[ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 86, Issue 16_

Marc Piel marc at marcpiel.fr
Mon Jun 23 06:27:28 PDT 2014


LD was reputed to have said that the AQ was better 
in French because his translator wrote better than 
he did....
Regards,
Marc
NB:
I came accross an interesting remark by Edna 
O'Brien in her Memoir to Country Girl
"......... Lawrence Durrell, whom I had met in 
Paris and to whom I had accidentlly said that I 
was unable to dance. A postcard, which followed 
that infelicitous meeting, said that if he had 
read anything of mine before our meeting, he would 
have looked for my single breast - in other words, 
he saw me as an Amazon."

Surely this could not come from a frustrated 
homosexual!

Le 23/06/14 08:43, Sumantra Nag a écrit :
> Marc and Merriane,
>
> Noted your references with interest:
>
> 1. Cairo: 1001 Years of the City Victorious
>
> 2. Nihal Tamraz, Nineteenth-Century Cairene Houses and Palaces (American
> University in Cairo Press, 1998) ? Which includes parallels to the ?tower?
> of Durrell?s villa.
>
> 3. Le Caire ? Alexandrie architectures europ?ennes (Institut Fran?ais
> d?Arch?ologie Orientale, 2001)
>
> 4. Cynthia Myntt, Paris Along the Nile: Architecture in Cairo from the Belle
> Epoque (American University I Cairo Press, 2003)
>
> 5. "Alexandrie l'Egyptienne" by Carlos Freire with photos by Robert Sol?
> published by STOCK in 1998
>
> These are interesting references which can expand the visual dimensions of
> Alexandria and Cairo in history. As  student of the architecture of Cairo
> and Alexandria, Merriane could have something to say about the highly visual
> creation of Alexandria by Lawrence Durrell.
>
> I don't read French, but have been an avid reader of Proust in the English
> translation.
>
> Incidentally the Alexandria Quartet - or perhaps just Justine - was
> described by one reviewer as a "French novel". Can't recall the source I'm
> afraid, but such observations tend to remain in the memory because they have
> a significant message. There is a distinction here between the flavour  (if
> one can use that term) of a French novel and an English novel. But surely
> there has been a cross-fertilization of influences between modern French and
> English writers . English novelists have been influenced by Proust, and
> Proust was influenced by Ruskin, and probably Dickens.
>
> But it would be interesting to note any opinions about the French 'flavour'
> of the novels of the AQ. The French and European influences through
> architecture and presence in Alexandria all come together in the city which
> has been recreated in a particular way by Durrell in his novels.
>
> Regards
>
> Sumantra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of
> ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 12:31 AM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 86, Issue 16
>
> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Re: A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.	FORSTER	by
>        Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010 (Merrianne)
>     2. Re: A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.	FORSTER	by
>        Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010 (Bruce Redwine)
>     3. Re: ILDS Digest, Vol 86, Issue 15_A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
>        (Sumantra Nag)
>     4. Re: A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of	E.M.	FORSTER	by
>        Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010 (Merrianne)
>     5. Re: A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.	FORSTER by
>        Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010 (Marc Piel)
>     6. Re: A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.	FORSTER	by
>        Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010 (Merrianne)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 14:26:13 -0500
> From: "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
> 	FORSTER	by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
> Message-ID: <003c01cf8d86$c7946900$56bd3b00$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I would suggest distinguishing between khedival and colonial when focusing
> on Alexandria and Cairo. What can be attributed to the modernization of
> Egypt by Muhammed Ali and Ismail during the 19th century versus ?colonial?
> rule of the British. I was fortunate to study the architecture of Cairo and
> Alexandria back in the early 70s, and this was the distinction that my
> professors made at the American University in Cairo. Durrell would have
> lived in both the khedival and colonial worlds of Egypt.
>
>   
>
> >From its founding by Alexander the Great, Alexandria was a city. It may
> have been annexed into empires as a province, but it always retained its
> identity and cosmopolitan nature.
>
>   
>
> Merrianne
>
>   
>
> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Lee Sternthal
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 1:45 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
> by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
>   
>
> Yeah, it's been a while since I read the post and my memory isn't what it
> used to be for details.  In any case, here's Haag's post.  I recall it being
> fascinating reading.
>
>   
>
> http://michaelhaag.blogspot.com/2013/09/lawrence-durrells-house-in-alexandri
> a.html
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Odos <odos.fanourios at gmail.com
> <mailto:odos.fanourios at gmail.com> > wrote:
>
> To the best of my knowledge, the Villa Ambron is still standing but slated
> for demolition -- Haag may have more current information.  Durrell wrote
> early drafts of the Quartet materials (Book of the Dead) there as well as
> preparing Prospero's Cell, though The Black Book was finished in 1937 only
> two years after his arrival on Corfu.  I sometimes wonder what it means to
> read Panic Spring and The Black Book as works written in an overlapping
> period -- the style varies enormously, but the concerns are remarkably
> similar in many respects, just a bit more difficult to notice.
>
>   
>
> As for colonial legacies, I think both perspective need to be acknowledged.
> Razing history doesn't erase its legacy, and Alexandria certainly has a
> unique "colonial" history given the age and origins of the city.  That said,
> we recently held OMG XVIII on unceded Coast Salish territories, and I try to
> be very mindful of the fact that the terrain I inhabit (and which my family
> has inhabited for 166 years now) is very much colonial, and the growth of
> the colony comes very much at the expense of indigenous sites, terrains,
> practices, and attempts at restoration and restitution.
>
>   
>
> Then again, the Vancouver I grew up in was cement, stone, and grey -- the
> Vancouver I live in today is steel and glass, and that's a reflection of
> another wave of immigration that some colonials resent...  As Haag hastens
> to point out, the colonial sites are also often the most cosmopolitan, and
> the injustice of history doesn't make it go away.
>
>   
>
> All best,
>
> James
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 13:35:59 -0700
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
> 	FORSTER	by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
> Message-ID: <F8EAEB14-9EB3-43E6-8FEE-4004CE5EF815 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Yes.  A useful distinction.  Thanks.  "Colonial" nowadays has highly
> pejorative connotations and generally applies to Western colonial empires
> (British, French, Belgian, German, Italian, and so on), as I understand the
> usage.  The Ambron family built the villa on rue Maamoun.  I believe the
> architecture is Venetian and could be attributed to or influenced by the
> Italian architect Alessandro Loria (architect of Hotel Cecil), who was
> Jewish.  But I'm guessing.  Since the Ambron family was Jewish, I'm also
> guessing that part of the problem of preserving the "colonial" architecture
> of Alexandria is its Jewish connections.  Nasser's policy in Egypt was to
> eradicate Egypt's great Jewish heritage.  Hence the diaspora of Egyptians
> Jews since 1952 (read Aciman's Out of Egypt).  Dr. Mohamed Awad, an
> architect and historian, is trying to save "old Alexandria," inclucing
> "colonial Alex," but that's not a popular endeavor in today's Egypt.
> Erasing material culture may not "erase history!
>   ," but it sure comes close.  So I'm thankful for Durrell's and Haag's
> Alexandrias ? which keep the cultural memory alive.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Merrianne <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I would suggest distinguishing between khedival and colonial when focusing
> on Alexandria and Cairo. What can be attributed to the modernization of
> Egypt by Muhammed Ali and Ismail during the 19thcentury versus ?colonial?
> rule of the British. I was fortunate to study the architecture of Cairo and
> Alexandria back in the early 70s, and this was the distinction that my
> professors made at the American University in Cairo. Durrell would have
> lived in both the khedival and colonial worlds of Egypt.
>>   
>>  From its founding by Alexander the Great, Alexandria was a city. It may
> have been annexed into empires as a province, but it always retained its
> identity and cosmopolitan nature.
>>   
>> Merrianne
>>   
>> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Lee
>> Sternthal
>> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 1:45 PM
>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
>> FORSTER by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>>   
>> Yeah, it's been a while since I read the post and my memory isn't what it
> used to be for details.  In any case, here's Haag's post.  I recall it being
> fascinating reading.
>>   
>> http://michaelhaag.blogspot.com/2013/09/lawrence-durrells-house-in-ale
>> xandria.html
>>
>> On Jun 21, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Odos <odos.fanourios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, the Villa Ambron is still standing but slated
> for demolition -- Haag may have more current information.  Durrell wrote
> early drafts of the Quartet materials (Book of the Dead) there as well as
> preparing Prospero's Cell, though The Black Book was finished in 1937 only
> two years after his arrival on Corfu.  I sometimes wonder what it means to
> read Panic Spring and The Black Book as works written in an overlapping
> period -- the style varies enormously, but the concerns are remarkably
> similar in many respects, just a bit more difficult to notice.
>>   
>> As for colonial legacies, I think both perspective need to be
> acknowledged.  Razing history doesn't erase its legacy, and Alexandria
> certainly has a unique "colonial" history given the age and origins of the
> city.  That said, we recently held OMG XVIII on unceded Coast Salish
> territories, and I try to be very mindful of the fact that the terrain I
> inhabit (and which my family has inhabited for 166 years now) is very much
> colonial, and the growth of the colony comes very much at the expense of
> indigenous sites, terrains, practices, and attempts at restoration and
> restitution.
>>   
>> Then again, the Vancouver I grew up in was cement, stone, and grey -- the
> Vancouver I live in today is steel and glass, and that's a reflection of
> another wave of immigration that some colonials resent...  As Haag hastens
> to point out, the colonial sites are also often the most cosmopolitan, and
> the injustice of history doesn't make it go away.
>>   
>> All best,
>> James
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 13:23:58 +0530
> From: "Sumantra Nag" <sumantranag at gmail.com>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Cc: james.d.gifford at gmail.com, bredwine1968 at earthlink.net,
> 	sunrisedriven at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 86, Issue 15_A New Life of E.M.
> 	FORSTER
> Message-ID: <003001cf8def$22d09970$6871cc50$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I possess a copy of Michael Haag's 'Alexandria: City of Memory' which I have
> read. I got Wendy Moffat's book recently  from a library in Delhi and read
> the chapter on Forster's years in Alexandria.
>
>   
>
> I found the account in Wendy Moffat's book quite detailed and evocative, for
> instance, while describing Cavafy in his dwellings. It was some time since I
> read Michael Haag's book, but I thought Moffat provided a very detailed
> account of Forster's life in Alexandria and his relationships in the city,
> not all of which is described quite so closely in Haag's book. That is
> probably natural, since Moffat's book deals only with Forster and
> particularly with his sexuality.
>
>   
>
> Sumantra
>
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 13:17:48 +0530
>
> From: "Sumantra Nag" <sumantranag at gmail.com>
>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>
> Subject: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
>
>                  by           Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
> Message-ID: <003b01cf8d25$1b6b7fd0$52427f70$@gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>   
>
> Sumantra Nag
>
>   
>
> It is likely that some members of ILDS will have read this book, but I am
> writing about it because of the expansive account it contains of E M
> Forster?s days in Alexandria, as  Red Cross volunteer during WW I. It
> appears that he had planned to stay for three months but ended up by
> spending more than three years in Alexandria.
>
>   
>
> -----------------------------
>
>   
>
> The impression about Alexandria when Forster arrived there, mirrors in many
> ways Durrell?s own first impression about a city which was unremarkable in
> its contemporary reality. When Forster arrived, its historical treasures and
> landmarks were either absent or feeble in their presence: the two obelisks
> (Cleopatra?s Needles) commissioned by Cleopatra were in New York and London
> respectively, Pompey?s pillar was unimpressive and nothing but an outgrowth
> of remained of the great lighthouse. The idea of Alexandria and its literary
> romance rose, for Forster, from his education in classics at Cambridge but
> the real Alexandria was a disappointment. A comparison is made with
> Forster?s ?A Passage to India? where the ?real India? does not reflect the
> grandeur reflected in the imagination.
>
>   
>
> There are many echoes with Durrell?s situation. Forster was in Alexandria
> during the first World War, when the British troops were present, and
> Durrell was there in a similar situation during World War II. The same
> ?profusion? of commercial sex seems to have existed at both times. Both
> Forster and Durrell were familiar with India too. In Forster?s time
> Alexandria is described as a clean city, but its labyrinth of streets off
> the main squares is regarded as a dark place suggestive of drugs and vice.
> There is an account of Forster?s visit to such a den which remained just
> that ? a visit.
>
>   
>
> Cavafy and his life in his dwellings in Alexandria are described in some
> detail, and one can get a sense of what Durrell was writing about. The
> mixture of literary production and homosexual pursuits. Forster?s meeting
> with Cavafy is described. But Durrell also wrote vigorously about
> heterosexual sex in Alexandria. Durrell?s Alexandria is recognized by now as
> an imaginative creation rather than a realistic depiction, but I gather
> that, he was, to some extent writing about the Alexandria corresponding to
> the fin de si?cle and to the time of Forster and Cavafy.
>
>   
>
> An Indian reading these accounts cannot escape from the ?colonial? positions
> of both Forster?s and Durrell?s lives in Alexandria, and by implication, in
> India as well. The voluminous English fiction in India today deals largely
> with a vivid contemporary world where the worlds of Forster and Durrell
> belong to a dim historical setting of interest mainly to academics.
>
> Mythology and history find a space in Indian writing today, but through a
> lens which is indigenous ? I would say ? and not colonial in influence.
>
>   
>
> The book ?A Great Unrecorded History? follows Forster?s own homosexual life.
>
>   
>
> The book [also] deals with the homosexuality rising within the ranks of the
> army in battle.
>
>   
>
> The chapter devoted to Forster?s years in Alexandria illustrates the
> Alexandrian world of Durrell in many ways.
>
>   
>
> Sumantra
>
>   
>
>   
>
> ------------------------------
>
>   
>
> Message: 3
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 01:16:16 -0700
>
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
>
>                  FORSTER by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
> Message-ID: <53A53F50.9090109 at gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>   
>
> Moffat's book has been savaged a bit in reviews, but it's really very fine
> work.  She very kindly jumped into a roundtable discussion on archives and
> Modernism I was co-organizing in 2009 just before the book came out -- the
> scope of her work on Forster, especially the archival recuperation, is
> impressive.  She's particularly sensitive to Forster's sexuality, and we had
> a good chat about Joseph Boone's work on Durrell in that respect...
>
>   
>
> Many readers have a vested interest in Forster, but Moffat's work is
> excellent in my opinion.
>
>   
>
> All best,
>
> James
>
>   
>
> Message: 5
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 09:18:16 -0400
>
> From: "Lynn-Marie & Brewster" <sunrisedriven at gmail.com>
>
> To: James Gifford <odos.fanourios at gmail.com>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
>
>                  FORSTER by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
> Message-ID:
>
>   
> <CAAOjwtbSJB0Ydv5sLwVq5BZhGqRzk_cBLdC9s2icnvPAW+KnwA at mail.gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>   
>
> Michael Haag's book Alexandria: City of Memory also discusses in detail
> Forster's and Durrell's residences in the city and its influence on their
> works, in addition to his valuable placement of them in the historical
> context of the times they lived there.
>
> Brewster
>
>   
>
> Message: 6
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 09:37:56 -0700
>
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>
> To: odos.fanourios at gmail.com, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
>
>                  FORSTER              by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York,
> 2010
>
> Message-ID: <F3E9ABC2-4167-41BC-8B41-5E0E9377A599 at earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>   
>
> Michael Haag has a very good section on E. M. Forster's relationship with
> Mohammed el Adl in Alexandria:  City of Memory.  A very sad affair,
> particularly from the standpoint of Forster's later treatment of Adl.  All
> of City of Memory is excellent (and should be read alongside Haag's book of
> photographs, Vintage Alexandria).  Haag's book recovers and restores
> Cavafy's Alexandria, which is indeed a "colonial" past, if that term can be
> misapplied to Alexandria.  In a sense, the city has always been colonial,
> something "other," from its very founding in 331 BC.
>
>   
>
> Bruce
>
>   
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 10:59:00 -0500
> From: "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of	E.M.
> 	FORSTER	by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
> Message-ID: <001d01cf8e32$e2ea0410$a8be0c30$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> This morning, I looked at the textbook we used for our urban development and
> history course taught by Janet Abu-Lughod at AUC. You can read a short bio
> for her on Wikipedia. Abu-Lughod?s book Cairo: 1001 Years of the City
> Victorious was a groundbreaking work on the subject of Cairo?s evolution
> (and indirectly that of Alexandria).
>
>   
>
> I don?t see any reference in her book to British in association with the
> word ?colonial.? She refers to the British in the context of ?occupation.?
>
>   
>
> In addition, she provides an excellent overview regarding the khedivial
> reform of Egypt, with its various French interludes, including the Parisian
> architectural fabric of Cairo and Alexandria. If anyone is interested in
> serious research regarding the architecture of the late 19th/early 20th
> century, I recommend three works that I purchased in Egypt, but probably
> obtainable via ILL:
>
>   
>
> Nihal Tamraz, Nineteenth-Century Cairene Houses and Palaces (American
> University in Cairo Press, 1998) ? Which includes parallels to the ?tower?
> of Durrell?s villa.
>
> Le Caire ? Alexandrie architectures europ?ennes (Institut Fran?ais
> d?Arch?ologie Orientale, 2001)
>
> Cynthia Myntt, Paris Along the Nile: Architecture in Cairo from the Belle
> Epoque (American University I Cairo Press, 2003)
>
>   
>
> I haven?t had a chance to check to see if Michael Haag cites these works,
> but I am sure he is familiar with them.
>
>   
>
> In addition, you might wish to investigate the website of the organization
> ASTENE (Association of the Study of the Ancient Near East and Egypt). I?ve
> been a member for years, and I believe their newsletters are available on
> their website.
>
>   
>
> In addition, the old Tour Egypt website includes some interesting info on
> classic architecture of Cairo and Alexandria that Durrell would have been
> familiar with (in addition to some info on Durrell, I believe). This link
> (to one of my favorite hotels in Egypt will get you to the website ?
> http://www.touregypt.net/egypt-info/magazine-mag09012000-mag8a.htm
>
>   
>
> Merrianne
>
>   
>
> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 3:36 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
> by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
>   
>
> Yes.  A useful distinction.  Thanks.  "Colonial" nowadays has highly
> pejorative connotations and generally applies to Western colonial empires
> (British, French, Belgian, German, Italian, and so on), as I understand the
> usage.  The Ambron family built the villa on rue Maamoun.  I believe the
> architecture is Venetian and could be attributed to or influenced by the
> Italian architect Alessandro Loria (architect of Hotel Cecil), who was
> Jewish.  But I'm guessing.  Since the Ambron family was Jewish, I'm also
> guessing that part of the problem of preserving the "colonial" architecture
> of Alexandria is its Jewish connections.  Nasser's policy in Egypt was to
> eradicate Egypt's great Jewish heritage.  Hence the diaspora of Egyptians
> Jews since 1952 (read Aciman's Out of Egypt).  Dr. Mohamed Awad, an
> architect and historian, is trying to save "old Alexandria," inclucing
> "colonial Alex," but that's not a popular endeavor in today's Egypt.
> Erasing material culture may not "erase history," but it sure comes close.
> So I'm thankful for Durrell's and Haag's Alexandrias ? which keep the
> cultural memory alive.
>
>   
>
> Bruce
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> On Jun 21, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Merrianne <timlot at comcast.net
> <mailto:timlot at comcast.net> > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I would suggest distinguishing between khedival and colonial when focusing
> on Alexandria and Cairo. What can be attributed to the modernization of
> Egypt by Muhammed Ali and Ismail during the 19thcentury versus ?colonial?
> rule of the British. I was fortunate to study the architecture of Cairo and
> Alexandria back in the early 70s, and this was the distinction that my
> professors made at the American University in Cairo. Durrell would have
> lived in both the khedival and colonial worlds of Egypt.
>
>   
>
> >From its founding by Alexander the Great, Alexandria was a city. It may
>> have
> been annexed into empires as a province, but it always retained its identity
> and cosmopolitan nature.
>
>   
>
> Merrianne
>
>   
>
> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Lee Sternthal
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 1:45 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
> by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
>   
>
> Yeah, it's been a while since I read the post and my memory isn't what it
> used to be for details.  In any case, here's Haag's post.  I recall it being
> fascinating reading.
>
>   
>
>   
> <http://michaelhaag.blogspot.com/2013/09/lawrence-durrells-house-in-alexandr
> ia.html>
> http://michaelhaag.blogspot.com/2013/09/lawrence-durrells-house-in-alexandri
> a.html
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Odos < <mailto:odos.fanourios at gmail.com>
> odos.fanourios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To the best of my knowledge, the Villa Ambron is still standing but slated
> for demolition -- Haag may have more current information.  Durrell wrote
> early drafts of the Quartet materials (Book of the Dead) there as well as
> preparing Prospero's Cell, though The Black Book was finished in 1937 only
> two years after his arrival on Corfu.  I sometimes wonder what it means to
> read Panic Spring and The Black Book as works written in an overlapping
> period -- the style varies enormously, but the concerns are remarkably
> similar in many respects, just a bit more difficult to notice.
>
>   
>
> As for colonial legacies, I think both perspective need to be acknowledged.
> Razing history doesn't erase its legacy, and Alexandria certainly has a
> unique "colonial" history given the age and origins of the city.  That said,
> we recently held OMG XVIII on unceded Coast Salish territories, and I try to
> be very mindful of the fact that the terrain I inhabit (and which my family
> has inhabited for 166 years now) is very much colonial, and the growth of
> the colony comes very much at the expense of indigenous sites, terrains,
> practices, and attempts at restoration and restitution.
>
>   
>
> Then again, the Vancouver I grew up in was cement, stone, and grey -- the
> Vancouver I live in today is steel and glass, and that's a reflection of
> another wave of immigration that some colonials resent...  As Haag hastens
> to point out, the colonial sites are also often the most cosmopolitan, and
> the injustice of history doesn't make it go away.
>
>   
>
> All best,
>
> James
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
>   <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> <https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>   
>
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> t-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:14:28 +0200
> From: Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
> 	FORSTER by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
> Message-ID: <53A70EF4.4000200 at marcpiel.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi Merrianne,
> There is another book on Alexandria that is very good:
> "Alexandrie l'Egyptienne" by Carlos Freire with photos by Robert Sol?
> published by STOCK in 1998, in which there are lots of photos of places
> mentioned in the AQ.
> Regards,
> Marc Piel
>
> Le 22/06/14 17:59, Merrianne a ?crit :
>> This morning, I looked at the textbook we used for our urban
>> development and history course taught by Janet Abu-Lughod at AUC. You
>> can read a short bio for her on Wikipedia. Abu-Lughod's book Cairo:
>> 1001 Years of the City Victorious was a groundbreaking work on the
>> subject of Cairo's evolution (and indirectly that of Alexandria).
>>
>> I don't see any reference in her book to British in association with
>> the word "colonial." She refers to the British in the context of
>> "occupation."
>>
>> In addition, she provides an excellent overview regarding the
>> khedivial reform of Egypt, with its various French interludes,
>> including the Parisian architectural fabric of Cairo and Alexandria.
>> If anyone is interested in serious research regarding the architecture
>> of the late 19^th /early 20^th century, I recommend three works that I
>> purchased in Egypt, but probably obtainable via ILL:
>>
>> Nihal Tamraz, /Nineteenth-Century Cairene Houses and Palaces/
>> (American University in Cairo Press, 1998) -- Which includes parallels
>> to the "tower" of Durrell's villa.
>>
>> /Le Caire -- Alexandrie architectures europ?ennes/(Institut Fran?ais
>> d'Arch?ologie Orientale, 2001)
>>
>> Cynthia Myntt, /Paris Along the Nile:
>> Architecture in Cairo from the Belle Epoque /(American University I
>> Cairo Press, 2003)
>>
>> I haven't had a chance to check to see if Michael Haag cites these
>> works, but I am sure he is familiar with them.
>>
>> In addition, you might wish to investigate the website of the
>> organization ASTENE (Association of the Study of the Ancient Near East
>> and Egypt). I've been a member for years, and I believe their
>> newsletters are available on their website.
>>
>> In addition, the old Tour Egypt website includes some interesting info
>> on classic architecture of Cairo and Alexandria that Durrell would
>> have been familiar with (in addition to some info on Durrell, I
>> believe). This link (to one of my favorite hotels in Egypt will get
>> you to the website ...
>> http://www.touregypt.net/egypt-info/magazine-mag09012000-mag8a.htm
>>
>> Merrianne
>>
>> *From:*ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]
>> *On Behalf Of *Bruce Redwine
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 21, 2014 3:36 PM
>> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> *Cc:* Bruce Redwine
>> *Subject:* Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded
>> History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New
>> York, 2010
>>
>> Yes.  A useful distinction.  Thanks.  "Colonial"
>> nowadays has highly pejorative connotations and generally applies to
>> Western colonial empires (British, French, Belgian, German, Italian,
>> and so on), as I understand the usage.  The Ambron family built the
>> villa on rue Maamoun.  I believe the architecture is Venetian and
>> could be attributed to or influenced by the Italian architect
>> Alessandro Loria (architect of Hotel Cecil), who was Jewish.  But I'm
>> guessing.
>>   Since the Ambron family was Jewish, I'm also guessing that part of
>> the problem of preserving the "colonial" architecture of Alexandria is
>> its Jewish connections.  Nasser's policy in Egypt was to eradicate
>> Egypt's great Jewish heritage.
>>   Hence the diaspora of Egyptians Jews since 1952 (read Aciman's /Out
>> of Egypt)./  Dr. Mohamed Awad, an architect and historian, is trying
>> to save "old Alexandria," inclucing "colonial Alex," but that's not a
>> popular endeavor in today's Egypt.  Erasing material culture may not
>> "erase history," but it sure comes close.  So I'm thankful for
>> Durrell's and Haag's Alexandrias --- which keep the cultural memory
>> alive.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On Jun 21, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Merrianne <timlot at comcast.net
>> <mailto:timlot at comcast.net>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>      I would suggest distinguishing between
>>      khedival and colonial when focusing on
>>      Alexandria and Cairo. What can be attributed
>>      to the modernization of Egypt by Muhammed
>>      Ali and Ismail during the 19^th century
>>      versus "colonial" rule of the British. I was
>>      fortunate to study the architecture of Cairo
>>      and Alexandria back in the early 70s, and
>>      this was the distinction that my professors
>>      made at the American University in Cairo.
>>      Durrell would have lived in both the
>>      khedival and colonial worlds of Egypt.
>>
>>      From its founding by Alexander the Great,
>>      Alexandria was a city. It may have been
>>      annexed into empires as a province, but it
>>      always retained its identity and
>>      cosmopolitan nature.
>>
>>      Merrianne
>>
>>      *From:*ILDS
>>      [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On
>>      Behalf Of*Lee Sternthal
>>      *Sent:*Saturday, June 21, 2014 1:45 PM
>>      *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>      <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>>      *Subject:*Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded
>>      History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER by Wendy
>>      Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>>
>>      Yeah, it's been a while since I read the
>>      post and my memory isn't what it used to be
>>      for details.  In any case, here's Haag's
>>      post.  I recall it being fascinating reading.
>>
>>      
>> http://michaelhaag.blogspot.com/2013/09/lawrence-durrells-house-in-ale
>> xandria.html
>>
>>
>>      On Jun 21, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Odos
>>      <odos.fanourios at gmail.com
>>      <mailto:odos.fanourios at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>          To the best of my knowledge, the Villa
>>          Ambron is still standing but slated for
>>          demolition -- Haag may have more current
>>          information.  Durrell wrote early drafts
>>          of the Quartet materials (Book of the
>>          Dead) there as well as
>>          preparing/Prospero's Cell/, though/The
>>          Black Book/ was finished in 1937 only
>>          two years after his arrival on Corfu.  I
>>          sometimes wonder what it means to
>>          read/Panic Spring/ and/The Black
>>          Book/ as works written in an overlapping
>>          period -- the style varies enormously,
>>          but the concerns are remarkably similar
>>          in many respects, just a bit more
>>          difficult to notice.
>>
>>          As for colonial legacies, I think both
>>          perspective need to be acknowledged.
>>           Razing history doesn't erase its
>>          legacy, and Alexandria certainly has a
>>          unique "colonial" history given the age
>>          and origins of the city.  That said, we
>>          recently held OMG XVIII on unceded Coast
>>          Salish territories, and I try to be very
>>          mindful of the fact that the terrain I
>>          inhabit (and which my family has
>>          inhabited for 166 years now) is very
>>          much colonial, and the growth of the
>>          colony comes very much at the expense of
>>          indigenous sites, terrains, practices,
>>          and attempts at restoration and restitution.
>>
>>          Then again, the Vancouver I grew up in
>>          was cement, stone, and grey -- the
>>          Vancouver I live in today is steel and
>>          glass, and that's a reflection of
>>          another wave of immigration that some
>>          colonials resent...  As Haag hastens to
>>          point out, the colonial sites are also
>>          often the most cosmopolitan, and the
>>          injustice of history doesn't make it go
>>          away.
>>
>>          All best,
>>
>>          James
>>
>>
>>          Sent from my iPad
>>
>>          _______________________________________________
>>          ILDS mailing list
>>          ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>          <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>          https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>      _______________________________________________
>>      ILDS mailing list
>>      ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>      https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20140622/ec3d47ad/attachmen
> t-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:55:35 -0500
> From: "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M.
> 	FORSTER	by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
> Message-ID: <002e01cf8e43$2c157330$84405990$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear Marc,
>
>   
>
> Thank you for the reference. I?ve already placed it in my Abe Books shopping
> cart.
>
>   
>
> As you like photographs, you are probably familiar with the French museums?
> site Joconde.    http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr
> Several months ago, I discovered the early 20th century black and white
> photographs by Carle Naudot of the Camargue, southern France, etc. that can
> be retrieved by using the search feature on this website, which is a
> consortium of numerous regional French museums. This being summer, it is fun
> to search on Arles, Avignon, etc. and pull up various works associated or
> depicting these places.
>
>   
>
> Best,
>
> Merrianne
>
>   
>
> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Marc Piel
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:14 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
> by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
>   
>
> Hi Merrianne,
> There is another book on Alexandria that is very good:
> "Alexandrie l'Egyptienne" by Carlos Freire with photos by Robert Sol?
> published by STOCK in 1998, in which there are lots of photos of places
> mentioned in the AQ.
> Regards,
> Marc Piel
>
> Le 22/06/14 17:59, Merrianne a ?crit :
>
> This morning, I looked at the textbook we used for our urban development and
> history course taught by Janet Abu-Lughod at AUC. You can read a short bio
> for her on Wikipedia. Abu-Lughod?s book Cairo: 1001 Years of the City
> Victorious was a groundbreaking work on the subject of Cairo?s evolution
> (and indirectly that of Alexandria).
>
>   
>
> I don?t see any reference in her book to British in association with the
> word ?colonial.? She refers to the British in the context of ?occupation.?
>
>   
>
> In addition, she provides an excellent overview regarding the khedivial
> reform of Egypt, with its various French interludes, including the Parisian
> architectural fabric of Cairo and Alexandria. If anyone is interested in
> serious research regarding the architecture of the late 19th/early 20th
> century, I recommend three works that I purchased in Egypt, but probably
> obtainable via ILL:
>
>   
>
> Nihal Tamraz, Nineteenth-Century Cairene Houses and Palaces (American
> University in Cairo Press, 1998) ? Which includes parallels to the ?tower?
> of Durrell?s villa.
>
> Le Caire ? Alexandrie architectures europ?ennes (Institut Fran?ais
> d?Arch?ologie Orientale, 2001)
>
> Cynthia Myntt, Paris Along the Nile: Architecture in Cairo from the Belle
> Epoque (American University I Cairo Press, 2003)
>
>   
>
> I haven?t had a chance to check to see if Michael Haag cites these works,
> but I am sure he is familiar with them.
>
>   
>
> In addition, you might wish to investigate the website of the organization
> ASTENE (Association of the Study of the Ancient Near East and Egypt). I?ve
> been a member for years, and I believe their newsletters are available on
> their website.
>
>   
>
> In addition, the old Tour Egypt website includes some interesting info on
> classic architecture of Cairo and Alexandria that Durrell would have been
> familiar with (in addition to some info on Durrell, I believe). This link
> (to one of my favorite hotels in Egypt will get you to the website ?
> http://www.touregypt.net/egypt-info/magazine-mag09012000-mag8a.htm
>
>   
>
> Merrianne
>
>   
>
> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 3:36 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Cc: Bruce Redwine
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
> by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
>   
>
> Yes.  A useful distinction.  Thanks.  "Colonial" nowadays has highly
> pejorative connotations and generally applies to Western colonial empires
> (British, French, Belgian, German, Italian, and so on), as I understand the
> usage.  The Ambron family built the villa on rue Maamoun.  I believe the
> architecture is Venetian and could be attributed to or influenced by the
> Italian architect Alessandro Loria (architect of Hotel Cecil), who was
> Jewish.  But I'm guessing.  Since the Ambron family was Jewish, I'm also
> guessing that part of the problem of preserving the "colonial" architecture
> of Alexandria is its Jewish connections.  Nasser's policy in Egypt was to
> eradicate Egypt's great Jewish heritage.  Hence the diaspora of Egyptians
> Jews since 1952 (read Aciman's Out of Egypt).  Dr. Mohamed Awad, an
> architect and historian, is trying to save "old Alexandria," inclucing
> "colonial Alex," but that's not a popular endeavor in today's Egypt.
> Erasing material culture may not "erase history," but it sure comes close.
> So I'm thankful for Durrell's and Haag's Alexandrias ? which keep the
> cultural memory alive.
>
>   
>
> Bruce
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> On Jun 21, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Merrianne <timlot at comcast.net
> <mailto:timlot at comcast.net> > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I would suggest distinguishing between khedival and colonial when focusing
> on Alexandria and Cairo. What can be attributed to the modernization of
> Egypt by Muhammed Ali and Ismail during the 19thcentury versus ?colonial?
> rule of the British. I was fortunate to study the architecture of Cairo and
> Alexandria back in the early 70s, and this was the distinction that my
> professors made at the American University in Cairo. Durrell would have
> lived in both the khedival and colonial worlds of Egypt.
>
>   
>
> >From its founding by Alexander the Great, Alexandria was a city. It may
>> have
> been annexed into empires as a province, but it always retained its identity
> and cosmopolitan nature.
>
>   
>
> Merrianne
>
>   
>
> From: ILDS [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Lee Sternthal
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 1:45 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] A Great Unrecorded History: A New Life of E.M. FORSTER
> by Wendy Moffat, PICADOR, New York, 2010
>
>   
>
> Yeah, it's been a while since I read the post and my memory isn't what it
> used to be for details.  In any case, here's Haag's post.  I recall it being
> fascinating reading.
>
>   
>
>   
> <http://michaelhaag.blogspot.com/2013/09/lawrence-durrells-house-in-alexandr
> ia.html>
> http://michaelhaag.blogspot.com/2013/09/lawrence-durrells-house-in-alexandri
> a.html
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Odos < <mailto:odos.fanourios at gmail.com>
> odos.fanourios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To the best of my knowledge, the Villa Ambron is still standing but slated
> for demolition -- Haag may have more current information.  Durrell wrote
> early drafts of the Quartet materials (Book of the Dead) there as well as
> preparing Prospero's Cell, though The Black Book was finished in 1937 only
> two years after his arrival on Corfu.  I sometimes wonder what it means to
> read Panic Spring and The Black Book as works written in an overlapping
> period -- the style varies enormously, but the concerns are remarkably
> similar in many respects, just a bit more difficult to notice.
>
>   
>
> As for colonial legacies, I think both perspective need to be acknowledged.
> Razing history doesn't erase its legacy, and Alexandria certainly has a
> unique "colonial" history given the age and origins of the city.  That said,
> we recently held OMG XVIII on unceded Coast Salish territories, and I try to
> be very mindful of the fact that the terrain I inhabit (and which my family
> has inhabited for 166 years now) is very much colonial, and the growth of
> the colony comes very much at the expense of indigenous sites, terrains,
> practices, and attempts at restoration and restitution.
>
>   
>
> Then again, the Vancouver I grew up in was cement, stone, and grey -- the
> Vancouver I live in today is steel and glass, and that's a reflection of
> another wave of immigration that some colonials resent...  As Haag hastens
> to point out, the colonial sites are also often the most cosmopolitan, and
> the injustice of history doesn't make it go away.
>
>   
>
> All best,
>
> James
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
>   <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> <https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>   
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
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>
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>
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