From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  9 01:56:01 2014
From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 01:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ilds] Fw: confirm 53210d557c4aec35d702881d0bc8c932837a959e
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1043.1402150653.21390.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
References: <mailman.1043.1402150653.21390.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
Message-ID: <1402304161.78953.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Has anyone else received a somewhat confusing message such as the following? I find it difficult to understand, and almost impossible to follow the instructions, if that is what they are,
Richard Pine

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 3:19 PM, "ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca> wrote:
 


Your membership in the mailing list ILDS has been disabled due to
excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
07-Jun-2014.? You will not get any more messages from this list until
you re-enable your membership.? You will receive 3 more reminders like
this before your membership in the list is deleted.

To re-enable your membership, you can simply respond to this message
(leaving the Subject: line intact), or visit the confirmation page at

? ? https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/confirm/ilds/53210d557c4aec35d702881d0bc8c932837a959e


You can also visit your membership page at

? ? https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/options/ilds/rpinecorfu%40yahoo.com

On your membership page, you can change various delivery options such
as your email address and whether you get digests or not.? As a
reminder, your membership password is

? ? waneewor

If you have any questions or problems, you can contact the list owner
at

? ? ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca
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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Mon Jun  9 03:53:52 2014
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 12:53:52 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Hello all
Message-ID: <53959240.8030701@marcpiel.fr>

There is a moving and interesting programme on 
French TV titled "La Parenth?se Inattendue" 
(unexpected parenthesis); It is the meeting of 3 
or 4 public persons (actors, artists, singers, 
journalists, writers...) that spend a weekend 
together in a country house, during which they 
talk about themselves, their career and their 
lives, how they got where they are and why. We, 
the spectators, already know their public lives 
and suddenly discover who they are privately. Thus 
we can see their two lives. Maybe we all have two 
lives without one of them being the opposite to 
the other, but never the less different!
Hope you find this interesting?
Marc Piel
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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Mon Jun  9 07:09:21 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 07:09:21 -0700
Subject: [ilds] "bounce" messages
Message-ID: <98E1695F-E5C8-4F25-8244-95B100EDA0A2@gmail.com>

Dear all,

A number of people received a "bounce" warning for the ILDS listserv.  You can ignore this -- it means the listserv mail server attempted to delivery messages to you but could not due to a lag on your own email server, a full inbox, or other such things.  This happened for perhaps a third of the list, so I suspect some large scale slow down over the weekend for servers.  I doubt it will recur.

As the administrator, let me know if you have another message.  It's an automatic function to close subscriptions when an account appears to be disabled, over capacity, or expired.

Cheers,
James

Sent from my iPad

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon Jun  9 07:51:33 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 07:51:33 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Hello all
In-Reply-To: <53959240.8030701@marcpiel.fr>
References: <53959240.8030701@marcpiel.fr>
Message-ID: <64BE15B8-B453-425E-AFE2-0213DEBF8E7C@earthlink.net>

Marc,

Yes.  Thanks.  This is of interest and, I would suggest, relevant to the topic of "Lawrence Durrell v. Lawrence G. Durrell."

Bruce


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2014, at 3:53 AM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
> 
> There is a moving and interesting programme on French TV titled "La Parenth?se Inattendue" (unexpected parenthesis); It is the meeting of 3 or 4 public persons (actors, artists, singers, journalists, writers...) that spend a weekend together in a country house, during which they talk about themselves, their career and their lives, how they got where they are and why. We, the spectators, already know their public lives and suddenly discover who they are privately. Thus we can see their two lives. Maybe we all have two lives without one of them being the opposite to the other, but never the less different!
> Hope you find this interesting?
> Marc Piel
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From delospeter at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 09:48:08 2014
From: delospeter at hotmail.com (PETER BALDWIN)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 17:48:08 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Hello all
In-Reply-To: <53959240.8030701@marcpiel.fr>
References: <53959240.8030701@marcpiel.fr>
Message-ID: <SNT406-EAS21B382E0E004E374900544C8290@phx.gbl>

Sounds like the setting for CVG. I think LD would be more guarded than ever in such a setting. The interviews on the Brit Lib are amongst the best int's of D - esp those with Muggeridge and Blishen because they knew D's writings in some depth. 

Peter Baldwin

Sent from my iPhone

> On 9 Jun 2014, at 15:03, "Marc Piel" <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
> 
> There is a moving and interesting programme on French TV titled "La Parenth?se Inattendue" (unexpected parenthesis); It is the meeting of 3 or 4 public persons (actors, artists, singers, journalists, writers...) that spend a weekend together in a country house, during which they talk about themselves, their career and their lives, how they got where they are and why. We, the spectators, already know their public lives and suddenly discover who they are privately. Thus we can see their two lives. Maybe we all have two lives without one of them being the opposite to the other, but never the less different!
> Hope you find this interesting?
> Marc Piel
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Tue Jun 10 00:13:52 2014
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:13:52 +1000
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
Message-ID: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>

"After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made, photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."

>From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)


Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited version of himself..

David



16 William Street
Marrickville NSW 2204
Australia
+61 2 9564 6165
0412 707 625
www.denisetart.com.au
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From bredwine1968 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 07:31:36 2014
From: bredwine1968 at gmail.com (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 07:31:36 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>
Message-ID: <AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>

David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor, Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books.  Probably for reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of Bitter Lemons and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."  Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.  Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing.  Durrell writes in code.

Bruce



On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:

> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made, photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>  
> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>  
>  
> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited version of himself..
>  
> David
>  
>  
>  
> 16 William Street
> Marrickville NSW 2204
> Australia
> +61 2 9564 6165
> 0412 707 625
> www.denisetart.com.au

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From lalexsternthal at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 10:02:15 2014
From: lalexsternthal at gmail.com (Lee Sternthal)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:02:15 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>
	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>

i think in order to find what you're looking for it sounds like you're making the case that you'd have to look for it in friends and associates' correspondence, journals and accounts.  and that does sound like the way to go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably also be a bit more intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" hadn't been married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she passed.  

> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor, Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books.  Probably for reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of Bitter Lemons and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."  Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.  Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing.  Durrell writes in code.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> 
>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made, photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>  
>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>  
>>  
>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited version of himself..
>>  
>> David
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 16 William Street
>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>> Australia
>> +61 2 9564 6165
>> 0412 707 625
>> www.denisetart.com.au
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From bredwine1968 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 11:35:30 2014
From: bredwine1968 at gmail.com (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:35:30 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>
	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>
	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>

Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed everyone has his/her notions of what amusing behavior is, especially in the context of boys frolicking around after probably too much wine.  Artemis Cooper seems to be describing some kind of public school frolic.  I do, however, find it strange to have Durrell described as holding "the victim's [Paddy's] penis," if accurate.  On the other hand, maybe this is what went on in the public schools around this time ? all in complete innocence.  Cooper describes Leigh Fermor and Fielding as "brothers-in-arms," which they were on Crete and "friends ever after."  This is a fine example of male bonding in the military.  Had the U.S. soldiers of this period been photographed engaging in such horseplay, however, a charge of homosexuality could have been brought (possibly resulting in dismissal from the service).  But we Americans are a bunch of prudes.

Bruce



On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal <lalexsternthal at gmail.com> wrote:

> i think in order to find what you're looking for it sounds like you're making the case that you'd have to look for it in friends and associates' correspondence, journals and accounts.  and that does sound like the way to go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably also be a bit more intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" hadn't been married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she passed.  
> 
> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor, Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books.  Probably for reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of Bitter Lemons and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."  Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.  Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing.  Durrell writes in code.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> 
>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made, photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>>  
>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited version of himself..
>>>  
>>> David
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 16 William Street
>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>> Australia
>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>> 0412 707 625
>>> www.denisetart.com.au
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 12:13:29 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:13:29 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>
	<37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>

The public school behaviour is pretty explicitly named in /Pied Piper of 
Lovers/: "sodomy" (171).  He's also quite explicit in not disparaging it 
(120, 219, 220) while at the same time saying it wasn't to his 
autobiographical protagonist's particular taste (120).  In essence, this 
is why I disagree over the issue of Durrell's being "repressed" about 
homosexuality -- I see him as being pretty comfortable with the range of 
sexualities any individual aligns with at one time or another (though a 
case study of repression appears in a very cheeky form in /The Black Book/).

Does the "frolicking around" make us rethink Darley gazing on Keats's 
"newly god-like body" while he showers?  I'd be inclined to see Darley 
not as a repressing his homosexuality but rather as being quite 
comfortable with the homoerotic elements of his heterosexual identity.

In essence, that's why "bisexual love" is so important to the Quartet in 
my reading -- it's everywhere in the book, including the stylistic level.

All best,
James

On 2014-06-10, 11:35 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed everyone has his/her notions
> of what amusing behavior is, especially in the context of boys
> frolicking around after probably too much wine.  Artemis Cooper seems to
> be describing some kind of public school frolic.  I do, however, find it
> strange to have Durrell described as holding "the victim's [Paddy's]
> penis," if accurate.  On the other hand, maybe this is what went on in
> the public schools around this time ? all in complete innocence.  Cooper
> describes Leigh Fermor and Fielding as "brothers-in-arms," which they
> were on Crete and "friends ever after."  This is a fine example of male
> bonding in the military.  Had the U.S. soldiers of this period been
> photographed engaging in such horseplay, however, a charge of
> homosexuality could have been brought (possibly resulting in dismissal
> from the service).  But we Americans are a bunch of prudes.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal <lalexsternthal at gmail.com
> <mailto:lalexsternthal at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> i think in order to find what you're looking for it sounds like you're
>> making the case that you'd have to look for it in friends and
>> associates' correspondence, journals and accounts.  and that does
>> sound like the way to go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds
>> more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably also be a bit more
>> intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" hadn't been
>> married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she passed.
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the
>>> sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a
>>> naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor,
>>> Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books.  Probably for
>>> reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to
>>> allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of /Bitter Lemons/
>>> and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."
>>>  Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a
>>> hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.
>>>  Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing.  Durrell
>>> writes in code.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green
>>> <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence
>>>> Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa
>>>> Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and
>>>> feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his
>>>> company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine
>>>> sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees
>>>> through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed
>>>> out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to
>>>> take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that
>>>> looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made,
>>>> photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the
>>>> sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an
>>>> enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a
>>>> high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another
>>>> photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for
>>>> Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the
>>>> most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent
>>>> discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably
>>>> devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague
>>>> implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are
>>>> quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited
>>>> version of himself..
>>>> David
>>>> 16 William Street
>>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>>> Australia
>>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>>> 0412 707 625
>>>> www.denisetart.com.au <http://www.denisetart.com.au/>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>

From robin.w.collins at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 12:11:50 2014
From: robin.w.collins at gmail.com (Robin Collins)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 15:11:50 -0400
Subject: [ilds] LD in review of Fermor's final book
Message-ID: <CAKes=nEGRZArUHMeZU3Xt8z94SYoChAnd2i9w6zPGzOVB01gWA@mail.gmail.com>

as it happens, there's a brief reference to LD in the review of Fermor's
last book in the current NY Review of Books:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/jun/19/inspired-voyage-patrick-leigh-fermor/

"In a review of *Mani* that appeared when the book was first published,
Lawrence Durrell referred to the ?truffled style and dense plumage? of
Leigh Fermor?s prose. What you think of his writing, and indeed what you
make of the final installment of his most beloved work, depends on your
taste for truffles and feathers."
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From lasternthal at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 12:20:49 2014
From: lasternthal at gmail.com (Lee Sternthal)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:20:49 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>
	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>
	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>
	<37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
	<539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B70E9E5B-77C2-43E0-8137-98BAC57A74D3@gmail.com>

I agree with your analysis completely.

> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The public school behaviour is pretty explicitly named in /Pied Piper of Lovers/: "sodomy" (171).  He's also quite explicit in not disparaging it (120, 219, 220) while at the same time saying it wasn't to his autobiographical protagonist's particular taste (120).  In essence, this is why I disagree over the issue of Durrell's being "repressed" about homosexuality -- I see him as being pretty comfortable with the range of sexualities any individual aligns with at one time or another (though a case study of repression appears in a very cheeky form in /The Black Book/).
> 
> Does the "frolicking around" make us rethink Darley gazing on Keats's "newly god-like body" while he showers?  I'd be inclined to see Darley not as a repressing his homosexuality but rather as being quite comfortable with the homoerotic elements of his heterosexual identity.
> 
> In essence, that's why "bisexual love" is so important to the Quartet in my reading -- it's everywhere in the book, including the stylistic level.
> 
> All best,
> James
> 
>> On 2014-06-10, 11:35 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed everyone has his/her notions
>> of what amusing behavior is, especially in the context of boys
>> frolicking around after probably too much wine.  Artemis Cooper seems to
>> be describing some kind of public school frolic.  I do, however, find it
>> strange to have Durrell described as holding "the victim's [Paddy's]
>> penis," if accurate.  On the other hand, maybe this is what went on in
>> the public schools around this time ? all in complete innocence.  Cooper
>> describes Leigh Fermor and Fielding as "brothers-in-arms," which they
>> were on Crete and "friends ever after."  This is a fine example of male
>> bonding in the military.  Had the U.S. soldiers of this period been
>> photographed engaging in such horseplay, however, a charge of
>> homosexuality could have been brought (possibly resulting in dismissal
>> from the service).  But we Americans are a bunch of prudes.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal <lalexsternthal at gmail.com
>> <mailto:lalexsternthal at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> i think in order to find what you're looking for it sounds like you're
>>> making the case that you'd have to look for it in friends and
>>> associates' correspondence, journals and accounts.  and that does
>>> sound like the way to go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds
>>> more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably also be a bit more
>>> intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" hadn't been
>>> married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she passed.
>>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the
>>>> sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a
>>>> naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor,
>>>> Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books.  Probably for
>>>> reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to
>>>> allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of /Bitter Lemons/
>>>> and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."
>>>> Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a
>>>> hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.
>>>> Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing.  Durrell
>>>> writes in code.
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green
>>>> <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence
>>>>> Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa
>>>>> Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and
>>>>> feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his
>>>>> company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine
>>>>> sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees
>>>>> through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed
>>>>> out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>>>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to
>>>>> take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that
>>>>> looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made,
>>>>> photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the
>>>>> sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an
>>>>> enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a
>>>>> high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another
>>>>> photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for
>>>>> Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the
>>>>> most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent
>>>>> discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably
>>>>> devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague
>>>>> implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are
>>>>> quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited
>>>>> version of himself..
>>>>> David
>>>>> 16 William Street
>>>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>>>> Australia
>>>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>>>> 0412 707 625
>>>>> www.denisetart.com.au <http://www.denisetart.com.au/>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From marc at marcpiel.fr  Tue Jun 10 13:32:45 2014
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:32:45 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>	<37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
	<539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53976B6D.8050602@marcpiel.fr>

Indeed page 171 with one word out of 304 pages is 
sufficient to accuse and condemn!!!!!!!
Where are we going????????? Some call this 
unbiased!!!!

Marc Piel

Le 10/06/14 21:13, James Gifford a ?crit :
> The public school behaviour is pretty explicitly 
> named in /Pied Piper of Lovers/: "sodomy" 
> (171).  He's also quite explicit in not 
> disparaging it (120, 219, 220) while at the same 
> time saying it wasn't to his autobiographical 
> protagonist's particular taste (120).  In 
> essence, this is why I disagree over the issue 
> of Durrell's being "repressed" about 
> homosexuality -- I see him as being pretty 
> comfortable with the range of sexualities any 
> individual aligns with at one time or another 
> (though a case study of repression appears in a 
> very cheeky form in /The Black Book/).
>
> Does the "frolicking around" make us rethink 
> Darley gazing on Keats's "newly god-like body" 
> while he showers?  I'd be inclined to see Darley 
> not as a repressing his homosexuality but rather 
> as being quite comfortable with the homoerotic 
> elements of his heterosexual identity.
>
> In essence, that's why "bisexual love" is so 
> important to the Quartet in my reading -- it's 
> everywhere in the book, including the stylistic 
> level.
>
> All best,
> James
>
> On 2014-06-10, 11:35 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed 
>> everyone has his/her notions
>> of what amusing behavior is, especially in the 
>> context of boys
>> frolicking around after probably too much 
>> wine.  Artemis Cooper seems to
>> be describing some kind of public school 
>> frolic.  I do, however, find it
>> strange to have Durrell described as holding 
>> "the victim's [Paddy's]
>> penis," if accurate.  On the other hand, maybe 
>> this is what went on in
>> the public schools around this time ? all in 
>> complete innocence.  Cooper
>> describes Leigh Fermor and Fielding as 
>> "brothers-in-arms," which they
>> were on Crete and "friends ever after."  This 
>> is a fine example of male
>> bonding in the military.  Had the U.S. soldiers 
>> of this period been
>> photographed engaging in such horseplay, 
>> however, a charge of
>> homosexuality could have been brought (possibly 
>> resulting in dismissal
>> from the service).  But we Americans are a 
>> bunch of prudes.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal 
>> <lalexsternthal at gmail.com
>> <mailto:lalexsternthal at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> i think in order to find what you're looking 
>>> for it sounds like you're
>>> making the case that you'd have to look for it 
>>> in friends and
>>> associates' correspondence, journals and 
>>> accounts.  and that does
>>> sound like the way to go.  but this episode 
>>> recorded by Fermur sounds
>>> more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd 
>>> probably also be a bit more
>>> intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" 
>>> hadn't been
>>> married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years 
>>> before she passed.
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine 
>>> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of 
>>>> the tableau at the
>>>> sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's 
>>>> book, although a photo of a
>>>> naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the 
>>>> work done by his editor,
>>>> Durrell himself edited a lot out of his 
>>>> island books. Probably for
>>>> reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He 
>>>> does, however, seem to
>>>> allude to private matters.  E.g., the 
>>>> beginning of /Bitter Lemons/
>>>> and the colors of Venice described as though 
>>>> "stricken by dementia."
>>>>  Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd 
>>>> been visiting Eve in a
>>>> hospital in Germany where she was being 
>>>> treated for schizophrenia.
>>>>  Michael Haag has a lot of say about this 
>>>> kind of thing. Durrell
>>>> writes in code.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & 
>>>> David Green
>>>> <dtart at bigpond.net.au 
>>>> <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to 
>>>>> Rhodes, where Lawrence
>>>>> Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve 
>>>>> Cohen, in the Villa
>>>>> Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent 
>>>>> in talk and music and
>>>>> feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things 
>>>>> always happened in his
>>>>> company and one afternoon, in the ruins of 
>>>>> ancient Camirus, wine
>>>>> sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling 
>>>>> on hands and knees
>>>>> through the bat-infested warren of 
>>>>> underground conduits. We climbed
>>>>> out covered in droppings and dust and 
>>>>> cobwebs...
>>>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it 
>>>>> seemed like a good idea to
>>>>> take them off. They walked on naked and came 
>>>>> across a stone that
>>>>> looked just like a sacrificial altar. A 
>>>>> tableau was made,
>>>>> photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the 
>>>>> stone and Larry held the
>>>>> sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle 
>>>>> browed Xan wielded an
>>>>> enormous knife. Then, still naked, they 
>>>>> walked along the top of a
>>>>> high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, 
>>>>> immortalised in another
>>>>> photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The 
>>>>> Corn Goddess'. As for
>>>>> Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad 
>>>>> Irishman... quite the
>>>>> most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by 
>>>>> Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in 
>>>>> the light of recent
>>>>> discussions. By the way, Durrell's own 
>>>>> island book are remarkably
>>>>> devoid such such escapades and sexuality. 
>>>>> Indeed apart from vague
>>>>> implications and polite descriptions 
>>>>> Durrell's island books are
>>>>> quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a 
>>>>> carefully edited
>>>>> version of himself..
>>>>> David
>>>>> 16 William Street
>>>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>>>> Australia
>>>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>>>> 0412 707 625
>>>>> www.denisetart.com.au 
>>>>> <http://www.denisetart.com.au/>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>

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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Tue Jun 10 13:35:43 2014
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:35:43 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>
	<37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53976C1F.5050105@marcpiel.fr>

Some would say prude bastards!!!

Le 10/06/14 20:35, Bruce Redwine a ?crit :
> Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed 
> everyone has his/her notions of what amusing 
> behavior is, especially in the context of boys 
> frolicking around after probably too much wine. 
>  Artemis Cooper seems to be describing some kind 
> of public school frolic.  I do, however, find it 
> strange to have Durrell described as holding 
> "the victim's [Paddy's] penis," if accurate.  On 
> the other hand, maybe this is what went on in 
> the public schools around this time --- all in 
> complete innocence.  Cooper describes Leigh 
> Fermor and Fielding as "brothers-in-arms," which 
> they were on Crete and "friends ever after." 
>  This is a fine example of male bonding in the 
> military.  Had the U.S. soldiers of this period 
> been photographed engaging in such horseplay, 
> however, a charge of homosexuality could have 
> been brought (possibly resulting in dismissal 
> from the service).  But we Americans are a bunch 
> of prudes.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal 
> <lalexsternthal at gmail.com 
> <mailto:lalexsternthal at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> i think in order to find what you're looking 
>> for it sounds like you're making the case that 
>> you'd have to look for it in friends and 
>> associates' correspondence, journals and 
>> accounts.  and that does sound like the way to 
>> go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds 
>> more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably 
>> also be a bit more intrigued if the owner of 
>> the "victim's penis" hadn't been married/with 
>> his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she 
>> passed.
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine 
>> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of 
>>> the tableau at the sacrificial altar.  It's 
>>> not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a 
>>> naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the 
>>> work done by his editor, Durrell himself 
>>> edited a lot out of his island books. 
>>>  Probably for reasons of privacy and 
>>> confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to 
>>> allude to private matters.  E.g., the 
>>> beginning of /Bitter Lemons/ and the colors of 
>>> Venice described as though "stricken by 
>>> dementia."  Why dementia?  Well, prior to 
>>> Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a hospital in 
>>> Germany where she was being treated for 
>>> schizophrenia.  Michael Haag has a lot of say 
>>> about this kind of thing.  Durrell writes in 
>>> code.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & 
>>> David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au 
>>> <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to 
>>>> Rhodes, where Lawrence Durrell was living 
>>>> with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa 
>>>> Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent 
>>>> in talk and music and feasting, ' wrote 
>>>> Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his 
>>>> company and one afternoon, in the ruins of 
>>>> ancient Camirus, wine sprung curiosity set 
>>>> the four of us crawling on hands and knees 
>>>> through the bat-infested warren of 
>>>> underground conduits. We climbed out covered 
>>>> in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it 
>>>> seemed like a good idea to take them off. 
>>>> They walked on naked and came across a stone 
>>>> that looked just like a sacrificial altar. A 
>>>> tableau was made, photographed by Joan: paddy 
>>>> lay across the stone and Larry held the 
>>>> sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle 
>>>> browed Xan wielded an enormous knife. Then, 
>>>> still naked, they walked along the top of a 
>>>> high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, 
>>>> immortalised in another photo by Joan whom 
>>>> Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As 
>>>> for Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful 
>>>> mad Irishman... quite the most enchanting 
>>>> maniac I've ever met'."
>>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by 
>>>> Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in 
>>>> the light of recent discussions. By the way, 
>>>> Durrell's own island book are remarkably 
>>>> devoid such such escapades and sexuality. 
>>>> Indeed apart from vague implications and 
>>>> polite descriptions Durrell's island books 
>>>> are quite sexless, unlike the biggies. 
>>>> Perhaps a carefully edited version of himself..
>>>> David
>>>> 16 William Street
>>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>>> Australia
>>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>>> 0412 707 625
>>>> www.denisetart.com.au 
>>>> <http://www.denisetart.com.au/>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue Jun 10 13:47:06 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:47:06 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>
	<37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
	<539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BCED22E-4358-4E0A-A564-475E0C457F2A@earthlink.net>

James, thanks for the Pied Piper of Lovers references.  I have no problems with seeing Lawrence Durrell "as being pretty comfortable with the range of sexualities."  I would go further and suggest he even occasionally engaged in some form of bisexuality, as indicated by the photograph under discussion.  So I guess I'm saying he wasn't "repressed," rather ? what? ? open?  I'm not sure what you mean by "bisexual love" at "the stylistic level."  Is there such a thing as a "bisexual style," unless you're referring to erotic descriptions of heterosexuality and homosexuality?  Stylistically, aside from your reference to a naked John Keats, Durrell was quite tame in his treatment of sex in the Quartet and even chastised Miller for being too explicit in Sexus.  He gets much bolder in the Quintet, however, e.g., Constance examining her vagina in Constance.

Bruce




On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:

> The public school behaviour is pretty explicitly named in /Pied Piper of Lovers/: "sodomy" (171).  He's also quite explicit in not disparaging it (120, 219, 220) while at the same time saying it wasn't to his autobiographical protagonist's particular taste (120).  In essence, this is why I disagree over the issue of Durrell's being "repressed" about homosexuality -- I see him as being pretty comfortable with the range of sexualities any individual aligns with at one time or another (though a case study of repression appears in a very cheeky form in /The Black Book/).
> 
> Does the "frolicking around" make us rethink Darley gazing on Keats's "newly god-like body" while he showers?  I'd be inclined to see Darley not as a repressing his homosexuality but rather as being quite comfortable with the homoerotic elements of his heterosexual identity.
> 
> In essence, that's why "bisexual love" is so important to the Quartet in my reading -- it's everywhere in the book, including the stylistic level.
> 
> All best,
> James
> 
> On 2014-06-10, 11:35 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed everyone has his/her notions
>> of what amusing behavior is, especially in the context of boys
>> frolicking around after probably too much wine.  Artemis Cooper seems to
>> be describing some kind of public school frolic.  I do, however, find it
>> strange to have Durrell described as holding "the victim's [Paddy's]
>> penis," if accurate.  On the other hand, maybe this is what went on in
>> the public schools around this time ? all in complete innocence.  Cooper
>> describes Leigh Fermor and Fielding as "brothers-in-arms," which they
>> were on Crete and "friends ever after."  This is a fine example of male
>> bonding in the military.  Had the U.S. soldiers of this period been
>> photographed engaging in such horseplay, however, a charge of
>> homosexuality could have been brought (possibly resulting in dismissal
>> from the service).  But we Americans are a bunch of prudes.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal <lalexsternthal at gmail.com
>> <mailto:lalexsternthal at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> i think in order to find what you're looking for it sounds like you're
>>> making the case that you'd have to look for it in friends and
>>> associates' correspondence, journals and accounts.  and that does
>>> sound like the way to go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds
>>> more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably also be a bit more
>>> intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" hadn't been
>>> married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she passed.
>>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the
>>>> sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a
>>>> naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor,
>>>> Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books.  Probably for
>>>> reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to
>>>> allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of /Bitter Lemons/
>>>> and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."
>>>> Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a
>>>> hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.
>>>> Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing.  Durrell
>>>> writes in code.
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green
>>>> <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence
>>>>> Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa
>>>>> Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and
>>>>> feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his
>>>>> company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine
>>>>> sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees
>>>>> through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed
>>>>> out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>>>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to
>>>>> take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that
>>>>> looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made,
>>>>> photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the
>>>>> sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an
>>>>> enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a
>>>>> high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another
>>>>> photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for
>>>>> Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the
>>>>> most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent
>>>>> discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably
>>>>> devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague
>>>>> implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are
>>>>> quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited
>>>>> version of himself..
>>>>> David
>>>>> 16 William Street
>>>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>>>> Australia
>>>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>>>> 0412 707 625
>>>>> www.denisetart.com.au <http://www.denisetart.com.au/>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From paulhopwood at mac.com  Tue Jun 10 12:47:31 2014
From: paulhopwood at mac.com (Paul Hopwood)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:47:31 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <B70E9E5B-77C2-43E0-8137-98BAC57A74D3@gmail.com>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>
	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>
	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>
	<37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
	<539758D9.4030103@gmail.com>
	<B70E9E5B-77C2-43E0-8137-98BAC57A74D3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C06EA98F-17F9-43CF-B7A1-8F18EF93ADC5@mac.com>

So do I... to me this sounds very plausible (speaking as English ex public school - and silent reader of this thread).

Paul

> On 10 Jun 2014, at 20:20, Lee Sternthal <lasternthal at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with your analysis completely.
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The public school behaviour is pretty explicitly named in /Pied Piper of Lovers/: "sodomy" (171).  He's also quite explicit in not disparaging it (120, 219, 220) while at the same time saying it wasn't to his autobiographical protagonist's particular taste (120).  In essence, this is why I disagree over the issue of Durrell's being "repressed" about homosexuality -- I see him as being pretty comfortable with the range of sexualities any individual aligns with at one time or another (though a case study of repression appears in a very cheeky form in /The Black Book/).
>> 
>> Does the "frolicking around" make us rethink Darley gazing on Keats's "newly god-like body" while he showers?  I'd be inclined to see Darley not as a repressing his homosexuality but rather as being quite comfortable with the homoerotic elements of his heterosexual identity.
>> 
>> In essence, that's why "bisexual love" is so important to the Quartet in my reading -- it's everywhere in the book, including the stylistic level.
>> 
>> All best,
>> James
>> 
>>> On 2014-06-10, 11:35 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>> Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed everyone has his/her notions
>>> of what amusing behavior is, especially in the context of boys
>>> frolicking around after probably too much wine.  Artemis Cooper seems to
>>> be describing some kind of public school frolic.  I do, however, find it
>>> strange to have Durrell described as holding "the victim's [Paddy's]
>>> penis," if accurate.  On the other hand, maybe this is what went on in
>>> the public schools around this time ? all in complete innocence.  Cooper
>>> describes Leigh Fermor and Fielding as "brothers-in-arms," which they
>>> were on Crete and "friends ever after."  This is a fine example of male
>>> bonding in the military.  Had the U.S. soldiers of this period been
>>> photographed engaging in such horseplay, however, a charge of
>>> homosexuality could have been brought (possibly resulting in dismissal
>>> from the service).  But we Americans are a bunch of prudes.
>>> 
>>> Bruce
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal <lalexsternthal at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lalexsternthal at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> i think in order to find what you're looking for it sounds like you're
>>>> making the case that you'd have to look for it in friends and
>>>> associates' correspondence, journals and accounts.  and that does
>>>> sound like the way to go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds
>>>> more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably also be a bit more
>>>> intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" hadn't been
>>>> married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she passed.
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the
>>>>> sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a
>>>>> naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor,
>>>>> Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books.  Probably for
>>>>> reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to
>>>>> allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of /Bitter Lemons/
>>>>> and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."
>>>>> Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a
>>>>> hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.
>>>>> Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing.  Durrell
>>>>> writes in code.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green
>>>>> <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence
>>>>>> Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa
>>>>>> Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and
>>>>>> feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his
>>>>>> company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine
>>>>>> sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees
>>>>>> through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed
>>>>>> out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>>>>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to
>>>>>> take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that
>>>>>> looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made,
>>>>>> photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the
>>>>>> sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an
>>>>>> enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a
>>>>>> high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another
>>>>>> photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for
>>>>>> Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the
>>>>>> most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>>>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent
>>>>>> discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably
>>>>>> devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague
>>>>>> implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are
>>>>>> quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited
>>>>>> version of himself..
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> 16 William Street
>>>>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>>>>> 0412 707 625
>>>>>> www.denisetart.com.au <http://www.denisetart.com.au/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 19:53:22 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:53:22 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Interesting adventures of Paddy Fermor and Larry Durrell
In-Reply-To: <53976B6D.8050602@marcpiel.fr>
References: <72EE1760B237481C96CA6CA06CA73A0A@DenisePC>	<AC598AFB-4E90-4B6A-AD21-0FB8F5831D5F@gmail.com>	<044C703B-41F3-43F3-B634-5F478B9FFCDC@gmail.com>	<37E77F80-7F9C-493C-8F9F-ADA2766D3905@gmail.com>
	<539758D9.4030103@gmail.com> <53976B6D.8050602@marcpiel.fr>
Message-ID: <5397C4A2.6010000@gmail.com>

Marc,

I'm afraid I don't understand what you think I'm accusing anyone of. 
There's most certainly no condemnation in my comments at all.

Perhaps a more careful look at what I've said will calm matters.

As for the pages of /Pied Piper of Lovers/, take a look at the book. 
You may find it clarifies what I've written.

All best,
James

On 2014-06-10, 1:32 PM, Marc Piel wrote:
> Indeed page 171 with one word out of 304 pages is sufficient to accuse
> and condemn!!!!!!!
> Where are we going????????? Some call this unbiased!!!!
>
> Marc Piel
>
> Le 10/06/14 21:13, James Gifford a ?crit :
>> The public school behaviour is pretty explicitly named in /Pied Piper
>> of Lovers/: "sodomy" (171).  He's also quite explicit in not
>> disparaging it (120, 219, 220) while at the same time saying it wasn't
>> to his autobiographical protagonist's particular taste (120).  In
>> essence, this is why I disagree over the issue of Durrell's being
>> "repressed" about homosexuality -- I see him as being pretty
>> comfortable with the range of sexualities any individual aligns with
>> at one time or another (though a case study of repression appears in a
>> very cheeky form in /The Black Book/).
>>
>> Does the "frolicking around" make us rethink Darley gazing on Keats's
>> "newly god-like body" while he showers?  I'd be inclined to see Darley
>> not as a repressing his homosexuality but rather as being quite
>> comfortable with the homoerotic elements of his heterosexual identity.
>>
>> In essence, that's why "bisexual love" is so important to the Quartet
>> in my reading -- it's everywhere in the book, including the stylistic
>> level.
>>
>> All best,
>> James
>>
>> On 2014-06-10, 11:35 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>> Now that you've brought it up.  I supposed everyone has his/her notions
>>> of what amusing behavior is, especially in the context of boys
>>> frolicking around after probably too much wine.  Artemis Cooper seems to
>>> be describing some kind of public school frolic.  I do, however, find it
>>> strange to have Durrell described as holding "the victim's [Paddy's]
>>> penis," if accurate.  On the other hand, maybe this is what went on in
>>> the public schools around this time ? all in complete innocence.  Cooper
>>> describes Leigh Fermor and Fielding as "brothers-in-arms," which they
>>> were on Crete and "friends ever after."  This is a fine example of male
>>> bonding in the military.  Had the U.S. soldiers of this period been
>>> photographed engaging in such horseplay, however, a charge of
>>> homosexuality could have been brought (possibly resulting in dismissal
>>> from the service).  But we Americans are a bunch of prudes.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Lee Sternthal <lalexsternthal at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lalexsternthal at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i think in order to find what you're looking for it sounds like you're
>>>> making the case that you'd have to look for it in friends and
>>>> associates' correspondence, journals and accounts.  and that does
>>>> sound like the way to go.  but this episode recorded by Fermur sounds
>>>> more amusing than erotic.  i think i'd probably also be a bit more
>>>> intrigued if the owner of the "victim's penis" hadn't been
>>>> married/with his wife Joan for nearly 60 years before she passed.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David, I'd like to see Joan's photograph of the tableau at the
>>>>> sacrificial altar.  It's not in Cooper's book, although a photo of a
>>>>> naked Xan atop a column is.  Aside from the work done by his editor,
>>>>> Durrell himself edited a lot out of his island books. Probably for
>>>>> reasons of privacy and confidentiality.  He does, however, seem to
>>>>> allude to private matters.  E.g., the beginning of /Bitter Lemons/
>>>>> and the colors of Venice described as though "stricken by dementia."
>>>>>  Why dementia?  Well, prior to Venice he'd been visiting Eve in a
>>>>> hospital in Germany where she was being treated for schizophrenia.
>>>>>  Michael Haag has a lot of say about this kind of thing. Durrell
>>>>> writes in code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Denise Tart & David Green
>>>>> <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "After a few days on Santorini they went to Rhodes, where Lawrence
>>>>>> Durrell was living with his second wife, Eve Cohen, in the Villa
>>>>>> Cleobolus..'It was an amazing sojourn, spent in talk and music and
>>>>>> feasting, ' wrote Paddy. 'Strange things always happened in his
>>>>>> company and one afternoon, in the ruins of ancient Camirus, wine
>>>>>> sprung curiosity set the four of us crawling on hands and knees
>>>>>> through the bat-infested warren of underground conduits. We climbed
>>>>>> out covered in droppings and dust and cobwebs...
>>>>>> With their clothes so torn and filthy, it seemed like a good idea to
>>>>>> take them off. They walked on naked and came across a stone that
>>>>>> looked just like a sacrificial altar. A tableau was made,
>>>>>> photographed by Joan: paddy lay across the stone and Larry held the
>>>>>> sacrificial victim's penis, while beetle browed Xan wielded an
>>>>>> enormous knife. Then, still naked, they walked along the top of a
>>>>>> high wall (where Xan) struck an Eros pose, immortalised in another
>>>>>> photo by Joan whom Durrell described as 'The Corn Goddess'. As for
>>>>>> Paddy he was described as 'a wonderful mad Irishman... quite the
>>>>>> most enchanting maniac I've ever met'."
>>>>>> From Patrick Leigh Fermor: an Adventure by Artemis Cooper (2012)
>>>>>> Thought this might amuse/delight/intrigue in the light of recent
>>>>>> discussions. By the way, Durrell's own island book are remarkably
>>>>>> devoid such such escapades and sexuality. Indeed apart from vague
>>>>>> implications and polite descriptions Durrell's island books are
>>>>>> quite sexless, unlike the biggies. Perhaps a carefully edited
>>>>>> version of himself..
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> 16 William Street
>>>>>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>> +61 2 9564 6165
>>>>>> 0412 707 625
>>>>>> www.denisetart.com.au <http://www.denisetart.com.au/>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>

From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Tue Jun 10 20:27:19 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:27:19 -0700
Subject: [ilds] ILDS listserv | general notes
Message-ID: <5397CC97.7020809@gmail.com>

Dear all,

A few administrative updates:

1) If you wish to receive a copy of your own posted messages, this is in 
your own account options in the listserv.  I cannot change it for you -- 
you need to login and set it yourself.  It conforms to whatever options 
you chose when you subscribed.  If you no longer remember the password 
you selected for yourself, you can reset it or request a reminder 
automatically:

2) While debate and disagreement are welcome, please refrain from 
insulting or derogatory messages.  Across nearing 20 years of existence, 
this listserv has had virtually no censorship, and we (administrators) 
would very prefer to keep it that way.

3) If you have received a "bounce" notification, it means your email 
account was returning messages for one of many possible reasons.  This 
doesn't mean anyone has done something to you.  You merely need to 
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3.1) Several microsoft products (hotmail, live, msn, etc.) changed their 
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All the login information is here:

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You can also login through the ILDS website: http://www.lawrencedurrell.org

All best,
James

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 11 08:44:10 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:44:10 -0700
Subject: [ilds] LD in review of Fermor's final book
In-Reply-To: <CAKes=nEGRZArUHMeZU3Xt8z94SYoChAnd2i9w6zPGzOVB01gWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKes=nEGRZArUHMeZU3Xt8z94SYoChAnd2i9w6zPGzOVB01gWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF39527E-1DDC-4ECE-90F1-3F07F25F1E7A@earthlink.net>

Thanks.  Interesting.  What Durrell says of his friend Leigh Fermor could also be said of Durrell himself ? both have ornate, baroque prose.  Mani is a fascinating book, full of strange people and adventures, coupled with Leigh Fermor's flights of fancy and tremendous erudition.  I can't imagine Durrell undertaking an exploration of the Mani and enduring all the hardship.  As Bill Godshalk once observed, Durrell is really an armchair adventurer.  Durrell's Greek Islands is similar in some respects but doesn't seen as authentic.  His travel books are more invented, although Leigh Fermor can't match Durrell's poetry.

Bruce



On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Robin Collins <robin.w.collins at gmail.com> wrote:

> as it happens, there's a brief reference to LD in the review of Fermor's last book in the current NY Review of Books: 
> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/jun/19/inspired-voyage-patrick-leigh-fermor/
> 
> "In a review of Mani that appeared when the book was first published, Lawrence Durrell referred to the ?truffled style and dense plumage? of Leigh Fermor?s prose. What you think of his writing, and indeed what you make of the final installment of his most beloved work, depends on your taste for truffles and feathers."
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jun 13 20:44:34 2014
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 13:44:34 +1000
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
Message-ID: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>


I have been sitting for some time, looking at the browning leaves against the grey sky and it came to me that Leigh Fermor, who was a vast, life force character, wrote the way he was as a person; the outer man was the writing. Paddy stopped writing when he was too old to live that outer life (stay with me here). Durrell did not write the way he outwardly appeared - ebullient, life of the party etc, ladies man, but his writing comes from, as Bowker so truly states, from the darker self, a different Durrell; gothic, tunnels of darkness (think the bat cave story that Fermor relates) leading some times to sunlit uplands (the Dark Labyrinth) or often not (Av Q) - themes of suicide, wounded sex and so forth

the Darkness of Durrell's self hit some wives, bullied a daughter and her friends  but this does appear his fiction, carefully constructed. I see often a quiet, brooding man, at his desk at 4 am, maybe hung-over, coming to terms with the mess of life but twisting it all into a labyrinthine construct - especially in the big books, but the island ones as well in the sense that, though full of inexpressible charm, they are quiet reflective and very poetic pieces, especially Prospero's and Venus; in Cyprus of course the lemons turn bitter indeed. I understand why Lazza wanted to be remembered as a poet (well, he said this) because he is, as Shakespeare was, a poet in prose. Paddy Fermor comes across as a restless soul on good terms with himself and the world. Larry, but contrast, a boon companion but someone who never came to terms with himself (his demons if you like) and writing and Buddhism and alcohol were all ways of dealing with this.

I read in Artemis Cooper's biography that Fermor got involved in a great drunken brawl one Christmas in Ireland where even the women got involved. Fermor got knocked out, had his head cut open by a woman's ring fingered punch, went to hospital and in true upper class style, thought nothing of it. One cannot imagine this happening to Larry - the arm chair travel writer whose violence seems to have extended to people (women) weaker than himself.

None of this detracts from my view of Larry. He said he was not really a travel writer but lived in places and wrote about them. Years ago I lived in Maine USA and spent most of my time there when some thought I should be 'seeing the USA' - but I know Maine - there are streams and lakes and people and customs and ways of speaking and jokes and beers that I will never forget and also a 1968 Pontiac Catalina 6.6 litre V8 coupe convertable.

Cooper's book on Fermor is a good read and Larry crops up a few times.

David
16 William Street
Marrickville NSW 2204
Australia
+61 2 9564 6165
0412 707 625
www.denisetart.com.au
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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jun 13 23:24:12 2014
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:24:12 +1000
Subject: [ilds] correction
Message-ID: <9201F21B65614D8482BBBBFAA7A4A42C@DenisePC>

self proofing never quite works.

'but this does appear in his fiction' should read

'this does not appear in his fiction'.

sincere apologies.




David
16 William Street
Marrickville NSW 2204
+61 2 9564 6165
0412 707 625
www.denisetart.com.au
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From billyapt at gmail.com  Sat Jun 14 04:54:43 2014
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 06:54:43 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>
References: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>
Message-ID: <A360F94B-74A6-4314-B2BB-444EB4E9D708@gmail.com>

Interesting observations, David, and probably quite accurate. But Fermor, as an adult, seemed to have an propensity for physical altercations: outright brawling, fist fighting, which I find disturbing, and which is not revealed by his books, but rather by his correspondence with Debo Devonshire and by the bio. From what dark side does that originate? 

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On Jun 13, 2014, at 10:44 PM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> 
>  
> I have been sitting for some time, looking at the browning leaves against the grey sky and it came to me that Leigh Fermor, who was a vast, life force character, wrote the way he was as a person; the outer man was the writing. Paddy stopped writing when he was too old to live that outer life (stay with me here). Durrell did not write the way he outwardly  appeared - ebullient, life of the party etc, ladies man, but his writing comes from, as Bowker so truly states, from the darker self, a different Durrell; gothic, tunnels of darkness (think the bat cave story that Fermor relates) leading some times to sunlit uplands (the Dark Labyrinth) or often not (Av Q) - themes of suicide, wounded sex and so forth
>  
> the Darkness of Durrell's self hit some wives, bullied a daughter and her friends  but this does appear his fiction, carefully constructed. I see often a quiet, brooding man, at his desk at 4 am, maybe hung-over, coming to terms with the mess of life but twisting it all into a labyrinthine construct - especially in the big books, but the island ones as well in the sense that, though full of inexpressible charm, they are quiet reflective and very poetic pieces, especially Prospero's and Venus; in Cyprus of course the lemons turn bitter indeed. I understand why Lazza wanted to be remembered as a poet (well, he said this) because he is, as Shakespeare was, a poet in prose. Paddy Fermor comes across as a restless soul on good terms with himself and the world. Larry, but contrast, a boon companion but someone who never came to terms with himself (his demons if you like) and writing and Buddhism and alcohol were all ways of dealing with this.
>  
> I read in Artemis Cooper's biography that Fermor got involved in a great drunken brawl one Christmas in Ireland where even the women got involved. Fermor got knocked out, had his head cut open by a woman's ring fingered punch, went to hospital and in true upper class style, thought nothing of it. One cannot imagine this happening to Larry - the arm chair travel writer whose violence seems to have extended to people (women) weaker than himself.
>  
> None of this detracts from my view of Larry. He said he was not really a travel writer but lived in places and wrote about them. Years ago I lived in Maine USA and spent most of my time there when some thought I should be 'seeing the USA' - but I know Maine - there are streams and lakes and people and customs and ways of speaking and jokes and beers that I will never forget and also a 1968 Pontiac Catalina 6.6 litre V8 coupe convertable.
>  
> Cooper's book on Fermor is a good read and Larry crops up a few times.
>  
> David
> 16 William Street
> Marrickville NSW 2204
> Australia
> +61 2 9564 6165
> 0412 707 625
> www.denisetart.com.au
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sat Jun 14 07:09:12 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:09:12 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>
References: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>
Message-ID: <C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>

David, well said.  This is also my view of Durrell the man and artist.  The next thing is to ask, what was wrong with him?

Bruce

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2014, at 8:44 PM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> 
>  
> I have been sitting for some time, looking at the browning leaves against the grey sky and it came to me that Leigh Fermor, who was a vast, life force character, wrote the way he was as a person; the outer man was the writing. Paddy stopped writing when he was too old to live that outer life (stay with me here). Durrell did not write the way he outwardly appeared - ebullient, life of the party etc, ladies man, but his writing comes from, as Bowker so truly states, from the darker self, a different Durrell; gothic, tunnels of darkness (think the bat cave story that Fermor relates) leading some times to sunlit uplands (the Dark Labyrinth) or often not (Av Q) - themes of suicide, wounded sex and so forth
>  
> the Darkness of Durrell's self hit some wives, bullied a daughter and her friends  but this does appear his fiction, carefully constructed. I see often a quiet, brooding man, at his desk at 4 am, maybe hung-over, coming to terms with the mess of life but twisting it all into a labyrinthine construct - especially in the big books, but the island ones as well in the sense that, though full of inexpressible charm, they are quiet reflective and very poetic pieces, especially Prospero's and Venus; in Cyprus of course the lemons turn bitter indeed. I understand why Lazza wanted to be remembered as a poet (well, he said this) because he is, as Shakespeare  was, a poet in prose. Paddy Fermor comes across as a restless soul on good terms with himself and the world. Larry, but contrast, a boon companion but someone who never came to terms with himself (his demons if you like) and writing and Buddhism and alcohol were all ways of dealing with this.
>  
> I read in Artemis Cooper's biography that Fermor got involved in a great drunken brawl one Christmas in Ireland where even the women got involved. Fermor got knocked out, had his head cut open by a woman's ring fingered punch, went to hospital and in true upper class style, thought nothing of it. One cannot imagine this happening to Larry - the arm chair travel writer whose violence seems to have extended to people (women) weaker than himself.
>  
> None of this detracts from my view of Larry. He said he was not really a travel writer but lived in places and wrote about them. Years ago I lived in Maine USA and spent most of my time there when some thought I should be 'seeing the USA' - but I know Maine - there are streams and lakes and people and customs and ways of speaking and jokes and beers that I will never forget and also a 1968 Pontiac Catalina 6.6 litre V8 coupe convertable.
>  
> Cooper's book on Fermor is a good read and Larry crops up a few times.
>  
> David
> 16 William Street
> Marrickville NSW 2204
> Australia
> +61 2 9564 6165
> 0412 707 625
> www.denisetart.com.au
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Sat Jun 14 19:00:26 2014
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 12:00:26 +1000
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>
References: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>
	<C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <049C5424-6C40-4C21-BD49-08539D983FAB@bigpond.net.au>

William,

Cooper might suggest that  Fermor was compensating for a sense of inadequacy. But also he was a good boxer and probably enjoyed fighting. He certainly liked drinking and, as me old gaffer used to say, there is a fight in every bottle. Few writers describe themselves as they truly are, except maybe Bukowski who said his stories and poems were 90 percent true and ten percent embellishment.

David

Sent from my iPad

> On 15 Jun 2014, at 12:09 am, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> David, well said.  This is also my view of Durrell the man and artist.  The next thing is to ask, what was wrong with him?
> 
> Bruce
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2014, at 8:44 PM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> I have been sitting for some time, looking at the browning leaves against the grey sky and it came to me that Leigh Fermor, who was a vast, life force character, wrote the way he was as a person; the outer man was the writing. Paddy stopped writing when he was too old to live that outer life (stay with me here). Durrell did not write the way he outwardly appeared - ebullient, life of the party etc, ladies man, but his writing comes from, as Bowker so truly states, from the darker self, a different Durrell; gothic, tunnels of darkness (think the bat cave story that Fermor relates) leading some times to sunlit uplands (the Dark Labyrinth) or often not (Av Q) - themes of suicide, wounded sex and so forth
>>  
>> the Darkness of Durrell's self hit some wives, bullied a daughter and her friends  but this does appear his fiction, carefully constructed. I see often a quiet, brooding man, at his desk at 4 am, maybe hung-over, coming to terms with the mess of life but twisting it all into a labyrinthine construct - especially in the big books, but the island ones as well in the sense that, though full of inexpressible charm, they are quiet reflective and very poetic pieces, especially Prospero's and Venus; in Cyprus of course the lemons turn bitter indeed. I understand why Lazza wanted to be remembered as a poet (well, he said this) because he is, as Shakespeare was, a poet in prose. Paddy Fermor comes across as a restless soul on good terms with himself and the world. Larry, but contrast, a boon companion but someone who never came to terms with himself (his demons if you like) and writing and Buddhism and alcohol were all ways of dealing with this.
>>  
>> I read in Artemis Cooper's biography that Fermor got involved in a great drunken brawl one Christmas in Ireland where even the women got involved. Fermor got knocked out, had his head cut open by a woman's ring fingered punch, went to hospital and in true upper class style, thought nothing of it. One cannot imagine this happening to Larry - the arm chair travel writer whose violence seems to have extended to people (women) weaker than himself.
>>  
>> None of this detracts from my view of Larry. He said he was not really a travel writer but lived in places and wrote about them. Years ago I lived in Maine USA and spent most of my time there when some thought I should be 'seeing the USA' - but I know Maine - there are streams and lakes and people and customs and ways of speaking and jokes and beers that I will never forget and also a 1968 Pontiac Catalina 6.6 litre V8 coupe convertable.
>>  
>> Cooper's book on Fermor is a good read and Larry crops up a few times.
>>  
>> David
>> 16 William Street
>> Marrickville NSW 2204
>> Australia
>> +61 2 9564 6165
>> 0412 707 625
>> www.denisetart.com.au
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Sat Jun 14 22:43:30 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:43:30 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <049C5424-6C40-4C21-BD49-08539D983FAB@bigpond.net.au>
References: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>	<C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>
	<049C5424-6C40-4C21-BD49-08539D983FAB@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <539D3282.4030602@gmail.com>

On 2014-06-14, 7:00 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> Few writers describe themselves as they trulyare,
> except maybe Bukowski who said his stories and poems were 90
> percent true and ten percent embellishment.

Yes, but how much of that specific "said" from Bukowski was in the 10% 
range?  These authors are even performing in their letters half the 
time, as perhaps are all of us in our emails.

Henry Miller would tell biographers "everything is in my books," but his 
books are often wildly fictional...  After all, they *are* fiction.  As 
is most literature.

But a good grimace to anyone gainfully typing "gaffer"!

Best,
James

From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Sat Jun 14 22:56:30 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 22:56:30 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>
References: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>
	<C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <539D358E.10704@gmail.com>

On 2014-06-14, 7:09 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> The next thing is to ask, what was wrong with him?

I see why you're driving at with this, but shouldn't we also add, 
"what's wrong with all of us?"  If we were all happy or well-adjusted, 
would we need art, either to create or appreciate?

I'd need to look it up, but I seem to recall from Durrell's poetry a 
phrase near to "and make of his suffering an art" -- perhaps someone can 
correct me.  Was it an epigram?  Was it a paraphrase or quotation?

Rather than "wrong," I'd be more inclined to ask how he was mal-adapted, 
or perhaps ask where he struggled the most against this world and his 
situation in it.  I'd also tend to emphasize Durrell's 
self-consciousness about his problem -- he resisted analysis because he 
felt it could dry up his creative source, and for the luxuriant and 
sexually overflowing Alexandria, we are reminded "No one would mistake 
it for a happy place."  I think there was a good deal of awareness of 
this tension within himself, just not a solution.

Best,
James

From marc at marcpiel.fr  Sun Jun 15 06:57:29 2014
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 15:57:29 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <539D358E.10704@gmail.com>
References: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>	<C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>
	<539D358E.10704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <539DA649.70401@marcpiel.fr>

What about his "selected fictions"?
Marc

Le 15/06/14 07:56, James Gifford a ?crit :
> On 2014-06-14, 7:09 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> The next thing is to ask, what was wrong with him?
>
> I see why you're driving at with this, but 
> shouldn't we also add, "what's wrong with all of 
> us?"  If we were all happy or well-adjusted, 
> would we need art, either to create or appreciate?
>
> I'd need to look it up, but I seem to recall 
> from Durrell's poetry a phrase near to "and make 
> of his suffering an art" -- perhaps someone can 
> correct me.  Was it an epigram?  Was it a 
> paraphrase or quotation?
>
> Rather than "wrong," I'd be more inclined to ask 
> how he was mal-adapted, or perhaps ask where he 
> struggled the most against this world and his 
> situation in it.  I'd also tend to emphasize 
> Durrell's self-consciousness about his problem 
> -- he resisted analysis because he felt it could 
> dry up his creative source, and for the 
> luxuriant and sexually overflowing Alexandria, 
> we are reminded "No one would mistake it for a 
> happy place."  I think there was a good deal of 
> awareness of this tension within himself, just 
> not a solution.
>
> Best,
> James
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sun Jun 15 08:52:18 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 08:52:18 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Fermor and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <539D358E.10704@gmail.com>
References: <E2FDF2B26AEE4F32B4B4C8FE5C4D8D62@DenisePC>
	<C421EE02-FF66-42FB-B19A-98830182E75D@earthlink.net>
	<539D358E.10704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3BAFE80B-5D51-4C8D-A730-93B8D379DA78@earthlink.net>

The phrase "suffering an art" rings bells, but I can't place the poem.  Cf. "(The sickness of the oyster is the pearl)," the refrain in "At the Long Bar."  In "Loeb's Horace" we have "Imperatives:  seek, suffer, endure" and  "The suffering hidden under gentleness."  Durrell is very fond of the word suffering, so it obviously had great personal meaning.  No doubt he did suffer a lot and used his art as an "anodyne," another of his words.  Whether one choses "wrong" or "maladapted" to describe Durrell's condition, the fact remains that he had some serious problem which literary criticism, so far, fails to address at the author's personal level.  Either that or he was hypersensitive to the "sickness of the Age," if you will, the Weltschmerz that the great critic Erich Heller associates with German poets/writers like H?lderlin (who went mad), Kafka, Mann, and Rilke (one of Durrell's favorites).  Maybe Durrell was both, sick and hypersensitive.  Anyway, I think it useful to try and understand Durrell's personal obsessions/problems/maladaptations as a way to break into his obsessive style.

Bruce



On Jun 14, 2014, at 10:56 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2014-06-14, 7:09 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> The next thing is to ask, what was wrong with him?
> 
> I see why you're driving at with this, but shouldn't we also add, "what's wrong with all of us?"  If we were all happy or well-adjusted, would we need art, either to create or appreciate?
> 
> I'd need to look it up, but I seem to recall from Durrell's poetry a phrase near to "and make of his suffering an art" -- perhaps someone can correct me.  Was it an epigram?  Was it a paraphrase or quotation?
> 
> Rather than "wrong," I'd be more inclined to ask how he was mal-adapted, or perhaps ask where he struggled the most against this world and his situation in it.  I'd also tend to emphasize Durrell's self-consciousness about his problem -- he resisted analysis because he felt it could dry up his creative source, and for the luxuriant and sexually overflowing Alexandria, we are reminded "No one would mistake it for a happy place."  I think there was a good deal of awareness of this tension within himself, just not a solution.
> 
> Best,
> James
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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