From sumantranag at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 02:25:21 2016 From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 15:55:21 +0530 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 15 Message 6 James Gifford_Linda Rashidi's book Message-ID: I should like to mention that it was Gulshan Taneja who drew my attention to Linda's book '(Re)constructing Reality, Complexity in Lawrence Durrell's Alexandria Quartet', 2005, Peter Lang. Inc., New York. (Studies in Twentieth-Century British Literature.) Sumantra ----------------------- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 23:09:15 -0800 From: James Gifford To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 15_Message 5_David Green Message-ID: <5675029B.2010801 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hello Sumantra, Linda's book is fascinating, and there are 20 years of her articles prior to it in a similar vein. The linguistic work was very helpful to a reader response project I was involved with several years ago. I wonder if there are two ways of approaching things too. There's the text /as text/, meaning as an art object built in a process for specific purposes, and then there's the text as an expression of the author's mind. The French have emphasized the latter in critique g?n?tique while the Americans have leaned more to the former in bibliographical work. If memory serves me correctly, Linda made a fascinating comparison of the opening passages of each novel based on their linguistic traits > In an introductory chapter the book also places the Quartet in the > context of Durrell's professed philosophical references, including > relativity and Groddeck's psychological framework. I must admit that I'm of two minds on this, and perhaps Linda will offer us her comments. There have been a handful of interesting works on Durrell and Groddeck (and of course Durrell's "Studies in Genius" piece on him) -- the University of Victoria has one of Durrell's heavily annotated copies of Groddeck, and I was lucky enough to copy his markings in another in private hands. There's the sense that Durrell borrows a philosophy from these works but also the practical matter of his borrowing plots from the case studies. Semira's nose, for instance, is taken from UVic's /The Unknown Self/ (a tricky title since it's the same words in German we could also render as "The Unconscious Ego," just as "It" and "Id" are the same word). As for relativity, Beatrice Skordili did excellent work retracing Durrell's readings on the topic (I believe he read via Bertrand Russell's /ABC of Relativity/, but I'd need to check Beatrice's work on that). > It is very likely that this perfunctory summary of Linda Rashidi's book > is superfluous and that many on the ILDS Forum are familiar with the > publication. But I felt I should draw attention to this work, and > David's post, referring to the development of Durrell's writing in his > successive books, provided me with a tenuous context against which to do > so! I don't think Linda's book has received the discussion it deserves, and David's post certainly points to that accrual over time that seems so vital to Durrell's works as a whole as well as his writing method with the "quarry" books and revision over time (as much a theme in the Quartet as it was his own work method). I'm more inclined to think of Ruth in /Pied Piper/ becoming Gracie in /The Black Book/ becoming Melissa in the /Quartet/ becoming Iolanthe in /Revolt/, etc..., but I think that's the same point you're both gesturing to (right?). Personally, I tend to regard that theme as emerging from the writerly practice such that the thematic contents are an expression of the writing (and not so much the writing as an expression of the conceptual preoccupation). I have 2004 listed as the publication date in my copy of Linda's book, which is probably when I last read it... I'd be glad to have a reason to turn back to the book for the list! All best, James Sent from my Asus Zenfone Sent from my Asus Zenfone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.gero at hotmail.com Mon Jan 4 07:59:04 2016 From: pan.gero at hotmail.com (Panaiotis Gerontopoulos) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 17:59:04 +0200 Subject: [ilds] Pope Joan In-Reply-To: <1913EAC0-8D50-41D2-8930-D4E8207DFDFB@earthlink.net> References: , <715E4FE9-45FD-4195-BAD5-5DFBCBF83B4D@earthlink.net>, <97A5AB8E-CAD0-4A78-A70F-8C41CD7AB3D3@gmail.com>, , <1913EAC0-8D50-41D2-8930-D4E8207DFDFB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Mr. Redwine When I say a thing, the thing is , does not appear to be. Ms. Loverdou and prof. Yatromanolakis' blogs can be read on line. Look for their names in the net, click ???????????, and continue to the indicated dates. Attached to Ms. Loverdou blog, see an insert reproducing a collection of Pope Joan's multicolored book-covers in English and other languages. They illustrate perfectly the 3 card game by Durrell & Editors: here is the writer, here is the translator, where is the writer ? My first publication regarding Roidis-Kriton-Durrell was presented, to no avail, to the International Lawrence Durrell Society-Aegean University Conference, held in Rhodes (27 June- 2 July 2004). For my publications regarding Roidis, see in the catalogues of the National Library of Greece. I have in preparation a new one titled: Pope Joan On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Cyprus 1953-1957. After sixty years questa festa ha da finir. P. Gerontopoulos From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 08:24:21 -0800 To: pan.gero at hotmail.com; ILDS at lists.uvic.ca CC: james.d.gifford at gmail.com; bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [ilds] Pope Joan Panaiotis, Thanks for the response and the references. I live 400 miles north of Los Angeles and rarely visit the city. I?ll keep your request in mind should I ever visit UCLA. A couple of questions. 1. Have you published your findings of Durrell?s ?theft? of Kriton?s translation of Roidis?s Papissa Ioanna? If so, please provide a full citation. 2. You mention what appears to be articles by Mirto Loverdou and Giorgis Giatromanolakis. Can you provide full citations to both? Many thanks, Bruce On Jan 3, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Panaiotis Gerontopoulos wrote:Thank you Allyson and Bruce Allyson, I would like to stress the fact that my post of 12/30/2015 was not intended to accuse Durrell for plagiarism in general. I don?t have neither the capacity nor the ambition for such a huge enterprise and as I have already pointed out before the good poet Durrell may well have made the theft into something better in other cases. I also think that Richard Pine?s view that all authors steal is fundamentally correct. It depends on how you do it. Bruce, Roidis stole from Byron (Don Juan) and Giovanni Battista Casti (La Papessa Giovanna) and was accused by his enemies to suffer from an unknown malady called castit?. Interestingly in the incipit of his translation-adaptation-transplantation text, Durrell hints to Roidis? borrowings from Byron ? Having offered love sufficient sacrifice??etc. You know the tag. Roidis did steal from Byron but he did it in such a way to alert the reader about the theft. In his times, plagiarism was legitimate if it was acknowledged, if the common reader was familiar with the primary source, and if in the new text the theft was improved [T.J. Mazzeo: Plagiarism and Literary Property in the Romantic Period, PENN 2007]. Mazzeo discusses exhaustively the topic and quotes various critics accusing Byron for stealing from the Papessa Giovanna of Casti. Regarding the accuracy of my claim of ?Pope Joan? being a carbon-copy of Kriton?s ?Papissa Joanna? let me say that the number of the 10 given examples could be easily brought to 30 or 40 but it would