From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com  Mon May 26 20:07:54 2014
From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 20:07:54 -0700
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
Message-ID: <CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I would
venture one:

This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also
mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can find
the ILDS Twitter feed here:

https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety

and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think
either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation and
camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. Can
the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring excitement
and joie de vivre back into the organization?

Cheers - Ken


On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:

>  Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message. As
> a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there is a
> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!
>
> Can someone please clarify?
>
> Marc Piel
>
>  Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>
> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>
> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to
> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we can
> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the
> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>
> The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's
> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past presidents
> are also ex-officio members):
>
> Linda Rashidi - President
> James Clawson - Vice President
> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>
> At-large:
> Charles Sligh
> Pamela Francis
> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>
> I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the
> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who
> served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my" board for
> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable.
>
> All best,
> James
>
> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>
> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to
> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the
> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>
> I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big fan
> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!) and
> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS
> e-mails and read every one.
>
> Cheers - Ken
>
>
> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC.
>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted the
>     conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and
>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.  I
>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address.  It is
>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string
>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of
>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to
>     Merrianne Timko.
>
>     Best wishes,
>
>     Bruce
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     ILDS mailing list
>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> <ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>  _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
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From billyapt at gmail.com  Tue May 27 06:26:12 2014
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 08:26:12 -0500
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>

I agree. I don't do Facebook or Twitter and, for a couple of years now, have noticed virtually no activity on the listserv, so had no idea what was going on. Just assumed an absence of activity. Very much missed the camaraderie, too. Didn't realize ILDS communication was by social media these days!

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On May 26, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I would venture one:
> 
> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can find the ILDS Twitter feed here:
> 
> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
> 
> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation and camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. Can the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring excitement and joie de vivre back into the organization?
> 
> Cheers - Ken
> 
> 
>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>> Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message. As a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there is a rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!
>> 
>> Can someone please clarify?
>> 
>> Marc Piel
>> 
>> Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>> Hi Bruce and Ken, 
>>> 
>>> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we can see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver. 
>>> 
>>> The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past presidents are also ex-officio members): 
>>> 
>>> Linda Rashidi - President 
>>> James Clawson - Vice President 
>>> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer 
>>> 
>>> At-large: 
>>> Charles Sligh 
>>> Pamela Francis 
>>> Corinne Alexandre-Garner 
>>> 
>>> I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my" board for the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable. 
>>> 
>>> All best, 
>>> James 
>>> 
>>>> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:       
>>>> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to 
>>>> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the 
>>>> next president? Congratulations Anne! 
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big fan 
>>>> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!) and 
>>>> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS 
>>>> e-mails and read every one. 
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers - Ken 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC. 
>>>>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted the 
>>>>     conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and 
>>>>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.  I 
>>>>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address.  It is 
>>>>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string 
>>>>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of 
>>>>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to 
>>>>     Merrianne Timko. 
>>>> 
>>>>     Best wishes, 
>>>> 
>>>>     Bruce 
>>>> 
>>>>     _______________________________________________ 
>>>>     ILDS mailing list 
>>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> 
>>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>>> ILDS mailing list 
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca 
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>> ILDS mailing list 
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca 
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Tue May 27 06:36:01 2014
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 15:36:01 +0200
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <538494C1.9050604@marcpiel.fr>

This is the message I sent back to Ken:


Hello Ken,
I had not received an answer to my post, which I 
suppose in itself was an answer!!!!

I agree with what you say!
BR
Marc


Le 27/05/14 15:26, William Apt a ?crit :
> I agree. I don't do Facebook or Twitter and, for 
> a couple of years now, have noticed virtually no 
> activity on the listserv, so had no idea what 
> was going on. Just assumed an absence of 
> activity. Very much missed the camaraderie, too. 
> Didn't realize ILDS communication was by social 
> media these days!
>
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
>
> On May 26, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Kennedy Gammage 
> <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com 
> <mailto:gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your 
>> question so I thought I would venture one:
>>
>> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 
>> 'listserv' - and we also mentioned Twitter, 
>> which is a worldwide social media platform. You 
>> can find the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>>
>> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on 
>> Twitter. However, I don't think either Twitter 
>> or Facebook has been able to replace the 
>> conversation and camaraderie that first 
>> attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. 
>> Can the new officers please address this: what 
>> can we do to bring excitement and joie de vivre 
>> back into the organization?
>>
>> Cheers - Ken
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel 
>> <marc at marcpiel.fr <mailto:marc at marcpiel.fr>> wrote:
>>
>>     Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists
>>     mentionned in this message. As a
>>     subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard
>>     of this. surely there is a rupture in
>>     communications somewhere or maybe it is
>>     volontary!!!!
>>
>>     Can someone please clarify?
>>
>>     Marc Piel
>>
>>     Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>>     Hi Bruce and Ken,
>>>
>>>     The conference was a pleasure to host, and
>>>     I have to give thanks to FDU-Vancouver for
>>>     the generous use of the facilities.  I
>>>     also hope we can see both Twitter and the
>>>     listserv being useful, which I think was
>>>     the expressed desire of the membership in
>>>     Vancouver.
>>>
>>>     The membership unanimously approved the
>>>     nominations committee's recommended slate
>>>     of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all
>>>     past presidents are also ex-officio members):
>>>
>>>     Linda Rashidi - President
>>>     James Clawson - Vice President
>>>     Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>>>
>>>     At-large:
>>>     Charles Sligh
>>>     Pamela Francis
>>>     Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>>>
>>>     I'll let the incoming board make the
>>>     official announcement to the membership
>>>     directly, but I do want to extend my
>>>     thanks to everyone who served on the
>>>     nominations committee and who formed a
>>>     part of "my" board for the past four years
>>>     -- thank-you all.  Your help was
>>>     immeasurable.
>>>
>>>     All best,
>>>     James
>>>
>>>     On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage
>>>     wrote:
>>>>     Very good Bruce - I wish I could have
>>>>     been there. Best wishes to
>>>>     everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear
>>>>     correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the
>>>>     next president? Congratulations Anne!
>>>>
>>>>     I would like to see more communication
>>>>     via this listserv. I am a big fan
>>>>     of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all
>>>>     the time (to say the least!) and
>>>>     it's very easy to miss individual tweets.
>>>>     I never miss these ILDS
>>>>     e-mails and read every one.
>>>>
>>>>     Cheers - Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce
>>>>     Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>
>>>>     <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>
>>>>     <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         My compliments to the organizers of
>>>>     OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC.
>>>>           Much credit goes to James Gifford,
>>>>     whose campus at FDU hosted the
>>>>         conference.  I found the proceedings
>>>>     both enlightening and
>>>>         enjoyable.  All the speakers and
>>>>     presenters did an excellent job.  I
>>>>         especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's
>>>>     keynote address.  It is
>>>>         particularly enjoyable to think of
>>>>     the /Quartet/ as a string
>>>>         quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and
>>>>     to think about the source of
>>>>         Durrell's recipes of French cuisine
>>>>     in the /Quintet,/ thanks to
>>>>         Merrianne Timko.
>>>>
>>>>         Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>         Bruce
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>         ILDS mailing list
>>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>     <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>     <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>     <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>     ILDS mailing list
>>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>     <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>     ILDS mailing list
>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>     <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     ILDS mailing list
>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From sumantranag at gmail.com  Tue May 27 08:26:03 2014
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 20:56:03 +0530
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+5jupRT4fxOghgBjrqTcGvTKd7Sy92YCV-y23pzA+Rut1K=-w@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think the ILDS can ever regain its rich, often focussed exchanges
any more if it it uses Facebook or Twitter. I use both but don't regard
them as vehicles  for the kind of discursive discussions we had - but have
no longer had for a long time - on the ILDS Discussion Forum.

Sumantra Nag

Sent from my Samsung Tablet
On 27 May 2014 20:25, "William Apt" <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree. I don't do Facebook or Twitter and, for a couple of years now,
> have noticed virtually no activity on the listserv, so had no idea what was
> going on. Just assumed an absence of activity. Very much missed the
> camaraderie, too. Didn't realize ILDS communication was by social media
> these days!
>
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
>
> On May 26, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I would
> venture one:
>
> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also
> mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can find
> the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>
> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>
> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think
> either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation and
> camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. Can
> the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring excitement
> and joie de vivre back into the organization?
>
> Cheers - Ken
>
>
> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>
>>  Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message. As
>> a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there is a
>> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!
>>
>> Can someone please clarify?
>>
>> Marc Piel
>>
>>  Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>
>> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>>
>> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to
>> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we can
>> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the
>> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>>
>> The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's
>> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past presidents
>> are also ex-officio members):
>>
>> Linda Rashidi - President
>> James Clawson - Vice President
>> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>>
>> At-large:
>> Charles Sligh
>> Pamela Francis
>> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>>
>> I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the
>> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who
>> served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my" board for
>> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable.
>>
>> All best,
>> James
>>
>> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>>
>> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to
>> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the
>> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>>
>> I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big fan
>> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!) and
>> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS
>> e-mails and read every one.
>>
>> Cheers - Ken
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC.
>>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted the
>>     conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and
>>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.  I
>>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address.  It is
>>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string
>>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of
>>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to
>>     Merrianne Timko.
>>
>>     Best wishes,
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     ILDS mailing list
>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> <ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
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From sumantranag at gmail.com  Thu May 29 10:40:09 2014
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 23:10:09 +0530
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <CA+5jupRT4fxOghgBjrqTcGvTKd7Sy92YCV-y23pzA+Rut1K=-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com>	<538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>	<915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>
	<CA+5jupRT4fxOghgBjrqTcGvTKd7Sy92YCV-y23pzA+Rut1K=-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e401cf7b65$0c02fef0$2408fcd0$@gmail.com>

The last I heard was that this post was awaiting Moderator Approval! Has the post been put on ILDS?

 

Sumantra

 

From: Sumantra Nag [mailto:sumantranag at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:56 PM
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Cc: gifford at fdu.edu; Marc Paris
Subject: Re: [ilds] OMG XVIII

 

I don't think the ILDS can ever regain its rich, often focussed exchanges any more if it it uses Facebook or Twitter. I use both but don't regard them as vehicles  for the kind of discursive discussions we had - but have no longer had for a long time - on the ILDS Discussion Forum. 

Sumantra Nag

Sent from my Samsung Tablet

On 27 May 2014 20:25, "William Apt" <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:

I agree. I don't do Facebook or Twitter and, for a couple of years now, have noticed virtually no activity on the listserv, so had no idea what was going on. Just assumed an absence of activity. Very much missed the camaraderie, too. Didn't realize ILDS communication was by social media these days!

WILLIAM APT

Attorney at Law

812 San Antonio St, Ste 401

Austin TX 78701

512/708-8300

512/708-8011 FAX


On May 26, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I would venture one:

 

This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can find the ILDS Twitter feed here:

 

https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety

 

and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation and camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. Can the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring excitement and joie de vivre back into the organization?

 

Cheers - Ken

 

On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:

Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message. As a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there is a rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!

Can someone please clarify?

Marc Piel

Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :

Hi Bruce and Ken, 

The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we can see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver. 

The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past presidents are also ex-officio members): 

Linda Rashidi - President 
James Clawson - Vice President 
Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer 

At-large: 
Charles Sligh 
Pamela Francis 
Corinne Alexandre-Garner 

I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my" board for the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable. 

All best, 
James 

On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote: 



Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to 
everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the 
next president? Congratulations Anne! 

I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big fan 
of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!) and 
it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS 
e-mails and read every one. 

Cheers - Ken 


On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com 
 <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote: 

    My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC. 
      Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted the 
    conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and 
    enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.  I 
    especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address.  It is 
    particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string 
    quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of 
    Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to 
    Merrianne Timko. 

    Best wishes, 

    Bruce 

    _______________________________________________ 
    ILDS mailing list 
    ILDS at lists.uvic.ca  <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> 
    https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds 




_______________________________________________ 
ILDS mailing list 
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca 
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds 

_______________________________________________ 
ILDS mailing list 
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca 
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds 

 


_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

 

_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 02:51:50 2014
From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 02:51:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
Message-ID: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

For the past 45 years I have for some unimaginable reason overlooked the fact that in Tunc?Hippolyta's country house is named 'Naos', which in classical Greek means 'temple' or 'dwelling of a god' and, in modern Greek, 'temple' or in current usage 'church'. Does anyone have any comment on the significance of this name in this context?
Richard Pine
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From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com  Fri May 30 07:58:08 2014
From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 07:58:08 -0700
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <00e401cf7b65$0c02fef0$2408fcd0$@gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>
	<CA+5jupRT4fxOghgBjrqTcGvTKd7Sy92YCV-y23pzA+Rut1K=-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<00e401cf7b65$0c02fef0$2408fcd0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANDhJnRZkCYBxvNahSSyVNpMX_Pa7ZPUFJrBH+iMyqvrCN07MA@mail.gmail.com>

Sumantra, yes we did see it. It's my understanding that, for some technical
reason, the poster no longer sees his or her post on the ILDS listserv.
Which is obviously less than ideal, and probably has served to suppress
interactivity.

After the above messages from Marc and Sumantra and Billy, I was hoping to
hear from Linda Rashidi, the incoming president of the ILDS. A little
communication from the leaders of the organization to the dues-paying
members would be welcome.

Thanks - Ken


On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The last I heard was that this post was awaiting Moderator Approval! Has
> the post been put on ILDS?
>
>
>
> Sumantra
>
>
>
> *From:* Sumantra Nag [mailto:sumantranag at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:56 PM
> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> *Cc:* gifford at fdu.edu; Marc Paris
> *Subject:* Re: [ilds] OMG XVIII
>
>
>
> I don't think the ILDS can ever regain its rich, often focussed exchanges
> any more if it it uses Facebook or Twitter. I use both but don't regard
> them as vehicles  for the kind of discursive discussions we had - but have
> no longer had for a long time - on the ILDS Discussion Forum.
>
> Sumantra Nag
>
> Sent from my Samsung Tablet
>
> On 27 May 2014 20:25, "William Apt" <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree. I don't do Facebook or Twitter and, for a couple of years now,
> have noticed virtually no activity on the listserv, so had no idea what was
> going on. Just assumed an absence of activity. Very much missed the
> camaraderie, too. Didn't realize ILDS communication was by social media
> these days!
>
> WILLIAM APT
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>
> Austin TX 78701
>
> 512/708-8300
>
> 512/708-8011 FAX
>
>
> On May 26, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I would
> venture one:
>
>
>
> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also
> mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can find
> the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>
>
>
> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think
> either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation and
> camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. Can
> the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring excitement
> and joie de vivre back into the organization?
>
>
>
> Cheers - Ken
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>
> Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message. As a
> subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there is a
> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!
>
> Can someone please clarify?
>
> Marc Piel
>
> Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>
> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>
> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to
> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we can
> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the
> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>
> The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's
> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past presidents
> are also ex-officio members):
>
> Linda Rashidi - President
> James Clawson - Vice President
> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>
> At-large:
> Charles Sligh
> Pamela Francis
> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>
> I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the
> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who
> served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my" board for
> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable.
>
> All best,
> James
>
> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>
> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to
> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the
> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>
> I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big fan
> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!) and
> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS
> e-mails and read every one.
>
> Cheers - Ken
>
>
> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC.
>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted the
>     conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and
>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.  I
>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address.  It is
>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string
>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of
>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to
>     Merrianne Timko.
>
>     Best wishes,
>
>     Bruce
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     ILDS mailing list
>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> <ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 30 09:15:03 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 09:15:03 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>

Very good question.  But I can't answer ? I haven't read Revolt!  I will say, however, that Durrell's allusions (or maybe symbols, in this case) are rarely, if ever, casual.  They are there for some very good reason.

Bruce



On May 30, 2014, at 2:51 AM, Richard Pine <rpinecorfu at yahoo.com> wrote:

> For the past 45 years I have for some unimaginable reason overlooked the fact that in Tunc Hippolyta's country house is named 'Naos', which in classical Greek means 'temple' or 'dwelling of a god' and, in modern Greek, 'temple' or in current usage 'church'. Does anyone have any comment on the significance of this name in this context?
> Richard Pine
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From sumantranag at gmail.com  Fri May 30 10:44:45 2014
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 23:14:45 +0530
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+5jupQ8iQhHmQ8bnPphwu_XD=4b8OC2WmuHzk8svm4GvrV6BQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the response Ken, and for the clarification you have provided.

How can you interact at all if your post is not seen on ILDS when it
appears? Surely the technical hitch causing this absence of the post in the
sender's view can be solved.

Sumantra

Sent from my Samsung Tablet
On 27 May 2014 10:28, "Kennedy Gammage" <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I would
> venture one:
>
> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also
> mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can find
> the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>
> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>
> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think
> either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation and
> camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. Can
> the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring excitement
> and joie de vivre back into the organization?
>
> Cheers - Ken
>
>
> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>
>>  Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message. As
>> a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there is a
>> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!
>>
>> Can someone please clarify?
>>
>> Marc Piel
>>
>>  Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>
>> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>>
>> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to
>> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we can
>> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the
>> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>>
>> The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's
>> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past presidents
>> are also ex-officio members):
>>
>> Linda Rashidi - President
>> James Clawson - Vice President
>> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>>
>> At-large:
>> Charles Sligh
>> Pamela Francis
>> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>>
>> I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the
>> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who
>> served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my" board for
>> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable.
>>
>> All best,
>> James
>>
>> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>>
>> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to
>> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the
>> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>>
>> I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big fan
>> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!) and
>> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS
>> e-mails and read every one.
>>
>> Cheers - Ken
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC.
>>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted the
>>     conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and
>>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.  I
>>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address.  It is
>>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string
>>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of
>>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to
>>     Merrianne Timko.
>>
>>     Best wishes,
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     ILDS mailing list
>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> <ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
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From gifford at fdu.edu  Fri May 30 10:59:09 2014
From: gifford at fdu.edu (Gifford, James)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 10:59:09 -0700
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <CA+5jupQ8iQhHmQ8bnPphwu_XD=4b8OC2WmuHzk8svm4GvrV6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+5jupQ8iQhHmQ8bnPphwu_XD=4b8OC2WmuHzk8svm4GvrV6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-20211782@be1.fdu.edu>

Hello Sumantra,

I've added an automated response for posters to receive 
when their message is sent out -- we keep the list 
moderated to reduce spam, so any delays in posting are 
based on our time zone differences, transit, and the usual 
human exigencies!

I've sent Linda Rashidi a note as well.  I'm at the start 
of term and just back from a conference, so I'm playing 
catch-up myself.

Best to you all,
James

On Fri, 30 May 2014 23:14:45 +0530
  Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the response Ken, and for the clarification 
>you have provided.
> 
> How can you interact at all if your post is not seen on 
>ILDS when it
> appears? Surely the technical hitch causing this absence 
>of the post in the
> sender's view can be solved.
> 
> Sumantra
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Tablet
> On 27 May 2014 10:28, "Kennedy Gammage" 
><gammage.kennedy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so 
>>I thought I would
>> venture one:
>>
>> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' 
>>- and we also
>> mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media 
>>platform. You can find
>> the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>>
>> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. 
>>However, I don't think
>> either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the 
>>conversation and
>> camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the 
>>old listserv. Can
>> the new officers please address this: what can we do to 
>>bring excitement
>> and joie de vivre back into the organization?
>>
>> Cheers - Ken
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel 
>><marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>>
>>>  Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in 
>>>this message. As
>>> a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. 
>>>surely there is a
>>> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is 
>>>volontary!!!!
>>>
>>> Can someone please clarify?
>>>
>>> Marc Piel
>>>
>>>  Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>>
>>> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>>>
>>> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to 
>>>give thanks to
>>> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I 
>>>also hope we can
>>> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I 
>>>think was the
>>> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>>>
>>> The membership unanimously approved the nominations 
>>>committee's
>>> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and 
>>>all past presidents
>>> are also ex-officio members):
>>>
>>> Linda Rashidi - President
>>> James Clawson - Vice President
>>> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>>>
>>> At-large:
>>> Charles Sligh
>>> Pamela Francis
>>> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>>>
>>> I'll let the incoming board make the official 
>>>announcement to the
>>> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks 
>>>to everyone who
>>> served on the nominations committee and who formed a 
>>>part of "my" board for
>>> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was 
>>>immeasurable.
>>>
>>> All best,
>>> James
>>>
>>> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>>>
>>> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best 
>>>wishes to
>>> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne 
>>>Zahlan will be the
>>> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>>>
>>> I would like to see more communication via this 
>>>listserv. I am a big fan
>>> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say 
>>>the least!) and
>>> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss 
>>>these ILDS
>>> e-mails and read every one.
>>>
>>> Cheers - Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine 
>>><bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> 
>>><bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in 
>>>Vancouver, BC.
>>>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at 
>>>FDU hosted the
>>>     conference.  I found the proceedings both 
>>>enlightening and
>>>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an 
>>>excellent job.  I
>>>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address. 
>>> It is
>>>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as 
>>>a string
>>>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about 
>>>the source of
>>>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the 
>>>/Quintet,/ thanks to
>>>     Merrianne Timko.
>>>
>>>     Best wishes,
>>>
>>>     Bruce
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     ILDS mailing list
>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> 
>>><ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>


From sumantranag at gmail.com  Fri May 30 11:16:08 2014
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 23:46:08 +0530
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <web-20211782@be1.fdu.edu>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+5jupQ8iQhHmQ8bnPphwu_XD=4b8OC2WmuHzk8svm4GvrV6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<web-20211782@be1.fdu.edu>
Message-ID: <CA+5jupTodFfC07MdYNMAOz=BibwCR08L50AxuVzqpKZAKziu2g@mail.gmail.com>

James,

Thanks for your reply but I don't think the final post is appearing before
the sender at all. If it was, I would have seen it by now.

Best wishes

Sumantra

Sent from my Samsung Tablet
On 30 May 2014 23:30, "Gifford, James" <gifford at fdu.edu> wrote:

> Hello Sumantra,
>
> I've added an automated response for posters to receive when their message
> is sent out -- we keep the list moderated to reduce spam, so any delays in
> posting are based on our time zone differences, transit, and the usual
> human exigencies!
>
> I've sent Linda Rashidi a note as well.  I'm at the start of term and just
> back from a conference, so I'm playing catch-up myself.
>
> Best to you all,
> James
>
> On Fri, 30 May 2014 23:14:45 +0530
>  Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the response Ken, and for the clarification you have provided.
>>
>> How can you interact at all if your post is not seen on ILDS when it
>> appears? Surely the technical hitch causing this absence of the post in
>> the
>> sender's view can be solved.
>>
>> Sumantra
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Tablet
>> On 27 May 2014 10:28, "Kennedy Gammage" <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I would
>>> venture one:
>>>
>>> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also
>>> mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can
>>> find
>>> the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>>>
>>> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think
>>> either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation and
>>> camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv. Can
>>> the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring excitement
>>> and joie de vivre back into the organization?
>>>
>>> Cheers - Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message. As
>>>> a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there is a
>>>> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Can someone please clarify?
>>>>
>>>> Marc Piel
>>>>
>>>>  Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>>>>
>>>> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to
>>>> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we
>>>> can
>>>> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the
>>>> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>>>>
>>>> The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's
>>>> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past
>>>> presidents
>>>> are also ex-officio members):
>>>>
>>>> Linda Rashidi - President
>>>> James Clawson - Vice President
>>>> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>>>>
>>>> At-large:
>>>> Charles Sligh
>>>> Pamela Francis
>>>> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>>>>
>>>> I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the
>>>> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who
>>>> served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my" board
>>>> for
>>>> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable.
>>>>
>>>> All best,
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to
>>>> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be the
>>>> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>>>>
>>>> I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big fan
>>>> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!) and
>>>> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS
>>>> e-mails and read every one.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers - Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC.
>>>>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted the
>>>>     conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and
>>>>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.  I
>>>>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address. It is
>>>>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string
>>>>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of
>>>>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to
>>>>     Merrianne Timko.
>>>>
>>>>     Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>     Bruce
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     ILDS mailing list
>>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> <ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From gifford at fdu.edu  Fri May 30 11:23:02 2014
From: gifford at fdu.edu (Gifford, James)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 11:23:02 -0700
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <CA+5jupTodFfC07MdYNMAOz=BibwCR08L50AxuVzqpKZAKziu2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+5jupQ8iQhHmQ8bnPphwu_XD=4b8OC2WmuHzk8svm4GvrV6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<web-20211782@be1.fdu.edu>
	<CA+5jupTodFfC07MdYNMAOz=BibwCR08L50AxuVzqpKZAKziu2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-20211917@be1.fdu.edu>

Hi Sumantra,

You'll still have the copy in your sent folder, and you'll 
receive a note when it's posted, but the list 
automatically (without any option for me to change it) 
does not send a copy of your own message to you -- that 
said, it will still be in the digest form and in the 
archive, so you can be sure it was sent.  It's for all 
messages going forward, not retroactively.

For you (and anyone else with interest), the listserv 
archive is accessible through the ILDS website:

http://www.lawrencedurrell.org

Just look to the right side vertical bar area.

All best,
James

On Fri, 30 May 2014 23:46:08 +0530
  Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com> wrote:
> James,
> 
> Thanks for your reply but I don't think the final post 
>is appearing before
> the sender at all. If it was, I would have seen it by 
>now.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Sumantra
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Tablet
> On 30 May 2014 23:30, "Gifford, James" <gifford at fdu.edu> 
>wrote:
> 
>> Hello Sumantra,
>>
>> I've added an automated response for posters to receive 
>>when their message
>> is sent out -- we keep the list moderated to reduce 
>>spam, so any delays in
>> posting are based on our time zone differences, transit, 
>>and the usual
>> human exigencies!
>>
>> I've sent Linda Rashidi a note as well.  I'm at the 
>>start of term and just
>> back from a conference, so I'm playing catch-up myself.
>>
>> Best to you all,
>> James
>>
>> On Fri, 30 May 2014 23:14:45 +0530
>>  Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the response Ken, and for the clarification 
>>>you have provided.
>>>
>>> How can you interact at all if your post is not seen on 
>>>ILDS when it
>>> appears? Surely the technical hitch causing this absence 
>>>of the post in
>>> the
>>> sender's view can be solved.
>>>
>>> Sumantra
>>>
>>> Sent from my Samsung Tablet
>>> On 27 May 2014 10:28, "Kennedy Gammage" 
>>><gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so 
>>>I thought I would
>>>> venture one:
>>>>
>>>> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' 
>>>>- and we also
>>>> mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media 
>>>>platform. You can
>>>> find
>>>> the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>>>>
>>>> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. 
>>>>However, I don't think
>>>> either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the 
>>>>conversation and
>>>> camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the 
>>>>old listserv. Can
>>>> the new officers please address this: what can we do to 
>>>>bring excitement
>>>> and joie de vivre back into the organization?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers - Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel 
>>>><marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in 
>>>>this message. As
>>>>> a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. 
>>>>>surely there is a
>>>>> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is 
>>>>>volontary!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Can someone please clarify?
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Piel
>>>>>
>>>>>  Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>>>>>
>>>>> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to 
>>>>>give thanks to
>>>>> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I 
>>>>>also hope we
>>>>> can
>>>>> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I 
>>>>>think was the
>>>>> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>>>>>
>>>>> The membership unanimously approved the nominations 
>>>>>committee's
>>>>> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and 
>>>>>all past
>>>>> presidents
>>>>> are also ex-officio members):
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda Rashidi - President
>>>>> James Clawson - Vice President
>>>>> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>>>>>
>>>>> At-large:
>>>>> Charles Sligh
>>>>> Pamela Francis
>>>>> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll let the incoming board make the official 
>>>>>announcement to the
>>>>> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks 
>>>>>to everyone who
>>>>> served on the nominations committee and who formed a 
>>>>>part of "my" board
>>>>> for
>>>>> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was 
>>>>>immeasurable.
>>>>>
>>>>> All best,
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best 
>>>>>wishes to
>>>>> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne 
>>>>>Zahlan will be the
>>>>> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to see more communication via this 
>>>>>listserv. I am a big fan
>>>>> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say 
>>>>>the least!) and
>>>>> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss 
>>>>>these ILDS
>>>>> e-mails and read every one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers - Ken
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine 
>>>>><bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> 
>>>>><bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in 
>>>>>Vancouver, BC.
>>>>>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at 
>>>>>FDU hosted the
>>>>>     conference.  I found the proceedings both 
>>>>>enlightening and
>>>>>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an 
>>>>>excellent job.  I
>>>>>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address. 
>>>>>It is
>>>>>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as 
>>>>>a string
>>>>>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about 
>>>>>the source of
>>>>>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the 
>>>>>/Quintet,/ thanks to
>>>>>     Merrianne Timko.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Bruce
>>>>>
>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>     ILDS mailing list
>>>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> 
>>>>><ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 30 11:23:18 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 11:23:18 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>

Richard,

Fascinating problem!  I ran a key-word search on naos.  My i-Book library of Durrell's oeuvre is not complete, but I find the word appearing only in Revolt (with numerous references).  I do not have The Greek Islands in electronic format.  The word might appear there, given the many descriptions of Greek ruins.  But Durrell does not use it in Sicilian Carousel, which also has many ruins.  So, let's assume LD used naos in one context.  That would argue for some special significance.  Naos is very interesting.  It is a technical term used frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost part of a temple, the sanctum sanctorum, the holy of holies.

