm come true...? > > Peter From giacomoesposito72 at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 11:12:38 2016 From: giacomoesposito72 at gmail.com (james Esposito) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:12:38 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Durrell's endings In-Reply-To: References: <2E5D8CA9-4730-4417-AB34-6BA2168DC302@bigpond.net.au> <7EC96D11-22E8-45D8-BA60-92D61FD2D395@earthlink.net> Message-ID: As a lawyer, I must regrettably say that, if I were a judge hearing this as a case, I would have to dismiss it, and order each side to pay its own costs. I can see no way that there can be any resolution of the dispute about Durrell's motives in writing "Bitter Lemons" if a critic such as Mr Gerontopoulos takes such an intemperate view and refuses to see any point of view other than his own. Mr Gerontopoulos cites the work of C M Woodhouse. From what I have read of Woodhouse, his stance as a Churchillian anti-communist calls seriously into question his status as a philhellene and his impartiality as an historian of the second world war in Greece or the subsequent civil war, especially when he was a participant in the scenario he purports to describe objectively. When Mr Gerontopoulos says "A reader reads according his own sensibilities, cultural background and personal bias," he is of course not only laying claim to his own arguments but also, perhaps unconsciously, validating the arguments on the other side. In my opinion it is deeply regrettable that there should be such "sides", or such violent dispute about the merits or defects of "Bitter Lemons" or any other of Lawrence Durrell's writing or, indeed, those of his brother Gerald. This type of invective is not attractive and it suggests to me, especially when associated with a gratuitous insult offered to me by Professor James Gifford for which he makes no attempt to apologise, that my joining this group was ill-advised and I am therefore taking no further part in its discussions. Sincerely James Esposito On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Panaiotis Gerontopoulos < pan.gero at hotmail.com> wrote: > A reader reads according his own sensibilities, cultural background and > personal bias. Redwine agrees with Whitewine in describing ?Bitter Lemons? > as a fine, clear, concise, poetic book. I do not have the ambition to argue > or answer to the insults launched against my nullity for having pointed out > facts that Redwine, Whitewine, Gifford and Richard Pine, should have known > long ago as official exegetes of LD?s writings. > > The irony of the thing is that, far from being a slanderer of LD?s > memory I think I have a better understanding of his misfortunes in Cyprus. > To explain this, I have to recall another philhellene. In ?The > Philhellenes? C. M. Woodhouse, parachuted on a Greek mountain during the > World War II, observes that his philhellenism and that of his? British > companions fighting the Nazis on the Greek mountains, had nothing in common > with the philhellenes of the 1820s and their aspirations, for catholic > emancipation, parliamentary reform, republicanism etc. Their motives ?were > free of ideology?. > > After World War II, Woodhouse and many of his British mountain companions > joined ?The Friends?, alias ?M16?, to fight communism. His personal > involvement in creating the net of the operation ?BOOT-AIAX? aimed to > topple Mohammad Mosaddegh is well known. It is also well known that, far > from being directed against communism, that operation was directed against > the nationalization of the ?Anglo Iranian Oil Company?. In ?Something > Ventured? Woodhouse acknowledges its catastrophic consequences that > brought-back in power in Iran first the Shah and then, in 1979, Ayatollah > Khomeini. He justifies his actions as follows: > > > [?] *What we did not foresee was that the Shah would gather new strength > and use it so tyrannically, nor that the US government and the Foreign > Office would fail so abjectly to keep him on a reasonable course. At that > time, we were simply relieved that the threat to British interests had been > removed**.* > > > Sic et simpliciter. The consequences of this and other operations of > the same kind are before our eyes in every day?s newspapers. The parallel > between Mosaddegh and Makarios (the black-Mac as LD called him privately) > and the resemblance of the M16 methods in defense of British interests in > Iran and Cyprus, evoking in first place the communist threat is also > striking. In January 1953, LD descended in ordered mission to Cyprus to > defend the British interests evoking the communist threat, mixing sex to > the political propaganda of the CBS, and trying to lull the ?Enotist > feeling? by advertising in all directions his *philhellenism *and his > ties with the Greek intellectuals of the ?Generation of the 30s?. > > They were fast to take distances from their former friend. Not because > they were Greeks or Cypriots, as Richard Pine likes to believe, but to put > it with George Seferis, in the last words of one of his last texts, written > directly in French, at the request of Frederic Temple director of > ?Entretiens?, for a special issue dedicated to LD with the English title > ?Many Nightingales ago? > > > *But I belong to another ?private country and I would like to emphasize > the word ?private?* (LABRYS 5, LAWRENCE DURRELL July 1979) > > > The Durrellian Temple published in ?Entretiens? two years after Seferis? > death, a censored version of the original manipulating it so to hide the > fact that, notwithstanding his deep human sympathy for Larry, in 1970 > Seferis considered him a former friend (an* ancient ami*). To avoid > misunderstandings I transcribe in French the last paragraph of the original > conserved in Seferis? Archives of Gennadios Library of Athens, resounding > Seferis thoughts on LD?s propaganda tactics in Cyprus unmistakably revealed > in Bitter Lemons > > > *Je disais tout ? l?heure que ce soit le pass? qui m?ait dict? ces lignes. > Le pr?sent - que l?on me passe l?anglicisme - n?est pas malheureusement > tr?s invigorant pour moi. D?autre part il y a longtemps que de > circonstances fortuites ont voulu que nous ne puissions pas nous voir tr?s > souvent. Ainsi s?est tout naturellement que je me suis tourn? vers Larry le > po?te avec lequel j??tais plus familier : - le roman n?est pas mon fort et > je n?ai jamais attach? grande importan**ce ? Durrell le fonctionnaire > dont les dr?leries diplomatiques ont fait rire beaucoup de gens dans les > chancelleries. Ce n?est pas par puritanisme que je dis cela. Chacun a le > droit de s?amuser comme il peut mais j?appartiens ? une autre ?Private > Country?. Je tiens ? souligner le mot ?Private?. - Ath?nes 31 Mai 1970. > George Seferis. * > > > LD?s ?*dr?leries diplomatiques*? in Cyprus, were certainly childlike and > in last analysis much more harmless than the intrigues of Woodhouse in > Iran. On the other hand we cannot ignore that he served like Woodhouse > the interests of the collapsing British empire. Considering him a > *philhellene* whatever this word meant in the 1950s or can mean today is > ridiculous. If not for anything else because he defined himself ironically *philhellenese. > *Be it as it may it is offensive to his memory saying that he did what he > did it for money taken in an *Agon between heart and head *letting the > head always win. Like Woodhouse he was a fervid anticommunist and a devoted > Tory and he had no obligation whatever to serve Greece. > > > In conclusion, everybody has the right to amuse himself as he can and > Richard Pine to press the Mayor of Corfu to rename the ?Bosketto? in > ?Bosketto Durrell? or unveil bronze Bas Reliefs, paid by the multinational > Luis Group, to honor the philhellene LD in pathetic ceremonies framed by > young Corfiots in local costumes, reminiscing Byronic klephts. In another > point of his post, Richard Pine says ?*If to be British/English is to be > bad (in Greek terms) then there can be no philhellenes, hence no Byron*?. > Hence, no Mr. Pine I suppose. > > > P.Gerontopoulos > > > ------------------------------ > From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:32:39 -0700 > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Subject: [ilds] Durrell's endings > > > David, > > What you say is absolutely true. Still. This has been discussed before > years back, namely, Durrell?s tendency to conclude (not the right word?no > real conclusion) his fictions on a note of darkness or ambiguity. I?m > thinking of *Prospero?s Cell, Marine Venus, Bitter Lemons, Dark > Labyrinth,* *Justine,* and even *Quinx.* The move is from exterior to > interior. The lyric ?Bitter Lemons? illustrates this beautifully?an island > (indefinitely located) yields to reflections on some trauma (deliberately > hidden). A coda winds up a piece of art. It?s a summation. If the > subject of this poem is Eve Cohen and if she embodies the mental state of > ?biter lemons,? then the whole book (or some major part anyway) is really a > descant on Durrell?s troubled marriage and problems with women. My > interpretation, that is. > > Bruce > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:54 PM, Denise Tart & David Green < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > Yes, Bitter lemons, the poem, is a favourite. Tight, cryptic but evoktive. > Hard to know what saying but I agree that it is personal poem about loss, > loss of youth, loss of Eve and loss of beloved Greece. It was on Cyprus > that Larry and Eve's relationship irretrievably broke down. There were > black eyes and claw marks probably best left unsaid. Eve took Sappho away > with her. His beloved Greeks turned on him, Panos was shot and attempts > made on his life before he fled, never to live in Greece again. Tears > Unshed may refer to that deep emotional pain that will never fully heal. > Dunno - or perhaps something to do with true story never being able to be > told. Larry may have left Greece but Greece never left him. When he bought > the mazet near Nimes it was because the land there reminded him of Greece, > especially Corfu. > > David > > Sent from my iPad > > On 11 Apr 2016, at 1:35 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > > David, I think you're on point about Durrell's memoir, Bitter Lemons. > This is a good summation. But what do you think about the coda, the short > poem "Bitter Lemons?" I see a shift--from the political to the personal. > The hidden reference is to Eve and not, as you might expect, to the sadness > of the political situation. > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 9, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Denise Tart & David Green < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > 'Bitter Lemons' won the Duff Cooper prize in 1957 not because Lord Balfour > would have approved or because it 'whitewashed' British complicity and > folly in the Cyprus crisis, but because it is a fine book and, along with > Justine, one of Durrell's best. It is clear, concise, poetic and > energetically written with a well selected cast of characters who allow the > author to tell the unfolding tragedy from a range of perspectives (Greek, > Turkish, British) with wit, humour, wisdom, pathos and a sense of > inevitable impending doom; all this through an excellent story arc that > moves effortlessly from comedy to tragedy. As such it not a 'political > book' in the sense of being an in depth critique of British policy. > However, we are left in no doubt of the party line Durrell had to spruik, > often reluctantly. The British community is portrayed as inept, boorish and > insensitive to local feelings and culture. He shows that the British > decision to close the door on Enosis was a mistake and ! > > t! > > ha! > > t the Cyprus situation could not be kept as a colonial matter. Although > not a fan of Greek administration he is sympathetic to their cause, but > also represents the Turkish view and well as that of the administration. > > I have read Bitter Lemons several times and, given the balance of > perspectives that Durrell weaves through his narrative, find it > disingenuous to accuse Durrell of 'whitewashing' the British handling of > the crisis. To suggest this is to suggest a different book to one I read. > Durrell builds his story from the hint of menace in 'Voices at the Tavern > Door' to a 'Feast of Unreason' and then 'Vanishing Landmarks'. He is as > critical of British blindness and insensitivity as he is of the > nationalistic rhetoric pouring out of politicians in Athens and Ankara, > inflaming the local situation. The chapter 'Point of No Return' explores a > range of perspectives here. In his role as school teacher, civil servant > and inhabitant who could speak Greek and understood Greek culture and > history, he was well placed to see all sides and this comes through. > Durrell's pain, internal conflict and sadness are palpable; a Greek world > that he loved and in which he hoped to live falling apart as he 'a! > > c! > > hi! > > eves nothing'. > > It maybe he is too sentimental about the so called historic friendship > between Britain and Greece dating back to Byron's time, but we should > remember that Durrell had the best of his youth in Greece and if we are in > any doubt as to his views of the British administration, I shall leave you > with the words of his friend Richard Lumley: > > "And I can see him now (Durrell) sitting in the hall, fairly pissed one > evening, and the telephone goes and a long, increasingly angry > conversation. And this is one of the top in the administration. And Larry's > punchline I'll never forget - 'anyway, you're an inept cunt!' Howls of > laughter and he puts the receiver down." > > Needless to say, Durrell's days in the diplomatic corps were numbered. > > David > > > > > _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 