From marc at marcpiel.fr Mon Mar 12 03:36:18 2012 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:36:18 +0100 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com> References: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F5DD1A2.6070707@marcpiel.fr> Surely the word "prurient" can only be defined by the mind of the reader! @+ Marc NB: It seems to be quite successful; 50 years of continuous publication! (In how many languages?). Le 11/03/12 23:42, Robin.W.Collins a ?crit : > It's fiction, not history. The more prurient the > better. > > R. >> >> Is this an exaggerated attempt at making a >> subject interesting in a prurient >> sort of way? If so, does the literary value of >> the work suffer? In fact The >> Alexandria Quartet appears to depend far too >> much on prurience for retaining >> the interest of the reader, even though Durrell >> also succeeds in recreating >> romance in an age when romance seemed to have >> become irrelevant or obsolete. >> >> Sumantra >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 >> *********************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhopwood at mac.com Mon Mar 12 07:56:37 2012 From: paulhopwood at mac.com (Paul Hopwood) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:56:37 +0000 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com> References: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree but wonder whether Durrell's kaleidoscopic, and perhaps romanticized panoply unapologetically reflects his own veiwpoint (he seemed to be wonderfully bedazzled by experiences that many of us overlook as mundane and everyday). The fact that he could feel and convey scintillating poetry (of perhaps the experience of a glass of cheap retsina), suggests that his internal imaginings interact with a colourful reality immediate only to himself. To me, that was the power of the Alexandria Quartet; objective, historical, literal (whatever you choose) events have a vastly different reality seen through the various lenses even of those sharing the same time and place. His reality was so powerfully felt, and described, that I for one often aspire to see the world through his super-sensitive senses. And feel that, in some way, he provides lessons in escaping reality and tasting a hidden richness of life. Paul Hopwood On 11 Mar 2012, at 22:42, Robin.W.Collins wrote: > It's fiction, not history. The more prurient the better. > > R. >> >> Is this an exaggerated attempt at making a subject interesting in a >> prurient >> sort of way? If so, does the literary value of the work suffer? In >> fact The >> Alexandria Quartet appears to depend far too much on prurience for >> retaining >> the interest of the reader, even though Durrell also succeeds in >> recreating >> romance in an age when romance seemed to have become irrelevant or >> obsolete. >> >> Sumantra >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 >> *********************************** > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at marcpiel.fr Mon Mar 12 17:06:33 2012 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 01:06:33 +0100 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F5E8F89.6070506@marcpiel.fr> You say the opposite in your second paragraph than you said in the first!!!!! Le 12/03/12 15:56, Paul Hopwood a ?crit : > I agree but wonder whether Durrell's > kaleidoscopic, and perhaps romanticized panoply > unapologetically reflects his own veiwpoint (he > seemed to be wonderfully bedazzled by > experiences that many of us overlook as mundane > and everyday). The fact that he could feel and > convey scintillating poetry (of perhaps the > experience of a glass of cheap retsina), > suggests that his internal imaginings interact > with a colourful reality immediate only to himself. > > To me, that was the power of the Alexandria > Quartet; objective, historical, literal > (whatever you choose) events have a vastly > different reality seen through the various > lenses even of those sharing the same time and > place. His reality was so powerfully felt, and > described, that I for one often aspire to see > the world through his super-sensitive senses. > And feel that, in some way, he provides lessons > in escaping reality and tasting a hidden > richness of life. > > Paul Hopwood > On 11 Mar 2012, at 22:42, Robin.W.Collins wrote: > >> It's fiction, not history. The more prurient >> the better. >> >> R. >>> >>> Is this an exaggerated attempt at making a >>> subject interesting in a prurient >>> sort of way? If so, does the literary value of >>> the work suffer? In fact The >>> Alexandria Quartet appears to depend far too >>> much on prurience for retaining >>> the interest of the reader, even though >>> Durrell also succeeds in recreating >>> romance in an age when romance seemed to have >>> become irrelevant or obsolete. >>> >>> Sumantra >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>> >>> >>> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 >>> *********************************** >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sumantranag at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 22:24:34 2012 From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:54:34 +0530 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 8_Paul