[ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 13

mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org
Wed Dec 16 12:43:16 PST 2015


I cannot see the difference between duplicitous behaviour detected in oneself (and for which one censures oneself) and being a fraud, for which one congratulates oneself. The question seems to revolve around self-other - who are we - who is that in the mirror? who is it that writes my work? Who left that note on my desk? Was it me or was it A N Other (aka me)? or maybe just A N Wilson. Only joking. Don't take everything so seriously you guys - especially your doubleness. RP 
-----Original Message-----
From: ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 03:00 PM
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 13

Send ILDS mailing list submissions to	ilds at lists.uvic.caTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit	https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ildsor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to	ilds-request at lists.uvic.caYou can reach the person managing the list at	ilds-owner at lists.uvic.caWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 12 (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org) 2. Seems (Bruce Redwine) 3. Re: Seems (Kennedy Gammage)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 07:54:19 +0000From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.orgTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 12Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Of course LD knew he was a fraud. All artists know that, especially writers. None of us is what we seem. Writers just make a professsion of it, that's all. Anyone who thinks he is telling the truth is deceiving herself.RP -----Original Message-----From: ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 03:00 PMTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 12Send ILDS mailing list submissions to	ilds at lists.uvic.caTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit	https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ildsor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to	ilds-request at lists.uvic.caYou can reach the person managing the list at	ilds-owner at lists.uvic.caWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 11 (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org) 2. Re: A teaser (Bruce Redwine)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 20:51:47 +0000From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.orgTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 11Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Good point Sumantra - LD certainly knew South Wind (I think he borrowed a scene from it to indert into Sicilan Carousel)RP -----Original Message-----From: ilds-request at lists.uv! ic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 03:00 PMTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 11Send ILDS mailing list submissions to	ilds at lists.uvic.caTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit	https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ildsor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to	ilds-request at lists.uvic.caYou can reach the person managing the list at	ilds-owner at lists.uvic.caWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 10 (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org) 2. Re: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 10_Fake statues (Sumantra Nag) 3. Re: A teaser (Bruce Redwine)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 21:29:43 +0000From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.orgTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 10Message-ID: Content-Typ! e: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Sorry - my typing is bad - for "uniquity" read "ubiquity" - rather a difference!RP -----Original Message-----F! rom: ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 03:00 PMTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 10Send ILDS mailing list submissions to	ilds at lists.uvic.caTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit	https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ildsor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to	ilds-request at lists.uvic.caYou can reach the person managing the list at	ilds-owner at lists.uvic.caWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."Today's Topics: 1. A teaser (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 16:57:58 +0000From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.orgTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: [ilds] A teaserMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Here's a teaser. The! following is a quote from a source I won't identify. If you know the sour! ce, you already know it, it you don't, you don't need to know, but it's a fictional story>"---- played a horrid trick on ---- and got a sculptor he knows to make a [stat! ue of Apollo] and fake it to look old. Then he pretended that a friend of his had found it in Sicily". ---- fell for this beastly thing and wrote an article on it for "The Archaeolgist" ...."It's from a novel published in 1937. Ring any bells? The question is: it's almost certain that LD did not know of this novel. Therefore he could not have had the idea from this novel of a fake statue "found" in Sicily (which in the novel leads to a vendetta between the progenitor of the fake and its victim). So, if the same idea came into LD's head when conceiving Dark Labyrinth, was such an idea common at that time or is this an extraordinary coincidence?Should literary sleuths bend every sinew to try to establish that L D DID in fact know thi! s specific story or would their time be better spent arguing over the uniquity of such fictions or such pranks in the 1930s? Or should they just ge! t on with enjoying Dark Labyrinth?(The novel from which the idea is taken is not, in fact, a great r! ead - another reason for my not identifying it to those who don't recognise the story)RP-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________ILDS mailing listILDS at lists.uvic.cahttps://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds------------------------------End of ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 10*************************************-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 2Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:21:13 +0530From: Sumantra Nag To: ilds at lists.uvic.caCc: Richard Pine Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 10_Fake statuesMessage-ID:	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"If I remember correctly there is! a character (the Duke?) in the novel SouthWind (Norman Douglas) who sculpts f! ake ancient statues and sells them togullible Americans.Sumantra NagSent from my Asus ZenfoneOn 14 Dec 2015 01:36, wrote:> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to> ilds at lists.uvic.ca>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca>> You can reach the person managing the list at> ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest...">>> Today's Topics:>> 1. A teaser (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org)>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------->> Message: 1> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 16:57:58 +0000> From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca> Subject: [ilds] A teaser> Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8">> Here's a tease! r. The following is a quote from a source I won't identify.> If you know the source, you already know it, it you don't, you don't need> to know, but i! t's a fictional story>>>> "---- played a horrid trick on ---- and got a sculptor he knows to make a> [statue of Apollo] and fake it to look old. Then he pretended that a friend> of his had found it in Sicily". ---- fell for this beastly thing and wrote> an article on it for "The Archaeolgist" ....">>> It's from a novel published in 1937. Ring any bells?> The question is: it's almost certain that LD did not know of this novel.> Therefore he could not have had the idea from this novel of a fake statue> "found" in Sicily (which in the novel leads to a vendetta between the> progenitor of the fake and its victim). So, if the same idea came into LD's> head when conceiving Dark Labyrinth, was such an idea common at that time> or is this an extraordinary coincidence?> Should literary sleuths bend every sinew to try to establish that L D DID> in fact know this specific story or would their time be bette! r spent> arguing over the uniquity of such fictions or such pranks in the 1930s? ! Or> should they just get on with enjoying Dark Labyrinth?>>> (The novel from which the idea is taken is not, in fact, a great read -> another reason for my not identifying it to those who don't recognise the> story)> RP>> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20151213/da677ebd/attachment-0001.html> >>> ------------------------------>> Subject: Digest Footer>> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>> ------------------------------>> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 10> *************************************>-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 3Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 10:19:13 -0800From: Bruce Redwine To: James Gifford Cc: Bruce ! Redwine ,	Richard Pine	Subject: Re: [ilds] A teaserMessage-ID: <904FB348-880C-4B96-925D-BA96495C6AD9 at earthlink.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-! 8"A nice tease. It brings us back to Durrell?s underrated book, The Dark Labyrinth (1947). I?d forgotten about the ?statues.? Correct me if I?m wrong, but the statues get several references regarding their authenticity. This frequency calls special attention to itself, although my memory was faulty. Here?s one from the chapter ?City in the Rock?:He stepped forward into the little chapel and found his attention arrested by the perfect detachment and purity of the statues, by the coarse yet sensitive stone-cutting of the bas-relief. No, his experience had not been at fault. These were certainly not fakes: they were too weathered and lichened by damp: too self-consciously primitive and innocent to deceive. (165-66)I assume this passage is what Richard has in mind. Our ?attention? should be ?arrested,? along with Graecen?s.Now, did Durrell borrow this theme from the unidentified novel of 1937. ! (No bells are ringing for me!) I don?t see that this really matters (unless someone c! an draw an important connection). At the time of writing Labyrinth, Durrell was surely aware of the huge market in fake artifacts supposedly from antiquity. Sumantra mentions Douglas?s South Wind (1917). After all, Durrell lived in Cairo and had visited the famous Khan al-Kahili souk (later mentioned in ?Egyptian Moments? [1978]), whose shops are full of fakes (along with some real treasures). An ?Aladdin?s cave,? he later called it. So the idea of fake statutes was well-known and ?ubiquitous,? as Richard suggests.More importantly, what role does fakery have in the novel? Why all the references? What was Durrell up to, if anything? Was the labyrinth another ?Aladdin?s cave?? Perhaps someone can explain.Bruce> On Dec 13, 2015, at 8:57 AM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:> > Here's a teaser. The following is a quote from a source I won't identify. If you know the source, you already know! it, it you don't, you don't need to know, but it's a fictional story>> > "---- played a horrid trick on ---- and got a sculptor he knows to make a [statue of! Apollo] and fake it to look old. Then he pretended that a friend of his had found it in Sicily". ---- fell for this beastly thing and wrote an article on it for "The Archaeolgist" ...."> > It's from a novel published in 1937. Ring any bells? > The question is: it's almost certain that LD did not know of this novel. Therefore he could not have had the idea from this novel of a fake statue "found" in Sicily (which in the novel leads to a vendetta between the progenitor of the fake and its victim). So, if the same idea came into LD's head when conceiving Dark Labyrinth, was such an idea common at that time or is this an extraordinary coincidence?> Should literary sleuths bend every sinew to try to establish that L D DID in fact know this specific story or would their time be better spent arguing over the uniquity of such fictions or such pranks in the 1930s? Or should they just get on with! enjoying Dark Labyrinth?> > (The novel from which the idea is taken is not, in fact, a ! great read - another reason for my not identifying it to those who don't recognise the story)> RP> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________ILDS mailing listILDS at lists.uvic.cahttps://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds------------------------------End of ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 11*************************************-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 2Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:23:30 -0800From: Bruce Redwine To: Richard Pine ,	James Gifford	Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] A teaserMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Ri! chard, okay. That makes sense, applying Tertullian?s ?credo? to faked or not faked antiquities. This fits in with Durrell?s preference for ?open? endings, as in the Quartet and Quintet. But the strong suggestion of fraudulence would seem to have other possibilities of a personal nature. For example, note Graecen?s musings about ?great artists? near the end: ?He wondered if perhaps all great artists, from whose company he reluctantly excluded himself, were not absolutely revolting as human beings? (p. 258). A rather strange statement, even with the qualification. Did Durrell think of himself as some kind of fraud? Someone not what he seemed. I wonder. Was he apologizing to Nancy Myers? Didn?t he say somewhere that Labyrinth paid for her alimony?Bruce> On Dec 14, 2015, at 10:46 AM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:> > Yes, that, and also the very end (which isn't the end at all, of course): "He says Axelos gave him money and told him he should say that they built the damn thing, carved it and all that". So we will never know... It's all a ques! tion of believing in the unbelievable sufficiently to make it believable (credo quia absurdum) LD ends by quoting from an 1873 book which questions the authenticity of a similar "installation" (from which he says he got the idea) but...> (Tozer went into a later 1890 edition which is now available in several reprints)> RP > -----Original Message-----> From: Bruce Redwine [mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net]> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 01:19 PM> To: 'James Gifford'> Cc: 'Bruce Redwine', 'Richard Pine'> Subject: Re: [ilds] A teaser> > A nice tease. It brings us back to Durrell?s underrated book, The Dark Labyrinth (1947). I?d forgotten about the ?statues.? Correct me if I?m wrong, but the statues get several references regarding their authenticity. This frequency calls special attention to itself, although my memory was faulty. Here?s one from the chapter ?City in the Rock?:> > He stepped forward into the little chapel and found his attention arrested by the perfect detac! hment and purity of the statues, by the coarse yet sensitive stone-cutting of the bas-relief. No, his experience had not been at fault. These were certainly not fakes: they were too weathered and lichened by damp: too self-consciously primitive and innocent to deceive. (165-66)> > I assume this passage is what Richard has in mind. Our ?attention? should be ?arrested,? along with Graecen?s.> > Now, did Durrell borrow this theme from the unidentified novel of 1937. (No bells are ringing for me!) I don?t see that this really matters (unless someone can draw an important connection). At the time of writing Labyrinth, Durrell was surely aware of the huge market in fake artifacts supposedly from antiquity. Sumantra mentions Douglas?s South Wind (1917). After all, Durrell lived in Cairo and had visited the famous Khan al-Kahili souk (later mentioned in ?Egyptian Moments? [1978]), whose shops are full of fakes (along with some real treasures). An ?Aladdin?s cave,? he later called it. So the idea of fake statutes was well-known and ?ubiquitous,? as Ric! hard suggests.> > More importantly, what role does fakery have in the novel? Why all the references? What was Durrell up to, if anything? Was the labyrinth another ?Aladdin?s cave?? Perhaps someone can explain.> > Bruce> > > > > >> On Dec 13, 2015, at 8:57 AM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:>> >> Here's a teaser. The following is a quote from a source I won't identify. If you know the source, you already know it, it you don't, you don't need to know, but it's a fictional story>>> >> "---- played a horrid trick on ---- and got a sculptor he knows to make a [statue of Apollo] and fake it to look old. Then he pretended that a friend of his had found it in Sicily". ---- fell for this beastly thing and wrote an article on it for "The Archaeolgist" ....">> >> It's from a novel published in 1937. Ring any bells? >> The question is: it's almost certain that LD did not know of this novel. Therefore he could not have had the idea from this novel of a fake statue "found" in Sicil! y (which in the novel leads to a vendetta between the progenitor of the fake and its victim). So, if the same idea came into LD's head when conceiving Dark Labyrinth, was such an idea common at that time or is this an extraordinary coincidence?>> Should literary sleuths bend every sinew to try to establish that L D DID in fact know this specific story or would their time be better spent arguing over the uniquity of such fictions or such pranks in the 1930s? Or should they just get on with enjoying Dark Labyrinth?>> >> (The novel from which the idea is taken is not, in fact, a great read - another reason for my not identifying it to those who don't recognise the story)>> RP>> -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________ILDS mailing listILDS at lists.uvic.cahttps://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds------------------------------End of ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 12*************************************-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 2Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:31:37 -0800From: Bruce Redwine To: James Gifford Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] SeemsMessage-ID: <196D494F-9554-444B-99FE-5505BD783C27 at earthlink.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Seems, madam? Nay, it is. I know not ?seems.??HamletHe wondered if perhaps all great artists, from whose company he reluctantly excluded himself, were not absolutely revolting as human beings. Dostoevsky writing about Christian meekness while he browbeat his menservants, Lawrence saying nasty things about one when one wasn?t there ? It was very odd.?Dark Labyrinth, p. 258I guess I?m one of those deceiving myself. Richard Pine?s objection to ?fraud? as anything special may be true in some existential sense, akin to Hamlet?s problem with ?seems,? but this is not the moral force of Graecen?s remark. He clearly censures duplicitous behavior, and I take that as Durrell talking about himself, as ?odd? as that may seem.Bruce> On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:54 PM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:> > Of course LD knew he was a fraud. All artists know that, especially writers. None of us is what we seem. Writers just make a professsion of it, that's all. Anyone who thinks he is telling the truth is deceiving herself.> RP -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 3Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:58:58 -0800From: Kennedy Gammage To: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] SeemsMessage-ID:	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Quoting Hamlet, Bruce just reminded me of Rosencrantz & Guildenstern AreDead. Wanted to ask Bruce about Acte, Durrell's second play, which herecently purchased at a local bookstore: have you read it yet? What did youthink? It's natural for a writer of Durrell's gifts to want to write inalmost every genre - you want to conquer the world! But were his playsgood? Not compared to Stoppard. Maybe compared to Eliot?Recent Nobel Prize winners in Literature are from unexpected places allover the world. We all know Durrell wanted that prize - and possiblydeserved it. But I'm not sure I've seen an analysis of his oeuvre comparedwith the recent winners. If such an article appeared in the NY Review ofBooks I would read it avidly.Thanks - KenOn Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:31 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:> Seems, madam? Nay, it is. I know not ?seems.?>> ?*Hamlet*>> He wondered if perhaps all great artists, from whose company he> reluctantly excluded himself, were not absolutely revolting as human> beings. Dostoevsky writing about Christian meekness while he browbeat> his menservants, Lawrence saying nasty things about one when one wasn?t> there ? It was very odd.>> *?Dark Labyrinth,* p. 258>>>> I guess I?m one of those deceiving myself. Richard Pine?s objection to> ?fraud? as anything special may be true in some existential sense, akin to> Hamlet?s problem with ?seems,? but this is not the moral force of Graecen?s> remark. He clearly censures duplicitous behavior, and I take that as> Durrell talking about himself, as ?odd? as that may seem.>> Bruce>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:54 PM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:>> Of course LD knew he was a fraud. All artists know that, especially> writers. None of us is what we seem. Writers just make a professsion of it,> that's all. Anyone who thinks he is telling the truth is deceiving herself.> RP>>>> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________ILDS mailing listILDS at lists.uvic.cahttps://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds------------------------------End of ILDS Digest, Vol 104, Issue 13*************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20151216/904725af/attachment.html>


More information about the ILDS mailing list