make a boring reading. Confusing the land breeze with the distant winds of the wide world, the monastic practice with the expression among monks, the ramparts of the fortresses with the quiet rooms of the castles, the matins of the nuns with their evening prayers etc. do not show adaptations from another source, but simply plagiarism at Kriton's expenses and, what counts more, defacing the Greek original. To realize what happened to the text of the unfortunate Roidis? one should read Anthony Hirst?s article ?The old poet of the city, Cavafy in Darley?s Alexandria? in Deus Loci NS8: Durrell?s fictions have been sometimes mistaken for fact and his translations for Cavafy?s poems. With the difference that while Cavafy?s poems have been faithfully translated several times, Roidis? book has never been faithfully translated into English (I can give you a complete bibliography) and remains totally unknown to the Anglophone reader unless he is able to read German: Paepstin Johanna, Eine Studie aus dem Mittelalter, translated by Paul Friedrich, Julius Zeitler, Leipzig 1904. Coming to Sokal?s Hoax, the parody ?Transgressing the boundaries: Towards a transformative hermeneutics of quantum gravity? published in Social Text was soon after revealed by the perpetrators. Durrell?s hoax survives after more than half a century since its first public appearance. Lately, there has been a tardive protest against Durrell?s appropriation of Roidis book (Mirto Loverdou, ?To Vima?, July 15 2014, and Giorgis Giatromanolakis, ?To Vima, July 16 2014) calling for a return of our Literary Elginians!!! For my part, I firmly believe that Roidis would not enjoy at all seeing his name printed on the front page of Durrell?s unintentional parody. Cheers, hoping to meet you all sometime. Panaiotis Bruce, I thing you live in California. Are you per chance somewhere near the UCLA? They conserve an important archive of Durrell-Stephanides correspondence concerning ?The Curious History of Pope Joan? copies of which I bought a long time ago and an exemplar the not issued 1948 edition with 13 beautiful engravings by John Buckland-Wright. ? thumbed through it in a great hurry at the British Library of London, and wonder if one could get copies of the engravings for not commercial use. They are important in understanding the history of Durrell's book. P.G. From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 16:24:08 -0800 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Pope Joan I think the standard procedure on this kind project today is to compile a sample set of similarities among translations (say, a body of works from Katharevousa to English) using a resource like Juxta or TaPoR to get a baseline of a normal range of duplication then contrasting a concordance of the differences among the Pope Joan translations. I think I made a suggestion along those lines in 2004, back when I did more digital humanities work, but I've never heard about any results. It should be pretty straight forward for anyone with a digital copy of the texts in question, and there are plenty of models to draw on for it. Cheers,James Sent from my iPad On Jan 1, 2016, at 9:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: Am I correct in summarizing P. Gerontopoulos?s argument as follows? Lawrence Durrell took T. D. Kriton?s translation of Emmanuel Roidis?s Papissa Ioanna (trans. copyrighted 1935) and used it, with minor ?adaptations,? along with its original errors, as the basis for his ?carbon-copy? translation of the novel? Briefly scanning the book, I do not see Durrell mentioning Kriton anywhere, even in the ?Shorter Bibliography? at the end. The title page of Pope Joan (New York: Dutton, 1961) indeed contains ?Translated from the Greek by Lawrence Durrell.? Yes, I would call this an example of plagiarism, if Gerontopoulos?s claim is accurate. (I?ll note, however, that translations will inevitably have similarities and that the examples below do not suggest a ?carbon-copy," rather ?adaptations? of another source.) Gerontopoulos mentions that Kriton?s translation was ?soon forgotten,? that is, fell into obscurity. This fits Durrell?s modus operandi. Bruce _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 14:57:26 2016 From: bredwine1968 at gmail.com (Bruce Redwine) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 14:57:26 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Death as Reality In-Reply-To: References: <5688B9F8.3080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <61FCD50C-8281-4E62-87B2-66C8BD7E612C@gmail.com> I append Richard Pine?s comment below. I agree with James Gifford that death is one of Durrell?s major concerns. I would argue that death in Durrell takes the form of suicide, his own in particular. Ian MacNiven at OMG in Vancouver had a telling anecdote about driving with him in Provence. Durrell would point to a tree and say something to the effect, ?Shall I drive into that one?? As to Catholics dismissing death because of belief in the Hereafter, I don?t believe it. I am a Catholic, and death?s reality is indisputable, unless you?re a child and think yourself immortal. As Wordsworth wrote, ?Nothing was more difficult for me in childhood than to admit the notion of death as a state applicable to my own being.? He grew up and changed his mind, however much he tried to compensate. Read the ode on ?Intimations of Immortality.? It?s not convincing. In Durrell, death is omnipresent. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org [mailto:mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org ] Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 10:04 AM To: 'Rony Alfandary' Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 22 Roman Catholics, of whom I am NOT one (and many other adherents of many other religions and faiths) would argue with you that death is not a reality, it is merely a membrane between one kind of idea and another, and therefore not real at all. I'm sure you will find Derrida'S posthumous "On Death" in your local library. (Only joking) Like others, I am so bored with these discussions and with the intransigence of the so-called intellectual community that I am devoting myself to more interesting and rewarding pursuits. This has been a waste of a fiction called "time!. RP > On Jan 3, 2016, at 1:49 AM, Rony Alfandary wrote: > > fascinating stuff. I know of Becker but never read that book. I am more acquainted with Rank's attempt to introduce the death anxiety both as a theoretical issue and as a practical measure to limit the length of psychoanalytic treatments. I shall try to get my hands on 'denial of death'/ > thanks, > rony > > > Rony Alfandary, Ph.D. > Clinical Social Worker > Postgraduate Program of Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy, Bar-Ilan University > Head of the Center for Therapeutic Professions, Seminar Hakibbutzim, Tel Aviv > > > On 3 January 2016 at 08:04, James Gifford > wrote: > Hi Rony, > > On 2016-01-02 9:28 PM, Rony Alfandary wrote: > there are some reality events, though, that can not be > regarded as fiction - death for instance. > > Death is a persistent anxiety in Durrell's works from the get go. The ankle bone sticking out of the funeral pyre in /Pied Piper of Lovers/ never, never goes away... The fear of a knock to a wrist or ankle even comes back late in the Quintet, still marking the anxiety around mortality. I've tried to deal with this a bit in my last book, /Personal Modernisms/, but I do think it's worth noting the meeting point between psychoanalytic thought (via Otto Rank) and modern cultural psychology (via the Terror Management Theory paradigm) -- I've seen this as a useful way of approaching Durrell for, well, quite a while now. > > For what it's worth, one of the professors under whom I read Freud was a colleague of Ernest Becker, and that's influenced me a good deal. When