Bruce




On May 30, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Very good question.  But I can't answer ? I haven't read Revolt!  I will say, however, that Durrell's allusions (or maybe symbols, in this case) are rarely, if ever, casual.  They are there for some very good reason.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> On May 30, 2014, at 2:51 AM, Richard Pine <rpinecorfu at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> For the past 45 years I have for some unimaginable reason overlooked the fact that in Tunc Hippolyta's country house is named 'Naos', which in classical Greek means 'temple' or 'dwelling of a god' and, in modern Greek, 'temple' or in current usage 'church'. Does anyone have any comment on the significance of this name in this context?
>> Richard Pine
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 

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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Fri May 30 11:57:37 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 11:57:37 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>
	<ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>

> /Naos/ is very interesting.  It is a technical term used
> frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean
> archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost
> part of a temple, the /sanctum sanctorum,/ the holy of holies.
>
> Bruce

Which is, of course, where that book series peaks in London...  St. 
Paul's, with a "magic circle" and Fall (LD's capitalization).  /Nunquam/ 
is replete with references to corporatism and faith, with the 
distinction between the two frequently elided.  Even before the closing 
scene in St. Paul's, Durrell hints at the magic circle element and money:

"It [St. Paul's] was built by a great artificer in conscious pursuit of 
mathematical principles; it was not a dream of godhead full of poetry or 
frozen music or what not. No, it belonged to its age; it was a fitting 
symbol for a mercantile country in an age dedicated to reason, hovering 
on the edge of the Encyclopaedia and the Industrial Revolution. It is no 
accident that the business part of the city, the moneyed part, grouped 
itself round this great symbol of the stock and share. Nor is it an 
accident that it should in some ways feel strongly reminiscent of a 
railway station?say Euston or Waterloo. It stands as a symbol for the 
succeeding ages which produced both." (Nunquam 214)

Faith and funds are manifestations of the same impulse, in effect, and 
it circles around Durrell's preoccupation with urbanization and the 
conditions of modernity, I would think.  The faith-funds link comes up 
again and again across /Nunquam/:

"My dear chap, in this, our new Middle Ages, investment has become the 
motor response of all religion; not in God as he was known (he hasn?t 
changed), not in the psychic Fund of Funds which pretends to chime with 
the ways of universal nature. (That too is balls by the way.) No, for us 
money is sperm, and the investment of it the ritual of propitiation." 
(Nunquam 94)

To this Durrell adds the chain's link:

?The pattern is only repeating itself; we have placed an unobtrusive 
hand on much more than the Stock Exchange. Most of the Indian holy 
places like the Taj and Buddha?s tree and so on are in our hands; the 
Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, Herculaneum, Pompeii, Grant?s Tomb." 
(Nunquam 94)

The last item is striking, taking in as it does the nation as a 
continuation of the religious impulse.  The same idea repeats several 
times across Nunquam in particular.

Cheers,
James

From gammage.kennedy at gmail.com  Fri May 30 12:16:03 2014
From: gammage.kennedy at gmail.com (Kennedy Gammage)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 12:16:03 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>
	<ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>
	<5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANDhJnSvixKz6rmMsXUbK=SLand=QqPTtCBE69b9r-WyN2YmFw@mail.gmail.com>

Bravo James ? that?s why the listserv is so vital to our ongoing
discussions! What would be the Twitter equivalent of your post?

?St. Paul?s = Paddington. ? = jizm. #Hippo!?

Cheers - Ken



On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:57 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
wrote:

> /Naos/ is very interesting.  It is a technical term used
>>
>> frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean
>> archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost
>> part of a temple, the /sanctum sanctorum,/ the holy of holies.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>
> Which is, of course, where that book series peaks in London...  St.
> Paul's, with a "magic circle" and Fall (LD's capitalization).  /Nunquam/ is
> replete with references to corporatism and faith, with the distinction
> between the two frequently elided.  Even before the closing scene in St.
> Paul's, Durrell hints at the magic circle element and money:
>
> "It [St. Paul's] was built by a great artificer in conscious pursuit of
> mathematical principles; it was not a dream of godhead full of poetry or
> frozen music or what not. No, it belonged to its age; it was a fitting
> symbol for a mercantile country in an age dedicated to reason, hovering on
> the edge of the Encyclopaedia and the Industrial Revolution. It is no
> accident that the business part of the city, the moneyed part, grouped
> itself round this great symbol of the stock and share. Nor is it an
> accident that it should in some ways feel strongly reminiscent of a railway
> station?say Euston or Waterloo. It stands as a symbol for the succeeding
> ages which produced both." (Nunquam 214)
>
> Faith and funds are manifestations of the same impulse, in effect, and it
> circles around Durrell's preoccupation with urbanization and the conditions
> of modernity, I would think.  The faith-funds link comes up again and again
> across /Nunquam/:
>
> "My dear chap, in this, our new Middle Ages, investment has become the
> motor response of all religion; not in God as he was known (he hasn?t
> changed), not in the psychic Fund of Funds which pretends to chime with the
> ways of universal nature. (That too is balls by the way.) No, for us money
> is sperm, and the investment of it the ritual of propitiation." (Nunquam 94)
>
> To this Durrell adds the chain's link:
>
> ?The pattern is only repeating itself; we have placed an unobtrusive hand
> on much more than the Stock Exchange. Most of the Indian holy places like
> the Taj and Buddha?s tree and so on are in our hands; the Holy Sepulchre in
> Jerusalem, Herculaneum, Pompeii, Grant?s Tomb." (Nunquam 94)
>
> The last item is striking, taking in as it does the nation as a
> continuation of the religious impulse.  The same idea repeats several times
> across Nunquam in particular.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Fri May 30 12:33:59 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 12:33:59 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <CANDhJnSvixKz6rmMsXUbK=SLand=QqPTtCBE69b9r-WyN2YmFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>	<ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>	<5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnSvixKz6rmMsXUbK=SLand=QqPTtCBE69b9r-WyN2YmFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5388DD27.8030109@gmail.com>

On 2014-05-30, 12:16 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
> What would be the Twitter equivalent of your post?
>
> ?St. Paul?s = Paddington. ? = jizm. #Hippo!?

Just about perfect there, Ken... @DurrellSociety

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 30 14:00:55 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 14:00:55 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>
	<ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>
	<5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33D640C5-8ECD-4AF4-A70F-764DA1314D6F@earthlink.net>

James and Richard,

All very interesting.  Thanks.  I'll have to put Revolt of Aphrodite on my reading list.  One more thing about naos in the context of Aphrodite, goddess of love.  Naos, particularly when talking about the architecture of ancient Egyptian temples, has a strong sexual component.  Egyptologist tend to look at the typical temple as a long progression from light to darkness, as the passage narrows and becomes smaller.  The innermost part is the holy of holies, where the god resides in near darkness.  The vision is vaginal.  Hence the term penetralium (< penetralis, penetrating) for the holy of holies.  This isn't interpreted as the Egyptians having "dirty minds," rather the sexual trope is seen as a from of regeneration and resurrection.  The ancient Egyptians were obsessed with the afterlife and getting there.  So, the sexual metaphor is a way to view rebirth.  Dunno how this applies to Revolt and dunno to what extent Durrell was aware of all this.

Bruce




On May 30, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:

>> /Naos/ is very interesting.  It is a technical term used
>> frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean
>> archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost
>> part of a temple, the /sanctum sanctorum,/ the holy of holies.
>> 
>> Bruce
> 
> Which is, of course, where that book series peaks in London...  St. Paul's, with a "magic circle" and Fall (LD's capitalization).  /Nunquam/ is replete with references to corporatism and faith, with the distinction between the two frequently elided.  Even before the closing scene in St. Paul's, Durrell hints at the magic circle element and money:
> 
> "It [St. Paul's] was built by a great artificer in conscious pursuit of mathematical principles; it was not a dream of godhead full of poetry or frozen music or what not. No, it belonged to its age; it was a fitting symbol for a mercantile country in an age dedicated to reason, hovering on the edge of the Encyclopaedia and the Industrial Revolution. It is no accident that the business part of the city, the moneyed part, grouped itself round this great symbol of the stock and share. Nor is it an accident that it should in some ways feel strongly reminiscent of a railway station?say Euston or Waterloo. It stands as a symbol for the succeeding ages which produced both." (Nunquam 214)
> 
> Faith and funds are manifestations of the same impulse, in effect, and it circles around Durrell's preoccupation with urbanization and the conditions of modernity, I would think.  The faith-funds link comes up again and again across /Nunquam/:
> 
> "My dear chap, in this, our new Middle Ages, investment has become the motor response of all religion; not in God as he was known (he hasn?t changed), not in the psychic Fund of Funds which pretends to chime with the ways of universal nature. (That too is balls by the way.) No, for us money is sperm, and the investment of it the ritual of propitiation." (Nunquam 94)
> 
> To this Durrell adds the chain's link:
> 
> ?The pattern is only repeating itself; we have placed an unobtrusive hand on much more than the Stock Exchange. Most of the Indian holy places like the Taj and Buddha?s tree and so on are in our hands; the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, Herculaneum, Pompeii, Grant?s Tomb." (Nunquam 94)
> 
> The last item is striking, taking in as it does the nation as a continuation of the religious impulse.  The same idea repeats several times across Nunquam in particular.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Fri May 30 21:12:04 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 21:12:04 -0700
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <CA+5jupRT4fxOghgBjrqTcGvTKd7Sy92YCV-y23pzA+Rut1K=-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com>
	<538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>	<915D57CD-D412-4E81-AF08-B855B3BFE676@gmail.com>
	<CA+5jupRT4fxOghgBjrqTcGvTKd7Sy92YCV-y23pzA+Rut1K=-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53895694.7070305@gmail.com>

Hello all,

On 2014-05-27, 8:26 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote:
> I don't think the ILDS can ever regain its rich, often focussed
> exchanges any more if it it uses Facebook or Twitter. I use both but
> don't regard them as vehicles  for the kind of discursive discussions we
> had - but have no longer had for a long time - on the ILDS Discussion
> Forum.

Well, let's see what we can do.  The membership expressed its desire to 
renew the online activity during the Business Meeting in Vancouver, and 
we'll follow the membership's wishes!

A reality has been that Charles & I have moderated things and prompted a 
good deal of discussion, but we're also both in the "age & stage" with 
children, the uphill career path, and such...  Charles manages the 
Twitter account daily for short materials, and the lengthier (and 
fuller) discussions of the listserv seem to have stilled since London -- 
that is, of course, open to change.

All best,
James

From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Fri May 30 21:14:52 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 21:14:52 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <33D640C5-8ECD-4AF4-A70F-764DA1314D6F@earthlink.net>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>
	<ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>
	<5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>
	<33D640C5-8ECD-4AF4-A70F-764DA1314D6F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5389573C.20609@gmail.com>

Bruce, I think this is very close to what Durrell was after.  He, of 
course, indulges the "dirty mind" element as well, but it's never 
terribly far from the sacred and corporate worlds of the book.  Rebirth 
is an explicit part of it as well.

I've enjoyed the Revolt books very much, despite their lesser status for 
many readers.  You just can't expect them to be look like the Quartet or 
travel books.

Best,
James

On 2014-05-30, 2:00 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> James and Richard,
>
> All very interesting.  Thanks.  I'll have to put /Revolt of Aphrodite/
> on my reading list.  One more thing about /naos/ in the context of
> Aphrodite, goddess of love. /Naos, /particularly when talking about the
> architecture of ancient Egyptian temples, has a strong sexual component.
>   Egyptologist tend to look at the typical temple as a long progression
> from light to darkness, as the passage narrows and becomes smaller.  The
> innermost part is the holy of holies, where the god resides in near
> darkness.  The vision is vaginal.  Hence the term penetralium (<
> /penetralis,/ penetrating) for the holy of holies.  This isn't
> interpreted as the Egyptians having "dirty minds," rather the sexual
> trope is seen as a from of regeneration and resurrection.  The ancient
> Egyptians were obsessed with the afterlife and getting there.  So, the
> sexual metaphor is a way to view rebirth.  Dunno how this applies to
> /Revolt/ and dunno to what extent Durrell was aware of all this.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com
> <mailto:james.d.gifford at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>> /Naos/ is very interesting.  It is a technical term used
>>> frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean
>>> archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost
>>> part of a temple, the /sanctum sanctorum,/ the holy of holies.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>
>> Which is, of course, where that book series peaks in London...  St.
>> Paul's, with a "magic circle" and Fall (LD's capitalization).
>>  /Nunquam/ is replete with references to corporatism and faith, with
>> the distinction between the two frequently elided.  Even before the
>> closing scene in St. Paul's, Durrell hints at the magic circle element
>> and money:
>>
>> "It [St. Paul's] was built by a great artificer in conscious pursuit
>> of mathematical principles; it was not a dream of godhead full of
>> poetry or frozen music or what not. No, it belonged to its age; it was
>> a fitting symbol for a mercantile country in an age dedicated to
>> reason, hovering on the edge of the Encyclopaedia and the Industrial
>> Revolution. It is no accident that the business part of the city, the
>> moneyed part, grouped itself round this great symbol of the stock and
>> share. Nor is it an accident that it should in some ways feel strongly
>> reminiscent of a railway station?say Euston or Waterloo. It stands as
>> a symbol for the succeeding ages which produced both." (Nunquam 214)
>>
>> Faith and funds are manifestations of the same impulse, in effect, and
>> it circles around Durrell's preoccupation with urbanization and the
>> conditions of modernity, I would think.  The faith-funds link comes up
>> again and again across /Nunquam/:
>>
>> "My dear chap, in this, our new Middle Ages, investment has become the
>> motor response of all religion; not in God as he was known (he hasn?t
>> changed), not in the psychic Fund of Funds which pretends to chime
>> with the ways of universal nature. (That too is balls by the way.) No,
>> for us money is sperm, and the investment of it the ritual of
>> propitiation." (Nunquam 94)
>>
>> To this Durrell adds the chain's link:
>>
>> ?The pattern is only repeating itself; we have placed an unobtrusive
>> hand on much more than the Stock Exchange. Most of the Indian holy
>> places like the Taj and Buddha?s tree and so on are in our hands; the
>> Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, Herculaneum, Pompeii, Grant?s Tomb."
>> (Nunquam 94)
>>
>> The last item is striking, taking in as it does the nation as a
>> continuation of the religious impulse.  The same idea repeats several
>> times across Nunquam in particular.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> James
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>

From timlot at comcast.net  Sat May 31 06:31:12 2014
From: timlot at comcast.net (Merrianne)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 08:31:12 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
Message-ID: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>

Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently
published book - The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone,
published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some
controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist
art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer
read. It weaves together many diverse threads - art, literature, gender,
sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique
analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer
as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine. 

 

Included in the chapter "Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites" is a
subchapter titled "The Return of the Repressed in Durrell's Alexandria
Quartet" that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this
chapter cites James Gifford's "The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial
Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell's Monsieur." 

 

Bottom line - this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me,
it provides new insight into the many "textbook" images of orientalism I
have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many "new" contemporary
photographs, paintings, and ideas.

 

Best,

Merrianne Timko

 

 

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sat May 31 08:40:51 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 08:40:51 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>

Merrianne,

Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.

Bruce


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>  
> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>  
> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>  
> Best,
> Merrianne Timko
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From billyapt at gmail.com  Sat May 31 11:26:44 2014
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 13:26:44 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>

Bruce: 

I seem to recall that, according to MacNiven's bio, when LD was confronted with the opportunity for homoerotic encounters while in prep school in England, he realized he was unstimulated by boys. That is typically the hallmark of a heterosexual mindset. Do you have any evidence other than LD's occasional bad behavior toward women that might otherwise support your theory? 

Billy

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On May 31, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Merrianne,
> 
> Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>>  
>> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>>  
>> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>>  
>> Best,
>> Merrianne Timko
>>  
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sat May 31 12:10:08 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 12:10:08 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>
	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>

Billy, thanks for the response.  Any evidence for Durrell's repressed homosexuality?  No, certainly none that would satisfy a court of law.  But to be argumentative, MacNiven bases his biography in part on what Durrell told him, and would you expect Lawrence Durrell to admit homosexual tendencies, especially given the opprobrium attached to such a confession?  (By the way, I don't mean to disparage MacNiven's tremendous work ? I have the greatest respect for what he accomplished.)  My evidence is circumstantial and largely based on Durrell's writings and the prominence of homosexuality as a topic of treatment.  As D. H. Lawrence says, "Never trust the artist.  Trust the tale."  I'm much in line with what Boone writes.  Here, of course, the big objection is what literary critics are fond of making ? namely, don't confuse the author with his or her writings!  There's some validity to this, but I don't always buy the objection and attribute it to the prejudices of New Criticism, whose ideas still linger and influence.  So, I'm saying, as Boone seems to suggest, let's look at Durrell's writings and his obsessions and see where all that leads us.  Finally, remember the lesson of Thomas Mann, author of Death in Venice.  For a long time, Mann's treatment of homosexuality was analyzed as a literary trope (much as Durrell's is).  After all, Mann was an upright German, married with a large family, and no inkling of homosexuality.  But as Anthony Heilbut shows in his biography, Thomas Mann:  Eros and Literature (1996), Mann had repressed homosexual tendencies.  Death in Venice and Gustav von Aschenbach's infatuation with the boy Tadzio is based on Mann's own personal experience.  I see something similar going on with Durrell.

Bruce



On May 31, 2014, at 11:26 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bruce: 
> 
> I seem to recall that, according to MacNiven's bio, when LD was confronted with the opportunity for homoerotic encounters while in prep school in England, he realized he was unstimulated by boys. That is typically the hallmark of a heterosexual mindset. Do you have any evidence other than LD's occasional bad behavior toward women that might otherwise support your theory? 
> 
> Billy
> 
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> 
> On May 31, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Merrianne,
>> 
>> Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>>>  
>>> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>>>  
>>> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>>>  
>>> Best,
>>> Merrianne Timko
>>>  
>>>  
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From delospeter at hotmail.com  Sat May 31 13:24:18 2014
From: delospeter at hotmail.com (PETER BALDWIN)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 20:24:18 +0000
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
 Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>,
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>,
	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>,
	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DUB113-W109CBBC7C514786575E306CC8260@phx.gbl>

This is speculative nonsense and suggests that the Durrell list is best ignored
 
Evidence please, not some fanciful idea along the lines of which led to the scurrilous suggestion that D's interest in incest was evidence of a sexual relationship with Sappho.
 
Desist, please, if this list is to be taken seriously.
 
Peter Baldwin
 
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 12:10:08 -0700
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
CC: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and	Controversial New Book

Billy, thanks for the response.  Any evidence for Durrell's repressed homosexuality?  No, certainly none that would satisfy a court of law.  But to be argumentative, MacNiven bases his biography in part on what Durrell told him, and would you expect Lawrence Durrell to admit homosexual tendencies, especially given the opprobrium attached to such a confession?  (By the way, I don't mean to disparage MacNiven's tremendous work ? I have the greatest respect for what he accomplished.)  My evidence is circumstantial and largely based on Durrell's writings and the prominence of homosexuality as a topic of treatment.  As D. H. Lawrence says, "Never trust the artist.  Trust the tale."  I'm much in line with what Boone writes.  Here, of course, the big objection is what literary critics are fond of making ? namely, don't confuse the author with his or her writings!  There's some validity to this, but I don't always buy the objection and attribute it to the prejudices of New Criticism, whose ideas still linger and influence.  So, I'm saying, as Boone seems to suggest, let's look at Durrell's writings and his obsessions and see where all that leads us.  Finally, remember the lesson of Thomas Mann, author of Death in Venice.  For a long time, Mann's treatment of homosexuality was analyzed as a literary trope (much as Durrell's is).  After all, Mann was an upright German, married with a large family, and no inkling of homosexuality.  But as Anthony Heilbut shows in his biography, Thomas Mann:  Eros and Literature (1996), Mann had repressed homosexual tendencies.  Death in Venice and Gustav von Aschenbach's infatuation with the boy Tadzio is based on Mann's own personal experience.  I see something similar going on with Durrell.
Bruce



On May 31, 2014, at 11:26 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:Bruce: 
I seem to recall that, according to MacNiven's bio, when LD was confronted with the opportunity for homoerotic encounters while in prep school in England, he realized he was unstimulated by boys. That is typically the hallmark of a heterosexual mindset. Do you have any evidence other than LD's occasional bad behavior toward women that might otherwise support your theory? 
Billy

WILLIAM APTAttorney at Law812 San Antonio St, Ste 401Austin TX 78701512/708-8300512/708-8011 FAX
On May 31, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:

Merrianne,
Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.
Bruce

Sent from my iPhone
On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:

Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine. Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.? Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas. Best,Merrianne Timko  _______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From billyapt at gmail.com  Sat May 31 15:36:01 2014
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 17:36:01 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>
	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>
	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>

Well argued, my friend! But don't people tend to gravitate to their own kind? I don't recall there being a great number of homosexuals in LD's inner circle. In fact most were quite straight and anything but asexual. Contrast this with the highly closeted Jack Kerouac, almost all of whose inner circle were gay, despite his life long cultivation of a solid heterosexual public image. 

I'm curious what others, who knew LD, have to say? MacNiven, for example?  What about Haag, having known Eve Cohen so well? 

Finally, LD got involved with some beautiful, sexy women, and had as friends others. If he was gay, he certainly had a great heterosexual picker! 

Finally, trying to decide if LD was gay based only on highly tenuous circumstantial evidence will be as difficult as the attempt to determine if TE Lawrence was gay or just a severely repressed asexual personality. Good luck!

Billy

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On May 31, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Billy, thanks for the response.  Any evidence for Durrell's repressed homosexuality?  No, certainly none that would satisfy a court of law.  But to be argumentative, MacNiven bases his biography in part on what Durrell told him, and would you expect Lawrence Durrell to admit homosexual tendencies, especially given the opprobrium attached to such a confession?  (By the way, I don't mean to disparage MacNiven's tremendous work ? I have the greatest respect for what he accomplished.)  My evidence is circumstantial and largely based on Durrell's writings and the prominence of homosexuality as a topic of treatment.  As D. H. Lawrence says, "Never trust the artist.  Trust the tale."  I'm much in line with what Boone writes.  Here, of course, the big objection is what literary critics are fond of making ? namely, don't confuse the author with his or her writings!  There's some validity to this, but I don't always buy the objection and attribute it to the prejudices of New Criticism, whose ideas still linger and influence.  So, I'm saying, as Boone seems to suggest, let's look at Durrell's writings and his obsessions and see where all that leads us.  Finally, remember the lesson of Thomas Mann, author of Death in Venice.  For a long time, Mann's treatment of homosexuality was analyzed as a literary trope (much as Durrell's is).  After all, Mann was an upright German, married with a large family, and no inkling of homosexuality.  But as Anthony Heilbut shows in his biography, Thomas Mann:  Eros and Literature (1996), Mann had repressed homosexual tendencies.  Death in Venice and Gustav von Aschenbach's infatuation with the boy Tadzio is based on Mann's own personal experience.  I see something similar going on with Durrell.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 31, 2014, at 11:26 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Bruce: 
>> 
>> I seem to recall that, according to MacNiven's bio, when LD was confronted with the opportunity for homoerotic encounters while in prep school in England, he realized he was unstimulated by boys. That is typically the hallmark of a heterosexual mindset. Do you have any evidence other than LD's occasional bad behavior toward women that might otherwise support your theory? 
>> 
>> Billy
>> 
>> WILLIAM APT
>> Attorney at Law
>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>> Austin TX 78701
>> 512/708-8300
>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>> 
>>> On May 31, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Merrianne,
>>> 
>>> Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.
>>> 
>>> Bruce
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>>>>  
>>>> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>>>>  
>>>> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>>>>  
>>>> Best,
>>>> Merrianne Timko
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From lrashidi at mansfield.edu  Sat May 31 15:46:04 2014
From: lrashidi at mansfield.edu (Rashidi, Linda)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 22:46:04 +0000
Subject: [ilds] new Board
Message-ID: <3FBC96E023D7E54AA76EE3FA0EBB4F2B1687BC@ENTXCHMSGP03.PASSHE.LCL>

I want to thank the membership for your vote of confidence in electing the new Board. I feel honored to take on the Presidency, and have a great board to work with for the next two years.  Of course, Jamie has paved the way. A huge thanks to him for his excellent service as president for not one, but two, terms of office--and for keeping the listserve going. I am, at present, feeling my way, so bear with me in these early weeks.  One of goals of the Board is to communicate with the membership in as many ways as possible. I do not Twitter or do Facebook, but am open to all and any suggestions. I hope to soon send out a 'welcome' message introducing the new Board. Keep the great discussions going.

Salam, Linda

Dr. Linda Rashidi
Professor of Linguistics
Department of English and Modern Languages
Mansfield University
email: lrashidi at mansfield.edu

________________________________________
From: ILDS [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] on behalf of ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 3:00 PM
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 85, Issue 5

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Query re 'Tunc' (Kennedy Gammage)
   2. Re: Query re 'Tunc' (James Gifford)
   3. Re: Query re 'Tunc' (Bruce Redwine)
   4. Re: OMG XVIII (James Gifford)
   5. Re: Query re 'Tunc' (James Gifford)
   6. Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
      Controversial New Book (Merrianne)
   7. Re: Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
      Controversial New Book (Bruce Redwine)
   8. Re: Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
      Controversial New Book (William Apt)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 12:16:03 -0700
From: Kennedy Gammage <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>
To: odos.fanourios at gmail.com, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Subject: Re: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
Message-ID:
        <CANDhJnSvixKz6rmMsXUbK=SLand=QqPTtCBE69b9r-WyN2YmFw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Bravo James ? that?s why the listserv is so vital to our ongoing
discussions! What would be the Twitter equivalent of your post?

?St. Paul?s = Paddington. ? = jizm. #Hippo!?

Cheers - Ken



On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:57 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
wrote:

> /Naos/ is very interesting.  It is a technical term used
>>
>> frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean
>> archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost
>> part of a temple, the /sanctum sanctorum,/ the holy of holies.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>
> Which is, of course, where that book series peaks in London...  St.
> Paul's, with a "magic circle" and Fall (LD's capitalization).  /Nunquam/ is
> replete with references to corporatism and faith, with the distinction
> between the two frequently elided.  Even before the closing scene in St.
> Paul's, Durrell hints at the magic circle element and money:
>
> "It [St. Paul's] was built by a great artificer in conscious pursuit of
> mathematical principles; it was not a dream of godhead full of poetry or
> frozen music or what not. No, it belonged to its age; it was a fitting
> symbol for a mercantile country in an age dedicated to reason, hovering on
> the edge of the Encyclopaedia and the Industrial Revolution. It is no
> accident that the business part of the city, the moneyed part, grouped
> itself round this great symbol of the stock and share. Nor is it an
> accident that it should in some ways feel strongly reminiscent of a railway
> station?say Euston or Waterloo. It stands as a symbol for the succeeding
> ages which produced both." (Nunquam 214)
>
> Faith and funds are manifestations of the same impulse, in effect, and it
> circles around Durrell's preoccupation with urbanization and the conditions
> of modernity, I would think.  The faith-funds link comes up again and again
> across /Nunquam/:
>
> "My dear chap, in this, our new Middle Ages, investment has become the
> motor response of all religion; not in God as he was known (he hasn?t
> changed), not in the psychic Fund of Funds which pretends to chime with the
> ways of universal nature. (That too is balls by the way.) No, for us money
> is sperm, and the investment of it the ritual of propitiation." (Nunquam 94)
>
> To this Durrell adds the chain's link:
>
> ?The pattern is only repeating itself; we have placed an unobtrusive hand
> on much more than the Stock Exchange. Most of the Indian holy places like
> the Taj and Buddha?s tree and so on are in our hands; the Holy Sepulchre in
> Jerusalem, Herculaneum, Pompeii, Grant?s Tomb." (Nunquam 94)
>
> The last item is striking, taking in as it does the nation as a
> continuation of the religious impulse.  The same idea repeats several times
> across Nunquam in particular.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 12:33:59 -0700
From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
To: ILDS Listserv <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Subject: Re: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
Message-ID: <5388DD27.8030109 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 2014-05-30, 12:16 PM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
> What would be the Twitter equivalent of your post?
>
> ?St. Paul?s = Paddington. ? = jizm. #Hippo!?

Just about perfect there, Ken... @DurrellSociety


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 14:00:55 -0700
From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: odos.fanourios at gmail.com, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
Message-ID: <33D640C5-8ECD-4AF4-A70F-764DA1314D6F at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

James and Richard,

All very interesting.  Thanks.  I'll have to put Revolt of Aphrodite on my reading list.  One more thing about naos in the context of Aphrodite, goddess of love.  Naos, particularly when talking about the architecture of ancient Egyptian temples, has a strong sexual component.  Egyptologist tend to look at the typical temple as a long progression from light to darkness, as the passage narrows and becomes smaller.  The innermost part is the holy of holies, where the god resides in near darkness.  The vision is vaginal.  Hence the term penetralium (< penetralis, penetrating) for the holy of holies.  This isn't interpreted as the Egyptians having "dirty minds," rather the sexual trope is seen as a from of regeneration and resurrection.  The ancient Egyptians were obsessed with the afterlife and getting there.  So, the sexual metaphor is a way to view rebirth.  Dunno how this applies to Revolt and dunno to what extent Durrell was aware of all this.

Bruce




On May 30, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:

>> /Naos/ is very interesting.  It is a technical term used
>> frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean
>> archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost
>> part of a temple, the /sanctum sanctorum,/ the holy of holies.
>>
>> Bruce
>
> Which is, of course, where that book series peaks in London...  St. Paul's, with a "magic circle" and Fall (LD's capitalization).  /Nunquam/ is replete with references to corporatism and faith, with the distinction between the two frequently elided.  Even before the closing scene in St. Paul's, Durrell hints at the magic circle element and money:
>
> "It [St. Paul's] was built by a great artificer in conscious pursuit of mathematical principles; it was not a dream of godhead full of poetry or frozen music or what not. No, it belonged to its age; it was a fitting symbol for a mercantile country in an age dedicated to reason, hovering on the edge of the Encyclopaedia and the Industrial Revolution. It is no accident that the business part of the city, the moneyed part, grouped itself round this great symbol of the stock and share. Nor is it an accident that it should in some ways feel strongly reminiscent of a railway station?say Euston or Waterloo. It stands as a symbol for the succeeding ages which produced both." (Nunquam 214)
>
> Faith and funds are manifestations of the same impulse, in effect, and it circles around Durrell's preoccupation with urbanization and the conditions of modernity, I would think.  The faith-funds link comes up again and again across /Nunquam/:
>
> "My dear chap, in this, our new Middle Ages, investment has become the motor response of all religion; not in God as he was known (he hasn?t changed), not in the psychic Fund of Funds which pretends to chime with the ways of universal nature. (That too is balls by the way.) No, for us money is sperm, and the investment of it the ritual of propitiation." (Nunquam 94)
>
> To this Durrell adds the chain's link:
>
> ?The pattern is only repeating itself; we have placed an unobtrusive hand on much more than the Stock Exchange. Most of the Indian holy places like the Taj and Buddha?s tree and so on are in our hands; the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, Herculaneum, Pompeii, Grant?s Tomb." (Nunquam 94)
>
> The last item is striking, taking in as it does the nation as a continuation of the religious impulse.  The same idea repeats several times across Nunquam in particular.
>
> Cheers,
> James
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 21:12:04 -0700
From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Subject: Re: [ilds] OMG XVIII
Message-ID: <53895694.7070305 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello all,

On 2014-05-27, 8:26 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote:
> I don't think the ILDS can ever regain its rich, often focussed
> exchanges any more if it it uses Facebook or Twitter. I use both but
> don't regard them as vehicles  for the kind of discursive discussions we
> had - but have no longer had for a long time - on the ILDS Discussion
> Forum.

Well, let's see what we can do.  The membership expressed its desire to
renew the online activity during the Business Meeting in Vancouver, and
we'll follow the membership's wishes!

A reality has been that Charles & I have moderated things and prompted a
good deal of discussion, but we're also both in the "age & stage" with
children, the uphill career path, and such...  Charles manages the
Twitter account daily for short materials, and the lengthier (and
fuller) discussions of the listserv seem to have stilled since London --
that is, of course, open to change.

All best,
James


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 21:14:52 -0700
From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Subject: Re: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
Message-ID: <5389573C.20609 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Bruce, I think this is very close to what Durrell was after.  He, of
course, indulges the "dirty mind" element as well, but it's never
terribly far from the sacred and corporate worlds of the book.  Rebirth
is an explicit part of it as well.

I've enjoyed the Revolt books very much, despite their lesser status for
many readers.  You just can't expect them to be look like the Quartet or
travel books.

Best,
James

On 2014-05-30, 2:00 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> James and Richard,
>
> All very interesting.  Thanks.  I'll have to put /Revolt of Aphrodite/
> on my reading list.  One more thing about /naos/ in the context of
> Aphrodite, goddess of love. /Naos, /particularly when talking about the
> architecture of ancient Egyptian temples, has a strong sexual component.
>   Egyptologist tend to look at the typical temple as a long progression
> from light to darkness, as the passage narrows and becomes smaller.  The
> innermost part is the holy of holies, where the god resides in near
> darkness.  The vision is vaginal.  Hence the term penetralium (<
> /penetralis,/ penetrating) for the holy of holies.  This isn't
> interpreted as the Egyptians having "dirty minds," rather the sexual
> trope is seen as a from of regeneration and resurrection.  The ancient
> Egyptians were obsessed with the afterlife and getting there.  So, the
> sexual metaphor is a way to view rebirth.  Dunno how this applies to
> /Revolt/ and dunno to what extent Durrell was aware of all this.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com
> <mailto:james.d.gifford at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>> /Naos/ is very interesting.  It is a technical term used
>>> frequently in archaeology, particularly Egyptology and Mediterranean
>>> archaeology, and has a specific referent.  It refers to the innermost
>>> part of a temple, the /sanctum sanctorum,/ the holy of holies.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>
>> Which is, of course, where that book series peaks in London...  St.
>> Paul's, with a "magic circle" and Fall (LD's capitalization).
>>  /Nunquam/ is replete with references to corporatism and faith, with
>> the distinction between the two frequently elided.  Even before the
>> closing scene in St. Paul's, Durrell hints at the magic circle element
>> and money:
>>
>> "It [St. Paul's] was built by a great artificer in conscious pursuit
>> of mathematical principles; it was not a dream of godhead full of
>> poetry or frozen music or what not. No, it belonged to its age; it was
>> a fitting symbol for a mercantile country in an age dedicated to
>> reason, hovering on the edge of the Encyclopaedia and the Industrial
>> Revolution. It is no accident that the business part of the city, the
>> moneyed part, grouped itself round this great symbol of the stock and
>> share. Nor is it an accident that it should in some ways feel strongly
>> reminiscent of a railway station?say Euston or Waterloo. It stands as
>> a symbol for the succeeding ages which produced both." (Nunquam 214)
>>
>> Faith and funds are manifestations of the same impulse, in effect, and
>> it circles around Durrell's preoccupation with urbanization and the
>> conditions of modernity, I would think.  The faith-funds link comes up
>> again and again across /Nunquam/:
>>
>> "My dear chap, in this, our new Middle Ages, investment has become the
>> motor response of all religion; not in God as he was known (he hasn?t
>> changed), not in the psychic Fund of Funds which pretends to chime
>> with the ways of universal nature. (That too is balls by the way.) No,
>> for us money is sperm, and the investment of it the ritual of
>> propitiation." (Nunquam 94)
>>
>> To this Durrell adds the chain's link:
>>
>> ?The pattern is only repeating itself; we have placed an unobtrusive
>> hand on much more than the Stock Exchange. Most of the Indian holy
>> places like the Taj and Buddha?s tree and so on are in our hands; the
>> Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, Herculaneum, Pompeii, Grant?s Tomb."
>> (Nunquam 94)
>>
>> The last item is striking, taking in as it does the nation as a
>> continuation of the religious impulse.  The same idea repeats several
>> times across Nunquam in particular.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> James
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 08:31:12 -0500
From: "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net>
To: <ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting
        and     Controversial New Book
Message-ID: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently
published book - The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone,
published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some
controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist
art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer
read. It weaves together many diverse threads - art, literature, gender,
sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique
analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer
as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.



Included in the chapter "Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites" is a
subchapter titled "The Return of the Repressed in Durrell's Alexandria
Quartet" that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this
chapter cites James Gifford's "The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial
Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell's Monsieur."



Bottom line - this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me,
it provides new insight into the many "textbook" images of orientalism I
have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many "new" contemporary
photographs, paintings, and ideas.



Best,

Merrianne Timko





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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 08:40:51 -0700
From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Subject: Re: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an
        Interesting and Controversial New Book
Message-ID: <FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Merrianne,

Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.

Bruce


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>
> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>
> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>
> Best,
> Merrianne Timko
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 13:26:44 -0500
From: William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com>
To: "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Subject: Re: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an
        Interesting and Controversial New Book
Message-ID: <00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Bruce:

I seem to recall that, according to MacNiven's bio, when LD was confronted with the opportunity for homoerotic encounters while in prep school in England, he realized he was unstimulated by boys. That is typically the hallmark of a heterosexual mindset. Do you have any evidence other than LD's occasional bad behavior toward women that might otherwise support your theory?

Billy

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On May 31, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Merrianne,
>
> Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>>
>> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>>
>> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>>
>> Best,
>> Merrianne Timko
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
ILDS mailing list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


------------------------------

End of ILDS Digest, Vol 85, Issue 5
***********************************


From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Sat May 31 16:27:23 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 16:27:23 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
 Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <DUB113-W109CBBC7C514786575E306CC8260@phx.gbl>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>,
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>,
	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>,
	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
	<DUB113-W109CBBC7C514786575E306CC8260@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <538A655B.3080705@gmail.com>

Dear all,

I'll ask for calmer tempers in my role as moderator...  Let us not 
prevent discourse just as it resumes, though we should temper our 
temperance as well.

As the person Boone cites in his book, I'll only briefly note that he 
has written a few very interesting pieces on Durrell (and I'd be happy 
to list them if anyone wishes).  Time presses, so quick comments.  I've 
pointed out that Durrell's highly autobiographical first novel, /Pied 
Piper of Lovers/, does refers to homosexual experience in an explicit 
way, and the protagonist goes some lengths to indicate general 
acceptance of homosexuality as a perfectly normal part of the human 
spectrum.  That said, he is also described as not finding it to his 
personal tastes.  The woman the protagonist is infatuated with at this 
point in the book (Pamela) is also based on a bisexual woman Durrell 
knew at the time.

Across his career, Durrell is fairly persistent in including homosexual 
characters and scenarios in his books, and homosexuality is important in 
virtually all of his novels.  He's also relatively persistent 
(especially for the period) in not derogating it.  I personal think 
those matters all point to a reasonably non-repressed sense of his own 
sexuality, whatever myriad traits it may have taken (though I don't 
think an author's experiences can be simply equated with the body of work).

The role of homosexuality and bisexuality in Durrell's works is, in my 
view, more complex than I can get into now.  But I think it's important. 
  Vitally important to both form and content.

For Boone's work (and Bowen's, Hawthorne's, etc.), I think a further 
care is needed -- Joe doesn't point to *Durrell* being a repressed 
homosexual (very much a 90s notion, IMO) but rather to the repression of 
homosexual discourse in the novel and the constitutive function of 
homosexual desire to heteronormativity.  This is to say, the couterpoise 
of homosexuality is important to the Quartet's discourses of desire, but 
in contrast to (in his example) Doris Lessing's apparent homophobia in 
something like the Golden Notebook, the Quartet uses the false binary as 
a definitional tool.  By noticing the irruptions of homoeroticism in the 
narrative and textual details (the return of the repressed in a textual, 
formal sense), we lose that binary but also come to understand the 
definitional work the book is doing.  Who can forget that Melissa's 
gender isn't at first disclosed, and she appears as Darley's lover 
following on Balthazar's and Cavafy's homosexual lovers -- she's also 
the bee carrying pollen between her flowers (Darley and her Johns), 
which certainly queers Darley's sense of their kisses being 
pollen-dusted, etc...  Was Durrell writing this textual parapraxis 
accidentally as a repressed author, or was he making the parapraxis a 
part of the textuality of the book?  I, most certainly, suspect the 
latter, though I ultimately don't care which since I'm interested in 
what's in the book not the author, and it's certainly in the book! 
Personally, I like Joe's work on this a lot, but he's playing with a 
more nuanced set of discourses than we might get into here.

As for the matter of incest, I suspect there's been too much 
sensationalism on the matter for reasonable thought.  The biographies 
are fairly conclusive and agreed in this -- the allegation was 
sensationalism, or at least that seems the most reasonable understanding 
for something about which there's no evidence either way.  The shoddy 
scholarship in Hamer's work is purely self-serving invention, as I've 
said in a review of her book.  Things are made up across her book in 
many areas, not just the chapter on Durrell.  Fabrication at its worst.

All of that said, I don't think we ought to desist in discussing the 
complexities of sexuality in Durrell's works, though I do suspect a 
healthy sense of the difference between the writer and the work is 
important to keep at the fore of such a discussion.

I don't want to ask anyone to self-censor, but if it's possible, perhaps 
we can all orient ourselves toward what we think will bring the most 
productive discussions?

Typed in haste!

All best,
James

From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Sat May 31 16:40:55 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 16:40:55 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
 Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
	<9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <538A6887.1010406@gmail.com>

Hello all

On 2014-05-31, 3:36 PM, William Apt wrote:
> I don't recall there being a great number of homosexuals in LD's
> inner circle. In fact most were quite straight and anything but asexual.

Rather than his personal network, what about his characters?  The 
percentage jumps...  He was close with George Barker, Elizabeth Smart, 
and a number of other non-writers of the 30s and 40s who had bisexual lives.

> Contrast this with the highly closeted Jack Kerouac, almost all of whose
> inner circle were gay, despite his life long cultivation of a solid
> heterosexual public image.

But was Kerouac a repressed homosexual?  I'm suspicious of elements of 
the notion itself.  He seemed to be sexual, period, and not strictly 
limited.  Then again, I'm not a Kerouac scholar and may be quite wrong 
on this -- Kerouac was certainly in an "out" milieu.

> Finally, LD got involved with some beautiful, sexy women, and had as
> friends others. If he was gay, he certainly had a great heterosexual
> picker!

I don't want to sound glib, but many gay men were married, even to very 
attractive women.  It's too easy to speculate.

Bruce adds

> the big objection is what literary critics are fond of making ?
> namely, don't confuse the author with his or her writings!  There's
> some validity to this, but I don't always buy the objection and
> attribute it to the prejudices of New Criticism, whose ideas still
> linger and influence.

The racial issues with the New Critics, who wanted to set aside social 
context, is certainly open to critique.  But I also don't think we can 
conflate the text and the author.

I would, however, very much in this vein point to the importance of 
sexuality for content in Durrell's books as well as their formal traits 
and textuality.

And now to run!

