From sharbanibm at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 00:14:45 2015 From: sharbanibm at gmail.com (sharbani banerjee(mukherjee)) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:44:45 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> Message-ID: James, my PhD. Thesis on the Quartet has a separate chapter on Durrell's use of myth. On 30-Nov-2015 1:41 am, "James Gifford" wrote: > Hello all, > > In haste before a book launch tonight... > > I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In > one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's > kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's > influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in > the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side > of things than anyone else. > > At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the > books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, > and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for > /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." > > Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, > linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key > to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the > "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in > the real Keats' sense of the term). > > Best, > James > > On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: > >> I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of >> Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach >> , >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde >> >> Amazon >> http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC >> > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 07:31:32 2015 From: bredwine1968 at gmail.com (Bruce Redwine) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 07:31:32 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in Lawrence Durrell: Comprehending the Whole, ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. Bynum (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup Frye approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the context of Eliot?s Waste Land and the Four Quartets. She does not mention, however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I doubt Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. Bruce > On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:10 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > Hello all, > > In haste before a book launch tonight... > > I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side of things than anyone else. > > At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." > > Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in the real Keats' sense of the term). > > Best, > James > > On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: >> I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of >> Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach >> , >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde >> >> Amazon >> http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 07:52:46 2015 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 07:52:46 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <565C70CE.40307@gmail.com> Hi Sharbani, I'll usually write off list, but this may be of interest to others as well. I have your thesis in the online bibliography, but I don't believe I have a copy. I deposit a copy of any theses and dissertations I receive at the University of Victoria so that there's a repository. If you have a digital copy and would like that, please let me know. A quick reminder to everyone that the online bibliography is a free resource open to everyone through Zotero, an online interface or a free downloadable application: http://lawrencedurrell.org/wp_durrell/critical-bibliography/ All best, James On 2015-11-30 12:14 AM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) wrote: > James, my PhD. Thesis on the Quartet has a separate chapter on Durrell's > use of myth. > > On 30-Nov-2015 1:41 am, "James Gifford" > wrote: > > Hello all, > > In haste before a book launch tonight... > > I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the > Quartet. In one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the > roots of Durrell's kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot > of struggle with Eliot's influence across the books of the Quartet > (discussed on this listserv in the past as well). Carol Peirce > probably did more to elucidate that side of things than anyone else. > > At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and > the books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in > the game, and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his > letters to Fliess for /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure > you are right." > > Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential > meanings, linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical > traumas -- all are key to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have > learned his lesson from the "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his > shower: Negative Capability (in the real Keats' sense of the term). > > Best, > James > > On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: > > I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known > story of > Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach > , > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde > > Amazon > http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > From sharbanibm at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 09:32:01 2015 From: sharbanibm at gmail.com (sharbani banerjee(mukherjee)) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 23:02:01 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a trope etc All the best Sharbani On 30-Nov-2015 9:14 pm, "Bruce Redwine" wrote: > I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: > Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in *Lawrence Durrell: > Comprehending the Whole,* ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. Bynum > (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup Frye > approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the context of > Eliot?s *Waste Land* and the *Four Quartets.* She does not mention, > however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I doubt > Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. > > Bruce > > > > > > On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:10 PM, James Gifford > wrote: > > Hello all, > > In haste before a book launch tonight... > > I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In > one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's > kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's > influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in > the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side > of things than anyone else. > > At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the > books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, > and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for > /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." > > Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, > linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key > to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the > "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in > the real Keats' sense of the term). > > Best, > James > > On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: > > I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of > Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach > , > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde > > Amazon > http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frederick.schoff at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 09:50:10 2015 From: frederick.schoff at gmail.com (Rick Schoff) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:50:10 -0500 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would be interested! BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with a slight twist of the kaleidescope. - Rick On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) < sharbanibm at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy in > parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if it > interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, his > obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a trope etc > All the best > Sharbani > On 30-Nov-2015 9:14 pm, "Bruce Redwine" wrote: > >> I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: >> Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in *Lawrence Durrell: >> Comprehending the Whole,* ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. >> Bynum (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup >> Frye approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the >> context of Eliot?s *Waste Land* and the *Four Quartets.* She does not >> mention, however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I >> doubt Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:10 PM, James Gifford >> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> In haste before a book launch tonight... >> >> I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In >> one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's >> kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's >> influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in >> the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side >> of things than anyone else. >> >> At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the >> books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, >> and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for >> /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." >> >> Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, >> linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key >> to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the >> "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in >> the real Keats' sense of the term). >> >> Best, >> James >> >> On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: >> >> I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of >> Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach >> , >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde >> >> Amazon >> http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilded at hotmail.com Mon Nov 30 10:40:41 2015 From: wilded at hotmail.com (david wilde) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:40:41 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: , <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net>, , <56537292.9040403@gmail.com>, , <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com>, <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net>, <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr>, <56566943.10604@gmail.com>, , <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com>, , , , <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com>, <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com>, , Message-ID: Bruce. Wouldn't wish to underestimate Mr Durrell. Look at the numbers? David Wilde Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:50:10 -0500 From: frederick.schoff at gmail.com To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism I would be interested! BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with a slight twist of the kaleidescope. - Rick On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) wrote: Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a trope etc All the best Sharbani On 30-Nov-2015 9:14 pm, "Bruce Redwine" wrote: I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in Lawrence Durrell: Comprehending the Whole, ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. Bynum (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup Frye approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the context of Eliot?s Waste Land and the Four Quartets. She does not mention, however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I doubt Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. Bruce On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:10 PM, James Gifford wrote: Hello all, In haste before a book launch tonight... I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side of things than anyone else. At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in the real Keats' sense of the term). Best, James On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach , (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde Amazon http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 11:34:29 2015 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:34:29 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <565CA4C5.1040906@gmail.com> I'll second Rick's enthusiasm. Please do share, Sharbani, and I'll be glad to deposit a copy. As for the mirrors, Ray Morrison has a very fine article on the topic. Matthew Bolton also write a strong article for an issue of Agora about ten years back (goodness!): http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/202/300/agora/2004/v3n01/ The enormous care than went into layering the myths, the mirrors, the politics, the psychoanalytic allusions, etc. is remarkable. All best, James On 2015-11-30 9:50 AM, Rick Schoff wrote: > > I would be interested! > > BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the > references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the > Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with > a slight twist of the kaleidescope. > > - Rick > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) > > wrote: > > Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy > in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if > it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, > his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a > trope etc > All the best > Sharbani From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Mon Nov 30 11:56:45 2015 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:56:45 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <723D04D4-138C-4784-BDDA-45C536413AD9@earthlink.net> Numbers? Supporters? I guess one can always says imagery is multivalent and the author omniscient. But I tend to see Durrell?s ?wound? usage in the primary context of his concerns about sex, sexuality, gender, and violence?all big topics of a personal nature. I don?t see von Eschenbach?s story/myth about Parsifal?s pursuit of the Holy Grail as particularly relevant, unless you want to argue that Darley and his Alexandria are suffering from some kind of psychic impotence. Could be the case, however. If so, then the argument has to be made. I believe we?re discussing where and what to emphasize. Bruce > On Nov 30, 2015, at 10:40 AM, david wilde wrote: > > Bruce. Wouldn't wish to underestimate Mr Durrell. Look at the numbers? David Wilde > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:50:10 -0500 > From: frederick.schoff at gmail.com > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism > > > I would be interested! > > BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with a slight twist of the kaleidescope. > > - Rick > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) > wrote: > Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a trope etc > All the best > Sharbani > On 30-Nov-2015 9:14 pm, "Bruce Redwine" > wrote: > I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in Lawrence Durrell: Comprehending the Whole, ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. Bynum (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup Frye approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the context of Eliot?s Waste Land and the Four Quartets. She does not mention, however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I doubt Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. > > Bruce > > > > > > On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:10 PM, James Gifford > wrote: > > Hello all, > > In haste before a book launch tonight... > > I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side of things than anyone else. > > At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." > > Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in the real Keats' sense of the term). > > Best, > James > > On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: > I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of > Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach > >, > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal ). David Wilde > > Amazon > http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com Mon Nov 30 11:56:59 2015 From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:56:59 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <565CA4C5.1040906@gmail.com> References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> <565CA4C5.1040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: In New Orleans five years ago Kerriane Pearson, then of Salem State College, delivered a paper called "The Lovely Head: The Significance of Portraiture in Durrell's _Justine_" which I thought had some quite insightful comments about mirrors. Thanks very much - Ken P.S. I was so very happy to be there at OMG XVI with Bill Godshalk! On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 11:34 AM, James Gifford wrote: > I'll second Rick's enthusiasm. Please do share, Sharbani, and I'll be > glad to deposit a copy. > > As for the mirrors, Ray Morrison has a very fine article on the topic. > Matthew Bolton also write a strong article for an issue of Agora about ten > years back (goodness!): > > http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/202/300/agora/2004/v3n01/ > > The enormous care than went into layering the myths, the mirrors, the > politics, the psychoanalytic allusions, etc. is remarkable. > > All best, > James > > On 2015-11-30 9:50 AM, Rick Schoff wrote: > >> >> I would be interested! >> >> BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the >> references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the >> Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with >> a slight twist of the kaleidescope. >> >> - Rick >> >> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) >> > wrote: >> >> Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy >> in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if >> it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, >> his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a >> trope etc >> All the best >> Sharbani >> > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cls9k at virginia.edu Mon Nov 30 14:44:20 2015 From: cls9k at virginia.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:44:20 -0500 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> <565CA4C5.1040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ken shares the following: P.S. I was so very happy to be there at OMG XVI with Bill Godshalk! Oh, yes -- Bill brought learning, wit, and laughter that made all rooms a pleasure -- great days, and a glass raised. C&c. ***************************************** Charles L. Sligh charles.sligh at virginia.edu Department of English University of Virginia Bryan Hall 219 P.O. Box 400121 Charlottesville, Virginia 22904-4121 ***************************************** On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote: > In New Orleans five years ago Kerriane Pearson, then of Salem State > College, delivered a paper called "The Lovely Head: The Significance of > Portraiture in Durrell's _Justine_" which I thought had some quite > insightful comments about mirrors. > > Thanks very much - Ken > > P.S. I was so very happy to be there at OMG XVI with Bill Godshalk! > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 11:34 AM, James Gifford > wrote: > >> I'll second Rick's enthusiasm. Please do share, Sharbani, and I'll be >> glad to deposit a copy. >> >> As for the mirrors, Ray Morrison has a very fine article on the topic. >> Matthew Bolton also write a strong article for an issue of Agora about ten >> years back (goodness!): >> >> http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/202/300/agora/2004/v3n01/ >> >> The enormous care than went into layering the myths, the mirrors, the >> politics, the psychoanalytic allusions, etc. is remarkable. >> >> All best, >> James >> >> On 2015-11-30 9:50 AM, Rick Schoff wrote: >> >>> >>> I would be interested! >>> >>> BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the >>> references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the >>> Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with >>> a slight twist of the kaleidescope. >>> >>> - Rick >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy >>> in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if >>> it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, >>> his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a >>> trope etc >>> All the best >>> Sharbani >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilded at hotmail.com Tue Dec 1 08:46:24 2015 From: wilded at hotmail.com (david wilde) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 09:46:24 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> References: , <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net>, , <56537292.9040403@gmail.com>, , <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com>, <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net>, <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr>, <56566943.10604@gmail.com>, , <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com>, , , , <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com>, <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_King From: bredwine1968 at gmail.com Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 07:31:32 -0800 To: james.d.gifford at gmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca CC: bredwine1968 at gmail.com Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in Lawrence Durrell: Comprehending the Whole, ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. Bynum (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup Frye approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the context of Eliot?s Waste Land and the Four Quartets. She does not mention, however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I doubt Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. Bruce On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:10 PM, James Gifford wrote:Hello all, In haste before a book launch tonight... I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side of things than anyone else. At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in the real Keats' sense of the term). Best, James On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach , (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde Amazon http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilded at hotmail.com Tue Dec 1 09:08:10 2015 From: wilded at hotmail.com (david wilde) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 10:08:10 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <723D04D4-138C-4784-BDDA-45C536413AD9@earthlink.net> References: , <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net>, , <56537292.9040403@gmail.com>, , <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com>, <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net>, <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr>, <56566943.10604@gmail.com>, , <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com>, , , , <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com>, <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com>, , , , <723D04D4-138C-4784-BDDA-45C536413AD9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: My apologies for giving the 'wrong' citation. It should have been: "In Arthurian legend the Fisher King, or the Wounded King, is the last in a long line charged with keeping the Holy Grail. Versions of his story vary widely, but he is always wounded in the legs or groin and incapable of moving on his own. In the Fisher King legends, he becomes impotent and unable to perform his task himself, and he also becomes unable to father or support a next generation to carry on after his death. His kingdom suffers as he does, his impotence affecting the fertility of the land and reducing it to a barren wasteland. All he is able to do is fish in the river near his castle, Corbenic, and wait for someone who might be able to heal him. Healing involves the expectation of the use of magic. Knights travel from many lands to heal the Fisher King, but only the chosen can accomplish the feat. This is Percival in earlier stories; in later versions, he is joined by Galahad and Bors. Many works have two wounded "Grail Kings" who live in the same castle, a father and son (or grandfather and grandson). The more seriously wounded father stays in the castle, sustained by the Grail alone, while the more active son can meet with guests and go fishing. For the purposes of clarity in the remainder of this article, where both appear, the father will be called the Wounded King, the son the Fisher King." From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:56:45 -0800 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism Numbers? Supporters? I guess one can always says imagery is multivalent and the author omniscient. But I tend to see Durrell?s ?wound? usage in the primary context of his concerns about sex, sexuality, gender, and violence?all big topics of a personal nature. I don?t see von Eschenbach?s story/myth about Parsifal?s pursuit of the Holy Grail as particularly relevant, unless you want to argue that Darley and his Alexandria are suffering from some kind of psychic impotence. Could be the case, however. If so, then the argument has to be made. I believe we?re discussing where and what to emphasize. Bruce On Nov 30, 2015, at 10:40 AM, david wilde wrote:Bruce. Wouldn't wish to underestimate Mr Durrell. Look at the numbers? David Wilde Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:50:10 -0500 From: frederick.schoff at gmail.com To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism I would be interested! BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with a slight twist of the kaleidescope. - Rick On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) wrote: Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a trope etc All the best SharbaniOn 30-Nov-2015 9:14 pm, "Bruce Redwine" wrote: I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in Lawrence Durrell: Comprehending the Whole, ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. Bynum (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup Frye approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the context of Eliot?s Waste Land and the Four Quartets. She does not mention, however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I doubt Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. Bruce On Nov 29, 2015, at 12:10 PM, James Gifford wrote: Hello all, In haste before a book launch tonight... I've always struggled a bit over the mythical elements of the Quartet. In one sense, gesturing to the Fisher King goes to the roots of Durrell's kinship with the High Modernists, and I see a lot of struggle with Eliot's influence across the books of the Quartet (discussed on this listserv in the past as well). Carol Peirce probably did more to elucidate that side of things than anyone else. At the same time, we can't forget that "sex" also means gender, and the books had the "bisexual love" modified to "modern love" late in the game, and the continuation of the epigram from Freud in his letters to Fliess for /Justine/ reads "As for bisexuality, I'm sure you are right." Wounded in one's sex nicely carries across all those potential meanings, linking the Fisher King to bisexuality, to physical traumas -- all are key to the Quartet, and Durrell seems to have learned his lesson from the "newly god-like" Keats emerging from his shower: Negative Capability (in the real Keats' sense of the term). Best, James On 2015-11-28 11:28 AM, david wilde wrote: I understood/understand this remark refers to the well-known story of Parsifal by Wolfram von Eschenbach , (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal). David Wilde Amazon http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B003FP9HTC _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Tue Dec 1 11:59:27 2015 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 11:59:27 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Mythology in Durrell In-Reply-To: References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <56572D2C.9070606@gmail.com> <565B5BA4.4050601@gmail.com> <905F989B-B36C-47AE-80C4-69469141C8AE@gmail.com> <723D04D4-138C-4784-BDDA-45C536413AD9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: As cited below, I highly recommend Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail.? She is very good at putting in historical context Durrell?s use of the Grail myth and the Fisher King. This does not answer my question, however, of how seriously myth should be taken in Durrell?s oeuvre. Pierce quotes a letter from Durrell to Eliot, where the latter plays the role of father confessor: [M]y problems are not technical but personal. It remains only to see whether I develop as a person; the mere writing is nothing compared to the grind of personality against its own sicknesses. I find the statement revealing. I would submit that Durrell?s use of mythology, as he himself eloquently explains, is a screen for ?the grind of personality against its own sicknesses.? He doesn?t elaborate on these ?sicknesses? (how could he?), but as bits of his personality are exposed (see Richard Pine on Durrell?s misogyny [21 Nov. 2015]), new ways open up to look at his works. I would emphasize the new ways and downplay the mythic allusions. Bruce > On Dec 1, 2015, at 9:08 AM, david wilde wrote: > > My apologies for giving the 'wrong' citation. It should have been: > > > "In Arthurian legend the Fisher King, or the Wounded King, is the last in a long line charged with keeping the Holy Grail . Versions of his story vary widely, but he is always wounded in the legs or groin and incapable of moving on his own. In the Fisher King legends, he becomes impotent and unable to perform his task himself, and he also becomes unable to father or support a next generation to carry on after his death. His kingdom suffers as he does, his impotence affecting the fertility of the land and reducing it to a barren wasteland . All he is able to do is fish in the river near his castle, Corbenic , and wait for someone who might be able to heal him. Healing involves the expectation of the use of magic. Knights travel from many lands to heal the Fisher King, but only the chosen can accomplish the feat. This is Percival in earlier stories; in later versions, he is joined by Galahad and Bors . > Many works have two wounded "Grail Kings" who live in the same castle, a father and son (or grandfather and grandson). The more seriously wounded father stays in the castle, sustained by the Grail alone, while the more active son can meet with guests and go fishing. For the purposes of clarity in the remainder of this article, where both appear, the father will be called the Wounded King, the son the Fisher King." > > > From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:56:45 -0800 > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism > > Numbers? Supporters? I guess one can always says imagery is multivalent and the author omniscient. But I tend to see Durrell?s ?wound? usage in the primary context of his concerns about sex, sexuality, gender, and violence?all big topics of a personal nature. I don?t see von Eschenbach?s story/myth about Parsifal?s pursuit of the Holy Grail as particularly relevant, unless you want to argue that Darley and his Alexandria are suffering from some kind of psychic impotence. Could be the case, however. If so, then the argument has to be made. I believe we?re discussing where and what to emphasize. > > Bruce > > > > > > On Nov 30, 2015, at 10:40 AM, david wilde > wrote: > > Bruce. Wouldn't wish to underestimate Mr Durrell. Look at the numbers? David Wilde > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:50:10 -0500 > From: frederick.schoff at gmail.com > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism > > > I would be interested! > > BTW - I was starting an AQ reread and noticed in particular all the references to mirrors in the early section. Also, a great image of the Cohen character having slipped out of sight, like a piece shifting with a slight twist of the kaleidescope. > > - Rick > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, sharbani banerjee(mukherjee) > wrote: > Hi James, Thanks for the thesis note. Yes, I do have a digital copy in parts, which I need to compile together. I will surely do that if it interests anybody. I did a bit of work on Durrell's use of myth, his obsession with mirrors/reflections, use of the carnival as a trope etc > All the best > Sharbani > On 30-Nov-2015 9:14 pm, "Bruce Redwine" > wrote: > I believe James is referring to Carol Peirce?s ?A Fellowship in Time: Durrell, Eliot, and the Quest of the Grail,? in Lawrence Durrell: Comprehending the Whole, ed. J. R. Raper, M. L. Encore, and P. M. Bynum (Columbia: U of Missouri P, 1995): 70-81. Good essay. A Northrup Frye approach, Peirce discusses Durrell and the ?Grail-quest? in the context of Eliot?s Waste Land and the Four Quartets. She does not mention, however, Parsifal, the wound, and von Eschenbach. Personally, I doubt Durrell intended the allusion, although possible. > > Bruce > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sumantranag at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 00:14:25 2015 From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 13:44:25 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 Message-ID: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> http://www.newsweek.com/remembering-lawrence-durrell-predictor-our-postmoder n-world-65077 'Durrell's characters suffer as they try to negotiate their multiverse, twisting themselves painfully to reconcile the impossible and dying in the contortions. It's a crisis Durrell went through himself, growing up a third-generation Anglo-Irish colonial in India.' "I have an Indian heart and an English skin," he said. "I realized this very late, when I was twenty-one, twenty-two. It created a sort of psychological crisis. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I realized suddenly that I was not English really, I was not European. There was something going on underneath and I realized that it was the effect of India on my thinking." (Quoting Lawrence Durrell) I think part of the content here (written in an article at the time of Durrell's centenary) advances the view that not just his relatively brief childhood in India until the age of about 12, but his inheritance as a third generation Anglo-Irish in India, influenced the way that he looked at the world. Sumantra Nag -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grtaneja47 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 5 05:14:50 2015 From: grtaneja47 at hotmail.com (G. R. Taneja) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 18:44:50 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Madness In-Reply-To: <32654BC5-5625-412A-9B6E-AD7CD23E2217@earthlink.net> References: , <32654BC5-5625-412A-9B6E-AD7CD23E2217@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Bruce's delightful comment on the "mad," "bad" twentieth century: I hvn't read the Heller book. The sub-title describes it as focusing on German literature and thought. I was wondering if it touches on things outside Germany. If it does, it would be a useful book to look through. Warmly, G R Taneja In-between Website: G. R. Taneja / Editor In-between: Essays & Studies in Literary Criticism Department of English, R. L. A. College, University of Delhi Anand Niketan Colony, Benito Juarez Marg, New Delhi-110 021, India From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 16:18:33 -0800 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Subject: [ilds] Madness As Richard rightly suggests, Lawrence Durrell may have been too much in tuned with the ?madness? of modern civilization. From the perspective of German literature, Romantic through Modern, Erich Heller has written about this in his Disinherited Mind (1959) and other works of criticism. Friedrich H?lderlin had mental illness, and Nietzsche went mad (although probably due to syphilis). As Lady Caroline Lamb said, Lord Byron was of course ?mad, bad, and dangerous to know.? Sappho Jane says pretty much the same thing about her father. Who can read today?s newspapers and not conclude that our times are indeed ?mad?? Bruce On Nov 25, 2015, at 3:02 PM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote: Looking through my MINDSCAPE (revised edition) I am struck by the frequency of the references to, and dicussion of, madness. Especially the chapter devoted to TUNC and NUNQUAM. But LD's own ideas about madness can be found in a notebook which may date as early as 1939: ?madness is merely a revolution in behaviour, not an interior schism or disease?. Also, in my discussion of the QUINTET, I pay much attention to the characters of Livia and Sylvie: ?frozen into the total madness of insight?.: ?though she has very distinct marks of madness in her look one always feels that to call her insane would be to put all ontology to the question?. Sobering words. LD himself, as I say in the book, was, while writing TUNC and NUNQUAM, afraid that he himself was not merely "on the edge of madness" but about to topple in. His very clearly drunken notes from that period, and from his very last notebook, make it clear to me that he was quite frightened by this, exarcebated as it was by the theme running through TUNC/NUNQUAM, that civilisation itself was enetring a period of madness. RP _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grtaneja47 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 5 05:19:39 2015 From: grtaneja47 at hotmail.com (G. R. Taneja) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 18:49:39 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> References: , <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net>, , <56537292.9040403@gmail.com>, , <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> Message-ID: "After that, all bets are off... Biographically, MacNiven presents the mid-1950s as particularly liquid and the 1980s as especially so, for different reasons.All best,James" Very well put James. Warmly, G R Taneja In-between Website: G. R. Taneja / Editor In-between: Essays & Studies in Literary Criticism Department of English, R. L. A. College, University of Delhi Anand Niketan Colony, Benito Juarez Marg, New Delhi-110 021, India > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 07:48:57 -0800 > Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism > > Welcome to the listserv Rick! > > The alcoholic writer can be a cliche mainly because there are so many > ready examples (Hemingway, Faulkner, Joyce, Djuna Barnes, Lowry, &c.). > Often there can be a tendency to diagnose from a distance > (self-medicating for depression & such), but I'm dubious of those kinds > of conversations with dead people. I've never been sure how to read the > matter in the fiction for Durrell -- for Hemingway, "drunk" or "tight" > carry broader meanings, almost allegorical, and certainly a conscious > part of the construction of the text. I don't really see the same in > Durrell, although it could be interesting to be convinced otherwise. > > There is a bit of shift in alcohol across the works as well. In /Pied > Piper of Lovers/ (1935) there isn't much alcohol at all, apart from a > peculiar cocktail at a party (bunny hug) and a first juvenile > indulgence. By /Panic Spring/ (1937), there's an empty bottle of gin, > but not for Durrell's alter ego Walsh. From around the same time > biographically, Theodore Stephanides recounts Durrell and Miller > discovering a Corfiot cafe with much English gin, to their great > satisfaction (in Stephanides' memoirs from James Brigham's papers). > > After that, all bets are off... Biographically, MacNiven presents the > mid-1950s as particularly liquid and the 1980s as especially so, for > different reasons. > > All best, > James > > On 2015-11-25 5:40 AM, Rick Schoff wrote: > > As new to the list, I find these discussions fascinating. As I've > > mentioned, I am simply an avid reader of Durrell, and have reread the > > fiction in particular many times. I've read one informative but not > > particularly interesting bigraphy, as well as numerous articles about > > Durrell over the years. I recently found a copy of Richard Pine's > > "Mindscape" and look forward to reading that. > > > > In reading comments by scholars, some of whom spent ime with Durrell, > > and seeing issues raised such as professed unhappiness, boredom, > > violence in fiction and real life, and self-loathing - I couldn't help > > but recall numerous references over the years to Durrell's use of > > alcohol. I often hesitate to read biographical material about artists > > whose work I greatly admire, but having delved a little into Durrell's > > life, I couldn't help wondering what effect Durrell's alleged steady > > drinking might have had on his life and work. I understand he was a > > ferociously intelligent man with boundless energy, who led a > > fascinatingly exotic life. I saw one comment by someone who knew him (I > > don't recall who) that relayed that when writing Durrell lived on the > > 'edge of madness'. I couldn't help but wonder about the psycholgocal > > aspects. > > > > For many reasons, I proffer this issue very tentatively, but my interest > > and curiosity have gotten the better of me. 'Alcohol and the writer' is > > almost a cliche, but I don't find anything of Durrell's cliched. He was > > an original. > > > > - Rick Schoff > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grtaneja47 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 5 05:27:49 2015 From: grtaneja47 at hotmail.com (G. R. Taneja) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 18:57:49 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: , <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net>, , <56537292.9040403@gmail.com>, , <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com>, <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net>, <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr>, <56566943.10604@gmail.com>, , , Message-ID: That's pure wisdom from down under: "... in terra Australis we have a few sayings: beer makes you feel the way you should feel without beer, I drink to make other people interesting, a day without wine is a day without sunshine, the purpose of wine is to bring happiness to man - and so on. Durrell was a pisspot, his brother was worse but not violent. Larry was ok on the wine but when got seriously onto to hard stuff there was often, as the Irish say, a fight in every bottle." Warmly, G R Taneja In-between Website: G. R. Taneja / Editor In-between: Essays & Studies in Literary Criticism Department of English, R. L. A. College, University of Delhi Anand Niketan Colony, Benito Juarez Marg, New Delhi-110 021, India From: billyapt at gmail.com Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:06:58 -0600 To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca CC: dtart at bigpond.net.au Subject: Re: [ilds] Alcoholism "I drink to make other people interesting." Now that's some high level stuff! WILLIAM APTAttorney at Law812 San Antonio St, Ste 401Austin TX 78701512/708-8300512/708-8011 FAX On Nov 26, 2015, at 12:33 AM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: Ah, alcohol, my favourite subject. Well, one of them. Marc Piel is right. There is big difference between sipping on the wine and hitting the whiskey. Two and a half bottles of wine taken over a long day - Durrell started about 10am - will not cause drunkenness in a seasoned drinker as Durrell was and was a level of daily consumption not uncommon in Provence then and indeed now. But if you put the Vieux Marc, a strong spirit, on top of this things get ugly and from my research, this is when lord Larry could become an ugly drunk as Sappho and others attest. Durrell lived in age of heavy drinking and smoking which in our increasingly sanitised, health conscious world is hard to imagine. It may be he did not stand out all that much among his own set. Ok, a toper is a big drinker, not necessarily a drunkard. There an element of the heroic about it with the Viking God Thor described as a mighty eater and toper. As to the cliche of the alcoholic writer; many are alcoholics, some are writers, others builders labourers, some academics or school teachers and others even leaders of nations. What makes people alcoholics, and I think Durrell was one all his adult life, is not easy to answer but in terra Australis we have a few sayings: beer makes you feel the way you should feel without beer, I drink to make other people interesting, a day without wine is a day without sunshine, the purpose of wine is to bring happiness to man - and so on. Durrell was a pisspot, his brother was worse but not violent. Larry was ok on the wine but when got seriously onto to hard stuff there was often, as the Irish say, a fight in every bottle. David Whitewine - Richmond Grove Chardonnay. Sent from my iPad On 26 Nov 2015, at 2:17 pm, Bruce Redwine wrote: James, I?m not sure what you mean by ?an ethical issue.? That is not what I?m talking about, rather what drove Durrell to alcoholism. The cause is what interests me. On the other hand, as a critic pointed out long ago, Durrell?s ?toper? in Bitter Lemons is espoused as a big virtue. (I'm relying on memory here and could have it wrong.?) My understanding of British toper is that it refers to a ?drunkard.? Maybe the British sense also connotes being able to ?hold one?s own.? That is, a kind of ?manliness.? Drink in Hemingway is excess, to wit, Colonel Cantrell?s drinking problems in Across the River. I don?t see any ?self-censorship? involved, although the colonel?s heart disease may be mitigating factor. Bruce On Nov 25, 2015, at 6:06 PM, James Gifford wrote:I wonder if it's worth considering the ethical element here as well. Surely alcoholism is not an ethical issue in itself -- very often people will act out in ethically dubious ways due to their addictions, but the addiction itself is ethically neutral. Durrell drank, and while that certainly shaped some of his bad behavior, it's not really a thing unto itself. Someone like Lowry made alcoholism an integral part of the work. Hemingway made drink figure in the text as a marker for self-censorship. Durrell, Joyce, Barnes, et al. don't strike me in the same way. Cheers, James On 2015-11-25 5:11 PM, Marc Piel wrote: Surely you cannot compare wine (11?) and whisky(>45?) Marc _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 15:02:48 2015 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 15:02:48 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> Thanks for pointing us back to this article, Sumantra. I don't know if it was discussed on the listserv before, but Charles Sligh and I noted at some point (perhaps in Louisville, maybe by phone) that one or the other of us must have looked absolutely awful at the centenary... We were in the same room he describes as "Of the sad sprinkle of attendees I am only one of two people under 60." In any case, his and your point about Durrell's Indian childhood and displacement to England is, I think, vital. If you haven't a copy of /Pied Piper of Lovers/, my introduction to it is available online through the MLA Commons and outlines some of this: http://dx.doi.org/10.17613/M6QS3Q https://commons.mla.org/deposits/download/mla:376/CONTENT/pied_sample_2008.pdf/ One of the peculiarities I point to is the expression of colonial privilege in the novel -- the expected descriptions of Indians as childish or animalistic occur. However, they're voiced by the adults while the child, Durrell's alter ego in the novel, retreats from them to seek out meaningful contact with Indians. That's not so much to "rescue" Durrell from the realities of his colonial position but rather to note the importance of the difference from, say, Kipling or comparisons to Scott or Kaye. There's a key scene in the novel in which Walsh returns to England and, on the ship, finds himself unable to engage with the English while also unable to talk with and Indian girl of his own age. That dual estrangement is, I'd argue, central to all his subsequent works. All best, James On 2015-12-05 12:14 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote: > http://www.newsweek.com/remembering-lawrence-durrell-predictor-our-postmodern-world-65077 > > ?Durrell?s characters suffer as they try to negotiate their multiverse, > twisting themselves painfully to reconcile the impossible and dying in > the contortions. It?s a crisis Durrell went through himself, growing up > a third-generation Anglo-Irish colonial in India.? > > ?I have an Indian heart and an English skin,? he said. ?I realized this > very late, when I was twenty-one, twenty-two. It created a sort of > psychological crisis. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I realized > suddenly that I was not English really, I was not European. There was > something going on underneath and I realized that it was the effect of > India on my thinking.? (Quoting Lawrence Durrell) > > I think part of the content here (written in an article at the time of > Durrell?s centenary) advances the view that not just his relatively > brief childhood in India until the age of about 12, but his inheritance > as a third generation Anglo-Irish in India, influenced the way that he > looked at the world. > > Sumantra Nag > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 15:16:46 2015 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 15:16:46 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5663705E.7020005@gmail.com> Welcome comments, Gushan! Also, you've made me realize a subtle point in David's remark: he's quoting Australian sayings (I think these were taken as self-descriptions...). Best, James On 2015-12-05 5:27 AM, G. R. Taneja wrote: > > That's pure wisdom from down under: > > "... in terra Australis we have a few sayings: beer makes you feel the > way you should feel without beer, I drink to make other people > interesting, a day without wine is a day without sunshine, the purpose > of wine is to bring happiness to man - and so on. Durrell was a pisspot, > his brother was worse but not violent. Larry was ok on the wine but when > got seriously onto to hard stuff there was often, as the Irish say, a > fight in every bottle." From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sat Dec 5 17:22:49 2015 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 12:22:49 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Alcoholism In-Reply-To: <5663705E.7020005@gmail.com> References: <5C8804EA-CE97-4594-A51B-65C2368288A3@earthlink.net> <56537292.9040403@gmail.com> <5655D869.5040800@gmail.com> <8DA02DE7-300C-4C9C-8468-909E42C276A1@earthlink.net> <82A5BFEB-65CF-4FD3-8141-D7446C41E4B3@marcpiel.fr> <56566943.10604@gmail.com> <5663705E.7020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear James, that would be entirely understandable. Happen to agree with all of them, but they ain't mine. David Sent from my iPad > On 6 Dec 2015, at 10:16 am, James Gifford wrote: > > Welcome comments, Gushan! Also, you've made me realize a subtle point in David's remark: he's quoting Australian sayings (I think these were taken as self-descriptions...). > > Best, > James > >> On 2015-12-05 5:27 AM, G. R. Taneja wrote: >> >> That's pure wisdom from down under: >> >> "... in terra Australis we have a few sayings: beer makes you feel the >> way you should feel without beer, I drink to make other people >> interesting, a day without wine is a day without sunshine, the purpose >> of wine is to bring happiness to man - and so on. Durrell was a pisspot, >> his brother was worse but not violent. Larry was ok on the wine but when >> got seriously onto to hard stuff there was often, as the Irish say, a >> fight in every bottle." > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 6 09:03:11 2015 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:03:11 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> Message-ID: It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if correct)?were often big racists. The historian Niall Ferguson (a Scot educated at Oxford [DPhil]) has written about this in Empire (2002). He describes how the Brits in the 19th century and early 20th, as a rule, believed in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race and its ?God-given right? to rule the world under the auspices of the ?British Empire.? Ferguson, however, sharply distinguishes between the British Civil Service in India (relatively few in number, perhaps a thousand) and the British missionary and mercantile class (the great majority of the colonials). The former (usually recruited from Oxbridge) he admires for its rigorous requirements of service (e.g., a knowledge of Hindi was necessary) and its respect for Indian culture. The latter he abhors for its attempts to convert, reform, and exploit ?the heathen.? Given this pervasive culture among the Anglo-Indians, it?s quite remarkable that Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth. I would add that Edward W. Said does not make any such distinction in his Orientalism (1978) and lumps Western attitudes under the latter class. Bruce > On Dec 5, 2015, at 3:02 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > Thanks for pointing us back to this article, Sumantra. I don't know if it was discussed on the listserv before, but Charles Sligh and I noted at some point (perhaps in Louisville, maybe by phone) that one or the other of us must have looked absolutely awful at the centenary... We were in the same room he describes as "Of the sad sprinkle of attendees I am only one of two people under 60." > > In any case, his and your point about Durrell's Indian childhood and displacement to England is, I think, vital. If you haven't a copy of /Pied Piper of Lovers/, my introduction to it is available online through the MLA Commons and outlines some of this: > > http://dx.doi.org/10.17613/M6QS3Q > > https://commons.mla.org/deposits/download/mla:376/CONTENT/pied_sample_2008.pdf/ > > One of the peculiarities I point to is the expression of colonial privilege in the novel -- the expected descriptions of Indians as childish or animalistic occur. However, they're voiced by the adults while the child, Durrell's alter ego in the novel, retreats from them to seek out meaningful contact with Indians. That's not so much to "rescue" Durrell from the realities of his colonial position but rather to note the importance of the difference from, say, Kipling or comparisons to Scott or Kaye. > > There's a key scene in the novel in which Walsh returns to England and, on the ship, finds himself unable to engage with the English while also unable to talk with and Indian girl of his own age. That dual estrangement is, I'd argue, central to all his subsequent works. > > All best, > James > > On 2015-12-05 12:14 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote: >> http://www.newsweek.com/remembering-lawrence-durrell-predictor-our-postmodern-world-65077 >> >> ?Durrell?s characters suffer as they try to negotiate their multiverse, >> twisting themselves painfully to reconcile the impossible and dying in >> the contortions. It?s a crisis Durrell went through himself, growing up >> a third-generation Anglo-Irish colonial in India.? >> >> ?I have an Indian heart and an English skin,? he said. ?I realized this >> very late, when I was twenty-one, twenty-two. It created a sort of >> psychological crisis. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I realized >> suddenly that I was not English really, I was not European. There was >> something going on underneath and I realized that it was the effect of >> India on my thinking.? (Quoting Lawrence Durrell) >> >> I think part of the content here (written in an article at the time of >> Durrell?s centenary) advances the view that not just his relatively >> brief childhood in India until the age of about 12, but his inheritance >> as a third generation Anglo-Irish in India, influenced the way that he >> looked at the world. >> >> Sumantra Nag >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 09:11:34 2015 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:11:34 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56646C46.9060504@gmail.com> I'd go along with that, Bruce. It does make Durrell's stance in /Pied Piper/ remarkable. However, I would suggest that despite the polemical nature of Said's /Orientalism/, the "Oxbridge" recruiting system is very much a part of that book's concerns. He's looking to Orientalism not just as a codeword for racism and exploitation but also very much as a scholarly discipline understood through a foucauldian disciplining of knowledge. Increasingly, I tend to read /Orientalism/ as a book about the modern university... I think I'm outside the pack on that one, admittedly. Best, James On 2015-12-06 9:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the > Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if > correct)?were often big racists. The historian Niall Ferguson (a Scot > educated at Oxford [DPhil]) has written about this in /Empire/ (2002). > He describes how the Brits in the 19th century and early 20th, as a > rule, believed in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race and its > ?God-given right? to rule the world under the auspices of the ?British > Empire.? Ferguson, however, sharply distinguishes between the British > Civil Service in India (relatively few in number, perhaps a thousand) > and the British missionary and mercantile class (the great majority of > the colonials). The former (usually recruited from Oxbridge) he admires > for its rigorous requirements of service (e.g., a knowledge of Hindi was > necessary) and its respect for Indian culture. The latter he abhors for > its attempts to convert, reform, and exploit ?the heathen.? Given this > pervasive culture among the Anglo-Indians, it?s quite remarkable that > Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth. I > would add that Edward W. Said does not make any such distinction in his > /Orientalism/ (1978) and lumps Western attitudes under the latter class. > > Bruce From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 6 09:23:40 2015 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:23:40 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: <56646C46.9060504@gmail.com> References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> <56646C46.9060504@gmail.com> Message-ID: James, yes. But it?s precisely Said?s portrayal of ?Orientalism? as a scholarly discipline that I strenuously object to. Said doesn?t discuss India in detail (he admits that); his emphasis is on Egypt and the Near East. His clear implication is that the Indian Civil Service was just another example of a Western power-grab in an occupied country. I don?t see this. As I?ve said before, he overstates his argument and ignores contrary evidence. I think Said?s argument borders on the paranoid. Bruce > On Dec 6, 2015, at 9:11 AM, James Gifford wrote: > > I'd go along with that, Bruce. It does make Durrell's stance in /Pied Piper/ remarkable. However, I would suggest that despite the polemical nature of Said's /Orientalism/, the "Oxbridge" recruiting system is very much a part of that book's concerns. He's looking to Orientalism not just as a codeword for racism and exploitation but also very much as a scholarly discipline understood through a foucauldian disciplining of knowledge. > > Increasingly, I tend to read /Orientalism/ as a book about the modern university... I think I'm outside the pack on that one, admittedly. > > Best, > James > > On 2015-12-06 9:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the >> Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if >> correct)?were often big racists. The historian Niall Ferguson (a Scot >> educated at Oxford [DPhil]) has written about this in /Empire/ (2002). >> He describes how the Brits in the 19th century and early 20th, as a >> rule, believed in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race and its >> ?God-given right? to rule the world under the auspices of the ?British >> Empire.? Ferguson, however, sharply distinguishes between the British >> Civil Service in India (relatively few in number, perhaps a thousand) >> and the British missionary and mercantile class (the great majority of >> the colonials). The former (usually recruited from Oxbridge) he admires >> for its rigorous requirements of service (e.g., a knowledge of Hindi was >> necessary) and its respect for Indian culture. The latter he abhors for >> its attempts to convert, reform, and exploit ?the heathen.? Given this >> pervasive culture among the Anglo-Indians, it?s quite remarkable that >> Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth. I >> would add that Edward W. Said does not make any such distinction in his >> /Orientalism/ (1978) and lumps Western attitudes under the latter class. >> >> Bruce > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 10:24:03 2015 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 10:24:03 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> <56646C46.9060504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56647D43.70106@gmail.com> Hi Bruce, We might have to just disagree on this one. In the ongoing development of postcolonial / decolonization studies, Said's shift was away from the primarily Marxist understandings brought to African decolonization through Fanon, C?saire, et al. by bringing in Foucault, institutions, and reorienting attention to Egypt and the Middle East. Despite the earlier historical decolonization of India, the discussion in Western critical studies followed after. I don't know if we can blame him too much for not covering it earlier. In a sense, this is why I've argued Said isn't necessarily helpful in reading Durrell (even though I use him for other work often). The project of Orientalism (as a discipline) relies on claims to veracity that Durrell's works consistently disrupt. In a sense, it's like the discourses of indigeneity that conflict with the materialist orientation of Marxist work on decolonization, even though there are an increasing number of projects putting those two things together. I also think that looking back to /Pied Piper/ changes how we see the later works. For instance, one of Manzalaoui's complaints against Durrell (pre-Said) is that he uses Urdu corruptions of Arabic in the Quartet -- knowing that he draws on rudimentary Urdu in that first novel gives a rationale for why. The in-between-ness (a real word?) of Walsh in that novel explains why we'd have Darley's Irishness later, which buffers him from the Imperial project just as Walsh's Anglo-Indian identity shelter (and excludes) him. Best, James On 2015-12-06 9:23 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, yes. But it?s precisely Said?s portrayal of ?Orientalism? as a scholarly discipline that I strenuously object to. Said doesn?t discuss India in detail (he admits that); his emphasis is on Egypt and the Near East. His clear implication is that the Indian Civil Service was just another example of a Western power-grab in an occupied country. I don?t see this. As I?ve said before, he overstates his argument and ignores contrary evidence. I think Said?s argument borders on the paranoid. > > Bruce > > > >> On Dec 6, 2015, at 9:11 AM, James Gifford wrote: >> >> I'd go along with that, Bruce. It does make Durrell's stance in /Pied Piper/ remarkable. However, I would suggest that despite the polemical nature of Said's /Orientalism/, the "Oxbridge" recruiting system is very much a part of that book's concerns. He's looking to Orientalism not just as a codeword for racism and exploitation but also very much as a scholarly discipline understood through a foucauldian disciplining of knowledge. >> >> Increasingly, I tend to read /Orientalism/ as a book about the modern university... I think I'm outside the pack on that one, admittedly. >> >> Best, >> James >> >> On 2015-12-06 9:03 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the >>> Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if >>> correct)?were often big racists. The historian Niall Ferguson (a Scot >>> educated at Oxford [DPhil]) has written about this in /Empire/ (2002). >>> He describes how the Brits in the 19th century and early 20th, as a >>> rule, believed in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race and its >>> ?God-given right? to rule the world under the auspices of the ?British >>> Empire.? Ferguson, however, sharply distinguishes between the British >>> Civil Service in India (relatively few in number, perhaps a thousand) >>> and the British missionary and mercantile class (the great majority of >>> the colonials). The former (usually recruited from Oxbridge) he admires >>> for its rigorous requirements of service (e.g., a knowledge of Hindi was >>> necessary) and its respect for Indian culture. The latter he abhors for >>> its attempts to convert, reform, and exploit ?the heathen.? Given this >>> pervasive culture among the Anglo-Indians, it?s quite remarkable that >>> Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth. I >>> would add that Edward W. Said does not make any such distinction in his >>> /Orientalism/ (1978) and lumps Western attitudes under the latter class. >>> >>> Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > From grtaneja47 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 6 10:17:45 2015 From: grtaneja47 at hotmail.com (G. R. Taneja) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 23:47:45 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sumantra: Thanks for the link to Peter Pomerantsev?s Newsweek write-up . I looked it up. But Durrell equally easily provides quotations wherein he would affirm that he was essentially spiritually an Englishman at heart and advise others never to bother about India if they wanted to understand _him_ or _his_ books. This doesn't really take the discussion any further or add anything to it. " ... his inheritance as a third generation Anglo-Irish in India, influenced the way that he looked at the world.? This question of third generation inheritance and its influence needs looking into. Perhaps others can explain its meaning as well significance in the context of Durrell. I wonder if Englishmen, obsessed with the inescapable burden of "class," did ever think that they were inheritors of any socio-cultural influence that they would take home when they leave India. Their best efforts for their children were to protect them from the threats that local filth, and an inferior local culture posed to them and their children. Also, the existence of Indian English accent--the natives speaking English to communicate--in the kitchen and the streets to which English children were exposed as they interacted with servants and native children, made it imperative that they were sent back "home" to preserve as much as the purity of accent as much as the purity of English-Christian character ! The foreigners in India lived literally in "ghettoes" and had very little social interaction with the natives. I think even a third generation Englishman remained untouched by any cultural inheritance that he might possible have acquired. Certainly not Durrell, in my opinion, despite the fact that he was born in India, and his both parents were born in India, too. Peter Pomerantsev?s Newsweek write-up does everything that journalism is expected to: it is a breezy, delightful read, has the right mix of regretful nostalgia to whip up guilt and curiosity about something that the reader has missed and is now grateful to be told. It is duly dramatized through his quoted conversation with the organiser of the Durrell event to which he went. Pomerantsev is right to focus on the experimental nature of AQ?but Durrell was not a pioneer in using self-conscious literary technique, which had been one of the major hallmarks of modernism since Joyce and before. But of course there is some merit to widely divergent views on an author. That Durrell has depth and lends himself to varied readings, chiefly, makes reading him an interesting experience. Warmly, G R Taneja In-between Website: G. R. Taneja / Editor In-between: Essays & Studies in Literary Criticism Department of English, R. L. A. College, University of Delhi Anand Niketan Colony, Benito Juarez Marg, New Delhi-110 021, India From: sumantranag at gmail.com To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 13:44:25 +0530 CC: james.d.gifford at gmail.com; bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 http://www.newsweek.com/remembering-lawrence-durrell-predictor-our-postmodern-world-65077 ?Durrell?s characters suffer as they try to negotiate their multiverse, twisting themselves painfully to reconcile the impossible and dying in the contortions. It?s a crisis Durrell went through himself, growing up a third-generation Anglo-Irish colonial in India.? ?I have an Indian heart and an English skin,? he said. ?I realized this very late, when I was twenty-one, twenty-two. It created a sort of psychological crisis. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I realized suddenly that I was not English really, I was not European. There was something going on underneath and I realized that it was the effect of India on my thinking.? (Quoting Lawrence Durrell) I think part of the content here (written in an article at the time of Durrell?s centenary) advances the view that not just his relatively brief childhood in India until the age of about 12, but his inheritance as a third generation Anglo-Irish in India, influenced the way that he looked at the world.Sumantra Nag _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grtaneja47 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 6 10:43:21 2015 From: grtaneja47 at hotmail.com (G. R. Taneja) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 00:13:21 +0530 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com>, <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Bruce: To your commnet that ?It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if correct)?were often big racists??? ??the only thing I can say is that the Brits in India were invariably racists, and nothing but racists and this fact did not emerge out of scholarship that emerged in 2002. This is a clich? of British Indian history books by both English and Indian historans. The anecdotal evidence of Indians and the English socialising in India are grand exception to the narrative. Let?s not forget the fact constantly underlined in British Indian history books (at all levels and throughout this period and since) that the English from 1857 onwards lived in constant terror of the native mobs attacking the English ?sections? of the towns. 1857 attack on the civilians and ruthless butchering of the English civilians during the early months of the confrontation was never ever forgotten for full hundred years. Also, I am not able to see how ?it?s quite remarkable that Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth.? I am sure I am missing the point you are making. Perhaps I shall be forgiven if I quote from my Durrell article that has been referred to several of my friends on the list: ?In Pied Piper of Lovers Durrell praised the hill servants, but he caricatured the ordinary natives in terms that would have amused the most pukka sahib??they were thieving groveling, ?sons and daughters of sows? with . . . ?raised black paws?, and they beat their wives.? The book, as McNiven remarks, was to be a memorial to the Kim aspect of Larry?s past (1998, 91). What I regret about this remark is not that it is not complimentary or even incorrect but that this is a clich? that one could have found in any Englishman writing about India during the Raj.? Gulshan Warmly, G R Taneja In-between Website: G. R. Taneja / Editor In-between: Essays & Studies in Literary Criticism Department of English, R. L. A. College, University of Delhi Anand Niketan Colony, Benito Juarez Marg, New Delhi-110 021, India From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:03:11 -0800 To: james.d.gifford at gmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if correct)?were often big racists. The historian Niall Ferguson (a Scot educated at Oxford [DPhil]) has written about this in Empire (2002). He describes how the Brits in the 19th century and early 20th, as a rule, believed in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race and its ?God-given right? to rule the world under the auspices of the ?British Empire.? Ferguson, however, sharply distinguishes between the British Civil Service in India (relatively few in number, perhaps a thousand) and the British missionary and mercantile class (the great majority of the colonials). The former (usually recruited from Oxbridge) he admires for its rigorous requirements of service (e.g., a knowledge of Hindi was necessary) and its respect for Indian culture. The latter he abhors for its attempts to convert, reform, and exploit ?the heathen.? Given this pervasive culture among the Anglo-Indians, it?s quite remarkable that Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth. I would add that Edward W. Said does not make any such distinction in his Orientalism (1978) and lumps Western attitudes under the latter class. Bruce On Dec 5, 2015, at 3:02 PM, James Gifford wrote:Thanks for pointing us back to this article, Sumantra. I don't know if it was discussed on the listserv before, but Charles Sligh and I noted at some point (perhaps in Louisville, maybe by phone) that one or the other of us must have looked absolutely awful at the centenary... We were in the same room he describes as "Of the sad sprinkle of attendees I am only one of two people under 60." In any case, his and your point about Durrell's Indian childhood and displacement to England is, I think, vital. If you haven't a copy of /Pied Piper of Lovers/, my introduction to it is available online through the MLA Commons and outlines some of this: http://dx.doi.org/10.17613/M6QS3Q https://commons.mla.org/deposits/download/mla:376/CONTENT/pied_sample_2008.pdf/ One of the peculiarities I point to is the expression of colonial privilege in the novel -- the expected descriptions of Indians as childish or animalistic occur. However, they're voiced by the adults while the child, Durrell's alter ego in the novel, retreats from them to seek out meaningful contact with Indians. That's not so much to "rescue" Durrell from the realities of his colonial position but rather to note the importance of the difference from, say, Kipling or comparisons to Scott or Kaye. There's a key scene in the novel in which Walsh returns to England and, on the ship, finds himself unable to engage with the English while also unable to talk with and Indian girl of his own age. That dual estrangement is, I'd argue, central to all his subsequent works. All best, James On 2015-12-05 12:14 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote: http://www.newsweek.com/remembering-lawrence-durrell-predictor-our-postmodern-world-65077 ?Durrell?s characters suffer as they try to negotiate their multiverse, twisting themselves painfully to reconcile the impossible and dying in the contortions. It?s a crisis Durrell went through himself, growing up a third-generation Anglo-Irish colonial in India.? ?I have an Indian heart and an English skin,? he said. ?I realized this very late, when I was twenty-one, twenty-two. It created a sort of psychological crisis. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I realized suddenly that I was not English really, I was not European. There was something going on underneath and I realized that it was the effect of India on my thinking.? (Quoting Lawrence Durrell) I think part of the content here (written in an article at the time of Durrell?s centenary) advances the view that not just his relatively brief childhood in India until the age of about 12, but his inheritance as a third generation Anglo-Irish in India, influenced the way that he looked at the world. Sumantra Nag _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 6 12:08:55 2015 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 12:08:55 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <009B7C2B-B6E1-42D1-8FC6-20F399C7559A@earthlink.net> G. R Taneja, In Empire (2002), Niall Ferguson is quite unsparing of his criticism of British racism in India during the period of the Raj. He also fully elaborates on the content of your second paragraph. Dane Kennedy in The Magic Mountains: Hill Stations and the British Raj (1996) makes similar statements about the isolation of Brits in India as a reflection of their racism. I don?t think these books are in the vanguard of a new awareness, and I don?t think the racial attitudes of the British in India have been kept a secret from the public. These have been recognized for some time?and deplored. I would also go back to Forster?s Passage to India (1924) and Paul Scott?s Raj Quartet (1965-1975) as (in part) fictional studies of British racism. Neither of which I would call clich?-ridden. Ferguson comments on these books and notes, ?It is no coincidence that the plots of the Raj?s best known novels?Forster?s A Passage to India and Scott?s The Jewel in the Crown?begin with an alleged sexual assault by an Indian man against an English woman? (p. 169). ?Inter-racial rape? is simply another aspect of British racial fears, indeed, of White racism in the main. Lest I fault the Brits exclusively, there are many notorious examples of this in the American South. William Faulkner writes about this fear extensively. We should also remember that xenophobia is not limited to Westerners or ?Orientalists,? as Edward Said would have it. As to Durrell himself, I haven?t read Pied Piper of Lover, so I can?t comment on the author?s motivations. But I do know how he later portrayed his remembrance of his Indian childhood, undoubtedly Kiplingesque and romanticized?nevertheless, neither would I call this cherished memory a bunch of clich?s. I would call it authentic and deeply felt. Bruce > On Dec 6, 2015, at 10:43 AM, G. R. Taneja wrote: > > > Bruce: > > To your commnet that > > ?It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if correct)?were often big racists??? > > ??the only thing I can say is that the Brits in India were invariably racists, and nothing but racists and this fact did not emerge out of scholarship that emerged in 2002. This is a clich? of British Indian history books by both English and Indian historans. The anecdotal evidence of Indians and the English socialising in India are grand exception to the narrative. Let?s not forget the fact constantly underlined in British Indian history books (at all levels and throughout this period and since) that the English from 1857 onwards lived in constant terror of the native mobs attacking the English ?sections? of the towns. 1857 attack on the civilians and ruthless butchering of the English civilians during the early months of the confrontation was never ever forgotten for full hundred years. > > Also, I am not able to see how ?it?s quite remarkable that Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth.? I am sure I am missing the point you are making. Perhaps I shall be forgiven if I quote from my Durrell article that has been referred to several of my friends on the list: > > ?In Pied Piper of Lovers Durrell praised the hill servants, but he caricatured the ordinary natives in terms that would have amused the most pukka sahib??they were thieving groveling, ?sons and daughters of sows? with . . . ?raised black paws?, and they beat their wives.? The book, as McNiven remarks, was to be a memorial to the Kim aspect of Larry?s past (1998, 91). What I regret about this remark is not that it is not complimentary or even incorrect but that this is a clich? that one could have found in any Englishman writing about India during the Raj.? > Gulshan > > > Warmly, > > G R Taneja > > In-between Website: inbetween eslc > > > G. R. Taneja / Editor > In-between: Essays & Studies in Literary Criticism > Department of English, R. L. A. College, University of Delhi > Anand Niketan Colony, Benito Juarez Marg, > New Delhi-110 021, India > > From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:03:11 -0800 > To: james.d.gifford at gmail.com; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 > > It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if correct)?were often big racists. The historian Niall Ferguson (a Scot educated at Oxford [DPhil]) has written about this in Empire (2002). He describes how the Brits in the 19th century and early 20th, as a rule, believed in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race and its ?God-given right? to rule the world under the auspices of the ?British Empire.? Ferguson, however, sharply distinguishes between the British Civil Service in India (relatively few in number, perhaps a thousand) and the British missionary and mercantile class (the great majority of the colonials). The former (usually recruited from Oxbridge) he admires for its rigorous requirements of service (e.g., a knowledge of Hindi was necessary) and its respect for Indian culture. The latter he abhors for its attempts to convert, reform, and exploit ?the heathen.? Given this pervasive culture among the Anglo-Indians, it?s quite remarkable that Lawrence Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth. I would add that Edward W. Said does not make any such distinction in his Orientalism (1978) and lumps Western attitudes under the latter class. > > Bruce > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2015, at 3:02 PM, James Gifford > wrote: > > Thanks for pointing us back to this article, Sumantra. I don't know if it was discussed on the listserv before, but Charles Sligh and I noted at some point (perhaps in Louisville, maybe by phone) that one or the other of us must have looked absolutely awful at the centenary... We were in the same room he describes as "Of the sad sprinkle of attendees I am only one of two people under 60." > > In any case, his and your point about Durrell's Indian childhood and displacement to England is, I think, vital. If you haven't a copy of /Pied Piper of Lovers/, my introduction to it is available online through the MLA Commons and outlines some of this: > > http://dx.doi.org/10.17613/M6QS3Q > > https://commons.mla.org/deposits/download/mla:376/CONTENT/pied_sample_2008.pdf/ > > One of the peculiarities I point to is the expression of colonial privilege in the novel -- the expected descriptions of Indians as childish or animalistic occur. However, they're voiced by the adults while the child, Durrell's alter ego in the novel, retreats from them to seek out meaningful contact with Indians. That's not so much to "rescue" Durrell from the realities of his colonial position but rather to note the importance of the difference from, say, Kipling or comparisons to Scott or Kaye. > > There's a key scene in the novel in which Walsh returns to England and, on the ship, finds himself unable to engage with the English while also unable to talk with and Indian girl of his own age. That dual estrangement is, I'd argue, central to all his subsequent works. > > All best, > James > > On 2015-12-05 12:14 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote: > http://www.newsweek.com/remembering-lawrence-durrell-predictor-our-postmodern-world-65077 > > ?Durrell?s characters suffer as they try to negotiate their multiverse, > twisting themselves painfully to reconcile the impossible and dying in > the contortions. It?s a crisis Durrell went through himself, growing up > a third-generation Anglo-Irish colonial in India.? > > ?I have an Indian heart and an English skin,? he said. ?I realized this > very late, when I was twenty-one, twenty-two. It created a sort of > psychological crisis. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I realized > suddenly that I was not English really, I was not European. There was > something going on underneath and I realized that it was the effect of > India on my thinking.? (Quoting Lawrence Durrell) > > I think part of the content here (written in an article at the time of > Durrell?s centenary) advances the view that not just his relatively > brief childhood in India until the age of about 12, but his inheritance > as a third generation Anglo-Irish in India, influenced the way that he > looked at the world. > > Sumantra Nag > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 19:58:39 2015 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:58:39 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Remembering Lawrence Durrell, Predictor of our Postmodern World_By Peter Pomerantsev 6/25/2012 In-Reply-To: References: <000001d12f34$f6c5d460$e4517d20$@gmail.com> <56636D18.2020008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <566503EF.4090906@gmail.com> Hello all, Thank-you Gulshan for these thoughtful & careful comments. The pervasive nature of the East India Company and its systematic divisions has become an annual ranting point for my wife while teaching her year long World History course... Your phrasing is too gentle. Am I correct in guessing that the "anecdotal evidence of Indians and the English socialising" refers to Durrell's father? In any case, to my thinking, two things call out. The first is something I raised in the introduction to /Pied Piper/. The racist caricatures in the novel invariably come from the adults, such as the "sons and daughters of sows" and "raised black paws" from Brenda who is herself a caricature of the belligerent Brit in the scene (I can't help but see her as ridiculous and callous in the scene, though obviously contemporary readers may have seen her as a role model) -- immediately following this, Walsh leaves the family home to meet with "The small native boy" who is clearly brighter than him and who introduces him to secrets he would never learn from the British characters. This might be part of what Bruce is gesturing to: Durrell's insistence on India's importance (whether genuine as a part of his youth or irreverently later in life, such as in his interviews). I was suspicious in that scene over whether Durrell was offering this up as a serious vision of India (racist, and as you note, a clich?) or if he was mocking that clich? by juxtaposing it against the more na?ve meeting between children that follows. Children matter in Durrell. An open critique wouldn't do well for the novel's publication or intended readership, but the juxtaposition might give such a critique an open door. The young boy's naturalness and argument against "shame" contrast against the English reserve Brenda reasserts in the close of the chapter, and the "no shame" phrasing tied to the boy (paired with the recognition of mortality he learns from Indians and learns to represses from the English) comes back later as Walsh's most important lesson in the novel. I might be reading too much into that, however. An old habit in Canadian news media is to tell a story through juxtaposition rather than statement, such as never accusing a politician of lying while instead setting two things side by side that reveal it. I'm inclined to see that kind of thing in Durrell quite a lot, especially for political matters (commentary by juxtaposition) but in some respects also for race, racism, and representation. I know many other readers disagree with me for equally sound reasons (as I suspect you do, which I respect). The second thing is Durrell's Indian identity for his alter-ego in the novel, Walsh. Durrell, of course, wasn't Indian. Even calling himself Anglo-Indian was a telling stretch, but like his insistence on being Irish, I wonder if the matter really has little to do with any "real" DNA-basis or legal status for nationality. Rather than caring about how much Durrell was shaped by *real* India, is the point that he clung to India as a way of marking himself as *not* English? Does Irishness function in the same way? I think that's how Walsh's bi-racial status works in /Pied Piper/, marking out his alienation from England and his refutation of what he would later term the English Death. That is, India as metonym. As for Durrell's understanding of India, in a late interview with Lyn Goldman, he used the fairly "pat" (for him) gesture to spiritual vitality in India, much like some Julia Roberts film or more recently the equally problematic Marigold phenomenon... Lyn's response was probably the right one: "Surely you're joking" and then she laughed at him. He laughed along. I mean, the comments in interviews about India are much like your sense of how "Pomerantsev?s Newsweek write-up does everything that journalism is expected to" -- it's a glib gesture to stereotypes that might rack up a few sales from readers seeking a guru, which is what an interview is expected to do... The books themselves, in contrast, keep putting readers back on their own resources and confound the easy gestures that earn media gurus their millions. That's all to say, I don't know how much Durrell was clinging to his Indian childhood out of a sense of belonging to the place and the trauma of leaving it (he says as much several times, but he also lies a lot). Perhaps it's also or instead a way of commenting on his alienation from Britain, and just maybe critiquing British attitudes to India. It's worth noting that when Durrell returned to India as a topic much later in life in "From the Elephant's Back," he again retreats from the adults to consider himself and an elephant, both as children. There are still the gestures to grab the seekers into buying a copy, but I don't see the retreat to child subjects as part & parcel of that. I can't help but see it as a piece grown out from Orwell's "Shooting an Elephant" (which I've often understood to show the elephant as the British Empire, destroyed by it own) -- rather than the conflict, Durrell presents a partnership between children who may obviously be unequal in privilege and opportunity but yet look for something outside of the relations they inherit. Our readings of the book have disagreed on this, so I'm curious about your thoughts, especially since I respect your article very much. All best, James On 2015-12-06 10:43 AM, G. R. Taneja wrote: > > Bruce: > > To your commnet that > > ?It?s probably hard for us in the 21st century to appreciate, but the > Brits in India?the ?Anglo-Indians? or the ?Anglo-Irish? (if > correct)?were _often_ big racists??? > > ??the only thing I can say is that the Brits in Indiawere invariably > racists, and nothing but racists and this fact did not emerge out of > scholarship that emerged in 2002.This is a clich? of British Indian > history books by both English and Indian historans. The anecdotal > evidence of Indians and the English socialising in India are grand > exception to the narrative. Let?s not forget the fact constantly > underlined in British Indian history books (at all levels and throughout > this period and since) that the English from 1857 onwards lived in > constant terror of the native mobs attacking the English ?sections? of > the towns. 1857 attack on the civilians and ruthless butchering of the > English civilians during the early months of the confrontation was never > ever forgotten for full hundred years. > > Also, I am not able to see how ?it?s quite remarkable that Lawrence > Durrell identified with and honored the land of his birth.? I am sure I > am missing the point you are making.Perhaps I shall be forgiven if I > quote from my Durrell article that has been referred to several of my > friends on the list: > > ?In /Pied Piper of Lovers/ Durrell praised the hill servants, but he > caricatured the ordinary natives in terms that would have amused the > most pukka sahib??they were thieving groveling, ?sons and daughters of > sows? with . . . ?raised black paws?, and they beat their wives.? The > book, as McNiven remarks, was to be a memorial to the Kim aspect of > Larry?s past (1998, 91). What I regret about this remark is not that it > is not complimentary or even incorrect but that this is a clich? that > one could have found in any Englishman writing about India during the Raj.? > > Gulshan > > > > Warmly, > > G R Taneja > > In-between Website: > > G. R. Taneja / Editor > In-between: Essays & Studies in Literary Criticism > Department of English, R. L. A. College, University of Delhi > Anand Niketan Colony, Benito Juarez Marg, > New Delhi-110 021, India