00:45:16 2016 From: durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:45:16 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Please note the new address Message-ID: Hello, to the person in charge please, we are not receiving ILDS-group notices at this new address. Please can you change your record? Thank you Maria Vlachou Secretary Durrell Library of Corfu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Ric.Wilson at msn.com Thu Apr 14 01:01:38 2016 From: Ric.Wilson at msn.com (Ric Wilson) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:01:38 +0000 Subject: [ilds] 3. Re: Durrell's endings (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: PG--Did I miss something, who is Whitewine? It's hard to understand snippety replies with ad hominem undercurrents, "should have known long ago..." If you've a better understanding, it went right over my head. We're here in a forum designed to pique others' interest into a better understanding. Insults launched belabor dialogue and monopolize it as if there's no good breeding here. If you want a better understanding, then do not pretend, "as Richard Pine likes to believe" because that's clearly offensive in the same manner you've assigned a philhellene [LD?] as "ridiculous." [Now I've got to add yet another book to my Amazon list. Will I have time, Paniaiotis? My life is short.] Has becoming twisted into the shape of that one who first twisted a relevant axiom? Very heavy-handed, the tone of voice adopted, mocking even. I only know what I've seen/felt here. I wish you'd use your voice to show and tell and poise questions with as my better teachers did. Given your intro addressed to my sensibility, I'll throw in my $.02 for the dead under scrutiny now. You have vouched for the misfortune in Cyprus. If we grant, just for the moment, LD's BL was a "poetic book" after all, consider Bowen's take, "as in 'Dead Men,' the poet must choose to engage the horror of his experience as a away of living with that knowledge." (from his Many Histories Deep, 88) In "Many Histories Deep" The Personal Landscape Poets in Eqypt: 1940-45, Roger Bowen placed Keith Douglas' voice under his magnifying glass to project the poet's "use of language as a unique and temporary 'catch': 'But I keep words only a breath of time/turning in the lightest of cages--uncover/and let them go: sometimes they escape forever.' [see also where he's quoting from online @ http://thestoneandthestar.blogspot.com/2015/01/words-by-keith-douglas-turning-in.html ]" Remember "When the Music's Over" (you permitted me this personal bias in intro, right?)? [ http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=doors+music%27s+over&&view=detail&mid=A3BCDDDEB580E5C2917DA3BCDDDEB580E5C2917D&rvsmid=5FC1740990DF857A184A5FC1740990DF857A184A&fsscr=-1815&FORM=VDFSRV ] I know it's a couple decades + later, but we're hearing others' words pronounced in the interest of sensing an eternal recurrence, right? Bowen pointed out Douglas' "poem is worth quoting whole because for all its compact brilliance it is hardly commented on [canon-wise?], and because it represents Douglas writing an antiwar poem that, like certain of Spencer's or Durrell's poems, focuses on social rather than personal loss." With breath passing through us each like a ball and chain, another James exploited this realization on a perhaps more personal level: "When the music's over turn out the light..." ( http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/doors/whenthemusicsover.html ) I hope you see and hear his appeal as evidence to bolster our social construct, here, I mean. This requires we uphold gentilesse, I presume. -- Ric Wilson ________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:58:37 +0300 From: Panaiotis Gerontopoulos To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell's endings Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" A reader reads according his own sensibilities, cultural background and personal bias. Redwine agrees with Whitewine in describing ?Bitter Lemons? as a fine, clear, concise, poetic book. I do not have the ambition to argue or answer to the insults launched against my nullity for having pointed out facts that Redwine, Whitewine, Gifford and Richard Pine, should have known long ago as official exegetes of LD?s writings. The irony of the thing is that, far from being a slanderer of LD?s memory I think I have a better understanding of his misfortunes in Cyprus. To explain this, I have to recall another philhellene. In ?The Philhellenes? C. M. Woodhouse, parachuted on a Greek mountain during the World War II, observes that his philhellenism and that of his? British companions fighting the Nazis on the Greek mountains, had nothing in common with the philhellenes of the 1820s and their aspirations, for catholic emancipation, parliamentary reform, republicanism etc. Their motives ?were free of ideology?. After World War II, Woodhouse and many of his British mountain companions joined ?The Friends?, alias ?M16?, to fight communism. His personal involvement in creating the net of the operation ?BOOT-AIAX? aimed to topple Mohammad Mosaddegh is well known. It is also well known that, far from being directed against communism, that operation was directed against the nationalization of the ?Anglo Iranian Oil Company?. In ?Something Ventured? Woodhouse acknowledges its catastrophic consequences that brought-back in power in Iran first the Shah and then, in 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini. He justifies his actions as follows: [?] What we did not foresee was that the Shah would gather new strength and use it so tyrannically, nor that the US government and the Foreign Office would fail so abjectly to keep him on a reasonable course. At that time, we were simply relieved that the threat to British interests had been removed. Sic et simpliciter. The consequences of this and other operations of the same kind are before our eyes in every day?s newspapers. The parallel between Mosaddegh and Makarios (the black-Mac as LD called him privately) and the resemblance of the M16 methods in defense of British interests in Iran and Cyprus, evoking in first place the communist threat is also striking. In January 1953, LD descended in ordered mission to Cyprus to defend the British interests evoking the communist threat, mixing sex to the political propaganda of the CBS, and trying to lull the ?Enotist feeling? by advertising in all directions his philhellenism and his ties with the Greek intellectuals of the ?Generation of the 30s?. They were fast to take distances from their former friend. Not because they were Greeks or Cypriots, as Richard Pine likes to believe, but to put it with George Seferis, in the last words of one of his last texts, written directly in French, at the request of Frederic Temple director of ?Entretiens?, for a special issue dedicated to LD with the English title ?Many Nightingales ago? But I belong to another ?private country and I would like to emphasize the word ?private? (LABRYS 5, LAWRENCE DURRELL July 1979) The Durrellian Temple published in ?Entretiens? two years after Seferis? death, a censored version of the original manipulating it so to hide the fact that, notwithstanding his deep human sympathy for Larry, in 1970 Seferis considered him a former friend (an ancient ami). To avoid misunderstandings I transcribe in French the last paragraph of the original conserved in Seferis? Archives of Gennadios Library of Athens, resounding Seferis thoughts on LD?s propaganda tactics in Cyprus unmistakably revealed in Bitter Lemons Je disais tout ? l?heure que ce soit le pass? qui m?ait dict? ces lignes. Le pr?sent - que l?on me passe l?anglicisme - n?est pas malheureusement tr?s invigorant pour moi. D?autre part il y a longtemps que de circonstances fortuites ont voulu que nous ne puissions pas nous voir tr?s souvent. Ainsi s?est tout naturellement que je me suis tourn? vers Larry le po?te avec lequel j??tais plus familier : - le roman n?est pas mon fort et je n?ai jamais attach? grande importance ? Durrell le fonctionnaire dont les dr?leries diplomatiques ont fait rire beaucoup de gens dans les chancelleries. Ce n?est pas par puritanisme que je dis cela. Chacun a le droit de s?amuser comme il peut mais j?appartiens ? une autre ?Private Country?. Je tiens ? souligner le mot ?Private?. - Ath?nes 31 Mai 1970. George Seferis. LD?s ?dr?leries diplomatiques? in Cyprus, were certainly childlike and in last analysis much more harmless than the intrigues of Woodhouse in Iran. On the other hand we cannot ignore that he served like Woodhouse the interests of the collapsing British empire. Considering him a philhellene whatever this word meant in the 1950s or can mean today is ridiculous. If not for anything else because he defined himself ironically philhellenese. Be it as it may it is offensive to his memory saying that he did what he did it for money taken in an Agon between heart and head letting the head always win. Like Woodhouse he was a fervid anticommunist and a devoted Tory and he had no obligation whatever to serve Greece. In conclusion, everybody has the right to amuse himself as he can and Richard Pine to press the Mayor of Corfu to rename the ?Bosketto? in ?Bosketto Durrell? or unveil bronze Bas Reliefs, paid by the multinational Luis Group, to honor the philhellene LD in pathetic ceremonies framed by young Corfiots in local costumes, reminiscing Byronic klephts. In another point of his post, Richard Pine says ?If to be British/English is to be bad (in Greek terms) then there can be no philhellenes, hence no Byron?. Hence, no Mr. Pine I suppose. P.Gerontopoulos From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Apr 14 11:53:28 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:53:28 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons v. Tunc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Apr 14, 2016, at 1:01 AM, Ric Wilson wrote: > > > We're here in a forum designed to pique others' interest into a better understanding. Insults launched belabor dialogue and monopolize it as if there's no good breeding here. If you want a better understanding, then do not pretend, "as Richard Pine likes to believe" because that's clearly offensive in the same manner you've assigned a philhellene [LD?] as "ridiculous." [Now I've got to add yet another book to my Amazon list. Will I have time, Paniaiotis? My life is short.] Has becoming twisted into the shape of that one who first twisted a relevant axiom? Very heavy-handed, the tone of voice adopted, mocking even. I only know what I've seen/felt here. I wish you'd use your voice to show and tell and poise questions with as my better teachers did. > Agreed. We should all strive for civility. Given the continued interest in Bitter Lemons, I still recommend putting that provocative book at the top of a reading list for further discussion. I realize, however, that the ILDS listserv began a discussion of that book in 2008 (?), which, unfortunately, ended after only a few exchanges. So maybe BL is not the best choice, in which case I support Peter Baldwin?s recommendation of Tunc as an alternative. Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.w.collins at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 12:22:18 2016 From: robin.w.collins at gmail.com (Robin Collins) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:22:18 -0400 Subject: [ilds] discussions Message-ID: All I was just starting to enjoy the rants and raves, and now someone is leaving the list, alas. Other than the ad hominems aimed at list members, it seems to me all critiques are fair game if directed at the texts (quality or interpretations) or at the author(s) and author motivations. I've learned at lot (and was fascinated) by the range of views regarding L Durrell and Bitter Lemons (there's an excellent piece in the Deus Loci I received in the mail the other day, same subject that others must have read.) Compared to some listservs I'm on, the level of invective here is admirably tame. Onwards! Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 12:32:56 2016 From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:32:56 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons v. Tunc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: May I suggest Monsieur or The Prince of Darkness? It melds many of Durrell's favorite places including his beloved France, and Egypt, described in some of his most beautiful prose/poetry - but harnessed to the fictional framework-in-progress of his final great novel cycle the AQII. Which is problematic to say the least, and well worth discussing in my opinion. Thanks in advance for your consideration - Ken On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > On Apr 14, 2016, at 1:01 AM, Ric Wilson wrote: > > > We're here in a forum designed to pique others' interest into a better > understanding. Insults launched belabor dialogue and monopolize it as if > there's no good breeding here. If you want a better understanding, then do > not pretend, "as Richard Pine likes to believe" because that's clearly > offensive in the same manner you've assigned a philhellene [LD?] as > "ridiculous." [Now I've got to add yet another book to my Amazon list. Will > I have time, Paniaiotis? My life is short.] Has becoming twisted into the > shape of that one who first twisted a relevant axiom? Very heavy-handed, > the tone of voice adopted, mocking even. I only know what I've seen/felt > here. I wish you'd use your voice to show and tell and poise questions with > as my better teachers did. > > > > Agreed. We should all strive for civility. Given the continued interest > in *Bitter Lemons,* I still recommend putting that provocative book at > the top of a reading list for further discussion. I realize, however, that > the ILDS listserv began a discussion of that book in 2008 (?), which, > unfortunately, ended after only a few exchanges. So maybe *BL* is not > the best choice, in which case I support Peter Baldwin?s recommendation of > *Tunc* as an alternative. > > Bruce > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Apr 14 13:16:24 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:16:24 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons v. Tunc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another excellent choice. Bruce > On Apr 14, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote: > > May I suggest Monsieur or The Prince of Darkness? > > It melds many of Durrell's favorite places including his beloved France, and Egypt, described in some of his most beautiful prose/poetry - but harnessed to the fictional framework-in-progress of his final great novel cycle the AQII. Which is problematic to say the least, and well worth discussing in my opinion. > > Thanks in advance for your consideration - Ken > From dtart at bigpond.net.au Thu Apr 14 14:08:21 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 07:08:21 +1000 Subject: [ilds] . Whitewine. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mr. Wilson Whitewine is the listserve pen name, if you like, of David Green, school teacher, poet, ratbag and Durrell enthusiast whose medically inexplicable consumption of Australian Chardonnay has caused scientific investigation. Given that we already had the illustrious Bruce Redwine, David Whitewine seemed the logical accompaniment as it were. Anyway Whitewine goes well with seafood and was much liked by Lawrence Durrell, not to mention his brother Gerald, in whom it largely replaced his circulation of blood. I live in Sydney Australia and have been contributing to the list, for better or for worse, since about 2007. So I am the Whitewine that mr gerontopoulos lovingly referred to. David Whitewine Sent from my iPad > On 14 Apr 2016, at 6:01 PM, Ric Wilson wrote: > > PG--Did I miss something, who is Whitewine? It's hard to understand snippety replies with ad hominem undercurrents, "should have known long ago..." If you've a better understanding, it went right over my head. > > We're here in a forum designed to pique others' interest into a better understanding. Insults launched belabor dialogue and monopolize it as if there's no good breeding here. If you want a better understanding, then do not pretend, "as Richard Pine likes to believe" because that's clearly offensive in the same manner you've assigned a philhellene [LD?] as "ridiculous." [Now I've got to add yet another book to my Amazon list. Will I have time, Paniaiotis? My life is short.] Has becoming twisted into the shape of that one who first twisted a relevant axiom? Very heavy-handed, the tone of voice adopted, mocking even. I only know what I've seen/felt here. I wish you'd use your voice to show and tell and poise questions with as my better teachers did. > > Given your intro addressed to my sensibility, I'll throw in my $.02 for the dead under scrutiny now. You have vouched for the misfortune in Cyprus. If we grant, just for the moment, LD's BL was a "poetic book" after all, consider Bowen's take, "as in 'Dead Men,' the poet must choose to engage the horror of his experience as a away of living with that knowledge." (from his Many Histories Deep, 88) In "Many Histories Deep" The Personal Landscape Poets in Eqypt: 1940-45, Roger Bowen placed Keith Douglas' voice under his magnifying glass to project the poet's "use of language as a unique and temporary 'catch': 'But I keep words only a breath of time/turning in the lightest of cages--uncover/and let them go: sometimes they escape forever.' [see also where he's quoting from online @ http://thestoneandthestar.blogspot.com/2015/01/words-by-keith-douglas-turning-in.html ]" > > Remember "When the Music's Over" (you permitted me this personal bias in intro, right?)? [ http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=doors+music%27s+over&&view=detail&mid=A3BCDDDEB580E5C2917DA3BCDDDEB580E5C2917D&rvsmid=5FC1740990DF857A184A5FC1740990DF857A184A&fsscr=-1815&FORM=VDFSRV ] I know it's a couple decades + later, but we're hearing others' words pronounced in the interest of sensing an eternal recurrence, right? Bowen pointed out Douglas' "poem is worth quoting whole because for all its compact brilliance it is hardly commented on [canon-wise?], and because it represents Douglas writing an antiwar poem that, like certain of Spencer's or Durrell's poems, focuses on social rather than personal loss." With breath passing through us each like a ball and chain, another James exploited this realization on a perhaps more personal level: "When the music's over turn out the light..." ( http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/doors/whenthemusicsover.html ) I hope you see and hear his appeal! > as evidence to bolster our social construct, here, I mean. This requires we uphold gentilesse, I presume. -- > > Ric Wilson > > ________________________________________ > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:58:37 +0300 > From: Panaiotis Gerontopoulos > To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell's endings > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > A reader reads > according his own sensibilities, cultural background and personal bias. Redwine > agrees with Whitewine in describing ?Bitter Lemons? as a fine, clear, concise, > poetic book. I do not have the ambition to argue or answer to the insults launched > against my nullity for having pointed out facts that Redwine, Whitewine, > Gifford and Richard Pine, should have known long ago as official exegetes > of LD?s writings. > From dtart at bigpond.net.au Thu Apr 14 14:19:25 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 07:19:25 +1000 Subject: [ilds] discussions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Robin, I could not agree more with your sentiments. Compared to some past exchanges, the recent banter has been relatively civilised, and should remain so. However, there has a tendency to use the listserve as means to attack other people, rather than as a forum to discuss the life and works of Lawrence Durrell, which is not to say that robust debate should not take place. It just depends on whether you prefer a tennis match to a game of rugby. David Whitewine (ex cricketer) Sent from my iPad > On 15 Apr 2016, at 5:22 AM, Robin Collins wrote: > > All > > I was just starting to enjoy the rants and raves, and now someone is leaving the list, alas. > Other than the ad hominems aimed at list members, it seems to me all critiques are fair game if directed at the texts (quality or interpretations) or at the author(s) and author motivations. > > I've learned at lot (and was fascinated) by the range of views regarding L Durrell and Bitter Lemons (there's an excellent piece in the Deus Loci I received in the mail the other day, same subject that others must have read.) > > Compared to some