Hopwood_Message: 4 References: Message-ID: <24365E89A7A34764A45883F2F455FAE1@abc> "His reality was so powerfully felt, and described, that I for one often aspire to see the world through his super-sensitive senses. And feel that, in some way, he provides lessons in escaping reality and tasting a hidden richness of life." Paul Hopwood Yes, I agree Durrell's sensitivity can make you look at the world in a new way. But surely super sensitivity does not necessarily imply "The more prurient the better." (R. Ref. Message 3.) From paulhopwood at mac.com Tue Mar 13 00:36:54 2012 From: paulhopwood at mac.com (Paul Hopwood) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:36:54 +0000 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <4F5E8F89.6070506@marcpiel.fr> References: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com> <4F5E8F89.6070506@marcpiel.fr> Message-ID: <2A65D72B-A832-4467-AB27-93678AF312B7@mac.com> Yes I suppose so... but that's OK there's more than one truth :) On 13 Mar 2012, at 00:06, Marc Piel wrote: > You say the opposite in your second paragraph than you said in the > first!!!!! > > Le 12/03/12 15:56, Paul Hopwood a ?crit : >> >> I agree but wonder whether Durrell's kaleidoscopic, and perhaps >> romanticized panoply unapologetically reflects his own veiwpoint >> (he seemed to be wonderfully bedazzled by experiences that many of >> us overlook as mundane and everyday). The fact that he could feel >> and convey scintillating poetry (of perhaps the experience of a >> glass of cheap retsina), suggests that his internal imaginings >> interact with a colourful reality immediate only to himself. >> >> To me, that was the power of the Alexandria Quartet; objective, >> historical, literal (whatever you choose) events have a vastly >> different reality seen through the various lenses even of those >> sharing the same time and place. His reality was so powerfully >> felt, and described, that I for one often aspire to see the world >> through his super-sensitive senses. And feel that, in some way, he >> provides lessons in escaping reality and tasting a hidden richness >> of life. >> >> Paul Hopwood >> On 11 Mar 2012, at 22:42, Robin.W.Collins wrote: >> >>> It's fiction, not history. The more prurient the better. >>> >>> R. >>>> >>>> Is this an exaggerated attempt at making a subject interesting in >>>> a prurient >>>> sort of way? If so, does the literary value of the work suffer? >>>> In fact The >>>> Alexandria Quartet appears to depend far too much on prurience >>>> for retaining >>>> the interest of the reader, even though Durrell also succeeds in >>>> recreating >>>> romance in an age when romance seemed to have become irrelevant >>>> or obsolete. >>>> >>>> Sumantra >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ILDS mailing list >>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>>> >>>> >>>> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 >>>> *********************************** >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtart at bigpond.net.au Tue Mar 13 02:22:12 2012 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:22:12 +1100 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <2A65D72B-A832-4467-AB27-93678AF312B7@mac.com> References: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com><4F5E8F89.6070506@marcpiel.fr> <2A65D72B-A832-4467-AB27-93678AF312B7@mac.com> Message-ID: Paul, re the below, I enjoy your enthusiasm but to say in this context that there's more than one truth is provide a big cop out. Marc is talking about the subjective nature of para 1 compared to the objective in para 2. He sees a contradiction. Have to agree that retsina provides insights; always enjoy Ld after a couple. Currently finding a mindfest in the Avignon Quintet. David Whitewine Yes I suppose so... but that's OK there's more than one truth :) On 13 Mar 2012, at 00:06, Marc Piel wrote: You say the opposite in your second paragraph than you said in the first!!!!! Le 12/03/12 15:56, Paul Hopwood a ?crit : I agree but wonder whether Durrell's kaleidoscopic, and perhaps romanticized panoply unapologetically reflects his own veiwpoint (he seemed to be wonderfully bedazzled by experiences that many of us overlook as mundane and everyday). The fact that he could feel and convey scintillating poetry (of perhaps the experience of a glass of cheap retsina), suggests that his internal imaginings interact with a colourful reality immediate only to himself. To me, that was the power of the Alexandria Quartet; objective, historical, literal (whatever you choose) events have a vastly different reality seen through the various lenses even of those sharing the same time and place. His reality was so powerfully felt, and described, that I for one often aspire to see the world through his super-sensitive senses. And feel that, in some way, he provides lessons in escaping reality and tasting a hidden richness of life. Paul Hopwood On 11 Mar 2012, at 22:42, Robin.W.Collins wrote: It's fiction, not history. The more prurient the better. R. Is this an exaggerated attempt at making a subject interesting in a prurient sort of way? If so, does the literary value of the work suffer? In fact The Alexandria Quartet appears to depend far too much on prurience for retaining the interest of the reader, even though Durrell also succeeds in recreating romance in an age when romance seemed to have become irrelevant or obsolete. Sumantra ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds End of ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 *********************************** _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhopwood at mac.com Tue Mar 13 02:29:59 2012 From: paulhopwood at mac.com (Paul Hopwood) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:29:59 +0000 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 8_Paul Hopwood_Message: 4 In-Reply-To: <24365E89A7A34764A45883F2F455FAE1@abc> References: <24365E89A7A34764A45883F2F455FAE1@abc> Message-ID: <98611711-6A5C-428D-8899-C0FE6D3382D9@mac.com> No I don't think so either, not generally. Maybe some squirm at perceived prurience while some relish all themes, base and exalted? I think LD's brother Gerald, more than once, described the smell of damp soil - dirt - as bringing to mind rich fruit-cake. Reading some of Lawrence's 'prurient' passages, challenge a reader's personal moral mores, perhaps through the discomfiture of repulsion, and permit their re-evaluation? An essence of 'rich fruit-cake' is to be found even in prurience! Paul On 13 Mar 2012, at 05:24, Sumantra Nag wrote: > "His reality was so powerfully felt, and described, that I for one > often aspire to see the world through his super-sensitive senses. > And feel that, in some way, he provides lessons in escaping reality > and tasting a hidden richness of life." > > Paul Hopwood > > Yes, I agree Durrell's sensitivity can make you look at the world in > a new way. But surely super sensitivity does not necessarily imply > "The more prurient the better." (R. Ref. Message 3.) > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From paulhopwood at mac.com Tue Mar 13 23:47:24 2012 From: paulhopwood at mac.com (Paul Hopwood) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:47:24 +0000 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: <2FF51CC3-0FB0-4FFB-95F7-382AEC7E342C@gmail.com> <4F5E8F89.6070506@marcpiel.fr> <2A65D72B-A832-4467-AB27-93678AF312B7@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Yes, forgive my jumbled half-formed thoughts! I'm trying to imagine subjectivity and objectivity as interacting in an event that is both part of an individual and also separate from her/him. Like a genetic interaction between environment (fleeting objectivity) and individual genotype (subjectivity - loosely...) producing a unique behaviour or morphological trait (I'm biologist not a literary critic). Thanks Paul On 13 Mar 2012, at 09:22, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Paul, re the below, I enjoy your enthusiasm but to say in this > context that there's more than one truth is provide a big cop out. > Marc is talking about the subjective nature of para 1 compared to > the objective in para 2. He sees a contradiction. Have to agree that > retsina provides insights; always enjoy Ld after a couple. Currently > finding a mindfest in the Avignon Quintet. > > David Whitewine > > Yes I suppose so... but that's OK there's more than one truth :) > On 13 Mar 2012, at 00:06, Marc Piel wrote: > >> You say the opposite in your second paragraph than you said in the >> first!!!!! >> >> Le 12/03/12 15:56, Paul Hopwood a ?crit : >>> >>> I agree but wonder whether Durrell's kaleidoscopic, and perhaps >>> romanticized panoply unapologetically reflects his own veiwpoint >>> (he seemed to be wonderfully bedazzled by experiences that many of >>> us overlook as mundane and everyday). The fact that he could feel >>> and convey scintillating poetry (of perhaps the experience of a >>> glass of cheap retsina), suggests that his internal imaginings >>> interact with a colourful reality immediate only to himself. >>> >>> To me, that was the power of the Alexandria Quartet; objective, >>> historical, literal (whatever you choose) events have a vastly >>> different reality seen through the various lenses even of those >>> sharing the same time and place. His reality was so powerfully >>> felt, and described, that I for one often aspire to see the world >>> through his super-sensitive senses. And feel that, in some way, he >>> provides lessons in escaping reality and tasting a hidden richness >>> of life. >>> >>> Paul Hopwood >>> On 11 Mar 2012, at 22:42, Robin.W.Collins wrote: >>> >>>> It's fiction, not history. The more prurient the better. >>>> >>>> R. >>>>> >>>>> Is this an exaggerated attempt at making a subject interesting >>>>> in a prurient >>>>> sort of way? If so, does the literary value of the work suffer? >>>>> In fact The >>>>> Alexandria Quartet appears to depend far too much on prurience >>>>> for retaining >>>>> the interest of the reader, even though Durrell also succeeds in >>>>> recreating >>>>> romance in an age when romance seemed to have become irrelevant >>>>> or obsolete. >>>>> >>>>> Sumantra >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ILDS mailing list >>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 >>>>> *********************************** >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ILDS mailing list >>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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