From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 15 10:46:35 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:46:35 -0800 Subject: [ilds] For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011) References: Message-ID: The 4 February 2011 issue of The Time Literary Supplement has several good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which seems to be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to writing and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should please many, James especially. Bruce Begin forwarded message: > From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Date: February 15, 2011 10:18:19 AM PST > To: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net > Subject: For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011, Page 7) > > > > For love of Molly > SARAH DAVISON > TLS > 04 Feb 2011 > > Karen R. Lawrence WHO?S AFRAID OF JAMES JOYCE? 245pp. 978 0 8130 3477 5 Michael Groden ? ULYSSES ? IN FOCUS Genetic, textual, and personal views 245pp. 978 0 8130 3498 0 University Press of Florida. $69.95 each; distributed in the UK by Eurospan.... read more... > > ? Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110215/a3409875/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 11:04:29 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:04:29 -0800 Subject: [ilds] For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been featured in some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity outside of the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young scholar at Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else in 20th Century literature, so far as I can see. Cheers, James On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has several > good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah > Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. > Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently > touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the > evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which seems to > be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work > on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to > Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to writing > and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its > narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have > ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should > please many, James especially. > > > Bruce > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> *From: *bredwine1968 at earthlink.net >> *Date: *February 15, 2011 10:18:19 AM PST >> *To: *bredwine1968 at earthlink.net >> *Subject: **For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011, Page 7)* >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *For love of Molly* >> >> >> /SARAH DAVISON >> TLS >> 04 Feb 2011 >> / >> Karen R. Lawrence WHO?S AFRAID OF JAMES JOYCE? 245pp. 978 0 8130 3477 >> 5 Michael Groden ? ULYSSES ? IN FOCUS Genetic, textual, and personal >> views 245pp. 978 0 8130 3498 0 University Press of Florida. $69.95 >> each; distributed in the UK by Eurospan..../read more.../ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ? Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd. > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 15 13:40:32 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:40:32 -0800 Subject: [ilds] For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011) In-Reply-To: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> James, You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are the titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? Bruce On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: > Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within > shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must > have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been featured in > some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. > > I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over > genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity outside of > the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young scholar at > Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce > scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else in 20th > Century literature, so far as I can see. > > Cheers, > James > > On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has several >> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah >> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. >> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently >> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the >> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which seems to >> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work >> on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to >> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to writing >> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its >> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have >> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should >> please many, James especially. >> >> >> Bruce >> From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 13:57:48 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:57:48 -0800 Subject: [ilds] genetic criticism In-Reply-To: <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D5AF6DC.3060207@gmail.com> Hi Bruce, I've attached the advert and order form for Corinne's book here. It's hot off the presses and only reached my hands last week -- it's worth getting for those interested in the scholarly matters or for anyone who was in the Paris 2008 conference. My piece is: Gifford, James and Michael Stevens. "A Variant of Lawrence Durrell's Livia; or, Buried Alive & the Composition of Monsieur; or, the Prince of Darkness." /Lawrence Durrell at the Crossroads of Arts and Sciences/. Eds. Corinne Alexandre-Garner, Isabelle Keller-Privat, & Murielle Philippe. Paris: Presses Universitaires de Paris Ouest, 2010. 173-193. I dug up some intended revisions to /Monsieur/ that were too late for the print run, and Stevens and I contend that this influenced his first visions of /Livia/, a fragment of which was received by /The Malahat Review/ and published as "Gog and Magog." He revised again to bury his tracks, but it seems to set out the Avignon Quintet's vision in plainer terms than is usually the case. Cheers, James On 15/02/11 1:40 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are the titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? > > > Bruce > > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: > >> Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within >> shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must >> have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been featured in >> some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. >> >> I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over >> genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity outside of >> the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young scholar at >> Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce >> scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else in 20th >> Century literature, so far as I can see. >> >> Cheers, >> James >> >> On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has several >>> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah >>> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. >>> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently >>> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the >>> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which seems to >>> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work >>> on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to >>> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to writing >>> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its >>> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have >>> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should >>> please many, James especially. >>> >>> >>> Bruce >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PromoDurrell2.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 103559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110215/b17ac9a8/attachment.pdf From william.godshalk at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 14:58:12 2011 From: william.godshalk at gmail.com (William Godshalk) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:58:12 -0500 Subject: [ilds] For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011) In-Reply-To: <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I'd put Norman Holland in this context. Norman spent most of his scholarly life arguing that our personal identities dictate how we read and how we write. I think his *The I* is a masterpiece -- in the school of Freud -- and it's on line, last I checked. Bill On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are the > titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? > > > Bruce > > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: > > > Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within > > shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must > > have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been featured in > > some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. > > > > I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over > > genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity outside of > > the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young scholar at > > Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce > > scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else in 20th > > Century literature, so far as I can see. > > > > Cheers, > > James > > > > On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has several > >> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah > >> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. > >> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently > >> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the > >> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which seems to > >> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work > >> on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to > >> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to writing > >> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its > >> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have > >> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should > >> please many, James especially. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110215/9f486588/attachment.html From marcpiel at interdesign.fr Tue Feb 15 16:39:01 2011 From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:39:01 +0100 Subject: [ilds] For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011) In-Reply-To: References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D5B1CA5.3000105@interdesign.fr> Hi Bill, Can you please give us a lik to the on-line document? Marc Le 15/02/11 23:58, William Godshalk a ?crit : > I'd put Norman Holland in this context. Norman spent most of his > scholarly life arguing that our personal identities dictate how we read > and how we write. I think his /The I/ is a masterpiece -- in the school > of Freud -- and it's on line, last I checked. > > Bill > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Bruce Redwine > > wrote: > > James, > > You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are > the titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? > > > Bruce > > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: > > > Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within > > shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must > > have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been > featured in > > some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. > > > > I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over > > genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity > outside of > > the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young > scholar at > > Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce > > scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else > in 20th > > Century literature, so far as I can see. > > > > Cheers, > > James > > > > On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has > several > >> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah > >> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on > Joyce. > >> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently > >> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the > >> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which > seems to > >> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an > author's work > >> on a reader, which many List participants have related with > respect to > >> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to > writing > >> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out > of its > >> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. > I have > >> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should > >> please many, James especially. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 17:06:44 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:06:44 -0800 Subject: [ilds] For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011) In-Reply-To: <4D5B1CA5.3000105@interdesign.fr> References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> <4D5B1CA5.3000105@interdesign.fr> Message-ID: <4D5B2324.90509@gmail.com> On 15/02/11 4:39 PM, Marc Piel wrote: > Hi Bill, > Can you please give us a lik to the on-line document? http://www.normholland.com/theihome.htm Cheers, J From gifford at ualberta.ca Tue Feb 15 21:53:28 2011 From: gifford at ualberta.ca (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:53:28 -0800 Subject: [ilds] genetic criticism In-Reply-To: <4D5AF6DC.3060207@gmail.com> References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> <4D5AF6DC.3060207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D5B6658.4010709@ualberta.ca> Hello all, The evil empire of Facebook reports a very usual number of "hits" to the essay title below... In the spirit of "boosting" Corinne's book, let me know directly if you want a copy of the specific paper -- it's the worst essay in the book, by far (entirely due to my work, not my co-author), so if you're kind enough to like that essay, you should definitely order the whole book from Univ. Presses Paris Ouest... The rest of it is very fine work indeed. :) Best, James 15/02/11 1:57 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > I've attached the advert and order form for Corinne's book here. It's > hot off the presses and only reached my hands last week -- it's worth > getting for those interested in the scholarly matters or for anyone who > was in the Paris 2008 conference. > > My piece is: > > Gifford, James and Michael Stevens. "A Variant of Lawrence Durrell's > Livia; or, Buried Alive & the Composition of Monsieur; or, the Prince of > Darkness." /Lawrence Durrell at the Crossroads of Arts and Sciences/. > Eds. Corinne Alexandre-Garner, Isabelle Keller-Privat, & Murielle > Philippe. Paris: Presses Universitaires de Paris Ouest, 2010. 173-193. > > I dug up some intended revisions to /Monsieur/ that were too late for > the print run, and Stevens and I contend that this influenced his first > visions of /Livia/, a fragment of which was received by /The Malahat > Review/ and published as "Gog and Magog." He revised again to bury his > tracks, but it seems to set out the Avignon Quintet's vision in plainer > terms than is usually the case. > > Cheers, > James > > On 15/02/11 1:40 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> James, >> >> You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are the >> titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: >> >>> Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within >>> shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must >>> have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been featured in >>> some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. >>> >>> I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over >>> genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity outside of >>> the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young scholar at >>> Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce >>> scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else in 20th >>> Century literature, so far as I can see. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> James >>> >>> On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has several >>>> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah >>>> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. >>>> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently >>>> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the >>>> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which >>>> seems to >>>> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work >>>> on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to >>>> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to >>>> writing >>>> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its >>>> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have >>>> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should >>>> please many, James especially. >>>> >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From Ken.Gammage at directed.com Tue Feb 15 22:53:52 2011 From: Ken.Gammage at directed.com (Ken Gammage) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:53:52 -0800 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Message-ID: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> Apparently I don?t have ?Loeb?s Horace? in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have ?BITTER LEMONS,? ? and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, emotions. ?Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed.? He doesn?t want to cause any more trouble. But still ? even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful impression. I don?t know more about it at the moment: when it was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject matter, it is terribly sad. -- Ken ________________________________ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] CPC and LGD Ken, The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell in 1958. The two are very different poets, however. Cavafy is better at infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In the Evening." In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." A poem I like, H. R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: Larry and Sparrow in the Dark Garden at Sommi?res ? June 1986," in the current issue of Deus Loci, owes more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. That I find ironic, given the publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. Bruce On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: I don?t think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would like to see this again ? I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a few years ago ? and inhaled it! I don?t think I?ve ever sat down and read a whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell?s translation of ?The Afternoon Sun? in Clea the best. -- Ken This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110215/bb6ae425/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Wed Feb 16 01:20:08 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:20:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] Gerald Durrell Message-ID: <835066.85807.qm@web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> As there has been some slight discussion of the relative merits of LD and GD as writers, members of this group might like to see the following by GD: 'In the Theatre [Prose poem]' They brought him in on a stretcher, starched and white, every stitch of it showing hospital work. They slid him on to the cold stone table. He was dressed in pyjamas and jacket, his face looked as if it was carved out of cuttlefish. A student fidgeted, someone coughed, huskily, uneasily. The doctor looked up sharply at the new nurse; she was white as marble, twisting a blue lace handkerchief in her butterfly-like hands. The scalpel whispered as if it were cutting silk, showing the intestines coiled up heatly [sic] like watchsprings. The doctor's hands moved with the speed of?a striking snake, cutting, fastening, probing. At last, a pinkish-grey thing like a sausage came out in the scorpion-like grip of the pincers. Then the sewing-up, the needle burying itself in the soft depth and appearing on the other side of the abyss, drawing the skin together like a magnet. The stretcher groaned at the sudden weight. [ends] This was published in The Booster, 1937. GD was 12 years old. From delospeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 16 02:32:13 2011 From: delospeter at hotmail.com (PETER BALDWIN) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:32:13 +0000 Subject: [ilds] genetic criticism In-Reply-To: <4D5B6658.4010709@ualberta.ca> References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com>, <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net>, <4D5AF6DC.3060207@gmail.com>, <4D5B6658.4010709@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Has anyone had any luck contacting the publisher at the email on the order form to order a copy from overseas? I got no reply to my email Peter Baldwin > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:53:28 -0800 > From: gifford at ualberta.ca > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] genetic criticism > > Hello all, > > The evil empire of Facebook reports a very usual number of "hits" to the > essay title below... In the spirit of "boosting" Corinne's book, let me > know directly if you want a copy of the specific paper -- it's the worst > essay in the book, by far (entirely due to my work, not my co-author), > so if you're kind enough to like that essay, you should definitely order > the whole book from Univ. Presses Paris Ouest... The rest of it is very > fine work indeed. > > :) > > Best, > James > > 15/02/11 1:57 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > > > I've attached the advert and order form for Corinne's book here. It's > > hot off the presses and only reached my hands last week -- it's worth > > getting for those interested in the scholarly matters or for anyone who > > was in the Paris 2008 conference. > > > > My piece is: > > > > Gifford, James and Michael Stevens. "A Variant of Lawrence Durrell's > > Livia; or, Buried Alive & the Composition of Monsieur; or, the Prince of > > Darkness." /Lawrence Durrell at the Crossroads of Arts and Sciences/. > > Eds. Corinne Alexandre-Garner, Isabelle Keller-Privat, & Murielle > > Philippe. Paris: Presses Universitaires de Paris Ouest, 2010. 173-193. > > > > I dug up some intended revisions to /Monsieur/ that were too late for > > the print run, and Stevens and I contend that this influenced his first > > visions of /Livia/, a fragment of which was received by /The Malahat > > Review/ and published as "Gog and Magog." He revised again to bury his > > tracks, but it seems to set out the Avignon Quintet's vision in plainer > > terms than is usually the case. > > > > Cheers, > > James > > > > On 15/02/11 1:40 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> James, > >> > >> You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are the > >> titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: > >> > >>> Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within > >>> shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must > >>> have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been featured in > >>> some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. > >>> > >>> I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over > >>> genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity outside of > >>> the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young scholar at > >>> Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce > >>> scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else in 20th > >>> Century literature, so far as I can see. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> James > >>> > >>> On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >>>> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has several > >>>> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah > >>>> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. > >>>> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently > >>>> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the > >>>> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which > >>>> seems to > >>>> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work > >>>> on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to > >>>> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to > >>>> writing > >>>> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its > >>>> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have > >>>> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should > >>>> please many, James especially. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Bruce > >>>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/f5edf5a1/attachment.html From alfandary at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 02:52:14 2011 From: alfandary at gmail.com (Rony Alfandary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:52:14 +0200 Subject: [ilds] reference Message-ID: hello, i am sure many will know this - but i am looking for the exact letter to Fliess from which Durrell took his quotation by Freud regarding the four people involved in every sexual act etc in Justine. much obliged. Rony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/06415cd4/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 08:25:11 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 08:25:11 -0800 Subject: [ilds] reference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D5BFA67.5010408@gmail.com> Hi Rony, It's page 289 in this edition: Freud, Sigmund. /The Origins of Psycho-analysis; Letters to Wilhelm Fliess, Drafts and Notes, 1887-1902/. Ed. Marie Bonaparte, Anna Freud, and Ernst Kris. Trans. Eric Mosbacher and James Strachey. New York: Basic Books, 1954. Alas, I don't have the date, but a quick look through the index to Freud's works or the concordance should do it. It's worth noting the context of the epigram to /Justine/. The preceding two sentences prior to those quotes are: "Now for bisexuality! I am sure you are right." Best, James On 16/02/11 2:52 AM, Rony Alfandary wrote: > hello, > i am sure many will know this - but i am looking for the exact letter to > Fliess from which Durrell took his quotation by Freud regarding the four > people involved in every sexual act etc in Justine. > much obliged. > Rony > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 08:40:05 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 08:40:05 -0800 Subject: [ilds] reference - Fliess In-Reply-To: <4D5BFA67.5010408@gmail.com> References: <4D5BFA67.5010408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D5BFDE5.2060500@gmail.com> A quick online check gives the date as 1 August 1899, if Harry Trosman is quoting it correctly in /Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association/. As Charles and Michael Haag have pointed out, "modern love" was "bisexual love" in the earlier forms of the novel, but Faber didn't approve... We had "much to talk about" on the list some 4 years ago! You can search the list archives here if it's a help: https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/ https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/2007-April.txt The epigrams were discussed quite a bit when the listserv was moved from Florida to British Columbia, so it's at the bottom of the Archive page in April 2007. Cheers, James On 16/02/11 8:25 AM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Rony, > > It's page 289 in this edition: > > Freud, Sigmund. /The Origins of Psycho-analysis; Letters to Wilhelm > Fliess, Drafts and Notes, 1887-1902/. Ed. Marie Bonaparte, Anna Freud, > and Ernst Kris. Trans. Eric Mosbacher and James Strachey. New York: > Basic Books, 1954. > > Alas, I don't have the date, but a quick look through the index to > Freud's works or the concordance should do it. > > It's worth noting the context of the epigram to /Justine/. The > preceding two sentences prior to those quotes are: > > "Now for bisexuality! I am sure you are right." > > Best, > James > > On 16/02/11 2:52 AM, Rony Alfandary wrote: >> hello, >> i am sure many will know this - but i am looking for the exact letter to >> Fliess from which Durrell took his quotation by Freud regarding the four >> people involved in every sexual act etc in Justine. >> much obliged. >> Rony >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 08:51:19 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 08:51:19 -0800 Subject: [ilds] genetic criticism In-Reply-To: References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com>, <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net>, <4D5AF6DC.3060207@gmail.com>, <4D5B6658.4010709@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <4D5C0087.1010902@gmail.com> Hi Peter, The person who belongs to that email appears to be Thomas Giot-Mikkelsen. I'd contact the Press directly: www.pressesparisouest.fr http://www.pressesparisouest.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=168&Itemid=110 Sorry not to be more of a help. Best, James On 16/02/11 2:32 AM, PETER BALDWIN wrote: > Has anyone had any luck contacting the publisher at the email on the > order form to order a copy from overseas? > > I got no reply to my email > > Peter Baldwin > > > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:53:28 -0800 > > From: gifford at ualberta.ca > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: Re: [ilds] genetic criticism > > > > Hello all, > > > > The evil empire of Facebook reports a very usual number of "hits" to the > > essay title below... In the spirit of "boosting" Corinne's book, let me > > know directly if you want a copy of the specific paper -- it's the worst > > essay in the book, by far (entirely due to my work, not my co-author), > > so if you're kind enough to like that essay, you should definitely order > > the whole book from Univ. Presses Paris Ouest... The rest of it is very > > fine work indeed. > > > > :) > > > > Best, > > James > > > > 15/02/11 1:57 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > > > I've attached the advert and order form for Corinne's book here. It's > > > hot off the presses and only reached my hands last week -- it's worth > > > getting for those interested in the scholarly matters or for anyone who > > > was in the Paris 2008 conference. > > > > > > My piece is: > > > > > > Gifford, James and Michael Stevens. "A Variant of Lawrence Durrell's > > > Livia; or, Buried Alive & the Composition of Monsieur; or, the > Prince of > > > Darkness." /Lawrence Durrell at the Crossroads of Arts and Sciences/. > > > Eds. Corinne Alexandre-Garner, Isabelle Keller-Privat, & Murielle > > > Philippe. Paris: Presses Universitaires de Paris Ouest, 2010. 173-193. > > > > > > I dug up some intended revisions to /Monsieur/ that were too late for > > > the print run, and Stevens and I contend that this influenced his first > > > visions of /Livia/, a fragment of which was received by /The Malahat > > > Review/ and published as "Gog and Magog." He revised again to bury his > > > tracks, but it seems to set out the Avignon Quintet's vision in plainer > > > terms than is usually the case. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > James > > > > > > On 15/02/11 1:40 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > >> James, > > >> > > >> You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are the > > >> titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? > > >> > > >> > > >> Bruce > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within > > >>> shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must > > >>> have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been > featured in > > >>> some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. > > >>> > > >>> I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over > > >>> genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity > outside of > > >>> the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young > scholar at > > >>> Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce > > >>> scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else > in 20th > > >>> Century literature, so far as I can see. > > >>> > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> James > > >>> > > >>> On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > >>>> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has > several > > >>>> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah > > >>>> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on > Joyce. > > >>>> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently > > >>>> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the > > >>>> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which > > >>>> seems to > > >>>> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an > author's work > > >>>> on a reader, which many List participants have related with > respect to > > >>>> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to > > >>>> writing > > >>>> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out > of its > > >>>> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. > I have > > >>>> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should > > >>>> please many, James especially. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Bruce > > >>>> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> ILDS mailing list > > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From william.godshalk at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 10:57:11 2011 From: william.godshalk at gmail.com (William Godshalk) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:57:11 -0500 Subject: [ilds] For love of Molly (TLS, 04 Feb 2011) In-Reply-To: References: <4D5ACE3D.7000409@gmail.com> <8ECD49A3-5A6F-4D42-8188-B1B2FB55581C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/nholland/thei-pt1.htm On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 5:58 PM, William Godshalk < william.godshalk at gmail.com> wrote: > I'd put Norman Holland in this context. Norman spent most of his scholarly > life arguing that our personal identities dictate how we read and how we > write. I think his *The I* is a masterpiece -- in the school of Freud -- > and it's on line, last I checked. > > Bill > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Bruce Redwine > wrote: > >> James, >> >> You've probably posted this before. Please do so again. What are the >> titles of Alexandre-Garner's book and your essay? >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Feb 15, 2011, at 11:04 AM, James Gifford wrote: >> >> > Yes, Michael is a very fine scholar, and I think he was born within >> > shouting distance of the Canadian border, so the Northward pull must >> > have been irresistible. The bookcases of his home have been featured in >> > some Canadian magazines as well... He does good work. >> > >> > I have a piece in Corinne's most recent book that gently muses over >> > genetic criticism, which is still largely a French activity outside of >> > the Joyce scholarship. My co-author Michael Stevens, a young scholar at >> > Trinity College Dublin, did very good work on that piece. The Joyce >> > scholars are doing more with genetic criticism than anyone else in 20th >> > Century literature, so far as I can see. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > James >> > >> > On 15/02/11 10:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> >> The 4 February 2011 issue of /The Time Literary Supplement/ has several >> >> good reviews (re Nabokov, plagiarism, Joyce). In particular is Sarah >> >> Davison's very interesting article on two recent publications on Joyce. >> >> Her review of Michael Groden's book on JJ focuses on topics recently >> >> touched upon by the ILDS List. Namely, "genetic criticism" (the >> >> evolution of a manuscript and assessing that importance), which seems >> to >> >> be of interest to James and Charles, and the impact of an author's work >> >> on a reader, which many List participants have related with respect to >> >> Lawrence Durrell. The latter I find intriguing as an approach to >> writing >> >> and publication ? an indication that scholarship is breaking out of its >> >> narrow confines and finds it acceptable to relate the personal. I have >> >> ordered Groden's book. Michael Groden is Canadian, and that should >> >> please many, James especially. >> >> >> >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/c74fd8d0/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 16 10:28:24 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:28:24 -0800 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem In-Reply-To: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> Message-ID: <3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net> Ken, The full title of "Loeb's Horace" is "On First Looking into Loeb's Horace" (1943), an allusion to Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" and those "realms of gold." The late Peter Porter called it Durrell's greatest. It's difficult. I've published and commented on this before, as has James, so I won't repeat. Our readings are just about diametrically opposed, which attests, I think, to the poem's greatness. Here are some notes on "Bitter Lemons," an easier poem to understand, as far as "easy" ever applies to LGD. It's another great poem and one of my favorites. 1. The poem appears at the end of the book of the same title, so it's only natural to take it as coda and summa. But just as the book leaves a lot "unsaid," particularly in biographical detail, so does the poem. 2. "Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. 3. "The dark globes of the fruit." Fruit is not specified, but the reader naturally assumes that to be lemons. But when are yellow lemons "dark," especially in the light of the "moon's cool fevers?" And when are fevers ever "cool?" Durrell likes paradox, oxymoron, contradiction. 4. The use of "dark" recalls the "dark crystal" imagery of Prospero's Cell (pp. 11, 133), The Greek Islands (p. 21), and "Letter to Seferis the Greek" (l. 11). In this regard, I'd even include The Dark Labyrinth. Dark has special meaning for LDG. He sees darkness in light, something similar to Milton's "darkness visible." 5. "Beauty, darkness, vehemence" ? what do these nouns refer to? A whole line of abstractions, the kind of thing poets are not supposed to do. Isn't "be specific" the thing usually taught in Writing Poetry 1A? A couple of years ago Michael Haag pointed out to me that similar words appeared earlier in the Epilogue to Reflections on a Marine Venus: "the dark vehement grace of E." E refers to Eve Cohen, Durrell's second wife, and Eve figures in the background of Bitter Lemons, but she goes "unsaid," unless you want to pick her out of the "dementia" of Turner's Venice at the beginning. To understand LGD fully you have to absorb just about everything he wrote. He cross-references himself. 6. Finally, note the repetition of the two concluding lines, "Keep its calms like tears unshed." The lines beautifully mimic the action of waves, "the Greek sea's curly head." Moreover, the rhymes of unsaid/unshed repeat and underscore the hidden aspects of the poem. The poem "Bitter Lemons" suggests to me that Lawrence Durrell is hiding a lot of personal pain and using poetry as a means of catharsis. Bruce On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: > Apparently I don?t have ?Loeb?s Horace? in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have ?BITTER LEMONS,? ? and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, emotions. ?Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed.? He doesn?t want to cause any more trouble. But still ? even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful impression. I don?t know more about it at the moment: when it was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject matter, it is terribly sad. > > -- Ken > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Subject: [ilds] CPC and LGD > > Ken, > > The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell in 1958. The two are very different poets, however. Cavafy is better at infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In the Evening." In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." A poem I like, H. R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: Larry and Sparrow in the Dark Garden at Sommi?res ? June 1986," in the current issue of Deus Loci, owes more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. That I find ironic, given the publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. > > > Bruce > > > > On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: > >> I don?t think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would like to see this again ? I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a few years ago ? and inhaled it! I don?t think I?ve ever sat down and read a whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell?s translation of ?The Afternoon Sun? in Clea the best. >> >> -- Ken >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/722f83c4/attachment.html From zahlan at earthlink.net Wed Feb 16 11:15:59 2011 From: zahlan at earthlink.net (Anne R Zahlan) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:15:59 -0500 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> <3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7EE3CC3E03AF47B6BDDFD1A4979F44D2@annezahlan1> In response to this comment and just for the record: 2. "Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. In fact there are "sweet lemons" (see below). In colloquial eastern Arabic, the following terms exist "lemon helou" sweet lemon(s) and "lemon hamoud" sour lemon(s). Sweet Lemon (C. limetta Risso)?a general name for certain non-acid lemons or limettas, favored in the Mediterranean region, In India, they are grown in the Nilgiris, Malabar and other areas. The fruits are usually insipid, occasionally subacid or acid. The seeds are white within and the tree is large, resembling that of the orange. One cultivar, called 'Dorshapo' after the plant explorers, Dorsett, Shamel and Popenoe, who introduced it from Brazil in 1914, resembles the 'Eureka' in most respects except for the lack of acidity. Another, called 'Millsweet', apparently was introduced into California from Mexico and planted in a mission garden. It was reproduced at the old University of California Experiment Station at Pomona. Neither is of any commercial value. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Ken, The full title of "Loeb's Horace" is "On First Looking into Loeb's Horace" (1943), an allusion to Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" and those "realms of gold." The late Peter Porter called it Durrell's greatest. It's difficult. I've published and commented on this before, as has James, so I won't repeat. Our readings are just about diametrically opposed, which attests, I think, to the poem's greatness. Here are some notes on "Bitter Lemons," an easier poem to understand, as far as "easy" ever applies to LGD. It's another great poem and one of my favorites. 1. The poem appears at the end of the book of the same title, so it's only natural to take it as coda and summa. But just as the book leaves a lot "unsaid," particularly in biographical detail, so does the poem. 2. "Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. 3. "The dark globes of the fruit." Fruit is not specified, but the reader naturally assumes that to be lemons. But when are yellow lemons "dark," especially in the light of the "moon's cool fevers?" And when are fevers ever "cool?" Durrell likes paradox, oxymoron, contradiction. 4. The use of "dark" recalls the "dark crystal" imagery of Prospero's Cell (pp. 11, 133), The Greek Islands (p. 21), and "Letter to Seferis the Greek" (l. 11). In this regard, I'd even include The Dark Labyrinth. Dark has special meaning for LDG. He sees darkness in light, something similar to Milton's "darkness visible." 5. "Beauty, darkness, vehemence" ? what do these nouns refer to? A whole line of abstractions, the kind of thing poets are not supposed to do. Isn't "be specific" the thing usually taught in Writing Poetry 1A? A couple of years ago Michael Haag pointed out to me that similar words appeared earlier in the Epilogue to Reflections on a Marine Venus: "the dark vehement grace of E." E refers to Eve Cohen, Durrell's second wife, and Eve figures in the background of Bitter Lemons, but she goes "unsaid," unless you want to pick her out of the "dementia" of Turner's Venice at the beginning. To understand LGD fully you have to absorb just about everything he wrote. He cross-references himself. 6. Finally, note the repetition of the two concluding lines, "Keep its calms like tears unshed." The lines beautifully mimic the action of waves, "the Greek sea's curly head." Moreover, the rhymes of unsaid/unshed repeat and underscore the hidden aspects of the poem. The poem "Bitter Lemons" suggests to me that Lawrence Durrell is hiding a lot of personal pain and using poetry as a means of catharsis. Bruce On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: Apparently I don?t have ?Loeb?s Horace? in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have ?BITTER LEMONS,? ? and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, emotions. ?Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed.? He doesn?t want to cause any more trouble. But still ? even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful impression. I don?t know more about it at the moment: when it was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject matter, it is terribly sad. -- Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] CPC and LGD Ken, The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell in 1958. The two are very different poets, however. Cavafy is better at infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In the Evening." In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." A poem I like, H. R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: Larry and Sparrow in the Dark Garden at Sommi?res ? June 1986," in the current issue of Deus Loci, owes more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. That I find ironic, given the publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. Bruce On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: I don?t think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would like to see this again ? I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a few years ago ? and inhaled it! I don?t think I?ve ever sat down and read a whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell?s translation of ?The Afternoon Sun? in Clea the best. -- Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/656e3afe/attachment.html From Ken.Gammage at directed.com Wed Feb 16 11:18:27 2011 From: Ken.Gammage at directed.com (Ken Gammage) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:18:27 -0800 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem In-Reply-To: <3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> <3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765E3FB36A@mail2.directed.com> Wonderful! Thanks for that. But I have one quibble that perhaps is germane. "Bitter" and "Sour" are two separate tastes that the tongue can distinguish. I was taught that lemons are sour - and that quinine is bitter. I was thinking of this last night while reading the poem - did Durrell agree with this distinction, and if so, what the title of both the book and the poem then implies - other than the universal bitterness resulting from Enosis. -- Ken From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:28 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Ken, The full title of "Loeb's Horace" is "On First Looking into Loeb's Horace" (1943), an allusion to Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" and those "realms of gold." The late Peter Porter called it Durrell's greatest. It's difficult. I've published and commented on this before, as has James, so I won't repeat. Our readings are just about diametrically opposed, which attests, I think, to the poem's greatness. Here are some notes on "Bitter Lemons," an easier poem to understand, as far as "easy" ever applies to LGD. It's another great poem and one of my favorites. 1. The poem appears at the end of the book of the same title, so it's only natural to take it as coda and summa. But just as the book leaves a lot "unsaid," particularly in biographical detail, so does the poem. 2. "Bitter Lemons" - the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. 3. "The dark globes of the fruit." Fruit is not specified, but the reader naturally assumes that to be lemons. But when are yellow lemons "dark," especially in the light of the "moon's cool fevers?" And when are fevers ever "cool?" Durrell likes paradox, oxymoron, contradiction. 4. The use of "dark" recalls the "dark crystal" imagery of Prospero's Cell (pp. 11, 133), The Greek Islands (p. 21), and "Letter to Seferis the Greek" (l. 11). In this regard, I'd even include The Dark Labyrinth. Dark has special meaning for LDG. He sees darkness in light, something similar to Milton's "darkness visible." 5. "Beauty, darkness, vehemence" - what do these nouns refer to? A whole line of abstractions, the kind of thing poets are not supposed to do. Isn't "be specific" the thing usually taught in Writing Poetry 1A? A couple of years ago Michael Haag pointed out to me that similar words appeared earlier in the Epilogue to Reflections on a Marine Venus: "the dark vehement grace of E." E refers to Eve Cohen, Durrell's second wife, and Eve figures in the background of Bitter Lemons, but she goes "unsaid," unless you want to pick her out of the "dementia" of Turner's Venice at the beginning. To understand LGD fully you have to absorb just about everything he wrote. He cross-references himself. 6. Finally, note the repetition of the two concluding lines, "Keep its calms like tears unshed." The lines beautifully mimic the action of waves, "the Greek sea's curly head." Moreover, the rhymes of unsaid/unshed repeat and underscore the hidden aspects of the poem. The poem "Bitter Lemons" suggests to me that Lawrence Durrell is hiding a lot of personal pain and using poetry as a means of catharsis. Bruce On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: Apparently I don't have "Loeb's Horace" in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have "BITTER LEMONS," - and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, emotions. "Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed." He doesn't want to cause any more trouble. But still - even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful impression. I don't know more about it at the moment: when it was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject matter, it is terribly sad. -- Ken ________________________________ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] CPC and LGD Ken, The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell in 1958. The two are very different poets, however. Cavafy is better at infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In the Evening." In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." A poem I like, H. R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: Larry and Sparrow in the Dark Garden at Sommi?res - June 1986," in the current issue of Deus Loci, owes more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. That I find ironic, given the publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. Bruce On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: I don't think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would like to see this again - I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a few years ago - and inhaled it! I don't think I've ever sat down and read a whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell's translation of "The Afternoon Sun" in Clea the best. -- Ken This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/5904e7eb/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Wed Feb 16 12:03:12 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 07:03:12 +1100 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem In-Reply-To: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765E3FB36A@mail2.directed.com> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com><3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net> <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765E3FB36A@mail2.directed.com> Message-ID: the line that puzzles me is 'habits half a lifetime dead'. The rest I get, pretty much. And dark globes...apart from the idea of hidden secrets, how about the lemons in the half light of a moonlit night; works for me. David From: Ken Gammage Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:18 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Wonderful! Thanks for that. But I have one quibble that perhaps is germane. "Bitter" and "Sour" are two separate tastes that the tongue can distinguish. I was taught that lemons are sour - and that quinine is bitter. I was thinking of this last night while reading the poem - did Durrell agree with this distinction, and if so, what the title of both the book and the poem then implies - other than the universal bitterness resulting from Enosis. -- Ken From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:28 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Ken, The full title of "Loeb's Horace" is "On First Looking into Loeb's Horace" (1943), an allusion to Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" and those "realms of gold." The late Peter Porter called it Durrell's greatest. It's difficult. I've published and commented on this before, as has James, so I won't repeat. Our readings are just about diametrically opposed, which attests, I think, to the poem's greatness. Here are some notes on "Bitter Lemons," an easier poem to understand, as far as "easy" ever applies to LGD. It's another great poem and one of my favorites. 1. The poem appears at the end of the book of the same title, so it's only natural to take it as coda and summa. But just as the book leaves a lot "unsaid," particularly in biographical detail, so does the poem. 2. "Bitter Lemons" - the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. 3. "The dark globes of the fruit." Fruit is not specified, but the reader naturally assumes that to be lemons. But when are yellow lemons "dark," especially in the light of the "moon's cool fevers?" And when are fevers ever "cool?" Durrell likes paradox, oxymoron, contradiction. 4. The use of "dark" recalls the "dark crystal" imagery of Prospero's Cell (pp. 11, 133), The Greek Islands (p. 21), and "Letter to Seferis the Greek" (l. 11). In this regard, I'd even include The Dark Labyrinth. Dark has special meaning for LDG. He sees darkness in light, something similar to Milton's "darkness visible." 5. "Beauty, darkness, vehemence" - what do these nouns refer to? A whole line of abstractions, the kind of thing poets are not supposed to do. Isn't "be specific" the thing usually taught in Writing Poetry 1A? A couple of years ago Michael Haag pointed out to me that similar words appeared earlier in the Epilogue to Reflections on a Marine Venus: "the dark vehement grace of E." E refers to Eve Cohen, Durrell's second wife, and Eve figures in the background of Bitter Lemons, but she goes "unsaid," unless you want to pick her out of the "dementia" of Turner's Venice at the beginning. To understand LGD fully you have to absorb just about everything he wrote. He cross-references himself. 6. Finally, note the repetition of the two concluding lines, "Keep its calms like tears unshed." The lines beautifully mimic the action of waves, "the Greek sea's curly head." Moreover, the rhymes of unsaid/unshed repeat and underscore the hidden aspects of the poem. The poem "Bitter Lemons" suggests to me that Lawrence Durrell is hiding a lot of personal pain and using poetry as a means of catharsis. Bruce On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: Apparently I don't have "Loeb's Horace" in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have "BITTER LEMONS," - and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, emotions. "Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed." He doesn't want to cause any more trouble. But still - even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful impression. I don't know more about it at the moment: when it was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject matter, it is terribly sad. -- Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] CPC and LGD Ken, The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell in 1958. The two are very different poets, however. Cavafy is better at infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In the Evening." In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." A poem I like, H. R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: Larry and Sparrow in the Dark Garden at Sommi?res - June 1986," in the current issue of Deus Loci, owes more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. That I find ironic, given the publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. Bruce On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: I don't think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would like to see this again - I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a few years ago - and inhaled it! I don't think I've ever sat down and read a whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell's translation of "The Afternoon Sun" in Clea the best. -- Ken This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110217/7c69edb5/attachment.html From alfandary at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 12:49:58 2011 From: alfandary at gmail.com (Rony Alfandary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:49:58 +0200 Subject: [ilds] Freud's letter to Fliess Message-ID: Thank you and here's the complete letter Letter from Freud to Fliess, August 1, 1899 [image: Book Information] [image: Previous] [image: Up] [image: Next] Sigmund Freud Riemerlehen, August 1, 18991 Vienna IX., Berggasse 19 Dear Wilhelm, I am sending you the first proofs of the introductory (literature) chapter in two envelopes at the same time. If there is anything you object to, send me that page with your remarks; there is still time to use them, until the second or third proofs. I cannot tell you how much good your lively interest in this work does me. Unfortunately, this chapter will prove to be a hard test for the reader. Things are incomparably beautiful here; we take walks, long and short, and all of us are very well, except for my occasional symptoms. I am working on the completion of the dream book in a large, quiet, ground-floor room with a view of the mountains. My old and grubby gods, of whom you think so little, take part in the work as paperweights for my manuscripts. The loss of the big dream that you eliminated is to be compensated for by the insertion of a small collection of dreams(harmless, absurd dreams; calculations and speeches in dreams; affects in dreams). Only the last, psychological chapter needs to be reworked, and that I shall perhaps tackle in September and send you in manuscript form or ? bring with me. It occupies my full interest. There are some mushrooms here as well, though not yet many. The children naturally join in the hunt for them. The birthday of the - 363 - mistress of the house was duly celebrated, among other things by a family excursion to Bartholom?ussee [K?nigssee]. You should have seen Annerl on the K?nigssee! Martin, who lives entirely in his fantasy world here, built himself a malepartus2 in the woods and said yesterday, ?I do not actually believe that my so-called poems are really good.? We did not disturb him in his moment of insight. Oli is again practicing the exact recording of routes, distances, names of places and mountains. Mathilde is a complete human being and of course altogether feminine. All of them are doing fine. I presume you have tried in vain to convince Father Pineles that both of us are prophets. He is otherwise a likable and fine, knowledgeable man who has become closer to me because he is a relative of my old friend Professor Herzig. He has inhaled too much of the clinical air, which contains a variety of potent toxins. I hear that Breuer commented on my last work (forgetting), saying once again he was not surprised that no one thought anything of my work if I left gaps of that sort. He thought I had failed to demonstrate how I visualized the connections between death and sexuality. Once the dream book is ready and published, he will be able to be appalled by the contrary, by the abundant indiscretions. Only if chance will have bestowed a title on me (most unlikely) will he crawl on his stomach. The farther the work of the past year recedes, the more satisfied I become. But bisexuality! You are certainly right about it. I am accustoming myself to regarding every sexual act as a process in which four individuals are involved. We have a lot to discuss on this topic. A good deal of what you say in your letter distresses me greatly. I wish I could help. Give my most cordial greetings to your whole family and do remember Riemerlehen, where I am. Most cordially, Your Sigm. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/e90ce3aa/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 16 13:22:08 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:22:08 -0800 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem In-Reply-To: <7EE3CC3E03AF47B6BDDFD1A4979F44D2@annezahlan1> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> <3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net> <7EE3CC3E03AF47B6BDDFD1A4979F44D2@annezahlan1> Message-ID: <7686C3FF-655D-4596-8940-C998B949E960@earthlink.net> Anne and Ken, It's useful to study Durrell diction which shows how he goes about creating his inner "world." Re "bitter lemons" as a variety of lemons, did LGD know colloquial eastern Arabic? Does Cyprus have this variety? Does Durrell ever refer to "sweet lemons" and enable a comparison? I only find references to "bitter lemons" in this book. Perhaps he has the bitter variety in mind. Perhaps all these questions are true, although the fact that sweet lemons have little "commercial value" would argue against the distinction. Aside from the questionable validity of my comment on "bitter," I'm suggesting that Durrell creates his own semantic field in this poem, one which relies on repetition, redundancy, and contradiction ? all of which have meaning within the context of "habits half a lifetime dead" or not. I wonder if the skin of the "sweet lemon" is dark. Perhaps someone can comment. The bitter-sour distinction is correct. I find, however, no references to "sour" in Bitter Lemons but twelve to "sweet." Old LD definitely had a sweet tooth. Whether he confused sour with bitter, as I do, is open to debate. I also find it interesting that the darkness at the end of Bitter Lemons (1957) turns to light at the beginning of Clea (1960). The novel opens thus: "The oranges were more plentiful than usual that year. They glowed in their arbours of burnished green leaf like lanterns, flickering up there among the sunny woods." So, instead of "dark globes" we have bright "lanterns" of fruit. In my mind's eye, the islands are the same, Cyprus, where Justine was written, where I see Darley residing in exile. This fits a stage in Durrell's life. Things were must sunnier for him in 1960. Bruce On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Anne R Zahlan wrote: > > > In response to this comment and just for the record: > > 2. "Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. > > In fact there are "sweet lemons" (see below). In colloquial eastern Arabic, the following terms exist "lemon helou" sweet lemon(s) and "lemon hamoud" sour lemon(s). > Sweet Lemon (C. limetta Risso)?a general name for certain non-acid lemons or limettas, favored in the Mediterranean region, In India, they are grown in the Nilgiris, Malabar and other areas. The fruits are usually insipid, occasionally subacid or acid. The seeds are white within and the tree is large, resembling that of the orange. One cultivar, called 'Dorshapo' after the plant explorers, Dorsett, Shamel and Popenoe, who introduced it from Brazil in 1914, resembles the 'Eureka' in most respects except for the lack of acidity. Another, called 'Millsweet', apparently was introduced into California from Mexico and planted in a mission garden. It was reproduced at the old University of California Experiment Station at Pomona. Neither is of any commercial value. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Redwine > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem > > Ken, > > The full title of "Loeb's Horace" is "On First Looking into Loeb's Horace" (1943), an allusion to Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" and those "realms of gold." The late Peter Porter called it Durrell's greatest. It's difficult. I've published and commented on this before, as has James, so I won't repeat. Our readings are just about diametrically opposed, which attests, I think, to the poem's greatness. > > Here are some notes on "Bitter Lemons," an easier poem to understand, as far as "easy" ever applies to LGD. It's another great poem and one of my favorites. > > 1. The poem appears at the end of the book of the same title, so it's only natural to take it as coda and summa. But just as the book leaves a lot "unsaid," particularly in biographical detail, so does the poem. > > 2. "Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. > > 3. "The dark globes of the fruit." Fruit is not specified, but the reader naturally assumes that to be lemons. But when are yellow lemons "dark," especially in the light of the "moon's cool fevers?" And when are fevers ever "cool?" Durrell likes paradox, oxymoron, contradiction. > > 4. The use of "dark" recalls the "dark crystal" imagery of Prospero's Cell (pp. 11, 133), The Greek Islands (p. 21), and "Letter to Seferis the Greek" (l. 11). In this regard, I'd even include The Dark Labyrinth. Dark has special meaning for LDG. He sees darkness in light, something similar to Milton's "darkness visible." > > 5. "Beauty, darkness, vehemence" ? what do these nouns refer to? A whole line of abstractions, the kind of thing poets are not supposed to do. Isn't "be specific" the thing usually taught in Writing Poetry 1A? A couple of years ago Michael Haag pointed out to me that similar words appeared earlier in the Epilogue to Reflections on a Marine Venus: "the dark vehement grace of E." E refers to Eve Cohen, Durrell's second wife, and Eve figures in the background of Bitter Lemons, but she goes "unsaid," unless you want to pick her out of the "dementia" of Turner's Venice at the beginning. To understand LGD fully you have to absorb just about everything he wrote. He cross-references himself. > > 6. Finally, note the repetition of the two concluding lines, "Keep its calms like tears unshed." The lines beautifully mimic the action of waves, "the Greek sea's curly head." Moreover, the rhymes of unsaid/unshed repeat and underscore the hidden aspects of the poem. The poem "Bitter Lemons" suggests to me that Lawrence Durrell is hiding a lot of personal pain and using poetry as a means of catharsis. > > > Bruce > > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: > >> Apparently I don?t have ?Loeb?s Horace? in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have ?BITTER LEMONS,? ? and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, emotions. ?Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed.? He doesn?t want to cause any more trouble. But still ? even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful impression. I don?t know more about it at the moment: when it was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject matter, it is terribly sad. >> -- Ken >> >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Subject: [ilds] CPC and LGD >> >> Ken, >> >> The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell in 1958. The two are very different poets, however. Cavafy is better at infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In the Evening." In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." A poem I like, H. R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: Larry and Sparrow in the Dark Garden at Sommi?res ? June 1986," in the current issue of Deus Loci, owes more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. That I find ironic, given the publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: >> >>> I don?t think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would like to see this again ? I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a few years ago ? and inhaled it! I don?t think I?ve ever sat down and read a whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell?s translation of ?The Afternoon Sun? in Clea the best. >>> >>> -- Ken >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110216/b5fbbd8a/attachment.html From holistic3000 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 17 05:52:50 2011 From: holistic3000 at yahoo.com (Ozlem Ince) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 05:52:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem In-Reply-To: <7686C3FF-655D-4596-8940-C998B949E960@earthlink.net> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> <3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net> <7EE3CC3E03AF47B6BDDFD1A4979F44D2@annezahlan1> <7686C3FF-655D-4596-8940-C998B949E960@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <430572.25828.qm@web33704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lemons?are a good sequel to the?"sea, sand and sun" trinity associated?with the islands. Morocco has its tangerins as well...Durrell might have wanted to?express his?"bitter" experiences, but not in a personal way. So, he used the word bitter in conjunction with lemon, to avoid any personal statement.. ________________________________ From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 11:22:08 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Anne and Ken, It's useful to study Durrell diction which shows how he goes about creating his inner "world." Re "bitter lemons" as a variety of lemons, did LGD know colloquial eastern Arabic? ?Does Cyprus have this variety? ?Does Durrell ever refer to "sweet lemons" and enable a comparison? ?I only find references to "bitter lemons" in this book. ?Perhaps he has the bitter variety in mind. ?Perhaps all these questions are true, although the fact that sweet lemons have little "commercial value" would argue against the distinction. ?Aside from the questionable validity of my comment on "bitter," I'm suggesting that Durrell creates his own semantic field in this poem, one which relies on repetition, redundancy, and contradiction ??all of?which have meaning within the context of "habits half a lifetime dead" or not. I wonder if the skin of the "sweet lemon" is dark. ?Perhaps someone can comment. The bitter-sour distinctionis correct. ?I find, however, no references to "sour" in Bitter Lemons but twelve to "sweet." ?Old LD definitely had a sweet tooth. ?Whether he confused sour with bitter, as I do, is open to debate. I also find it interesting that the darkness at the end of Bitter Lemons?(1957) turns to light at the beginning of Clea (1960). ?The novel opens thus: ?"The oranges were more plentiful?than usual?that year. ?They glowed in their arbours of burnished green leaf like lanterns, flickering up there among the sunny woods." ?So, instead of "dark globes" we have bright "lanterns" of fruit. ?In my mind's eye, the islands are the same, Cyprus, where Justine was written, where I see Darley residing in exile. ?This fits a stage in Durrell's life. ?Things were must sunnier for him in 1960. Bruce On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Anne R Zahlan wrote: ? >In response to this comment and just for the record: >2. ?"Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. ?When are lemons not bitter? ?I'll >make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which >is more than simple emphasis. ?I link redundancy to repetition, a certain >obsessiveness. >>? ??? In fact there are "sweet lemons" (see below).? In colloquial eastern Arabic, the following terms exist "lemon helou" sweet lemon(s) and "lemon hamoud" sour lemon(s). Sweet Lemon?(C.?limetta Risso)?a?general name for certain non-acid lemons or limettas, favored in the Mediterranean region, In India, they are grown in the Nilgiris, Malabar and other areas. The fruits are usually insipid, occasionally subacid or acid. The seeds are white within and the tree is large, resembling that of the orange. One cultivar, called 'Dorshapo' after the plant explorers, Dorsett, Shamel and Popenoe, who introduced it from Brazil in 1914, resembles the 'Eureka' in most respects except for the lack of acidity. Another, called 'Millsweet', apparently was introduced into California from Mexico and planted in a mission garden. It was reproduced at the old University of California Experiment Station at Pomona. Neither is of any commercial value. >? > ? >----- Original Message ----- >>From:?Bruce Redwine >>To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>Cc:?Bruce Redwine >>Sent:?Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:28 PM >>Subject:?Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem >> >>Ken, >> >> >>The full title of "Loeb's Horace" is "On First Looking into Loeb's Horace" >>(1943), an allusion to Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" >>and those "realms of gold." ?The late Peter Porter called it Durrell's greatest. >>?It's difficult. ?I've published and commented on this before, as has James, so >>I won't repeat. ?Our readings are just about diametrically opposed, which >>attests, I think, to the poem's greatness. >> >> >>Here are some notes on "Bitter Lemons," an easier poem to understand, as far as >>"easy" ever applies to LGD. ?It's another great poem and one of my favorites. >> >> >>1. ?The poem appears at the end of the book of the same title, so it's only >>natural to take it as coda and summa. ?But just as the book leaves a lot >>"unsaid," particularly in biographical detail, so does the poem. >> >> >>2. ?"Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. ?When are lemons not bitter? ?I'll >>make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which >>is more than simple emphasis. ?I link redundancy to repetition, a certain >>obsessiveness. >> >> >>3. ?"The dark globes of the fruit." ?Fruit is not specified, but the reader >>naturally assumes that to be lemons. ?But when are yellow lemons "dark," >>especially in the light of the "moon's cool fevers?" ?And when are fevers ever >>"cool?" ?Durrell likes paradox, oxymoron, contradiction. >> >> >>4. ?The use of "dark" recalls the "dark crystal" imagery of?Prospero's Cell?(pp. >>11, 133),?The Greek Islands?(p. 21), and "Letter to Seferis the Greek" (l. 11). >>?In this regard, I'd even include?The Dark Labyrinth.??Dark?has special meaning >>for LDG. ?He sees darkness in light, something similar to Milton's "darkness >>visible." >> >> >>5. ?"Beauty, darkness, vehemence" ? what do these nouns refer to? ?A whole line >>of abstractions, the kind of thing poets are not supposed to do. ?Isn't "be >>specific" the thing usually taught in Writing Poetry 1A? ? A couple of years ago >>Michael Haag pointed out to me that similar words appeared earlier in the >>Epilogue to?Reflections on a Marine Venus:??"the dark vehement grace of E." >>?E?refers to Eve Cohen, Durrell's second wife, and Eve figures in the background >>of?Bitter Lemons,?but she goes "unsaid," unless you want to pick her out of the >>"dementia" of Turner's Venice at the beginning. ?To understand LGD fully you >>have to absorb just about everything he wrote. ?He cross-references himself. >> >> >>6. ?Finally, note the repetition of the two concluding lines, "Keep its calms >>like tears unshed." ?The lines beautifully mimic the action of waves, "the Greek >>sea's curly head." ?Moreover, the rhymes of unsaid/unshed repeat and underscore >>the hidden aspects of the poem. ?The poem "Bitter Lemons" suggests to me that >>Lawrence Durrell is hiding a lot of personal pain and using poetry as a means of >>catharsis. >> >> >> >> >>Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: >> >>Apparently I don?t have ?Loeb?s Horace? in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of >>Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have ?BITTER LEMONS,? ? and yes, I agree >>that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, >>emotions. ?Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes >>he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed.? He doesn?t want to cause any >>more trouble. But still ? even understated, even hiding something: the poem >>leaves a powerful impression. I don?t know more about it at the moment: when it >>was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject >>matter, it is terribly sad. >>>-- Ken >>>? >>> ________________________________ From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] >>>Sent:?Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM >>>To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>>Cc:?Bruce Redwine >>>Subject:?[ilds] CPC and LGD >>> >>> >>>Ken, >>> >>> >>>The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell >>>in 1958. ?The two are very different poets, however. ?Cavafy is better at >>>infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In >>>the Evening." ?In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his >>>emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." ?A poem I like, H. >>>R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: ?Larry and Sparrow in the >>>Dark Garden at Sommi?res ? June 1986," in the current issue of?Deus Loci,?owes >>>more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. ?That I find ironic, given the >>>publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: >>> >>>I don?t think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at >>>the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go >>>out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the >>>U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many >>>listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There >>>are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series >>>My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would >>>like to see this again ? I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of >>>C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the >>>Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a >>>few years ago ? and inhaled it! I don?t think I?ve ever sat down and read a >>>whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell?s translation >>>of ?The Afternoon Sun? in Clea the best. >>>> >>>>-- Ken >>>> >>>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110217/fb076d3f/attachment.html From pan.gero at hotmail.com Fri Feb 18 09:14:03 2011 From: pan.gero at hotmail.com (Panaiotis Gerontopulos) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 19:14:03 +0200 Subject: [ilds] Pope Joan vs.Papissa Ioanna Message-ID: Dear James Thanks for answering my (empty) message. I remember with pleasure the evening spent at the Starbucks of Korais St. discussing with Beatrice Pope Joan vs. Papissa. It was in the autumn of 2003, I think, and you suggested that I should come to Rhodes and discuss my findings in Miracle Ground XIII. I did, but the presentation was a disaster: no Power Point projector available, no discussion. What we have discussed at the Starbucks and what I tried to say in Rhodes reading the slides from my laptop is described in general in the abstract submitted to the organizers of the Conference. (attachment 1) Three years later (this List Oct. 29, 2007), closing a brief debate on Durrell's Homerics you had me saying that Durrell used a "French translation" as a "translation bridge" from Papissa Ioanna to Pope Joan. A "curiosity" that you were inclined to believe. The curiosity - a monumental imbroglio - is, that after more than half a century from its first appearance Pope Joan can still be described (Richard Pine, February 11) as one of LD's "minor mythologies" or according to the cover of the Owen Modern Classics edition "a translation and adaptation from the Greek of Emmanuel Roidis". Another book, another author. But the page title of the Derek Verschoyle edition (1954) tells a quite another story (attachment 2). Cheers Panaiotis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110218/5b42bb1f/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Owen Modern Classics.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 520591 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110218/5b42bb1f/attachment-0002.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Preprint Durrell.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 17572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110218/5b42bb1f/attachment-0003.bin From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Feb 18 10:58:28 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 10:58:28 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Pope Joan vs.Papissa Ioanna In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D5EC154.4050807@gmail.com> Dear Panaiotis, Thank-you for returning out attention to this. My message to the list, should anyone be interested, is here: https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20071029/002962.html As for the other book that pertains to Cavafy, it has now been published: McKinsey, Martin. /Hellenism and the Postcolonial Imagination: Yeats, Cavafy, Walcott/. Madison, NJ: Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 2010. I remain unable to refute or validate some of his claims. As for Durrell's relationship with Kimon Friar, I do know from their personal correspondence that Friar invited Durrell to translate one of Nikos Kazantzakis' novels and praised Durrell's Greek, though LD turned down the project. For those who wish to do a comparison, Kriton's translation is now freely avaialble online: http://www.archive.org/details/MN5003ucmf_5 I hope you're still enjoying a sun-filled retirement! Have you had luck placing your own translation of Royidis? Cheers, James On 18/02/11 9:14 AM, Panaiotis Gerontopulos wrote: > Dear James > > Thanks for answering my (empty) message. I remember with pleasure the > evening spent at the Starbucks of Korais St. discussing with Beatrice > /Pope Joan/ vs./Papissa/. It was in the autumn of 2003, I think, and you > suggested that I should come to Rhodes and discuss my findings in > Miracle Ground XIII. I did, but the presentation was a disaster: no > Power Point projector available, no discussion. What we have discussed > at the Starbucks and what I tried to say in Rhodes reading the slides > from my laptop is described in general in the abstract submitted to the > organizers of the Conference. (attachment 1) Three years later (this > List Oct. 29, 2007), closing a brief debate on Durrell?s /Homerics/ you > had me saying that Durrell used a ?French translation? as a ?translation > bridge? from /Papissa Ioanna/ to /Pope Joan/. A ?curiosity? that you > were inclined to believe. > > The curiosity ? a monumental imbroglio - is, that after more than half a > century from its first appearance /Pope Joan/ can still be described > (Richard Pine, February 11) as one of LD?s?minor mythologies? or > according to the cover of the Owen Modern Classics edition ?atranslation > and adaptation from the Greek of Emmanuel Roidis?. Another book, another > author. But the page title of the Derek Verschoyle edition (1954) tells > a quite another story (attachment 2). > > Cheers > > Panaiotis > From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri Feb 18 23:38:26 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 18:38:26 +1100 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem In-Reply-To: <430572.25828.qm@web33704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com><3170B60A-54D7-4725-A78D-5EA392ADDC96@earthlink.net><7EE3CC3E03AF47B6BDDFD1A4979F44D2@annezahlan1><7686C3FF-655D-4596-8940-C998B949E960@earthlink.net> <430572.25828.qm@web33704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14248F8CAD6045E6866F3C3DFDE5DA3A@DenisePC> Ozlem, I agree fully with you that the Bitter Lemons refer to the bitter experience of Durrell's time on Cyprus; the Greece he loved turned nasty. I don't think that we need to go into all that sweet sour stuff. Lemons have a symbolic meaning in Greece. Girls want to the gods to 'lemon them' - give them breasts. so the lemon as a voluptuous expression of sexuality and the Greek landscape which Durrell loved so much becomes bitter due to bitter experience (Durrell Carried a revolver during his last months on Cyprus). Now, jumping to 'habits half a life time dead' which drew little response, I had a thought, chardonnay inspired I must confess, along the following lines: in 1957 Durrell was 45 years old, half a lifetime before that he was 22/23 and the year 1935, about the time he arrived on the island of Corfu. There is something reflective here, sometime dating to this time, some mode of thought or being. Perhaps the 'dry grass under foot' bringing back better memories of his Corfiot life. But the word revises is interesting. the habits will not be the same again; changed by experience Larry will return to serious writing, as he attempted on Corfu, only he will much better at it this time... and indeed many would say he was much better, the Quartet and Bitter Lemons (novel) coming out that year.. Darkness, vehemence - this is Cyprus during Enosis?? contrasting Rhodes - the sunny Colossus... Cleary a collision with island reality that Durrell does not want to go into but the Greek sea, the sea eternal, washes over all, sighing softly upon the truth of our doings but not wishing to speak of them... David Hanwood Chardonnay From: Ozlem Ince Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 12:52 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Lemons are a good sequel to the "sea, sand and sun" trinity associated with the islands. Morocco has its tangerins as well...Durrell might have wanted to express his "bitter" experiences, but not in a personal way. So, he used the word bitter in conjunction with lemon, to avoid any personal statement.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 11:22:08 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Anne and Ken, It's useful to study Durrell diction which shows how he goes about creating his inner "world." Re "bitter lemons" as a variety of lemons, did LGD know colloquial eastern Arabic? Does Cyprus have this variety? Does Durrell ever refer to "sweet lemons" and enable a comparison? I only find references to "bitter lemons" in this book. Perhaps he has the bitter variety in mind. Perhaps all these questions are true, although the fact that sweet lemons have little "commercial value" would argue against the distinction. Aside from the questionable validity of my comment on "bitter," I'm suggesting that Durrell creates his own semantic field in this poem, one which relies on repetition, redundancy, and contradiction ? all of which have meaning within the context of "habits half a lifetime dead" or not. I wonder if the skin of the "sweet lemon" is dark. Perhaps someone can comment. The bitter-sour distinction is correct. I find, however, no references to "sour" in Bitter Lemons but twelve to "sweet." Old LD definitely had a sweet tooth. Whether he confused sour with bitter, as I do, is open to debate. I also find it interesting that the darkness at the end of Bitter Lemons (1957) turns to light at the beginning of Clea (1960). The novel opens thus: "The oranges were more plentiful than usual that year. They glowed in their arbours of burnished green leaf like lanterns, flickering up there among the sunny woods." So, instead of "dark globes" we have bright "lanterns" of fruit. In my mind's eye, the islands are the same, Cyprus, where Justine was written, where I see Darley residing in exile. This fits a stage in Durrell's life. Things were must sunnier for him in 1960. Bruce On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Anne R Zahlan wrote: In response to this comment and just for the record: 2. "Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. In fact there are "sweet lemons" (see below). In colloquial eastern Arabic, the following terms exist "lemon helou" sweet lemon(s) and "lemon hamoud" sour lemon(s). Sweet Lemon (C. limetta Risso)?a general name for certain non-acid lemons or limettas, favored in the Mediterranean region, In India, they are grown in the Nilgiris, Malabar and other areas. The fruits are usually insipid, occasionally subacid or acid. The seeds are white within and the tree is large, resembling that of the orange. One cultivar, called 'Dorshapo' after the plant explorers, Dorsett, Shamel and Popenoe, who introduced it from Brazil in 1914, resembles the 'Eureka' in most respects except for the lack of acidity. Another, called 'Millsweet', apparently was introduced into California from Mexico and planted in a mission garden. It was reproduced at the old University of California Experiment Station at Pomona. Neither is of any commercial value. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Redwine To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem Ken, The full title of "Loeb's Horace" is "On First Looking into Loeb's Horace" (1943), an allusion to Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" and those "realms of gold." The late Peter Porter called it Durrell's greatest. It's difficult. I've published and commented on this before, as has James, so I won't repeat. Our readings are just about diametrically opposed, which attests, I think, to the poem's greatness. Here are some notes on "Bitter Lemons," an easier poem to understand, as far as "easy" ever applies to LGD. It's another great poem and one of my favorites. 1. The poem appears at the end of the book of the same title, so it's only natural to take it as coda and summa. But just as the book leaves a lot "unsaid," particularly in biographical detail, so does the poem. 2. "Bitter Lemons" ? the title is redundant. When are lemons not bitter? I'll make the bold statement that Durrell indulges in redundancy for a reason, which is more than simple emphasis. I link redundancy to repetition, a certain obsessiveness. 3. "The dark globes of the fruit." Fruit is not specified, but the reader naturally assumes that to be lemons. But when are yellow lemons "dark," especially in the light of the "moon's cool fevers?" And when are fevers ever "cool?" Durrell likes paradox, oxymoron, contradiction. 4. The use of "dark" recalls the "dark crystal" imagery of Prospero's Cell (pp. 11, 133), The Greek Islands (p. 21), and "Letter to Seferis the Greek" (l. 11). In this regard, I'd even include The Dark Labyrinth. Dark has special meaning for LDG. He sees darkness in light, something similar to Milton's "darkness visible." 5. "Beauty, darkness, vehemence" ? what do these nouns refer to? A whole line of abstractions, the kind of thing poets are not supposed to do. Isn't "be specific" the thing usually taught in Writing Poetry 1A? A couple of years ago Michael Haag pointed out to me that similar words appeared earlier in the Epilogue to Reflections on a Marine Venus: "the dark vehement grace of E." E refers to Eve Cohen, Durrell's second wife, and Eve figures in the background of Bitter Lemons, but she goes "unsaid," unless you want to pick her out of the "dementia" of Turner's Venice at the beginning. To understand LGD fully you have to absorb just about everything he wrote. He cross-references himself. 6. Finally, note the repetition of the two concluding lines, "Keep its calms like tears unshed." The lines beautifully mimic the action of waves, "the Greek sea's curly head." Moreover, the rhymes of unsaid/unshed repeat and underscore the hidden aspects of the poem. The poem "Bitter Lemons" suggests to me that Lawrence Durrell is hiding a lot of personal pain and using poetry as a means of catharsis. Bruce On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: Apparently I don?t have ?Loeb?s Horace? in my Dutton paperback The Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have ?BITTER LEMONS,? ? and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: pain, sadness, memories, emotions. ?Better leave the rest unsaid," - he wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like tears unshed.? He doesn?t want to cause any more trouble. But still ? even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful impression. I don?t know more about it at the moment: when it was written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the subject matter, it is terribly sad. -- Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine [bredwine1968 at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:40 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] CPC and LGD Ken, The way you "inhaled" Cavafy on a rainy night was the way I first read Durrell in 1958. The two are very different poets, however. Cavafy is better at infusing his feelings into everyday objects, as in "The Afternoon Sun" and "In the Evening." In contrast, I think Durrell uses his poetry to hide his emotions, "Bitter Lemons," for example, or "Loeb's Horace." A poem I like, H. R. Stoneback's "Meditation on an Old Photograph IX: Larry and Sparrow in the Dark Garden at Sommi?res ? June 1986," in the current issue of Deus Loci, owes more to Cavafy than to Durrell, I think. That I find ironic, given the publication, the title, and the appearance of Durrell himself. Bruce On Feb 9, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: I don?t think we need be overly concerned about whether Durrell is popular at the moment. Ephemera is popular. Whole genres of human endeavor in the arts go out of popular favor - like Jazz, which was last truly popular music (in the U.S. at least) in the 1940s, before bebop became too challenging for many listeners. For Jazz fans, as well as LD fans, this should be irrelevant. There are many other topics to address on the list. What about the 1987 BBC-TV series My Family and Other Animals, with Anthony Calf portraying Larry Durrell? I would like to see this again ? I may have seen some of it on VHS at the time. What of C.P. Cavafy? There is much more to be said about his role as muse to the Quartet. I picked up the Rae Dalven translation on a rainy night in Berkeley a few years ago ? and inhaled it! I don?t think I?ve ever sat down and read a whole book by a single poet before, rapt. But I still like Durrell?s translation of ?The Afternoon Sun? in Clea the best. -- Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110219/442a1a05/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Sat Feb 19 00:19:32 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 00:19:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] Pope Joan vs.Papissa Ioanna In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484498.7869.qm@web65815.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> My reason for including 'Pope Joan' in a provisional listing of LD's 'minor mythologies' is: that LD himself, in his own discussion of 'minor mythologies', lists several genres of popular literature to which his 'translation and adaptation' of 'Papissa Ioanna' as a 'romantic biography' seems to belong. This is in no way to denigrate Roidis' original, which, as Panaiotis points out, is far more profound and has far more resonances than LD detected (and now that our attention has been brought to the earlier (1935) translation by Kriton, we know considerably more about how this came about). Thanks to Panaiotis for pointing this out. RP ________________________________ From: Panaiotis Gerontopulos To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca; Jimmy Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 7:14:03 PM Subject: [ilds] Pope Joan vs.Papissa Ioanna Dear James ??? Thanks for answering my (empty) message. I remember with pleasure the evening spent at the Starbucks of Korais St. discussing with Beatrice Pope Joan vs.Papissa. It was in the autumn of 2003, I think, and you suggested that I should come to Rhodes and discuss my findings in Miracle Ground XIII. I did, but the presentation was a??disaster: no Power Point projector available, no discussion. ?What we have discussed at the Starbucks and ?what I tried to say in Rhodes reading the slides from?my laptop is described?in general in the abstract submitted ?to the organizers of the Conference. (attachment 1) Three years later (this List Oct. 29, 2007), closing a?brief debate on Durrell?s Homerics??you had me saying that Durrell used a ?French translation? as a ?translation bridge? from Papissa Ioanna to Pope Joan. A ?curiosity??that you were inclined to believe.? ?? The curiosity ? a?monumental?imbroglio - is, that after?more than half a century from its first appearance Pope Joan can still be described (Richard Pine, February 11) as one of LD?s? ?minor mythologies? or according to the cover?of the Owen Modern Classics edition ?a? translation and adaptation from the Greek of Emmanuel Roidis?. Another book, another author. But the page title of the Derek Verschoyle edition (1954) ?tells a quite another story (attachment 2).? Cheers Panaiotis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110219/723a5f68/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 14:13:17 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:13:17 -0800 Subject: [ilds] BITTER LEMONS the poem In-Reply-To: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D34EA4A@mail2.directed.com> Message-ID: <4D60407D.2090502@gmail.com> "unshed" and "unsaid" seem to suggest something akin to a diplomat's role... What would have been the virtues of Durrell shedding or saying his tears and feelings about Cyrpus? Hence, he's neither condoning nor condemning, which means being lost to both. Good attention, Ken. I see much of Durrell's poetry as explicitly "unsaid." For /Tree of Idleness/, I suspect the diplomatic restrictions played a significant role -- prior to this, the unsaid strikes me as already being present for aesthetic reasons. Cheers, James On 15/02/11 10:53 PM, Ken Gammage wrote: > Apparently I don?t have ?Loeb?s Horace? in my Dutton paperback The > Poetry of Lawrence Durrell (1962). However, I do have ?BITTER LEMONS,? ? > and yes, I agree that this poem is about hiding or suppressing feelings: > pain, sadness, memories, emotions. ?Better leave the rest unsaid," - he > wants to be understated, and yes he is bitter. "Keep its calms like > tears unshed.? He doesn?t want to cause any more trouble. But still ? > even understated, even hiding something: the poem leaves a powerful > impression. I don?t know more about it at the moment: when it was > written in relation to the book. But knowing what we know about the > subject matter, it is terribly sad. > > -- Ken