I first read Durrell reading Rank, that was already on my mind. > > Whether we experience it ourselves or not, we all know we die, and that shapes the process of living. > > All best, > James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billyapt at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 15:02:52 2016 From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 17:02:52 -0600 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas Message-ID: Fellow members: I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! All the best, and looking forward to Crete, Billy PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 Austin TX 78701 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX From dtart at bigpond.net.au Wed Jan 6 18:22:32 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 13:22:32 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. David Whitewine Sent from my iPad > On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: > > Fellow members: > > I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! > > All the best, and looking forward to Crete, > > Billy > > PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. > > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > Austin TX 78701 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 6 19:11:47 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 19:11:47 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. Bruce > On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. > > David Whitewine > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >> >> Fellow members: >> >> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >> >> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >> >> Billy >> >> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >> >> WILLIAM APT >> Attorney at Law >> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >> Austin TX 78701 >> 512/708-8300 >> 512/708-8011 FAX >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 19:21:21 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 20:21:21 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... Best, James On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. > > Bruce > > > >> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >> >> David Whitewine >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >>> >>> Fellow members: >>> >>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>> >>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>> >>> Billy >>> >>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>> >>> WILLIAM APT >>> Attorney at Law >>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>> Austin TX 78701 >>> 512/708-8300 >>> 512/708-8011 FAX >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > From billyapt at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 21:16:00 2016 From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 23:16:00 -0600 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas In-Reply-To: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <438E96A9-3327-4A02-8D74-B467FA3DBB61@gmail.com> David: Screw work! Meet us in Crete: we have important matters to discuss and good times to be had! WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 Austin TX 78701 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX > On Jan 6, 2016, at 9:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... > > Best, > James > >> On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>> >>> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >>> >>> David Whitewine >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >>>> >>>> Fellow members: >>>> >>>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>>> >>>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>>> >>>> Billy >>>> >>>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>>> >>>> WILLIAM APT >>>> Attorney at Law >>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>>> Austin TX 78701 >>>> 512/708-8300 >>>> 512/708-8011 FAX >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ILDS mailing list >>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 01:03:30 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 02:03:30 -0700 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Herald no. 34 Message-ID: <568E29E2.6090803@gmail.com> Hello all, ILDS members have likely already received email notification from Paul Lorenz, but the latest issue of the Herald is now launched and online (if you didn't receive it, perhaps update your email address or renew your ILDS membership...): http://lawrencedurrell.org/wp_durrell/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/herald34.pdf As always, tremendous thanks to Pamela Francis for her efforts! There's some excellent commentary on the coming Crete conference, Oscar Epfs, and everything between. All best, James -- _________________________________________ James Gifford, Ph.D. Associate Professor of English Director of the University Core School of the Humanities University College Fairleigh Dickinson University Voice: 604-648-4476 Fax: 604-648-4489 E-mail: gifford at fdu.edu Web: http://alpha.fdu.edu/~jgifford 842 Cambie Street Vancouver, BC V6B 2P6 Canada From bredwine1968 at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 11:06:23 2016 From: bredwine1968 at gmail.com (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:06:23 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas In-Reply-To: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> Message-ID: No, not like ?Good Lord Nelson,? more like some of the poems in The Ikons (1967) and Vega (1973). Durrell was quite versatile. He could be funny or oracular. It?s useful to start with Peter Porter?s collection of Durrell?s Selected Poems (Faber, 2006). Porter considers ?Loeb?s Horace? a ?great achievement? and concludes by calling Durrell ?one of the best [poets] of the past hundred years.? High praise from a fellow poet. Unfortunately few share this view. Bruce > On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... > > Best, > James > > On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>> >>> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >>> >>> David Whitewine >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >>>> >>>> Fellow members: >>>> >>>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>>> >>>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>>> >>>> Billy >>>> >>>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>>> >>>> WILLIAM APT >>>> Attorney at Law >>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>>> Austin TX 78701 >>>> 512/708-8300 >>>> 512/708-8011 FAX -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtart at bigpond.net.au Thu Jan 7 11:30:21 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 06:30:21 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Durrell as poet In-Reply-To: References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <57D5ED53-00D9-4EB2-AE94-5B782DC0B8F4@bigpond.net.au> Which begs the question, was Durrell being disingenuous when he claimed it was as a poet that he wished to be remembered. There is wonderful prose poetry in many of his books, the opening page of Justine for one, but it not as a poet that he is remembered. If he is remembered at all it is as the author of the Alexandria Quartet. Durrell read he great poets, even knew some of them, including Dylan Thomas. But poetry, despite the sense of personal satisfaction it gives, doesn't pay much. Larry said more than once that he wrote for loot. However, his poetry is worthy of deeper study. David Whitewine. Sent from my iPad > On 8 Jan 2016, at 6:06 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > No, not like ?Good Lord Nelson,? more like some of the poems in The Ikons (1967) and Vega (1973). Durrell was quite versatile. He could be funny or oracular. It?s useful to start with Peter Porter?s collection of Durrell?s Selected Poems (Faber, 2006). Porter considers ?Loeb?s Horace? a ?great achievement? and concludes by calling Durrell ?one of the best [poets] of the past hundred years.? High praise from a fellow poet. Unfortunately few share this view. > > Bruce > > > > > >> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >> >> Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... >> >> Best, >> James >> >>> On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>>> >>>> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >>>> >>>> David Whitewine >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Fellow members: >>>>> >>>>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>>>> >>>>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>>>> >>>>> Billy >>>>> >>>>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>>>> >>>>> WILLIAM APT >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>>>> Austin TX 78701 >>>>> 512/708-8300 >>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 7 11:50:54 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:54 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Durrell as poet In-Reply-To: <57D5ED53-00D9-4EB2-AE94-5B782DC0B8F4@bigpond.net.au> References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> <57D5ED53-00D9-4EB2-AE94-5B782DC0B8F4@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: I don't think Durrell was being disingenuous. He would prefer, I think, being known as a poet. Poetry, after all, is by far the older and higher calling. Plagiarism might be a test of this. I don't detect plagiarism in his poetry. He may revise, rework, and exceed his predecessors. But I don't see him engaged in wholesale theft, as occasioned in his prose. I think he considered poetry too sacred. Harold Bloom talks about this in his "Anxiety of Influence," although he would surely not consider Durrell a "strong poet." You're right--Durrell's poetry deserves "deep study." I find it very mysterious. Bruce Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 7, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Which begs the question, was Durrell being disingenuous when he claimed it was as a poet that he wished to be remembered. There is wonderful prose poetry in many of his books, the opening page of Justine for one, but it not as a poet that he is remembered. If he is remembered at all it is as the author of the Alexandria Quartet. Durrell read he great poets, even knew some of them, including Dylan Thomas. But poetry, despite the sense of personal satisfaction it gives, doesn't pay much. Larry said more than once that he wrote for loot. However, his poetry is worthy of deeper study. > > David Whitewine. > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 8 Jan 2016, at 6:06 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> >> No, not like ?Good Lord Nelson,? more like some of the poems in The Ikons (1967) and Vega (1973). Durrell was quite versatile. He could be funny or oracular. It?s useful to start with Peter Porter?s collection of Durrell?s Selected Poems (Faber, 2006). Porter considers ?Loeb?s Horace? a ?great achievement? and concludes by calling Durrell ?one of the best [poets] of the past hundred years.? High praise from a fellow poet. Unfortunately few share this view. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >>> >>> Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... >>> >>> Best, >>> James >>> >>>> On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>>>> >>>>> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >>>>> >>>>> David Whitewine >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Fellow members: >>>>>> >>>>>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>>>>> >>>>>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>>>>> >>>>>> Billy >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>>>>> >>>>>> WILLIAM APT >>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>>>>> Austin TX 78701 >>>>>> 512/708-8300 >>>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 12:16:42 2016 From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 12:16:42 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Durrell as poet In-Reply-To: References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> <57D5ED53-00D9-4EB2-AE94-5B782DC0B8F4@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: Just re-read ?On First Looking into Loeb?s Horace? in my used copy of the Grove Press Selected Poems, ironically with the same pencilled underlinings by a prior owner that the poet addresses in the first line: ?I found your Horace with the writing in it;?. That?s a great poem. Enjoyed Roger Bowen?s gloss online, which I believe comes from his _Many Histories Deep: The Personal Landscape Poets in Egypt, 1940-45_. I would welcome anyone else?s comments on this poem, which clearly deals with death. Note the power of the occasional rhyme. Cheers - Ken On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > I don't think Durrell was being disingenuous. He would prefer, I think, > being known as a poet. Poetry, after all, is by far the older and higher > calling. Plagiarism might be a test of this. I don't detect plagiarism in > his poetry. He may revise, rework, and exceed his predecessors. But I > don't see him engaged in wholesale theft, as occasioned in his prose. I > think he considered poetry too sacred. Harold Bloom talks about this in > his "Anxiety of Influence," although he would surely not consider Durrell a > "strong poet." You're right--Durrell's poetry deserves "deep study." I > find it very mysterious. > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 7, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Denise Tart & David Green < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > Which begs the question, was Durrell being disingenuous when he claimed it > was as a poet that he wished to be remembered. There is wonderful prose > poetry in many of his books, the opening page of Justine for one, but it > not as a poet that he is remembered. If he is remembered at all it is as > the author of the Alexandria Quartet. Durrell read he great poets, even > knew some of them, including Dylan Thomas. But poetry, despite the sense of > personal satisfaction it gives, doesn't pay much. Larry said more than once > that he wrote for loot. However, his poetry is worthy of deeper study. > > David Whitewine. > > Sent from my iPad > > On 8 Jan 2016, at 6:06 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > No, not like ?Good Lord Nelson,? more like some of the poems in *The > Ikons* (1967) and *Vega* (1973). Durrell was quite versatile. He could > be funny or oracular. It?s useful to start with Peter Porter?s collection > of Durrell?s *Selected Poems* (Faber, 2006). Porter considers ?Loeb?s > Horace? a ?great achievement? and concludes by calling Durrell ?one of the > best [poets] of the past hundred years.? High praise from a fellow poet. > Unfortunately few share this view. > > Bruce > > > > > > On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:21 PM, James Gifford > wrote: > > Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of > the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... > > Best, > James > > On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much > undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some > of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you > some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. > > David Whitewine > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: > > Fellow members: > > I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the > University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive > discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies > Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, > its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let > me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to > make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! > > All the best, and looking forward to Crete, > > Billy > > PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by > MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to > achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I > tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He > felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did > tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. > > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 > Austin TX 78701 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 7 12:40:28 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 12:40:28 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Durrell as poet In-Reply-To: References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> <57D5ED53-00D9-4EB2-AE94-5B782DC0B8F4@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <26DC8749-F497-4CEE-BD41-1012C43D1C26@earthlink.net> Some years ago, we had on the List a debate on ?Loeb?s Horace.? My view (if I haven?t changed my mind) was/is not that of Michael Haag?s and Peter Porter?s (both favorable on the poem). The journal Arion has my article on the Durrell Celebration in Alex in 2007: ?The Melting Mirage of Lawrence Durrell?s White City.? You can access it on the Arion website; search under my name. In brief, I think Durrell was engaged in Bloom?s ?anxiety of influence,? that is, he was doing battle with Horace and making dubious charges against a very great poet. Bruce http://www.bu.edu/arion/ > On Jan 7, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote: > > Just re-read ?On First Looking into Loeb?s Horace? in my used copy of the Grove Press Selected Poems, ironically with the same pencilled underlinings by a prior owner that the poet addresses in the first line: ?I found your Horace with the writing in it;?. That?s a great poem. Enjoyed Roger Bowen?s gloss online, which I believe comes from his _Many Histories Deep: The Personal Landscape Poets in Egypt, 1940-45_. I would welcome anyone else?s comments on this poem, which clearly deals with death. Note the power of the occasional rhyme. > > Cheers - Ken > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > I don't think Durrell was being disingenuous. He would prefer, I think, being known as a poet. Poetry, after all, is by far the older and higher calling. Plagiarism might be a test of this. I don't detect plagiarism in his poetry. He may revise, rework, and exceed his predecessors. But I don't see him engaged in wholesale theft, as occasioned in his prose. I think he considered poetry too sacred. Harold Bloom talks about this in his "Anxiety of Influence," although he would surely not consider Durrell a "strong poet." You're right--Durrell's poetry deserves "deep study." I find it very mysterious. > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 7, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: > >> Which begs the question, was Durrell being disingenuous when he claimed it was as a poet that he wished to be remembered. There is wonderful prose poetry in many of his books, the opening page of Justine for one, but it not as a poet that he is remembered. If he is remembered at all it is as the author of the Alexandria Quartet. Durrell read he great poets, even knew some of them, including Dylan Thomas. But poetry, despite the sense of personal satisfaction it gives, doesn't pay much. Larry said more than once that he wrote for loot. However, his poetry is worthy of deeper study. >> >> David Whitewine. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 8 Jan 2016, at 6:06 AM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: >> >>> No, not like ?Good Lord Nelson,? more like some of the poems in The Ikons (1967) and Vega (1973). Durrell was quite versatile. He could be funny or oracular. It?s useful to start with Peter Porter?s collection of Durrell?s Selected Poems (Faber, 2006). Porter considers ?Loeb?s Horace? a ?great achievement? and concludes by calling Durrell ?one of the best [poets] of the past hundred years.? High praise from a fellow poet. Unfortunately few share this view. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:21 PM, James Gifford > wrote: >>>> >>>> Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> James >>>> >>>> On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>> Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. >>>>> >>>>> Bruce >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >>>>>> >>>>>> David Whitewine >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow members: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Billy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WILLIAM APT >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>>>>>> Austin TX 78701 >>>>>>> 512/708-8300 >>>>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 12:57:05 2016 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 12:57:05 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Durrell as poet In-Reply-To: References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> <57D5ED53-00D9-4EB2-AE94-5B782DC0B8F4@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <568ED121.1040106@gmail.com> There was a good discussion of Durrell's "Loeb's Horace" back in 2008 (?!): https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20080505/003551.html and the week as a whole: https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20080505/ All best, James From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 13:38:04 2016 From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 13:38:04 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Durrell as poet In-Reply-To: <568ED121.1040106@gmail.com> References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> <57D5ED53-00D9-4EB2-AE94-5B782DC0B8F4@bigpond.net.au> <568ED121.1040106@gmail.com> Message-ID: That was a very good week on the ILDS listserv James: 5 May 2008. Shortly before I joined, and long before I first posted. Lots of great discussion, though perhaps more heat than light? As usual, Bruce could not be persuaded - though I was under the perhaps mistaken impression that he actually likes this poem! One thing I just failed to track down online concerning underlining and the interlinear in used books - the great Harold Bloom once said that when he discovered yellow highlighting in used books (or library books) written by him was - the readers never highlighted what he expected them to highlight... Cheers - Ken On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 12:57 PM, James Gifford wrote: > There was a good discussion of Durrell's "Loeb's Horace" back in 2008 (?!): > > https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20080505/003551.html > > and the week as a whole: > > https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20080505/ > > All best, > James > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at marcpiel.fr Thu Jan 7 17:27:45 2016 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 02:27:45 +0100 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas In-Reply-To: References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> Message-ID: Surely much of his prose is pure poetry!! Marc Envoy? de mon iPad Le 7 janv. 2016 ? 20:06, Bruce Redwine a ?crit : No, not like ?Good Lord Nelson,? more like some of the poems in The Ikons (1967) and Vega (1973). Durrell was quite versatile. He could be funny or oracular. It?s useful to start with Peter Porter?s collection of Durrell?s Selected Poems (Faber, 2006). Porter considers ?Loeb?s Horace? a ?great achievement? and concludes by calling Durrell ?one of the best [poets] of the past hundred years.? High praise from a fellow poet. Unfortunately few share this view. Bruce > On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... > > Best, > James > >> On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>> >>> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >>> >>> David Whitewine >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >>>> >>>> Fellow members: >>>> >>>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>>> >>>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>>> >>>> Billy >>>> >>>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>>> >>>> WILLIAM APT >>>> Attorney at Law >>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>>> Austin TX 78701 >>>> 512/708-8300 >>>> 512/708-8011 FAX _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sumantranag at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 20:41:51 2016 From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 10:11:51 +0530 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 105, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Durrell's poetry could do with some analysis on ILDS. I think it was in a letter to Henry Miller that Durrell himself first referred to his composition of Justine as a prose poem. Sumantra Message: 9 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:54 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: James Gifford , Bruce Redwine , David Green Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell as poet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I don't think Durrell was being disingenuous. He would prefer, I think, being known as a poet. Poetry, after all, is by far the older and higher calling. Plagiarism might be a test of this. I don't detect plagiarism in his poetry. He may revise, rework, and exceed his predecessors. But I don't see him engaged in wholesale theft, as occasioned in his prose. I think he considered poetry too sacred. Harold Bloom talks about this in his "Anxiety of Influence," although he would surely not consider Durrell a "strong poet." You're right--Durrell's poetry deserves "deep study." I find it very mysterious. Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtart at bigpond.net.au Thu Jan 7 23:28:17 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 18:28:17 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas In-Reply-To: References: <568DD9B1.2070700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59FB1867-9B16-4E3D-A9A7-1E9A529D3618@bigpond.net.au> Bien sur, Marc, bien sur. La prose de Lawrence Durrell est plus poetique, mon ami, plus poetique. Avec Durrell vous obtenez une melange manifique. Je Pense que oui. David Vinblanc. Sent from my iPad > On 8 Jan 2016, at 12:27 PM, Marc Piel wrote: > > Surely much of his prose is pure poetry!! > Marc > > Envoy? de mon iPad > > Le 7 janv. 2016 ? 20:06, Bruce Redwine a ?crit : > > No, not like ?Good Lord Nelson,? more like some of the poems in The Ikons (1967) and Vega (1973). Durrell was quite versatile. He could be funny or oracular. It?s useful to start with Peter Porter?s collection of Durrell?s Selected Poems (Faber, 2006). Porter considers ?Loeb?s Horace? a ?great achievement? and concludes by calling Durrell ?one of the best [poets] of the past hundred years.? High praise from a fellow poet. Unfortunately few share this view. > > Bruce > > > > > >> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >> >> Like the "Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson"? We even had a performance of the musical setting at the Ottawa conference in 2002... >> >> Best, >> James >> >>> On 2016-01-06 8:11 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> Agreed. Not enough is done with Durrell?s poetry. It?s really much undiscovered territory. Why? Because much is so cryptic. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>>> >>>> William, happen to agree with your last line about Durrell's poetry. Some of his poems are amongst my favs. Look forward to a Margherita with you some day. Sadly, won't be to Crete this year. Have to work this year. >>>> >>>> David Whitewine >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 7 Jan 2016, at 10:02 AM, William Apt wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Fellow members: >>>>> >>>>> I just received the latest issue of the Herald and noticed that the University of Texas's British Studies Dept. will be hosting a Waugh archive discussion on April 8th. I am a long time member of the British Studies Lecture Series and former undergrad student of Prof. William Roger Louis, its Director. If any of you will be in in Austin to attend, please do let me know. I know the best Mexican food and BBQ places in town and how to make a good margarita - a real margarita, the way God likes them! >>>>> >>>>> All the best, and looking forward to Crete, >>>>> >>>>> Billy >>>>> >>>>> PS: Christopher Middleton, author of the Heraldic Universe, and noted by MacNivan as one of the first scholars to understand what LD was trying to achieve artistically, lived here until his death this past November. I tried to get him to attend OMG in London but he just wasn't interested. He felt his interest in LD was from long ago and that he had moved on. He did tell me that LD's poetry was LD's greatest achievement. >>>>> >>>>> WILLIAM APT >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401 >>>>> Austin TX 78701 >>>>> 512/708-8300 >>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri Jan 8 01:12:24 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 20:12:24 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Lawrence Durrell, collected poems, 1931 - 1974 Message-ID: <6A8847F4-5F94-4BE6-B56A-1A0B55A3B8BD@bigpond.net.au> Dusted this volume off tonight, said to myself, take a glass of Richmond grove Chardonnay and start from the start. Hemingway talked about the true line, those lines that really say it, lay it down well. >From The Gift The crumbled dust of ancient adorations, murmurings, and the dull story of some faded lust, will you remember it and mother-wise thank me in these chill after-days, When I am empty handed...with your eyes? I especially like 'and the dull story of some faded lust' - just nails it. Bam, bam, bam! Sometimes Lazza tries to hard, gets too full of classical allusion, but little gems shine like sharp cut diamonds. David Sent from my iPad From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 8 03:16:33 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 03:16:33 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Poetry v. Prose Poem Message-ID: <6BF67EAD-E328-4A6B-A952-853FD7B31440@earthlink.net> Yes. We might start with definitions. Is poetry the same as a prose poem? I don't think it is, and I doubt that Durrell did either, for the simple reason he published the two genres separately. Bruce Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 7, 2016, at 8:41 PM, Sumantra Nag wrote: > > Durrell's poetry could do with some analysis on ILDS. > > I think it was in a letter to Henry Miller that Durrell himself first referred to his composition of Justine as a prose poem. > > Sumantra > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:54 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: James Gifford , Bruce Redwine > , David Green > Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell as poet > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I don't think Durrell was being disingenuous. He would prefer, I think, being known as a poet. Poetry, after all, is by far the older and higher calling. Plagiarism might be a test of this. I don't detect plagiarism in his poetry. He may revise, rework, and exceed his predecessors. But I don't see him engaged in wholesale theft, as occasioned in his prose. I think he considered poetry too sacred. Harold Bloom talks about this in his "Anxiety of Influence," although he would surely not consider Durrell a "strong poet." You're right--Durrell's poetry deserves "deep study." I find it very mysterious. > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 8 03:38:07 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 03:38:07 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Poetry v. Prose Poem In-Reply-To: <6BF67EAD-E328-4A6B-A952-853FD7B31440@earthlink.net> References: <6BF67EAD-E328-4A6B-A952-853FD7B31440@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1DCF3A50-2964-495D-B964-88DAA3B523BE@earthlink.net> Addendum. It's true that books like CVG contain poems, but the two genres are kept distinct. We know when we're reading poetry as opposed to prose. Poetic prose is not the same as poetry, for Durrell anyway. This seems to me trivially true, although I wonder about a writer/poet like Anne Carson. Bruce Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 8, 2016, at 3:16 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > > Yes. We might start with definitions. Is poetry the same as a prose poem? I don't think it is, and I doubt that Durrell did either, for the simple reason he published the two genres separately. > > Bruce > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 7, 2016, at 8:41 PM, Sumantra Nag wrote: >> >> Durrell's poetry could do with some analysis on ILDS. >> >> I think it was in a letter to Henry Miller that Durrell himself first referred to his composition of Justine as a prose poem. >> >> Sumantra >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:54 -0800 >> From: Bruce Redwine >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: James Gifford , Bruce Redwine >> , David Green >> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell as poet >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I don't think Durrell was being disingenuous. He would prefer, I think, being known as a poet. Poetry, after all, is by far the older and higher calling. Plagiarism might be a test of this. I don't detect plagiarism in his poetry. He may revise, rework, and exceed his predecessors. But I don't see him engaged in wholesale theft, as occasioned in his prose. I think he considered poetry too sacred. Harold Bloom talks about this in his "Anxiety of Influence," although he would surely not consider Durrell a "strong poet." You're right--Durrell's poetry deserves "deep study." I find it very mysterious. >> >> Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri Jan 8 19:08:06 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 14:08:06 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Poetry v. Prose Poem In-Reply-To: <6BF67EAD-E328-4A6B-A952-853FD7B31440@earthlink.net> References: <6BF67EAD-E328-4A6B-A952-853FD7B31440@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Let's start with the poetry. David Sent from my iPad > On 8 Jan 2016, at 10:16 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > > Yes. We might start with definitions. Is poetry the same as a prose poem? I don't think it is, and I doubt that Durrell did either, for the simple reason he published the two genres separately. > > Bruce > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 7, 2016, at 8:41 PM, Sumantra Nag wrote: >> >> Durrell's poetry could do with some analysis on ILDS. >> >> I think it was in a letter to Henry Miller that Durrell himself first referred to his composition of Justine as a prose poem. >> >> Sumantra >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:54 -0800 >> From: Bruce Redwine >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: James Gifford , Bruce Redwine >> , David Green >> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell as poet >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I don't think Durrell was being disingenuous. He would prefer, I think, being known as a poet. Poetry, after all, is by far the older and higher calling. Plagiarism might be a test of this. I don't detect plagiarism in his poetry. He may revise, rework, and exceed his predecessors. But I don't see him engaged in wholesale theft, as occasioned in his prose. I think he considered poetry too sacred. Harold Bloom talks about this in his "Anxiety of Influence," although he would surely not consider Durrell a "strong poet." You're right--Durrell's poetry deserves "deep study." I find it very mysterious. >> >> Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sumantranag at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 21:08:06 2016 From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 10:38:06 +0530 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 105, Issue 7_Prose poems and poetry Message-ID: Prose poems! Was Durrell ever regarded as a major poet of his generation? And is his poetry not stimulated very frequently by the Levant - if I may use that single term in this context? He was once regarded as a major novelist, but his high reputation faded away, and did that affect his reputation as a poet? Does all this have to do with English literature having become parochial from the 1950s onwards? My knowledge of French is negligible, but I seem to note a keen appreciation of Durrell's poetic prose from the French strongholds in these posts! I recall - but with what accuracy? - a reviewer's comment on Justine (or definitely one of the novels of The Alexandria Quartet), which said that Lawrence Durrell had written a good French novel! I'll try to recover that review, but perhaps someone else can beat me to it. I find something revelatory in the fact that I have been able to more than half of Proust's monumental "Remembrance of Things Past" in its English translations by Scott-Moncrieff and Terence Kilmartin, with greater ease than any other comparable fictional masterpiece. I don't think that, by itself, Proust's prose would be described as poetic, although he achieves a extraordinary degree of minuteness in the description of landscape and while describing psychological relationships between people at. I have come across Mallarme's prose poems, but how widely represented is the prose poem as a literary genre? Sir Thomas Browne is seen as an original archetype of prose which is ornate and described perhaps as Baroque in its quality. Thomas de Quincey and other later writers have something of this quality. George Steiner has extolled Lawrence Durrell's prose and structure in the novels of The Alexandria Quartet, and described the novels as baroque. I would go back to what might have been seen as a French quality in Durrell's novels from the Quartet, although I am not in a position to comment on his later novels of which I have read very little. France is also where I believe Durrell's reputation has survived at a higher level than it apparently has in Britain. Sumantra ---------------------- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 18:28:17 +1100 From: Denise Tart & David Green To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas Message-ID: <59FB1867-9B16-4E3D-A9A7-1E9A529D3618 at bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Bien sur, Marc, bien sur. La prose de Lawrence Durrell est plus poetique, mon ami, plus poetique. Avec Durrell vous obtenez une melange manifique. Je Pense que oui. David Vinblanc. On 8 Jan 2016, at 12:27 PM, Marc Piel wrote: Surely much of his prose is pure poetry!! Marc ------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 20:12:24 +1100 From: Denise Tart & David Green To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] Lawrence Durrell, collected poems, 1931 - 1974 Message-ID: <6A8847F4-5F94-4BE6-B56A-1A0B55A3B8BD at bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dusted this volume off tonight, said to myself, take a glass of Richmond grove Chardonnay and start from the start. Hemingway talked about the true line, those lines that really say it, lay it down well. >From The Gift The crumbled dust of ancient adorations, murmurings, and the dull story of some faded lust, will you remember it and mother-wise thank me in these chill after-days, When I am empty handed...with your eyes? I especially like 'and the dull story of some faded lust' - just nails it. Bam, bam, bam! Sometimes Lazza tries to hard, gets too full of classical allusion, but little gems shine like sharp cut diamonds. David Message: 9 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 03:16:33 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] Poetry v. Prose Poem Message-ID: <6BF67EAD-E328-4A6B-A952-853FD7B31440 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes. We might start with definitions. Is poetry the same as a prose poem? I don't think it is, and I doubt that Durrell did either, for the simple reason he published the two genres separately. Bruce Message: 10 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 03:38:07 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Poetry v. Prose Poem Message-ID: <1DCF3A50-2964-495D-B964-88DAA3B523BE at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Addendum. It's true that books like CVG contain poems, but the two genres are kept distinct. We know when we're reading poetry as opposed to prose. Poetic prose is not the same as poetry, for Durrell anyway. This seems to me trivially true, although I wonder about a writer/poet like Anne Carson. Bruce ------------------- Sent from my Asus Zenfone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 9 10:17:15 2016 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 10:17:15 -0800 Subject: [ilds] French Accolade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: French critics deserve an accolade or two. Going back to Tocqueville, they?re more perceptive about America than Americans. They also appreciated Poe, Faulkner, and film noir, when few in the U.S. paid any attention to them. The same is true of Lawrence Durrell. Durrell made his living from prose, but I think he valued poetry more. Prose he wrote quickly (or so he claimed), the poetry was agonizingly difficult to write (ditto). Most poets would probably say that, I think. Let?s say something about what kinds of poems he writes. Aside from satires like ?Good Lord Nelson,? I?d call him a lyric poet. His major topics and concerns are personal. If a mother plays a role in ?The Gift? (1931), I?d say W. B. Yeats is the unstated topic of ?Pioneer? (1931), the next poem in Brigham?s 1980 edition. So, from an early age (he?s only nineteen in 1931), Durrell is concerned about two things: his origins as a person and his future as a poet. Bruce > On Jan 8, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Sumantra Nag wrote: > > Prose poems! > > Was Durrell ever regarded as a major poet of his generation? And is his poetry not stimulated very frequently by the Levant - if I may use that single term in this context? He was once regarded as a major novelist, but his high reputation faded away, and did that affect his reputation as a poet? > > Does all this have to do with English literature having become parochial from the 1950s onwards? > > My knowledge of French is negligible, but I seem to note a keen appreciation of Durrell's poetic prose from the French strongholds in these posts! I recall - but with what accuracy? - a reviewer's comment on Justine (or definitely one of the novels of The Alexandria Quartet), which said that Lawrence Durrell had written a good French novel! I'll try to recover that review, but perhaps someone else can beat me to it. > > I find something revelatory in the fact that I have been able to more than half of Proust's monumental "Remembrance of Things Past" in its English translations by Scott-Moncrieff and Terence Kilmartin, with greater ease than any other comparable fictional masterpiece. I don't think that, by itself, Proust's prose would be described as poetic, although he achieves a extraordinary degree of minuteness in the description of landscape and while describing psychological relationships between people at. > > I have come across Mallarme's prose poems, but how widely represented is the prose poem as a literary genre? > > Sir Thomas Browne is seen as an original archetype of prose which is ornate and described perhaps as Baroque in its quality. Thomas de Quincey and other later writers have something of this quality. George Steiner has extolled Lawrence Durrell's prose and structure in the novels of The Alexandria Quartet, and described the novels as baroque. > > I would go back to what might have been seen as a French quality in Durrell's novels from the Quartet, although I am not in a position to comment on his later novels of which I have read very little. > > France is also where I believe Durrell's reputation has survived at a higher level than it apparently has in Britain. > > Sumantra > ---------------------- > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 18:28:17 +1100 > From: Denise Tart & David Green > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Waugh Panel - Univ of Texas > Message-ID: <59FB1867-9B16-4E3D-A9A7-1E9A529D3618 at bigpond.net.au > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Bien sur, Marc, bien sur. La prose de Lawrence Durrell est plus poetique, mon ami, plus poetique. Avec Durrell vous obtenez une melange manifique. Je Pense que oui. > > David Vinblanc. > > On 8 Jan 2016, at 12:27 PM, Marc Piel > wrote: > > Surely much of his prose is pure poetry!! > Marc > ------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 20:12:24 +1100 > From: Denise Tart & David Green > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] Lawrence Durrell, collected poems, 1931 - 1974 > Message-ID: <6A8847F4-5F94-4BE6-B56A-1A0B55A3B8BD at bigpond.net.au > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Dusted this volume off tonight, said to myself, take a glass of Richmond grove Chardonnay and start from the start. Hemingway talked about the true line, those lines that really say it, lay it down well. > > >From The Gift > > The crumbled dust of ancient adorations, murmurings, and the dull story of some faded lust, will you remember it and mother-wise thank me in these chill after-days, > When I am empty handed...with your eyes? > > I especially like 'and the dull story of some faded lust' - just nails it. Bam, bam, bam! > > Sometimes Lazza tries to hard, gets too full of classical allusion, but little gems shine like sharp cut diamonds. > > David > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 03:16:33 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] Poetry v. Prose Poem > Message-ID: <6BF67EAD-E328-4A6B-A952-853FD7B31440 at earthlink.net > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Yes. We might start with definitions. Is poetry the same as a prose poem? I don't think it is, and I doubt that Durrell did either, for the simple reason he published the two genres separately. > > Bruce > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 03:38:07 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Poetry v. Prose Poem > Message-ID: <1DCF3A50-2964-495D-B964-88DAA3B523BE at earthlink.net > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Addendum. It's true that books like CVG contain poems, but the two genres are kept distinct. We know when we're reading poetry as opposed to prose. Poetic prose is not the same as poetry, for Durrell anyway. This seems to me trivially true, although I wonder about a writer/poet like Anne Carson. > > Bruce > ------------------- > > Sent from my Asus Zenfone > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sat Jan 9 13:06:47 2016 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 08:06:47 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Lawrence Durrell Analysis - eNotes.com Message-ID: <14D223CB-0C98-44F5-BB40-9022BCF5795F@bigpond.net.au> http://www.enotes.com/topics/lawrence-durrell/in-depth#in-depth-other-literary-forms-1 Above link to some commentary of Durrell the poet. David Sent from my iPad