listservs I'm on, the level of invective here is admirably tame. Onwards! > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sat Apr 16 21:53:21 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:53:21 +1000 Subject: [ilds] And Then, next? Message-ID: <422E23A1-6ACB-4C27-ABBE-BF5B16FA2F77@bigpond.net.au> Mr Gerontopoulos, you are clearly more than a grocer. You are a man of perspicacity with some obvious knowledge of the Cyprus Crisis and other related issues which the general reader of Durrell's works and his biographies may not be aware, so thanks for sharing. But before we leave Cyprus, I suggest that sometimes an outsider may see things more clearly than the locals do, even if employed by an unpopular imperial administration. Having said that, it occurs to me that Bitter Lemons would make a good film, especially with the current focus on the Middle East. It has great ingredience: Knowledgeable protagonist, comic to tragic story arc, a hint of early menace and rising tension, fab Med locations, visceral politics, wide cast of characters, violence, terrorism, drinking, revolutionary school girls. As we know, Larry loved cinema. and this book particularly lends itself to film treatment - clear, well written, contained, a good longish short story. but who would would fund or make it these days? Now, moving onto Tunc. It is decicated to Claude Marie Vincendon and published a year after her death. Felix Charlock, surely a adaption of Shylock, the Happy Jew is drunk on page one. there is a loose rambling style, not much dialaogue. Durrell own thoughts on this book need discussion: "Tunc is roughly about what it is about (profound); the reader makes it up as he goes along (for sure), if he goes along with it at all, that is (not sure yet). If it is what it set up to be it will be building its reader as it unrolls through him (yep). Is there any reason why we should care for this sort of thing? Well, it is an attempt to discuss human cultrure - not of any special epoch, but as the quiddity of the idea of culture - in the shadow play terms of the novel (Durrell as alchemist) This makes it the strangest sort of book. Tunc does not pretend to pretend (?) All the characters are as real as they make you and die happily ever after lie readers and writers do (compare this to comments on Prospero's Cell, the Quartet). what more can one ask??" Take it on. David Whitewine. Sent from my iPad From delospeter at hotmail.com Sun Apr 17 00:04:53 2016 From: delospeter at hotmail.com (PETER BALDWIN) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:04:53 +0100 Subject: [ilds] And Then, next? In-Reply-To: <422E23A1-6ACB-4C27-ABBE-BF5B16FA2F77@bigpond.net.au> References: <422E23A1-6ACB-4C27-ABBE-BF5B16FA2F77@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: Tunc? - here goes. Charlock is the 'thinking weed' (p11 in the single Revolt ed) but I would be interested in the possibility of the homophonic resonance with Shylock. But the puzzles start on the cover - the title - an anagram - which came first, Petronius or D looking for a respectable source for the anagram? Then the symbol on p(7) :) is the nearest approximation I can type here. Then the heady quote from Dost? At this novel I started my love of D - endlessly enthralling It worked for me because, at that first reading (c 1975), I became my own participant in the fabulation of the novel (' I brought introspection to a fine art' p 12) Peter Sent from my iPhone > On 17 Apr 2016, at 05:59, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Mr Gerontopoulos, you are clearly more than a grocer. You are a man of perspicacity with some obvious knowledge of the Cyprus Crisis and other related issues which the general reader of Durrell's works and his biographies may not be aware, so thanks for sharing. But before we leave Cyprus, I suggest that sometimes an outsider may see things more clearly than the locals do, even if employed by an unpopular imperial administration. > > Having said that, it occurs to me that Bitter Lemons would make a good film, especially with the current focus on the Middle East. It has great ingredience: > > Knowledgeable protagonist, comic to tragic story arc, a hint of early menace and rising tension, fab Med locations, visceral politics, wide cast of characters, violence, terrorism, drinking, revolutionary school girls. > > As we know, Larry loved cinema. and this book particularly lends itself to film treatment - clear, well written, contained, a good longish short story. but who would would fund or make it these days? > > Now, moving onto Tunc. It is decicated to Claude Marie Vincendon and published a year after her death. Felix Charlock, surely a adaption of Shylock, the Happy Jew is drunk on page one. there is a loose rambling style, not much dialaogue. Durrell own thoughts on this book need discussion: > > "Tunc is roughly about what it is about (profound); the reader makes it up as he goes along (for sure), if he goes along with it at all, that is (not sure yet). If it is what it set up to be it will be building its reader as it unrolls through him (yep). Is there any reason why we should care for this sort of thing? Well, it is an attempt to discuss human cultrure - not of any special epoch, but as the quiddity of the idea of culture - in the shadow play terms of the novel (Durrell as alchemist) This makes it the strangest sort of book. Tunc does not pretend to pretend (?) All the characters are as real as they make you and die happily ever after lie readers and writers do (compare this to comments on Prospero's Cell, the Quartet). what more can one ask??" > > Take it on. > > David Whitewine. > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Apr 17 08:31:28 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:31:28 -0700 Subject: [ilds] And Then, next? In-Reply-To: References: <422E23A1-6ACB-4C27-ABBE-BF5B16FA2F77@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: So, I'll have to start reading Tunc. My first attempts failed, probably because I expected another Quartet. My edition: New York: Dutton, 1968. Durrell was always trying to do something new. This is something to consider from the beginning. What motivated this? Modernism? Why the restlessness? Bruce Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 17, 2016, at 12:04 AM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: > > Tunc? - here goes. > > Charlock is the 'thinking weed' (p11 in the single Revolt ed) but I would be interested in the possibility of the homophonic resonance with Shylock. > > But the puzzles start on the cover - the title - an anagram - which came first, Petronius or D looking for a respectable source for the anagram? > > Then the symbol on p(7) :) is the nearest approximation I can type here. > > Then the heady quote from Dost? > > At this novel I started my love of D - endlessly enthralling > > It worked for me because, at that first reading (c 1975), I became my own