Best,
James

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sat May 31 17:49:54 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 17:49:54 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <538A6887.1010406@gmail.com>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
	<9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
	<538A6887.1010406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D37816D3-98C0-47B1-A5AF-EB1CC996B770@earthlink.net>

James,

A few comments on your thoughtful response.  Kerouac did have at least one homosexual experience, as Gore Vidal reports firsthand in Palimpsest (1995).  Probably more.  The New Critics, particularly Wimsatt and his Verbal Icon (1954), wanted to isolate a text and remove it from any outside considerations ? social context, as you note, and biographical information also.  This I find uninteresting and willful negligence.  We have before us a couple of models of authors whose works beg for comment re their own personalities.  I've already mentioned the fairly recent reassessment of Thomas Mann.  Then there's Ernest Hemingway, who was always considered the archetypal "man's man" ? in part by his own making and persistent propaganda.  But Kenneth Lynn's Hemingway (1987) makes a strong argument for EH's highly confused sexuality.  Comley, Scholes, and Spilka follow this same path.  Hemingway's problems were quite obvious from the posthumous novel, The Garden of Eden (1986).  It would be hard to read that novel and not to think something very amiss with the author himself.  I don't think Lawrence Durrell benefits from any effort to ignore some of his failings ? the problem of incest being one and the propensity for violence another ? and now the issue of sexuality or "modern bisexuality" (which he couldn't get published in the preface to Balthazar).  With respect to how this discussion about Durrell's sexuality is conducted, I think anybody can say anything they want and however he or she pleases.  Calm and rational discourse is always appreciated, of course.  William Styron, whom no one would say was gay, once wrote that there was a period in his life when the could have gone either way.  I think something like this was probably going on with Durrell.  Confirmation, however, requires the kind of evidence and analysis Lynn uncovered and used.

Bruce


On May 31, 2014, at 4:40 PM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all
> 
> On 2014-05-31, 3:36 PM, William Apt wrote:
>> I don't recall there being a great number of homosexuals in LD's
>> inner circle. In fact most were quite straight and anything but asexual.
> 
> Rather than his personal network, what about his characters?  The percentage jumps...  He was close with George Barker, Elizabeth Smart, and a number of other non-writers of the 30s and 40s who had bisexual lives.
> 
>> Contrast this with the highly closeted Jack Kerouac, almost all of whose
>> inner circle were gay, despite his life long cultivation of a solid
>> heterosexual public image.
> 
> But was Kerouac a repressed homosexual?  I'm suspicious of elements of the notion itself.  He seemed to be sexual, period, and not strictly limited.  Then again, I'm not a Kerouac scholar and may be quite wrong on this -- Kerouac was certainly in an "out" milieu.
> 
>> Finally, LD got involved with some beautiful, sexy women, and had as
>> friends others. If he was gay, he certainly had a great heterosexual
>> picker!
> 
> I don't want to sound glib, but many gay men were married, even to very attractive women.  It's too easy to speculate.
> 
> Bruce adds
> 
>> the big objection is what literary critics are fond of making ?
>> namely, don't confuse the author with his or her writings!  There's
>> some validity to this, but I don't always buy the objection and
>> attribute it to the prejudices of New Criticism, whose ideas still
>> linger and influence.
> 
> The racial issues with the New Critics, who wanted to set aside social context, is certainly open to critique.  But I also don't think we can conflate the text and the author.
> 
> I would, however, very much in this vein point to the importance of sexuality for content in Durrell's books as well as their formal traits and textuality.
> 
> And now to run!
> 
> Best,
> James
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

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From sumantranag at gmail.com  Sat May 31 19:53:31 2014
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 08:23:31 +0530
Subject: [ilds] OMG XVIII
In-Reply-To: <web-20211917@be1.fdu.edu>
References: <28E03AB7-099D-45A0-84AB-5B0714C23A7A@gmail.com>
	<CANDhJnTe0WYs--ahTcSfWzEJR5bxMB2TecMBED=xnQMkf81kXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5382693C.6000307@gmail.com> <538272D2.60800@marcpiel.fr>
	<CANDhJnQvDxjaSVwVv8_mKWuH7UAb38w0N=0newjU2+gqE-BSgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+5jupQ8iQhHmQ8bnPphwu_XD=4b8OC2WmuHzk8svm4GvrV6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<web-20211782@be1.fdu.edu>
	<CA+5jupTodFfC07MdYNMAOz=BibwCR08L50AxuVzqpKZAKziu2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<web-20211917@be1.fdu.edu>
Message-ID: <CA+5jupQAJFem=_E13u7ofcF2je7jAi5UPJ71rOhLQ3unyz+kCw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear James,

May I express my appreciation of your role in steering the ILDS Discussion
Forum in the light of my own limited participation in it. Your personal
responses to my posts and concerns in keeping the exchanges going, were
very readily made and were therefore helpful. I have also read your own
posts with interest, including those on The Guardian Reading and discussion
of the AQ in 2012, on the occasion of the Lawrence Durrell Centenary.

Of course we shall continue to see your exchanges here, and I'm sure you
will be playing a role in the activities of the ILDS.

May I also congratulate Linda Rashidi on her appointment as President of
the new Board ILDS.

If I might respond to your last mail on display of posts to the sender on
the ILDS Forum, may I venture to suggest that a thread of exchanges can
only be maintained if all participants are able to see the whole thread
including, naturally, their own posts which are sent in response to other
posts, and in response to which other observations are posted.

Best regards,

Sumantra

Sent from my Samsung Tablet
On 30 May 2014 23:56, "Gifford, James" <gifford at fdu.edu> wrote:

> Hi Sumantra,
>
> You'll still have the copy in your sent folder, and you'll receive a note
> when it's posted, but the list automatically (without any option for me to
> change it) does not send a copy of your own message to you -- that said, it
> will still be in the digest form and in the archive, so you can be sure it
> was sent.  It's for all messages going forward, not retroactively.
>
> For you (and anyone else with interest), the listserv archive is
> accessible through the ILDS website:
>
> http://www.lawrencedurrell.org
>
> Just look to the right side vertical bar area.
>
> All best,
> James
>
> On Fri, 30 May 2014 23:46:08 +0530
>  Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> James,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply but I don't think the final post is appearing before
>> the sender at all. If it was, I would have seen it by now.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Sumantra
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Tablet
>> On 30 May 2014 23:30, "Gifford, James" <gifford at fdu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello Sumantra,
>>>
>>> I've added an automated response for posters to receive when their
>>> message
>>> is sent out -- we keep the list moderated to reduce spam, so any delays
>>> in
>>> posting are based on our time zone differences, transit, and the usual
>>> human exigencies!
>>>
>>> I've sent Linda Rashidi a note as well.  I'm at the start of term and
>>> just
>>> back from a conference, so I'm playing catch-up myself.
>>>
>>> Best to you all,
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Fri, 30 May 2014 23:14:45 +0530
>>>  Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Thanks for the response Ken, and for the clarification you have
>>>> provided.
>>>>
>>>> How can you interact at all if your post is not seen on ILDS when it
>>>> appears? Surely the technical hitch causing this absence of the post in
>>>> the
>>>> sender's view can be solved.
>>>>
>>>> Sumantra
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Samsung Tablet
>>>> On 27 May 2014 10:28, "Kennedy Gammage" <gammage.kennedy at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Hello Marc, I did not see an answer to your question so I thought I
>>>> would
>>>>
>>>>> venture one:
>>>>>
>>>>> This ILDS email list you subscribe to is the 'listserv' - and we also
>>>>> mentioned Twitter, which is a worldwide social media platform. You can
>>>>> find
>>>>> the ILDS Twitter feed here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://twitter.com/DurrellSociety
>>>>>
>>>>> and easily 'follow' it by signing up on Twitter. However, I don't think
>>>>> either Twitter or Facebook has been able to replace the conversation
>>>>> and
>>>>> camaraderie that first attracted me to the ILDS via the old listserv.
>>>>> Can
>>>>> the new officers please address this: what can we do to bring
>>>>> excitement
>>>>> and joie de vivre back into the organization?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers - Ken
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Marc Piel <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Am surprised to see ILDS and other lists mentionned in this message.
>>>>> As
>>>>>
>>>>>> a subscriber, this is the firrst I have heard of this. surely there
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> rupture in communications somewhere or maybe it is volontary!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can someone please clarify?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Piel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Le 26/05/14 00:05, James Gifford a ?crit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bruce and Ken,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The conference was a pleasure to host, and I have to give thanks to
>>>>>> FDU-Vancouver for the generous use of the facilities.  I also hope we
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> see both Twitter and the listserv being useful, which I think was the
>>>>>> expressed desire of the membership in Vancouver.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The membership unanimously approved the nominations committee's
>>>>>> recommended slate of candidates for the ILDS Board (and all past
>>>>>> presidents
>>>>>> are also ex-officio members):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda Rashidi - President
>>>>>> James Clawson - Vice President
>>>>>> Paul Lorenz - Secretary/Treasurer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At-large:
>>>>>> Charles Sligh
>>>>>> Pamela Francis
>>>>>> Corinne Alexandre-Garner
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll let the incoming board make the official announcement to the
>>>>>> membership directly, but I do want to extend my thanks to everyone who
>>>>>> served on the nominations committee and who formed a part of "my"
>>>>>> board
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the past four years -- thank-you all.  Your help was immeasurable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All best,
>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2014-05-25, 11:35 AM, Kennedy Gammage wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very good Bruce - I wish I could have been there. Best wishes to
>>>>>> everyone in the ILDS. Did I hear correctly that Anne Zahlan will be
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> next president? Congratulations Anne!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to see more communication via this listserv. I am a big
>>>>>> fan
>>>>>> of Twitter, but I am not logged-in all the time (to say the least!)
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> it's very easy to miss individual tweets. I never miss these ILDS
>>>>>> e-mails and read every one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers - Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Redwine <
>>>>>> bredwine1968 at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:bredwine1968 at gmail.com> <bredwine1968 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     My compliments to the organizers of OMG XVIII in Vancouver, BC.
>>>>>>       Much credit goes to James Gifford, whose campus at FDU hosted
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>     conference.  I found the proceedings both enlightening and
>>>>>>     enjoyable.  All the speakers and presenters did an excellent job.
>>>>>>  I
>>>>>>     especially enjoyed Ian MacNiven's keynote address. It is
>>>>>>     particularly enjoyable to think of the /Quartet/ as a string
>>>>>>     quartet, thanks to Kiyoko Magome, and to think about the source of
>>>>>>     Durrell's recipes of French cuisine in the /Quintet,/ thanks to
>>>>>>     Merrianne Timko.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Best wishes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Bruce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     ILDS mailing list
>>>>>>     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca> <
>>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>>>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Sat May 31 21:39:51 2014
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 14:39:51 +1000
Subject: [ilds] Query re 'Tunc'
In-Reply-To: <5389573C.20609@gmail.com>
References: <1401443510.47081.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<A50F150E-548B-4F37-BD9E-DAF74371CFE0@earthlink.net>
	<ADAF90E6-D2A7-4ED5-AC2A-8E7566B3BEF4@earthlink.net>
	<5388D4A1.8020503@gmail.com>
	<33D640C5-8ECD-4AF4-A70F-764DA1314D6F@earthlink.net>
	<5389573C.20609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8BD2ABB-2FB5-477C-A0C1-AF8D7631CFD1@bigpond.net.au>

First let me say how wonderful it is that the list has fired up again. Just back from 3 days in the Blue Mountains and truly astonished at the extent of correspondence - like something was missing in our lives. Now Revolt of Aphrodite has surfaced and all well and good. When I wrote the Durrell Miller program and interviewed Ian MacNiven and M Haag both said that these books  could do with more recognition in the context of Durrell's relevance to the current age of globalised corporate culture. Ian, I think, said that these book were conceptually very modern, quite advanced. To my knowledge there has not been much discussion of these book, certainly not since I got involved a few years ago.

This is certainly a place we could go.

Now, I've not read them, but think now it is time I should.

David 

PS in terms of OMG 2016, I vote for Paris or Athens. Going to seriously try to make it this time

Sent from my iPad

> On 31 May 2014, at 2:14 pm, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Bruce, I think this is very close to what Durrell was after.  He, of course, indulges the "dirty mind" element as well, but it's never terribly far from the sacred and corporate worlds of the book.  Rebirth is an explicit part of it as well.
> 
> I've enjoyed the Revolt books very much, despite their lesser status for many readers.  You just can't expect them to be look like the Quartet or travel books.
> 
> Best,
> James


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sun Jun  1 10:28:01 2014
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 10:28:01 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>
	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>
	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
	<9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <811EBBE6-5763-4FAF-820A-A85E45DABB25@earthlink.net>

Billy,

Thanks for the response and encouragement.  Let me answer your questions.  Michael Haag told me he didn't think Durrell was gay.  I assume he would also say no to repressed homosexuality.  My guess is that Ian MacNiven would agree with Haag on both counts.  I have no idea what Eve Cohen thought.  Sappho Jane did not mention her father having homosexual tendencies, repressed or not, in the excerpts of her diaries and letters published in Granta.

Joseph A. Boone's article is "Mappings of Male Desire in Durrell's Alexandria Quartet," South Atlantic Quarterly 88 (1989), 73-106.  It's good.  James corrected me on attributing repressed homosexuality to Boone's argument.  He's right.  My memory was faulty.  Boone doesn't explicitly say that ? he sticks to the text ? but I think this is quibbling.  Boone talks about a strange relationship between Durrell and Miller, especially as it began in 1935 (p. 75), and the implications of the sexual metaphor, "man-size piece."  He should have gone further.  I think what we have going on here is something similar to the culture of homosexuality in Classical Greece ? the older male (erastes) taking on a younger male (eromenos) as his partner/beloved.  Initially Miller is the dominant partner, later the roles reverse.  The Greek terms are Kenneth Dover's in his Greek Homosexuality (1978).  I am a little surprised Boone doesn't make the analogy.  Recall that Durrell's pseudonym in Panic Spring (1937) is Charles Norden, that his boat on Corfu is the Norden, and that Van Norden is Miler's friend in Tropic of Cancer.

This topic of Durrell's sexuality/homosexuality has been discussed before on the List.  Undoubtedly some are bored by it.  For more detail, I refer you to the post:  Miller's "Numinous Cock" v. Durrell's "Man-size Piece" (24 March 2011).  The exchange was largely between James and myself.  Neither of us have changed our positions.  Here's my conclusion in 2011:

Am I arguing that Durrell and Miller had a homosexual relationship?  No.  Am I arguing that Durrell was in fact homosexual?  No.  I am pointing out certain patterns in their relationship, which suggest an erotic involvement or attachment.   This homoerotic affinity need not have been consummated to be valid.  I am also suggesting the obvious that LGD had a very complex personality and that any attempt to characterize him as, say, utterly and robustly heterosexual is trite and untrue.  In a personal communication, Dr. Anthony Durrell, a practicing psychiatrist, has compared LGD's personality to an onion skin of many layers, and David Green has aptly noted that the photograph of Durrell as a French onion seller fits Dr. Durrell's analogy (see Gordon Bowker, Through the Dark Labyrinth: A Biography of Lawrence Durrell, London 1997:  fig. of Durrell in London, 1985).  I agree with both of them.


Bruce




On May 31, 2014, at 3:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well argued, my friend! But don't people tend to gravitate to their own kind? I don't recall there being a great number of homosexuals in LD's inner circle. In fact most were quite straight and anything but asexual. Contrast this with the highly closeted Jack Kerouac, almost all of whose inner circle were gay, despite his life long cultivation of a solid heterosexual public image. 
> 
> I'm curious what others, who knew LD, have to say? MacNiven, for example?  What about Haag, having known Eve Cohen so well? 
> 
> Finally, LD got involved with some beautiful, sexy women, and had as friends others. If he was gay, he certainly had a great heterosexual picker! 
> 
> Finally, trying to decide if LD was gay based only on highly tenuous circumstantial evidence will be as difficult as the attempt to determine if TE Lawrence was gay or just a severely repressed asexual personality. Good luck!
> 
> Billy
> 
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
> Austin TX 78701
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> 
> On May 31, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Billy, thanks for the response.  Any evidence for Durrell's repressed homosexuality?  No, certainly none that would satisfy a court of law.  But to be argumentative, MacNiven bases his biography in part on what Durrell told him, and would you expect Lawrence Durrell to admit homosexual tendencies, especially given the opprobrium attached to such a confession?  (By the way, I don't mean to disparage MacNiven's tremendous work ? I have the greatest respect for what he accomplished.)  My evidence is circumstantial and largely based on Durrell's writings and the prominence of homosexuality as a topic of treatment.  As D. H. Lawrence says, "Never trust the artist.  Trust the tale."  I'm much in line with what Boone writes.  Here, of course, the big objection is what literary critics are fond of making ? namely, don't confuse the author with his or her writings!  There's some validity to this, but I don't always buy the objection and attribute it to the prejudices of New Criticism, whose ideas still linger and influence.  So, I'm saying, as Boone seems to suggest, let's look at Durrell's writings and his obsessions and see where all that leads us.  Finally, remember the lesson of Thomas Mann, author of Death in Venice.  For a long time, Mann's treatment of homosexuality was analyzed as a literary trope (much as Durrell's is).  After all, Mann was an upright German, married with a large family, and no inkling of homosexuality.  But as Anthony Heilbut shows in his biography, Thomas Mann:  Eros and Literature (1996), Mann had repressed homosexual tendencies.  Death in Venice and Gustav von Aschenbach's infatuation with the boy Tadzio is based on Mann's own personal experience.  I see something similar going on with Durrell.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 31, 2014, at 11:26 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Bruce: 
>>> 
>>> I seem to recall that, according to MacNiven's bio, when LD was confronted with the opportunity for homoerotic encounters while in prep school in England, he realized he was unstimulated by boys. That is typically the hallmark of a heterosexual mindset. Do you have any evidence other than LD's occasional bad behavior toward women that might otherwise support your theory? 
>>> 
>>> Billy
>>> 
>>> WILLIAM APT
>>> Attorney at Law
>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>> Austin TX 78701
>>> 512/708-8300
>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>> 
>>> On May 31, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Merrianne,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>>>>>  
>>>>> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Merrianne Timko
>>>>>  
>>>>>  

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From james.d.gifford at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 15:48:54 2014
From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 15:48:54 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
 Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <811EBBE6-5763-4FAF-820A-A85E45DABB25@earthlink.net>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>	<9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
	<811EBBE6-5763-4FAF-820A-A85E45DABB25@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <538BADD6.8060302@gmail.com>

Hi All,

I think this is the link to Bruce's previous post:

https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20110321/005997.html

Just more than three years ago!  Anyone intrepid can find the article in 
the listserv archives as well (search engine is on the right hand side 
of the ILDS website: http://www.lawrencedurrell.org).

I'd only add that Van Norden is also the man in the scene I analyze in 
that article -- the intimacy he shares with Miller is fairly blunt.

I suppose my only addition would be that when we look to the queerness 
of the irruptions of the repressed into the text in the Quartet (and 
much of Durrell's other works) or the uncertainties over orientation or 
the universal perversions of desire, we can either look to the author 
and ask if he was doing this by accident (in other words, 
"symptomatically") or if this is part of the work.  As a reader, I'm 
ultimately not very concerned since I'm more interested in the text. 
With that proviso, I'd cautiously add that I'm fairly sure these are 
designed parts of Durrell's works -- they're too pervasive to be 
accidental, and they're too close to the ideas in his critical writing.

So, was Durrell symptomatically referring to Van Norden?  Or was this by 
design?  I doubt he failed to notice the erastes/eromenos quality of his 
relationship with Miller.  It seems almost explicit.

All best,
James


On 2014-06-01, 10:28 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> Billy,
>
> Thanks for the response and encouragement.  Let me answer your
> questions.  Michael Haag told me he /didn't/ think Durrell was gay.  I
> assume he would also say no to repressed homosexuality.  My guess is
> that Ian MacNiven would agree with Haag on both counts.  I have no idea
> what Eve Cohen thought.  Sappho Jane did not mention her father having
> homosexual tendencies, repressed or not, in the excerpts of her diaries
> and letters published in /Granta./
>
> Joseph A. Boone's article is "Mappings of Male Desire in Durrell's
> /Alexandria Quartet,"/ /South Atlantic Quarterly/ 88 (1989), 73-106.
>   It's good.  James corrected me on attributing repressed homosexuality
> to Boone's argument.  He's right.  My memory was faulty.  Boone doesn't
> explicitly say that ? he sticks to the text ? but I think this is
> quibbling.  Boone talks about a strange relationship between Durrell and
> Miller, especially as it began in 1935 (p. 75), and the implications of
> the sexual metaphor, "man-size piece."  He should have gone further.  I
> think what we have going on here is something similar to the culture of
> homosexuality in Classical Greece ? the older male /(erastes)/ taking on
> a younger male /(eromenos)/ as his partner/beloved.  Initially Miller is
> the dominant partner, later the roles reverse.  The Greek terms are
> Kenneth Dover's in his /Greek Homosexuality/ (1978).  I am a little
> surprised Boone doesn't make the analogy.  Recall that Durrell's
> pseudonym in /Panic Spring/ (1937) is Charles Norden, that his boat on
> Corfu is the Norden, and that Van Norden is Miler's friend in /Tropic of
> Cancer./
> /
> /
> This topic of Durrell's sexuality/homosexuality has been discussed
> before on the List.  Undoubtedly some are bored by it.  For more detail,
> I refer you to the post:  Miller's "Numinous Cock" v. Durrell's
> "Man-size Piece" (24 March 2011).  The exchange was largely between
> James and myself.  Neither of us have changed our positions.  Here's my
> conclusion in 2011:
>
> Am I arguing that Durrell and Miller had a homosexual relationship?  No.
>   Am I arguing that Durrell was in fact homosexual?  No.  I am pointing
> out certain patterns in their relationship, which suggest an erotic
> involvement or attachment.   This homoerotic affinity need not have been
> consummated to be valid.  I am also suggesting the obvious that LGD had
> a very complex personality and that any attempt to characterize him as,
> say, utterly and robustly heterosexual is trite and untrue.  In a
> personal communication, Dr. Anthony Durrell, a practicing psychiatrist,
> has compared LGD's personality to an onion skin of many layers, and
> David Green has aptly noted that the photograph of Durrell as a French
> onion seller fits Dr. Durrell's analogy (see Gordon Bowker, /Through the
> Dark Labyrinth: A Biography of Lawrence Durrell,/ London 1997:  fig. of
> Durrell in London, 1985).  I agree with both of them.
>
>
> Bruce

From billyapt at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 17:39:15 2014
From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 19:39:15 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
	Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <811EBBE6-5763-4FAF-820A-A85E45DABB25@earthlink.net>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>
	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>
	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
	<9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
	<811EBBE6-5763-4FAF-820A-A85E45DABB25@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0DB16F29-F01F-452B-9DC3-E558E843F0DE@gmail.com>

Bruce:

DH Lawrence observed that deep and intense friendships between heterosexual men are not much different than erotic relationships - only the physical aspect is missing. Perhaps it's as simple as that. And remember: LD was a big fan of DH Lawrence. 

All the best as always, 

Billy

WILLIAM APT
Attorney at Law
812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
Austin TX 78701
512/708-8300
512/708-8011 FAX

> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:28 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Billy,
> 
> Thanks for the response and encouragement.  Let me answer your questions.  Michael Haag told me he didn't think Durrell was gay.  I assume he would also say no to repressed homosexuality.  My guess is that Ian MacNiven would agree with Haag on both counts.  I have no idea what Eve Cohen thought.  Sappho Jane did not mention her father having homosexual tendencies, repressed or not, in the excerpts of her diaries and letters published in Granta.
> 
> Joseph A. Boone's article is "Mappings of Male Desire in Durrell's Alexandria Quartet," South Atlantic Quarterly 88 (1989), 73-106.  It's good.  James corrected me on attributing repressed homosexuality to Boone's argument.  He's right.  My memory was faulty.  Boone doesn't explicitly say that ? he sticks to the text ? but I think this is quibbling.  Boone talks about a strange relationship between Durrell and Miller, especially as it began in 1935 (p. 75), and the implications of the sexual metaphor, "man-size piece."  He should have gone further.  I think what we have going on here is something similar to the culture of homosexuality in Classical Greece ? the older male (erastes) taking on a younger male (eromenos) as his partner/beloved.  Initially Miller is the dominant partner, later the roles reverse.  The Greek terms are Kenneth Dover's in his Greek Homosexuality (1978).  I am a little surprised Boone doesn't make the analogy.  Recall that Durrell's pseudonym in Panic Spring (1937) is Charles Norden, that his boat on Corfu is the Norden, and that Van Norden is Miler's friend in Tropic of Cancer.
> 
> This topic of Durrell's sexuality/homosexuality has been discussed before on the List.  Undoubtedly some are bored by it.  For more detail, I refer you to the post:  Miller's "Numinous Cock" v. Durrell's "Man-size Piece" (24 March 2011).  The exchange was largely between James and myself.  Neither of us have changed our positions.  Here's my conclusion in 2011:
> 
> Am I arguing that Durrell and Miller had a homosexual relationship?  No.  Am I arguing that Durrell was in fact homosexual?  No.  I am pointing out certain patterns in their relationship, which suggest an erotic involvement or attachment.   This homoerotic affinity need not have been consummated to be valid.  I am also suggesting the obvious that LGD had a very complex personality and that any attempt to characterize him as, say, utterly and robustly heterosexual is trite and untrue.  In a personal communication, Dr. Anthony Durrell, a practicing psychiatrist, has compared LGD's personality to an onion skin of many layers, and David Green has aptly noted that the photograph of Durrell as a French onion seller fits Dr. Durrell's analogy (see Gordon Bowker, Through the Dark Labyrinth: A Biography of Lawrence Durrell, London 1997:  fig. of Durrell in London, 1985).  I agree with both of them.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 31, 2014, at 3:36 PM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Well argued, my friend! But don't people tend to gravitate to their own kind? I don't recall there being a great number of homosexuals in LD's inner circle. In fact most were quite straight and anything but asexual. Contrast this with the highly closeted Jack Kerouac, almost all of whose inner circle were gay, despite his life long cultivation of a solid heterosexual public image. 
>> 
>> I'm curious what others, who knew LD, have to say? MacNiven, for example?  What about Haag, having known Eve Cohen so well? 
>> 
>> Finally, LD got involved with some beautiful, sexy women, and had as friends others. If he was gay, he certainly had a great heterosexual picker! 
>> 
>> Finally, trying to decide if LD was gay based only on highly tenuous circumstantial evidence will be as difficult as the attempt to determine if TE Lawrence was gay or just a severely repressed asexual personality. Good luck!
>> 
>> Billy
>> 
>> WILLIAM APT
>> Attorney at Law
>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>> Austin TX 78701
>> 512/708-8300
>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>> 
>>> On May 31, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Billy, thanks for the response.  Any evidence for Durrell's repressed homosexuality?  No, certainly none that would satisfy a court of law.  But to be argumentative, MacNiven bases his biography in part on what Durrell told him, and would you expect Lawrence Durrell to admit homosexual tendencies, especially given the opprobrium attached to such a confession?  (By the way, I don't mean to disparage MacNiven's tremendous work ? I have the greatest respect for what he accomplished.)  My evidence is circumstantial and largely based on Durrell's writings and the prominence of homosexuality as a topic of treatment.  As D. H. Lawrence says, "Never trust the artist.  Trust the tale."  I'm much in line with what Boone writes.  Here, of course, the big objection is what literary critics are fond of making ? namely, don't confuse the author with his or her writings!  There's some validity to this, but I don't always buy the objection and attribute it to the prejudices of New Criticism, whose ideas still linger and influence.  So, I'm saying, as Boone seems to suggest, let's look at Durrell's writings and his obsessions and see where all that leads us.  Finally, remember the lesson of Thomas Mann, author of Death in Venice.  For a long time, Mann's treatment of homosexuality was analyzed as a literary trope (much as Durrell's is).  After all, Mann was an upright German, married with a large family, and no inkling of homosexuality.  But as Anthony Heilbut shows in his biography, Thomas Mann:  Eros and Literature (1996), Mann had repressed homosexual tendencies.  Death in Venice and Gustav von Aschenbach's infatuation with the boy Tadzio is based on Mann's own personal experience.  I see something similar going on with Durrell.
>>> 
>>> Bruce
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 31, 2014, at 11:26 AM, William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce: 
>>>> 
>>>> I seem to recall that, according to MacNiven's bio, when LD was confronted with the opportunity for homoerotic encounters while in prep school in England, he realized he was unstimulated by boys. That is typically the hallmark of a heterosexual mindset. Do you have any evidence other than LD's occasional bad behavior toward women that might otherwise support your theory? 
>>>> 
>>>> Billy
>>>> 
>>>> WILLIAM APT
>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>> 812 San Antonio St, Ste 401
>>>> Austin TX 78701
>>>> 512/708-8300
>>>> 512/708-8011 FAX
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 31, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Merrianne,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks.  Some years ago Boone wrote a provocative article on homosexuality in the Quartet.  It begins by discussing Durrell's reference to Tropic of Cancer as a "man-size piece of work" in his famous introductory letter to Miller.  Boone took this as an example of Durrell's repressed homosexuality, if I recall correctly.  That is roughly equivalent to "you've shown me yours, now I'll show you mine."  Years ago I pursued this line of argument on the ILDS List and was roundly scoffed at.  "Durrell is gay!  Nonsense!"  Personally I think he was a repressed homosexual, which might account for some of his strange and violent behavior.  The guy was pretty screwed up.  Perhaps we can resume this discussion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 31, 2014, at 6:31 AM, "Merrianne" <timlot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Before attending the OMG conference in Vancouver, I purchased a recently published book ? The Homoerotics of Orientalism by Joseph Allen Boone, published by Columbia University Press. The book is generating some controversy. Having spent many years researching 19th century orientalist art, I am finding this book very interesting, but not your usual summer read. It weaves together many diverse threads ? art, literature, gender, sexuality, colonialism, mass marketing, etc., and introduces some unique analysis. Illustrations range from traditional Ingres nudes to Norman Mailer as a pharaoh on the cover of New York magazine.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Included in the chapter ?Epic Ambitions and Epicurean Appetites? is a subchapter titled ?The Return of the Repressed in Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet? that focuses on the depiction of Darley. Footnote 70 for this chapter cites James Gifford?s ?The Frontiers of Love: Sexual and Territorial Ambiguity in Lawrence Durrell?s Monsieur.?
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Bottom line ? this is a book that some of you might want to peruse. For me, it provides new insight into the many ?textbook? images of orientalism I have enjoyed over the years, and introduces me to many ?new? contemporary photographs, paintings, and ideas.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Merrianne Timko
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From marc at marcpiel.fr  Sun Jun  1 17:46:55 2014
From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 02:46:55 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
 Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <538BADD6.8060302@gmail.com>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>	<9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>	<811EBBE6-5763-4FAF-820A-A85E45DABB25@earthlink.net>
	<538BADD6.8060302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <538BC97F.8020902@marcpiel.fr>

Hi James, Bruce,
It seems that your preoccupation with this subject 
just shows up your own preoccupation with 
homosexuality.
Nothing more. There is possibly more truth in that 
phrase than in your suppositions, without any 
facts to support them.
I can remember some photos of LD and HM; the 
latter was skinny dipping and LD was very 
embarrassed!!!
LD had lots of occasions in Egypt to make contact 
with homo environments and never did.
This does not mean that he was not aware of 
homosexuality around him; the AQ proves this.
I firmly believe that a good writer cannot write 
good literature unless that writer has lived the 
subjects he writes about. I have recently read 
Patrick Whites biography; he was without any doubt 
homosexual, which did not stop him from writing 
some very moving pages about heterosexual love 
(Mrs Fraser for example) and although he and LD 
had lots of possibilities to know each other, 
neither seemed to be attracted. This to me is far 
more affirmative, than all your suppositions.

We appreciate LD's writing because we understand 
the world (especially in Egypt) and the context in 
which he situates his writing; Because we 
understand the excerpts on homosexuality, does not 
make us homosexuals, nor frustrated homosexuals.

Cordialement,
Marc Piel

Le 02/06/14 00:48, James Gifford a ?crit :
> Hi All,
>
> I think this is the link to Bruce's previous post:
>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20110321/005997.html 
>
>
> Just more than three years ago!  Anyone intrepid 
> can find the article in the listserv archives as 
> well (search engine is on the right hand side of 
> the ILDS website: http://www.lawrencedurrell.org).
>
> I'd only add that Van Norden is also the man in 
> the scene I analyze in that article -- the 
> intimacy he shares with Miller is fairly blunt.
>
> I suppose my only addition would be that when we 
> look to the queerness of the irruptions of the 
> repressed into the text in the Quartet (and much 
> of Durrell's other works) or the uncertainties 
> over orientation or the universal perversions of 
> desire, we can either look to the author and ask 
> if he was doing this by accident (in other 
> words, "symptomatically") or if this is part of 
> the work.  As a reader, I'm ultimately not very 
> concerned since I'm more interested in the text. 
> With that proviso, I'd cautiously add that I'm 
> fairly sure these are designed parts of 
> Durrell's works -- they're too pervasive to be 
> accidental, and they're too close to the ideas 
> in his critical writing.
>
> So, was Durrell symptomatically referring to Van 
> Norden?  Or was this by design?  I doubt he 
> failed to notice the erastes/eromenos quality of 
> his relationship with Miller.  It seems almost 
> explicit.
>
> All best,
> James
>
>
> On 2014-06-01, 10:28 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> Billy,
>>
>> Thanks for the response and encouragement.  Let 
>> me answer your
>> questions.  Michael Haag told me he /didn't/ 
>> think Durrell was gay.  I
>> assume he would also say no to repressed 
>> homosexuality.  My guess is
>> that Ian MacNiven would agree with Haag on both 
>> counts.  I have no idea
>> what Eve Cohen thought.  Sappho Jane did not 
>> mention her father having
>> homosexual tendencies, repressed or not, in the 
>> excerpts of her diaries
>> and letters published in /Granta./
>>
>> Joseph A. Boone's article is "Mappings of Male 
>> Desire in Durrell's
>> /Alexandria Quartet,"/ /South Atlantic 
>> Quarterly/ 88 (1989), 73-106.
>>   It's good.  James corrected me on attributing 
>> repressed homosexuality
>> to Boone's argument.  He's right.  My memory 
>> was faulty.  Boone doesn't
>> explicitly say that ? he sticks to the text ? 
>> but I think this is
>> quibbling.  Boone talks about a strange 
>> relationship between Durrell and
>> Miller, especially as it began in 1935 (p. 75), 
>> and the implications of
>> the sexual metaphor, "man-size piece."  He 
>> should have gone further.  I
>> think what we have going on here is something 
>> similar to the culture of
>> homosexuality in Classical Greece ? the older 
>> male /(erastes)/ taking on
>> a younger male /(eromenos)/ as his 
>> partner/beloved.  Initially Miller is
>> the dominant partner, later the roles reverse.  
>> The Greek terms are
>> Kenneth Dover's in his /Greek Homosexuality/ 
>> (1978).  I am a little
>> surprised Boone doesn't make the analogy.  
>> Recall that Durrell's
>> pseudonym in /Panic Spring/ (1937) is Charles 
>> Norden, that his boat on
>> Corfu is the Norden, and that Van Norden is 
>> Miler's friend in /Tropic of
>> Cancer./
>> /
>> /
>> This topic of Durrell's sexuality/homosexuality 
>> has been discussed
>> before on the List.  Undoubtedly some are bored 
>> by it.  For more detail,
>> I refer you to the post:  Miller's "Numinous 
>> Cock" v. Durrell's
>> "Man-size Piece" (24 March 2011).  The exchange 
>> was largely between
>> James and myself.  Neither of us have changed 
>> our positions. Here's my
>> conclusion in 2011:
>>
>> Am I arguing that Durrell and Miller had a 
>> homosexual relationship?  No.
>>   Am I arguing that Durrell was in fact 
>> homosexual?  No.  I am pointing
>> out certain patterns in their relationship, 
>> which suggest an erotic
>> involvement or attachment.   This homoerotic 
>> affinity need not have been
>> consummated to be valid.  I am also suggesting 
>> the obvious that LGD had
>> a very complex personality and that any attempt 
>> to characterize him as,
>> say, utterly and robustly heterosexual is trite 
>> and untrue.  In a
>> personal communication, Dr. Anthony Durrell, a 
>> practicing psychiatrist,
>> has compared LGD's personality to an onion skin 
>> of many layers, and
>> David Green has aptly noted that the photograph 
>> of Durrell as a French
>> onion seller fits Dr. Durrell's analogy (see 
>> Gordon Bowker, /Through the
>> Dark Labyrinth: A Biography of Lawrence 
>> Durrell,/ London 1997: fig. of
>> Durrell in London, 1985).  I agree with both of 
>> them.
>>
>>
>> Bruce
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>

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From sumantranag at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 21:07:48 2014
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 09:37:48 +0530
Subject: [ilds] Mention of the Alexandria Quartet in an Interesting and
 Controversial New Book
In-Reply-To: <538BC97F.8020902@marcpiel.fr>
References: <001601cf7cd4$9791cee0$c6b56ca0$@comcast.net>
	<FC34BBD5-EA02-4DC2-85EC-2AB4AD00432B@earthlink.net>
	<00E7FDD6-437C-4EFC-A280-A3C830922549@gmail.com>
	<99AF505A-69E0-43C6-AF07-BAD703AB067F@earthlink.net>
	<9FBD0ACC-5D7A-4C09-AAF4-0233907881BA@gmail.com>
	<811EBBE6-5763-4FAF-820A-A85E45DABB25@earthlink.net>
	<538BADD6.8060302@gmail.com> <538BC97F.8020902@marcpiel.fr>
Message-ID: <CA+5jupR7-m3xwPnw3uhKw95X4HZcQ7t3k0K+9CDCU-aWbJny3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Marc, I agree with your view that the subject of homosexuality as a
possible personal trait of the writer (Lawrence Durrell) can do him
injustice, both as a writer and a person, since the manifold views show
that it is still conjecture, however deeply that conjecture is examined.
And what is the object of this single track of enquiry?

We should perhaps deal more with the work of the author which has a wide
field for enquiry and discussion in the ILDS Forum.

Regards

Sumantra

Sent from my Samsung Tablet
On 2 Jun 2014 07:01, "Marc Piel" <marc at marcpiel.fr> wrote:

>  Hi James, Bruce,
> It seems that your preoccupation with this subject just shows up your own
> preoccupation with homosexuality.
> Nothing more. There is possibly more truth in that phrase than in your
> suppositions, without any facts to support them.
> I can remember some photos of LD and HM; the latter was skinny dipping and
> LD was very embarrassed!!!
> LD had lots of occasions in Egypt to make contact with homo environments
> and never did.
> This does not mean that he was not aware of homosexuality around him; the
> AQ proves this.
> I firmly believe that a good writer cannot write good literature unless
> that writer has lived the subjects he writes about. I have recently read
> Patrick Whites biography; he was without any doubt homosexual, which did
> not stop him from writing some very moving pages about heterosexual love
> (Mrs Fraser for example) and although he and LD had lots of possibilities
> to know each other, neither seemed to be attracted. This to me is far more
> affirmative, than all your suppositions.
>
> We appreciate LD's writing because we understand the world (especially in
> Egypt) and the context in which he situates his writing; Because we
> understand the excerpts on homosexuality, does not make us homosexuals, nor
> frustrated homosexuals.
>
> Cordialement,
> Marc Piel
>
>  Le 02/06/14 00:48, James Gifford a ?crit :
>
> Hi All,
>
> I think this is the link to Bruce's previous post:
>
> https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20110321/005997.html
>
> Just more than three years ago!  Anyone intrepid can find the article in
> the listserv archives as well (search engine is on the right hand side of
> the ILDS website: http://www.lawrencedurrell.org).
>
> I'd only add that Van Norden is also the man in the scene I analyze in
> that article -- the intimacy he shares with Miller is fairly blunt.
>
> I suppose my only addition would be that when we look to the queerness of
> the irruptions of the repressed into the text in the Quartet (and much of
> Durrell's other works) or the uncertainties over orientation or the
> universal perversions of desire, we can either look to the author and ask
> if he was doing this by accident (in other words, "symptomatically") or if
> this is part of the work.  As a reader, I'm ultimately not very concerned
> since I'm more interested in the text. With that proviso, I'd cautiously
> add that I'm fairly sure these are designed parts of Durrell's works --
> they're too pervasive to be accidental, and they're too close to the ideas
> in his critical writing.
>
> So, was Durrell symptomatically referring to Van Norden?  Or was this by
> design?  I doubt he failed to notice the erastes/eromenos quality of his
> relationship with Miller.  It seems almost explicit.
>
> All best,
> James
>
>
> On 2014-06-01, 10:28 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
> Billy,
>
> Thanks for the response and encouragement.  Let me answer your
> questions.  Michael Haag told me he /didn't/ think Durrell was gay.  I
> assume he would also say no to repressed homosexuality.  My guess is
> that Ian MacNiven would agree with Haag on both counts.  I have no idea
> what Eve Cohen thought.  Sappho Jane did not mention her father having
> homosexual tendencies, repressed or not, in the excerpts of her diaries
> and letters published in /Granta./
>
> Joseph A. Boone's article is "Mappings of Male Desire in Durrell's
> /Alexandria Quartet,"/ /South Atlantic Quarterly/ 88 (1989), 73-106.
>   It's good.  James corrected me on attributing repressed homosexuality
> to Boone's argument.  He's right.  My memory was faulty.  Boone doesn't
> explicitly say that ? he sticks to the text ? but I think this is
> quibbling.  Boone talks about a strange relationship between Durrell and
> Miller, especially as it began in 1935 (p. 75), and the implications of
> the sexual metaphor, "man-size piece."  He should have gone further.  I
> think what we have going on here is something similar to the culture of
> homosexuality in Classical Greece ? the older male /(erastes)/ taking on
> a younger male /(eromenos)/ as his partner/beloved.  Initially Miller is
> the dominant partner, later the roles reverse.  The Greek terms are
> Kenneth Dover's in his /Greek Homosexuality/ (1978).  I am a little
> surprised Boone doesn't make the analogy.  Recall that Durrell's
> pseudonym in /Panic Spring/ (1937) is Charles Norden, that his boat on
> Corfu is the Norden, and that Van Norden is Miler's friend in /Tropic of
> Cancer./
> /
> /
> This topic of Durrell's sexuality/homosexuality has been discussed
> before on the List.  Undoubtedly some are bored by it.  For more detail,
> I refer you to the post:  Miller's "Numinous Cock" v. Durrell's
> "Man-size Piece" (24 March 2011).  The exchange was largely between
> James and myself.  Neither of us have changed our positions.  Here's my
> conclusion in 2011:
>
> Am I arguing that Durrell and Miller had a homosexual relationship?  No.
>   Am I arguing that Durrell was in fact homosexual?  No.  I am pointing
> out certain patterns in their relationship, which suggest an erotic
> involvement or attachment.   This homoerotic affinity need not have been
> consummated to be valid.  I am also suggesting the obvious that LGD had
> a very complex personality and that any attempt to characterize him as,
> say, utterly and robustly heterosexual is trite and untrue.  In a
> personal communication, Dr. Anthony Durrell, a practicing psychiatrist,
> has compared LGD's personality to an onion skin of many layers, and
> David Green has aptly noted that the photograph of Durrell as a French
> onion seller fits Dr. Durrell's analogy (see Gordon Bowker, /Through the
> Dark Labyrinth: A Biography of Lawrence Durrell,/ London 1997:  fig. of
> Durrell in London, 1985).  I agree with both of them.
>
>
> Bruce
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
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