[ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 3
Sumantra Nag
sumantranag at gmail.com
Wed Jun 3 23:42:38 PDT 2015
Can needless AND lengthy trails (as appearing below Message 1 from RP)
please be removed in future? Why has this presence of trails become a
regular feature?
Sumantra Nag
Sent from my Asus Zenfone
On 4 Jun 2015 00:35, <ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca> wrote:
> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to
> ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 2 (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org)
> 2. Thais of Alexandria (Sumantra Nag)
> 3. Oscar Wilde's Salome (Bruce Redwine)
> 4. Re: Oscar Wilde's Salome (Odos)
> 5. Re: Oscar Wilde's Salome (Bruce Redwine)
> 6. Re: Oscar Wilde's Salome (Odos)
> 7. Re: Thais of Alexandria (Bruce Redwine)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2015 07:39:43 +0000
> From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 2
> Message-ID: <W170912537237911433317183 at atl4wm08pod3>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I don'y think it's accurate to say that Wilde and Beardsley "collaborated"
> on the play Salome - B was certainly involved, as a potential translator
> from W's French original, but he didn't actually collaborate. The
> illustrations for the book edition are, of course, another matter.
> RP
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2015 03:01 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 2
>
> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to ilds at lists.uvic.caTo subscribe or
> unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ildsor, via email, send a message
> with subject or body 'help' to ilds-request at lists.uvic.caYou can reach
> the person managing the list at ilds-owner at lists.uvic.caWhen replying,
> please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of
> ILDS digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: Note re: the name ?Aubrey? (Bruce
> Redwine) 2. Re: ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 1 (mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org)
> 3. Odious masterpieces (Bruce Redwine) 4. Odious masterpieces (Bruce
> Redwine) 5. Re: Odious masterpieces (William Apt) 6. Re: Odious
> masterpieces (Bruce
> Redwine)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message:
> 1Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 11:56:12 -0700From: Bruce Redwine To:
> ilds at lists.uvic.caCc: Ken Gammage , James Gifford , Bruce
> Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Note re: the name ?Aubrey?Message-ID:
> <37966146-351!
> 6-4F5E-B945-05E7E1EEF587 at earthlink.net>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="utf-8"Ken, now Robin Sutcliffe as Buck Mulligan is indeed a
> fascinating idea. Of course, that makes Aubrey Blanford a Stephen Dedalus,
> which, as you point out, doesn?t really work. James notes the
> correspondences between Joyce?s Portrait and Durrell?s Quartet, so LD
> surely felt the pull of the Joycean hero. I go back, however, to your idea
> of effeminacy, with a link to homosexuality, which has a way of creeping
> into Durrell?s work in unexpected places. Aubrey Blanford and Aubrey
> Beardsley (1872-1898) have similar names, initials, artistic interests, and
> dubious sexuality. Why do characters such as Melissa and Blanford have to
> be ?wounded in their sex?? Wilde and Beardsley collaborated on the play
> Salome, produced a book (1894), with Beardsley?s illustrations. Those
> drawings are full of nude androgynous figures; the cover shows a stylized
> Salome admiring the Baptist?s (?Iokanaan?s?) severed head. It re!
> calls Freud?s castration complex and what happens to Piers and his
> missin! g head in the Quintet. Beardsley would have made a fine illustrator
> for the Quintet.Bruce> On May 31, 2015, at 10:24 PM, Kennedy Gammage
> wrote:> > Thank you James and Bruce. I guess my take-away is, if Durrell
> was consciously saddling his character with a name known to be a byword for
> effeminacy, it serves to further weaken the Alpha Male primacy of Blanford
> the Novelist: would-be alter ego/ delusional creator of other characters
> etc. It may help us make allowances for his egotism, for this is an
> at-times deeply insecure person who has truly been ?wounded in his sex.?
> Aubrey is no Stephen Dedalus - he will in no sense grow up to write the
> Avignon Quintet, though that would have saved Durrell quite a bit of work.
> Blanford?s friend and foil Sutcliffe has a bit of Buck Mulligan in him.> >
> Cheers - Ken > > > On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 8:53 PM, James Gifford > wrote:>
> Hi Bruce & Ken,> > Since I technically am a "Don Gifford," I feel like I
> need to respond to this one (I devili!