participant in the fabulation of the novel (' I brought introspection to a fine art' p 12) > > Peter > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 17 Apr 2016, at 05:59, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >> Mr Gerontopoulos, you are clearly more than a grocer. You are a man of perspicacity with some obvious knowledge of the Cyprus Crisis and other related issues which the general reader of Durrell's works and his biographies may not be aware, so thanks for sharing. But before we leave Cyprus, I suggest that sometimes an outsider may see things more clearly than the locals do, even if employed by an unpopular imperial administration. >> >> Having said that, it occurs to me that Bitter Lemons would make a good film, especially with the current focus on the Middle East. It has great ingredience: >> >> Knowledgeable protagonist, comic to tragic story arc, a hint of early menace and rising tension, fab Med locations, visceral politics, wide cast of characters, violence, terrorism, drinking, revolutionary school girls. >> >> As we know, Larry loved cinema. and this book particularly lends itself to film treatment - clear, well written, contained, a good longish short story. but who would would fund or make it these days? >> >> Now, moving onto Tunc. It is decicated to Claude Marie Vincendon and published a year after her death. Felix Charlock, surely a adaption of Shylock, the Happy Jew is drunk on page one. there is a loose rambling style, not much dialaogue. Durrell own thoughts on this book need discussion: >> >> "Tunc is roughly about what it is about (profound); the reader makes it up as he goes along (for sure), if he goes along with it at all, that is (not sure yet). If it is what it set up to be it will be building its reader as it unrolls through him (yep). Is there any reason why we should care for this sort of thing? Well, it is an attempt to discuss human cultrure - not of any special epoch, but as the quiddity of the idea of culture - in the shadow play terms of the novel (Durrell as alchemist) This makes it the strangest sort of book. Tunc does not pretend to pretend (?) All the characters are as real as they make you and die happily ever after lie readers and writers do (compare this to comments on Prospero's Cell, the Quartet). what more can one ask??" >> >> Take it on. >> >> David Whitewine From durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 09:24:48 2016 From: durrelllibrarycorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 19:24:48 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Please register our new address! Message-ID: Dear Sirs We are not receiving news from the ILDS group at our new address. Do I ask the proper person in the organisation to send us the messages here? Thank you Maria Vlachou Secretary Durrell Library of Corfu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 13:36:02 2016 From: bredwine1968 at gmail.com (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:36:02 -0700 Subject: [ilds] And Then, next? In-Reply-To: References: <422E23A1-6ACB-4C27-ABBE-BF5B16FA2F77@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: Some comments to Baldwin?s commentary. Good start. BR > On Apr 17, 2016, at 12:04 AM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: > > Tunc? - here goes. > > Charlock is the ?thinking weed' (p11 in the single Revolt ed) but I would be interested in the possibility of the homophonic resonance with Shylock. Another possibility: a pun on the obvious Sherlock, as in Sherlock Holmes, the ultimate rationalist, followed by E. A. Poe, another investigator, and textual references to the latter?s famous ?raven?: ?ravens of ill omen in an oak tree? (14). Why? The narrator is a ?thinking weed? (13), a detective of sorts. Sherlock Holmes represents the ratiocinative spirit, which ?Felix Charlock,? Happy or Lucky Charlock, may embody or satirize. In the first page and epigraph, we already have references to ?speech? (the logos?) as some kind of particle physics and possible quantum mechanics. Both of which overthrown the rationality of Newtonian mechanics. The Dostoevsky epigraph is from, I believe, the French translation of Notes from Underground; the quotation is also anti-rationality. Why not the English translation? Durrell loves obscurity and probably counts on his English speaking audience knowing little French. > > But the puzzles start on the cover - the title - an anagram - which came first, Petronius or D looking for a respectable source for the anagram? Probably the latter. > > Then the symbol on p(7) :) is the nearest approximation I can type here. I hadn?t noticed this. Thanks. It looks to me like an Egyptian glyph, possibly the crescent moon with a dot beneath. I don?t read ancient Egyptian, so I?ve no idea of the significance. Maybe Merrianne Timko knows. I guess it has something to do with Claude. I wouldn?t be surprised were it obscene. > > Then the heady quote from Dost? Yes. See above. > > At this novel I started my love of D - endlessly enthralling > > It worked for me because, at that first reading (c 1975), I became my own participant in the fabulation of the novel (' I brought introspection to a fine art' p 12) > > Peter > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From delospeter at hotmail.com Sun Apr 17 20:18:45 2016 From: delospeter at hotmail.com (PETER BALDWIN) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 04:18:45 +0100 Subject: [ilds] And Then, next? In-Reply-To: References: <422E23A1-6ACB-4C27-ABBE-BF5B16FA2F77@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: I cannot support the idea of Charlock the 'detective' qua Sherlock, although I agree that Charlock (an 'inventor' not a 'detective') stands to reject the rational for the sake of the more dangerous intuitive, but is that not what the Heraldic Universe called upon us to do? Troubled by the use in this exchange of the term 'pun', my Oxford Dict of Lit Terms guides me to the better term, I suggest, - polysemy - the capacity to carry several meanings. Here, for those better equipped to deal with the semotic aspects of this novel might discuss the metaphorical reading of the (deliberate) confusion in these names ( Charlock etc ) . A Ricoeur reading? My own take on the Dost quote is the proposal by D that logic (2x2) cannot provide a resolution. For that you must look elsewhere and this D tries to make us do Alongside these thoughts, I am dipping into Pine's excellent 'The Mindscape' with its helpful guide to the genesis of Tunc (chap 19 passim) Peter Sent from my iPhone > On 17 Apr 2016, at 21:58, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > Some comments to Baldwin?s commentary. Good start. > > BR > > >> On Apr 17, 2016, at 12:04 AM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: >> >> Tunc? - here goes. >> >> Charlock is the ?thinking weed' (p11 in the single Revolt ed) but I would be interested in the possibility of the homophonic