From marc at marcpiel.fr Tue May 3 06:59:24 2011 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 15:59:24 +0200 Subject: [ilds] Sorry about this Message-ID: <4DC00A3C.2040001@marcpiel.fr> Hello, I met someone who did a search for me at the Pompidou Centre archives and it seems thay have no archives (audio or written) about LD conference on 1st April 1981. B.R. Marc Piel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110503/2c3e35d7/attachment.html From meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si Wed May 4 04:45:00 2011 From: meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si (Meta Cerar) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 13:45:00 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> Bruce, I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. Best regards, Meta _____ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Meta, I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. Bruce On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? Best regards Meta Cerar Ljubljana, Slovenia _____ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM To: Durrel Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. David 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 + 61 2 9564 6165 0412 707 625 www.denisetart.com.au _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110504/5f8dc6cd/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Wed May 4 09:00:21 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 09:00:21 -0700 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Message-ID: Meta, Thanks for the interest. The essay, however, is in the research stage and far from being completed. I consider The Dark Labyrinth ((1947) important, but Durrell himself didn't, T. S. Eliot didn't, nor do many participants on the ILDS list-serve. The last is not a controversial statement ? simply look at the lack of enthusiasm for any kind of discussion about the novel. I doubt that many have read it, or, if they have, they categorize it as genre fiction. Critical studies of DL are also meager. Why? My previous comments about Durrell's need to produce "big works" may have relevance. Also pertinent, I think, is how one chooses to view LGD as a writer. If you want to consider him a writer of serious postmodern fiction, then DL is not your meat. It has a traditional form and doesn't have Durrell's distinctive poetic complexity. On the other hand, if you're interested in Durrell's spiritual development, then the novel has much to offer. I've already suggested that Durrell may have picked up the title from Miller's Time of the Assassins, a very spiritual book about that highly mysterious figure, Arthur Rimbaud. DL also lends itself to psychoanalytic interpretations. Guilt is an underlying theme in the novel, as Baird's psychoanalysis and his visit to the old abbot show. At this point in his life, LGD was working through his divorce from Nancy Myers (finalized in 1947) and probably had some things to feel guilty about. I am intrigued by the German soldier B?cklin, whom Baird kills and who is the source of his guilt. Another German Bocklin (without the umlaut) appears in Prospero's Cell. Moreover, B?cklin is also the name of a Swiss artist, Arnold B?cklin. Nancy Myers was an artist. I wonder if the B?cklin in DL is a screen for Nancy. Bruce On May 4, 2011, at 4:45 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > Bruce, > I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. > Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. > I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. > > Best regards, > Meta > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > > Meta, > > I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. > > > Bruce > > > > > On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > > > This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? > Best regards > Meta Cerar > Ljubljana, Slovenia > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM > To: Durrel > Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness > > LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. > > > David > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > + 61 2 9564 6165 > 0412 707 625 > www.denisetart.com.au > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110504/82c27bda/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Wed May 4 23:57:10 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:57:10 +1000 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D946B0CF9A645E7B94CFE779384BE90@DenisePC> Meta, Bruce and others. Maybe, like Pinter, it is what is not said that is important. Neither MacNiven or Bowker say much about about Dark Labyrinth but, interestingly, Bowker gives his book that name, suggesting a biographical significance which maybe he was unable to explore due to lack of material from LD himself or from critics or friends. Thus, without sufficient quotable evidence, he felt unable to postulate. Bruce is right. We are onto something here and the Bocklin/Myers idea intrigues and inspires. Perhaps, indeed the male cast of DL are multiple parts of a troubled Durrell in search of salvation and the female cast are many Nancy's.....? yes, and the central theme of guilt, first marriage gone bad and all.....mmmm David From: Bruce Redwine Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:00 AM To: Durrell list Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Meta, Thanks for the interest. The essay, however, is in the research stage and far from being completed. I consider The Dark Labyrinth ((1947) important, but Durrell himself didn't, T. S. Eliot didn't, nor do many participants on the ILDS list-serve. The last is not a controversial statement ? simply look at the lack of enthusiasm for any kind of discussion about the novel. I doubt that many have read it, or, if they have, they categorize it as genre fiction. Critical studies of DL are also meager. Why? My previous comments about Durrell's need to produce "big works" may have relevance. Also pertinent, I think, is how one chooses to view LGD as a writer. If you want to consider him a writer of serious postmodern fiction, then DL is not your meat. It has a traditional form and doesn't have Durrell's distinctive poetic complexity. On the other hand, if you're interested in Durrell's spiritual development, then the novel has much to offer. I've already suggested that Durrell may have picked up the title from Miller's Time of the Assassins, a very spiritual book about that highly mysterious figure, Arthur Rimbaud. DL also lends itself to psychoanalytic interpretations. Guilt is an underlying theme in the novel, as Baird's psychoanalysis and his visit to the old abbot show. At this point in his life, LGD was working through his divorce from Nancy Myers (finalized in 1947) and probably had some things to feel guilty about. I am intrigued by the German soldier B?cklin, whom Baird kills and who is the source of his guilt. Another German Bocklin (without the umlaut) appears in Prospero's Cell. Moreover, B?cklin is also the name of a Swiss artist, Arnold B?cklin. Nancy Myers was an artist. I wonder if the B?cklin in DL is a screen for Nancy. Bruce On May 4, 2011, at 4:45 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: Bruce, I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. Best regards, Meta ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Meta, I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. Bruce On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? Best regards Meta Cerar Ljubljana, Slovenia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM To: Durrel Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. David 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 + 61 2 9564 6165 0412 707 625 www.denisetart.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/b1ff4b5a/attachment.html From laurapais7 at gmail.com Thu May 5 02:04:18 2011 From: laurapais7 at gmail.com (laura pais) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:04:18 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: DEAR DURRELLIANS, I AM PART OF THE ILDS LIST-SERVE BUT NOT OF THE GROUP THAT DO NOT CONSIDER IMPORTANT THE DARK LABYRINTH ON THE CONTRARY, MY THESIS IS ABOUT THE DARK LABYRINTH AND I AGREE WITH META: DL IS ONE OF DURRELL'S BEST PIECES! BEST REGARDS LAURA 2011/5/4 Bruce Redwine : > Meta, > Thanks for the interest. ?The essay, however, is in the research stage and > far from being completed. ?I consider?The Dark Labyrinth?((1947) important, > but Durrell himself didn't, T. S. Eliot didn't, nor do many participants on > the ILDS list-serve. ?The last is not a controversial statement ? simply > look at the lack of enthusiasm for any kind of discussion about the novel. > ?I doubt that many have read it, or, if they have, they categorize it as > genre fiction. ?Critical studies of?DL?are also meager. ?Why? ?My previous > comments about Durrell's need to produce "big works" may have relevance. > ?Also pertinent, I think, is how one chooses to view LGD as a writer. ?If > you want to consider him a writer of?serious postmodern?fiction, then?DL?is > not your meat. ?It has a traditional form and doesn't have Durrell's > distinctive poetic complexity. ?On the other hand, if you're interested in > Durrell's spiritual development, then the novel has much to offer. ?I've > already suggested that Durrell may have picked up the title from > Miller's?Time of the Assassins, a very spiritual book about that highly > mysterious figure, Arthur Rimbaud. ?DL?also lends itself to psychoanalytic > interpretations. ?Guilt is an underlying theme in the novel, as Baird's > psychoanalysis and his visit to the old abbot show. ?At this point in his > life, LGD was working through his divorce from Nancy Myers (finalized in > 1947) and probably had some things to feel guilty about. ?I am intrigued by > the German soldier B?cklin, whom Baird kills and who is the source of his > guilt. ?Another German Bocklin (without the umlaut) appears in?Prospero's > Cell.??Moreover, B?cklin is also the name of a Swiss artist, Arnold B?cklin. > ?Nancy Myers was an artist. ?I wonder if the B?cklin in?DL?is a screen for > Nancy. > > Bruce > > > > On May 4, 2011, at 4:45 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > > Bruce, > I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're > working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the > publication of Dark Labyrinth. > Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and > through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really > nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional > remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it > reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I > am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to > Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in > relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. > I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well > as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of > Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the > AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World > chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery > and the character of the old abbot. > I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book > than Durrell's biographers. > > Best regards, > Meta > > ________________________________ > From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On > Behalf Of?Bruce Redwine > Sent:?Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM > To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc:?Bruce Redwine > Subject:?[ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > > Meta, > > I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, > which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." > ?David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those > characteristics. ?I too find?The Dark Labyrinth?an extraordinary work of > fiction. ?Why did Durrell dismiss it? ?I'd guess because it didn't fit in > which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the > need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic > fashion). ?Yes, that's hard. ?But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's > observations?(Critical Inquiry?7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not > always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're > succeeding or not. ?As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into > some mythological unknown was there at an early age. ?In a letter to Henry > Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in > the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young > Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of > Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the > World in?DL. ?Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that > Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. ?Read his letters > to?ch?res m?re et s?ur.??No matter. ?The idea of pastoral is more important > than facts. > > > Bruce > > > > > On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM,?Meta Cerar?wrote: > > This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other > Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth > (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why > Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a > potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly > ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which > were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something > similar)? > Best regards > Meta Cerar > Ljubljana, Slovenia > > ________________________________ > From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On > Behalf Of?Denise Tart & David Green > Sent:?Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM > To:?Durrel > Subject:?[ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness > > LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety > of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the > transcendental quest for spirit of place?. it pervades all his work and no > finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery > of the Tibetan upland!? My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of > spiritual upland?when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the > Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side > he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and > pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the > three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and > something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger > when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his > best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found > writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and > female American uni students. > > > David > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > + 61 2 9564 6165 > 0412 707 625 > www.denisetart.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > From laurapais at tiscali.it Thu May 5 02:23:23 2011 From: laurapais at tiscali.it (laurapais at tiscali.it) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:23:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [ilds] dark labyrinth Message-ID: <25172616.57701304587403708.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> DEAR DURRELLIANS, I AM PART OF THE ILDS LIST-SERVE BUT NOT OF THE GROUP THAT DO NOT CONSIDER IMPORTANT THE DARK LABYRINTH ON THE CONTRARY, MY THESIS IS ABOUT THE DARK LABYRINTH (I WILL CONCLUDE IT AT THE END OF THIS YEAR) AND I AGREE WITH META: DL IN ONE OF DURRELL'S BEST PIECES! MY BEST LAURA Non temiamo alcun confronto: Tiscali ha l'Adsl pi? veloce d'Italia! Risparmia con Tutto Incluso Light: Voce + Adsl 20 mega a soli 17,95 ? al mese per 12 mesi. http://abbonati.tiscali.it/telefono-adsl/prodotti/tc/tuttoincluso_light/?WT.mc_id=01fw From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Thu May 5 08:02:35 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 11:02:35 -0400 Subject: [ilds] dark labyrinth In-Reply-To: <25172616.57701304587403708.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> References: <25172616.57701304587403708.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Message-ID: <4DC2BC0B.7000703@utc.edu> On 5/5/11 5:23 AM, laurapais at tiscali.it wrote: > I AM PART OF THE ILDS LIST-SERVE BUT NOT OF THE GROUP > THAT DO NOT CONSIDER IMPORTANT THE DARK LABYRINTH ON THE CONTRARY, MY > THESIS IS ABOUT THE DARK LABYRINTH (I WILL CONCLUDE IT AT THE END OF > THIS YEAR) AND I AGREE WITH META: DL IN ONE OF DURRELL'S BEST PIECES! Good luck with the thesis, Laura. We have much to learn! Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/4eea9660/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Thu May 5 09:17:38 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 09:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> Message-ID: <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the successor to Monsieur. Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites us, because we have been trained to?act as snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? RP ________________________________ From: Meta Cerar To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Bruce, I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. ? Best regards, Meta ? ________________________________ From:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth ? Meta, ? I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." ?David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. ?I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. ?Why did Durrell dismiss it? ?I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). ?Yes, that's hard. ?But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. ?As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. ?In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. ?Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. ?Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. ?No matter. ?The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. ? ? Bruce ? ? ? ? On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? Best regards Meta Cerar Ljubljana, Slovenia ? ________________________________ From:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM To: Durrel Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness ? LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place?. it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland!? My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland?when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. ? ? David 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 + 61 2 9564 6165 0412 707 625 www.denisetart.com.au _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/f7b8a2d7/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Thu May 5 09:47:30 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 12:47:30 -0400 Subject: [ilds] the whole octave In-Reply-To: <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC2D4A2.5080309@utc.edu> On 5/5/11 12:17 PM, Richard Pine wrote: > LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits > to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I > HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends > that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or > Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Well said, and passionately put, Richard. Here's to carrying "the whole octave" -- C&c. -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/a2895045/attachment.html From pan.gero at hotmail.com Thu May 5 09:37:42 2011 From: pan.gero at hotmail.com (Panaiotis Gerontopulos) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:37:42 +0300 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Pope Joan too? From: Richard Pine Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:17 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the successor to Monsieur. Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites us, because we have been trained to act as snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? RP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Meta Cerar To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Bruce, I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. Best regards, Meta -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Meta, I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. Bruce On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? Best regards Meta Cerar Ljubljana, Slovenia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM To: Durrel Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. David 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 + 61 2 9564 6165 0412 707 625 www.denisetart.com.au _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/b4ef3d1b/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu May 5 10:23:05 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 10:23:05 -0700 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) > We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the successor to Monsieur. > Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. > Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites us, because we have been trained to act as snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh > So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? > RP > > From: Meta Cerar > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > > Bruce, > I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. > Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. > I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. > > Best regards, > Meta > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > > Meta, > > I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. > > > Bruce > > > > > On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > > > This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? > Best regards > Meta Cerar > Ljubljana, Slovenia > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM > To: Durrel > Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness > > LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. > > > David > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > + 61 2 9564 6165 > 0412 707 625 > www.denisetart.com.au > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/e83667ce/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Thu May 5 10:50:22 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 03:50:22 +1000 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5443A795EF4A44F18D318AC55D81E182@DenisePC> So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? RP I would say, humbly, that critical considerations and extra textual considerations, especially those that relate to a writer's psyche and personal experience of the world are an essential part of a books worth and precisely why we find them fascinating, study them and read them. I also question whether any of the comments lately suggest agonizing; attempts and discussion and interest, certainly. David Green -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/310aee5a/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu May 5 13:33:41 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:33:41 -0700 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <5443A795EF4A44F18D318AC55D81E182@DenisePC> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <5443A795EF4A44F18D318AC55D81E182@DenisePC> Message-ID: <5D460DBA-D1F8-4D1A-BD44-D63A94EE1B9F@earthlink.net> David, well said. I agree entirely. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? > RP > > I would say, humbly, that critical considerations and extra textual considerations, especially those that relate to a writer's psyche and personal experience of the world are an essential part of a books worth and precisely why we find them fascinating, study them and read them. I also question whether any of the comments lately suggest agonizing; attempts and discussion and interest, certainly. > > David Green > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/a6bfe601/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Thu May 5 13:35:30 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:35:30 -0400 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DC30A12.3080106@utc.edu> On 5/5/11 1:23 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of > critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury > mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we > should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD > and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a > critical discussion, in my opinion. I will let Richard speak for Richard, Bruce. Richard, Meta, and Laura are all advocates for /The Dark Labyrinth/. If I understand your previous notes, Bruce -- and it is possible that I have not understood them at all -- I think that you are also an advocate for /The Dark Labyrinth/. Good enough. When I read his note, I thought that Richard was making an observation about the peculiar fashions and politics that have made critics dismissive of certain works -- or, in certain cases I could cite, /all/ works -- by Lawrence Durrell. Richard disagrees with such terms. They frame the discussion in such a way as to exclude a writer or a work that does not fit arbitrary measures, and they often labor to ulterior purposes, political or moral ends resting somewhere beyond the writer or work at hand. I think that I might be somewhere close to Richard on this point. That is, within my admittedly subjective limits of attention, understanding, and enthusiasm, I try to give myself over to each literary work for its own sake, for the sake of experiencing its own particular, distinctive pleasures. This liberty of the heart and mind brings me a keen enjoyment. (I fancy that Lawrence Durrell taught me how -- my thanks!) It also is an education in humility, reminding me that I must learn so very very much on this short day of frost and sun. . . . Good luck to all of you with this reconsideration of an overlooked book. Since facts do matter, I hope that someone who is interested in this topic will share specific quotes from critics who have written dismissively or disparagingly about /The Dark Labyrinth/. I can't name a single one. But then all of this is an education for me! Remember, lack of critical attention is not, by itself, dismissive. The limits of page allotments, the vagaries of publishers and editors, and an ignorance of unheralded virtue might just as easily explain the lack of address. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/60abffe1/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu May 5 14:03:49 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:03:49 -0700 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <4DC30A12.3080106@utc.edu> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <4DC30A12.3080106@utc.edu> Message-ID: Charles, All along I have been saying The Dark Labyrinth is a remarkable work and deserving full recognition of its accomplishment. I am not willing, however, to take Richard Pine's injunction and to stop "extra-textual considerations." Pine should step forward and explain exactly what he means. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Charles Sligh wrote: > On 5/5/11 1:23 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. > I will let Richard speak for Richard, Bruce. > > Richard, Meta, and Laura are all advocates for The Dark Labyrinth. If I understand your previous notes, Bruce -- and it is possible that I have not understood them at all -- I think that you are also an advocate for The Dark Labyrinth. Good enough. > > When I read his note, I thought that Richard was making an observation about the peculiar fashions and politics that have made critics dismissive of certain works -- or, in certain cases I could cite, all works -- by Lawrence Durrell. Richard disagrees with such terms. They frame the discussion in such a way as to exclude a writer or a work that does not fit arbitrary measures, and they often labor to ulterior purposes, political or moral ends resting somewhere beyond the writer or work at hand. > > I think that I might be somewhere close to Richard on this point. That is, within my admittedly subjective limits of attention, understanding, and enthusiasm, I try to give myself over to each literary work for its own sake, for the sake of experiencing its own particular, distinctive pleasures. This liberty of the heart and mind brings me a keen enjoyment. (I fancy that Lawrence Durrell taught me how -- my thanks!) It also is an education in humility, reminding me that I must learn so very very much on this short day of frost and sun. . . . > > Good luck to all of you with this reconsideration of an overlooked book. Since facts do matter, I hope that someone who is interested in this topic will share specific quotes from critics who have written dismissively or disparagingly about The Dark Labyrinth. I can't name a single one. But then all of this is an education for me! Remember, lack of critical attention is not, by itself, dismissive. The limits of page allotments, the vagaries of publishers and editors, and an ignorance of unheralded virtue might just as easily explain the lack of address. > > Charles > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/aed717b1/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Thu May 5 15:37:56 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 18:37:56 -0400 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <4DC30A12.3080106@utc.edu> Message-ID: <4DC326C4.9070101@utc.edu> On 5/5/11 5:03 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > All along I have been saying /The Dark Labyrinth/ is a remarkable > work and deserving full recognition of its accomplishment. I am > not willing, however, to take Richard Pine's injunction and to > stop "extra-textual considerations." Thanks for that, Bruce. Each plays upon his or her own fiddle, "/will ye/, /nil ye/," of course. It is a really interesting problem to ponder, actually -- different readers and their elective pleasures. Good luck with /The Dark Labyrinth/ -- an interesting choice, and I have much to learn! Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/6efabb96/attachment.html From marc at marcpiel.fr Thu May 5 16:56:10 2011 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 01:56:10 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DC3391A.9060904@marcpiel.fr> And do you call it critical when you announce "..... nor do many participants on the ILDS list-serve". What quantifiable evidence do you have of this???? ... or should we all sit around and say "bravo" Bruce ( BB) , non of us could have critically thought that out! I have been at loggerheads with you in the past for just this sort of unsupported affirmations, that you try to foist on the list. Marc Le 05/05/11 19:23, Bruce Redwine a ?crit : > "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual > considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? > now what does all that sound and fury mean? I > guess it means that all discussion should end, > and we should all sit around the campfire and > sing the praises of LGD and say how much we > enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a > critical discussion, in my opinion. > > > Bruce > > > > On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >> I think we should educate ourselves out of the >> literary snobbism in which most of us have been >> trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a >> 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer >> either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said >> to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both >> Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an >> appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - >> inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's >> 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be >> forgiven for wondering how she could have >> possibly expressed such banal, untenable >> opinions about major authors of whom she did >> not approve.) >> We have to remember that LD very early on tried >> to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' >> and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But >> he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he >> called it) book followed by one lighter book. >> He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me >> as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the >> successor to Monsieur. >> Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too >> much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough >> Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the >> problem goes away. >> Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light >> all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT >> WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It >> is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us >> to think that way. What is it? It's what LD >> himself described as 'British critics suffering >> from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy >> lauding the 'real' books that we think it >> inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge >> the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want >> to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at >> admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites >> us, because we have been trained to act as >> snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom >> meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND >> Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO >> PATIENCE with the school of thought which >> pretends that we have to make a special case >> for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. >> Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a >> po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most >> cases. And then there are those toilet-trained >> in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about >> anything they've read until they have decided >> what Derrida might have thought. They don't >> deserve to be critics at all, because they >> haven't got a mind of their own, not even a >> Leavisite one. Urrrgh >> So could we please stop agonising about whether >> DL is a great book or even an important book, >> and just read the damn thing for what it is >> worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual >> considerations, free of critical prejudice? >> RP >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> *From:*Meta Cerar > > >> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> *Sent:*Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >> >> Bruce, >> I would be most grateful if you could send me >> this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm >> preparing an article about Durrell to accompany >> the publication of Dark Labyrinth. >> Recently I went through both biographies >> (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the >> collection of D's most important interviews, >> and nowhere, really nowhere have I found >> anything on the DL except very brief and >> occassional remarks. If it may be right that >> Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects >> his own life and philosophy and there was ?too >> much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this >> attitude on the part of his biographers was due >> to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought >> the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to >> other works of D's as to deserve no more than a >> casual mention. I'd really like to clarify >> this, so I would appreciate your opinion as >> well as the opinions of other list members. I >> think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best >> pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that >> appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more >> recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World >> chapter I especially like the chapter about >> Baird's visit to the monastery and the >> character of the old abbot. >> I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be >> more appreciative of the book than Durrell's >> biographers. >> >> Best regards, >> Meta >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine >> *Sent:*Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM >> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> *Cc:*Bruce Redwine >> *Subject:*[ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >> >> Meta, >> >> I'm currently working on an essay dealing with >> Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include >> aspects of his peculiar "transcendental >> dimension." David Green below encapsulates >> well, as you note, some of those >> characteristics. I too find/The Dark >> Labyrinth/an extraordinary work of fiction. >> Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because >> it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for >> making his mark on world literature (hence the >> need to produce "big works," "man-size >> piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). >> Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on >> Frank Kermode's observations/(Critical >> Inquiry/7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are >> not always in full control of their material >> and don't always know when they're succeeding >> or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, >> the escape into some mythological unknown was >> there at an early age. In a letter to Henry >> Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, >> "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The >> statement is problematic, but I take it to mean >> that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur >> Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, >> i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not >> unlike the Roof of the World in/DL/. Of >> course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is >> that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in >> remote East Africa. Read his letters to/ch?res >> m?re et s?ur./ No matter. The idea of pastoral >> is more important than facts. >> >> Bruce >> >> On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: >> >> >> This is beautifully put, thank you for this >> post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also >> find the transcendental dimension in the Dark >> Labyrinth (which I recently translated into >> Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell >> himself was so dismissive of this novel? >> Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay >> for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it >> hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and >> not even once in the interviews which were >> compiled into a book (I think the author was >> Ingersoll or something similar)? >> Best regards >> Meta Cerar >> Ljubljana, Slovenia >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >> Behalf Of*Denise Tart & David Green >> *Sent:*Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM >> *To:*Durrel >> *Subject:*[ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of >> Happiness >> >> LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought >> enlightenment through a variety of faiths and >> beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and >> of the transcendental quest for spirit of >> place . it pervades all his work and no finer >> example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and >> the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan >> upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many >> elements of spiritual upland when, after the >> bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi >> with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at >> the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the >> woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - >> writing and pottering about his farm. The other >> day Denise said that she heard that the three >> pillars of happiness are: someone to love, >> something to do and something to look forward >> to. I only add that the second pillar is >> stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all >> those when with Claude and it was his best time >> as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not >> have love, found writing more difficult and had >> only the bottle to look forward to ...and >> female American uni students. >> >> David >> 16 William Street >> Marrickville NSW 2204 >> + 61 2 9564 6165 >> 0412 707 625 >> www.denisetart.com.au >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/9bcb99aa/attachment-0001.html From marc at marcpiel.fr Thu May 5 17:38:52 2011 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 02:38:52 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The White House/Israel___Cairo/Riyadh Axis. Hiding the Black Book In-Reply-To: <172054.75659.qm@web161407.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <560514.39799.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <172054.75659.qm@web161407.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC3431C.1000900@marcpiel.fr> For those of you who are interested with the inside Egypt point of view. This was sent to me by my friend the other side of Alexandria. B.R. Marc it explains a lot!!! http://countbernadotte.blogspot.com/2011/04/at-one-time-tantawi-thought-that-all.html?spref=fb The White House/Israel___Cairo/Riyadh Axis. Hiding the Black Book ** *The White House/Israel * *Cairo/Riyadh Axis. * *Hiding the Black Book* There are those who know that what is taking place in the wings is far, far greater than what is being promulgated to the public for consumption. Mubarak?s is a case for careful examination and should never be taken for granted. Information coming from private sources inside the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces tells a story, part of which is now well known and the remaining is subject to many speculations. But Mubarak?s destiny had been discussed and concrete steps had been taken different from what the public have been told. Mubarak will not be tried. Mubarak?s investigation will be farcical in nature, and designed only to mollify and placate the angry public. *Lt. Genral Sammy Anan With US Counterpart* To understand how events have progressed, and for everything to make sense, a brief background may be necessary for anyone who had not been there in Tahrir physically or digitally. In the early hours of the revolution, there were very few exchanges with the Americans, if any. But during the early days, most of the exchanges, were reciprocal information between the White House Specialists on the Middle East and Tantawi?s Office in Kobreyl Qubbah as well as Joint General Command in Madinet Nassr. Very few were fielded to O?roobah Palace in Heliopolis to Mubarak himself. America had no precise information on the timing or scope of the event. Much like Mubarak's regime, the US embassy Cairo had heard rumors and read digital messages but that was it. The US embassy?s Maggie Scobey was taken by surprise and could not provide any intelligence to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The White House had no choice but to rely on Pentagon?s communication with Lt. General Sammy Annan, who, early on was at the Pentagon and had to cut his visit short when the temperature of Tahrir rose to a critical level. The White House obtained a very solid promise from Lt. General Sammy Annan that he would dismiss any order to use the army against the civilian population. That promise was obtained from General Annan while he was in DC at the pentagon, and was confirmed several times after his return to his Office at Joint General Command in Madinet Nassr. General Annan discussed this heatedly with Field Marshal Tantawi, who while had no objection to the principle, resented that his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should have made that decision and given such promises without deferring the matter to him first. US Zionist Jew Joe Lieberman Eventually, however, they both put the matter behind them especially when the difference was one of order and chain of command as well as military decorum rather than disagreement on duty and strategy. Lt. General Annan, however, was not 100% certain of his Boss' absolute and incontrovertible stance on initial action. After January 28^th , both Tantawi and Annan, along with all senior members of the Brass had no squabble on what their action should be, and with Mubarak?s intransigence, leading to ordering the army to crush the uprising by any and all means necessary, a decision was made to isolate him and his Old Crone along with their son the minute they sensed that they did not have a president, but a family acting as if they were monarchs or the royal overlords of the land. Air Marshal Reda Mahmoud Hafez; Commanding General of the Air force ordered Cairo-West air base?s commanding officer to dispatch a squadron from their fighter air wing to fly ?greeting formation? passes over Tahrir Square to reassure the millions that Egypt?s armed forces were on their side. Unfortunately neither the protesters nor the press understood what ?Greeting Formation? flights were and thought that the F-16 fighter jets screaming over their heads were exhibiting hostile intentions against the civilians and gave defying fist signs with roaring cries as if to say, ?We?re not scared of you.? ... Even foreign media were confused and reported this as a warning of impending aerial bombardment or scare tactics. All those events were taking place while intensive communication was underway between the Tantawi-Annan team and the White House through the Pentagon to ensure that the Military was standing by the people or at least standing neutral. It was. But the communication had delved into a different topic altogether. The US was scared out of its wits and worried about all the dirty secrets between the US-Israel and Cairo-Riyadh axis. Once the regime had fallen and was out of all official channels of communication, the US turned its attention to ensuring its strategic interests were not being threatened. The US had full confidence in the military institution but had no idea what the popular uprising might draw into the theater of influence in Egypt. This prompted intensive direct talks between the parties. High level Congressional envoys including the most ardent Zionists of them all arrived one after another for closed door talks with Tantawi. They discussed Israel, the treaties, The Muslim Groups and the *Mubaraks*. Britain?s Prime minister came to talk with both Tantawi and Ahmad Shafiq (then acting prime minister) regarding Muslim groups, Israel, the Treaties and the *Mubaraks*& his money. They also discussed, apparently, the imperative for a European standard legal proceedings against convicted members of the ousted regime. Tantawi wasted no time allaying British concern regarding military tribunals. David Cameron was impressed by what he heard from Tantawi regardong the deeply rooted traditions of Egypt's Judiciary system which has direct roots in both French and British counterparts. The EU sent its chief of parliament to discuss Muslim groups, election, and transfer of power. They also discussed *Mubarak* and the looted funds in EU banks as well as string attachments to EU financial assistance. But perhaps one of the more sensitive issues about which, the EU was concerned, had to do with the nature of future trials for members of the deposed regime and whether capital punishment would ever be considered especially when there were close to 1000 killed by police snipers and assault including children and infants. French President Sarkozy dispatched both his Prime Minster and Foreign Minister to discuss Muslim Groups, Israel, the Treaties, and the Mubaraks. ? At one time Tantawi thought that all those high level envoys were on Mubarak?s Death-Will, lining up to inherit his Loot! Tantawi was also dismayed by the incredible and hypocritical degree of paranoia regarding Muslim groups while Muslims were being persecuted and targeted by Christian Extremists everywhere in their countries EU Parliament Zionist Jewess Ashton Tantawi had to give assurances that all national Security secrets would remain 100% protected and Mubarak himself would be protected by the army. Tantawi-Annan had to agree to provide the US with assurances that, in exchange for his resignation, Mubarak would not be subject to any uncontrolled proceedings such as public Kangaroo Trials where, he would have to blurt out all state secrets. This explains the army?s frantic reaction once State Security Buildings were compromised by the revolution and revolutionary elements had invaded several buildings, and documents were grabbed. The US was quick to immediately send extremely loud alarms to protect or destroy those documents and leave no paper trails. Digital files were rescued and the military kept them in highly secured archives. The US was very pleased with the military?s quick reaction. All documents destructions were sanctioned and pre-approved by Tantawi or his assistants. All State Security officers who were arrested for documents destruction without specific orders were subsequently released. No action was taken against them nor were they subject to any investigation. The public was given various cover stories that had been pre-rehearsed. Tantawi's policy with remnants of the old regime's police apparatus was pragmatic. The police is not the State Security, yet State Security is a crucial division of the police. All the police excesses which were unforgivable by the people were equally unforgivable by the military. The dilemma resided in what to do with internal security should a decision for collective punishment be taken? Undoubtedly many police personnel acted in pure criminal fashion. They were arrested and are still in detention pending trials. The question remained, however, that despite the fact that the people's demands to dismantle the entire police apparatus are valid, no government, be it as it may, transitional, civilian or military could just dispense with the nation's police apparatus and replace it with a fresh replacement. What Marshall Tantawi did was all he could do with what he had to maintain law and order, and even at that, law and order had either disintegrated or suffered severe blows in many parts of the country even with many units of the army acting as police to help in maintaining the security of the street. France's Zionist Half Jew Sarkozy The question of the family Loot was a very delicate matter and it was agreed that it would not be discussed until sufficient information was gathered and collected. Contrary to what the public and press had been told, The Old Crone and Her Two sons did travel abroad on the private jet several times, apparently, to take care of family Loot. Marshal Tantawi put an end to it once the Flight Crew complained that they were being coerced by the Old Crone to break the rules. Meanwhile, across the ocean in the US, The Mubarak?s attorney in Washington DC, in what was described as one of the greatest blunders of US State Department's recent history of gaffes, was summoned by Hillary Clinton, and was designated her special envoy to Egypt. He arrived in Egypt, met the Mubaraks, and received instructions on what action to take regarding the family Loot. Nobody in Egypt was certain whether this was not on purpose. circumstances, however, do suggest that it was not just another gaffe. Communication between Riyadh and Sharm el Sheikh continued, and representatives of the Fat, pot-bellied King in Riyadh came to meet Tantawi to ensure that all their state secrets would be protected and that Mubarak would not be subjected to humiliating public trials for fear of copy-cats in their own countries. Financial deals were struck contrary to what the public were told. Many scenarios were discussed with the US and the Gulf States with regard to Mubarak. The general outlines were: public outrage would be contained with carefully orchestrated arrest and investigation proceedings giving the impression that there was no special considerations. Eventually, however, he would be exonerated of the most serious charges of murder and high treason. All other charges of corruption and profiteering would be dropped purely on humanitarian grounds provided the loot is returned to the public treasury. US Zionist Jewess Maggie Scobey & Shafiq Egypt?s external debt is $59 Billion Dollars. The financial deal had to do with assisting Egypt with addressing this insidious and horrific burden that was caused by none other than Mubarak himself, for whom many highly interested parties are, apparently, requesting special treatment. The Question of restitution came up. Deals had to be struck, and while the details are national security secrets, the general outlines have to do with whatever assets smuggled to Gulf area banks. Those funds will be quietly returned to Egypt in any form Egypt may dictate while handling the matter delicately and with anonymity for all parties concerned. All funds that Egypt could regain independently from outside the Gulf area shall be matched 1:1 until the entire amount of Egypt's external debt is settled. Financial arrangements, other than the returned looted money, shall take place in the form of treaties signed by future government to render all transactions legal and official; Meanwhile, Mubarak's case must be handled with extreme delicacy. The US may have had good reasons to believe they owed Mubarak at least the semblance of dignity after 30 years of loyal service to his masters in Tel Aviv and the White House. This explains their repeated pleas to spare Mubarak the indignity of public humiliation. The Military had no quarrel with the concept, however, public outrage has compelled Tantawi to tell Hillary Clinton's envoys that Egypt has to do what it must ... Albeit, delicately. The Arabians had all the good reasons (in their views) to treat Mubarak and his family with utmost decorum and honor. After all, they are all the same type of despotic and decrepit dictatorial heaps. And for considerations of national interests, Tantawi had to yield to diplomatic initiatives to satisfy both internal public demands and external interests, provided those interests were of benefit to national security. Whether under arrest, prosecuted or pardoned, the military will remember the requests for special treatment and its own lack of desire to humiliate the former dictator, however, no promises were made for extending the special considerations to his family. If any, such considerations would be strictly stemming from the nature of the post-revolutionary political milieu, and evidence is already showing signs that, in Egypt, this is the norm. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11284eaa/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 18%281%29.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 40436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11284eaa/attachment-0016.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: British-prime-minister-David-Cameron-210x300.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7090 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11284eaa/attachment-0027.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: w1_12_3_2011_37_12.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6490 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11284eaa/attachment-0028.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sarkozy-bruni-404_668663c.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11284eaa/attachment-0029.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mideast_Egypt_Thir_s284x200.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8664 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11284eaa/attachment-0030.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tantawi.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10558 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11284eaa/attachment-0031.jpg From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu May 5 19:24:18 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:24:18 -0700 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <4DC3391A.9060904@marcpiel.fr> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <4DC3391A.9060904@marcpiel.fr> Message-ID: <298EBA00-9267-4978-B83A-6151BD50E2B6@earthlink.net> What evidence? Check out the postings over the last five years. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Marc Piel wrote: > And do you call it critical when you announce "..... nor do many participants on the ILDS list-serve". > What quantifiable evidence do you have of this???? > > ... or should we all sit around and say "bravo" Bruce ( BB) , non of us could have critically thought that out! > > I have been at loggerheads with you in the past for just this sort of unsupported affirmations, that you try to foist on the list. > > Marc > > Le 05/05/11 19:23, Bruce Redwine a ?crit : >> >> "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >> >>> I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) >>> We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the successor to Monsieur. >>> Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. >>> Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites us, because we have been trained to act as snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh >>> So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? >>> RP >>> >>> From: Meta Cerar >>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>> Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >>> >>> Bruce, >>> I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. >>> Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. >>> I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Meta >>> >>> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine >>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM >>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>> Cc: Bruce Redwine >>> Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >>> >>> Meta, >>> >>> I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. >>> >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: >>> >>> >>> This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? >>> Best regards >>> Meta Cerar >>> Ljubljana, Slovenia >>> >>> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green >>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM >>> To: Durrel >>> Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness >>> >>> LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. >>> >>> >>> David >>> 16 William Street >>> Marrickville NSW 2204 >>> + 61 2 9564 6165 >>> 0412 707 625 >>> www.denisetart.com.au >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/e1beb1ba/attachment.html From billyapt at gmail.com Thu May 5 20:50:07 2011 From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 22:50:07 -0500 Subject: [ilds] The White House/Israel___Cairo/Riyadh Axis. Hiding the Black Book In-Reply-To: <4DC3431C.1000900@marcpiel.fr> References: <560514.39799.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <172054.75659.qm@web161407.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC3431C.1000900@marcpiel.fr> Message-ID: <460832BA-AD50-4FD6-9899-D80C5A183BA2@gmail.com> How does this screed relate to LD, his work, or his ideas? Be specific, cite your sources, and refrain from political partisanship so that you won't be confirmed as the obnoxious, inappropriate crank that you appear to be. WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2011, at 7:38 PM, Marc Piel wrote: > For those of you who are interested with the inside Egypt point of view. > This was sent to me by my friend the other side of Alexandria. > B.R. > Marc > > it explains a lot!!! > > > > http://countbernadotte.blogspot.com/2011/04/at-one-time-tantawi-thought-that-all.html?spref=fb > > > The White House/Israel___Cairo/Riyadh Axis. Hiding the Black Book > > > > > <18%281%29.jpg> > > > The White House/Israel > > Cairo/Riyadh Axis. > > Hiding the Black Book > > > > > There are those who know that what is taking place in the wings is far, far greater than what is being promulgated to the public for consumption. Mubarak?s is a case for careful examination and should never be taken for granted. > > Information coming from private sources inside the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces tells a story, part of which is now well known and the remaining is subject to many speculations. But Mubarak?s destiny had been discussed and concrete steps had been taken different from what the public have been told. Mubarak will not be tried. Mubarak?s investigation will be farcical in nature, and designed only to mollify and placate the angry public. > > Lt. Genral Sammy Anan With US Counterpart > <800px-Sami_Anan.jpg>To understand how events have progressed, and for everything to make sense, a brief background may be necessary for anyone who had not been there in Tahrir physically or digitally. > > In the early hours of the revolution, there were very few exchanges with the Americans, if any. But during the early days, most of the exchanges, were reciprocal information between the White House Specialists on the Middle East and Tantawi?s Office in Kobreyl Qubbah as well as Joint General Command in Madinet Nassr. Very few were fielded to O?roobah Palace in Heliopolis to Mubarak himself. > > America had no precise information on the timing or scope of the event. Much like Mubarak's regime, the US embassy Cairo had heard rumors and read digital messages but that was it. The US embassy?s Maggie Scobey was taken by surprise and could not provide any intelligence to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The White House had no choice but to rely on Pentagon?s communication with Lt. General Sammy Annan, who, early on was at the Pentagon and had to cut his visit short when the temperature of Tahrir rose to a critical level. > > The White House obtained a very solid promise from Lt. General Sammy Annan that he would dismiss any order to use the army against the civilian population. That promise was obtained from General Annan while he was in DC at the pentagon, and was confirmed several times after his return to his Office at Joint General Command in Madinet Nassr. > > General Annan discussed this heatedly with Field Marshal Tantawi, who while had no objection to the principle, resented that his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should have made that decision and given such promises without deferring the matter to him first. > US Zionist Jew Joe Lieberman > Eventually, however, they both put the matter behind them especially when the difference was one of order and chain of command as well as military decorum rather than disagreement on duty and strategy. Lt. General Annan, however, was not 100% certain of his Boss' absolute and incontrovertible stance on initial action. > > > After January 28th, both Tantawi and Annan, along with all senior members of the Brass had no squabble on what their action should be, and with Mubarak?s intransigence, leading to ordering the army to crush the uprising by any and all means necessary, a decision was made to isolate him and his Old Crone along with their son the minute they sensed that they did not have a president, but a family acting as if they were monarchs or the royal overlords of the land. > > > Air Marshal Reda Mahmoud Hafez; Commanding General of the Air force ordered Cairo-West air base?s commanding officer to dispatch a squadron from their fighter air wing to fly ?greeting formation? passes over Tahrir Square to reassure the millions that Egypt?s armed forces were on their side. Unfortunately neither the protesters nor the press understood what ?Greeting Formation? flights were and thought that the F-16 fighter jets screaming over their heads were exhibiting hostile intentions against the civilians and gave defying fist signs with roaring cries as if to say, ?We?re not scared of you.? ... Even foreign media were confused and reported this as a warning of impending aerial bombardment or scare tactics. > > All those events were taking place while intensive communication was underway between the Tantawi-Annan team and the White House through the Pentagon to ensure that the Military was standing by the people or at least standing neutral. It was. But the communication had delved into a different topic altogether. The US was scared out of its wits and worried about all the dirty secrets between the US-Israel and Cairo-Riyadh axis. > > Once the regime had fallen and was out of all official channels of communication, the US turned its attention to ensuring its strategic interests were not being threatened. The US had full confidence in the military institution but had no idea what the popular uprising might draw into the theater of influence in Egypt. This prompted intensive direct talks between the parties. > > > High level Congressional envoys including the most ardent Zionists of them all arrived one after another for closed door talks with Tantawi. They discussed Israel, the treaties, The Muslim Groups and the Mubaraks. > > > Britain?s Prime minister came to talk with both Tantawi and Ahmad Shafiq (then acting prime minister) regarding Muslim groups, Israel, the Treaties and the Mubaraks & his money. They also discussed, apparently, the imperative for a European standard legal proceedings against convicted members of the ousted regime. Tantawi wasted no time allaying British concern regarding military tribunals. David Cameron was impressed by what he heard from Tantawi regardong the deeply rooted traditions of Egypt's Judiciary system which has direct roots in both French and British counterparts. > > > The EU sent its chief of parliament to discuss Muslim groups, election, and transfer of power. They also discussed Mubarak and the looted funds in EU banks as well as string attachments to EU financial assistance. But perhaps one of the more sensitive issues about which, the EU was concerned, had to do with the nature of future trials for members of the deposed regime and whether capital punishment would ever be considered especially when there were close to 1000 killed by police snipers and assault including children and infants. > > > French President Sarkozy dispatched both his Prime Minster and Foreign Minister to discuss Muslim Groups, Israel, the Treaties, and the Mubaraks. ? At one time Tantawi thought that all those high level envoys were on Mubarak?s Death-Will, lining up to inherit his Loot! Tantawi was also dismayed by the incredible and hypocritical degree of paranoia regarding Muslim groups while Muslims were being persecuted and targeted by Christian Extremists everywhere in their countries > > EU Parliament Zionist Jewess Ashton > > Tantawi had to give assurances that all national Security secrets would remain 100% protected and Mubarak himself would be protected by the army. Tantawi-Annan had to agree to provide the US with assurances that, in exchange for his resignation, Mubarak would not be subject to any uncontrolled proceedings such as public Kangaroo Trials where, he would have to blurt out all state secrets. > > This explains the army?s frantic reaction once State Security Buildings were compromised by the revolution and revolutionary elements had invaded several buildings, and documents were grabbed. > > > The US was quick to immediately send extremely loud alarms to protect or destroy those documents and leave no paper trails. Digital files were rescued and the military kept them in highly secured archives. The US was very pleased with the military?s quick reaction. > > > All documents destructions were sanctioned and pre-approved by Tantawi or his assistants. All State Security officers who were arrested for documents destruction without specific orders were subsequently released. No action was taken against them nor were they subject to any investigation. The public was given various cover stories that had been pre-rehearsed. > > > > Tantawi's policy with remnants of the old regime's police apparatus was pragmatic. The police is not the State Security, yet State Security is a crucial division of the police. All the police excesses which were unforgivable by the people were equally unforgivable by the military. > > > The dilemma resided in what to do with internal security should a decision for collective punishment be taken? Undoubtedly many police personnel acted in pure criminal fashion. They were arrested and are still in detention pending trials. > > > The question remained, however, that despite the fact that the people's demands to dismantle the entire police apparatus are valid, no government, be it as it may, transitional, civilian or military could just dispense with the nation's police apparatus and replace it with a fresh replacement. > > What Marshall Tantawi did was all he could do with what he had to maintain law and order, and even at that, law and order had either disintegrated or suffered severe blows in many parts of the country even with many units of the army acting as police to help in maintaining the security of the street. > > France's Zionist Half Jew Sarkozy > The question of the family Loot was a very delicate matter and it was agreed that it would not be discussed until sufficient information was gathered and collected. Contrary to what the public and press had been told, The Old Crone and Her Two sons did travel abroad on the private jet several times, apparently, to take care of family Loot. Marshal Tantawi put an end to it once the Flight Crew complained that they were being coerced by the Old Crone to break the rules. > > Meanwhile, across the ocean in the US, The Mubarak?s attorney in Washington DC, in what was described as one of the greatest blunders of US State Department's recent history of gaffes, was summoned by Hillary Clinton, and was designated her special envoy to Egypt. He arrived in Egypt, met the Mubaraks, and received instructions on what action to take regarding the family Loot. Nobody in Egypt was certain whether this was not on purpose. circumstances, however, do suggest that it was not just another gaffe. > > Communication between Riyadh and Sharm el Sheikh continued, and representatives of the Fat, pot-bellied King in Riyadh came to meet Tantawi to ensure that all their state secrets would be protected and that Mubarak would not be subjected to humiliating public trials for fear of copy-cats in their own countries. Financial deals were struck contrary to what the public were told. > > Many scenarios were discussed with the US and the Gulf States with regard to Mubarak. The general outlines were: public outrage would be contained with carefully orchestrated arrest and investigation proceedings giving the impression that there was no special considerations. Eventually, however, he would be exonerated of the most serious charges of murder and high treason. All other charges of corruption and profiteering would be dropped purely on humanitarian grounds provided the loot is returned to the public treasury. > > > US Zionist Jewess Maggie Scobey & Shafiq > > Egypt?s external debt is $59 Billion Dollars. The financial deal had to do with assisting Egypt with addressing this insidious and horrific burden that was caused by none other than Mubarak himself, for whom many highly interested parties are, apparently, requesting special treatment. The Question of restitution came up. > > > Deals had to be struck, and while the details are national security secrets, the general outlines have to do with whatever assets smuggled to Gulf area banks. Those funds will be quietly returned to Egypt in any form Egypt may dictate while handling the matter delicately and with anonymity for all parties concerned. > > > > All funds that Egypt could regain independently from outside the Gulf area shall be matched 1:1 until the entire amount of Egypt's external debt is settled. Financial arrangements, other than the returned looted money, shall take place in the form of treaties signed by future government to render all transactions legal and official; Meanwhile, Mubarak's case must be handled with extreme delicacy. > > > The US may have had good reasons to believe they owed Mubarak at least the semblance of dignity after 30 years of loyal service to his masters in Tel Aviv and the White House. This explains their repeated pleas to spare Mubarak the indignity of public humiliation. The Military had no quarrel with the concept, however, public outrage has compelled Tantawi to tell Hillary Clinton's envoys that Egypt has to do what it must ... Albeit, delicately. > > > The Arabians had all the good reasons (in their views) to treat Mubarak and his family with utmost decorum and honor. After all, they are all the same type of despotic and decrepit dictatorial heaps. And for considerations of national interests, Tantawi had to yield to diplomatic initiatives to satisfy both internal public demands and external interests, provided those interests were of benefit to national security. > > > > Whether under arrest, prosecuted or pardoned, the military will remember the requests for special treatment and its own lack of desire to humiliate the former dictator, however, no promises were made for extending the special considerations to his family. If any, such considerations would be strictly stemming from the nature of the post-revolutionary political milieu, and evidence is already showing signs that, in Egypt, this is the norm. > <18%281%29.jpg> > <800px-Sami_Anan.jpg> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110505/e6746141/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Fri May 6 00:33:55 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 00:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <4DC30A12.3080106@utc.edu> Message-ID: <513494.19599.qm@web65808.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> What I mean is, I think, self-evident: that one should come to a reading of DL, or for that matter any original text, without baggage. Read the book for what it is, not for what you think it might be. RP ________________________________ From: Bruce Redwine To: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 12:03:49 AM Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Charles, All along I have been saying The Dark Labyrinth is a remarkable work and deserving full recognition of its accomplishment. ?I am not willing, however, to take Richard Pine's injunction and to stop "extra-textual considerations." ?Pine should step forward and explain exactly what he means. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Charles Sligh wrote: On 5/5/11 1:23 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >"Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical >prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? ?I guess it means that >all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing >the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. ?Not much of >a critical discussion, in my opinion.I will let Richard speak for Richard, >Bruce.? > Richard, Meta, and Laura are all advocates for The Dark Labyrinth.? If I understand your previous notes, Bruce -- and it is possible that I have not understood them at all -- I think that you are also an advocate for The Dark Labyrinth.? Good enough. When I read his note, I thought that Richard was making an observation about the peculiar fashions and politics that have made critics dismissive of certain works -- or, in certain cases I could cite, all works -- by Lawrence Durrell.? Richard disagrees with such terms.? They frame the discussion in such a way as to exclude a writer or a work that does not fit arbitrary measures, and they often labor to ulterior purposes, political or moral ends resting somewhere beyond the writer or work at hand.? I think that I might be somewhere close to Richard on this point.? That is, within my admittedly subjective limits of attention, understanding, and enthusiasm, I try to give myself over to each literary work for its own sake, for the sake of experiencing its own particular, distinctive pleasures.? This liberty of the heart and mind brings me a keen enjoyment.? (I fancy that Lawrence Durrell taught me how -- my thanks!)? It also is an education in humility, reminding me that I must learn so very very much on this short day of frost and sun. . . .? Good luck to all of you with this reconsideration of an overlooked book.? Since facts do matter, I hope that someone who is interested in this topic will share specific quotes from critics who have written dismissively or disparagingly about The Dark Labyrinth.? I can't name a single one.? But then all of this is an education for me!? Remember, lack of critical attention is not, by itself, dismissive.? The limits of page allotments, the vagaries of publishers and editors, and an ignorance of unheralded virtue might just as easily explain the lack of address.? Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/11b22c43/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Fri May 6 00:37:23 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 00:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Not at all. If you feel you must sit around a campfire (I don't!) then leave your baggage in the parking lot. RP ________________________________ From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:23:05 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? ?I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. ?Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) >We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and >'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go >forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. >He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting >for the successor to Monsieur. >Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and >not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. >Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT >DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises >et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD >himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend >so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit >crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to >admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' >excites us, because we have been trained to?act as snobs. LD himself said that >one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But >HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which >pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. >We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it >is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't >make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what >Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because >they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh >So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an >important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of >jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? >RP > > > ________________________________ From:?Meta Cerar >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Sent:?Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM >Subject:?Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > > >Bruce, >I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're >working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the >publication of Dark Labyrinth. >Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through >the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere >have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it >may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and >philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this >attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether >they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's >as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so >I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I >think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the >leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart >from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's >visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. >I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book >than Durrell's biographers. >? >Best regards, >Meta >? > ________________________________ >From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf >Of?Bruce Redwine >Sent:?Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Cc:?Bruce Redwine >Subject:?[ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >? >Meta, >? >I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which >will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." ?David Green >below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. ?I too >find?The Dark Labyrinth?an extraordinary work of fiction. ?Why did Durrell >dismiss it? ?I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for >making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," >"man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). ?Yes, that's hard. >?But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations?(Critical Inquiry?7 >(1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material >and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. ?As far as the >"transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an >early age. ?In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, >"Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I >take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into >the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the >Roof of the World in?DL. ?Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is >that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. ?Read his letters >to?ch?res m?re et s?ur.??No matter. ?The idea of pastoral is more important than >facts. >? >? >Bruce >? >? >? >? >On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > > > >This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other >Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which >I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell >himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written >to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his >biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book >(I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? >Best regards >Meta Cerar >Ljubljana, Slovenia >? > ________________________________ >From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf >Of?Denise Tart & David Green >Sent:?Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM >To:?Durrel >Subject:?[ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness >? >LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of >faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental >quest for spirit of place?. it pervades all his work and no finer example than >that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan >upland!? My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual >upland?when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude >and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the >woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. >The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness >are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only >add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all >those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. >Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the >bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. >? >? >David >16 William Street >Marrickville NSW 2204 >+ 61 2 9564 6165 >0412 707 625 >www.denisetart.com.au >_______________________________________________ >ILDS mailing list >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > >?_______________________________________________ >ILDS mailing list >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/b1d9fa2c/attachment.html From meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si Fri May 6 04:54:01 2011 From: meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si (Meta Cerar) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:54:01 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <298EBA00-9267-4978-B83A-6151BD50E2B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> Dear all, I am glad that by triggering off the posts on DL I helped improve the ?quantifiable evidence? of the interest in the book. And I do hope this vivid discussion won't just die away. Thank so much to all ? Bruce, Charles, Richard, Laura, Marc. You have provided ample material for my article. And Laura, I would very much like to know more about your thesis on DL. My thesis, written years ago, by the way, was on the transcendental aspect of the Alexandria Quartet. I have to say that the intention of my post was not to act as an advocate of the DL (much as I like the book), but rather to clarify a few questions that have been puzzling me while translating the book. I was happy to find that your replies mostly confirmed my feelings. I have always wondered why I like this particular book so much, as I always felt a bit guilty that I found the highbrows like Avignon Quintet (and some other things like Tunc) very hard to struggle through. ( Alex. Quartet which I keep rereading, is of course still a source of immense pleasure and inspiration!). So I often wondered abot this classification of Durrell's work. ?Highbrows? versus ?makeweights?? Although DL is, I agree, not exactly a highbrow?, I would certainly not put it into the same league as White Eagles, Antrobus, Stiff upper lip, etc. I'd rather say it occupies a very special place somewhere in between, as T.S. Eliot observed /neither a Norden nor a Durrell, but certainly more Durrell/. But then again, maybe I'm partial here ? I find Durrell a fascinating man and this book throws so much light on his complex personality. And the themes that prevail in the book are very close to me ? the islomania, especially, and the retreat into the pastoral, quest of spiritual fulfillment ? While I agree that Durrell's reluctance to discuss the book must at least partly be related to the fact that it was too close a reflection of himself, I still feel it's a pity DL's biographical significance was not explored more thoroughly by those who knew Durrell well. And while it seems rather certain that the male cast ? Campion, Baird, Truman and even Fearmax (was Durrell really quite knowleadgeable about astrology?) are all reflections of a ?troubled Durrell?, I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are really aspects of Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about her from what I've read in the biographies, so I cannot say, but maybe one of you can contribute a more elaborate opinion here? Looking forward to further discussion, Best regards, Meta _____ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 4:24 AM To: marc at marcpiel.fr; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth What evidence? Check out the postings over the last five years. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Marc Piel wrote: And do you call it critical when you announce "..... nor do many participants on the ILDS list-serve". What quantifiable evidence do you have of this???? ... or should we all sit around and say "bravo" Bruce ( BB) , non of us could have critically thought that out! I have been at loggerheads with you in the past for just this sort of unsupported affirmations, that you try to foist on the list. Marc Le 05/05/11 19:23, Bruce Redwine a ?crit : "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. Bruce On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the successor to Monsieur. Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites us, because we have been trained to act as snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? RP _____ From: Meta Cerar To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Bruce, I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. Best regards, Meta _____ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth Meta, I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. Bruce On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? Best regards Meta Cerar Ljubljana, Slovenia _____ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM To: Durrel Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. David 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 + 61 2 9564 6165 0412 707 625 www.denisetart.com.au _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/0d461c81/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Fri May 6 07:28:53 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 10:28:53 -0400 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> Message-ID: <4DC405A5.30700@utc.edu> Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts on Durrell and his /Dark Labyrinth/, Meta. I will respond below here as I can. > I have always wondered why I like this particular book so much, > as I always felt a bit guilty that I found the highbrows like > Avignon Quintet (and some other things like Tunc) very hard to > struggle through. ( Alex. Quartet which I keep rereading, is of > course still a source of immense pleasure and inspiration!). > I would suspect that different readers find different sorts of pleasures in different books. That sounds more obvious than it actually is. Many people make themselves very busy for a lifetime devising "reasons" that supposedly make plain why some readers should elevate certain books at the cost of other books. These critics are easily tilted from the saddle by the Socratic method. Their pronouncements tend to spring from other agendas rather than from a deep enjoyment of the books in front of them. Loyalties will out, one way or another. If the critic opens by frankly confessing the arbitrariness of the agenda and pronouncements, then fine. That is playing the Police with literature, checking and stamping an author's papers to make certain that he or she passes. But I cannot imagine how one keeps grinding away like that, putting authors and books up on the rack and forcing "confessions." I identify literature with pleasure. For the writer, literature is the creation of pleasure. For the reader, literature is the identification and appreciation of the pleasure's sources. That is my confession. I know my subjectivity, and I try to discriminate and refine it as best as I can. /The Alexandria Quartet/ will always be my book because it is my autobiography -- not because it is "higher" &c. I do think the /Quartet/ has given me the richest memories over a lifetime, some memories from reading the /Quartet/, others by means of associations of places and friendships with other readers of those four novels. And, yes, as with the characters inside the book, my relation with the /Quartet/ is an act of memorious-ness: an ongoing examination of my own experience and memory as it has connected with the /Quartet/. I simply do not have those deep and rich associations with /The Dark Labyrinth/ or /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ &c. But other readers may have them, and I might someday -- perhaps thanks to you? Those are my cards, out on the table. > > So I often wondered abot this classification of Durrell's > work. ?Highbrows? versus ?makeweights?? Although DL is, I > agree, not exactly a highbrow?, I would certainly not put it > into the same league as White Eagles, Antrobus, Stiff upper > lip, etc. I'd rather say it occupies a very special place > somewhere in between, as T.S. Eliot observed /neither a Norden > nor a Durrell, but certainly more Durrell/. But then again, > maybe I'm partial here ? I find Durrell a fascinating man and > this book throws so much light on his complex personality. And > the themes that prevail in the book are very close to me ? the > islomania, especially, and the retreat into the pastoral, > quest of spiritual fulfillment ? > Your confession of partiality is the truest and most honorable part, Meta. Remember: "highbrow," "modern", "postmodern," &c. are artificial categories, old habits which, like so many others, show up our failures. I would put it in this manner. Categories have a very limited use in showing us something new about Lawrence Durrell and his writing. But Lawrence Durrell and his writing can be /extremely/ useful in turning the mirror back, showing us the very real limits and imperfections of categories. I take Pursewarden's ironic mustache seriously, you see. . . . > I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are > really aspects of Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about > her from what I've read in the biographies, so I cannot say, but > maybe one of you can contribute a more elaborate opinion here? > Biography is /always/ interesting. If you are interested in learning more about Nancy's life and work, look ahead to 2012. We have a new biography focusing entirely on Nancy coming out then. Enjoy your reading, Meta. I am glad to have you here. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/16167800/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri May 6 07:13:58 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 07:13:58 -0700 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <513494.19599.qm@web65808.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <4DC30A12.3080106@utc.edu> <513494.19599.qm@web65808.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8DF499A2-6D69-4D0B-9AAC-8A50D34E05A9@earthlink.net> My goodness. We have no grounds for agreement. Bruce On May 6, 2011, at 12:33 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > What I mean is, I think, self-evident: that one should come to a reading of DL, or for that matter any original text, without baggage. Read the book for what it is, not for what you think it might be. RP > > From: Bruce Redwine > To: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 12:03:49 AM > Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > > Charles, > > All along I have been saying The Dark Labyrinth is a remarkable work and deserving full recognition of its accomplishment. I am not willing, however, to take Richard Pine's injunction and to stop "extra-textual considerations." Pine should step forward and explain exactly what he means. > > > Bruce > > > > On May 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Charles Sligh wrote: > >> On 5/5/11 1:23 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. >> I will let Richard speak for Richard, Bruce. >> >> Richard, Meta, and Laura are all advocates for The Dark Labyrinth. If I understand your previous notes, Bruce -- and it is possible that I have not understood them at all -- I think that you are also an advocate for The Dark Labyrinth. Good enough. >> >> When I read his note, I thought that Richard was making an observation about the peculiar fashions and politics that have made critics dismissive of certain works -- or, in certain cases I could cite, all works -- by Lawrence Durrell. Richard disagrees with such terms. They frame the discussion in such a way as to exclude a writer or a work that does not fit arbitrary measures, and they often labor to ulterior purposes, political or moral ends resting somewhere beyond the writer or work at hand. >> >> I think that I might be somewhere close to Richard on this point. That is, within my admittedly subjective limits of attention, understanding, and enthusiasm, I try to give myself over to each literary work for its own sake, for the sake of experiencing its own particular, distinctive pleasures. This liberty of the heart and mind brings me a keen enjoyment. (I fancy that Lawrence Durrell taught me how -- my thanks!) It also is an education in humility, reminding me that I must learn so very very much on this short day of frost and sun. . . . >> >> Good luck to all of you with this reconsideration of an overlooked book. Since facts do matter, I hope that someone who is interested in this topic will share specific quotes from critics who have written dismissively or disparagingly about The Dark Labyrinth. I can't name a single one. But then all of this is an education for me! Remember, lack of critical attention is not, by itself, dismissive. The limits of page allotments, the vagaries of publishers and editors, and an ignorance of unheralded virtue might just as easily explain the lack of address. >> >> Charles >> -- >> ******************************************** >> Charles L. Sligh >> Assistant Professor >> Department of English >> University of Tennessee at Chattanooga >> charles-sligh at utc.edu >> ******************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/731b2c62/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri May 6 07:32:07 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 07:32:07 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Parking Lots In-Reply-To: <508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: RP, Since we're dealing with metaphors, I assume you mean that the "parking lot" is your parking lot ? the one leading into your house where you control the discussion and set the rules. No thanks. Bruce On May 6, 2011, at 12:37 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > Not at all. If you feel you must sit around a campfire (I don't!) then leave your baggage in the parking lot. RP > > From: Bruce Redwine > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:23:05 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > > "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. > > > Bruce > > > > On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >> I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) >> We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the successor to Monsieur. >> Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. >> Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites us, because we have been trained to act as snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh >> So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? >> RP >> >> From: Meta Cerar >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >> >> Bruce, >> I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the publication of Dark Labyrinth. >> Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. >> I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book than Durrell's biographers. >> >> Best regards, >> Meta >> >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine >> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >> >> Meta, >> >> I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." David Green below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. I too find The Dark Labyrinth an extraordinary work of fiction. Why did Durrell dismiss it? I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," "man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). Yes, that's hard. But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations (Critical Inquiry 7 (1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. As far as the "transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an early age. In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, "Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the Roof of the World in DL. Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. Read his letters to ch?res m?re et s?ur. No matter. The idea of pastoral is more important than facts. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: >> >> >> This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book (I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? >> Best regards >> Meta Cerar >> Ljubljana, Slovenia >> >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green >> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM >> To: Durrel >> Subject: [ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness >> >> LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental quest for spirit of place . it pervades all his work and no finer example than that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan upland! My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual upland when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. >> >> >> David >> 16 William Street >> Marrickville NSW 2204 >> + 61 2 9564 6165 >> 0412 707 625 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/bb5c6319/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Fri May 6 07:37:57 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 10:37:57 -0400 Subject: [ilds] dark labyrinth readers Message-ID: <4DC407C5.6030709@utc.edu> Dear List: I do hope some aficionados of /The Dark Labyrinth/ will take up Meta's invitation. Tell us what you find in that book, or please feel free to bring up another book if you feel partial to its pleasures. There is much to learn! Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/4e739af0/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Fri May 6 07:46:35 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 07:46:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ilds] Parking Lots In-Reply-To: References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I control no discussions; I set no rules. Read my books and see if you agree with them. If you do, that's fine with me. If you don't, that's also fine with me. But don't try to tell me how your view of any work of literature has any bearing on how I see it, because it doesn't. I am an unreconstructed protestant, and I won;t be told by anyone how to believe, how to behave, how to think. I follow only my own views and my own beliefs. I have not the slightest interest in how you read DL or any other text, unless you can persuade me of the appropriateness of your views. So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). I do not ask that we all become mindless adherents to a LD-worshipping sect, but that we read the books for what they are, and , where we know it, what the author intended. I use 'Derrida' as a metaphor for the mindless pursuit of texts through other people's lenses (one could include Habermas and Ricoeur, to name but ten) and I abhor that kind of mindlessness. I do not say that Redwine is a mindless Derridan, but he drags in elements which get in the way of genuine straightforward readings of the text(s) and then gets abusive because we don't agree with him. I wish to have no further part in this discussion, not because I want to exclude those who disagree with me, but because this kind of exchange gives me no nourishment. RP ________________________________ From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 5:32:07 PM Subject: [ilds] Parking Lots RP, Since we're dealing with metaphors, I assume you mean that the "parking lot" is your parking lot ? the one leading into your house where you control the discussion and set the rules. ?No thanks. Bruce On May 6, 2011, at 12:37 AM, Richard Pine wrote: Not at all. If you feel you must sit around a campfire (I don't!) then leave your baggage in the parking lot. RP > > > > ________________________________ From:?Bruce Redwine >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Cc:?Bruce Redwine >Sent:?Thu, May 5, 2011 8:23:05 PM >Subject:?Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > >"Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical >prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? ?I guess it means that >all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing >the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. ?Not much of >a critical discussion, in my opinion. > > > > > >Bruce > > > > > > >On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most >of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' >into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have >remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an >appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD >Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering >how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major >authors of whom she did not approve.) >>We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and >>'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go >>forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. >>He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting >>for the successor to Monsieur. >>Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and >>not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. >>Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT >>DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises >>et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD >>himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend >>so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit >>crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to >>admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' >>excites us, because we have been trained to?act as snobs. LD himself said that >>one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But >>HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which >>pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. >>We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it >>is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't >>make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what >>Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because >>they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh >>So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an >>important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of >>jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? >>RP >> >> >> ________________________________ From:?Meta Cerar >>To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>Sent:?Wed, May 4, 2011 2:45:00 PM >>Subject:?Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >> >> >>Bruce, >>I would be most grateful if you could send me this essay on Durrell you're >>working on as I'm preparing an article about Durrell to accompany the >>publication of Dark Labyrinth. >>Recently I went through both biographies (Bowker and McNiven) again and through >>the collection of D's most important interviews, and nowhere, really nowhere >>have I found anything on the DL except very brief and occassional remarks. If it >>may be right that Durrell was so dismissive because it reflects his own life and >>philosophy and there was ?too much of LD in DL?, I am still curious if this >>attitude on the part of his biographers was due to Durrell's wish or whether >>they too thought the novel to be so irrelevant in relation to other works of D's >>as to deserve no more than a casual mention. I'd really like to clarify this, so >>I would appreciate your opinion as well as the opinions of other list members. I >>think Dark Labyrinth is one of Durrell's best pieces, introducing many of the >>leitmotifs that appear in the AQ, so it surely deserves more recognition. Apart >>from the Roof of the World chapter I especially like the chapter about Baird's >>visit to the monastery and the character of the old abbot. >>I can only hope that Slovenian readers will be more appreciative of the book >>than Durrell's biographers. >>? >>Best regards, >>Meta >>? >> ________________________________ >>From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf >>Of?Bruce Redwine >>Sent:?Friday, April 22, 2011 8:35 PM >>To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>Cc:?Bruce Redwine >>Subject:?[ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >>? >>Meta, >>? >>I'm currently working on an essay dealing with Durrell's use of pastoral, which >>will include aspects of his peculiar "transcendental dimension." ?David Green >>below encapsulates well, as you note, some of those characteristics. ?I too >>find?The Dark Labyrinth?an extraordinary work of fiction. ?Why did Durrell >>dismiss it? ?I'd guess because it didn't fit in which his grandiose plans for >>making his mark on world literature (hence the need to produce "big works," >>"man-size piece[s]," i.e., novels in sets, epic fashion). ?Yes, that's hard. >>?But, if I may expand on Frank Kermode's observations?(Critical Inquiry?7 >>(1980), no. 1, 83-101), authors are not always in full control of their material >>and don't always know when they're succeeding or not. ?As far as the >>"transcendental" goes, the escape into some mythological unknown was there at an >>early age. ?In a letter to Henry Miller (27 January 1937), Durrell writes, >>"Rimbaud's solution is always in the air." The statement is problematic, but I >>take it to mean that young Durrell is romanticizing Arthur Rimbaud's escape into >>the wilds of Abyssinia, i.e., seeking out some primitive haven not unlike the >>Roof of the World in?DL. ?Of course, what Durrell was probably unaware of is >>that Rimbaud was bored stiff with life in remote East Africa. ?Read his letters >>to?ch?res m?re et s?ur.??No matter. ?The idea of pastoral is more important than >>facts. >>? >>? >>Bruce >>? >>? >>? >>? >>On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:39 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: >> >> >> >>This is beautifully put, thank you for this post. I am so glad that other >>Durrell fans also find the transcendental dimension in the Dark Labyrinth (which >>I recently translated into Slovenian). I have always wondered why Durrell >>himself was so dismissive of this novel? Referred to it as a potboiler, written >>to pay for the divorce from Nancy. And why was it hardly ever mentioned by his >>biographers, and not even once in the interviews which were compiled into a book >>(I think the author was Ingersoll or something similar)? >>Best regards >>Meta Cerar >>Ljubljana, Slovenia >>? >> ________________________________ >>From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf >>Of?Denise Tart & David Green >>Sent:?Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:00 AM >>To:?Durrel >>Subject:?[ilds] LGD and the Three Pillars of Happiness >>? >>LGD was a highly spiritual person and sought enlightenment through a variety of >>faiths and beliefs: Gnosticism, the cabbala, Buddhism and of the transcendental >>quest for spirit of place?. it pervades all his work and no finer example than >>that found in Dark Labyrinth and the metaphoric discovery of the Tibetan >>upland!? My feeling is that LGD discovered many elements of spiritual >>upland?when, after the bitter lemons of Cyprus, he went to the Midi with Claude >>and lived a plain rustic life at the Mazet, in country side he liked, with the >>woman he loved and doing work he enjoyed - writing and pottering about his farm. >>The other day Denise said that she heard that the three pillars of happiness >>are: someone to love, something to do and something to look forward to. I only >>add that the second pillar is stronger when you like what you do. LGD had all >>those when with Claude and it was his best time as a man, lover and writer. >>Later, he did not have love, found writing more difficult and had only the >>bottle to look forward to ...and female American uni students. >>? >>? >>David >>16 William Street >>Marrickville NSW 2204 >>+ 61 2 9564 6165 >>0412 707 625 >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/69474b2b/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Fri May 6 08:11:13 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 11:11:13 -0400 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <4DC40E79.5050605@marcpiel.fr> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC405A5.30700@utc.edu> <4DC40E79.5050605@marcpiel.fr> Message-ID: <4DC40F91.5070200@utc.edu> On 5/6/11 11:06 AM, Marc Piel wrote: > > Anyway started rereading Dark Labyrinth this morning and found > LD's beautiful language immediately in the first chapters. I will look forward to hearing more about that rereading, Marc. I have a load of work here to get through -- we are cleaning up after some pretty spectacular and deadly tornadoes. Once that labor has progressed, I fancy that going back to /The Dark Labyrinth/, a book that I may not have read for 20+ years, may be just the thing. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/37e4368e/attachment.html From marc at marcpiel.fr Fri May 6 08:06:33 2011 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 17:06:33 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <4DC405A5.30700@utc.edu> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC405A5.30700@utc.edu> Message-ID: <4DC40E79.5050605@marcpiel.fr> Thank you Charles, I agree entirely with you about the AQ. It is so much part of me that I went to Alexandria and closely follow what happens there and in Egypt. Anyway started rereading Dark Labyrinth this morning and found LD's beautiful language immediately in the first chapters. Best Regards, Marc Le 06/05/11 16:28, Charles Sligh a ?crit : > Thanks so much for taking the time to share your > thoughts on Durrell and his /Dark Labyrinth/, Meta. > > I will respond below here as I can. > >> I have always wondered why I like this >> particular book so much, as I always felt a >> bit guilty that I found the highbrows like >> Avignon Quintet (and some other things like >> Tunc) very hard to struggle through. ( >> Alex. Quartet which I keep rereading, is of >> course still a source of immense pleasure >> and inspiration!). >> > I would suspect that different readers find > different sorts of pleasures in different > books. That sounds more obvious than it > actually is. Many people make themselves very > busy for a lifetime devising "reasons" that > supposedly make plain why some readers should > elevate certain books at the cost of other books. > > These critics are easily tilted from the saddle > by the Socratic method. Their pronouncements > tend to spring from other agendas rather than > from a deep enjoyment of the books in front of > them. Loyalties will out, one way or another. > If the critic opens by frankly confessing the > arbitrariness of the agenda and pronouncements, > then fine. That is playing the Police with > literature, checking and stamping an author's > papers to make certain that he or she passes. > But I cannot imagine how one keeps grinding away > like that, putting authors and books up on the > rack and forcing "confessions." > > I identify literature with pleasure. For the > writer, literature is the creation of pleasure. > For the reader, literature is the identification > and appreciation of the pleasure's sources. > That is my confession. I know my subjectivity, > and I try to discriminate and refine it as best > as I can. > > /The Alexandria Quartet/ will always be my book > because it is my autobiography -- not because it > is "higher" &c. I do think the /Quartet/ has > given me the richest memories over a lifetime, > some memories from reading the /Quartet/, others > by means of associations of places and > friendships with other readers of those four > novels. > > And, yes, as with the characters inside the > book, my relation with the /Quartet/ is an act > of memorious-ness: an ongoing examination of my > own experience and memory as it has connected > with the /Quartet/. > > I simply do not have those deep and rich > associations with /The Dark Labyrinth/ or /The > Revolt of Aphrodite/ &c. But other readers may > have them, and I might someday -- perhaps thanks > to you? > > Those are my cards, out on the table. >> >> So I often wondered abot this >> classification of Durrell's work. >> ?Highbrows? versus ?makeweights?? >> Although DL is, I agree, not exactly a >> highbrow?, I would certainly not put it >> into the same league as White Eagles, >> Antrobus, Stiff upper lip, etc. I'd >> rather say it occupies a very special >> place somewhere in between, as T.S. >> Eliot observed /neither a Norden nor a >> Durrell, but certainly more Durrell/. >> But then again, maybe I'm partial here >> ? I find Durrell a fascinating man and >> this book throws so much light on his >> complex personality. And the themes >> that prevail in the book are very close >> to me ? the islomania, especially, and >> the retreat into the pastoral, quest of >> spiritual fulfillment ? >> > Your confession of partiality is the truest and > most honorable part, Meta. Remember: > "highbrow," "modern", "postmodern," &c. are > artificial categories, old habits which, like so > many others, show up our failures. > > I would put it in this manner. Categories have > a very limited use in showing us something new > about Lawrence Durrell and his writing. But > Lawrence Durrell and his writing can be > /extremely/ useful in turning the mirror back, > showing us the very real limits and > imperfections of categories. > > I take Pursewarden's ironic mustache seriously, > you see. . . . > >> I wonder if the women in the DL, and >> especially Boecklin, are really aspects of >> Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little >> about her from what I've read in the >> biographies, so I cannot say, but maybe one >> of you can contribute a more elaborate >> opinion here? >> > Biography is /always/ interesting. If you are > interested in learning more about Nancy's life > and work, look ahead to 2012. We have a new > biography focusing entirely on Nancy coming out > then. > > Enjoy your reading, Meta. I am glad to have you > here. > > Charles > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/f9929ed0/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri May 6 11:19:26 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:19:26 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Rules for Reading In-Reply-To: <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6A13294C-20CC-4BCD-8CB6-45150E5CF3EF@earthlink.net> A few comments. 1. Richard Pine has definitely set down his rule for reading literature, which means, as far as I can determine, "genuine straightforward readings of the text(s)," and that formalist approach presumably excludes any extraneous theorizing. Pine's definition creates more problems than it solves and would entail, I think, a rather boring future for literary criticism. I still have visions of heaven (was it Milton's?) where the angels sit around singing praises to the Almighty. 2. This is the first time I've ever been put in the company of Jacques Derrida (even if somewhat negatively). This may reconcile me to some members of the ILDS list, who shall go unnamed. 3. This may be the opportunity for others to state their approach(es) to reading literature. Mine is ? anything goes (within limits). If I recall correctly, when Lionel Trilling was asked what he expected of literary criticism, he simply said that it should be "intelligent." Hence, his selected essays, The Moral Obligation to Be Intelligent (2000). That's a good start. Bruce On May 6, 2011, at 7:46 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > I control no discussions; I set no rules. Read my books and see if you agree with them. If you do, that's fine with me. If you don't, that's also fine with me. But don't try to tell me how your view of any work of literature has any bearing on how I see it, because it doesn't. I am an unreconstructed protestant, and I won;t be told by anyone how to believe, how to behave, how to think. I follow only my own views and my own beliefs. I have not the slightest interest in how you read DL or any other text, unless you can persuade me of the appropriateness of your views. So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). I do not ask that we all become mindless adherents to a LD-worshipping sect, but that we read the books for what they are, and , where we know it, what the author intended. I use 'Derrida' as a metaphor for the mindless pursuit of texts through other people's lenses (one could include Habermas and Ricoeur, to name but ten) and I abhor that kind of mindlessness. I do not say that Redwine is a mindless Derridan, but he drags in elements which get in the way of genuine straightforward readings of the text(s) and then gets abusive because we don't agree with him. I wish to have no further part in this discussion, not because I want to exclude those who disagree with me, but because this kind of exchange gives me no nourishment. > RP > > From: Bruce Redwine > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 5:32:07 PM > Subject: [ilds] Parking Lots > > RP, > > Since we're dealing with metaphors, I assume you mean that the "parking lot" is your parking lot ? the one leading into your house where you control the discussion and set the rules. No thanks. > > > Bruce > > > > On May 6, 2011, at 12:37 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >> Not at all. If you feel you must sit around a campfire (I don't!) then leave your baggage in the parking lot. RP >> >> From: Bruce Redwine >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:23:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth >> >> "Free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice" ? now what does all that sound and fury mean? I guess it means that all discussion should end, and we should all sit around the campfire and sing the praises of LGD and say how much we enjoy everything he writes. Not much of a critical discussion, in my opinion. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On May 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >> >>> I think we should educate ourselves out of the literary snobbism in which most of us have been trained - I mean the Leavisite idea of a 'canon' or 'tradition' into which a writer either does or does not 'fit'. (Leavis is said to have remarked of LD 'not one of us'. Both Leavises suffered, in my opinion, from an appalling - in the strict Adlerian sense - inferiority complex. Reading QD Leavis's 'Fiction and the Reading Public' one could be forgiven for wondering how she could have possibly expressed such banal, untenable opinions about major authors of whom she did not approve.) >>> We have to remember that LD very early on tried to become 2 writers - LD and 'Charles Norden' and that H Miller put the lid on that idea. But he did go forward writing one 'real' (as he called it) book followed by one lighter book. He himself described 'Sicilian Carousel' to me as 'a makeweight' while waiting for the successor to Monsieur. >>> Eliot didn't dismiss DL: he said there was too much Durrell for a Norden, and not enough Durrell for a Durrell. If you elide Norden, the problem goes away. >>> Look at the chronology: heavy/light/heavy/light all the way through. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO REGARD THE 'LIGHT' AS INFERIOR. It is the Leavises et al who have conditioned us to think that way. What is it? It's what LD himself described as 'British critics suffering from penis envy'. i.e. we spend so much energy lauding the 'real' books that we think it inferior of us as lit crits to also acknowledge the in-between stuff, and yet we secretly want to admire it. Somehow, we feel guilty at admitting that 'DL' or 'White Eagles' excites us, because we have been trained to act as snobs. LD himself said that one would seldom meet a reader who admits to enjoying Proust AND Wodehouse. But HE DID and so do I and I HAVE NO PATIENCE with the school of thought which pretends that we have to make a special case for DL or White Eagles or Antrobus. We DON'T. Just ENJOY! Or is that impossible for a po-faced critic? I'm afraid it is, in most cases. And then there are those toilet-trained in 'theory' who can't make up their minds about anything they've read until they have decided what Derrida might have thought. They don't deserve to be critics at all, because they haven't got a mind of their own, not even a Leavisite one. Urrrgh >>> So could we please stop agonising about whether DL is a great book or even an important book, and just read the damn thing for what it is worth - free of jargon, free of extra-textual considerations, free of critical prejudice? >>> RP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110506/4b8702a5/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri May 6 17:32:53 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 10:32:53 +1000 Subject: [ilds] astrology Message-ID: Meta, LD was a man of eclectic interests, wide and deep reading and given to extensive research for many of his literary projects. He also lived at a time when astrology and occult science (1920s, 30s and 40s) were very fashionable. As I teach at a Waldorf school I was amazed to see Durrell referencing Rudolf Steiner, the Austrian philosopher, anthroposophist and occult scientist. In DL his followers are appalled at Fearmax's antics. Pleased that people are picking up Dark Labyrinth. I shall do so also. I have also resolved to communicate with Gordon Bowker about the book's title because, despite using that title for his biography, he barely discusses the book; something I am curious about. Like you Meta, I am fascinated by LD as both a writer and a person. I would like to have known him in the way that some of you have. I have enjoyed his books since childhood and continue to do so. I also know that Bruce Redwine does too and has written extensively on his works. Charles, reading maybe a pleasure but writing often is not. writing often comes from deep personal angst, a sense of loss, a dark labyrinth indeed. hence, perhaps, the saying "what is written without pain, is read without pleasure!" Denise Tart designing ceremonies Civil Celebrant - A8807 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 + 61 2 9564 6165 0412 707 625 www.denisetart.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110507/e03b2e6c/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri May 6 18:42:48 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 11:42:48 +1000 Subject: [ilds] Protestantism In-Reply-To: <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local><538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net><508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7AFB69FEDF514DEB8B042BFAB097E2E3@DenisePC> RP wrote: So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). Gee, I hope the vast majority of contributors and readers of this list (group to use RP's expression) are not now feeling insulted for being irrelevant red herrings, carp or daft buggers or other less easily classified members of the watery world. Freedom of thought, religion, textual analysis and expression are noble ideas irrespective of the collateral damage or tendency towards self righteousness. Daft David the Catholic Trout -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110507/af76809d/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Fri May 6 19:45:53 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 22:45:53 -0400 Subject: [ilds] enough Message-ID: <4DC4B261.8030500@utc.edu> Frankly, this game of tit-for-tat is a weary one. There has been quite enough bickering. Thicken your skins. Lawrence Durrell and his writings are far more interesting. Turn the talk back to the books and the life, or turn it off. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** From Ken.Gammage at directed.com Fri May 6 20:06:33 2011 From: Ken.Gammage at directed.com (Ken Gammage) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 20:06:33 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Thoughts about the Quintet from 1985 Message-ID: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF0957662FF3AA9@mail2.directed.com> A small amateur publishing association I have been involved with for many years, Apa-50, will soon reach its 200th mailing. This paragraph is from #68 in August, 1985: The Durrell Quintet is right up there with his best. It seems that one is either completely captivated by the man or else finds him unreadable, but I was so happy that he didn?t cop-out about the matter of the ?real? vs. ?imaginary? characters. Those terms in mathematics resolve into the realm of the complex, and so did these. In the last beautiful scene, after the war, when all the characters and a congress of gypsies is all gathered on the banks of the Rhone, the Prefet, walking through the throng, notes with interest guests from variant time lines and other contingent realities: a real mind-blower just thrown out nonchalantly. - Ken This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. From godshawl at ucmail.uc.edu Sat May 7 05:04:38 2011 From: godshawl at ucmail.uc.edu (Godshalk, William (godshawl)) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 08:04:38 -0400 Subject: [ilds] Protestantism In-Reply-To: <7AFB69FEDF514DEB8B042BFAB097E2E3@DenisePC> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local><538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net><508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, <7AFB69FEDF514DEB8B042BFAB097E2E3@DenisePC> Message-ID: <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402D@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> I'm right, and your wrong. And there an end on't. Bill W. L. Godshalk * Department of English * * University of Cincinnati* * Stellar Disorder * OH 45221-0069 * * ________________________________________ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green [dtart at bigpond.net.au] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 9:42 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism RP wrote: So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). Gee, I hope the vast majority of contributors and readers of this list (group to use RP's expression) are not now feeling insulted for being irrelevant red herrings, carp or daft buggers or other less easily classified members of the watery world. Freedom of thought, religion, textual analysis and expression are noble ideas irrespective of the collateral damage or tendency towards self righteousness. Daft David the Catholic Trout ________________________________ From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat May 7 08:15:19 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 08:15:19 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Protestantism In-Reply-To: <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402D@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local><538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net><508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, <7AFB69FEDF514DEB8B042BFAB097E2E3@DenisePC> <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402D@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> Message-ID: The beginning of religious wars. "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest." Guess who said that? Bruce On May 7, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Godshalk, William (godshawl) wrote: > I'm right, and your wrong. > > And there an end on't. > > Bill > > > W. L. Godshalk * > Department of English * * > University of Cincinnati* * Stellar Disorder * > OH 45221-0069 * * > ________________________________________ > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green [dtart at bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 9:42 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism > > RP wrote: > So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). > > Gee, I hope the vast majority of contributors and readers of this list (group to use RP's expression) are not now feeling insulted for being irrelevant red herrings, carp or daft buggers or other less easily classified members of the watery world. Freedom of thought, religion, textual analysis and expression are noble ideas irrespective of the collateral damage or tendency towards self righteousness. > Daft David the Catholic Trout > ________________________________ From godshawl at ucmail.uc.edu Sat May 7 11:19:04 2011 From: godshawl at ucmail.uc.edu (Godshalk, William (godshawl)) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 14:19:04 -0400 Subject: [ilds] Protestantism In-Reply-To: References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local><538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net><508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, <7AFB69FEDF514DEB8B042BFAB097E2E3@DenisePC> <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402D@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu>, Message-ID: <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402F@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> Luther said it. Who else? W. L. Godshalk * Department of English * * University of Cincinnati* * Stellar Disorder * OH 45221-0069 * * ________________________________________ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:15 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism The beginning of religious wars. "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest." Guess who said that? Bruce On May 7, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Godshalk, William (godshawl) wrote: > I'm right, and your wrong. > > And there an end on't. > > Bill > > > W. L. Godshalk * > Department of English * * > University of Cincinnati* * Stellar Disorder * > OH 45221-0069 * * > ________________________________________ > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green [dtart at bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 9:42 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism > > RP wrote: > So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). > > Gee, I hope the vast majority of contributors and readers of this list (group to use RP's expression) are not now feeling insulted for being irrelevant red herrings, carp or daft buggers or other less easily classified members of the watery world. Freedom of thought, religion, textual analysis and expression are noble ideas irrespective of the collateral damage or tendency towards self righteousness. > Daft David the Catholic Trout > ________________________________ _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat May 7 11:54:19 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 11:54:19 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Protestantism In-Reply-To: <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402F@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local> <538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net> <508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7AFB69FEDF514DEB8B042BFAB097E2E3@DenisePC> <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402D@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402F@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> Message-ID: <4C73BE60-1959-4E8C-A73E-C77E88DC5F75@earthlink.net> Another example of LGD's plagiarism! Thanks, Bill. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On May 7, 2011, at 11:19 AM, "Godshalk, William (godshawl)" wrote: > Luther said it. Who else? > > > W. L. Godshalk * > Department of English * * > University of Cincinnati* * Stellar Disorder * > OH 45221-0069 * * > ________________________________________ > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:15 AM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism > > The beginning of religious wars. "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest." Guess who said that? > > > Bruce > > > > On May 7, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Godshalk, William (godshawl) wrote: > >> I'm right, and your wrong. >> >> And there an end on't. >> >> Bill >> >> >> W. L. Godshalk * >> Department of English * * >> University of Cincinnati* * Stellar Disorder * >> OH 45221-0069 * * >> ________________________________________ >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green [dtart at bigpond.net.au] >> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 9:42 PM >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism >> >> RP wrote: >> So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). >> >> Gee, I hope the vast majority of contributors and readers of this list (group to use RP's expression) are not now feeling insulted for being irrelevant red herrings, carp or daft buggers or other less easily classified members of the watery world. Freedom of thought, religion, textual analysis and expression are noble ideas irrespective of the collateral damage or tendency towards self righteousness. >> Daft David the Catholic Trout >> ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From Ken.Gammage at directed.com Sat May 7 11:55:23 2011 From: Ken.Gammage at directed.com (Ken Gammage) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 11:55:23 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Sharp Observations Message-ID: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF0957662FF3AAC@mail2.directed.com> One quick quote from Clea: ?And Pombal says as a joke, ?Now you are shaving the dead while they are still alive.?? There are hundreds of sharp observations like this in the Quartet. This one is said by Mnemjian the barber, who is prospering during the war, ??cutting the armies? hair day and night.? Evocative writing by LGD. The Quartet is often said to occur during WWII, but Clea places the action of the previous books in the mid-?30s, wouldn?t you say? - Ken This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat May 7 12:04:00 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 12:04:00 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Sharp Observations In-Reply-To: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF0957662FF3AAC@mail2.directed.com> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF0957662FF3AAC@mail2.directed.com> Message-ID: <4DC597A0.5020500@gmail.com> Hi Ken, Don Kaczvinsky has done good work on the timeline of the Quartet (and Michael Haag adds to it): Kaczvinsky, Donald P. "When Was Darley in Alexandria? A Chronology for The Alexandria Quartet." /Journal of Modern Literature/ 17.4 (1991): 591-594. As for Pombal, it is indeed a poignant reminder of the tone of the Quartet! It's certainly not all luxuriance, if it that stands out in many readers' memories. Best, James On 07/05/11 11:55 AM, Ken Gammage wrote: > One quick quote from Clea: ?And Pombal says as a joke, ?Now you are shaving the dead while they are still alive.?? > > There are hundreds of sharp observations like this in the Quartet. This one is said by Mnemjian the barber, who is prospering during the war, ??cutting the armies? hair day and night.? > > Evocative writing by LGD. The Quartet is often said to occur during WWII, but Clea places the action of the previous books in the mid-?30s, wouldn?t you say? > > - Ken > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sat May 7 13:54:22 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 06:54:22 +1000 Subject: [ilds] clarification In-Reply-To: <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402D@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> References: <6BC5C6A3389E496496231782AE952AA5@inv.local><538303.72670.qm@web65818.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><6E69881E-8384-4226-853B-6B1FB20F5A6B@earthlink.net><508498.39251.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><941619.55109.qm@web65802.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, <7AFB69FEDF514DEB8B042BFAB097E2E3@DenisePC> <94B18F18BF859846A11A82A6166B6C4201E16BC0402D@UCMAILBE2.ad.uc.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for the clarification Bill. I'll sleep a lot better in my fish tank tonight. David Department of Wine & Durrell Studies University of Woolloomooloo Sydney -------------------------------------------------- From: "Godshalk, William (godshawl)" Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 10:04 PM To: "Denise Tart & David Green" ; Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism > I'm right, and your wrong. > > And there an end on't. > > Bill > > > W. L. Godshalk * > Department of English * * > University of Cincinnati* * Stellar Disorder * > OH 45221-0069 * * > ________________________________________ > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of > Denise Tart & David Green [dtart at bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 9:42 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] Protestantism > > RP wrote: > So far, very few members of this group have put forward anything other > than negative thinking about LD (carping, asking daft questions, dragging > in what seem to me to be irrelevant red herrings). > > Gee, I hope the vast majority of contributors and readers of this list > (group to use RP's expression) are not now feeling insulted for being > irrelevant red herrings, carp or daft buggers or other less easily > classified members of the watery world. Freedom of thought, religion, > textual analysis and expression are noble ideas irrespective of the > collateral damage or tendency towards self righteousness. > Daft David the Catholic Trout > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Sat May 7 19:52:25 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 22:52:25 -0400 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> Message-ID: <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> On 5/6/11 7:54 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are > really aspects of Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about > her from what I've read in the biographies, so I cannot say, but > maybe one of you can contribute a more elaborate opinion here? Hello, Meta. I am attempting to do my part, enjoying dips into /The Dark Labyrinth/ between some heroic bouts of chainsawing. (Our oaks are all down on the ground here in Tennessee, post-tornadoes.) Your question about Nancy's possible presence in the pages of /The Dark Labyrinth/ seems best answered by the following moment, in which Baird's first encounter with his wife is recalled: > He met /Alice Lidell/ in the tea-room of the Tate Gallery and > fell in love with her at sight. She was tall and beautiful and > her fine blonde hair picked up the reflected light from the > long mirrors, twinkling as she combed it. ("Portraits," /The > Dark Labyrinth/) The connection of Alice's elemental blondness with the Slade School makes this more than suggestive, of course. Why /Alice Lidell/? I naturally think of Dean Liddell's daughter, Carroll's muse, little Alice Liddell. As to what any of it means, I can't say. I smiled just a bit when Hogerth began to lampoon Boyd's book -- which uses psychoanalysis to "trace" repressed truths from Poe's "Raven" and Dickens's novels. Also curious was Alice's mistrust of "another attempt by these psychologists to put the artist in the strait jacket of a clinical definition." I will keep reporting my finds. I hope that others will share as they can. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110507/c89e0b47/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sat May 7 20:19:03 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 13:19:03 +1000 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> Message-ID: Charles, you are on the money here, for sure. there are some teasing descriptions of Virginia and Mrs Truman too. In Roof of the World, I had pictures of LD and N living the simple life in the white house at Kalami. In DL Truman described his wife as having become like a 'savage'. In Prospero's Cell he talks of N in the same way: toothed like a carnivore! Is this Larry at the mercy of a powerful women? Nancy, Claude and Ghislaine (blondes) were certainly more powerful women than the dark eyed E. Meta, Nancy's daughter Penelope is, I think, still alive and is known to members of this list. If my memory serves me she may even be speaking at the next Durrell Conference? people on this list who know her may be willing to give more details about the famous N. LD certainly liked the tall, elegant blondes and Nancy appears to be the model or at least base for several female characters including Clea and Livia. David From: Charles Sligh Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 12:52 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth On 5/6/11 7:54 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are really aspects of Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about her from what I've read in the biographies, so I cannot say, but maybe one of you can contribute a more elaborate opinion here? Hello, Meta. I am attempting to do my part, enjoying dips into The Dark Labyrinth between some heroic bouts of chainsawing. (Our oaks are all down on the ground here in Tennessee, post-tornadoes.) Your question about Nancy's possible presence in the pages of The Dark Labyrinth seems best answered by the following moment, in which Baird's first encounter with his wife is recalled: He met Alice Lidell in the tea-room of the Tate Gallery and fell in love with her at sight. She was tall and beautiful and her fine blonde hair picked up the reflected light from the long mirrors, twinkling as she combed it. ("Portraits," The Dark Labyrinth) The connection of Alice's elemental blondness with the Slade School makes this more than suggestive, of course. Why Alice Lidell? I naturally think of Dean Liddell's daughter, Carroll's muse, little Alice Liddell. As to what any of it means, I can't say. I smiled just a bit when Hogerth began to lampoon Boyd's book -- which uses psychoanalysis to "trace" repressed truths from Poe's "Raven" and Dickens's novels. Also curious was Alice's mistrust of "another attempt by these psychologists to put the artist in the strait jacket of a clinical definition." I will keep reporting my finds. I hope that others will share as they can. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/2e180fe5/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Sat May 7 20:30:44 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 23:30:44 -0400 Subject: [ilds] Penelope Durrell Hope In-Reply-To: References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> Message-ID: <4DC60E64.5040203@utc.edu> On 5/7/11 11:19 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Meta, Nancy's daughter Penelope is, I think, still alive and is > known to members of this list. > I am sorry to say that Penelope Durrell Hope died back in October 2010. Her illness had been swift, debilitating, and distressing, and the family wished to keep things fairly quiet. I never spotted an obituary or a press release for Penelope's death. If anyone here has kept an official announcement, I would appreciate anything you might share. My best, with memories of Corfu 2000. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110507/d917984f/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Sat May 7 20:36:35 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 23:36:35 -0400 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> Message-ID: <4DC60FC3.4020608@utc.edu> On 5/7/11 11:19 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > In Prospero's Cell he talks of N in the same way: toothed like a > carnivore! A permanent tattoo by means of which we can discover all true readers of /Prospero's Cell/, David: "N. now brown-skinned and blonde, reading in a chair with her legs tucked under her. Calm eyes, calm hair, and clear white teeth like those of a young /carnivore/." C&c. -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110507/92c23671/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat May 7 23:07:29 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 23:07:29 -0700 Subject: [ilds] Penelope Durrell Hope In-Reply-To: <4DC60E64.5040203@utc.edu> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC60E64.5040203@utc.edu> Message-ID: I met Penelope Hope Durrell in Alexandria, 2007. She was a very gentle soul, painfully shy and completely unlike her father. She struck me as good and decent, and I wonder how much of her personality she owed to her mother. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On May 7, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Charles Sligh wrote: > On 5/7/11 11:19 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >> Meta, Nancy's daughter Penelope is, I think, still alive and is known to members of this list. > I am sorry to say that Penelope Durrell Hope died back in October 2010. Her illness had been swift, debilitating, and distressing, and the family wished to keep things fairly quiet. > > I never spotted an obituary or a press release for Penelope's death. If anyone here has kept an official announcement, I would appreciate anything you might share. > > My best, with memories of Corfu 2000. > > Charles > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110507/d4ef2f7d/attachment.html From marc at marcpiel.fr Sun May 8 04:23:45 2011 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 13:23:45 +0200 Subject: [ilds] Penelope Durrell Hope In-Reply-To: <4DC60E64.5040203@utc.edu> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC60E64.5040203@utc.edu> Message-ID: <4DC67D41.3090902@marcpiel.fr> Does this give you any more info?: http://www.halesowennews.co.uk/archive/2010/11/18/Deaths/8673335.PENELOPE_DURRELL_HOPE/ @+ Marc Le 08/05/11 05:30, Charles Sligh a ?crit : > On 5/7/11 11:19 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: >> >> Meta, Nancy's daughter Penelope is, I >> think, still alive and is known to members >> of this list. >> > I am sorry to say that Penelope Durrell Hope > died back in October 2010. Her illness had been > swift, debilitating, and distressing, and the > family wished to keep things fairly quiet. > > I never spotted an obituary or a press release > for Penelope's death. If anyone here has kept > an official announcement, I would appreciate > anything you might share. > > My best, with memories of Corfu 2000. > > Charles > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/6bdcf895/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Sun May 8 05:37:08 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 08:37:08 -0400 Subject: [ilds] Penelope Durrell Hope In-Reply-To: <4DC67D41.3090902@marcpiel.fr> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC60E64.5040203@utc.edu> <4DC67D41.3090902@marcpiel.fr> Message-ID: <4DC68E74.6090205@utc.edu> > > PENELOPE DURRELL-HOPE > > DURRELL-HOPE. Penelope. A Service of Remembrance will be held at > the Church of St Peter and St Paul, Whitney on Wye, at 2.30 p.m. > on Saturday, December 4. Family flowers only, but donations, if > desired to the Alzheimer's Society. Funeral arrangements by Oak > Tree Funeral Services, of the Cemetery Chapel, Kington and 6 > Castle Close, Eardisley. Tel: 01544 327829 > Thank you, Marc. That brief note seems in keeping with what I knew about the family's wishes at the time. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/cb355f82/attachment.html From marc at marcpiel.fr Sun May 8 06:56:37 2011 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 15:56:37 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> Message-ID: <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr> Thanks for the confirmation; I picked that up also, especially with the mention of Slade School. I have another question, perhaps stupid: why was DL first published under the name of Cefal?, which as far as I know has nothing to do with Crete? Must be down on my Greek mythology, even if my daughter is named Ariane. Marc Le 08/05/11 04:52, Charles Sligh a ?crit : > On 5/6/11 7:54 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > >> I wonder if the women in the DL, and >> especially Boecklin, are really aspects of >> Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little >> about her from what I've read in the >> biographies, so I cannot say, but maybe one >> of you can contribute a more elaborate >> opinion here? > > Hello, Meta. I am attempting to do my part, > enjoying dips into /The Dark Labyrinth/ between > some heroic bouts of chainsawing. (Our oaks are > all down on the ground here in Tennessee, > post-tornadoes.) > > Your question about Nancy's possible presence in > the pages of /The Dark Labyrinth/ seems best > answered by the following moment, in which > Baird's first encounter with his wife is recalled: > >> He met /Alice Lidell/ in the tea-room >> of the Tate Gallery and fell in love >> with her at sight. She was tall and >> beautiful and her fine blonde hair >> picked up the reflected light from the >> long mirrors, twinkling as she combed >> it. ("Portraits," /The Dark Labyrinth/) > > The connection of Alice's elemental blondness > with the Slade School makes this more than > suggestive, of course. > > Why /Alice Lidell/? I naturally think of Dean > Liddell's daughter, Carroll's muse, little Alice > Liddell. As to what any of it means, I can't say. > > I smiled just a bit when Hogerth began to > lampoon Boyd's book -- which uses psychoanalysis > to "trace" repressed truths from Poe's "Raven" > and Dickens's novels. Also curious was Alice's > mistrust of "another attempt by these > psychologists to put the artist in the strait > jacket of a clinical definition." > > I will keep reporting my finds. I hope that > others will share as they can. > > Charles > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/c924cdef/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun May 8 07:30:46 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 07:30:46 -0700 Subject: [ilds] =?iso-8859-1?q?Cefal=FB?= In-Reply-To: <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr> Message-ID: <40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> Good and interesting question. In part, I'd say Durrell's Romantic sensibilities are at work and he likes the exotic name. The setting, however, is Crete, and Cefal?, the town near the labyrinth, is actually on nearby Sicily. Another possibility is that Durrell wants to fictionalize his setting ? a kind of diversion from the actual. I also see this process in his method of characterization. I'm now working on that problem. Bruce On May 8, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Marc Piel wrote: > Thanks for the confirmation; I picked that up also, especially with the mention of Slade School. > I have another question, perhaps stupid: why was DL first published under the name of Cefal?, which as far as I know has nothing to do with Crete? > Must be down on my Greek mythology, even if my daughter is named Ariane. > Marc > > Le 08/05/11 04:52, Charles Sligh a ?crit : >> >> On 5/6/11 7:54 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: >>> I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are really aspects of Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about her from what I've read in the biographies, so I cannot say, but maybe one of you can contribute a more elaborate opinion here? >> Hello, Meta. I am attempting to do my part, enjoying dips into The Dark Labyrinth between some heroic bouts of chainsawing. (Our oaks are all down on the ground here in Tennessee, post-tornadoes.) >> >> Your question about Nancy's possible presence in the pages of The Dark Labyrinth seems best answered by the following moment, in which Baird's first encounter with his wife is recalled: >>> He met Alice Lidell in the tea-room of the Tate Gallery and fell in love with her at sight. She was tall and beautiful and her fine blonde hair picked up the reflected light from the long mirrors, twinkling as she combed it. ("Portraits," The Dark Labyrinth) >> The connection of Alice's elemental blondness with the Slade School makes this more than suggestive, of course. >> >> Why Alice Lidell? I naturally think of Dean Liddell's daughter, Carroll's muse, little Alice Liddell. As to what any of it means, I can't say. >> >> I smiled just a bit when Hogerth began to lampoon Boyd's book -- which uses psychoanalysis to "trace" repressed truths from Poe's "Raven" and Dickens's novels. Also curious was Alice's mistrust of "another attempt by these psychologists to put the artist in the strait jacket of a clinical definition." >> >> I will keep reporting my finds. I hope that others will share as they can. >> >> Charles >> -- >> ******************************************** >> Charles L. Sligh >> Assistant Professor >> Department of English >> University of Tennessee at Chattanooga >> charles-sligh at utc.edu >> ******************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/ee4cf03d/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Sun May 8 08:01:46 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 11:01:46 -0400 Subject: [ilds] =?windows-1252?q?Cefal=FB?= In-Reply-To: <40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr> <40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DC6B05A.3030107@utc.edu> On 5/8/11 10:30 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > a kind of diversion from the actual I think that is entirely a part of the method, Bruce. The "actual" -- the Ideal of the Actual -- is the problem. In a novel about forgeries, grand archaeological hoaxes, and other forms of fakery, it would seem naive to declare, "But this can't be true!" No surprises here for careful readers of /The Alexandria Quartet/, I would think. I would think that this holds for "fiction" in general. Writers like Robert Browning, or Oscar Wilde, or William Gaddis, or Lawrence Durrell, or Thomas Pynchon all tend to foreground such questions of authenticity. This exchange seems to the point: "Dicky, you're an expert -- you saw it." "Yes," said Graecen, with a startled and defensive air. It alarmed him to be called an expert. "The sculpture I sent you for the Museum, and the relief -- would you pronounce them genuine?" "Of course," said Graecen. "They're not. If Baird never found the temple when he operated from the labyrinth it was because it wasn't there. /I built it/." ("The Argument," /The Dark Labyrinth/) -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/6d9f5ad1/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun May 8 08:34:12 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 08:34:12 -0700 Subject: [ilds] =?iso-8859-1?q?Cefal=FB?= In-Reply-To: <4DC6B05A.3030107@utc.edu> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr> <40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> <4DC6B05A.3030107@utc.edu> Message-ID: Charles, I agree. Good example from the novel ? that shows how well formed it is. A well-wrought urn? No doubt Durrell deals with the problem of actuality in various ways. Most of the authors I hear interviewed readily admit there's a fine line between fiction and reality. Fiction is often based on personal experience ? how can it be otherwise? The big exception being Shakespeare, whose range boggles and makes one wonder how he knew so much. Hence all the attempts to find the "real" Shakespeare, someone other than the one buried in Stratford-on-Avon. In Durrell case, however, he seems to have special uses for this process, very personal ones, driven by his own needs. Bruce On May 8, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Charles Sligh wrote: > On 5/8/11 10:30 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> a kind of diversion from the actual > I think that is entirely a part of the method, Bruce. The "actual" -- the Ideal of the Actual -- is the problem. > > In a novel about forgeries, grand archaeological hoaxes, and other forms of fakery, it would seem naive to declare, "But this can't be true!" No surprises here for careful readers of The Alexandria Quartet, I would think. > > I would think that this holds for "fiction" in general. Writers like Robert Browning, or Oscar Wilde, or William Gaddis, or Lawrence Durrell, or Thomas Pynchon all tend to foreground such questions of authenticity. > > This exchange seems to the point: > "Dicky, you're an expert -- you saw it." > "Yes," said Graecen, with a startled and defensive air. It alarmed him to be called an expert. > "The sculpture I sent you for the Museum, and the relief -- would you pronounce them genuine?" > "Of course," said Graecen. > "They're not. If Baird never found the temple when he operated from the labyrinth it was because it wasn't there. I built it." > ("The Argument," The Dark Labyrinth) > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/795a4d51/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Sun May 8 07:50:46 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 07:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ilds] =?utf-8?q?Cefal=C3=BB?= In-Reply-To: <40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local> <4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr> <40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7496.50330.qm@web65814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> If Crete is 'nearby' Sicily... ________________________________ From: Bruce Redwine To: marc at marcpiel.fr; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 5:30:46 PM Subject: [ilds] Cefal? Good and interesting question. ?In part, I'd say Durrell's Romantic sensibilities are at work and he likes the exotic name. ?The setting, however, is Crete, and Cefal?, the town near the labyrinth, is actually on nearby Sicily. ?Another possibility is that Durrell wants to fictionalize his setting ? a kind of diversion from the actual. ?I also see this process in his method of characterization. ?I'm now working on that problem. Bruce On May 8, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Marc Piel wrote: Thanks for the confirmation; I picked that up also, especially with the mention of Slade School. >I have another question, perhaps stupid: why was DL first published under the >name of Cefal?, which as far as I know has nothing to do with Crete? >Must be down on my Greek mythology, even if my daughter is named Ariane. >Marc > >Le 08/05/11 04:52, Charles Sligh a ?crit?: >On 5/6/11 7:54 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: >>I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are really aspects of >>Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about her from what I've read in the >>biographies, so I cannot say, but maybe one of you can contribute a more >>elaborate opinion here?Hello, Meta.? I am attempting to do my part, enjoying >>dips into The Dark Labyrinth between some heroic bouts of chainsawing.? (Our >>oaks are all down on the ground here in Tennessee, post-tornadoes.) > >Your question about Nancy's possible presence in the pages of The Dark Labyrinth >seems best answered by the following moment, in which Baird's first encounter >with his wife is recalled: > >He met Alice Lidell in the tea-room of the Tate Gallery and fell in love with >her at sight. She was tall and beautiful and her fine blonde hair picked up the >reflected light from the long mirrors, twinkling as she combed it.? >("Portraits," The Dark Labyrinth) >>>>The connection of Alice's elemental blondness with the Slade School makes this >>>>more than suggestive, of course. Why Alice Lidell?? I naturally think of Dean Liddell's daughter, Carroll's muse, little Alice Liddell.? As to what any of it means, I can't say.? I smiled just a bit when Hogerth began to lampoon Boyd's book -- which uses psychoanalysis to "trace" repressed truths from Poe's "Raven" and Dickens's novels.? Also curious was Alice's mistrust of "another attempt by these psychologists to put the artist in the strait jacket of a clinical definition." ? I will keep reporting my finds.? I hope that others will share as they can. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ >ILDS mailing list >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/312cf92c/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Sun May 8 09:17:08 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 12:17:08 -0400 Subject: [ilds] "urgent things in little squirts" Message-ID: <4DC6C204.1050202@utc.edu> From the letters to Miller: "I have deliberately chosen a cheap novel formula and am trying to say urgent things in little squirts through the seven or so people involved. A rotten book with some small lucid moments and one or two good lines." [LD ot HM, c. October 1945] I rather like reading epigrams, /obiter dicta/, urgent "squirts," and "character-squeezes." I sometimes wonder if those may be some of Lawrence Durrell's key modes? Part of the shift away from "novel" to notebook? I will be awarding a prize to the careful reader who successively locates the "one or two good lines." C&c. -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/6ecf66ce/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sun May 8 13:28:41 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 06:28:41 +1000 Subject: [ilds] "urgent things in little squirts" In-Reply-To: <4DC6C204.1050202@utc.edu> References: <4DC6C204.1050202@utc.edu> Message-ID: <62BF09C739B240E4AEFF1D7A22CFF0E5@DenisePC> Charles, I dont think this is one of those lines, but it made me laugh a good deal when I read it last night - the bit in bold italics: so upper class and British "Dicky, you're an expert -- you saw it." "Yes," said Graecen, with a startled and defensive air. It alarmed him to be called an expert. The cult of the amateur and all that... Good challenge though. there are some fine lines in Roof of the World. Durrell is not always genuine when writing to Miller. I think he runs the book down because he did not think Miller would think it serious enough or vulgar enough, if you like. false modesty, I reckon as DL is a well planned and well structured book with some truly memorable characters. It is also funny, something much overlooked in the study of LGD. David From: Charles Sligh Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 2:17 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] "urgent things in little squirts" >From the letters to Miller: "I have deliberately chosen a cheap novel formula and am trying to say urgent things in little squirts through the seven or so people involved. A rotten book with some small lucid moments and one or two good lines." [LD ot HM, c. October 1945] I rather like reading epigrams, obiter dicta, urgent "squirts," and "character-squeezes." I sometimes wonder if those may be some of Lawrence Durrell's key modes? Part of the shift away from "novel" to notebook? I will be awarding a prize to the careful reader who successively locates the "one or two good lines." C&c. -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110509/709bad39/attachment.html From marc at marcpiel.fr Sun May 8 14:42:06 2011 From: marc at marcpiel.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 23:42:06 +0200 Subject: [ilds] "urgent things in little squirts" In-Reply-To: <62BF09C739B240E4AEFF1D7A22CFF0E5@DenisePC> References: <4DC6C204.1050202@utc.edu> <62BF09C739B240E4AEFF1D7A22CFF0E5@DenisePC> Message-ID: <4DC70E2E.8080307@marcpiel.fr> I agree with David!!! @+ Marc Le 08/05/11 22:28, Denise Tart & David Green a ?crit : > Charles, I dont think this is one of those > lines, but it made me laugh a good deal when I > read it last night - the bit in bold italics: so > upper class and British > "Dicky, you're an expert -- you saw it." > "Yes," said Graecen, with a startled and > defensive air. */It alarmed him to be called an > expert/*. > The cult of the amateur and all that... > Good challenge though. there are some fine lines > in Roof of the World. Durrell is not always > genuine when writing to Miller. I think he runs > the book down because he did not think Miller > would think it serious enough or vulgar enough, > if you like. false modesty, I reckon as DL is a > well planned and well structured book with some > truly memorable characters. It is also funny, > something much overlooked in the study of LGD. > David > > *From:* Charles Sligh > > *Sent:* Monday, May 09, 2011 2:17 AM > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > *Subject:* [ilds] "urgent things in little squirts" > > From the letters to Miller: > > "I have deliberately chosen a cheap novel > formula and am trying to say urgent things > in little squirts through the seven or so > people involved. A rotten book with some > small lucid moments and one or two good > lines." [LD ot HM, c. October 1945] > > I rather like reading epigrams, /obiter dicta/, > urgent "squirts," and "character-squeezes." I > sometimes wonder if those may be some of > Lawrence Durrell's key modes? Part of the shift > away from "novel" to notebook? > > I will be awarding a prize to the careful reader > who successively locates the "one or two good > lines." > > C&c. > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** > > -------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110508/55135993/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sun May 8 22:43:44 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 15:43:44 +1000 Subject: [ilds] =?utf-8?q?Cefal=C3=BB?= In-Reply-To: <7496.50330.qm@web65814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local><4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr><40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> <7496.50330.qm@web65814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <650CDA372F804BC885D92BA51B4A3C1E@DenisePC> Crete and Sicily are approximately 450 miles (700kms) apart, a long way by UK standards, but not by USA or Australian measurements. DG From: Richard Pine Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:50 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca ; marc at marcpiel.fr Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Cefal? If Crete is 'nearby' Sicily... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce Redwine To: marc at marcpiel.fr; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 5:30:46 PM Subject: [ilds] Cefal? Good and interesting question. In part, I'd say Durrell's Romantic sensibilities are at work and he likes the exotic name. The setting, however, is Crete, and Cefal?, the town near the labyrinth, is actually on nearby Sicily. Another possibility is that Durrell wants to fictionalize his setting ? a kind of diversion from the actual. I also see this process in his method of characterization. I'm now working on that problem. Bruce On May 8, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Marc Piel wrote: Thanks for the confirmation; I picked that up also, especially with the mention of Slade School. I have another question, perhaps stupid: why was DL first published under the name of Cefal?, which as far as I know has nothing to do with Crete? Must be down on my Greek mythology, even if my daughter is named Ariane. Marc Le 08/05/11 04:52, Charles Sligh a ?crit : On 5/6/11 7:54 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are really aspects of Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about her from what I've read in the biographies, so I cannot say, but maybe one of you can contribute a more elaborate opinion here? Hello, Meta. I am attempting to do my part, enjoying dips into The Dark Labyrinth between some heroic bouts of chainsawing. (Our oaks are all down on the ground here in Tennessee, post-tornadoes.) Your question about Nancy's possible presence in the pages of The Dark Labyrinth seems best answered by the following moment, in which Baird's first encounter with his wife is recalled: He met Alice Lidell in the tea-room of the Tate Gallery and fell in love with her at sight. She was tall and beautiful and her fine blonde hair picked up the reflected light from the long mirrors, twinkling as she combed it. ("Portraits," The Dark Labyrinth) The connection of Alice's elemental blondness with the Slade School makes this more than suggestive, of course. Why Alice Lidell? I naturally think of Dean Liddell's daughter, Carroll's muse, little Alice Liddell. As to what any of it means, I can't say. I smiled just a bit when Hogerth began to lampoon Boyd's book -- which uses psychoanalysis to "trace" repressed truths from Poe's "Raven" and Dickens's novels. Also curious was Alice's mistrust of "another attempt by these psychologists to put the artist in the strait jacket of a clinical definition." I will keep reporting my finds. I hope that others will share as they can. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110509/b2796d8c/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun May 8 23:05:06 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 23:05:06 -0700 Subject: [ilds] =?utf-8?q?Cefal=C3=BB?= In-Reply-To: <650CDA372F804BC885D92BA51B4A3C1E@DenisePC> References: <91722CD5115949E2A1E486654719760E@inv.local><4DC60569.4020908@utc.edu> <4DC6A115.3060601@marcpiel.fr><40ABCFFA-DD2B-44E6-8F58-A94182AF9179@earthlink.net> <7496.50330.qm@web65814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <650CDA372F804BC885D92BA51B4A3C1E@DenisePC> Message-ID: <4DC78412.9030000@gmail.com> A point worth making, David. I remember teaching an 8 month outreach course for the military several years ago -- 340 km driving up, teach 3 hours, hold office hours, and turn around and drive 340 km back the same day, every week... Canada has a lot of empty space. My personal best is 1400 km in a day, through 1200 in a day is not uncommon. My wife helped a friend move 3500 km in 3 days. In any case, I suspect Bruce's reasonable point is that Sicily and Crete are in the Mediterranean, so the name shuffle is far more reasonable than Crete and Tuktoyaktuk. Notably, this isn't Durrell's first playful shuffle with Mediterranean islands -- he has the fictional Mavrodaphne in /Panic Spring/ as well, which is Corfu, but with some transformations to make it just magical enough... JG (thinking of the nightingales) On 08/05/11 10:43 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > Crete and Sicily are approximately 450 miles (700kms) apart, a long way > by UK standards, but not by USA or Australian measurements. > DG > > *From:* Richard Pine > *Sent:* Monday, May 09, 2011 12:50 AM > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca ; marc at marcpiel.fr > > *Cc:* Bruce Redwine > *Subject:* Re: [ilds] Cefal? > > If Crete is 'nearby' Sicily... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bruce Redwine > > *To:* marc at marcpiel.fr ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > *Cc:* Bruce Redwine > > *Sent:* Sun, May 8, 2011 5:30:46 PM > *Subject:* [ilds] Cefal? > > Good and interesting question. In part, I'd say Durrell's Romantic > sensibilities are at work and he likes the exotic name. The setting, > however, is Crete, and Cefal?, the town near the labyrinth, is actually > on nearby Sicily. Another possibility is that Durrell wants to > fictionalize his setting ? a kind of diversion from the actual. I also > see this process in his method of characterization. I'm now working on > that problem. > > > Bruce > > > > On May 8, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Marc Piel wrote: > >> Thanks for the confirmation; I picked that up also, especially with >> the mention of Slade School. >> I have another question, perhaps stupid: why was DL first published >> under the name of Cefal?, which as far as I know has nothing to do >> with Crete? >> Must be down on my Greek mythology, even if my daughter is named Ariane. >> Marc >> >> Le 08/05/11 04:52, Charles Sligh a ?crit : >>> On 5/6/11 7:54 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: >>> >>>> I wonder if the women in the DL, and especially Boecklin, are >>>> really aspects of Nancy? Unfortunately I know very little about >>>> her from what I've read in the biographies, so I cannot say, but >>>> maybe one of you can contribute a more elaborate opinion here? >>> >>> Hello, Meta. I am attempting to do my part, enjoying dips into /The >>> Dark Labyrinth/ between some heroic bouts of chainsawing. (Our oaks >>> are all down on the ground here in Tennessee, post-tornadoes.) >>> >>> Your question about Nancy's possible presence in the pages of /The >>> Dark Labyrinth/ seems best answered by the following moment, in which >>> Baird's first encounter with his wife is recalled: >>> >>>> He met /Alice Lidell/ in the tea-room of the Tate Gallery >>>> and fell in love with her at sight. She was tall and >>>> beautiful and her fine blonde hair picked up the reflected >>>> light from the long mirrors, twinkling as she combed it. >>>> ("Portraits," /The Dark Labyrinth/) >>> >>> The connection of Alice's elemental blondness with the Slade School >>> makes this more than suggestive, of course. >>> >>> Why /Alice Lidell/? I naturally think of Dean Liddell's daughter, >>> Carroll's muse, little Alice Liddell. As to what any of it means, I >>> can't say. >>> >>> I smiled just a bit when Hogerth began to lampoon Boyd's book -- >>> which uses psychoanalysis to "trace" repressed truths from Poe's >>> "Raven" and Dickens's novels. Also curious was Alice's mistrust of >>> "another attempt by these psychologists to put the artist in the >>> strait jacket of a clinical definition." >>> >>> I will keep reporting my finds. I hope that others will share as they >>> can. >>> >>> Charles >>> -- >>> ******************************************** >>> Charles L. Sligh >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of English >>> University of Tennessee at Chattanooga >>> charles-sligh at utc.edu >>> ******************************************** >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ILDS mailing list >>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds