[ilds] The Egyptian Revolution

Bruce Redwine bredwine1968 at earthlink.net
Sun Jan 30 16:12:09 PST 2011


I agree.  A revolution in Egypt may be good for the bulk of the Egyptian people, but I do not think it augers well for cosmopolitanism — just the opposite.  I expect the country will quickly become more Islamist.  As has been pointed out, revolutions are inherently unstable.  They may begin proclaiming democratic ideals, but they quickly turn totalitarian — the famous examples being the French and Russian.  But who knows?  I doubt that Durrell would have been optimistic — he'd seen too much.


Bruce



On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Lee Sternthal wrote:

> will Alexandria become more secular again, never to return to Durrell's Cosmpopolitan city, but perhaps a step back in that direction?  that would be a dream.  i'm afraid not, though.  i'm afraid of who will fill the ensuing power vacuum should the present regime fall.  i imagine Durrell would have questions (and fears) about this as well.
> 
> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Peters, John U <john.u.peters at csun.edu> wrote:
> The unfolding revolution in Egypt raises any number of questions,  not least of which is this:  What would L.D. make of it all?  Or would he even try?  Any thoughts?  JP
> ________________________________________
> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca]
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:00 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. The Dark Labyrinth (Bruce Redwine)
>   2. Revolt of Aphrodite (James Gifford)
>   3. OMG 17 - London (James Gifford)
>   4. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Denise Tart & David Green)
>   5. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford)
>   6. Names (Bruce Redwine)
>   7. Re: Names (James Gifford)
>   8. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine)
>   9. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Anne R Zahlan)
>  10. online bibliography (James Gifford)
>  11. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine)
>  12. Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford)
>  13. MacNiven Bio (William Apt)
>  14. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com)
>  15. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine)
>  16. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford)
>  17. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green)
>  18. Re: MacNiven Bio (James Gifford)
>  19. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green)
>  20. the longer response to Bruce (James Gifford)
>  21. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford)
>  22. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine)
>  23. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine)
>  24. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine)
>  25. Re: Names (Richard Pine)
>  26. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Richard Pine)
>  27. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine)
>  28. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine)
>  29. the purse (James Gifford)
>  30. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com)
>  31. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford)
>  32. Re: the purse (Bruce Redwine)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:55:05 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <DE20C94A-2DC7-4B15-98F6-95508B01C7E3 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Meta,
> 
> Thanks for picking up on this important topic/novel.  Re Durrell's choice of personal names in The Dark Labyrinth, the first consideration is that he himself called the novel an "extended morality" (Durrell-Miller Letters, 1962, 1963, p. 201), i.e., an allegory.  And allegories, as you know, personify ideas.  The big examples of that form, in English, are Spenser's Faerie Queene and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress.  These are both Renaissance works, early and late, so once again we have Durrell harkening back to the great period of English lit.  In this regard, the novel's most interesting character, Campion, is also the name of a Renaissance medical doctor and poet, Thomas Campion (1567-1620).  Durrell's usage of names fits the allegorical tradition.  He also does this, however, elsewhere in his fiction, and I'd venture to say that the names of Durrell's characters most always mean something special  They are rarely, if ever, arbitrary.  It's useful to recall that Durrell himse!
>  lf considered going into the medical profession and instead became a poet.  Thus, Campion is a good alter ego for the author himself.
> 
> I agree that the "Roof of the World" chapter in The Dark Labyrinth is one of the best Durrell ever wrote.  He pulls it off, writing about a Utopian place, and succeeds where James Hilton in Lost Horizon does not succeed in describing his Shangri-La.  Hilton's Utopia is mawkish, Durrell's is not.  Of course, Durrell's mountaintop realm is very Romantic, but the irony is Romantic too, the sad self-consciousness that forces the narrator to conclude, "The roof of the world did not really exist, except in their own imaginations."  That statement echoes again and again throughout Durrell's oeuvre.  It reminds me that repetitive "Boum" in Forster's Marabar caves.
> 
> Much remains to be talked about in this extraordinary novel.  On a personal note, when I first read it in 1962, I recall that when Fearmax meets his fate in the labyrinth, at the end of "In the Darkness," I was terrified.  Durrell can tell a good horror story.  Durrell's terror, however, later turns into a kind of Romantic Irony.
> 
> Best wishes on your translation into Slovenian.
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:58 AM, Meta Cerar wrote:
> 
> > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently.
> >
> > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth  names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book.
> >
> > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading.
> >
> > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment.
> >
> > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth,
> >
> > Meta Cerar,
> > Slovenia
> >
> > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM
> > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >
> > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction.  My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters:   Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc.  People are their names.  Doesn't Fearmax die of fright?
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove
> >>
> >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the  souther classical Parthenon.
> >>
> >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:10:33 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] Revolt of Aphrodite
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D4322B9.4040002 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> I agree that /Revolt/ is much overlooked, and I see it as remarkably
> contemporary today.  As for scoffing at Durrell's "middlebrow" works,
> there's been a steady stream of critical work done -- I don't think any
> of the academics scoff.  Instead, I think they're often just more
> difficult to get (they've been in & out of print and often appeared
> first through small presses rather than Faber), and they haven't had the
> same spotlight as his major books.
> 
> As for filthy lucre, I could see that for /White Eagles/ (though still
> an interesting work), but /Cefalu/ first appeared through the Poetry
> London imprint, which certainly wouldn't have earned Durrell a great
> deal, especially with Tambimuttu at the helm...
> 
> Jan Morris had high praise for /Sicilian Carousel/ as well:
> 
> Morris, Jan. "Durrell - on a Tourist Bus?" /Encounter/ 49.3 (September
> 1977): 77-79.
> 
> The discussion of art in /Cefalu/ is fascinating as well, at least as a
> revelation of Durrell's interests and readings.
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> On 27/01/11 10:47 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> > Reading /Aphrodite's Revolt,/ or periphrasis of same, is a good idea.
> > Long overdue, for me, anyway. Think I'll take Grove up on this. Ken's
> > comment about the Greek island books (which I'd expand to include Sicily
> > and the Tyrrhenian Sea) bears serious consideration. David Green
> > deserves full credit for turning our eyes to the islands ("no tongue:
> > all eyes: be silent"). Undoubtedly, Durrell's "potboilers" were done for
> > "filthy lucre," but I find them most interesting and provocative.
> > Durrell, for all his protean productivity, was probably one of Isaiah
> > Berlin's "hedgehogs," more of a possessed Dostoevsky than a foxy
> > Tolstoy. That's to say, he was a man of just a few obsessions (and
> > demons), and these got continually reworked and replayed throughout his
> > /oeuvre/. So, I find it instructive to uncover these themes and tropes
> > in his self-acknowledged "minor" works. E.g., /The Dark Labyrinth, White
> > Eagles over Serbia,/ and /Sicilian Carousel./ I sense these are often
> > scoffed at, but I think this view mistaken ? highbrow priggishness. To
> > emphasize what I said before, authors don't always know what they doing,
> > and whether Durrell knew it or not, his potboilers seem to me as
> > revealing (and probably at least as enjoyable) as his "serious" work
> > intended "for all time."
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com
> > <mailto:gkoger at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I've enjoyed the responses to David's post, but in my case my silence
> >> simply means that I'm busy and haven't had much to say. There are a
> >> couple of items about Norman Douglas and Patrick Leigh Fermor that
> >> I'll pass on as soon as I can put a few coherent paragraphs together,
> >> but in the meantime I'll second Ken's positive comment about The Greek
> >> Islands. And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy!
> >> They're the most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and
> >> deserve more attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a
> >> chapter-by-chapter analysis of them, but perhaps someone else could
> >> this summer. I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc
> >> describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove
> >>
> >>
> >>     -----Original Message-----
> >>     From: Ken Gammage
> >>     Sent: Jan 25, 2011 5:29 PM
> >>     To: Denise Tart & David Green, "ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >>     <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>"
> >>     Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >>
> >>     Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the
> >>     listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports
> >>     your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that
> >>     resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from
> >>     Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for
> >>     the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often
> >>     beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often
> >>     responding directly and privately to the poster without
> >>     necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes
> >>     contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find
> >>     this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.)
> >>     You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the
> >>     artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of
> >>     disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like
> >>     Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the
> >>     last page of my Italy website:www.travelogorrhea.com
> >>     <http://www.travelogorrhea.com>
> >>     Viva Durrell!
> >>     Kennedy Gammage
> >>     ken.gammage at directed.com <mailto:ken.gammage at directed.com>
> >>     *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca
> >>     <mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca>[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On
> >>     Behalf Of*Denise Tart & David Green
> >>     *Sent:*Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM
> >>     *To:*Durrel;DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU
> >>     <mailto:DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU>
> >>     *Subject:*[ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >>
> >>     It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other
> >>     contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in
> >>     Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to
> >>     ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of
> >>     Durrell and his works?
> >>
> >>     There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious
> >>     discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me
> >>     and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared
> >>     without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far
> >>     between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to
> >>     academic journals.
> >>     There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony
> >>     Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that
> >>     she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship.
> >>     Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the
> >>     only member to publicly respond.
> >>     Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no
> >>     longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy
> >>     about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an
> >>     aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in
> >>     endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the
> >>     cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer
> >>     to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in
> >>     their own right?
> >>     Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who
> >>     used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a
> >>     terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at
> >>     the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and
> >>     works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc?
> >>     Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote,
> >>     "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!"
> >>     Yours, somewhat puzzled,
> >>     David Green
> >>     16 William Street
> >>     Marrickville NSW 2204
> >>     Australia
> >>
> >>     This email may contain confidential and/or privileged
> >>     information. It is intended only for the person or persons to
> >>     whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or
> >>     distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
> >>     recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or
> >>     telephone and destroy all copies of the original message.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ILDS at lists.uvic.ca>
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:35:52 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] OMG 17 - London
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D4328A8.8040003 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> I should add, I typed in "15" by accident, thinking back to the Paris
> conference.  (head hung in shame).  London will be the 17th On Miracle
> Ground, offering us a lucky prime number (and a Fermat Prime at that!).
> 
> Please create a substantial buzz in anticipation of the formal
> announcements!
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:21:09 +1100
> From: "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2 at DenisePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Meta,
> 
> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus.
> 
> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters
> 
> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord.
> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type
> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear)
> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences)
> 
> etc etc
> 
> we recall in 18th century  English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them.
> 
> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive???
> 
> David Green
> Terra Australis Incognito
> 
> 
> From: Meta Cerar
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> 
> 
> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth  names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian - to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) - and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book.
> 
> 
> 
> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth,
> 
> 
> 
> Meta Cerar,
> 
> Slovenia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM
> To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> 
> 
> 
> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction.  My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters:   Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc.  People are their names.  Doesn't Fearmax die of fright?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> 
>  I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove
> 
>  It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the  souther classical Parthenon.
> 
> 
> 
>  btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it.
> 
> 
> 
>  David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  ILDS mailing list
>  ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>  https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:21:01 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D43333D.9070101 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote:
> > And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the
> > most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more
> > attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis
> > of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer.
> 
> Do I sense another reading group coming on?  I'd enjoy that, and Tunc
> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine.  Great suggestion, Grove!
> Let's plan for it this summer.
> 
> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political
> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s
> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked.
> 
> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable
> ending to /Nunquam/...  I can't help but think of Durrell's publications
> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New
> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an
> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made.  Add to
> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law,
> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state):
> 
> "which satisfied the law."
> 
> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much.
>  Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command,
> from myself to myself"
> 
> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no
> contractual obligations."
> 
> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even
> though Rome burns."
> 
> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at
> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are
> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I
> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that
> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those
> terms.  Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/,
> but there's something kindred.  The state (Rome) falls, contracts end,
> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead
> on their word and sociability.
> 
> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell:
> 
> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve;
> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing."
> 
> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> destruction of coercion and obligation).  However, I can't help but take
> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> edition?  I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> 
> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> 
> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so
> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s
> face."
> 
> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden
> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this
> in my head at the moment.  Still, it seems like some anti-state or
> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open
> poetics) are present here.
> 
> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind
> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/...  What say y'all?
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:20:13 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [ilds] Names
> To: Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au>,
>        ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Pursewarden.  Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum.  Or maybe I just have a dirty mind.  Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way.  The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse.  Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins.
> 
> Mountolive.  New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane?  Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with.  This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent.  Still, a good name.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> 
> > Meta,
> >
> > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus.
> >
> > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters
> >
> > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord.
> > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type
> > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear)
> > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences)
> >
> > etc etc
> >
> > we recall in 18th century  English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them.
> >
> > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive???
> >
> > David Green
> > Terra Australis Incognito
> >
> > From: Meta Cerar
> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM
> > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >
> > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently.
> >
> > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth  names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book.
> >
> > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading.
> >
> > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment.
> >
> > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth,
> >
> > Meta Cerar,
> > Slovenia
> >
> > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM
> > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >
> > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction.  My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters:   Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc.  People are their names.  Doesn't Fearmax die of fright?
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove
> >>
> >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the  souther classical Parthenon.
> >>
> >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/95341739/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:26:53 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Names
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D43349D.7020301 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when
> talking about Wilde and Shakespeare.  It's not in his UNESCO talks, but
> I can't recall where...
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> > *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that
> > Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just
> > have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED,
> > however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's
> > "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd
> > mind, probably refers to more than coins.
> >
> > *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's
> > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this
> > applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the
> > ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be
> > Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> >
> >> Meta,
> >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have
> >> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the
> >> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes
> >> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes
> >> through in the Marine Venus.
> >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters
> >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord.
> >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist
> >> rebel type
> >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear)
> >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain
> >> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences)
> >> etc etc
> >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a
> >> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west
> >> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to
> >> them.
> >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example
> >> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive???
> >> David Green
> >> Terra Australis Incognito
> >>
> >> *From:*Meta Cerar <mailto:meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si>
> >> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM
> >> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >>
> >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth,
> >> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends
> >> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most
> >> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list
> >> members wrote recently.
> >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or
> >> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently
> >> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the
> >> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to
> >> include this symbolism into the preface of the book.
> >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on
> >> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D.
> >> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci
> >> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar
> >> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading.
> >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a
> >> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the
> >> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and
> >> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly
> >> neglected to my great disappointment.
> >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth,
> >> Meta Cerar,
> >> Slovenia
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca
> >> <mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca>[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On
> >> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine
> >> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM
> >> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >> <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in
> >> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD
> >> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters:
> >> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names.
> >> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright?
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green"
> >> <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's
> >>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove
> >>>
> >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of
> >>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern
> >>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon.
> >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them
> >>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there
> >>> something 18th century about it.
> >>> David
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:33:50 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Names
> To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <19F230A3-2799-4CC4-B1FA-A16EBB742E4B at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Thanks.  That confirms the linkage.  It's amazing how saturated Durrell was in Renaissance English.  He probably dreamed in blank verse.
> 
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:26 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bruce,
> >
> > Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when
> > talking about Wilde and Shakespeare.  It's not in his UNESCO talks, but
> > I can't recall where...
> >
> > Best,
> > James
> >
> > On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> >> *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that
> >> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just
> >> have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED,
> >> however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's
> >> "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd
> >> mind, probably refers to more than coins.
> >>
> >> *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's
> >> Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this
> >> applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the
> >> ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be
> >> Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> >>
> >>> Meta,
> >>> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have
> >>> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the
> >>> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes
> >>> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes
> >>> through in the Marine Venus.
> >>> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters
> >>> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord.
> >>> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist
> >>> rebel type
> >>> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear)
> >>> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain
> >>> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences)
> >>> etc etc
> >>> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a
> >>> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west
> >>> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to
> >>> them.
> >>> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example
> >>> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive???
> >>> David Green
> >>> Terra Australis Incognito
> >>>
> >>> *From:*Meta Cerar <mailto:meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si>
> >>> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM
> >>> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >>>
> >>> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth,
> >>> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends
> >>> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most
> >>> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list
> >>> members wrote recently.
> >>> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or
> >>> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently
> >>> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the
> >>> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to
> >>> include this symbolism into the preface of the book.
> >>> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on
> >>> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D.
> >>> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci
> >>> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar
> >>> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading.
> >>> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a
> >>> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the
> >>> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and
> >>> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly
> >>> neglected to my great disappointment.
> >>> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth,
> >>> Meta Cerar,
> >>> Slovenia
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca
> >>> <mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca>[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On
> >>> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine
> >>> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM
> >>> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >>> <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >>> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in
> >>> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD
> >>> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters:
> >>> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names.
> >>> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright?
> >>> Bruce
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green"
> >>> <dtart at bigpond.net.au <mailto:dtart at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's
> >>>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove
> >>>>
> >>>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of
> >>>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern
> >>>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon.
> >>>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them
> >>>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there
> >>>> something 18th century about it.
> >>>> David
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:55:10 -0500
> From: "Anne R Zahlan" <zahlan at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: <gifford at fdu.edu>, <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <5A956F8BADFF4A439E45C75187D5EB94 at annezahlan1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
> 
> Hi Jamie:
> 
> Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site
> etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and
> careful grad student.
> 
> (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.)
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well.
> 
> Love,
> 
> Anne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Gifford" <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> 
> 
> > Hello all,
> >
> > For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated
> > since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative:
> >
> > http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm
> >
> > Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon.  I have hundred of
> > items to add to it still...
> >
> > Best,
> > James
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:35:44 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] online bibliography
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D4344C0.2030000 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Anne,
> 
> Good to hear from you!
> 
> For everyone on the list, please consider this an open call for help
> with the online bibliography.  James Clawson and Grove Koger have
> volunteered (at the last conference) to get involved, but I do suspect
> that maintaining an online bibliography will necessitate a level of
> technical expertise and free time that the three of us will find
> challenging...  Grove is doing admirable work keeping the print
> bibliography going in /Deus Loci/ as the formal record, but there's a
> lot of secondary criticism out there still, especially in other languages.
> 
> I first launched the online bibliography as a way of making such work
> easily available in a searchable format.  That creative commons idea
> would still be my preference -- what say you all?  Proprietary systems
> are easy to transfer to (RefWorks), but then they're proprietary and
> hard to open up publicly.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with RefShare?
> 
> Alternatively, the bibliography is already available (in a rough form)
> in BibTex, which is easy to update and is compatible with almost any
> citation management software, including many OpenSource and free
> applications.
> 
> As I noted in the first launch, "The Koger-MacNiven Bibliography has
> been particularly useful, and Susan MacNiven's encouragement has been
> greatly appreciated. Other major bibliographers include Cecil L. Peaden,
> Susan Vander Closter, James Brigham, and Alan G. Thomas."  Those are all
> still excellent resources.
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> On 28/01/11 1:55 PM, Anne R Zahlan wrote:
> > Hi Jamie:
> >
> > Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site
> > etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and
> > careful grad student.
> >
> > (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.)
> >
> > Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well.
> >
> > Love,
> >
> > Anne
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Gifford"<james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> > To:<ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >
> >
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated
> >> since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative:
> >>
> >> http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm
> >>
> >> Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon.  I have hundred of
> >> items to add to it still...
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> James
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:38:19 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> James,
> 
> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of EB, I'll check it for you.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> 
> > On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote:
> >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the
> >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more
> >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis
> >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer.
> >
> > Do I sense another reading group coming on?  I'd enjoy that, and Tunc
> > and Nunquam have been favourites of mine.  Great suggestion, Grove!
> > Let's plan for it this summer.
> >
> > I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political
> > works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s
> > and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked.
> >
> > Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable
> > ending to /Nunquam/...  I can't help but think of Durrell's publications
> > in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New
> > Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an
> > antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made.  Add to
> > that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law,
> > authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state):
> >
> > "which satisfied the law."
> >
> > "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much.
> >  Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command,
> > from myself to myself"
> >
> > "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no
> > contractual obligations."
> >
> > "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even
> > though Rome burns."
> >
> > I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at
> > the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are
> > explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I
> > can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that
> > asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those
> > terms.  Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/,
> > but there's something kindred.  The state (Rome) falls, contracts end,
> > law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead
> > on their word and sociability.
> >
> > The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell:
> >
> > "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve;
> > or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing."
> >
> > The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> > clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> > destruction of coercion and obligation).  However, I can't help but take
> > the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> > Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> > Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> > edition?  I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> >
> > "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> > [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> > government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> > of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> > sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> > that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> > egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> > another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> > to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> > and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> > police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> > free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> >
> > I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so
> > that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s
> > face."
> >
> > I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden
> > Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this
> > in my head at the moment.  Still, it seems like some anti-state or
> > antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open
> > poetics) are present here.
> >
> > At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind
> > lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/...  What say y'all?
> >
> > Best,
> > James
> >
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:50:12 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D434824.1090100 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905
> (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man
> Under Socialism").
> 
> As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was
> largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made
> cuts to existing entries.  If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!  I
> can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the
> comparison between past editions.
> 
> I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too.
> 
> Thanks!
> James
> 
> On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> > James,
> >
> > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> >
> >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com
> >> <mailto:gkoger at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the
> >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more
> >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis
> >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer.
> >>
> >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc
> >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove!
> >> Let's plan for it this summer.
> >>
> >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political
> >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s
> >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked.
> >>
> >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable
> >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications
> >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New
> >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an
> >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to
> >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law,
> >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state):
> >>
> >> "which satisfied the law."
> >>
> >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much.
> >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command,
> >> from myself to myself"
> >>
> >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no
> >> contractual obligations."
> >>
> >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even
> >> though Rome burns."
> >>
> >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at
> >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are
> >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I
> >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that
> >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those
> >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/,
> >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end,
> >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead
> >> on their word and sociability.
> >>
> >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell:
> >>
> >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve;
> >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing."
> >>
> >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take
> >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> >>
> >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> >>
> >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so
> >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s
> >> face."
> >>
> >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden
> >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this
> >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or
> >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open
> >> poetics) are present here.
> >>
> >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind
> >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> James
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:04:17 -0800
> From: William Apt <billyapt at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTimAi-wXCg3KP9KCR5PAU2eNPAHkDkuQ8iHz8_ic at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Dear all:
> 
> I thought the book outstanding.  How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and
> synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative
> is remarkable.  Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations
> well:  it is a most tactful book.
> 
> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it
> was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse
> to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any
> one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it
> is worthwhile?
> 
> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic.  I have so many questions about why he
> was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say
> that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery.
> 
> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof.
> Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday.
> 
> --
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1,
> Ste 205
> Austin TX 78746
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:10:26 -0500 (EST)
> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
>        <28880300.1296256226985.JavaMail.root at elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:26:15 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th
> To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <19707863-1F2E-4B09-9EB6-EBF117CEF73B at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> James,
> 
> Yes, the EB 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and "Cosmos."  Hopes this helps.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bruce,
> >
> > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905
> > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man
> > Under Socialism").
> >
> > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was
> > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made
> > cuts to existing entries.  If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!  I
> > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the
> > comparison between past editions.
> >
> > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > James
> >
> > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> >> James,
> >>
> >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take
> >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> >>>
> >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/1e2ac9a9/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:42:39 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D43546F.7070904 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Alas, *I* don't have the 14th edition, just access to the 11th...
> 
> That said, a quick check in Google Books has Stephen Lukes remarking on
> Kropotkin's entry on Anarchism and Mutual Aid with a quotation that
> matches verbatim the 11th edition, but Lukes' citation is very clearly
> to the 1929-30 vol. 1 14th edition 9p. 873).  I think that solves the
> mystery.  Durrell's personal copy of the 14th edition would have carried
> at least a version of Kropotkin's 1905 entry for the 11th edition.  I
> admire Lukes' work, so I'll trust it until I can check a 14h edition
> copy in the stacks.
> 
> But, would that Zeno reference have stuck, if Durrell had even read it,
> more than 20 years later?  Dunno, but it does open a window of possibility.
> 
> Thanks for the help!  And sorry to bore the rest of y'all -- any takers
> on the /Revolt/ suggestions?
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> On 28/01/11 3:26 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> > James,
> >
> > Yes, the /EB/ 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you
> > quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and
> > "Cosmos." Hopes this helps.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Bruce,
> >>
> >> Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905
> >> (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man
> >> Under Socialism").
> >>
> >> As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was
> >> largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made
> >> cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I
> >> can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the
> >> comparison between past editions.
> >>
> >> I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> James
> >>
> >> On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> >>> James,
> >>>
> >>> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bruce
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> >>>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> >>>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take
> >>>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> >>>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> >>>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> >>>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> >>>>
> >>>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> >>>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> >>>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> >>>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> >>>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> >>>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> >>>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> >>>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> >>>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> >>>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> >>>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> >>>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:44:40 +1100
> From: "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB at DenisePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> William,
> 
> I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary??
> 
> David Green
> 
> 
> From: William Apt
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> 
> 
> Dear all:
> 
> I thought the book outstanding.  How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable.  Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well:  it is a most tactful book.
> 
> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile?
> 
> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic.  I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery.
> 
> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday.
> 
> --
> WILLIAM APT
> Attorney at Law
> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1,
> Ste 205
> Austin TX 78746
> 512/708-8300
> 512/708-8011 FAX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/ed6e4af7/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:01:26 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D4358D6.1090605 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Michael Haag is writing the next biography.  As for Bowker and MacNiven,
> it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first
> and second editions.  Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more
> speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that
> MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it
> took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach.
> 
> Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not
> without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work.
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> > William,
> > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to
> > you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does
> > speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who
> > as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as
> > his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence
> > particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness
> > of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to
> > him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is
> > currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary??
> > David Green
> >
> > *From:* William Apt <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>
> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
> > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> > *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> >
> > Dear all:
> > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather
> > and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent
> > narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary
> > obligations well: it is a most tactful book.
> > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because
> > it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had
> > recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my
> > taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's
> > book, and whether it is worthwhile?
> > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why
> > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except
> > to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery.
> > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof.
> > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday.
> >
> > --
> > WILLIAM APT
> > Attorney at Law
> > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1,
> > Ste 205
> > Austin TX 78746
> > 512/708-8300
> > 512/708-8011 FAX
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:35:04 +1100
> From: "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> To: <gifford at fdu.edu>, <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <C2FA37827A8249D89246CCD5E44461E7 at DenisePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
> 
> James,
> 
> I am noting that I have the revised edition, much thumbed. Yes, Bowker is a
> sharp writer but writing a biography of any complex 'genius' would be hard
> task as I am sure Michael Haag has discovered, especially if you want to go
> beyond a chronicle into a analysis of motive, muse, the meaning of self in
> relation to the world. Things are bound to slip. That said I enjoy
> biographies as much or more sometimes than the subjects own writings.
> 
> Have been waiting for old Haag's biog for a while - in fact I'm getting that
> 'when's it going to be wine o'clock feeling if'n you take my meaning?
> 
> David Whitewine
> 
> btw, am hoping to get sorted a decent look at Durrell's islomania; form to
> be determined.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "James Gifford" <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:01 AM
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> 
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Michael Haag is writing the next biography.  As for Bowker and MacNiven,
> > it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first
> > and second editions.  Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more
> > speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that
> > MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it
> > took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach.
> >
> > Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not
> > without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work.
> >
> > Best,
> > James
> >
> > On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> >> William,
> >> I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to
> >> you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does
> >> speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who
> >> as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as
> >> his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence
> >> particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness
> >> of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to
> >> him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is
> >> currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary??
> >> David Green
> >>
> >> *From:* William Apt <mailto:billyapt at gmail.com>
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
> >> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca <mailto:ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> >> *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> >>
> >> Dear all:
> >> I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather
> >> and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent
> >> narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary
> >> obligations well: it is a most tactful book.
> >> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because
> >> it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had
> >> recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my
> >> taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's
> >> book, and whether it is worthwhile?
> >> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why
> >> he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except
> >> to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery.
> >> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof.
> >> Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday.
> >>
> >> --
> >> WILLIAM APT
> >> Attorney at Law
> >> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1,
> >> Ste 205
> >> Austin TX 78746
> >> 512/708-8300
> >> 512/708-8011 FAX
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ILDS mailing list
> >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:53:28 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D436508.1030104 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response...  To let
> others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered
> ones.
> 
> >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about
> >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real
> >> issue.
> >
> > 1. I do.
> >
> >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the
> >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between.
> >
> > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what
> > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do
> > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how
> > energetically expressed.
> 
> Perhaps I should clarify what I mean.  I don't think "lay" vs "academic"
> are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I
> consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than
> inextricable differences.
> 
> I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my
> moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from
> being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a
> public forum.  In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree!
> 
> >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine...
> >
> > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence
> > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its
> > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the
> > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos.
> 
> I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an
> occasion...  I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps
> should have noted to joke overtly.  ;)
> 
> >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and
> >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an
> >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of
> >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too.
> >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best.
> >
> > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators
> > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the
> > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and
> > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those
> > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And
> > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary
> > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then
> > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a
> > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices.
> 
> I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and
> keeping discussion growing...  As a moderator, that's always going to be
> a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to
> consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented
> open discourse.
> 
> It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling
> emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same
> token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the
> cord to the internet once he struck gold.  I've done that on a few
> occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my
> hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...).
> 
> The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy
> asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not
> fitting in.  I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome
> such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them.
> 
> >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence
> >>> Durrell's life and work.
> >>
> >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point,
> >
> > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4.
> 
> I think I see what you mean.  I don't agree, but I understand.  I'm
> certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to
> light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to
> some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements
> there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them.
> 
> That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them.
> Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the
> points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives
> on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works.  My hunch is that
> we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism.  As for
> incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads
> to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates.
> 
> An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision.
> Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his
> personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as
> well.  We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal
> with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has
> accused me of being too easy...  I simply want to note that reasonable
> disagreement is possible on that.  As for incest, I think accusations
> against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock
> journalism.  Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go.
> 
> >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the
> >> opposite), and I
> >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms.
> >
> > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators
> > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and
> > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly.
> 
> Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the
> road quite a bit at present.  I'll do my best, such as it is...
> 
> >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I
> >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries.
> >
> > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic
> > queries made public? I'd like to see them.
> 
> I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources,
> etc...  I make a point of putting things on the list that have any
> chance of being of public interest.
> 
> > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here.
> 
> Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing...  Charles, though, is the Boxer to our
> animal farm.  I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule.
> 
> > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled
> > hook & bait: [that's me]
> >
> >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few
> >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce]
> >
> > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I
> > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in
> > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or
> > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too...
> >
> > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de
> > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time
> > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid
> > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in
> > considerable detail.
> 
> I'll agree with this.  Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that
> distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly
> living in his mind rather than the world outside.  Paul de Man had
> rather darker things to cover up though...  I think that's where I
> hesitate.  Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the
> imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic,
> which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case.  He certainly was not
> saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's
> Nazi ties would suggest.
> 
> Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch.
>  Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of
> skeletons in the closet as de Man.  Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but
> not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command.
> 
> > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the
> > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats'
> > Negative Capability?
> >
> > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities.  They're well known.
> What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always
> going to be fraught with perils.  We can't have that brilliant
> complexity *and* and easy path back to the author...  Much like Keats'
> masks.
> 
> > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's
> > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for
> > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're
> > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision...
> >
> > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision."
> 
> Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out
> to find rather than what's really there...  My dissertation looked at
> instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described
> events in both authors' works that don't actually exist.  Sometimes the
> gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where
> the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area
> (trust me, it's hard!  Hubris away!).  When I think I've finally
> achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being
> myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are
> invariably present.  My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties...
> 
> > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second guess
> > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously
> > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution.
> >
> > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing
> > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the
> > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions,
> > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most
> > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not
> > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank
> > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980).
> 
> Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree.  Much of it is a
> matter of polemics and tendencies.  When I see a cheque, I don't imagine
> the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!)
> suggests.  By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence
> Durrell.  I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical
> matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together,
> contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked
> interpretive possibility.  Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive
> matters to the reader rather than the writer.  The writer sold me the
> book, and now I'll do with it just as I please...  ;)
> 
> But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to
> keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference.
> 
> > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is
> > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend?
> >
> > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic.
> > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then
> > "expiate" is exactly the right word.
> 
> Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end...  Hence
> "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;)
> 
> You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you
> mean by expiate.  Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and
> Mother Theresa?  I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't
> think they were on the same order as de Man.  Does that make sense?
> Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will
> lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the
> Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide
> some skeletons as well...
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:40:12 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D436FFC.1080302 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> As always, Ilyas, you have a keen eye and generous description of the
> things it spies.
> 
> All apologies for my provincially dull skirmishes with Bruce, but at
> least we're keeping our blades dull as well.  Hopefully this recent jump
> in activity on the list will return us to the "vibrant balance of the
> scholarly, academic, casual and amateur enthusiast."
> 
> As for Charles,
> 
> > Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive?
> > Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke
> > booke
> 
> I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts.  I think I'll
> have to try his cell...
> 
> Best,
> James
> 
> On 26/01/11 2:14 AM, Ilyas Khan wrote:
> > Ken,
> >
> > You make the key point in my view. I am active (and find tremendously
> > rewarding) my participation as ?poster? and ?lurker? on a number of
> > other such venues, and the key difference is that despite much hand
> > wringing on this listserv, there is an incredible tendency towards
> > clique-ishness, made all the more provincially dull by the continuation
> > of long standing personal skirmishes that the vast majority of us do not
> > understand or appreciate.
> >
> > My own attitude has been, therefore, to focus on two things. Firstly, my
> > own love of LD means that I usually find nuggets here, but I also have
> > drifted towards a personal reply instead of a reply to the forum as a
> > whole. Secondly, when the usual small clique start squabbling or cannot
> > see the impact of their language on others, I simply ignore them and
> > enjoy the underlying conversation from which I have learnt so much. At
> > times people such as James and Charles have tried to bring the
> > conversation back to the ?relevant?, but even they, I think, sometimes
> > tire of the same old repetition.
> >
> > There is a message in reply to David?s post that also raises the issue
> > of how some academics have been teased off this listserv from posting
> > stuff that is too academic. I agree that if other venues can maintain a
> > vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur
> > enthusiast, then so can we.
> >
> > On that basis therefore, David, I for one will try to become more
> > active. I value this little part of my life, and unless we all step upto
> > the plate, we have only ourselves to blame. Having made my points above,
> > I am hoping I can become one of the non-scholarly or non-academic
> > participants who has an opinion and a constructive point of view.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 26/01/2011 00:29, "Ken Gammage" <Ken.Gammage at directed.com> wrote:
> >
> >     Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the
> >     listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports your
> >     argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in
> >     detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and
> >     James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several
> >     years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many
> >     thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and
> >     privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to
> >     publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The
> >     Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated
> >     strictly by lucre.)
> >     You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery
> >     cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my
> >     poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please
> >     see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy
> >     website: www.travelogorrhea.com <http://www.travelogorrhea.com>
> >
> >     Viva Durrell!
> >
> >     Kennedy Gammage
> >     ken.gammage at directed.com
> >
> >
> >
> >     *From:* ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca
> >     [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] *On Behalf Of *Denise Tart &
> >     David Green
> >     *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM
> >     *To:* Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU
> >     *Subject:* [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >
> >
> >     It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other
> >     contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in
> >     Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to
> >     ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of
> >     Durrell and his works?
> >     There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious
> >     discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and
> >     some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared
> >     without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far
> >     between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to
> >     academic journals.
> >
> >     There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony
> >     Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she
> >     can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless
> >     some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only
> >     member to publicly respond.
> >
> >     Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no
> >     longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy
> >     about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an
> >     aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in
> >     endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the
> >     cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to
> >     items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own
> >     right?
> >
> >     Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who
> >     used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal
> >     illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment
> >     to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the
> >     Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc?
> >
> >     Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote,
> >     "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!"
> >
> >     Yours, somewhat puzzled,
> >
> >     David Green
> >
> >     16 William Street
> >     Marrickville NSW 2204
> >     Australia
> >
> >     This email may contain confidential and/or privileged
> >     information. It is intended only for the person or persons to
> >     whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or
> >     distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
> >     recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or
> >     telephone and destroy all copies of the original message.
> >
> >
> >     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     ILDS mailing list
> >     ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:00:12 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> To: Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au>,
>        ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <A8D78227-2D09-4571-9D0B-3F34A766FDA8 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I haven't read MacNiven in toto but agree with David's take on Bowker.  I am not convinced, however, with Bowker's attempt to rationalize Durrell's "creative madness," especially with respect to his occasional treatment of his wives, sometimes brutally.
> 
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> 
> > William,
> >
> > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary??
> >
> > David Green
> >
> > From: William Apt
> > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM
> > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> >
> > Dear all:
> >
> > I thought the book outstanding.  How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative  is remarkable.  Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well:  it is a most tactful book.
> >
> > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile?
> >
> > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic.  I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery.
> >
> > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday.
> >
> > --
> > WILLIAM APT
> > Attorney at Law
> > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1,
> > Ste 205
> > Austin TX 78746
> > 512/708-8300
> > 512/708-8011 FAX
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:04:14 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <4850D6A6-F241-4278-BAD7-D7892AD32434 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> The "Justine ts?"  The Justine type script?  Whereas Charles is, I wish him well.
> 
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 5:40 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> 
> > As for Charles,
> >
> >> Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive?
> >> Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke
> >> booke
> >
> > I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts.  I think I'll
> > have to try his cell...
> >
> > Best,
> > James
> >
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:20:47 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <DC627DEB-F4C4-4C33-851E-3E87934F57AF at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Bill,
> 
> Any attempt to write a biography of Lawrence Durrell is a mind-boggling enterprise, both in terms of the complexity of the man himself and the huge amount of material required to absorb and analyze.  He was definitely a genius but also a very flawed one, which is probably the way we want our geniuses to be.  It was a pleasure to offer you the little assistance I could.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:04 PM, William Apt wrote:
> 
> > Dear all:
> >
> > I thought the book outstanding.  How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable.  Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well:  it is a most tactful book.
> >
> > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile?
> >
> > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic.  I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery.
> >
> > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday.
> >
> > --
> > WILLIAM APT
> > Attorney at Law
> > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1,
> > Ste 205
> > Austin TX 78746
> > 512/708-8300
> > 512/708-8011 FAX
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 25
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:03:39 -0800 (PST)
> From: Richard Pine <rpinecorfu at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Names
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <192927.66531.qm at web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Wasn't me! RP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au>; ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM
> Subject: [ilds] Names
> 
> Pursewarden. ?Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's
> surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. ?Or maybe I?just?have a dirty
> mind. ?Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. ?The OED, however, cites
> "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. ?Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse
> steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more
> than coins.
> 
> 
> Mountolive. ?New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion
> and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? ?Not clear how this applies to Sir David,
> unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion
> or?passions?to deal with. ?This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent.
> ?Still, a good name.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> 
> Meta,
> >?
> >thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to
> >find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes.
> >insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful
> >island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus.
> >?
> >To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters
> >?
> >Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord.
> >Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type
> >Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear)
> >The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia
> >(Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences)
> >?
> >etc etc
> >?
> >we recall in 18th century? English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby
> >being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of
> >rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them.
> >?
> >I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard)
> >or Mountolive - who was Olive???
> >?
> >David Green
> >Terra Australis Incognito
> >
> >
> >From:?Meta Cerar
> >Sent:?Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM
> >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >
> >
> >Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN
> >for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the
> >World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire
> >opus, as one of the list members wrote recently.
> >?
> >If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark
> >Labyrinth ?names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark
> >Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth
> >(February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of
> >the book.
> >?
> >I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this
> >particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as
> >a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's
> >influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know
> >if it's worth reading.
> >?
> >BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future
> >Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean
> >but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness?
> >in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great
> >disappointment.
> >?
> >Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth,
> >?
> >Meta Cerar,
> >Slovenia
> >?
> >
> ________________________________
> 
> >From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf
> >Of?Bruce Redwine
> >Sent:?Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM
> >To:?Denise Tart & David Green;?ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >?
> >Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed
> >throughout Durrell's fiction. ?My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as
> >Shakespeare did his low-life characters: ? Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet,
> >Pistol, etc. ?People are their names. ?Doesn't Fearmax die of fright?
> >?
> >?
> >Bruce
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au>
> >wrote:
> >I especially recommend the?early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken
> >speech in front of the Parthenon.?Grove
> >>
> >>It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's
> >>speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and
> >>the? souther classical Parthenon.
> >>?
> >>btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by?them when
> >>reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century
> >>about it.
> >>?
> >>David
> >>?
> >>?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 26
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:18:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: Richard Pine <rpinecorfu at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th
> To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <691071.26582.qm at web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are:
> 
> Abnormal Psychology
> Abraxas
> Almanac
> Archimedes
> Arrhenius
> Asia
> Astrology
> Astronomy
> Calendar
> (Central America - May)
> (Chronology - Maya)
> Circle
> Comparative Ethics
> Confucius
> Cone
> Constellation
> Cosmogony
> Egypt
> Equation of Time
> Geodesy
> Geometry (and Line Geometry)
> Indian Philosophy
> Infinity
> Lhasa
> Limit
> Mayan Calendar
> Mayan Culture
> Menstruation
> Nashe
> Number & Numerals
> Observatory
> Palmistry
> Ptolemy
> Serpents
> Sphere
> Stoics
> Zero
> Tibet
> Tides
> Time
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM
> Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905
> (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man
> Under Socialism").
> 
> As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was
> largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made
> cuts to existing entries.? If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!? I
> can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the
> comparison between past editions.
> 
> I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too.
> 
> Thanks!
> James
> 
> On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> > James,
> >
> > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> >
> >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com
> >> <mailto:gkoger at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the
> >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more
> >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis
> >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer.
> >>
> >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc
> >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove!
> >> Let's plan for it this summer.
> >>
> >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political
> >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s
> >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked.
> >>
> >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable
> >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications
> >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New
> >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an
> >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to
> >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law,
> >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state):
> >>
> >> "which satisfied the law."
> >>
> >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much.
> >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command,
> >> from myself to myself"
> >>
> >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no
> >> contractual obligations."
> >>
> >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even
> >> though Rome burns."
> >>
> >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at
> >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are
> >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I
> >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that
> >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those
> >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/,
> >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end,
> >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead
> >> on their word and sociability.
> >>
> >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell:
> >>
> >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve;
> >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing."
> >>
> >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take
> >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> >>
> >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> >>
> >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so
> >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s
> >> face."
> >>
> >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden
> >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this
> >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or
> >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open
> >> poetics) are present here.
> >>
> >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind
> >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> James
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 27
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:37:01 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Names
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> I would swear that it was.  So much for memory.
> 
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote:
> 
> > Wasn't me! RP
> >
> > From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> > To: Denise Tart & David Green <dtart at bigpond.net.au>; ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> > Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> > Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM
> > Subject: [ilds] Names
> >
> > Pursewarden.  Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum.  Or maybe I just have a dirty mind.  Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way.  The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse.  Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins.
> >
> > Mountolive.  New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane?  Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with.  This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent.  Still, a good name.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote:
> >
> >> Meta,
> >>
> >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus.
> >>
> >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters
> >>
> >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord.
> >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type
> >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear)
> >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences)
> >>
> >> etc etc
> >>
> >> we recall in 18th century  English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them.
> >>
> >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive???
> >>
> >> David Green
> >> Terra Australis Incognito
> >>
> >> From: Meta Cerar
> >> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM
> >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >>
> >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently.
> >>
> >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth  names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book.
> >>
> >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading.
> >>
> >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment.
> >>
> >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth,
> >>
> >> Meta Cerar,
> >> Slovenia
> >>
> >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM
> >> To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >>
> >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction.  My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters:   Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc.  People are their names.  Doesn't Fearmax die of fright?
> >>
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" <dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove
> >>>
> >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the  souther classical Parthenon.
> >>>
> >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it.
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
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> URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/47524b25/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 28
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 09:06:04 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Cc: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Message-ID: <BD0691BA-9E66-41A2-8A50-D13115EE0D9F at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Thanks.  Fascinating.  He's plotting his literary future.  Note the interest in space and time.  The big interest in the Maya seems strange but probably has to do with their calendar and time.  I haven't checked the 11th, but when the 11th and 14th were published, their code had not been broken into, and the Maya were thought to be peaceful and Arcadian.  Perhaps a jungle version of the Roof of the World, if you will.  After the glyphs were deciphered, along with extensive archaeology, it was discovered they were just the opposite ? highly warlike and bloodthirsty.  Mel Gibson's Apocalypto is not far from the truth.  It might be a good exercise for some energetic graduate student to read all these articles and then compare them with Durrell's oeuvre.  Surely worth an article or two.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:18 AM, Richard Pine wrote:
> 
> > The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are:
> >
> > Abnormal Psychology
> > Abraxas
> > Almanac
> > Archimedes
> > Arrhenius
> > Asia
> > Astrology
> > Astronomy
> > Calendar
> > (Central America - May)
> > (Chronology - Maya)
> > Circle
> > Comparative Ethics
> > Confucius
> > Cone
> > Constellation
> > Cosmogony
> > Egypt
> > Equation of Time
> > Geodesy
> > Geometry (and Line Geometry)
> > Indian Philosophy
> > Infinity
> > Lhasa
> > Limit
> > Mayan Calendar
> > Mayan Culture
> > Menstruation
> > Nashe
> > Number & Numerals
> > Observatory
> > Palmistry
> > Ptolemy
> > Serpents
> > Sphere
> > Stoics
> > Zero
> > Tibet
> > Tides
> > Time
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM
> > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th
> >
> > Hi Bruce,
> >
> > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905
> > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man
> > Under Socialism").
> >
> > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was
> > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made
> > cuts to existing entries.  If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!  I
> > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the
> > comparison between past editions.
> >
> > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > James
> >
> > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> >> James,
> >>
> >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com
> >>> <mailto:gkoger at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the
> >>>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more
> >>>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis
> >>>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer.
> >>>
> >>> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc
> >>> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove!
> >>> Let's plan for it this summer.
> >>>
> >>> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political
> >>> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s
> >>> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked.
> >>>
> >>> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable
> >>> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications
> >>> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New
> >>> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an
> >>> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to
> >>> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law,
> >>> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state):
> >>>
> >>> "which satisfied the law."
> >>>
> >>> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much.
> >>> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command,
> >>> from myself to myself"
> >>>
> >>> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no
> >>> contractual obligations."
> >>>
> >>> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even
> >>> though Rome burns."
> >>>
> >>> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at
> >>> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are
> >>> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I
> >>> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that
> >>> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those
> >>> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/,
> >>> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end,
> >>> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead
> >>> on their word and sociability.
> >>>
> >>> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell:
> >>>
> >>> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve;
> >>> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing."
> >>>
> >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take
> >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> >>>
> >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> >>>
> >>> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so
> >>> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s
> >>> face."
> >>>
> >>> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden
> >>> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this
> >>> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or
> >>> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open
> >>> poetics) are present here.
> >>>
> >>> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind
> >>> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all?
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> James
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 29
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:27:22 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ilds] the purse
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D445C0A.30904 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>  > I would swear that it was. So much for memory.
>  >
>  >> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote:
>  >>
>  >> Wasn't me! RP
>  >>
>  >>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>  >>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that
>  >>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I
>  >>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this
> 
> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it:
> Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400.  AJ French chimed in on this point as
> well, and Bruce showed much interest.  My goodness we've been after
> those purse strings for a long time!
> 
> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and
> it appears in the OED with this association.  I'm intrigued to note that
> the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied
> Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips).  I
> wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this
> regard across Durrell's works over time.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 30
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:31:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
>        <24725023.1296325907489.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> James,
> 
> Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. Aren't the books all about contradictions?
> 
> Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach would be another reason to look forward to summer!
> 
> Grove
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Jan 28, 2011 2:21 PM
> >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> >
> >On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote:
> >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the
> >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more
> >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis
> >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer.
> >
> >Do I sense another reading group coming on?  I'd enjoy that, and Tunc
> >and Nunquam have been favourites of mine.  Great suggestion, Grove!
> >Let's plan for it this summer.
> >
> >I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political
> >works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s
> >and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked.
> >
> >Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable
> >ending to /Nunquam/...  I can't help but think of Durrell's publications
> >in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New
> >Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an
> >antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made.  Add to
> >that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law,
> >authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state):
> >
> >"which satisfied the law."
> >
> >"the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much.
> >  Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command,
> >from myself to myself"
> >
> >"People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no
> >contractual obligations."
> >
> >"we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even
> >though Rome burns."
> >
> >I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at
> >the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are
> >explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I
> >can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that
> >asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those
> >terms.  Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/,
> >but there's something kindred.  The state (Rome) falls, contracts end,
> >law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead
> >on their word and sociability.
> >
> >The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell:
> >
> >"Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve;
> >or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing."
> >
> >The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek
> >clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the
> >destruction of coercion and obligation).  However, I can't help but take
> >the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?!
> >Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the
> >Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th
> >edition?  I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition):
> >
> >"The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno
> >[...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without
> >government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence
> >of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the
> >sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already
> >that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to
> >egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with
> >another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough
> >to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers
> >and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or
> >police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money --
> >free gifts taking the place of the exchanges."
> >
> >I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so
> >that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s
> >face."
> >
> >I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden
> >Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this
> >in my head at the moment.  Still, it seems like some anti-state or
> >antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open
> >poetics) are present here.
> >
> >At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind
> >lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/...  What say y'all?
> >
> >Best,
> >James
> >_______________________________________________
> >ILDS mailing list
> >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 31
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:29:21 -0800
> From: James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4D446A91.4070105 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Grove,
> 
> Let's consider this an aim for late April/May?  Unless, of course,
> there's a chorus from the listserv to get started right away...
> 
> I'd agree about the Firm being more than simply a modern institution in
> the books -- I suppose my curiosity relates to the potential for LD to
> be talking about coercive authority in that 1968 moment (which Don Kacz
> has noted before).  Just what *is* the Firm?
> 
> I'm in the midst of a long project relating to poetry networks in the
> 1930s and 40s that differ from the High Modernists and Auden group by
> virtue of antiauthoritarian politics (or Herbert Read's politics of the
> unpolitical), and Durrell's in there though he's peripheral.  That is
> certainly shaping my readerly perspective at the moment {winks eye at
> Bruce}, but it seems surprisingly easy to develop that perspective.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> On 29/01/11 10:31 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote:
> > James,
> >
> > Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last
> > reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm
> > has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as
> > well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central
> > situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never.
> > Aren't the books all about contradictions?
> >
> > Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach
> > would be another reason to look forward to summer!
> >
> > Grove
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 32
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:28:48 -0800
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse
> To: "gifford at fdu.edu" <gifford at fdu.edu>,        "ilds at lists.uvic.ca"
>        <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> 
> Congratulations!  RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety.  So at least three of us have dirty minds.  Durrell does encourage this kind of research.  I wonder if the women on this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile behavior.
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford <james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> >> I would swear that it was. So much for memory.
> >>
> >>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Wasn't me! RP
> >>>
> >>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> >>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that
> >>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I
> >>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this
> >
> > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it:
> > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400.  AJ French chimed in on this point as
> > well, and Bruce showed much interest.  My goodness we've been after
> > those purse strings for a long time!
> >
> > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and
> > it appears in the OED with this association.  I'm intrigued to note that
> > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied
> > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips).  I
> > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this
> > regard across Durrell's works over time.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13
> ************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------
> "...but why is the rum gone?!?!"
> _______________________________________________
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> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
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