resonance with Shylock. > > Another possibility: a pun on the obvious Sherlock, as in Sherlock Holmes, the ultimate rationalist, followed by E. A. Poe, another investigator, and textual references to the latter?s famous ?raven?: ?ravens of ill omen in an oak tree? (14). Why? The narrator is a ?thinking weed? (13), a detective of sorts. Sherlock Holmes represents the ratiocinative spirit, which ?Felix Charlock,? Happy or Lucky Charlock, may embody or satirize. In the first page and epigraph, we already have references to ?speech? (the logos?) as some kind of particle physics and possible quantum mechanics. Both of which overthrown the rationality of Newtonian mechanics. The Dostoevsky epigraph is from, I believe, the French translation of Notes from Underground; the quotation is also anti-rationality. Why not the English translation? Durrell loves obscurity and probably counts on his English speaking audience knowing little French. >> >> But the puzzles start on the cover - the title - an anagram - which came first, Petronius or D looking for a respectable source for the anagram? > > Probably the latter. >> >> Then the symbol on p(7) :) is the nearest approximation I can type here. > > I hadn?t noticed this. Thanks. It looks to me like an Egyptian glyph, possibly the crescent moon with a dot beneath. I don?t read ancient Egyptian, so I?ve no idea of the significance. Maybe Merrianne Timko knows. I guess it has something to do with Claude. I wouldn?t be surprised were it obscene. >> >> Then the heady quote from Dost? > > Yes. See above. >> >> At this novel I started my love of D - endlessly enthralling >> >> It worked for me because, at that first reading (c 1975), I became my own participant in the fabulation of the novel (' I brought introspection to a fine art' p 12) >> >> Peter > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sun Apr 17 21:30:05 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:30:05 +1000 Subject: [ilds] C'est in mur Message-ID: <820CDB0C-AE7E-4FAA-984A-34DB1CBD71DA@bigpond.net.au> Deux fois deux quatre, C'est un mur Two times two is four, it's a wall. Logic/maths is a barrier? Think outside the box? David Sent from my iPad From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Apr 17 22:14:39 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 22:14:39 -0700 Subject: [ilds] And Then, next? In-Reply-To: References: <422E23A1-6ACB-4C27-ABBE-BF5B16FA2F77@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: A pun by definition is a play on words, a homophone, and Charlock plays on Sherlock quite easily, obviously so. Shylock, Shakespeare's I take it, is interesting but seems irrelevant to the opening and the variations on irrationality ("Reality is what is most conspicuous by its absence.") Yes, the Heraldic Universe rejects rationality or causation. No doubt most or all of these characters' names have special significance, as throughout the oeuvre. What's the difference between Dostoevsky on irrationality (the rejection of 2 + 2 = 4) and logic not "providing a resolution?" I don't see any. More should be made of the dedication to Claude Vincendon, who died on 1 January 1967, and the symbol above her name, the lunette with a dot. It must have some special significance for Durrell. As long as we're playing with the title's anagram, the lunette reminds me of the significance of "rosebud" in Well's Citizen Kane. Great writers (and directors) do this kind of thing, as Joyce did with the dot in Ulysses. Bruce Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 17, 2016, at 8:18 PM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: > > I cannot support the idea of Charlock the 'detective' qua Sherlock, although I agree that Charlock (an 'inventor' not a 'detective') stands to reject the rational for the sake of the more dangerous intuitive, but is that not what the Heraldic Universe called upon us to do? > > Troubled by the use in this exchange of the term 'pun', my Oxford Dict of Lit Terms guides me to the better term, I suggest, - polysemy - the capacity to carry several meanings. Here, for those better equipped to deal with the semotic aspects of this novel might discuss the metaphorical reading of the (deliberate) confusion in these names ( Charlock etc ) . A Ricoeur reading? > > My own take on the Dost quote is the proposal by D that logic (2x2) cannot provide a resolution. For that you must look elsewhere and this D tries to make us do > > Alongside these thoughts, I am dipping into Pine's excellent 'The Mindscape' with its helpful guide to the genesis of Tunc (chap 19 passim) > > Peter > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 17 Apr 2016, at 21:58, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> >> Some comments to Baldwin?s commentary. Good start. >> >> BR >> >> >>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 12:04 AM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: >>> >>> Tunc? - here goes. >>> >>> Charlock is the ?thinking weed' (p11 in the single Revolt ed) but I would be interested in the possibility of the homophonic resonance with Shylock. >> >> Another possibility: a pun on the obvious Sherlock, as in Sherlock Holmes, the ultimate rationalist, followed by E. A. Poe, another investigator, and textual references to the latter?s famous ?raven?: ?ravens of ill omen in an oak tree? (14). Why? The narrator is a ?thinking weed? (13), a detective of sorts. Sherlock Holmes represents the ratiocinative spirit, which ?Felix Charlock,? Happy or Lucky Charlock, may embody or satirize. In the first page and epigraph, we already have references to ?speech? (the logos?) as some kind of particle physics and possible quantum mechanics. Both of which overthrown the rationality of Newtonian mechanics. The Dostoevsky epigraph is from, I believe, the French translation of Notes from Underground; the quotation is also anti-rationality. Why not the English translation? Durrell loves obscurity and probably counts on his English speaking audience knowing little French. >>> >>> But the puzzles start on the cover - the title - an anagram - which came first, Petronius or D looking for a respectable source for the anagram? >> >> Probably the latter. >>> >>> Then the symbol on p(7) :) is the nearest approximation I can type here. >> >> I hadn?t noticed this. Thanks. It looks to me like an Egyptian glyph, possibly the crescent moon with a dot beneath. I don?t read ancient Egyptian, so I?ve no idea of the significance. Maybe Merrianne Timko knows. I guess it has something to do with Claude. I wouldn?t be surprised were it obscene. >>> >>> Then the heady quote from Dost? >> >> Yes. See above. >>> >>> At this novel I started my love of D - endlessly enthralling >>> >>> It worked for me because, at that first reading (c 1975), I became my own participant in the fabulation of the novel (' I brought introspection to a fine art' p 12) >>> >>> Peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: