From pan.gero at hotmail.com Mon Mar 28 11:45:13 2016 From: pan.gero at hotmail.com (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 21:45:13 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Mr. Esposito In-Reply-To: <75E74CB0-0481-41E1-8B8B-21F86603D629@bigpond.net.au> References: , , , , , <708A2934-3873-437D-870C-127AB2964FF0@earthlink.net>, , , , , <75E74CB0-0481-41E1-8B8B-21F86603D629@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. Panayotis Gerontopoulos From: dtart at bigpond.net.au Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 07:55:35 +1100 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. David Whitewine Sent from my iPad On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:16 AM, Frederick Schoff wrote: This matches my own experience. I found my literature classes in college stultifying. I would show up with enthusiasm after reading, say, Faulkner or Woolf, and left wondering 'What book(s) did these people read?'. They were too busy talking about various references (presumably to show their erudition) to discuss the actual book. I was only bored, and bid adieu to lit classes. One reason I like Durrell so much is that he seems unique. On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:17 AM, james Esposito wrote: What teacher employs a 'method'? My view of teaching literature does not amount to a 'method'! It is a way of looking at texts without recourse to the opinions and aesthetic perceptions of any except the teacher and his/her students. I do not argue with the view that a text can be explicated, teased out, probed, but it is like a mine - you delve in to extract whatever ore you can discover, not what a mineralogist tells you to discover. A good teacher shows you the way - hands you a drill, even a stick of dynamite! but essentially the relationship is you and the text. When - many years ago! - I was a student our teacher presented us with Eliot's The Waste Land and pointed us towards Jessie Weston's "From Ritual to Romance" - why? because Eliot makes specific reference to her work, and suddenly a whole world of the Grail Quest, the meaning of the Waste Land and the Fisher King, was opened up to us. But Weston was an integral part of the poem, not an external aid to comprehension. We needed nothing other than what was on the page and what stood behind the page. That same teacher offered us what he referred to as 'a medieval maxim','Man by the exercise of his free will fulfils the pattern of his destiny'. I have spent sixty years trying to find the source of that, and failing, but I never cease to bless the man who provided it. (Does anyone know its source?) Of course we need to discuss what is 'meant' by the text. Keats's (and I refer to the author of 'Ode to a Nightingale', not Durrell's character!) 'beauty is truth, truth beauty...' could occupy a reader delightfully for a lifetime and never yield its meaning, but no amount of help from Messieurs Derrida or Ricoeur can make an iota of difference to our own judgement. I think many critics suffer from a lack of an ability to make judgements of their own, and fall back vicariously on sources like les messieurs (for whom I do have considerable respect) rather than make the big jump towards shaping their own innate aesthetic. James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: I don't think your method will result in much enlightenment. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:08 AM, james Esposito wrote: I am very sorry indeed to learn that you disagree with the following statement: "Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world." James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: This whole approach seems to me a grossly oversimplified approach to the appreciation and teaching of literature, which after all is not some exercise in logical positivism. Words are tricky and not reducible to pat meanings, and how writers use words is even far more complex. So I disagree with all your statements. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Mar 25, 2016, at 1:58 AM, james Esposito wrote: By 'teaching their students how to enjoy texts' I meant that I see the principal purpose of teaching as the widening of students' appreciation of their chosen subject, be it literature, science or any other discipline. Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world. That may seem very old-fashioned but I think such purposes are diminished by what Keats called (paraphrase) unnecessary reaching out for reason - that is, the searching for explanations of what, ultimately, cannot be explained - credo quia absurdum. We owe it to ourselves and others (we, being teachers, writers and readers) to focus primarily on what the texts say, not what they don't say, or what a critic may think they say. James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: I wonder what it means ?to enjoy texts?? Isn?t that what we?re doing? I think James Gifford is on target. And I, a non-academic, thank him for his insights, which increase my enjoyment. Keep it up, James! Bruce > On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:32 PM, james Esposito wrote: > > I perhaps did not make myself clear on the subject of Durrell's relationship to the modernists. Of course he was well aware of the Eliots, Huxleys, etc, but what I meant was that we should not necessarily assume 'the anxiety of influence' - the fact that there are echoes of Eliot etc in Durrell's work does not allow us to infer that he deliberately set out to imitate them or to make obvious references to them - merely that, as a (still) apprentice writer in the first 2 novels he was setting out his own stall, not theirs. > And as for Keats, if I remember correctly, he got killed. > As for the mud bricks, I think it's completely far-fetched to read political persuasions into the fact that Durrell referred to a basic building material. They were just mud-bricks, not political slogans. > I think there is far too much time and effort spent on trying to analyse what Durrell may or may not have ingested into his writer's subconscious. It may be an amusing pastime for academics, but they should be teaching their students how to enjoy texts and not how to tear them apart. It isn't 'hunting of the snark' territory. > James Esposito > > _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Ric.Wilson at msn.com Mon Mar 28 12:27:36 2016 From: Ric.Wilson at msn.com (Ric Wilson) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:27:36 +0000 Subject: [ilds] Message 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found ilds tracing BitterLemons referents online from circa 2007. It contained Haag and some other British dignitary from Church circles trading words. That was so duelish! I agree with consensus about taking criticism of academics with sensitivity. In electronic (aka asynchronous) forums, it's very easy to put stuff out there off the cuff on impulse. A Carol Peirce (sp?) mollified my perhaps out-of-place use of the word "useless" earlier. It's too easy to look back on a writer's context with coulda-woulda-shouldas. Members in places like this have very distinct viewpoints. I was exposed in my formal learning through what I called merciful acts of certain facult, but Skordili in the context of her paper used "merciless" [vigilance] --- that's a game-changer. They [collectively] were able to see through my "solipsistic and egocentric" core while remaining steady and countering with provocative off-the-cuff suggestions that put a wrench into my suppositions. I suppose LD's voice maintains that emotional distance while toying with his audience's presuppositions. In BitterLemons, I think his own presuppositions re: Queen & Country encountered a meltdown. He seemed to be following backward the iron chains of memory but with an appeal that would not be heard--except by the folks here! Ric Wilson ________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 21:45:13 +0300 From: Panaiotis Gerontopoulos To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. Panayotis Gerontopoulos From: dtart at bigpond.net.au Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 07:55:35 +1100 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he! did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. David Whitewine Sent from my iPad On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:16 AM, Frederick Schoff wrote: This matches my own experience. I found my literature classes in college stultifying. I would show up with enthusiasm after reading, say, Faulkner or Woolf, and left wondering 'What book(s) did these people read?'. They were too busy talking about various references (presumably to show their erudition) to discuss the actual book. I was only bored, and bid adieu to lit classes. One reason I like Durrell so much is that he seems unique. On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:17 AM, james Esposito wrote: What teacher employs a 'method'? My view of teaching literature does not amount to a 'method'! It is a way of looking at texts without recourse to the opinions and aesthetic perceptions of any except the teacher and his/her students. I do not argue with the view that a text can be explicated, teased out, probed, but it is like a mine - you delve in to extract whatever ore you can discover, not what a mineralogist tells you to discover. A good teacher shows you the way - hands you a drill, even a stick of dynamite! but essentially the relationship is you and the text. When - many years ago! - I was a student our teacher presented us with Eliot's The Waste Land and pointed us towards Jessie Weston's "From Ritual to Romance" - why? because Eliot makes specific reference to her work, and suddenly a whole world of the Grail Quest, the meaning of the Waste Land and the Fisher King, was opened up to us. But Weston was an integral part of the poem, not an external aid to comprehension. We needed nothing other than what was on the page and what stood behind the page. That same teacher offered us what he referred to as 'a medieval maxim','Man by the exercise of his free will fulfils the pattern of his destiny'. I have spent sixty years trying to find the source of that, and failing, but I never cease to bless the man who provided it. (Does anyone know its source?) Of course we need to discuss what is 'meant' by the text. Keats's (and I refer to the author of 'Ode to a Nightingale', not Durrell's character!) 'beauty is truth, truth beauty...' could occupy a reader delightfully for a lifetime and never yield its meaning, but no amount of help from Messieurs Derrida or Ricoeur can make an iota of difference to our own judgement. I think many critics suffer from a lack of an ability to make judgements of their own, and fall back vicariously on sources like les messieurs (for whom I do have considerable respect) rather than make the big jump towards shaping their own innate aesthetic. James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: I don't think your method will result in much enlightenment. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:08 AM, james Esposito wrote: I am very sorry indeed to learn that you disagree with the following statement: "Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world." James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: This whole approach seems to me a grossly oversimplified approach to the appreciation and teaching of literature, which after all is not some exercise in logical positivism. Words are tricky and not reducible to pat meanings, and how writers use words is even far more complex. So I disagree with all your statements. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Mar 25, 2016, at 1:58 AM, james Esposito wrote: By 'teaching their students how to enjoy texts' I meant that I see the principal purpose of teaching as the widening of students' appreciation of their chosen subject, be it literature, science or any other discipline. Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world. That may seem very old-fashioned but I think such purposes are diminished by what Keats called (paraphrase) unnecessary reaching out for reason - that is, the searching for explanations of what, ultimately, cannot be explained - credo quia absurdum. We owe it to ourselves and others (we, being teachers, writers and readers) to focus primarily on what the texts say, not what they don't say, or what a critic may think they say. James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: I wonder what it means ?to enjoy texts?? Isn?t that what we?re doing? I think James Gifford is on target. And I, a non-academic, thank him for his insights, which increase my enjoyment. Keep it up, James! Bruce > On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:32 PM, james Esposito wrote: > > I perhaps did not make myself clear on the subject of Durrell's relationship to the modernists. Of course he was well aware of the Eliots, Huxleys, etc, but what I meant was that we should not necessarily assume 'the anxiety of influence' - the fact that there are echoes of Eliot etc in Durrell's work does not allow us to infer that he deliberately set out to imitate them or to make obvious references to them - merely that, as a (still) apprentice writer in the first 2 novels he was setting out his own stall, not theirs. > And as for Keats, if I remember correctly, he got killed. > As for the mud bricks, I think it's completely far-fetched to read political persuasions into the fact that Durrell referred to a basic building material. They were just mud-bricks, not political slogans. > I think there is far too much time and effort spent on trying to analyse what Durrell may or may not have ingested into his writer's subconscious. It may be an amusing pastime for academics, but they should be teaching their students how to enjoy texts and not how to tear them apart. It isn't 'hunting of the snark' territory. > James Esposito > > _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ End of ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 ************************************* From robin.w.collins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 12:51:54 2016 From: robin.w.collins at gmail.com (Robin Collins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 15:51:54 -0400 Subject: [ilds] those damn academics! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BC4C308-7C74-4C96-81C7-A07D53E39EDF@gmail.com> > In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts... > > Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Panayotis, Aha, "simplicity"; so your plan is to dump on all those oh-so-snobby academic sophisticates and clarify, like a green grocer, the simple things they've missed, what we dumb ones might be led to by them, and show us what the true meanings really are -- the simple truths. Good luck with that. I think that your continuation on this list is proof you actually enjoy (as do I) the back and forths of the academics. The texts, the connections, the words, the obscurity. Makes me want to read the books! I've read Justine only once, maybe 40 years ago, and all I remember of it was that if I ever became a writer, I'd like to write like that, despite the heavy slogging. I read Bitter Lemons around the same time, and thought the same thing. What beautiful writing! I was led to Bitter Lemons by a comment by brother Gerald Durrell who'd written that this was his favourite book by his brother. Not the fiction that made him famous. Then after BL and J, I read Lawrence's humourous look at diplomacy, and then The Black Labyrinth -- the only scene I seem to remember of the latter was that there was some nudity near the end? The irony was that what I learned through the experience of reading LD was that (can I say this here?) brother Gerald Durrell wasn't a very good writer. He wrote for the cash to fuel his zoo, and every of his books (the ones I read) was exactly the same. Got up, went to exotic location, captured some animals, brought them back, the end. Plodding like a boring green grocer. I really admire the collegiality of this listserv, plan to re-read the full Quartet soon as I can spare the time (I think I got through 2 of them in my 20s), and all the travel works, see if my enthusiasm remains, and then top it all off by going to one of the ILD society's meetings, before I die. Preferably is an exotic Mediterranean location. This list is a primary stimulus for all of the above, including your contrary contributions, Panayotis. What a treat. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 13:41:43 2016 From: pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 23:41:43 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe Message-ID: As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. RP ---------------------- Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. Panayotis Gerontopoulos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Mon Mar 28 16:06:23 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:06:23 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1CDC245D-50EA-42F9-9698-2CBE1AE4EF87@earthlink.net> Richard Pine?s comment on Durrell and Cyrpus strikes me as fair and reasonable. It also conforms to my reading of Bitter Lemons. I see nothing wrong, however, with exposing students to current ?theories.? They should be grown up enough to learn the ?facts? of some aspects of literary criticism. Bruce > On Mar 28, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Richard Pine wrote: > > As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. > I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) > I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. > But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. > I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. > One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. > RP > ---------------------- > Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. > Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: > This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. > In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). > Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. > I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. > Panayotis Gerontopoulos > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 03:20:46 2016 From: pinedurrellcorfu at gmail.com (Richard Pine) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 13:20:46 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Robin Collins Message-ID: Robin Collins says: The irony was that what I learned through the experience of reading LD was that (can I say this here?) brother Gerald Durrell wasn't a very good writer. He wrote for the cash to fuel his zoo, and every of his books (the ones I read) was exactly the same. Got up, went to exotic location, captured some animals, brought them back, the end. Plodding like a boring green grocer. As the former director of the Durrell School of Corfu I have to argue with this: it may be a heresy, but I consider the first two books of Gerald's "Corfu Trilogy" superior to "Prospero's Cell", as far as the author's empathy with the island and its people is concerned. (Not the third, volume, I admit) As for "every one of his books was the same.... went, captured,,,,brought them back", well that's the Aristotelian unities isn't it, and if Mr Collins reads a passage like, for example, the conclusion to "Two in the Bush" he will at work a serious mind which focussed on the perils of the natural world as effectively as his brother did on the fictitious world. Yes, Gerald did not attempt 'great' literature, but he did not envy his brother. It was rather vice versa. Gerald Durrell's books are a monument to a pioneering intellect in the science of species preservation, not fairy stories. They should be read as such, by the grocer as much as by the princess (which they are). Reflect on this: every one of Aesop's fables is 'exactly the same' - sets out a dilemma or a particular situation, dissects it, and brings it to an acceptable conclusion. Just like Jane Austen or Lawrence Durrell (who also 'wrote for cash to fuel' his marriages, children, tax bill...'). RP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skybluepress at skybluepress.com Tue Mar 29 09:26:17 2016 From: skybluepress at skybluepress.com (Sky Blue Press) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:26:17 -0500 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010901d189d7$b91e9c20$2b5bd460$@skybluepress.com> Hello Durrellians, I'm trying to find out who owns rights to Alfred Perl?s' works--I'm publishing a book on Henry Miller in which I'd like to include Fred's last letter to Henry, just days before the latter's death. I was told to check with Association Lawrence Durrell en Languedoc in Sommieres, but their e-mail is defunct. I'm hoping someone on the list can pass along my request, which is below. Chers Messieurs: Je suis ?diteur de Sky Blue Press aux Etats-Unis et je voudrais publier une lettre par Alfred Perl?s dans un livre sur Henry Miller. Pourriez-vous me dire qui est le propri?taire des droits pour cette lettre ? Je voudrais obtenir permission, mais je ne sais pas de qui. Merci tellement, Paul Herron, Sky Blue Press Any help is much appreciated! Paul -----Original Message----- From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:01 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 Send ILDS mailing list submissions to ilds at lists.uvic.ca To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca You can reach the person managing the list at ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Reading Literature (Kennedy Gammage) 2. Re: Reading Literature (William Apt) 3. Re: Reading Literature (Denise Tart & David Green) 4. Re: Reading Literature (William Apt) 5. Re: Mr. Esposito (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:17:06 -0700 From: Kennedy Gammage To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? - Ken On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect > to Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this > Listserv many years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are > probably wrong), the List held a reading of *Justine* open to > all-comers. It was a close reading of the text, section by section. > The response was overwhelming; on an average day, I?d get about 40-50 > emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges civil, some > not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The discussions > were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they > offered their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous > job, and I imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would > in their classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at its best in the study of literature. > > Bruce > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. > Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts > seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the > scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and > broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these > appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and > Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, > but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, > a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. > And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. > Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too > was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very > much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the > future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. > > David Whitewine > > Sent from my iPad > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:27:21 -0500 From: William Apt To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Ken: Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure parts of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined ILDS. Am re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my trip this June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort to try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the group decide to undertake the task. I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled discussions by the wine dark sea! Billy PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and that it was to be our only encounter. WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 Austin TX 78701 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX > On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote: > > This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? > > - Ken > >> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of the text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average day, I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they offered their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at its best in the study of li! terature. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>> >>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. >>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. >>> >>> David Whitewine >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:49:31 +1100 From: Denise Tart & David Green To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature Message-ID: <78D4A44A-0823-4A57-A6B4-BC2F0F94395F at bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sounds like a great trip William. The wine fuelled discussions appeal. Sadly I am unable to travel OS this year. Haven't seen Corfu since 1985. Bet it's changed a lot? Hopefully not too much. Have a bottle or two for me. I'm working on Tunc and Nunquam. Will post thoughts as I go. David Sent from my iPad > On 28 Mar 2016, at 11:27 AM, William Apt wrote: > > Ken: > > Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure parts of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined ILDS. Am re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my trip this June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort to try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the group decide to undertake the task. > > I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled discussions by the wine dark sea! > > Billy > > PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and that it was to be our only encounter. > > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > Austin TX 78701 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > >> On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote: >> >> This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? >> >> - Ken >> >>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of the text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average day, I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they offered their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at its best in the study of l! iterature. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>>> >>>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. >>>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. >>>> >>>> David Whitewine >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 21:30:51 -0500 From: William Apt To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature Message-ID: <93E0D8F9-7C15-470A-B2B7-080B836114FB at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sounds good, David: will do! I always enjoy yr posts.... WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 Austin TX 78701 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX > On Mar 27, 2016, at 7:49 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Sounds like a great trip William. The wine fuelled discussions appeal. Sadly I am unable to travel OS this year. Haven't seen Corfu since 1985. Bet it's changed a lot? Hopefully not too much. Have a bottle or two for me. I'm working on Tunc and Nunquam. Will post thoughts as I go. > > David > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 28 Mar 2016, at 11:27 AM, William Apt wrote: >> >> Ken: >> >> Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure parts of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined ILDS. Am re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my trip this June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort to try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the group decide to undertake the task. >> >> I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled discussions by the wine dark sea! >> >> Billy >> >> PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and that it was to be our only encounter. >> >> WILLIAM APT >> Attorney at Law >> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >> Austin TX 78701 >> 512/708-8300 >> 512/708-8011 FAX >> >>> On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote: >>> >>> This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? >>> >>> - Ken >>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of the text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average day, I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they offered their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at its best in the study of ! literature. >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. >>>>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. >>>>> >>>>> David Whitewine >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ILDS mailing list >>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 21:45:13 +0300 From: Panaiotis Gerontopoulos To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. Panayotis Gerontopoulos From: dtart at bigpond.net.au Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 07:55:35 +1100 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he! did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. David Whitewine Sent from my iPad On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:16 AM, Frederick Schoff wrote: This matches my own experience. I found my literature classes in college stultifying. I would show up with enthusiasm after reading, say, Faulkner or Woolf, and left wondering 'What book(s) did these people read?'. They were too busy talking about various references (presumably to show their erudition) to discuss the actual book. I was only bored, and bid adieu to lit classes. One reason I like Durrell so much is that he seems unique. On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:17 AM, james Esposito wrote: What teacher employs a 'method'? My view of teaching literature does not amount to a 'method'! It is a way of looking at texts without recourse to the opinions and aesthetic perceptions of any except the teacher and his/her students. I do not argue with the view that a text can be explicated, teased out, probed, but it is like a mine - you delve in to extract whatever ore you can discover, not what a mineralogist tells you to discover. A good teacher shows you the way - hands you a drill, even a stick of dynamite! but essentially the relationship is you and the text. When - many years ago! - I was a student our teacher presented us with Eliot's The Waste Land and pointed us towards Jessie Weston's "From Ritual to Romance" - why? because Eliot makes specific reference to her work, and suddenly a whole world of the Grail Quest, the meaning of the Waste Land and the Fisher King, was opened up to us. But Weston was an integral part of the poem, not an external aid to comprehension. We needed nothing other than what was on the page and what stood behind the page. That same teacher offered us what he referred to as 'a medieval maxim','Man by the exercise of his free will fulfils the pattern of his destiny'. I have spent sixty years trying to find the source of that, and failing, but I never cease to bless the man who provided it. (Does anyone know its source?) Of course we need to discuss what is 'meant' by the text. Keats's (and I refer to the author of 'Ode to a Nightingale', not Durrell's character!) 'beauty is truth, truth beauty...' could occupy a reader delightfully for a lifetime and never yield its meaning, but no amount of help from Messieurs Derrida or Ricoeur can make an iota of difference to our own judgement. I think many critics suffer from a lack of an ability to make judgements of their own, and fall back vicariously on sources like les messieurs (for whom I do have considerable respect) rather than make the big jump towards shaping their own innate aesthetic. James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: I don't think your method will result in much enlightenment. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:08 AM, james Esposito wrote: I am very sorry indeed to learn that you disagree with the following statement: "Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world." James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: This whole approach seems to me a grossly oversimplified approach to the appreciation and teaching of literature, which after all is not some exercise in logical positivism. Words are tricky and not reducible to pat meanings, and how writers use words is even far more complex. So I disagree with all your statements. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Mar 25, 2016, at 1:58 AM, james Esposito wrote: By 'teaching their students how to enjoy texts' I meant that I see the principal purpose of teaching as the widening of students' appreciation of their chosen subject, be it literature, science or any other discipline. Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world. That may seem very old-fashioned but I think such purposes are diminished by what Keats called (paraphrase) unnecessary reaching out for reason - that is, the searching for explanations of what, ultimately, cannot be explained - credo quia absurdum. We owe it to ourselves and others (we, being teachers, writers and readers) to focus primarily on what the texts say, not what they don't say, or what a critic may think they say. James Esposito On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: I wonder what it means ?to enjoy texts?? Isn?t that what we?re doing? I think James Gifford is on target. And I, a non-academic, thank him for his insights, which increase my enjoyment. Keep it up, James! Bruce > On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:32 PM, james Esposito wrote: > > I perhaps did not make myself clear on the subject of Durrell's relationship to the modernists. Of course he was well aware of the Eliots, Huxleys, etc, but what I meant was that we should not necessarily assume 'the anxiety of influence' - the fact that there are echoes of Eliot etc in Durrell's work does not allow us to infer that he deliberately set out to imitate them or to make obvious references to them - merely that, as a (still) apprentice writer in the first 2 novels he was setting out his own stall, not theirs. > And as for Keats, if I remember correctly, he got killed. > As for the mud bricks, I think it's completely far-fetched to read political persuasions into the fact that Durrell referred to a basic building material. They were just mud-bricks, not political slogans. > I think there is far too much time and effort spent on trying to analyse what Durrell may or may not have ingested into his writer's subconscious. It may be an amusing pastime for academics, but they should be teaching their students how to enjoy texts and not how to tear them apart. It isn't 'hunting of the snark' territory. > James Esposito > > _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ End of ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 ************************************* From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 09:34:35 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:34:35 -0700 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <010901d189d7$b91e9c20$2b5bd460$@skybluepress.com> References: <010901d189d7$b91e9c20$2b5bd460$@skybluepress.com> Message-ID: <56FAAE9B.7060801@gmail.com> Hi Paul, I'm sending to the list in case anyone else is interested (and for general record). The University of Victoria holds a relatively recent Perl?s collection that I believe came from a family member -- they may have some updated information on the estate: http://www.uvic.ca/library/locations/home/spcoll/index.php There's no information at all in the WATCH file on Perl?s. I'll pass along the message to people whom I know were connected to the Assoc. LD en Languedoc, but I suspect it's no longer active. All best, James On 2016-03-29 9:26 AM, Sky Blue Press wrote: > Hello Durrellians, > > I'm trying to find out who owns rights to Alfred Perl?s' works--I'm > publishing a book on Henry Miller in which I'd like to include Fred's last > letter to Henry, just days before the latter's death. I was told to check > with Association Lawrence Durrell en Languedoc in Sommieres, but their > e-mail is defunct. I'm hoping someone on the list can pass along my request, > which is below. > > Chers Messieurs: > Je suis ?diteur de Sky Blue Press aux Etats-Unis et je voudrais publier une > lettre par Alfred Perl?s dans un livre sur Henry Miller. Pourriez-vous me > dire qui est le propri?taire des droits pour cette lettre ? Je voudrais > obtenir permission, mais je ne sais pas de qui. > Merci tellement, > Paul Herron, Sky Blue Press > > Any help is much appreciated! > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:01 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 > > Send ILDS mailing list submissions to > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Reading Literature (Kennedy Gammage) > 2. Re: Reading Literature (William Apt) > 3. Re: Reading Literature (Denise Tart & David Green) > 4. Re: Reading Literature (William Apt) > 5. Re: Mr. Esposito (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:17:06 -0700 > From: Kennedy Gammage > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? > > - Ken > > On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > >> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. >> Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect >> to Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this >> Listserv many years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are >> probably wrong), the List held a reading of *Justine* open to >> all-comers. It was a close reading of the text, section by section. >> The response was overwhelming; on an average day, I?d get about 40-50 >> emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges civil, some >> not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The discussions >> were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James >> Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they >> offered their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous >> job, and I imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would >> in their classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia > can do at its best in the study of literature. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green < >> dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: >> >> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. >> Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts >> seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the >> scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and >> broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these >> appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and >> Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, >> but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, >> a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics > as I gather, has done much to promote. >> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between >> reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate >> literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. >> Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too >> was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very >> much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the >> future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. >> >> David Whitewine >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:27:21 -0500 > From: William Apt > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ken: > > Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure parts > of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined ILDS. Am > re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my trip this > June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort to > try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff > (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I > would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. > However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the > group decide to undertake the task. > > I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled > discussions by the wine dark sea! > > Billy > > PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him > immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and > that it was to be our only encounter. > > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > Austin TX 78701 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > >> On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage > wrote: >> >> This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? >> >> - Ken >> >>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: >>> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to > Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many > years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List > held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of the > text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average day, > I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges > civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The > discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they offered > their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I > imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their > classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at > its best in the study of li! > terature. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: >>>> >>>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. > Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to > be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was > a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention > alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. >>>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books > often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to > mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. >>>> >>>> David Whitewine >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:49:31 +1100 > From: Denise Tart & David Green > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: <78D4A44A-0823-4A57-A6B4-BC2F0F94395F at bigpond.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sounds like a great trip William. The wine fuelled discussions appeal. Sadly > I am unable to travel OS this year. Haven't seen Corfu since 1985. Bet it's > changed a lot? Hopefully not too much. Have a bottle or two for me. I'm > working on Tunc and Nunquam. Will post thoughts as I go. > > David > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 28 Mar 2016, at 11:27 AM, William Apt wrote: >> >> Ken: >> >> Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure > parts of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined > ILDS. Am re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my trip > this June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort > to try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff > (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I > would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. > However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the > group decide to undertake the task. >> >> I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled > discussions by the wine dark sea! >> >> Billy >> >> PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him > immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and > that it was to be our only encounter. >> >> WILLIAM APT >> Attorney at Law >> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >> Austin TX 78701 >> 512/708-8300 >> 512/708-8011 FAX >> >>> On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage > wrote: >>> >>> This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? >>> >>> - Ken >>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: >>>> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to > Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many > years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List > held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of the > text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average day, > I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges > civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The > discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they offered > their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I > imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their > classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at > its best in the study of l! > iterature. >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit > badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts > seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly > world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too > mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. >>>>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books > often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to > mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. >>>>> >>>>> David Whitewine >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ILDS mailing list >>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 21:30:51 -0500 > From: William Apt > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: <93E0D8F9-7C15-470A-B2B7-080B836114FB at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sounds good, David: will do! I always enjoy yr posts.... > > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > Austin TX 78701 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > >> On Mar 27, 2016, at 7:49 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: >> >> Sounds like a great trip William. The wine fuelled discussions appeal. > Sadly I am unable to travel OS this year. Haven't seen Corfu since 1985. Bet > it's changed a lot? Hopefully not too much. Have a bottle or two for me. I'm > working on Tunc and Nunquam. Will post thoughts as I go. >> >> David >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 28 Mar 2016, at 11:27 AM, William Apt wrote: >>> >>> Ken: >>> >>> Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure > parts of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined > ILDS. Am re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my trip > this June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort > to try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff > (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I > would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. > However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the > group decide to undertake the task. >>> >>> I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled > discussions by the wine dark sea! >>> >>> Billy >>> >>> PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him > immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and > that it was to be our only encounter. >>> >>> WILLIAM APT >>> Attorney at Law >>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>> Austin TX 78701 >>> 512/708-8300 >>> 512/708-8011 FAX >>> >>>> On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage > wrote: >>>> >>>> This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? >>>> >>>> - Ken >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: >>>>> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to > Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many > years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List > held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of the > text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average day, > I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges > civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The > discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they offered > their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I > imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their > classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at > its best in the study of ! > literature. >>>>> >>>>> Bruce >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit > badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts > seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly > world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too > mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. >>>>>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books > often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to > mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. >>>>>> >>>>>> David Whitewine >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ILDS mailing list >>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ILDS mailing list >>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 21:45:13 +0300 > From: Panaiotis Gerontopoulos > To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame > to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on > their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few > past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers > and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the > contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which > the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the > "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. > What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and > post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. > Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the > various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in > serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: > This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat > impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the > troubled years years 1953-1956. > In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, > Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen > Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that > she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the > ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted > Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, > 464). > Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind > British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including > Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a > policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of > him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of > Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired > civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and > Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto > Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, > September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected > in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and > philhellene brothers. > I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, > taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February > 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing > situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would > agree. > Panayotis Gerontopoulos > From: dtart at bigpond.net.au > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 07:55:35 +1100 > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito > > Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. > Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to > be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was > a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention > alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. > And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he! > did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the > present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. > David Whitewine > > Sent from my iPad > On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:16 AM, Frederick Schoff > wrote: > > > This matches my own experience. I found my literature classes in college > stultifying. I would show up with enthusiasm after reading, say, Faulkner or > Woolf, and left wondering 'What book(s) did these people read?'. They were > too busy talking about various references (presumably to show their > erudition) to discuss the actual book. I was only bored, and bid adieu to > lit classes. One reason I like Durrell so much is that he seems unique. > > On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:17 AM, james Esposito > wrote: > > What teacher employs a 'method'? My view of teaching literature does not > amount to a 'method'! It is a way of looking at texts without recourse to > the opinions and aesthetic perceptions of any except the teacher and his/her > students. > I do not argue with the view that a text can be explicated, teased out, > probed, but it is like a mine - you delve in to extract whatever ore you can > discover, not what a mineralogist tells you to discover. A good teacher > shows you the way - hands you a drill, even a stick of dynamite! but > essentially the relationship is you and the text. > When - many years ago! - I was a student our teacher presented us with > Eliot's The Waste Land and pointed us towards Jessie Weston's "From Ritual > to Romance" - why? because Eliot makes specific reference to her work, and > suddenly a whole world of the Grail Quest, the meaning of the Waste Land and > the Fisher King, was opened up to us. But Weston was an integral part of the > poem, not an external aid to comprehension. We needed nothing other than > what was on the page and what stood behind the page. > That same teacher offered us what he referred to as 'a medieval maxim','Man > by the exercise of his free will fulfils the pattern of his destiny'. I have > spent sixty years trying to find the source of that, and failing, but I > never cease to bless the man who provided it. (Does anyone know its source?) > Of course we need to discuss what is 'meant' by the text. Keats's (and I > refer to the author of 'Ode to a Nightingale', not Durrell's character!) > 'beauty is truth, truth beauty...' could occupy a reader delightfully for a > lifetime and never yield its meaning, but no amount of help from Messieurs > Derrida or Ricoeur can make an iota of difference to our own judgement. I > think many critics suffer from a lack of an ability to make judgements of > their own, and fall back vicariously on sources like les messieurs (for whom > I do have considerable respect) rather than make the big jump towards > shaping their own innate aesthetic. > James Esposito > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > I don't think your method will result in much enlightenment. > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:08 AM, james Esposito > wrote: > > I am very sorry indeed to learn that you disagree with the following > statement: > "Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give > them a better understanding of themselves and the world." > James Esposito > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > This whole approach seems to me a grossly oversimplified approach to the > appreciation and teaching of literature, which after all is not some > exercise in logical positivism. Words are tricky and not reducible to pat > meanings, and how writers use words is even far more complex. So I disagree > with all your statements. > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 25, 2016, at 1:58 AM, james Esposito > wrote: > > By 'teaching their students how to enjoy texts' I meant that I see the > principal purpose of teaching as the widening of students' appreciation of > their chosen subject, be it literature, science or any other discipline. > Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give > them a better understanding of themselves and the world. That may seem very > old-fashioned but I think such purposes are diminished by what Keats called > (paraphrase) unnecessary reaching out for reason - that is, the searching > for explanations of what, ultimately, cannot be explained - credo quia > absurdum. We owe it to ourselves and others (we, being teachers, writers and > readers) to focus primarily on what the texts say, not what they don't say, > or what a critic may think they say. > James Esposito > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > I wonder what it means ?to enjoy texts?? Isn?t that what we?re doing? I > think James Gifford is on target. And I, a non-academic, thank him for his > insights, which increase my enjoyment. Keep it up, James! > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:32 PM, james Esposito > wrote: > >> > >> I perhaps did not make myself clear on the subject of Durrell's > relationship to the modernists. Of course he was well aware of the Eliots, > Huxleys, etc, but what I meant was that we should not necessarily assume > 'the anxiety of influence' - the fact that there are echoes of Eliot etc in > Durrell's work does not allow us to infer that he deliberately set out to > imitate them or to make obvious references to them - merely that, as a > (still) apprentice writer in the first 2 novels he was setting out his own > stall, not theirs. > >> And as for Keats, if I remember correctly, he got killed. > >> As for the mud bricks, I think it's completely far-fetched to read > political persuasions into the fact that Durrell referred to a basic > building material. They were just mud-bricks, not political slogans. > >> I think there is far too much time and effort spent on trying to analyse > what Durrell may or may not have ingested into his writer's subconscious. It > may be an amusing pastime for academics, but they should be teaching their > students how to enjoy texts and not how to tear them apart. It isn't > 'hunting of the snark' territory. > >> James Esposito > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > End of ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 > ************************************* > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > From billyapt at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 10:19:45 2016 From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:19:45 -0500 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <010901d189d7$b91e9c20$2b5bd460$@skybluepress.com> References: <010901d189d7$b91e9c20$2b5bd460$@skybluepress.com> Message-ID: Try Carl (sometimes spelled Karl) Orend, who can be reached through the editors of Nexus, the Miller quarterly. I think Mr. Orend, who lives outside of Austin, can also be reached directly through Facebook. On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Sky Blue Press < skybluepress at skybluepress.com> wrote: > Hello Durrellians, > > I'm trying to find out who owns rights to Alfred Perl?s' works--I'm > publishing a book on Henry Miller in which I'd like to include Fred's last > letter to Henry, just days before the latter's death. I was told to check > with Association Lawrence Durrell en Languedoc in Sommieres, but their > e-mail is defunct. I'm hoping someone on the list can pass along my > request, > which is below. > > Chers Messieurs: > Je suis ?diteur de Sky Blue Press aux Etats-Unis et je voudrais publier une > lettre par Alfred Perl?s dans un livre sur Henry Miller. Pourriez-vous me > dire qui est le propri?taire des droits pour cette lettre ? Je voudrais > obtenir permission, mais je ne sais pas de qui. > Merci tellement, > Paul Herron, Sky Blue Press > > Any help is much appreciated! > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:01 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 > > Send ILDS mailing list submissions to > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Reading Literature (Kennedy Gammage) > 2. Re: Reading Literature (William Apt) > 3. Re: Reading Literature (Denise Tart & David Green) > 4. Re: Reading Literature (William Apt) > 5. Re: Mr. Esposito (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:17:06 -0700 > From: Kennedy Gammage > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: > 8WwdgXD_HsQBbkroKU5+c7Vhq9GbOKUAA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so > we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle > Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? > > - Ken > > On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > > > I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect > > to Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this > > Listserv many years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are > > probably wrong), the List held a reading of *Justine* open to > > all-comers. It was a close reading of the text, section by section. > > The response was overwhelming; on an average day, I?d get about 40-50 > > emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges civil, some > > not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The discussions > > were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they > > offered their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous > > job, and I imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would > > in their classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia > can do at its best in the study of literature. > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green < > > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > > > Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. > > Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts > > seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the > > scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and > > broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these > > appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and > > Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, > > but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, > > a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics > as I gather, has done much to promote. > > And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. > > Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too > > was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very > > much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the > > future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. > > > > David Whitewine > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20160327/48d4ef5c/attachmen > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:27:21 -0500 > From: William Apt > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ken: > > Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure parts > of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined ILDS. Am > re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my trip this > June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort to > try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff > (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I > would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. > However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the > group decide to undertake the task. > > I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled > discussions by the wine dark sea! > > Billy > > PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him > immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and > that it was to be our only encounter. > > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > Austin TX 78701 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage > wrote: > > > > This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so > we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle > Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? > > > > - Ken > > > >> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine > > wrote: > >> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to > Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many > years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List > held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of > the > text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average > day, > I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most > exchanges > civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The > discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they > offered > their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I > imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their > classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at > its best in the study of li! > terature. > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: > >>> > >>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit > badly. > Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to > be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world > was > a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention > alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. > >>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books > often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to > mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. > >>> > >>> David Whitewine > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20160327/8a3b8060/attachmen > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:49:31 +1100 > From: Denise Tart & David Green > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: <78D4A44A-0823-4A57-A6B4-BC2F0F94395F at bigpond.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sounds like a great trip William. The wine fuelled discussions appeal. > Sadly > I am unable to travel OS this year. Haven't seen Corfu since 1985. Bet it's > changed a lot? Hopefully not too much. Have a bottle or two for me. I'm > working on Tunc and Nunquam. Will post thoughts as I go. > > David > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 28 Mar 2016, at 11:27 AM, William Apt wrote: > > > > Ken: > > > > Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure > parts of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined > ILDS. Am re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my > trip > this June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort > to try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff > (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I > would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. > However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the > group decide to undertake the task. > > > > I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled > discussions by the wine dark sea! > > > > Billy > > > > PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him > immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and > that it was to be our only encounter. > > > > WILLIAM APT > > Attorney at Law > > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > > Austin TX 78701 > > 512/708-8300 > > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > >> On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage > > wrote: > >> > >> This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so > we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle > Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? > >> > >> - Ken > >> > >>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine < > bredwine1968 at gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to > Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many > years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List > held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of > the > text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average > day, > I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most > exchanges > civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The > discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they > offered > their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I > imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their > classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at > its best in the study of l! > iterature. > >>> > >>> Bruce > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit > badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts > seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the > scholarly > world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too > mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that > I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. > >>>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books > often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to > mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. > >>>> > >>>> David Whitewine > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ILDS mailing list > >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20160328/6793ade8/attachmen > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 21:30:51 -0500 > From: William Apt > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Reading Literature > Message-ID: <93E0D8F9-7C15-470A-B2B7-080B836114FB at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sounds good, David: will do! I always enjoy yr posts.... > > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > Austin TX 78701 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > On Mar 27, 2016, at 7:49 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: > > > > Sounds like a great trip William. The wine fuelled discussions appeal. > Sadly I am unable to travel OS this year. Haven't seen Corfu since 1985. > Bet > it's changed a lot? Hopefully not too much. Have a bottle or two for me. > I'm > working on Tunc and Nunquam. Will post thoughts as I go. > > > > David > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On 28 Mar 2016, at 11:27 AM, William Apt wrote: > >> > >> Ken: > >> > >> Bill, Charles and Jamie's generous clarifications of the more obscure > parts of Justine were wonderfully helpful. That was the reason I joined > ILDS. Am re-reading Prospero now in anticipation of the Corfu leg of my > trip > this June, prior to Crete, and, after Prospero, am going to make the effort > to try and tackle Swan's Way - and after that a whole slew of other stuff > (including the final installment of Fermor's "Great Trudge") - so while I > would like to re-read Balthazar, which I loved, my plate is full right now. > However, I will follow with enthusiasm the commentary of others should the > group decide to undertake the task. > >> > >> I look forward to seeing everyone in June and to many wine fueled > discussions by the wine dark sea! > >> > >> Billy > >> > >> PS: I was fortunate to meet Bill at the London conference and liked him > immediately and immensely. Was so sorry he passed so soon thereafter and > that it was to be our only encounter. > >> > >> WILLIAM APT > >> Attorney at Law > >> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > >> Austin TX 78701 > >> 512/708-8300 > >> 512/708-8011 FAX > >> > >>> On Mar 27, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Kennedy Gammage < > gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> This listserv close reading of Justine from 2007 sounds amazing! I > would > love to read it. I know that, whenever you ask for something like this, you > are specifically asking the busiest person we know to make it happen...so > we > can wait, but if there was a link to it someday I know I would do the deep > dive. Of course everyone who knew him misses Bill Godshalk. A world-class > scholar with an epic sense of humor! Maybe we should try to tackle > Balthazar > sometime in the near future. Billy Apt, what do you say to that? > >>> > >>> - Ken > >>> > >>>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > >>>> I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. > Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to > Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many > years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List > held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of > the > text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average > day, > I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most > exchanges > civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The > discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James > Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they > offered > their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I > imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their > classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at > its best in the study of ! > literature. > >>>> > >>>> Bruce > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit > badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts > seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the > scholarly > world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too > mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that > I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. > >>>>> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship > between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books > often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to > mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Whitewine > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> ILDS mailing list > >>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ILDS mailing list > >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20160327/bceecca8/attachmen > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 21:45:13 +0300 > From: Panaiotis Gerontopoulos > To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and > shame > to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated > on > their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few > past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have > teachers > and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the > contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which > the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the > "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. > What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and > post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. > Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the > various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in > serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: > This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat > impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the > troubled years years 1953-1956. > In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, > Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen > Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that > she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the > ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted > Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A > Biography, > 464). > Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind > British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks > (including > Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a > policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of > him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of > Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired > civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and > Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto > Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, > September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu > erected > in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and > philhellene brothers. > I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, > taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February > 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing > situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers > would > agree. > Panayotis Gerontopoulos > From: dtart at bigpond.net.au > Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 07:55:35 +1100 > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Mr. Esposito > > Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. > Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to > be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world > was > a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention > alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I > discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The > quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other > books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which > the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. > And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between > reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate > literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers > rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a > wider world which I sometimes think he! > did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the > present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein. > David Whitewine > > Sent from my iPad > On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:16 AM, Frederick Schoff > wrote: > > > This matches my own experience. I found my literature classes in college > stultifying. I would show up with enthusiasm after reading, say, Faulkner > or > Woolf, and left wondering 'What book(s) did these people read?'. They were > too busy talking about various references (presumably to show their > erudition) to discuss the actual book. I was only bored, and bid adieu to > lit classes. One reason I like Durrell so much is that he seems unique. > > On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:17 AM, james Esposito > wrote: > > What teacher employs a 'method'? My view of teaching literature does not > amount to a 'method'! It is a way of looking at texts without recourse to > the opinions and aesthetic perceptions of any except the teacher and > his/her > students. > I do not argue with the view that a text can be explicated, teased out, > probed, but it is like a mine - you delve in to extract whatever ore you > can > discover, not what a mineralogist tells you to discover. A good teacher > shows you the way - hands you a drill, even a stick of dynamite! but > essentially the relationship is you and the text. > When - many years ago! - I was a student our teacher presented us with > Eliot's The Waste Land and pointed us towards Jessie Weston's "From Ritual > to Romance" - why? because Eliot makes specific reference to her work, and > suddenly a whole world of the Grail Quest, the meaning of the Waste Land > and > the Fisher King, was opened up to us. But Weston was an integral part of > the > poem, not an external aid to comprehension. We needed nothing other than > what was on the page and what stood behind the page. > That same teacher offered us what he referred to as 'a medieval maxim','Man > by the exercise of his free will fulfils the pattern of his destiny'. I > have > spent sixty years trying to find the source of that, and failing, but I > never cease to bless the man who provided it. (Does anyone know its > source?) > Of course we need to discuss what is 'meant' by the text. Keats's (and I > refer to the author of 'Ode to a Nightingale', not Durrell's character!) > 'beauty is truth, truth beauty...' could occupy a reader delightfully for a > lifetime and never yield its meaning, but no amount of help from Messieurs > Derrida or Ricoeur can make an iota of difference to our own judgement. I > think many critics suffer from a lack of an ability to make judgements of > their own, and fall back vicariously on sources like les messieurs (for > whom > I do have considerable respect) rather than make the big jump towards > shaping their own innate aesthetic. > James Esposito > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Redwine > > wrote: > I don't think your method will result in much enlightenment. > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:08 AM, james Esposito > wrote: > > I am very sorry indeed to learn that you disagree with the following > statement: > "Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give > them a better understanding of themselves and the world." > James Esposito > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Redwine > > wrote: > This whole approach seems to me a grossly oversimplified approach to the > appreciation and teaching of literature, which after all is not some > exercise in logical positivism. Words are tricky and not reducible to pat > meanings, and how writers use words is even far more complex. So I > disagree > with all your statements. > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 25, 2016, at 1:58 AM, james Esposito > wrote: > > By 'teaching their students how to enjoy texts' I meant that I see the > principal purpose of teaching as the widening of students' appreciation of > their chosen subject, be it literature, science or any other discipline. > Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give > them a better understanding of themselves and the world. That may seem very > old-fashioned but I think such purposes are diminished by what Keats called > (paraphrase) unnecessary reaching out for reason - that is, the searching > for explanations of what, ultimately, cannot be explained - credo quia > absurdum. We owe it to ourselves and others (we, being teachers, writers > and > readers) to focus primarily on what the texts say, not what they don't say, > or what a critic may think they say. > James Esposito > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Bruce Redwine > > wrote: > I wonder what it means ?to enjoy texts?? Isn?t that what we?re doing? I > think James Gifford is on target. And I, a non-academic, thank him for his > insights, which increase my enjoyment. Keep it up, James! > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:32 PM, james Esposito > > wrote: > > > > > > I perhaps did not make myself clear on the subject of Durrell's > relationship to the modernists. Of course he was well aware of the Eliots, > Huxleys, etc, but what I meant was that we should not necessarily assume > 'the anxiety of influence' - the fact that there are echoes of Eliot etc in > Durrell's work does not allow us to infer that he deliberately set out to > imitate them or to make obvious references to them - merely that, as a > (still) apprentice writer in the first 2 novels he was setting out his own > stall, not theirs. > > > And as for Keats, if I remember correctly, he got killed. > > > As for the mud bricks, I think it's completely far-fetched to read > political persuasions into the fact that Durrell referred to a basic > building material. They were just mud-bricks, not political slogans. > > > I think there is far too much time and effort spent on trying to analyse > what Durrell may or may not have ingested into his writer's subconscious. > It > may be an amusing pastime for academics, but they should be teaching their > students how to enjoy texts and not how to tear them apart. It isn't > 'hunting of the snark' territory. > > > James Esposito > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20160328/76e556e3/attachmen > t-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > End of ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 > ************************************* > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -- WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 Austin TX 78701 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilded at hotmail.com Wed Mar 30 06:11:29 2016 From: wilded at hotmail.com (david wilde) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:11:29 +0000 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: RE Panhellenism. Arch-bishop Makarios was a thorn in the British Establishment side and forced the polarisation of views to be exacerbated. Bitter Lemons exposes this polarisation in time and in memories -at least in my own memory of the period which are and still will remain vivid for the rest of my life of my boyhood days growing up under the empire driven mantle of this post war tectonic era! David Wilde ________________________________ From: ILDS on behalf of Richard Pine Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:41 PM To: pan.gero at hotmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. RP ---------------------- Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. Panayotis Gerontopoulos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Wed Mar 30 08:14:39 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:14:39 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F0782BD-89E7-40B4-A2E5-A1BD9B97D433@earthlink.net> What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? Bruce > On Mar 30, 2016, at 6:11 AM, david wilde wrote: > > RE Panhellenism. Arch-bishop Makarios was a thorn in the British Establishment side and forced the polarisation of views to be exacerbated. Bitter Lemons exposes this polarisation in time and in memories -at least in my own memory of the period which are and still will remain vivid for the rest of my life of my boyhood days growing up under the empire driven mantle of this post war tectonic era! David Wilde > From: ILDS on behalf of Richard Pine > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:41 PM > To: pan.gero at hotmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe > > As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. > I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) > I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. > But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. > I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. > One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. > RP > ---------------------- > Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. > Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: > This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. > In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). > Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. > I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. > Panayotis Gerontopoulos > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.gero at hotmail.com Sun Apr 3 06:48:29 2016 From: pan.gero at hotmail.com (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:48:29 +0300 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: <5F0782BD-89E7-40B4-A2E5-A1BD9B97D433@earthlink.net> References: , , <5F0782BD-89E7-40B4-A2E5-A1BD9B97D433@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On March 30 2016, Bruce Redwine wrote to this List under the heading ?Bitter Lemons and Academe?: What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? The phrase sounds obscure to the ears of a green grocer as I am. Who, the hell, did say that? Redwine acknowledges the departed Edward Said, as a ?major critical voice in the twentieth century? but blames him of seeking to Paint the British and the West as behaving deliberately and categorically, in an overbearing dominant and racist way. Said?s method is typically Marxist. (This List, ?Said and Marx?, this List, Monday, 26 Oct 2015) and, to reinforce the argument, calls in help the historian Niall Ferguson: The central nationalist/Marxist assumption is, of course, that imperialism was economically exploitative: every facet of colonial rule, including even the apparently sincere efforts of Europeans to study and understand indigenous cultures, was at root designed to maximize the surplus value that could be extracted from the subject peoples. As if it was not enough, Redwine blames Said for distorting the sayings of A. J. Balfour in a 1910 UK Parliament debate with the liberal J. M. Robertson. An illuminating passage of Balfour?s speech transcribed by Said: It is a good thing for these great nations [the oriental nations] - I admit their greatness- that this absolute government should be exercised by us? I think it is a good thing. I think that the experience shows that they have got under it far better government than in the whole history of the world they ever had before, and which not only is a benefit to the whole of the civilized West? We are in Egypt not merely for the sake of the Egyptians, though we are there for their sake; we are there also for the sake of Europe at large. (Edward W. Said, Orientalism, Penguin Books 1962, p. 33) [my emphasis] Shortly after landing in Cyprus in the autumn of 1954, the Briton Charles Foley, Director of the ?Times of Cyprus? from 1954 to 1960, finds Lawrence Durrell waiting for him in a Nicosia hotel to give him the ?official point of view?. In Foleys? words: Back at the hotel, I found Mr. Lawrence Durrell, the poet, who had lately taken over the post of Government Information Officer after a spell as a Pancyprian Gymnasium teacher. Durrell was short and square, with rock crystal eyes set in a craggy face and the grin of a good-natured satyr. He had been told to see that I understood the official point of view. No nation was more devoted to the principle of self-determination than our own, but in Cyprus it was simply ?not on?. The long chain of British withdrawals of which the last was from the Suez base, must now end: the island would be held for the sake of the Western Alliance, and, of course, for the Cypriots themselves [?] it could undermine the Eastern bastion of N.A.T.O and depress living standards which were now on the rise as illustrated by the number of bars opened for the troops (Island in Revolt, Longmans 1962 p. 11-12) [my emphasis] Unless we are going to accuse Said and Foley of lying, the resemblance of Durrell?s position to Balfour?s, after the elapse of half a century, worsened by the reference to the newly opened bordellos for the troops is, to say the least, striking. Adding to the above, Durrell?s little known letter to the Governor of Cyprus on Feb.17 1954 (my post to this List, Oct 25 2015), the point raised by Richard Pine that suspecting LD?s philhellenism, thoughts, and actions is a Greek or Cypriot prejudice does not hold. I did not yet read Mindscapes, but I find Pine?s recognition of Durrell?s ?financial reasons to work for the British?, ?taking their money against his better judgment? and his ?head and heart Agon?, interesting and new. This does not change the reading of Bitter Lemons of Cyprus as a na?ve attempt to whitewash the criminal handling of the so-called Cyprus Emergency by the British officialdom. In an interview with the Aegean Review in the fall of 1987 Durrell confessed But I?ve been progressively disgusted with our double-facedness in politics over situations like the Greek situation. Remember I?ve worked as an official in Cyprus on that disgusting situation which was entirely engineered by us, do you see? (C. Hitchens, 'Hostage to History' , Verso ed. 1997, p.3) [my emphasis] Be it as it may, erecting brass-busts or, for the difference it makes, bas-reliefs, in the Boschetto of Corfu to honor the philhellene, or the philhellenese Lawrence Durrell (David Roessel, Letters of Lawrence Durrell to Austen Harrison, Deus Loci, NS3 1994, p. 11) remains a curious post-colonial paradox. PG From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:14:39 -0700 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? Bruce On Mar 30, 2016, at 6:11 AM, david wilde wrote:RE Panhellenism. Arch-bishop Makarios was a thorn in the British Establishment side and forced the polarisation of views to be exacerbated. Bitter Lemons exposes this polarisation in time and in memories -at least in my own memory of the period which are and still will remain vivid for the rest of my life of my boyhood days growing up under the empire driven mantle of this post war tectonic era! David Wilde From: ILDS on behalf of Richard Pine Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:41 PM To: pan.gero at hotmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. RP ---------------------- Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts.Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface:This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956.In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers.I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. Panayotis Gerontopoulos _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.w.collins at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 08:56:48 2016 From: robin.w.collins at gmail.com (Robin Collins) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 11:56:48 -0400 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: References: <5F0782BD-89E7-40B4-A2E5-A1BD9B97D433@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <78A3AC6F-23A6-47AC-B9C4-E94DF2E487EB@gmail.com> Panaiotis Thanks for a useful, fascinating and interesting survey on that subject. (I pulled out my Said and Hitchens books on this but found not much). I'd be the last to defend the colonial project but LD is too multifaceted to stick (only) with the imperialist label I think you'd agree. And it is certainly possible for someone to speak on behalf of the domineering front at one point, regret some or all of it at a later date, years later become an excellent chronicler of the place and people being abused, love the land and residents, and then one day be honoured for the best aspects of one's contributions -- with brass-busts, or other sentiments. It is a paradox, as you say, but maybe more reasonable than curious? > The white wine tasted sharp and good and as he raised his glass Panos gave me the toast of the day: 'That we may pass beyond' (i.e. the present troubles) 'and that we may emerge once more in the forgotten Cyprus -- as if through a looking-glass.' In a way, too, he was toasting a dying affection which might never be revived -- one of those bright dreams of deathless friendship which schoolboys still believed in, of an England and Greece which were bondsmen in the spirit. > How stupid such figments sound to the politicians and how vital they are to young nations! > [Bitter Lemons, page 222, Robin > On Apr 3, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Panaiotis Gerontopoulos wrote: > > On March 30 2016, Bruce Redwine wrote to this List under the heading ?Bitter Lemons and Academe?: > > What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? > > The phrase sounds obscure to the ears of a green grocer as I am. Who, the hell, did say that? Redwine acknowledges the departed Edward Said, as a ?major critical voice in the twentieth century? but blames him of seeking to > > Paint the British and the West as behaving deliberately and categorically, in an overbearing dominant and racist way. Said?s method is typically Marxist. (This List, ?Said and Marx?, this List, Monday, 26 Oct 2015) > > and, to reinforce the argument, calls in help the historian Niall Ferguson: > > The central nationalist/Marxist assumption is, of course, that imperialism was economically exploitative: every facet of colonial rule, including even the apparently sincere efforts of Europeans to study and understand indigenous cultures, was at root designed to maximize the surplus value that could be extracted from the subject peoples. > > As if it was not enough, Redwine blames Said for distorting the sayings of A. J. Balfour in a 1910 UK Parliament debate with the liberal J. M. Robertson. An illuminating passage of Balfour?s speech transcribed by Said: > > It is a good thing for these great nations [the oriental nations] - I admit their greatness- that this absolute government should be exercised by us? I think it is a good thing. I think that the experience shows that they have got under it far better government than in the whole history of the world they ever had before, and which not only is a benefit to the whole of the civilized West? We are in Egypt not merely for the sake of the Egyptians, though we are there for their sake; we are there also for the sake of Europe at large. (Edward W. Said, Orientalism, Penguin Books 1962, p. 33) [my emphasis] > > Shortly after landing in Cyprus in the autumn of 1954, the Briton Charles Foley, Director of the ?Times of Cyprus? from 1954 to 1960, finds Lawrence Durrell waiting for him in a Nicosia hotel to give him the ?official point of view?. In Foleys? words: > > Back at the hotel, I found Mr. Lawrence Durrell, the poet, who had lately taken over the post of Government Information Officer after a spell as a Pancyprian Gymnasium teacher. Durrell was short and square, with rock crystal eyes set in a craggy face and the grin of a good-natured satyr. He had been told to see that I understood the official point of view. No nation was more devoted to the principle of self-determination than our own, but in Cyprus it was simply ?not on?. The long chain of British withdrawals of which the last was from the Suez base, must now end: the island would be held for the sake of the Western Alliance, and, of course, for the Cypriots themselves [?] it could undermine the Eastern bastion of N.A.T.O and depress living standards which were now on the rise as illustrated by the number of bars opened for the troops (Island in Revolt, Longmans 1962 p. 11-12) [my emphasis] > > Unless we are going to accuse Said and Foley of lying, the resemblance of Durrell?s position to Balfour?s, after the elapse of half a century, worsened by the reference to the newly opened bordellos for the troops is, to say the least, striking. > > Adding to the above, Durrell?s little known letter to the Governor of Cyprus on Feb.17 1954 (my post to this List, Oct 25 2015), the point raised by Richard Pine that suspecting LD?s philhellenism, thoughts, and actions is a Greek or Cypriot prejudice does not hold. > > I did not yet read Mindscapes, but I find Pine?s recognition of Durrell?s ?financial reasons to work for the British?, ?taking their money against his better judgment? and his ?head and heart Agon?, interesting and new. This does not change the reading of Bitter Lemons of Cyprus as a na?ve attempt to whitewash the criminal handling of the so-called Cyprus Emergency by the British officialdom. In an interview with the Aegean Review in the fall of 1987 Durrell confessed > > But I?ve been progressively disgusted with our double-facedness in politics over situations like the Greek situation. Remember I?ve worked as an official in Cyprus on that disgusting situation which was entirely engineered by us, do you see? (C. Hitchens, 'Hostage to History' , Verso ed. 1997, p.3) [my emphasis] > > Be it as it may, erecting brass-busts or, for the difference it makes, bas-reliefs, in the Boschetto of Corfu to honor the philhellene, or the philhellenese Lawrence Durrell (David Roessel, Letters of Lawrence Durrell to Austen Harrison, Deus Loci, NS3 1994, p. 11) remains a curious post-colonial paradox. > > PG > > > From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:14:39 -0700 > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe > > What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? > > Bruce > > > On Mar 30, 2016, at 6:11 AM, david wilde wrote: > > RE Panhellenism. Arch-bishop Makarios was a thorn in the British Establishment side and forced the polarisation of views to be exacerbated. Bitter Lemons exposes this polarisation in time and in memories -at least in my own memory of the period which are and still will remain vivid for the rest of my life of my boyhood days growing up under the empire driven mantle of this post war tectonic era! David Wilde > From: ILDS on behalf of Richard Pine > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:41 PM > To: pan.gero at hotmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe > > As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. > I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) > I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. > But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. > I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. > One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. > RP > ---------------------- > Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. > Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: > This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. > In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). > Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. > I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. > Panayotis Gerontopoulos > > > > _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.w.collins at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 09:50:54 2016 From: robin.w.collins at gmail.com (Robin Collins) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 12:50:54 -0400 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: <78A3AC6F-23A6-47AC-B9C4-E94DF2E487EB@gmail.com> References: <5F0782BD-89E7-40B4-A2E5-A1BD9B97D433@earthlink.net> <78A3AC6F-23A6-47AC-B9C4-E94DF2E487EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <104D580D-6363-41EB-928F-AE8D9F5B309D@gmail.com> Skimming through Google I saw an excerpt from Bowman's Narratives of Cyprus that is squarely on the same topic, and much critical of LD. Is/was Bowman known to others? > Book blurb: Unease has marked relations between modern travel writers and the people of Cyprus. Visitors like Lawrence Durrell, Colin Thubron, Christopher Hitchens and Sebastian Junger have registered the effects of political strife on both the people of the island and those who visit from abroad. Their accounts demonstrate how geopolitical realities--such as colonization, insurgency, inter-communal warfare, and now decades of militarized 'peace'--shape the narrating self and its relations to others. Here, Jim Bowman assesses the effects of Cypriot history on writings about the island through an analysis of memoirs, travelogues, political journalism, guide books and ethnographies. Through this examination of popular texts, Bowman shows how a western and politicized image of Cyprus has been created, increasingly divorced from the realities experienced by the local population. Narratives of Cyprus is an important reassessment of Cyprus' place in British culture, and will be of interest to scholars and students of Anthropology, English Literature and Ethnographic Studies. Robin > On Apr 3, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Robin Collins wrote: > > Panaiotis > > Thanks for a useful, fascinating and interesting survey on that subject. (I pulled out my Said and Hitchens books on this but found not much). I'd be the last to defend the colonial project but LD is too multifaceted to stick (only) with the imperialist label I think you'd agree. And it is certainly possible for someone to speak on behalf of the domineering front at one point, regret some or all of it at a later date, years later become an excellent chronicler of the place and people being abused, love the land and residents, and then one day be honoured for the best aspects of one's contributions -- with brass-busts, or other sentiments. It is a paradox, as you say, but maybe more reasonable than curious? > >> The white wine tasted sharp and good and as he raised his glass Panos gave me the toast of the day: 'That we may pass beyond' (i.e. the present troubles) 'and that we may emerge once more in the forgotten Cyprus -- as if through a looking-glass.' In a way, too, he was toasting a dying affection which might never be revived -- one of those bright dreams of deathless friendship which schoolboys still believed in, of an England and Greece which were bondsmen in the spirit. >> How stupid such figments sound to the politicians and how vital they are to young nations! >> [Bitter Lemons, page 222, > > Robin > > > >> On Apr 3, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Panaiotis Gerontopoulos wrote: >> >> On March 30 2016, Bruce Redwine wrote to this List under the heading ?Bitter Lemons and Academe?: >> >> What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? >> >> The phrase sounds obscure to the ears of a green grocer as I am. Who, the hell, did say that? Redwine acknowledges the departed Edward Said, as a ?major critical voice in the twentieth century? but blames him of seeking to >> >> Paint the British and the West as behaving deliberately and categorically, in an overbearing dominant and racist way. Said?s method is typically Marxist. (This List, ?Said and Marx?, this List, Monday, 26 Oct 2015) >> >> and, to reinforce the argument, calls in help the historian Niall Ferguson: >> >> The central nationalist/Marxist assumption is, of course, that imperialism was economically exploitative: every facet of colonial rule, including even the apparently sincere efforts of Europeans to study and understand indigenous cultures, was at root designed to maximize the surplus value that could be extracted from the subject peoples. >> >> As if it was not enough, Redwine blames Said for distorting the sayings of A. J. Balfour in a 1910 UK Parliament debate with the liberal J. M. Robertson. An illuminating passage of Balfour?s speech transcribed by Said: >> >> It is a good thing for these great nations [the oriental nations] - I admit their greatness- that this absolute government should be exercised by us? I think it is a good thing. I think that the experience shows that they have got under it far better government than in the whole history of the world they ever had before, and which not only is a benefit to the whole of the civilized West? We are in Egypt not merely for the sake of the Egyptians, though we are there for their sake; we are there also for the sake of Europe at large. (Edward W. Said, Orientalism, Penguin Books 1962, p. 33) [my emphasis] >> >> Shortly after landing in Cyprus in the autumn of 1954, the Briton Charles Foley, Director of the ?Times of Cyprus? from 1954 to 1960, finds Lawrence Durrell waiting for him in a Nicosia hotel to give him the ?official point of view?. In Foleys? words: >> >> Back at the hotel, I found Mr. Lawrence Durrell, the poet, who had lately taken over the post of Government Information Officer after a spell as a Pancyprian Gymnasium teacher. Durrell was short and square, with rock crystal eyes set in a craggy face and the grin of a good-natured satyr. He had been told to see that I understood the official point of view. No nation was more devoted to the principle of self-determination than our own, but in Cyprus it was simply ?not on?. The long chain of British withdrawals of which the last was from the Suez base, must now end: the island would be held for the sake of the Western Alliance, and, of course, for the Cypriots themselves [?] it could undermine the Eastern bastion of N.A.T.O and depress living standards which were now on the rise as illustrated by the number of bars opened for the troops (Island in Revolt, Longmans 1962 p. 11-12) [my emphasis] >> >> Unless we are going to accuse Said and Foley of lying, the resemblance of Durrell?s position to Balfour?s, after the elapse of half a century, worsened by the reference to the newly opened bordellos for the troops is, to say the least, striking. >> >> Adding to the above, Durrell?s little known letter to the Governor of Cyprus on Feb.17 1954 (my post to this List, Oct 25 2015), the point raised by Richard Pine that suspecting LD?s philhellenism, thoughts, and actions is a Greek or Cypriot prejudice does not hold. >> >> I did not yet read Mindscapes, but I find Pine?s recognition of Durrell?s ?financial reasons to work for the British?, ?taking their money against his better judgment? and his ?head and heart Agon?, interesting and new. This does not change the reading of Bitter Lemons of Cyprus as a na?ve attempt to whitewash the criminal handling of the so-called Cyprus Emergency by the British officialdom. In an interview with the Aegean Review in the fall of 1987 Durrell confessed >> >> But I?ve been progressively disgusted with our double-facedness in politics over situations like the Greek situation. Remember I?ve worked as an official in Cyprus on that disgusting situation which was entirely engineered by us, do you see? (C. Hitchens, 'Hostage to History' , Verso ed. 1997, p.3) [my emphasis] >> >> Be it as it may, erecting brass-busts or, for the difference it makes, bas-reliefs, in the Boschetto of Corfu to honor the philhellene, or the philhellenese Lawrence Durrell (David Roessel, Letters of Lawrence Durrell to Austen Harrison, Deus Loci, NS3 1994, p. 11) remains a curious post-colonial paradox. >> >> PG >> >> >> From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net >> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:14:39 -0700 >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net >> Subject: Re: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe >> >> What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? >> >> Bruce >> >> >> On Mar 30, 2016, at 6:11 AM, david wilde wrote: >> >> RE Panhellenism. Arch-bishop Makarios was a thorn in the British Establishment side and forced the polarisation of views to be exacerbated. Bitter Lemons exposes this polarisation in time and in memories -at least in my own memory of the period which are and still will remain vivid for the rest of my life of my boyhood days growing up under the empire driven mantle of this post war tectonic era! David Wilde >> From: ILDS on behalf of Richard Pine >> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:41 PM >> To: pan.gero at hotmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe >> >> As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. >> I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) >> I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. >> But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. >> I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. >> One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. >> RP >> ---------------------- >> Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. >> Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: >> This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. >> In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). >> Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. >> I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. >> Panayotis Gerontopoulos >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 10:08:37 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 10:08:37 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: <104D580D-6363-41EB-928F-AE8D9F5B309D@gmail.com> References: <5F0782BD-89E7-40B4-A2E5-A1BD9B97D433@earthlink.net> <78A3AC6F-23A6-47AC-B9C4-E94DF2E487EB@gmail.com> <104D580D-6363-41EB-928F-AE8D9F5B309D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <57014E15.60702@gmail.com> Hi Robin, I posted a query about the book in February, but I haven't had a chance to take a look yet (I get a digital edition through my campus library). Notably, he does make this comment about support for the Turkish position: "I fear a conflation of Durrell's actual work for the authorities and the memoir he leaves us about Cyprus.... Durrell was doing no more than merely going through the motions" I'm glad to see he's reading Petra Tournay in the same chapter. I'd also tend to note the ironical tone in the Aegean Review interview. All best, James On 2016-04-03 9:50 AM, Robin Collins wrote: > Skimming through Google I saw an excerpt from Bowman's Narratives of > Cyprus that is squarely on the same topic, and much critical of LD. > Is/was Bowman known to others? > >> Book blurb: Unease has marked relations between modern travel writers >> and the people of Cyprus. Visitors like Lawrence Durrell, Colin >> Thubron, Christopher Hitchens and Sebastian Junger have registered the >> effects of political strife on both the people of the island and those >> who visit from abroad. Their accounts demonstrate how geopolitical >> realities--such as colonization, insurgency, inter-communal warfare, >> and now decades of militarized 'peace'--shape the narrating self and >> its relations to others. Here, Jim Bowman assesses the effects of >> Cypriot history on writings about the island through an analysis of >> memoirs, travelogues, political journalism, guide books and >> ethnographies. Through this examination of popular texts, Bowman shows >> how a western and politicized image of Cyprus has been created, >> increasingly divorced from the realities experienced by the local >> population. Narratives of Cyprus is an important reassessment of >> Cyprus' place in British culture, and will be of interest to scholars >> and students of Anthropology, English Literature and Ethnographic Studies. > > Robin From mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org Sun Apr 3 10:16:03 2016 From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 17:16:03 +0000 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 12 Message-ID: We sent this from our new address but as it was not posted we are sending it again Maria Vlachou Secretary Durrell Library of Corfu PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW EMAIL: DURRELLLIBRARYCORFU at gmail.com Richard PineMar 31 (3 days ago) to ilds-request Has anyone picked up on the fact that during its run, three interviewees chose the Alexandria Quartet as their one permitted book (Danny Blanchflower, 1960; Robert carrier, 1987; Iain Duncan Smith, 2002) and two chose My Family and Other Animals (Joan Burnett, 1963; Stephen Poliakoff, 2005). RP ps this is the new address for Durrell Library of Corfu -----Original Message----- From: ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 09:00 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 12 Send ILDS mailing list submissions to ilds at lists.uvic.caTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ildsor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ilds-request at lists.uvic.caYou can reach the person managing the list at ilds-owner at lists.uvic.caWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mr. Esposito (Denise Tart & David Green) 2. Re: Mr. Esposito (james Esposito) 3. Reading Literature (Bruce Redwine)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 07:55:35 +1100From: Denise Tart & David Green To: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] Mr. EspositoMessage-ID: <75E74CB0-0481-41E1-8B8B-21F86603D629 at bigpond.net.au>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein.David WhitewineSent from my iPad> On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:16 AM, Frederick Schoff wrote:> > > This matches my own experience. I found my literature classes in college stultifying. I would show up with enthusiasm after reading, say, Faulkner or Woolf, and left wondering 'What book(s) did these people read?'. They were too busy talking about various references (presumably to show their erudition) to discuss the actual book. I was only bored, and bid adieu to lit classes. One reason I like Durrell so much is that he seems unique.> > >> On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:17 AM, james Esposito wrote:>> >> What teacher employs a 'method'? My view of teaching literature does not amount to a 'method'! It is a way of looking at texts without recourse to the opinions and aesthetic perceptions of any except the teacher and his/her students.>> I do not argue with the view that a text can be explicated, teased out, probed, but it is like a mine - you delve in to extract whatever ore you can discover, not what a mineralogist tells you to discover. A good teacher shows you the way - hands you a drill, even a stick of dynamite! but essentially the relationship is you and the text. >> When - many years ago! - I was a student our teacher presented us with Eliot's The Waste Land and pointed us towards Jessie Weston's "From Ritual to Romance" - why? because Eliot makes specific reference to her work, and suddenly a whole world of the Grail Quest, the meaning of the Waste Land and the Fisher King, was opened up to us. But Weston was an integral part of the poem, not an external aid to comprehension. We needed nothing other than what was on the page and what stood behind the page. >> That same teacher offered us what he referred to as 'a medieval maxim','Man by the exercise of his free will fulfils the pattern of his destiny'. I have spent sixty years trying to find the source of that, and failing, but I never cease to bless the man who provided it. (Does anyone know its source?)>> Of course we need to discuss what is 'meant' by the text. Keats's (and I refer to the author of 'Ode to a Nightingale', not Durrell's character!) 'beauty is truth, truth beauty...' could occupy a reader delightfully for a lifetime and never yield its meaning, but no amount of help from Messieurs Derrida or Ricoeur can make an iota of difference to our own judgement. I think many critics suffer from a lack of an ability to make judgements of their own, and fall back vicariously on sources like les messieurs (for whom I do have considerable respect) rather than make the big jump towards shaping their own innate aesthetic.>> James Esposito>> >> >>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:>>> I don't think your method will result in much enlightenment.>>> >>> Bruce>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone>>> >>>> On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:08 AM, james Esposito wrote:>>>> >>>> I am very sorry indeed to learn that you disagree with the following statement:>>>> "Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world.">>>> James Esposito>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:>>>>> This whole approach seems to me a grossly oversimplified approach to the appreciation and teaching of literature, which after all is not some exercise in logical positivism. Words are tricky and not reducible to pat meanings, and how writers use words is even far more complex. So I disagree with all your statements.>>>>> >>>>> Bruce>>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 25, 2016, at 1:58 AM, james Esposito wrote:>>>>>> >>>>>> By 'teaching their students how to enjoy texts' I meant that I see the principal purpose of teaching as the widening of students' appreciation of their chosen subject, be it literature, science or any other discipline. Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give them a better understanding of themselves and the world. That may seem very old-fashioned but I think such purposes are diminished by what Keats called (paraphrase) unnecessary reaching out for reason - that is, the searching for explanations of what, ultimately, cannot be explained - credo quia absurdum. We owe it to ourselves and others (we, being teachers, writers and readers) to focus primarily on what the texts say, not what they don't say, or what a critic may think they say.>>>>>> James Esposito>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:>>>>>>> I wonder what it means ?to enjoy texts?? Isn?t that what we?re doing? I think James Gifford is on target. And I, a non-academic, thank him for his insights, which increase my enjoyment. Keep it up, James!>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bruce>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:32 PM, james Esposito wrote:>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > I perhaps did not make myself clear on the subject of Durrell's relationship to the modernists. Of course he was well aware of the Eliots, Huxleys, etc, but what I meant was that we should not necessarily assume 'the anxiety of influence' - the fact that there are echoes of Eliot etc in Durrell's work does not allow us to infer that he deliberately set out to imitate them or to make obvious references to them - merely that, as a (still) apprentice writer in the first 2 novels he was setting out his own stall, not theirs.>>>>>>> > And as for Keats, if I remember correctly, he got killed.>>>>>>> > As for the mud bricks, I think it's completely far-fetched to read political persuasions into the fact that Durrell referred to a basic building material. They were just mud-bricks, not political slogans.>>>>>>> > I think there is far too much time and effort spent on trying to analyse what Durrell may or may not have ingested into his writer's subconscious. It may be an amusing pastime for academics, but they should be teaching their students how to enjoy texts and not how to tear them apart. It isn't 'hunting of the snark' territory.>>>>>>> > James Esposito>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>>>>>> ILDS mailing list>>>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________>>>>>> ILDS mailing list>>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________>>>>> ILDS mailing list>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________>>>> ILDS mailing list>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>> >>> _______________________________________________>>> ILDS mailing list>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>> >> >> _______________________________________________>> ILDS mailing list>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 2Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 12:19:07 +0300From: james Esposito To: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] Mr. EspositoMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"I can only comment as a reader who was in the classroom many decades before"theory" came out of the philosophy closet and into the literaturedepartment store. I grew up relishing stories for what they told me aboutthe world. As I gained in insight I realised their deeper significanceabout the human condition. This was achieved without assistance from anyliterary theorists. Literary historians, yes, of course: those for examplewho can trace the history of an idea or a genre. But not those who theorisefor the sake of it, and certainly not those who take a novel as evidence ofthe proof of a theory. If someone cleverer than I can show me how a theorycan prove the truth of a novel, I admire it. But the converse seems to meunnecessary.After practising as a corporate lawyer for many years I remain an amateurreader whose life has been enriched from earliest days by the wonder ofstories, written by men and women of great imagination. What M. Derrida hasto say about them leaves me cold.I regret that I cannot be more enthusiastic about something that obviouslyexcites many young people, but even Prof Eagleton has, I understand,withdrawn his promotion of "theory" in recent years, realising, perhaps,the primacy of the text.James EspositoOn Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:> Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly.> Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to> be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world> was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention> alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I> discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The> quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other> books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which> the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote.> And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between> reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate> literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers> rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a> wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books> often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to> mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein.>> David Whitewine>> Sent from my iPad>> On 27 Mar 2016, at 5:16 AM, Frederick Schoff > wrote:>>> This matches my own experience. I found my literature classes in college> stultifying. I would show up with enthusiasm after reading, say, Faulkner> or Woolf, and left wondering 'What book(s) did these people read?'. They> were too busy talking about various references (presumably to show their> erudition) to discuss the actual book. I was only bored, and bid adieu to> lit classes. One reason I like Durrell so much is that he seems unique.>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:17 AM, james Esposito > wrote:>> What teacher employs a 'method'? My view of teaching literature does not> amount to a 'method'! It is a way of looking at texts without recourse to> the opinions and aesthetic perceptions of any except the teacher and> his/her students.> I do not argue with the view that a text can be explicated, teased out,> probed, but it is like a mine - you delve in to extract whatever ore you> can discover, not what a mineralogist tells you to discover. A good teacher> shows you the way - hands you a drill, even a stick of dynamite! but> essentially the relationship is you and the text.> When - many years ago! - I was a student our teacher presented us with> Eliot's The Waste Land and pointed us towards Jessie Weston's "From Ritual> to Romance" - why? because Eliot makes specific reference to her work, and> suddenly a whole world of the Grail Quest, the meaning of the Waste Land> and the Fisher King, was opened up to us. But Weston was an integral part> of the poem, not an external aid to comprehension. We needed nothing other> than what was on the page and what stood behind the page.> That same teacher offered us what he referred to as 'a medieval> maxim','Man by the exercise of his free will fulfils the pattern of his> destiny'. I have spent sixty years trying to find the source of that, and> failing, but I never cease to bless the man who provided it. (Does anyone> know its source?)> Of course we need to discuss what is 'meant' by the text. Keats's (and I> refer to the author of 'Ode to a Nightingale', not Durrell's character!)> 'beauty is truth, truth beauty...' could occupy a reader delightfully for a> lifetime and never yield its meaning, but no amount of help from Messieurs> Derrida or Ricoeur can make an iota of difference to our own judgement. I> think many critics suffer from a lack of an ability to make judgements of> their own, and fall back vicariously on sources like les messieurs (for> whom I do have considerable respect) rather than make the big jump towards> shaping their own innate aesthetic.> James Esposito>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Redwine > wrote:>>> I don't think your method will result in much enlightenment.>>>> Bruce>>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>> On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:08 AM, james Esposito >> wrote:>>>> I am very sorry indeed to learn that you disagree with the following>> statement:>> "Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to>> give them a better understanding of themselves and the world.">> James Esposito>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Redwine <>> bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:>>>>> This whole approach seems to me a grossly oversimplified approach to the>>> appreciation and teaching of literature, which after all is not some>>> exercise in logical positivism. Words are tricky and not reducible to pat>>> meanings, and how writers use words is even far more complex. So I>>> disagree with all your statements.>>>>>> Bruce>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2016, at 1:58 AM, james Esposito >>> wrote:>>>>>> By 'teaching their students how to enjoy texts' I meant that I see the>>> principal purpose of teaching as the widening of students' appreciation of>>> their chosen subject, be it literature, science or any other discipline.>>> Education surely exists to enlighten young minds (and older!) and to give>>> them a better understanding of themselves and the world. That may seem very>>> old-fashioned but I think such purposes are diminished by what Keats called>>> (paraphrase) unnecessary reaching out for reason - that is, the searching>>> for explanations of what, ultimately, cannot be explained - credo quia>>> absurdum. We owe it to ourselves and others (we, being teachers, writers>>> and readers) to focus primarily on what the texts say, not what they don't>>> say, or what a critic may think they say.>>> James Esposito>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Bruce Redwine <>>> bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:>>>>>>> I wonder what it means ?to enjoy texts?? Isn?t that what we?re doing?>>>> I think James Gifford is on target. And I, a non-academic, thank him for>>>> his insights, which increase my enjoyment. Keep it up, James!>>>>>>>> Bruce>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:32 PM, james Esposito <>>>> giacomoesposito72 at gmail.com> wrote:>>>> >>>>> > I perhaps did not make myself clear on the subject of Durrell's>>>> relationship to the modernists. Of course he was well aware of the Eliots,>>>> Huxleys, etc, but what I meant was that we should not necessarily assume>>>> 'the anxiety of influence' - the fact that there are echoes of Eliot etc in>>>> Durrell's work does not allow us to infer that he deliberately set out to>>>> imitate them or to make obvious references to them - merely that, as a>>>> (still) apprentice writer in the first 2 novels he was setting out his own>>>> stall, not theirs.>>>> > And as for Keats, if I remember correctly, he got killed.>>>> > As for the mud bricks, I think it's completely far-fetched to read>>>> political persuasions into the fact that Durrell referred to a basic>>>> building material. They were just mud-bricks, not political slogans.>>>> > I think there is far too much time and effort spent on trying to>>>> analyse what Durrell may or may not have ingested into his writer's>>>> subconscious. It may be an amusing pastime for academics, but they should>>>> be teaching their students how to enjoy texts and not how to tear them>>>> apart. It isn't 'hunting of the snark' territory.>>>> > James Esposito>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> ILDS mailing list>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> ILDS mailing list>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> ILDS mailing list>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> ILDS mailing list>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> ILDS mailing list>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>>>> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 3Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 11:03:06 -0700From: Bruce Redwine To: Sumantra Nag Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] Reading LiteratureMessage-ID: <08CDBAA5-609E-437F-9153-79639ECCA6BC at gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"I agree with David Green about how we go about reading literature. Academia has come in for a lot of criticism lately, but with respect to Lawrence Durrell, I?d like to point out what happened on this Listserv many years ago. From about 2007 to 2008 (my dates are probably wrong), the List held a reading of Justine open to all-comers. It was a close reading of the text, section by section. The response was overwhelming; on an average day, I?d get about 40-50 emails on a given topic. Those readings (most exchanges civil, some not) changed my views of Durrell?s most famous novel. The discussions were moderated by William Godshalk, Charles Sligh, and James Gifford?all academics. They did not impose their views, rather they offered their opinions and interpretations. They all did a marvelous job, and I imagine they handled themselves on the List as they would in their classrooms. So, let?s put a little perspective on what academia can do at its best in the study of liter! ature.Bruce> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:> > Whack, pow, thud, academics cop another hit: teaching English lit badly. Well yes, I had that experience too but mainly because the texts seemed to be a pretext for teaching the socialist advance. But the scholarly world was a wonderful place full of books and bars and broads, not too mention alliteration and it here amongst all these appalling scholars that I discovered Wilde, Keats, Whitman etc and Lawrence George Durrell. The quartet I knew about, my mum had the set, but there were all these other books too. Durrell is unique for sure, a great writer and personality which the ilds, composed of many academics as I gather, has done much to promote. > And yes, we may teach literature through a direct relationship between reader and text (a very Puritan approach) but this does not invalidate literary criticism, much of which is in fact very good, or context. Writers rarely exist in a vacuum. Much as Larry liked islands he too was part of a wider world which I sometimes think he did not like very much. His books often strike me as a revolt against the present, the future. I intend to mine Tunc and Nunquam in this vein.> > David Whitewine> > Sent from my iPad> -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________ILDS mailing listILDS at lists.uvic.cahttps://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds------------------------------End of ILDS Digest, Vol 107, Issue 12************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Apr 3 13:54:30 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 13:54:30 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe In-Reply-To: References: <5F0782BD-89E7-40B4-A2E5-A1BD9B97D433@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Current ?postcolonial? studies owes much to Edward W. Said and his influential study Orientalism (1978). He was not the first to write on the topic. This line of argument has many antecedents, including the writings of Antonio Gramsci (1891-1937) and Frantz Fanon (1925-1961). Said, however, popularized a major field of discourse in today?s academy. Gerontopoulos misrepresents my point about A. J. Balfour?s and HMG?s position on Egypt. Balfour?s statement is one view, highly patronizing, but there were opposing views, which Said ignores. As I said previously on 26 October 2015 (appended below), my problems with Said are his lack of historical perspective, the one-sidedness of his arguments, and his penchant for making categorial statements, which border on the absurd. In short, despite his background as a Palestinian exile and being the victim of British racism in Egypt, I find his method too biased and tendentious, no matter how just the cause. Said would identify imperialism in Egypt as beginning with the French invasion of 1798. He would ignore the Arab Conquest of 640-41 and all that it entailed?the radical transformation of over 3000 years of Egyptian culture. So, it?s not hard to conclude that Said sees European colonials as bad exploiters and modern Egyptians as hapless victims. His method is totalizing?he sees only black and white. Postcolonialism in the academy has some pernicious consequences. In a recent article on Joseph Conrad in PMLA, the premier journal of American literary studies, we find this first sentence: ?Critics tend to agree that Joseph Conrad?s novels engage in a critique of imperialism, but, given the novels? pervasive racism the nature of that critique persist as a source of debate in postcolonial studies? (Regina Martin, ?Absentee Capitalism and the Politics of Conrad?s Imperial Novels,? PMLA 130.3 [2015]: 584). ?Critics? do not tend to agree on Conrad?s ?racism? (read an eminent critic like Ian Watt on Conrad and the authoritative Oxford Reader?s Companion to Conrad) but Martin would have it so. So we now have it taken as a given that Conrad was a racist. I call this pernicious. Something similar seems to be happening to Lawrence Durrell on Cyprus, which is why I brought in Edward Said and the postcolonial view of the island during the 1950s. As to Durrell?s Bitter Lemons, calling the book a ?whitewash? of British policy is far, far too simplistic and another misreading of a complicated text written by an author who was deeply conflicted and troubled. Gerontopoulos?s rhetoric seems to me in keeping with postcolonial tendencies as described above. I think Richard Pine describes Durrell?s position well. His was ?an agon of head and heart,? as Pine argues. Durrell may have defended HMG?s position on Cyprus to Charles Foley in 1954, but what was he to do as a representative of the British Government? It is utterly naive to think he should have contravened the duties of his office. I assume Durrell took an oath of some sort as Director of Information Services for the Cyprus (British) Government. Either one fulfills one?s oath or one leaves, which is what Durrell eventually did after sadly realizing, ?I had achieved nothing? (MacNiven?s biography, 440). Bruce > On Apr 3, 2016, at 6:48 AM, Panaiotis Gerontopoulos wrote: > > On March 30 2016, Bruce Redwine wrote to this List under the heading ?Bitter Lemons and Academe?: > > What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? > > The phrase sounds obscure to the ears of a green grocer as I am. Who, the hell, did say that? Redwine acknowledges the departed Edward Said, as a ?major critical voice in the twentieth century? but blames him of seeking to > > Paint the British and the West as behaving deliberately and categorically, in an overbearing dominant and racist way. Said?s method is typically Marxist. (This List, ?Said and Marx?, this List, Monday, 26 Oct 2015) > > and, to reinforce the argument, calls in help the historian Niall Ferguson: > > The central nationalist/Marxist assumption is, of course, that imperialism was economically exploitative: every facet of colonial rule, including even the apparently sincere efforts of Europeans to study and understand indigenous cultures, was at root designed to maximize the surplus value that could be extracted from the subject peoples. > > As if it was not enough, Redwine blames Said for distorting the sayings of A. J. Balfour in a 1910 UK Parliament debate with the liberal J. M. Robertson. An illuminating passage of Balfour?s speech transcribed by Said: > > It is a good thing for these great nations [the oriental nations] - I admit their greatness- that this absolute government should be exercised by us? I think it is a good thing. I think that the experience shows that they have got under it far better government than in the whole history of the world they ever had before, and which not only is a benefit to the whole of the civilized West? We are in Egypt not merely for the sake of the Egyptians, though we are there for their sake; we are there also for the sake of Europe at large. (Edward W. Said, Orientalism, Penguin Books 1962, p. 33) [my emphasis] > > Shortly after landing in Cyprus in the autumn of 1954, the Briton Charles Foley, Director of the ?Times of Cyprus? from 1954 to 1960, finds Lawrence Durrell waiting for him in a Nicosia hotel to give him the ?official point of view?. In Foleys? words: > > Back at the hotel, I found Mr. Lawrence Durrell, the poet, who had lately taken over the post of Government Information Officer after a spell as a Pancyprian Gymnasium teacher. Durrell was short and square, with rock crystal eyes set in a craggy face and the grin of a good-natured satyr. He had been told to see that I understood the official point of view. No nation was more devoted to the principle of self-determination than our own, but in Cyprus it was simply ?not on?. The long chain of British withdrawals of which the last was from the Suez base, must now end: the island would be held for the sake of the Western Alliance, and, of course, for the Cypriots themselves [?] it could undermine the Eastern bastion of N.A.T.O and depress living standards which were now on the rise as illustrated by the number of bars opened for the troops (Island in Revolt, Longmans 1962 p. 11-12) [my emphasis] > > Unless we are going to accuse Said and Foley of lying, the resemblance of Durrell?s position to Balfour?s, after the elapse of half a century, worsened by the reference to the newly opened bordellos for the troops is, to say the least, striking. > > Adding to the above, Durrell?s little known letter to the Governor of Cyprus on Feb.17 1954 (my post to this List, Oct 25 2015), the point raised by Richard Pine that suspecting LD?s philhellenism, thoughts, and actions is a Greek or Cypriot prejudice does not hold. > > I did not yet read Mindscapes, but I find Pine?s recognition of Durrell?s ?financial reasons to work for the British?, ?taking their money against his better judgment? and his ?head and heart Agon?, interesting and new. This does not change the reading of Bitter Lemons of Cyprus as a na?ve attempt to whitewash the criminal handling of the so-called Cyprus Emergency by the British officialdom. In an interview with the Aegean Review in the fall of 1987 Durrell confessed > > But I?ve been progressively disgusted with our double-facedness in politics over situations like the Greek situation. Remember I?ve worked as an official in Cyprus on that disgusting situation which was entirely engineered by us, do you see? (C. Hitchens, 'Hostage to History' , Verso ed. 1997, p.3) [my emphasis] > > Be it as it may, erecting brass-busts or, for the difference it makes, bas-reliefs, in the Boschetto of Corfu to honor the philhellene, or the philhellenese Lawrence Durrell (David Roessel, Letters of Lawrence Durrell to Austen Harrison, Deus Loci, NS3 1994, p. 11) remains a curious post-colonial paradox. > > PG > > > From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:14:39 -0700 > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe > > What?s the ?postcolonial? take on Cyprus, ? la Edward Said? The Brits and Turks are bad? The Greeks are good? > > Bruce > > > On Mar 30, 2016, at 6:11 AM, david wilde > wrote: > > RE Panhellenism. Arch-bishop Makarios was a thorn in the British Establishment side and forced the polarisation of views to be exacerbated. Bitter Lemons exposes this polarisation in time and in memories -at least in my own memory of the period which are and still will remain vivid for the rest of my life of my boyhood days growing up under the empire driven mantle of this post war tectonic era! David Wilde > From: ILDS > on behalf of Richard Pine > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:41 PM > To: pan.gero at hotmail.com ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] Bitter Lemons and Academe > > As the Durrell Library mailbox is temporarily unable to transmit messages I am sending this from my personal mailbox. > I find myself in the curious position of both agreeing and disagreeing with Panayiotis (his message is below) > I agree with both him and James Esposito about the need to avoid technical jargon and obscure theories when discussing literary texts - except perhaps when they, the theory-critics, are doing so amongst themselves and not in front of the students. > But I disagree with Panayiotis' views on Durrell's philhellenism.While I can understand any Greek (and especially of course a Cypriot) suspecting LD's thoughts and actions, as a member of the British 'occupation' of Cyprus whose job was to bolster the British fight against the enotists, I think Panayiotis is wrong to assume that LD was not a philhellene. He certainly came from a colonial background but there is plentiful evidence of his rejection of much of the Raj's purpose. I am certain of two things in his position in Cyprus: 1) he was obliged for financial reasons to work for the British and 2) he loved Greece and the Greeks all his life. The excerpts from his private notes which I quote in my book, regarding his view of the way the British were handling the enosis situation, convince me that he was reluctantly taking the money against his better judgement. A very clear parallel can be drawn between LD's attitude in Cyprus and that of W E Gladstone in the Ionian Islands in the 1850s when he was sent to assess the enotist situation here. As a philhellene he believed that these islands should join the state of Greece; as a British government minister he was responsible for maintaining the link with Britain. In both cases, it was an agon of head and heart. > I do not see "Bitter Lemons" as a whitewash - it is clear to me, as a philhellene myself, resident in Corfu, that the book reflected this head-heart agon. It is also clear to me that it rightly attracted criticism publicly from writers like Roufos and Montis and, privately, from Seferis. But that does not diminish LD's anguish at the situation in Cyprus nor does it invalidate his undoubted philhellenism. But it deepens the problem of fruitful Anglo-Greek relations. > One further point: yes, I (not 'Price') was responsible with Spiros Giourgas (correct spelling) in persuading the municipal authorities in Corfu to name the 'Bosketto', 'Bosketto Durrell' (not Durrell Park as , apparently, reported by Helena Smith in the Guardian). And subsequently a private sponsor paid for the placing of 2 bas-reliefs (not 'brass-busts') of the brothers Gerald and Lawrence in the Bosketto. This was not done by the municipality but it was done with their agreement. Panayiotis must surely be aware that Gerald loved Corfu, probably more than did his brother, because it meant almost everything to him in terms of what he achieved in adult life. > RP > ---------------------- > Whack, pow, thud. bang! Uurrah for teachers and critics, beware of and shame to irriverent grocers and pub-tenants dealing with high literature seated on their toilets where they belong. We heard all this, in this List in the few past days. The fact is that nobody put in question the need to have teachers and critics, provided they base their teachings and critiques on the contents of a text and on what we know about the circumstances under which the author wrote it. In other words in plain words, understandable by the "common reader"and the next door grocer. They are not so stupid after all. What is to avoid is to speak about simple texts using high flown words and post-modern lingos neglecting solidly established facts. > Good examples of the accomplisments of this school of thaught are the various readings of Bitter Lemons as a marvellous travel book, taking in serious the first words written in 1957 by Lawrence Durrell in his preface: > This is not a political book, but simply a somewhat impressionistic study of the moods and atmpspheres of Cyprus during the troubled years years 1953-1956. > In 1957, the atmosphere in Cyprus continued to be troubled and in December, Bitter Lemons won for its author the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize. The Queen Mother told him during the ad hoc ceremony held at Kensington Palace that she had enjoyed the book and Lord Salisbury, top exponent of the ultra-conservative Tories asking for tougher measures against the revolted Cyps, disected the book with a tender little speech (Mac Niven, A Biography, 464). > Actually, Bitter Lemons was an awkward attempt to white-wash the blind British policies in dealing with the decades-old demand of Greeks (including Cavafy) and Creek-Cypriots for self determination. Durrell was not a policy-maker and he is not to blame if he lied for his country but make of him a Philhellene is quite another story. Nonetheless, at the insistance of Dr. Spyros Georgas, "physician of elderly British aristocrats and retired civil servants who moved in the island from India in the 50s and 60s" and Richard Price [Pine?] director of the Durrell School of Corfu, the Bosketto Park of Corfu was renamed in 2006 Durrell Park (Helena Smith, the Guardian, September 22, 2006). In addition, in 2008, the Municipality of Corfu erected in the Park two brass-busts to honor furtherly the two authors and philhellene brothers. > I believe that if Bitter Lemons were read with the pragmatism of a grocer, taking into account Durrell's letter to the Governor of Cyprus on February 17 1954, published by Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotaki this embarassing situation could have been avoided and if only they could both brothers would agree. > Panayotis Gerontopoulos > * * * * * 10/26/2016 James, I would say that Edward Said deviates in Orientalism (1978) from standard Marxist practice in that he sees colonial intentions as originating independently of economic and political conditions (the usual way of acquiring knowledge in ?historical materialism?). Those ?intentions? include knowledge of the Orient, which predates by centuries (back to the Middle Ages) European colonialism (pp. 61ff). It might be better to call this kind of knowledge a form of ?discourse,? Said?s preferred term, which he borrows from Foucault. In Said?s framework, colonial intentions are deliberately exploitive in the same way that Niall Ferguson defines Marxist assumptions in his book Empire. Of course, I could be wrong. Said is not always clear in what he is doing. Nevertheless, when you read the opening section to Orientalism (?Knowing the Orient?), you see how he constructs his argument. He emphasizes British presumptuousness of knowing Egypt (Balfour?s speech) and deemphasizes British concerns about maintaining order in the country and preparing it for self-government (Robertson?s and other?s speeches). It?s instructive to read the entire debate in the British Parliament on 13 June 1910, which I assume Said read in full. The debate is long, about thirty pages of single-spaced text. In 1910 the Liberals under H. H. Asquith won the election but without a majority of seats. It was a ?hung parliament.? The Conservatives were led by A. J. Balfour. The long debate concerned unrest in Egypt, for which the British were ?trustees,? i.e., de facto rulers. As trustees, the Brits, under the authority of Eldon Gorst, HM?s Consul-General in Egypt, were preparing the Egyptians for self-rule. (The previous British CG was E. B. Cromer, who opposed Egyptian nationalism.) Earlier in 1910, the Egyptian PM Butros Ghali (a Copt) had been assassinated, calling into question the Liberal policy of granting the Egyptians greater self-government. All the while, Egyptian Nationalists were agitating and creating problems for the British. In brief, the Tories criticized HMG for being too lax and permissive, whereas the Liberals denied those charges and argued for Egyptian self-government or, in Robertson?s words, ?that you [the British] should in Egypt fulfill your promises of fitting the people gradually to govern themselves ? in accordance with the whole decencies of British policy.? Said makes no mention of ?the whole decencies of British policy.? Instead, he narrowly focuses on Balfour, the Tory leader, and his comparatively short and obviously presumptuous speech: ?We know the civilisation of Egypt better than we know the civilisation of any other country.? Said takes Balfour?s declaration (along with E. B. Cromer?s management of Egypt) as representative of a ?general theory? or Western attitude about ?Oriental civilization?: ?There are Westerners, and there are Orientals. The former dominate; the latter must be dominated? (p. 36). Said?s method strikes me as tendentious. He lacks historical perspective. It?s like looking at the American war in Vietnam, ignoring the massive protest movement in the late 60s, and then saying President Johnson and his generals had the only view on that war. I doubt there were massive protests in the UK in 1910, but the Liberals had another take on the British occupation of Egypt, which was clearly stated in the official record. 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