> shly enjoy pointing out that my father is Don Gifford when I'm at the
> Modernist Studies Association conferences, just not /that/ Don).> > Might I
> suggest the MVP Ulysses?> >
> http://web.uvic.ca/~mvp1922/portfolio/ulysses-shakespeare-co-1922-1st-edn/
> > > Apart from the text, we have a whole series of videos including ILDS
> members James Clawson, Alan Warren Friedman, and Michael Stevens.> >
> Charles could indeed elaborate, but perhaps we'll get Clawson to chime in
> as well -- he was in the NEH Ulysses seminar in Dublin just after the
> centenary conference in London.> > Durrell could very well be thinking of
> Joyce, and his CalTech lectures included a detailed consideration of
> Ulysses (a *very* Durrellian version of Joyce, albeit). As for Joyce
> thinking of Wilde, he did have Dorian Gray in his library in Trieste and
> the Italian translation.> > On 2015-05-31 3:47 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:> 1.
> How is Aubrey Blanford effeminate in the Joycean sense of an Aubrey>
> Beardsley and/or Oscar !
> Wilde?> > I don't suspect he is, and I doubt Durrell would have been
> reading Don Gifford, though who knows. It wasn't in his library for
> Carbondale nor Paris X.> > 2. Why does Blanford refer to /Ulysses/ as
> ?Joyce?s masterpiece?> /(Sebastian/ 126) and later as ?that odious book?
> (131)? Simply irony?> > "Odious" might be an allusion, but the word has
> been applied to Ulysses so many times, especially around the trials, we'd
> probably need to consult the Joyce scholars to sort out what voice came
> first and if it would be pertinent here.> > 3. Is Durrell rewriting or
> taking-on the Joycean novel (a worthy> opponent in literary prizefighting),
> and, if so, is there a close> connection between the author and his alter
> ego, Aubrey Blanford? (?So> D. begat Blanford.?)> > To use a Joycean word,
> "Yes." There is, of course, a close connection between Joyce and Stephen,
> and I think Durrell (like Miller) saw Joyce as one of the Bloomian strong
> poets to be redefined through a stronger misprision. I don't usually go for
> Bloom, but in this situation I think he a!
> pplies remarkably well.> > I'm reminded that the Quartet ends with (or
> almost ends with) the same words that open /A Portrait of the Artist/, much
> as Justine (revised) ends with the same final words as Pound's Canto I.
> Durrell was keenly aware of this modernist forebears and their influence,
> to be carried or corrupted. More often than not, I think he was conducting
> that corrupting misprision.> > All best,> James> >
> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list>
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >
> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list>
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds-------------- next part
> --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL:
> ------------------------------Message: 2Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 05:48:03
> +0000From: mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.orgTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re:
> [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 1Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
> char!
> set="us-ascii"Why cannot a book be both a "masterpiece" (whatever that
> is) and "odious" (whatever that is)? Try "Last Exit to Brroklyn"? Sade?
> "Women, Beware Women" (and a red herring thence to Livia)?Richard
> PineDurrell Library of Corfu -----Original Message-----From:
> ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]Sent:
> Monday, June 1, 2015 03:00 PMTo: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: ILDS Digest,
> Vol 98, Issue 1Send ILDS mailing list submissions to
> ilds at lists.uvic.caTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ildsor, via email, send
> a message with subject or body 'help' to ilds-request at lists.uvic.caYou
> can reach the person managing the list at ilds-owner at lists.uvic.caWhen
> replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re:
> Contents of ILDS digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: Note re: the name
> ?Aubrey? (Bruce Redwine) 2. Re: Note re: the name ?Aubrey? (James Gifford)
> 3. Re: Note re: the name ?Aubrey? (Kennedy
> Gammage)------------------------------------------------!
> ----------------------Message: 1Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 15:47:07
> -0700From: Bruce Redwine To: Durrell list Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re:
> [ilds] Note re: the name ?Aubrey?Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="utf-8"A further note on Ken?s astute observation. Seems to me this
> raises a few questions re Lawrence Durrell, James Joyce, and Aubrey Blan!
> ford. Here?s the quote from Ulysses: ?Young shouts of moneyed voices in
> Clive Kempthrope?s rooms. Palefaces: they hold their ribs with laughter,
> one clasping another, O, I shall expire! Break the news to her gently,
> Aubrey!? (Telemachus; Modern Library, 1992, p. 7). This is presumably
> Stephen Dedalus?s stream of consciousness dealing with England
> (?Palefaces?). I also hear allusions to British aestheticism of the late
> 19th century, namely, Oscar Wilde (?O, I shall expire! Break the news to
> her gently, Aubrey!?), a homosexual, and Aubrey Beardsley, of unknown
> sexuality. Charles Sligh can probably elaborate. So, the question!
> s:1. How is Aubrey Blanford effeminate in the Joycean sense of an Aubrey
> Beardsley and/or Oscar Wilde?2. Why does Blanford refer to Ulysses as
> ?Joyce?s masterpiece? (Sebastian 126) and later as ?that odious book?
> (131)? Simply irony?3. Is Durrell rewriting or taking-on the Joycean novel
> (a worthy opponent in literary prizefighting), and, if so, is there a !
> close connection between the author and his alter ego, Aubrey Blanford?
> (?So D. begat Blanford.?)Bruce> On May 31, 2015, at 3:45 AM, Bruce Redwine
> wrote:> > In the Quintet, there are a couple of references to Aubrey
> Blanford in a Joycean context, when talking about Ulysses. Durrell knew the
> great novel. So your observation has merit.> > Bruce> > > > Sent from my
> iPhone> >> On May 30, 2015, at 5:21 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:>> >> This
> has zero applicability to Jack Aubrey, the hero of Patrick O?Brian?s sea
> stories ? but it may apply to Aubrey Blanford:>> >> From Don Gifford?s
> Ulysses Annotated, p. 17:>> >> ?1.167 (7:24). Aubrey ? A name regarded as
> effeminate and frequently used to express t!
> he sort of scorn the context applies.? >> >> Of course, these particular
> notes are circa 1904 Ireland ? and Blanford?s earliest incarnation in the
> AQ2 is 1930s England?>> >> ?But would it be fair to say that Durrell may
> have had this in mind?>> >> Cheers - Ken>> >>
> _______________________________________________-------------- next part
> --------------An HTM! L attachment was scrubbed...URL:
> ------------------------------Message: 2Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 20:53:55
> -0700From: James Gifford To: ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] Note
> re: the name ?Aubrey?Message-ID: <556BD753.1050308 at gmail.com>Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowedHi Bruce & Ken,Since I
> technically am a "Don Gifford," I feel like I need to respond to this one
> (I devilishly enjoy pointing out that my father is Don Gifford when I'm at
> the Modernist Studies Association conferences, just not /that/ Don).Might I
> suggest the MVP Ulysses?
> http://web.uvic.ca/~mvp1922/portfolio/ulysses-shakespeare!
> -co-1922-1st-edn/Apart from the text, we have a whole series of videos
> including ILDS members James Clawson, Alan Warren Friedman, and Michael
> Stevens.Charles could indeed elaborate, but perhaps we'll get Clawson to
> chime in as well -- he was in the NEH Ulysses seminar in Dublin just after
> the centenary conference in London.Durrell could very well be thinkin! g of
> Joyce, and his CalTech lectures included a detailed consideration of
> Ulysses (a *very* Durrellian version of Joyce, albeit). As for Joyce
> thinking of Wilde, he did have Dorian Gray in his library in Trieste and
> the Italian translation.On 2015-05-31 3:47 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:> 1. How
> is Aubrey Blanford effeminate in the Joycean sense of an Aubrey> Beardsley
> and/or Oscar Wilde?I don't suspect he is, and I doubt Durrell would have
> been reading Don Gifford, though who knows. It wasn't in his library for
> Carbondale nor Paris X.> 2. Why does Blanford refer to /Ulysses/ as
> ?Joyce?s masterpiece?> /(Sebastian/ 126) and later as ?that odious book?
> (131)? Simply irony?"Odious" might be an al!
> lusion, but the word has been applied to Ulysses so many times,
> especially around the trials, we'd probably need to consult the Joyce
> scholars to sort out what voice came first and if it would be pertinent
> here.> 3. Is Durrell rewriting or taking-on the Joycean novel (a worthy>
> opponent in literary prizefighting), and, if so, is there a close>
> connection betwe! en the author and his alter ego, Aubrey Blanford? (?So>
> D. begat Blanford.?)To use a Joycean word, "Yes." There is, of course, a
> close connection between Joyce and Stephen, and I think Durrell (like
> Miller) saw Joyce as one of the Bloomian strong poets to be redefined
> through a stronger misprision. I don't usually go for Bloom, but in this
> situation I think he applies remarkably well.I'm reminded that the Quartet
> ends with (or almost ends with) the same words that open /A Portrait of the
> Artist/, much as Justine (revised) ends with the same final words as
> Pound's Canto I. Durrell was keenly aware of this modernist fo!
> rebears and their influence, to be carried or corrupted. More often than
> not, I think he was conducting that corrupting misprision.All
> best,James------------------------------Message: 3Date: Sun, 31 May 2015
> 22:24:30 -0700From: Kennedy Gammage To: James Gifford ,
> ilds at lists.uvic.caSubject: Re: [ilds] Note re: the name
> ?Aubrey?Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain! ; charset="utf-8"Thank you
> James and Bruce. I guess my take-away is, if Durrell wasconsciously
> saddling his character with a name known to be a byword foreffeminacy, it
> serves to further weaken the Alpha Male primacy of Blanfordthe Novelist:
> would-be alter ego/ delusional creator of other charactersetc. It may help
> us make allowances for his egotism, for this is anat-times deeply insecure
> person who has truly been ?wounded in his sex.?Aubrey is no Stephen Dedalus
> - he will in no sense grow up to write theAvignon Quintet, though that
> would have saved Durrell quite a bit of work.Blanford?s friend and foil
> Sutcliffe has a bit of Buck Mulligan in him.Cheers - KenOn Sun, May 31,
> 2015 at 8:!
> 53 PM, James Gifford wrote:> Hi Bruce & Ken,>> Since I technically am a
> "Don Gifford," I feel like I need to respond to> this one (I devilishly
> enjoy pointing out that my father is Don Gifford> when I'm at the Modernist
> Studies Association conferences, just not /that/> Don).>> Might I suggest
> the MVP Ulysses?>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mvp1922/portfolio/ulysses-shakesp!
> eare-co-1922-1st-edn/>> Apart from the text, we have a whole series of
> videos including ILDS> members James Clawson, Alan Warren Friedman, and
> Michael Stevens.>> Charles could indeed elaborate, but perhaps we'll get
> Clawson to chime in> as well -- he was in the NEH Ulysses seminar in Dublin
> just after the> centenary conference in London.>> Durrell could very well
> be thinking of Joyce, and his CalTech lectures> included a detailed
> consideration of Ulysses (a *very* Durrellian version> of Joyce, albeit).
> As for Joyce thinking of Wilde, he did have Dorian Gray> in his library in
> Trieste and the Italian translation.>!
> > On 2015-05-31 3:47 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:>>> 1. How is Aubrey
> Blanford effeminate in the Joycean sense of an Aubrey>> Beardsley and/or
> Oscar Wilde?>>>> I don't suspect he is, and I doubt Durrell would have been
> reading Don> Gifford, though who knows. It wasn't in his library for
> Carbondale nor> Paris X.>> 2. Why does Blanford refer to /Ulysses/ as
> ?Joyce?s maste! rpiece?>> /(Sebastian/ 126) and later as ?that odious book?
> (131)? Simply irony?>>>> "Odious" might be an allusion, but the word has
> been applied to Ulysses so> many times, especially around the trials, we'd
> probably need to consult the> Joyce scholars to sort out what voice came
> first and if it would be> pertinent here.>> 3. Is Durrell rewriting or
> taking-on the Joycean novel (a worthy>> opponent in literary
> prizefighting), and, if so, is there a close>> connection between the
> author and his alter ego, Aubrey Blanford? (?So>> D. begat Blanford.?)>>>>
> To use a Joycean word, "Yes." There is, of course, a close connection>
> between Joyce and Stephen, and I think Durrell (like Miller)!
> saw Joyce as> one of the Bloomian strong poets to be redefined through a
> stronger> misprision. I don't usually go for Bloom, but in this situation I
> think he> applies remarkably well.>> I'm reminded that the Quartet ends
> with (or almost ends with) the same> words that open /A Portrait of the
> Artist/, much as Justine (revised) ends> with the same final words as
> Pound'! s Canto I. Durrell was keenly aware of> this modernist forebears
> and their influence, to be carried or corrupted.> More often than not, I
> think he was conducting that corrupting misprision.>> All best,> James>>
> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list>
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>--------------
> next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL:
> ------------------------------Subject: Digest
> Footer_______________________________________________ILDS mailing listILDS
> @lists.uvic.cahttps://
> lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds------------------!
> ------------End of ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue
> 1***********************************-------------- next part
> --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL:
> ------------------------------Message: 3Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 08:29:12
> -0700From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.caCc: Bruce Redwine Subject:
> [ilds] Odious masterpiecesMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="utf-8"I guess this is all a matter of tastes, but my
> ?masterpieces? (?great works? of art) are not ?odious? (repulsive). The
> latter I would reserve for de Sade. A paradox. On the other hand, perhaps
> all this goes back to the idea of the ?Sublime? as propagated by Edmund
> Burke and the Romantics. The Sublime contains terror. Maybe that is what
> Blanford refers to. There?s a good deal of terror in the Quintet.Bruce> On
> Jun 1, 2015, at 10:48 PM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:> > Why
> cannot a book be both a "masterpiece" (whatever that is) and "odious"
> (whatever that is)? Try "Last Exit to Brroklyn"? Sade? "Women, Beware
> Women" (and a red herring thence to Livia)?> Richard !
> Pine> Durrell Library of Corfu > -----Original Message-----> From:
> ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]> Sent:
> Monday, June 1, 2015 03:00 PM> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca> Subject: ILDS
> Digest, Vol 98, Issue 1> -------------- next part --------------An HTML
> attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message:
> 4Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 08:31:13 -0700From: Bruce Redwine To:
> ilds at lists.uvic.caCc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] Odious
> masterpiecesMessage-ID: <3E307859-440F-4DA8-B692-BD74ED57A2BB at gmail.com>Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"I guess this is all a matter of tastes, but my
> ?masterpieces? (?great works? of art) are not ?odious? (repulsive). The
> latter I would reserve for de Sade. A paradox. On the other hand, perhaps
> all this goes back to the idea of the ?Sublime? as propagated by Edmund
> Burke and the Romantics. The Sublime contains terror. Maybe that is what
> Blanford refers to. There?s a good deal of terror in the Quintet.Bruc!
> e> On Jun 1, 2015, at 10:48 PM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:> >
> Why cannot a book be both a "masterpiece" (whatever that is) and "odious"
> (whatever that is)? Try "Last Exit to Brroklyn"? Sade? "Women, Beware
> Women" (and a red herring thence to Livia)?> Richard Pine> Durrell Library
> of Corfu > -----Original Message-----> From: ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca
> [mailto:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca ]> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 03:00
> PM> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 1>
> -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was
> scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message: 5Date: Tue, 2 Jun
> 2015 11:16:31 -0500From: William Apt To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" Subject:
> Re: [ilds] Odious masterpiecesMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="utf-8"Bruce:I've always been of the opinion that great works of
> art are "spooky".Perhaps the same concept as the Sublime containing terror?
> Sometimesliterature, paintings, and musical compositions are so remarkable
> (thinkJoyce's *The Dead; *Van Gogh's portrait of his and G!
> auguin's chairs;Dylan's *Like A Rolling Stone*) they fill one with a
> sense of dislocationand remove akin to a sense of terror or fright.BillyOn
> Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:> I guess this is all a
> matter of tastes, but my ?masterpieces? (?great> works? of art) are not
> ?odious? (repulsive). The latter I would reserve> for de Sade. A paradox.
> On the other hand, perhaps all this goes back to> the idea of the ?Sublime?
> as propagated by Edmund Burke and the Romantics.> The Sublime contains
> terror. Maybe that is what Blanford refers to.> There?s a good deal of
> terror in the *Quintet.*>>> Bruce>>>>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 10:48 PM,
> mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:>> Why cannot a book be both a
> "masterpiece" (whatever that is) and "odious"> (whatever that is)? Try
> "Last Exit to Brroklyn"? Sade? "Women, Beware> Women" (and a red herring
> thence to Livia)?> Richard Pine> Durrell Library of Corfu>> -----Original
> Message-----> *From:* ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mail!
> to:ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca> ]> *Sent:* Monday, June 1, 2015 03:00 PM>
> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca> *Subject:* ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 1>>>>
> _______________________________________________> ILDS mailing list>
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>>--
> WILLIAM APTAttorney at Law812 San Antonio St, Ste 401Austin TX
> 78701512/708-8300512/708-8011 FAX-------------- next part --------------An
> HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Message:
> 6Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 10:01:16 -0700From: Bruce Redwine To:
> ilds at lists.uvic.caCc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Odious
> masterpiecesMessage-ID: <
> 9E6FD275-B85B-4BF5-B956-80AEF511356F at earthlink.net>Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"Billy, well said. I agree ? and so would Joyce
> in Portrait. As Stephen says, ?Terror is the feeling which arrests the mind
> in the presence of whatsoever is grave and constant in human suffering and
> unites it with the secret cause.? In Durrell?s work, it?s that ?secret
> cause? that puzzles me. It?s ?spooky,? as you say.Bruce> !
> On Jun 2, 2015, at 9:16 AM, William Apt wrote:> > Bruce:> > I've always
> been of the opinion that great works of art are "spooky". Perhaps the same
> concept as the Sublime containing terror? Sometimes literature, paintings,
> and musical compositions are so remarkable (think Joyce's The Dead; Van
> Gogh's portrait of his and Gauguin's chairs; Dylan's Like A Rolling Stone)
> they fill one with a sense of dislocation and remove akin to a sense of
> terror or fright. > > Billy > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Bruce
> Redwine > wrote:> I guess this is all a matter of tastes, but my
> ?masterpieces? (?great works? of art) are not ?odious? (repulsive). The
> latter I would reserve for de Sade. A paradox. On the other hand, perhaps
> all this goes back to the idea of the ?Sublime? as propagated by Edmund
> Burke and the Romantics. The Sublime contains terror. Maybe that is what
> Blanford refers to. There?s a good deal of terror in the Quintet.> > >
> Bruce> > > > >> On Jun 1, 2015, at 10:48 PM, mai!
> l at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:>> >> Why cannot a book be both a
> "masterpiece" (whatever that is) and "odious" (whatever that is)? Try "Last
> Exit to Brroklyn"? Sade? "Women, Beware Women" (and a red herring thence to
> Livia)?>> Richard Pine>> Durrell Library of Corfu >> -----Original
> Message----->> From: ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:
> ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca ]>> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 03:00 PM>> To:
> ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 1>> >
> -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was
> scrubbed...URL: ------------------------------Subject: Digest
> Footer_______________________________________________ILDS mailing listILDS
> @lists.uvic.cahttps://
> lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds------------------------------End of
> ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 2***********************************
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150603/3fb80293/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 14:56:51 +0530
> From: Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Ken Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>, James Gifford
> <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>, Bruce Redwine
> <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, Denise Tart & David Green
> <dtart at bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: [ilds] Thais of Alexandria
> Message-ID:
> <
> CA+5jupQvaKjH81mGERiqa15H29Aw7z075Pc6EgkwhtwPBZQg3g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The story of Thais a famous and beautiful courtesan of Alexandria in 4th
> century Roman Egypt who repented and converted to Christianity has been
> celebrated in opera and in literature. She seems to be the kind of symbol
> through whom the mythology of Alexandria as a city would be historically
> constructed.
>
> Sumantra
>
> Sent from my Asus Zenfone
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150603/7fbce9b3/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 08:30:14 -0700
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [ilds] Oscar Wilde's Salome
> Message-ID: <ABD8195C-8118-4324-9830-30AB307646D3 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I stand corrected. Wilde originally wrote Salome in French (1892). The
> book, however, was a collaboration, as the title page indicates: Salome:
> A Tragedy in One Act: Translated from the French of Oscar Wilde by Lord
> Alfred Douglas: Pictured by Aubrey Beardsley (1894; New York: Dover,
> 1967). Douglas (?Bosie?) and Wilde were lovers. According to the blurb,
> ?Beardsley liked neither the play nor its author.?
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 2015, at 12:39 AM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:
> >
> > I don'y think it's accurate to say that Wilde and Beardsley
> "collaborated" on the play Salome - B was certainly involved, as a
> potential translator from W's French original, but he didn't actually
> collaborate. The illustrations for the book edition are, of course, another
> matter.
> > RP
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150603/f2c3408b/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 08:52:07 -0700
> From: Odos <odos.fanourios at gmail.com>
> To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Oscar Wilde's Salome
> Message-ID: <C6023E4C-A4BB-4968-808E-C3D50780F651 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> I'd need to go back to my notes for the reference, but I think the
> consensus now is that Wilde did the translation himself and simply had
> Bosie credited,
>
> Durrell's UNESCO lectures on Shakespeare draw fairly heavily on Wilde's
> "The Portrait of Mr. W.H."
>
> All best,
> James
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jun 3, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I stand corrected. Wilde originally wrote Salome in French (1892). The
> book, however, was a collaboration, as the title page indicates: Salome:
> A Tragedy in One Act: Translated from the French of Oscar Wilde by Lord
> Alfred Douglas: Pictured by Aubrey Beardsley (1894; New York: Dover,
> 1967). Douglas (?Bosie?) and Wilde were lovers. According to the blurb,
> ?Beardsley liked neither the play nor its author.?
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 3, 2015, at 12:39 AM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:
> >>
> >> I don'y think it's accurate to say that Wilde and Beardsley
> "collaborated" on the play Salome - B was certainly involved, as a
> potential translator from W's French original, but he didn't actually
> collaborate. The illustrations for the book edition are, of course, another
> matter.
> >> RP
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150603/297f7aac/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 09:31:29 -0700
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Oscar Wilde's Salome
> Message-ID: <BDF17EA6-5D8C-45D5-903B-D263D079DA27 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> James,
>
> Richard Ellmann in his Oscar Wilde (1988) agrees with you: ?The
> commission [Douglas?s translation] was a mistake. Wilde had not reckoned
> with his beloved?s inadequate French. When Douglas proudly brought the
> translation to him at the end of August, Wilde found it unacceptable? (p.
> 402). And ?Beardsley declared that it would be dishonest to put Douglas?s
> name on the title page when the translation had been so much altered by
> Wilde? (p. 404).
>
> Does Durrell credit Wilde in the UNESCO lectures? Wilde did not approve
> of plagiarism (unless he himself did it, naturally).
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Odos <odos.fanourios at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bruce,
> >
> > I'd need to go back to my notes for the reference, but I think the
> consensus now is that Wilde did the translation himself and simply had
> Bosie credited,
> >
> > Durrell's UNESCO lectures on Shakespeare draw fairly heavily on Wilde's
> "The Portrait of Mr. W.H."
> >
> > All best,
> > James
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Jun 3, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net
> <mailto:bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
> >
> >> I stand corrected. Wilde originally wrote Salome in French (1892).
> The book, however, was a collaboration, as the title page indicates:
> Salome: A Tragedy in One Act: Translated from the French of Oscar Wilde
> by Lord Alfred Douglas: Pictured by Aubrey Beardsley (1894; New York:
> Dover, 1967). Douglas (?Bosie?) and Wilde were lovers. According to the
> blurb, ?Beardsley liked neither the play nor its author.?
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jun 3, 2015, at 12:39 AM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org <mailto:
> mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I don'y think it's accurate to say that Wilde and Beardsley
> "collaborated" on the play Salome - B was certainly involved, as a
> potential translator from W's French original, but he didn't actually
> collaborate. The illustrations for the book edition are, of course, another
> matter.
> >>> RP
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds <
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150603/3fb66780/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 09:58:56 -0700
> From: Odos <odos.fanourios at gmail.com>
> To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Oscar Wilde's Salome
> Message-ID: <106EB244-B269-4315-B69E-05EBC0BD262B at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Thanks for filling in the reference. There's an article from around 2006
> that adds more detail. I'll try to hunt it down.
>
> Ellmann's biography is both outstanding and troubled. He was later in his
> career and relying on his research assistants a bit too much. Perhaps the
> most telling instance is the photograph of Wilde playing Salome, but it
> isn't Wilde and it isn't a male in drag. It's still an excellent
> biography, but with some warts.
>
> As for Wilde in Durrell's lectures, they're in Elephant's Back. Durrell
> does refer to Wilde explicitly for the theme (p. 164), though I suppose he
> treated lectures differently from fiction...
>
> Best,
> James
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jun 3, 2015, at 9:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > James,
> >
> > Richard Ellmann in his Oscar Wilde (1988) agrees with you: ?The
> commission [Douglas?s translation] was a mistake. Wilde had not reckoned
> with his beloved?s inadequate French. When Douglas proudly brought the
> translation to him at the end of August, Wilde found it unacceptable? (p.
> 402). And ?Beardsley declared that it would be dishonest to put Douglas?s
> name on the title page when the translation had been so much altered by
> Wilde? (p. 404).
> >
> > Does Durrell credit Wilde in the UNESCO lectures? Wilde did not approve
> of plagiarism (unless he himself did it, naturally).
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 3, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Odos <odos.fanourios at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Bruce,
> >>
> >> I'd need to go back to my notes for the reference, but I think the
> consensus now is that Wilde did the translation himself and simply had
> Bosie credited,
> >>
> >> Durrell's UNESCO lectures on Shakespeare draw fairly heavily on Wilde's
> "The Portrait of Mr. W.H."
> >>
> >> All best,
> >> James
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On Jun 3, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I stand corrected. Wilde originally wrote Salome in French (1892).
> The book, however, was a collaboration, as the title page indicates:
> Salome: A Tragedy in One Act: Translated from the French of Oscar Wilde
> by Lord Alfred Douglas: Pictured by Aubrey Beardsley (1894; New York:
> Dover, 1967). Douglas (?Bosie?) and Wilde were lovers. According to the
> blurb, ?Beardsley liked neither the play nor its author.?
> >>>
> >>> Bruce
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 3, 2015, at 12:39 AM, mail at durrelllibrarycorfu.org wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I don'y think it's accurate to say that Wilde and Beardsley
> "collaborated" on the play Salome - B was certainly involved, as a
> potential translator from W's French original, but he didn't actually
> collaborate. The illustrations for the book edition are, of course, another
> matter.
> >>>> RP
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ILDS mailing list
> >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150603/7d40e405/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 11:24:11 -0700
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>, Ken Gammage
> <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>, Bruce Redwine
> <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Thais of Alexandria
> Message-ID: <E9FAE0DF-6290-474A-96DD-B8341FED5C18 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Somewhere in City of Memory or elsewhere Michael Haag says (if I?m not
> wrong) that Justine is an embodiment of a whole line of women from Egyptian
> history. He probably has Cleopatra VII in mind, but the statement seems
> exaggerated. Dunno if Durrell read Anatole France?s Tha?s or Massenet?s
> opera based on the novel. The story (which I haven?t read) is about the
> journey from prostitution to sainthood. That theme may have appealed to
> LD, although Justine is no saint, nor any of the other women in the Quartet.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 2015, at 2:26 AM, Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The story of Thais a famous and beautiful courtesan of Alexandria in 4th
> century Roman Egypt who repented and converted to Christianity has been
> celebrated in opera and in literature. She seems to be the kind of symbol
> through whom the mythology of Alexandria as a city would be historically
> constructed.
> >
> > Sumantra
> >
> > Sent from my Asus Zenfone
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150603/7dad234b/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 98, Issue 3
> ***********************************
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20150604/fc1d6eb9/attachment.html>
More information about the ILDS
mailing list