From Smithchamberlin at aol.com Mon Jan 24 07:59:32 2011 From: Smithchamberlin at aol.com (Smithchamberlin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:59:32 EST Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 8 Message-ID: <2d157.6701bc9.3a6efbe4@aol.com> The Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a plaque reminding visitors when the "great Hellene" lived in that building. The ILDS conference on that island was one of the best, as I recall. Mike Keeley was there and drank red wine during David Roussell's public interview with him in a courtyard. Brewster In a message dated 1/23/2011 3:01:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca writes: Send ILDS mailing list submissions to ilds at lists.uvic.ca To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca You can reach the person managing the list at ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) 2. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) 3. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Denise Tart & David Green) 4. Re: Durrell and Rank and Thanks (Denise Tart & David Green) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:01:09 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD To: Durrell list , Denise Tart & David Green Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <9D04D1FF-1539-4D38-8ED1-A6C341F0E7E5 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" David, As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque commemorating the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar remembrance on Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? or so was the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. Mohamed Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's name is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a modern Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. Bruce On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. > > David > > > > From: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > > David, > > Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's >> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more >> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed >> wilderness even in the cities. >> >> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or >> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the >> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat >> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as >> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is >> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in >> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. >> >> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, >> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in >> October walk. >> >> DG >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "James Gifford" >> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM >> To: "ILDS Listserv" >> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in >>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look >>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): >>> >>> >>> Lea >>> Lea Stogdale >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/cab93885/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:08:11 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD To: Durrell list Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Correction. "Turks on Cyprus." Bellapaix is in the Turkish sector of the island. BR On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > David, > > As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque commemorating the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar remembrance on Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? or so was the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. Mohamed Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's name is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a modern Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. >> >> David >> >> >> >> From: Bruce Redwine >> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM >> To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> >> David, >> >> Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >>> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's >>> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more >>> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed >>> wilderness even in the cities. >>> >>> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or >>> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the >>> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat >>> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as >>> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is >>> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in >>> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. >>> >>> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, >>> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in >>> October walk. >>> >>> DG >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "James Gifford" >>> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM >>> To: "ILDS Listserv" >>> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in >>>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look >>>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): >>>> >>>> >>>> Lea >>>> Lea Stogdale >>>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/fb7df0df/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:12:19 +1100 From: "Denise Tart & David Green" Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD To: "Bruce Redwine" , Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. David From: Bruce Redwine Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD David, Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. Bruce On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed wilderness even in the cities. The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in October walk. DG -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Gifford" Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM To: "ILDS Listserv" Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD Hello all, Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): Lea Lea Stogdale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110123/2ea91de2/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:18:15 +1100 From: "Denise Tart & David Green" Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell and Rank and Thanks To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Rony, Gordon Bowker's biography, a harsher portrait of LD, contains 11 references to Otto Rank. Worth a read. David Green From: Rony Alfandary Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:24 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] Durrell and Rank and Thanks Thank you all for the various lead concerning Rank and Durrell. some of those i was already familiar with. i still search for that particular text Durrell wrote on Rank which Macniven mentions on p. 201 in his biography. thanks, rony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110123/b4d549df/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds End of ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 8 *********************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110124/5f5729ac/attachment.html From lillios at mail.ucf.edu Mon Jan 24 09:38:33 2011 From: lillios at mail.ucf.edu (Anna Lillios) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:38:33 -0500 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 8 Message-ID: <4D3D72C90200004D00061CBF@mail.ucf.edu> Hi Brewster! My most memorable moment of that conference was meeting Eve Durrell.... --Anna Dr. Anna Lillios Associate Professor of English Department of English University of Central Florida P.O. Box 161346 Orlando, Florida 32816-1346 Phone: (407) 823-5161 FAX: (407) 823-6582 >>> 01/24/11 12:32 PM >>> The Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a plaque reminding visitors when the "great Hellene" lived in that building. The ILDS conference on that island was one of the best, as I recall. Mike Keeley was there and drank red wine during David Roussell's public interview with him in a courtyard. Brewster In a message dated 1/23/2011 3:01:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca writes: Send ILDS mailing list submissions to ilds at lists.uvic.ca To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca You can reach the person managing the list at ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) 2. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) 3. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Denise Tart & David Green) 4. Re: Durrell and Rank and Thanks (Denise Tart & David Green) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:01:09 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD To: Durrell list , Denise Tart & David Green Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <9D04D1FF-1539-4D38-8ED1-A6C341F0E7E5 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" David, As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque commemorating the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar remembrance on Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? or so was the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. Mohamed Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's name is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a modern Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. Bruce On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. > > David > > > > From: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > > David, > > Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's >> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more >> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed >> wilderness even in the cities. >> >> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or >> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the >> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat >> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as >> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is >> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in >> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. >> >> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, >> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in >> October walk. >> >> DG >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "James Gifford" >> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM >> To: "ILDS Listserv" >> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in >>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look >>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): >>> >>> >>> Lea >>> Lea Stogdale >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/cab93885/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:08:11 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD To: Durrell list Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Correction. "Turks on Cyprus." Bellapaix is in the Turkish sector of the island. BR On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > David, > > As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque commemorating the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar remembrance on Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? or so was the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. Mohamed Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's name is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a modern Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. >> >> David >> >> >> >> From: Bruce Redwine >> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM >> To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> >> David, >> >> Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >>> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's >>> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more >>> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed >>> wilderness even in the cities. >>> >>> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or >>> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the >>> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat >>> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as >>> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is >>> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in >>> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. >>> >>> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, >>> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in >>> October walk. >>> >>> DG >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "James Gifford" >>> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM >>> To: "ILDS Listserv" >>> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in >>>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look >>>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): >>>> >>>> >>>> Lea >>>> Lea Stogdale >>>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/fb7df0df/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:12:19 +1100 From: "Denise Tart & David Green" Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD To: "Bruce Redwine" , Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. David From: Bruce Redwine Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD David, Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. Bruce On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed wilderness even in the cities. The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in October walk. DG -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Gifford" Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM To: "ILDS Listserv" Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD Hello all, Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): Lea Lea Stogdale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110123/2ea91de2/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:18:15 +1100 From: "Denise Tart & David Green" Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell and Rank and Thanks To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Rony, Gordon Bowker's biography, a harsher portrait of LD, contains 11 references to Otto Rank. Worth a read. David Green From: Rony Alfandary Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:24 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] Durrell and Rank and Thanks Thank you all for the various lead concerning Rank and Durrell. some of those i was already familiar with. i still search for that particular text Durrell wrote on Rank which Macniven mentions on p. 201 in his biography. thanks, rony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110123/b4d549df/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds End of ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 8 *********************************** From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 24 11:30:23 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:30:23 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Plaques In-Reply-To: <2d157.6701bc9.3a6efbe4@aol.com> References: <2d157.6701bc9.3a6efbe4@aol.com> Message-ID: Good to hear. Unfortunately no such remembrance exists in the Cecil in Alexandria. No plaque, no sign, nothing re Lawrence Durrell. If books outlive monuments, then Haag's City of Memory and Vintage Alexandria remain fitting tributes to Durrell's most famous city. Why the owners of the Cecil choose not to remember its unique history is a sad commentary on politics in today's Egypt. Not all former colonies or protectorates or whatever of the once British Empire suppress their past. Last year I was in Malaysia and Singapore. I visited two of the colonial hotels, those "old grand ladies": The E&O in Penang and the Raffles in Singapore. Both revere their heritage. The E&O has an alcove devoted to photographs of its famous visitors: Joseph Conrad among them. The Raffles has its Long Bar, where Somerset Maugham supposedly sat and wrote some of his Eastern stories. Even the Vietnamese don't obliterate the Western past. In Saigon, you can go to the Hotel Continental and have the concierge point out the room (214) where Graham Greene stayed, when gathering material for The Quiet American. BR On Jan 24, 2011, at 7:59 AM, Smithchamberlin at aol.com wrote: > The Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a plaque reminding visitors when the "great Hellene" lived in that building. The ILDS conference on that island was one of the best, as I recall. Mike Keeley was there and drank red wine during David Roussell's public interview with him in a courtyard. > Brewster > > In a message dated 1/23/2011 3:01:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca writes: > Send ILDS mailing list submissions to > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) > 2. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) > 3. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Denise Tart & David Green) > 4. Re: Durrell and Rank and Thanks (Denise Tart & David Green) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:01:09 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > To: Durrell list , Denise Tart & David Green > > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <9D04D1FF-1539-4D38-8ED1-A6C341F0E7E5 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > David, > > As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque commemorating the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar remembrance on Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? or so was the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. Mohamed Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's name is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a modern Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. > > > > David > > > > > > > > From: Bruce Redwine > > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM > > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Cc: Bruce Redwine > > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > > > > David, > > > > Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > >> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's > >> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more > >> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed > >> wilderness even in the cities. > >> > >> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or > >> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the > >> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat > >> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as > >> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is > >> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in > >> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. > >> > >> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, > >> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in > >> October walk. > >> > >> DG > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------- > >> From: "James Gifford" > >> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM > >> To: "ILDS Listserv" > >> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > >> > >>> Hello all, > >>> > >>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in > >>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look > >>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): > >>> > >>> > >>> Lea > >>> Lea Stogdale > >>> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/cab93885/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:08:11 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > To: Durrell list > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Correction. "Turks on Cyprus." Bellapaix is in the Turkish sector of the island. > > > BR > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110124/9748dbbc/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Mon Jan 24 11:34:28 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 06:34:28 +1100 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <4D3D72C90200004D00061CBF@mail.ucf.edu> References: <4D3D72C90200004D00061CBF@mail.ucf.edu> Message-ID: <268704B891A74FC7B02FB6CA6F175F37@DenisePC> What was she like? David -------------------------------------------------- From: "Anna Lillios" Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:38 AM To: Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 8 > Hi Brewster! > > My most memorable moment of that conference was meeting Eve Durrell.... > > --Anna > > Dr. Anna Lillios > Associate Professor of English > Department of English > University of Central Florida > P.O. Box 161346 > Orlando, Florida 32816-1346 > > Phone: (407) 823-5161 > FAX: (407) 823-6582 >>>> 01/24/11 12:32 PM >>> > The Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a plaque reminding visitors when the > "great Hellene" lived in that building. The ILDS conference on that island > was > one of the best, as I recall. Mike Keeley was there and drank red wine > during David Roussell's public interview with him in a courtyard. > Brewster > > > In a message dated 1/23/2011 3:01:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca writes: > > Send ILDS mailing list submissions to > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) > 2. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) > 3. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Denise Tart & David Green) > 4. Re: Durrell and Rank and Thanks (Denise Tart & David Green) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:01:09 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > To: Durrell list , Denise Tart & David Green > > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <9D04D1FF-1539-4D38-8ED1-A6C341F0E7E5 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > David, > > As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value > Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque > commemorating > the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar remembrance on > Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar > plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian > government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? > or so was > the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. Mohamed > Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your > comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's > name > is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary > consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a > modern > Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were > alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The > recently > posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess > to > gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of > course > was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, > the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red > Barrel > beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - > indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of > the > Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. >> >> David >> >> >> >> From: Bruce Redwine >> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM >> To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> >> David, >> >> Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood > memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the > edge > of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has > grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but > would > Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? > I > think not. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >>> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged > Larry's >>> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with > more >>> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely > tamed >>> wilderness even in the cities. >>> >>> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or >>> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you > visit the >>> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat >>> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories > - as >>> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's > writing is >>> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; > octopus in >>> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. >>> >>> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's > Hotel, >>> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem > in >>> October walk. >>> >>> DG >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "James Gifford" >>> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM >>> To: "ILDS Listserv" >>> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in >>>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a >>>> look >>>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): >>>> >>>> >>>> Lea >>>> Lea Stogdale >>>> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/cab93885/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:08:11 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > To: Durrell list > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Correction. "Turks on Cyprus." Bellapaix is in the Turkish sector of > the > island. > > > BR > > > > On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> David, >> >> As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value > Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque > commemorating the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar > remembrance on > Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar > plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian > government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? > or so > was the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. > Mohamed > Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your > comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's > name is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary > consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a > modern > Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >>> Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were > alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The > recently > posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess > to > gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of > course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the > war, > the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red > Barrel > beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - > indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of > the > Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Bruce Redwine >>> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM >>> To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>> Cc: Bruce Redwine >>> Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >>> >>> David, >>> >>> Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood > memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the > edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix > has > grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but > would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's > books? > I think not. >>> >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >>> >>>> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged > Larry's >>>> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with > more >>>> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely > tamed >>>> wilderness even in the cities. >>>> >>>> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or > >>>> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you > visit the >>>> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's > Boat >>>> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and > stories - as >>>> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's > writing is >>>> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; > octopus in >>>> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. >>>> >>>> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's > Hotel, >>>> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem > in >>>> October walk. >>>> >>>> DG >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "James Gifford" >>>> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM >>>> To: "ILDS Listserv" >>>> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in >>>>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a > look >>>>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Lea >>>>> Lea Stogdale >>>>> >>> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/fb7df0df/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:12:19 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > To: "Bruce Redwine" , > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were > alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The > recently > posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess > to > gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of > course > was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, > the > rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel > beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - > indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of > the > Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. > > David > > > > > From: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > > > David, > > > Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood > memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the > edge > of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has > grown > since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would > Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? > I > think not. > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's > house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more > vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely > tamed > > wilderness even in the cities. > > The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or > extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit > the > place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat > House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - > as > sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing > is > shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus > in > red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. > > My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's > Hotel, > washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in > October walk. > > DG > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "James Gifford" > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM > To: "ILDS Listserv" > Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD > > > Hello all, > > > > Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in > > Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look > > (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): > > > > > > Lea > > Lea Stogdale > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110123/2ea91de2/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:18:15 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell and Rank and Thanks > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Rony, > > Gordon Bowker's biography, a harsher portrait of LD, contains 11 > references to Otto Rank. Worth a read. > > David Green > > > From: Rony Alfandary > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:24 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] Durrell and Rank and Thanks > > > Thank you all for the various lead concerning Rank and Durrell. some of > those i was already familiar with. i still search for that particular > text > Durrell wrote on Rank which Macniven mentions on p. 201 in his biography. > thanks, > rony > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110123/b4d549df/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > End of ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 8 > *********************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 24 11:49:34 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:49:34 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Plaques In-Reply-To: References: <2d157.6701bc9.3a6efbe4@aol.com> Message-ID: <7A42D5C6-CBA9-43AE-B943-D7163E579035@earthlink.net> Someone informs me there is or was such a plaque mentioning LD in 2000 or 2001. I missed it in 2007. The widespread hostility to Durrell and his depiction of Alexandria, however, was a very big part of the general discussions at the Durrell Celebration in Alexandria, 2007. BR On Jan 24, 2011, at 11:30 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > Good to hear. Unfortunately no such remembrance exists in the Cecil in Alexandria. No plaque, no sign, nothing re Lawrence Durrell. If books outlive monuments, then Haag's City of Memory and Vintage Alexandria remain fitting tributes to Durrell's most famous city. Why the owners of the Cecil choose not to remember its unique history is a sad commentary on politics in today's Egypt. Not all former colonies or protectorates or whatever of the once British Empire suppress their past. Last year I was in Malaysia and Singapore. I visited two of the colonial hotels, those "old grand ladies": The E&O in Penang and the Raffles in Singapore. Both revere their heritage. The E&O has an alcove devoted to photographs of its famous visitors: Joseph Conrad among them. The Raffles has its Long Bar, where Somerset Maugham supposedly sat and wrote some of his Eastern stories. Even the Vietnamese don't obliterate the Western past. In Saigon, you can go to the Hotel Continental and have the concierge point out the room (214) where Graham Greene stayed, when gathering material for The Quiet American. > > > BR > > > > On Jan 24, 2011, at 7:59 AM, Smithchamberlin at aol.com wrote: > >> The Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a plaque reminding visitors when the "great Hellene" lived in that building. The ILDS conference on that island was one of the best, as I recall. Mike Keeley was there and drank red wine during David Roussell's public interview with him in a courtyard. >> Brewster >> >> In a message dated 1/23/2011 3:01:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca writes: >> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to >> ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) >> 2. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Bruce Redwine) >> 3. Re: In the footsteps of LD (Denise Tart & David Green) >> 4. Re: Durrell and Rank and Thanks (Denise Tart & David Green) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:01:09 -0800 >> From: Bruce Redwine >> Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> To: Durrell list , Denise Tart & David Green >> >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Message-ID: <9D04D1FF-1539-4D38-8ED1-A6C341F0E7E5 at earthlink.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> David, >> >> As Lea's excellent photos show, the Greeks on Cyprus clearly value Durrell's contribution to the history of the island. So the plaque commemorating the house where he stayed in Bellapaix. So too a similar remembrance on Corfu at Kalami. I wonder if Villa Cleobolus on Rhodes has a similar plaque. The situation in Alexandria is far more uncertain. The Egyptian government is reluctant to make the Ambron Villa a historical landmark ? or so was the situation in 2007 at the Durrell Celebration in Alex. Dr. Mohamed Awad was trying to preserve the site. Dunno what success he's had. Your comment about the semi-literate factory worker is interesting. Durrell's name is known, if not much about him. LD left his mark on the literary consciousness of the eastern Mediterranean ? in my view, somewhat like a modern Alexander, whose conquests have turned into myth and oral history. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >> > Even in 1985, when I went to Corfu and when both Larry and Gerry were alive, there was Durrell tourism which as no doubt grown since. The recently posted photos from Cyprus suggest something of a Durrell trail. I guess to gets tourists into tavernas and buses and hotels and so on. Larry of course was appalled by what had happened to the Grecian islands after the war, the rampant development and spread of fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel beer. If Larry got a lot out Greece, then Greece got a lot out of him - indeed I am even acquainted with a Greek factory worker who had heard of the Durrells - but he had not read any of the books due to semi illiteracy. >> > >> > David >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Bruce Redwine >> > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:31 AM >> > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> > Cc: Bruce Redwine >> > Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> > >> > David, >> > >> > Yes. Durrell's house on Cyprus is not as I imagined. Like a childhood memory, I made it bigger. I also visualized an isolated place, on the edge of town, as you describe, or near a promontory. Perhaps Bellapaix has grown since the 1950s. Greek islands are extraordinarily beautiful, but would Corfu, Rhodes, or Cyprus be as popular were it not for Durrell's books? I think not. >> > >> > >> > Bruce >> > >> > >> > >> > On Jan 21, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> > >> >> yes. loved the photos. from reading Bitter Lemons I always imaged Larry's >> >> house to be in a wilder more on the edge of town type landscape with more >> >> vegetation. could be an Australian thing; this country being a barely tamed >> >> wilderness even in the cities. >> >> >> >> The way writers write about places often contains their inner souls or >> >> extravagant imaginations which cannot always be picked up when you visit the >> >> place - the only exception to this, in my case, was Dylan Thomas's Boat >> >> House at Laugharne; exactly as I imagined it from his poems and stories - as >> >> sad and grand and as Thomasy as you could wish. But the Thomas's writing is >> >> shy and introverted whereas LD's is big colours and extroverted; octopus in >> >> red sauce and citrus tones and naked nymphs in modern guise. >> >> >> >> My brother and I had excellent trout and leeks for lunch at Brown's Hotel, >> >> washed down by several pints of brown Welsh beer. We then did the Poem in >> >> October walk. >> >> >> >> DG >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> >> From: "James Gifford" >> >> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:16 AM >> >> To: "ILDS Listserv" >> >> Subject: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> >> >> >>> Hello all, >> >>> >> >>> Many of you may remember Lea Stogdale from the ILDS conference in >> >>> Victoria. She's continued her travels and invite people to take a look >> >>> (here's the link to her LD photos on Cyprus): >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Lea >> >>> Lea Stogdale >> >>> >> > >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110122/cab93885/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:08:11 -0800 >> From: Bruce Redwine >> Subject: Re: [ilds] In the footsteps of LD >> To: Durrell list >> Cc: Bruce Redwine >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> Correction. "Turks on Cyprus." Bellapaix is in the Turkish sector of the island. >> >> >> BR >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110124/332fa0cb/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Tue Jan 25 15:30:23 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:30:23 +1100 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Message-ID: It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own right? Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" Yours, somewhat puzzled, David Green 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/2afab436/attachment.html From Ken.Gammage at directed.com Tue Jan 25 16:29:16 2011 From: Ken.Gammage at directed.com (Ken Gammage) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:29:16 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D9370E2@mail2.directed.com> Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the listserv! However, I'm not sure how well your example supports your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in detailed and I'm sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) You see - that's why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy website: www.travelogorrhea.com Viva Durrell! Kennedy Gammage ken.gammage at directed.com From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM To: Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own right? Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" Yours, somewhat puzzled, David Green 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 Australia This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110125/989c9106/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Tue Jan 25 18:04:05 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:04:05 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with David Green. If the ILDS List is to survive as an open forum it requires both participation and receptivity to all kinds of ideas about Lawrence Durrell and his achievement. A couple of months ago, Bill Godshalk was exploring Thomas Middleton's Blacke Booke as a source for Durrell's own novel of the same name. Some members complained privately that such topics were too "academic." If I understand the circumstances correctly, those complaints ended further discussion on this fascinating subject. So, scholarly matters were not distributed and abruptly dropped. This I find both ridiculous and astonishing. In my view, nothing about L. Durrell is too academic or too personal for discussion. All kinds of trivia or nitpicking should be examined and discussed, no matter how technical, for the simple reason that there's no telling where they might lead and how important they might become in attaining a full understanding of this major author. With respect to matters of etiquette, I think it good manners to answer questions directly, within reason, of course. We're all equal here. I also think that if one doesn't participate then one shouldn't complain. That's the responsibility of entering the ring. I don't see the ILDS List as a spectator sport. Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence Durrell's life and work. Bruce On Jan 25, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? > > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own right? > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > David Green > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110125/8053304c/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 18:07:28 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:07:28 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3F81E0.8010907@gmail.com> Unless I'm mistaken, we're all out celebrating Virginia Woolf's birthday today rather than posting online... ;) > Is it no longer a forum for discussion, since that > can lead to controversy Personally, I'm just swimming through the chaos of the start of term. I'd imagine since there are a large number of academics, that's a significant factor -- we're relying on you to keep things afloat in the discussions for a while David! We're all in the mid-year administrative slump! So, to throw down a gauntlet, why Rank and not Groddeck? And what of Jung, with whom LD briefly corresponded? Graham Howe? He wrote a good deal on two of them but didn't publish much on Rank, so why not take up Howe and Groddeck? Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled hook & bait: > Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few > things to expunge or expiate. I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' Negative Capability? Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second guess myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? Does that help, David? {grins} Best, James On 25/01/11 3:30 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors > to this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the > last few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to > the lively debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? > > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion > going. Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, > intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The > general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted > to scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, > who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit > to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication > occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer > a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. > Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the > part of certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything > substantive. Is the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice > things to one another or merely to refer to items of Durrell > scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own right? > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used > to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness > or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the > forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, > Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, > "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > David Green > > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > Australia > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 18:18:41 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:18:41 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real issue. Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > Durrell's life and work. My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the opposite), and I don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. "Cheers" James On 25/01/11 6:04 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > I agree with David Green. If the ILDS List is to survive as an open > forum it requires both participation and receptivity to all kinds of > ideas about Lawrence Durrell and his achievement. A couple of months > ago, Bill Godshalk was exploring Thomas Middleton's /Blacke Booke/ as a > source for Durrell's own novel of the same name. Some members complained > privately that such topics were too "academic." If I understand the > circumstances correctly, those complaints ended further discussion on > this fascinating subject. So, scholarly matters were not distributed and > abruptly dropped. This I find both ridiculous and astonishing. In my > view, nothing about L. Durrell is too academic or too personal for > discussion. All kinds of trivia or nitpicking should be examined and > discussed, no matter how technical, for the simple reason that there's > no telling where they might lead and how important they might become in > attaining a full understanding of this major author. With respect to > matters of etiquette, I think it good manners to answer questions > directly, within reason, of course. We're all equal here. I also think > that if one doesn't participate then one shouldn't complain. That's the > responsibility of entering the ring. I don't see the ILDS List as a > spectator sport. Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > Durrell's life and work. > > > Bruce From dtart at bigpond.net.au Tue Jan 25 18:43:49 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:43:49 +1100 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... Australians? - I think I am the only one and yes I enjoy drinking wine as, it would appear, do other Durrellians, but your comment above suggests that is all we (I) post about. This is a tad dismissive as I have contributed on a broader range of topics and at, I would think, a deeper level than this, or has Australia's reputation as a nation of boozers provided a convenient stereotype? (laughs because doesn't care - having a glass right now in fact. it is Australia day after all) To Ken Gammage - as to the artillery cranking into position - charge them with the bayonet! David Mineral Water -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Gifford" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:18 PM To: Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about > "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real > issue. Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the > same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. The > Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and > won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an > open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of > interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. > Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > > Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > > Durrell's life and work. > > My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, but I > suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the opposite), and I > don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. > > I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I > believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > "Cheers" > James > > On 25/01/11 6:04 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> I agree with David Green. If the ILDS List is to survive as an open >> forum it requires both participation and receptivity to all kinds of >> ideas about Lawrence Durrell and his achievement. A couple of months >> ago, Bill Godshalk was exploring Thomas Middleton's /Blacke Booke/ as a >> source for Durrell's own novel of the same name. Some members complained >> privately that such topics were too "academic." If I understand the >> circumstances correctly, those complaints ended further discussion on >> this fascinating subject. So, scholarly matters were not distributed and >> abruptly dropped. This I find both ridiculous and astonishing. In my >> view, nothing about L. Durrell is too academic or too personal for >> discussion. All kinds of trivia or nitpicking should be examined and >> discussed, no matter how technical, for the simple reason that there's >> no telling where they might lead and how important they might become in >> attaining a full understanding of this major author. With respect to >> matters of etiquette, I think it good manners to answer questions >> directly, within reason, of course. We're all equal here. I also think >> that if one doesn't participate then one shouldn't complain. That's the >> responsibility of entering the ring. I don't see the ILDS List as a >> spectator sport. Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence >> Durrell's life and work. >> >> >> Bruce > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 18:56:47 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:56:47 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D3F8D6F.7030808@gmail.com> > has Australia's reputation as a nation of boozers > provided a convenient stereotype? Ahem (tongue planted firmly in cheek), this is the *Durrell* listserv, dear David... I don't think you can claim that reputation all to yourself! I'm simply pointing to the fact that you and our more moderately climactic participants have a fondness for the vine. I find myself in more wintry neighborhoods most of the time. More seriously, I hope you're staying dry while getting yourself wet. But what of Bruce's conversations with the author? There's more than an extra glass behind that type of talk... Best, James On 25/01/11 6:43 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > The > Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > Australians? - I think I am the only one and yes I enjoy drinking wine as, > it would appear, do other Durrellians, but your comment above suggests that > is all we (I) post about. This is a tad dismissive as I have contributed on > a broader range of topics and at, I would think, a deeper level than this, > or has Australia's reputation as a nation of boozers provided a convenient > stereotype? (laughs because doesn't care - having a glass right now in fact. > it is Australia day after all) > > To Ken Gammage - as to the artillery cranking into position - charge them > with the bayonet! > > David Mineral Water > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "James Gifford" > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:18 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real >> issue. Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. The >> Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... >> >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. >> >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence >>> Durrell's life and work. >> >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, but I >> suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the opposite), and I >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. >> >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. >> >> "Cheers" >> James >> >> On 25/01/11 6:04 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> I agree with David Green. If the ILDS List is to survive as an open >>> forum it requires both participation and receptivity to all kinds of >>> ideas about Lawrence Durrell and his achievement. A couple of months >>> ago, Bill Godshalk was exploring Thomas Middleton's /Blacke Booke/ as a >>> source for Durrell's own novel of the same name. Some members complained >>> privately that such topics were too "academic." If I understand the >>> circumstances correctly, those complaints ended further discussion on >>> this fascinating subject. So, scholarly matters were not distributed and >>> abruptly dropped. This I find both ridiculous and astonishing. In my >>> view, nothing about L. Durrell is too academic or too personal for >>> discussion. All kinds of trivia or nitpicking should be examined and >>> discussed, no matter how technical, for the simple reason that there's >>> no telling where they might lead and how important they might become in >>> attaining a full understanding of this major author. With respect to >>> matters of etiquette, I think it good manners to answer questions >>> directly, within reason, of course. We're all equal here. I also think >>> that if one doesn't participate then one shouldn't complain. That's the >>> responsibility of entering the ring. I don't see the ILDS List as a >>> spectator sport. Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence >>> Durrell's life and work. >>> >>> >>> Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From dtart at bigpond.net.au Tue Jan 25 19:23:54 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:23:54 +1100 Subject: [ilds] try wisky In-Reply-To: <4D3F8D6F.7030808@gmail.com> References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> <4D3F8D6F.7030808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52E169ECF2294C9898DAD1F9F2A15917@DenisePC> I'm simply pointing to the fact that you and our more > moderately climactic participants have a fondness for the vine. I find > myself in more wintry neighborhoods most of the time James, my deepest sympathies - try whisky > But what of Bruce's conversations with the author? There's more than an > extra glass behind that type of talk... whatever can you mean? David -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Gifford" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:56 PM To: Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list From ilyas.khan at crosby.com Wed Jan 26 02:14:48 2011 From: ilyas.khan at crosby.com (Ilyas Khan) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:14:48 +0000 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D9370E2@mail2.directed.com> Message-ID: Ken, You make the key point in my view. I am active (and find tremendously rewarding) my participation as ?poster? and ?lurker? on a number of other such venues, and the key difference is that despite much hand wringing on this listserv, there is an incredible tendency towards clique-ishness, made all the more provincially dull by the continuation of long standing personal skirmishes that the vast majority of us do not understand or appreciate. My own attitude has been, therefore, to focus on two things. Firstly, my own love of LD means that I usually find nuggets here, but I also have drifted towards a personal reply instead of a reply to the forum as a whole. Secondly, when the usual small clique start squabbling or cannot see the impact of their language on others, I simply ignore them and enjoy the underlying conversation from which I have learnt so much. At times people such as James and Charles have tried to bring the conversation back to the ?relevant?, but even they, I think, sometimes tire of the same old repetition. There is a message in reply to David?s post that also raises the issue of how some academics have been teased off this listserv from posting stuff that is too academic. I agree that if other venues can maintain a vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur enthusiast, then so can we. On that basis therefore, David, I for one will try to become more active. I value this little part of my life, and unless we all step upto the plate, we have only ourselves to blame. Having made my points above, I am hoping I can become one of the non-scholarly or non-academic participants who has an opinion and a constructive point of view. Thanks On 26/01/2011 00:29, "Ken Gammage" wrote: > Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the listserv! However, > I?m not sure how well your example supports your argument. Rony sent a second > post about Otto Rank that resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful > responses from Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker > for the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful > writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly > and privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to publicly > offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where > others find this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) > You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery cranking > into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my poor taste in Island > books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about > Durrell on the last page of my Italy website: www.travelogorrhea.com > > > Viva Durrell! > > Kennedy Gammage > ken.gammage at directed.com > > > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf > Of Denise Tart & David Green > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > To: Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors to > this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the last few > weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the lively > debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion going. > Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, intended to > stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The general run of > recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia > or references to academic journals. > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, who > appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to > promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication occurred > off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a > forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's > reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of > certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is > the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or > merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in > their own right? > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to > pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it > just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of fiery > debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria > etc etc? > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant > purely in the sense that I protest!" > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > David Green > > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > Australia > > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/13ce6667/attachment.html From wilded at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 08:17:37 2011 From: wilded at hotmail.com (david wilde) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:17:37 -0700 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: <0BEF02A471383D429ADB5873552EF095765D9370E2@mail2.directed.com>, Message-ID: Speaking of lurkers and Dylan Thomas here is a picture of the boathouse at Laugharne for the enlightened reader as well as writers. dw Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:14:48 +0000 From: ilyas.khan at crosby.com To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca; dtart at bigpond.net.au Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Ken, You make the key point in my view. I am active (and find tremendously rewarding) my participation as ?poster? and ?lurker? on a number of other such venues, and the key difference is that despite much hand wringing on this listserv, there is an incredible tendency towards clique-ishness, made all the more provincially dull by the continuation of long standing personal skirmishes that the vast majority of us do not understand or appreciate. My own attitude has been, therefore, to focus on two things. Firstly, my own love of LD means that I usually find nuggets here, but I also have drifted towards a personal reply instead of a reply to the forum as a whole. Secondly, when the usual small clique start squabbling or cannot see the impact of their language on others, I simply ignore them and enjoy the underlying conversation from which I have learnt so much. At times people such as James and Charles have tried to bring the conversation back to the ?relevant?, but even they, I think, sometimes tire of the same old repetition. There is a message in reply to David?s post that also raises the issue of how some academics have been teased off this listserv from posting stuff that is too academic. I agree that if other venues can maintain a vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur enthusiast, then so can we. On that basis therefore, David, I for one will try to become more active. I value this little part of my life, and unless we all step upto the plate, we have only ourselves to blame. Having made my points above, I am hoping I can become one of the non-scholarly or non-academic participants who has an opinion and a constructive point of view. Thanks On 26/01/2011 00:29, "Ken Gammage" wrote: Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy website: www.travelogorrhea.com Viva Durrell! Kennedy Gammage ken.gammage at directed.com From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM To: Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own right? Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" Yours, somewhat puzzled, David Green 16 William Street Marrickville NSW 2204 Australia This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/699cdb14/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tullik_dscf1878_jpgT.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/699cdb14/attachment.jpg From william.godshalk at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 11:39:55 2011 From: william.godshalk at gmail.com (William Godshalk) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:39:55 -0500 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm rather concerned about Charlie Sligh. I've called him several times -- with no response. Anybody have a clue? Bill On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Denise Tart & David Green < dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors > to this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the > last few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the > lively debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? > > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion > going. Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, > intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The > general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to > scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. > > > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, who > appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to > promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication occurred > off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. > > > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a > forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's > reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of > certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is > the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another > or merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things > is in their own right? > > > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to > pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it > just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of > fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, > Alexandria etc etc? > > > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant > purely in the sense that I protest!" > > > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > > > David Green > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > Australia > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/a91eae50/attachment.html From ilyas.khan at crosby.com Wed Jan 26 11:53:23 2011 From: ilyas.khan at crosby.com (Ilyas Khan) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:53:23 +0000 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive ? Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke booke On 26/01/2011 19:39, "William Godshalk" wrote: > I'm rather concerned about Charlie Sligh. I've called him several times -- > with no response.? > > Anybody have a clue? > > Bill? > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Denise Tart & David Green > wrote: >> It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors to >> this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the last >> few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the lively >> debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? >> There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion >> going. ?Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, >> intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The >> general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to >> scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. >> ? >> There was almost no response?to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, ?who >> appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to >> promote LD in the world of scholarship. ?Unless some communication occurred >> off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. >> ? >> Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a >> forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's >> reputation? ? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of >> certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is >> the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or >> merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in >> their own right? >> ? >> Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to >> pitch in have a say??Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it >> just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of >> fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, >> Alexandria etc etc? >> ? >> Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant >> purely in the sense that I protest!" >> ? >> Yours, somewhat puzzled, >> ? >> David Green >> 16 William Street >> Marrickville NSW 2204 >> Australia >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/4fac55ad/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 26 12:16:19 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:16:19 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: James, It's been awhile. I've missed your distinctive humor, but I see you have not missed some of my recent postings, which you've retained for future rebuttal and burlesque. Important issues are at stake, so I'll discuss in detail. Anyone bored by such talk, can hit the delete button now. My responses are numbered. On Jan 25, 2011, at 6:18 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about > "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real > issue. 1. I do. > Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the > same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how energetically expressed. > The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the ILDS Herald, 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. > > Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and > won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an > open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of > interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. > Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. > >> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence >> Durrell's life and work. > > My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. > but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the opposite), and I > don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. > > I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I > believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic queries made public? I'd like to see them. On January 25, 2001, at 6:07 PM, James Gifford wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, we're all out celebrating Virginia Woolf's birthday today rather than posting online... ;) > Is it no longer a forum for discussion, since that > can lead to controversy Personally, I'm just swimming through the chaos of the start of term. I'd imagine since there are a large number of academics, that's a significant factor -- we're relying on you to keep things afloat in the discussions for a while David! We're all in the mid-year administrative slump! 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. So, to throw down a gauntlet, why Rank and not Groddeck? And what of Jung, with whom LD briefly corresponded? Graham Howe? He wrote a good deal on two of them but didn't publish much on Rank, so why not take up Howe and Groddeck? Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled hook & bait: > Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few > things to expunge or expiate. I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in considerable detail. Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' Negative Capability? 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. In his letter of 21 December 1817, Keats uses the term in the sense of "uncertainties, mysteries, doubts," but in his letter of 27 October 1818, he refines the idea to mean a poet's ability to negate his own self and to assume other identities. Seems to me Keats's progression is from fuzzy intuition to a deeper understanding of a rather dark state of being. So I would not call "Negative Capability" a paean to simple ambiguity. Ambiguity in some examples of Durrell's prose and poetry comes from careless diction (Justine, AQ, 26), deliberate use of synesthesia (Bitter Lemons, p. 15), or some other literary device of the "dark crystal" variety (Prospero's Cell, 11, 133). I'm interested in the why of Durrell's use of ambiguity ? beyond the simple statement that we all live in a world with very few certainties. Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second guess myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics, but "what a poet really meant" and "the gloriously ambiguous" are not necessarily incompatible notions. E.g., James's Turn of the Screw and Conrad's Heart of Darkness. I would argue, again, that both stories are meant to be ambiguous. But this is not your main point, surely. You're emphasizing readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980). I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then "expiate" is exactly the right word. Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/bcb91863/attachment.html From alfandary at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 12:32:01 2011 From: alfandary at gmail.com (Rony Alfandary) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:32:01 +0200 Subject: [ilds] The Durrell List Message-ID: Dear All, firstly, I am a male Rony (and not that young anymore), though it has amused me to think otherwise.. i have benefited greatly from your responses to my query so it is my interest to see this forum active and buzzing., it helps me tremendously to know that i am writing about someone who has others interested in... concerning Rand and Groddeck. Yes, I am aware of that vein and exploring it too. Rank interests me in particular as i think that it was his notion about the birth trauma that got D's attention and the fact that he only found his own voice only after departing from his Father figure. i think that something like that also happened to D. i will write more about that in the future and will be happy to share that with you. don't despair please.... i need this warm and critical place... and it also occurred to me to ask if any of you knew a certain Simon Miles who was a dear friend of mine back in the 80's and with whom i shared a passion for LD. it was recently that i learnt of his death. it saddened me so. even though i have been familiar with LD's work since the late 70's, the discussions i held with Simon Miles were great inspiration. it took me another 30 odd yrs to return... Rony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/d3432f8f/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 26 15:12:12 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:12:12 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Charles Sligh Message-ID: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net> Is Charles all right? I hope he's well. Bruce From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Wed Jan 26 18:06:13 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:06:13 -0500 Subject: [ilds] Charles Sligh In-Reply-To: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net> References: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D40D315.6020002@utc.edu> On 1/26/11 6:12 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > Is Charles all right? I hope he's well. > > Many thanks to all here for the concern. I abide. > 'There are sides of the self > One can seldom show. They live on and on > In an emergency of anguish always, > Waiting for parents in another.' -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110126/11cdb7be/attachment.html From holistic3000 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 27 01:10:51 2011 From: holistic3000 at yahoo.com (Ozlem Ince) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 01:10:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] Charles Sligh In-Reply-To: <4D40D315.6020002@utc.edu> References: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net> <4D40D315.6020002@utc.edu> Message-ID: <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> After all the silence,?it is good to?know that a critical number of people are suffering from a sense of intellectual deprivation owing to the fewer number of stimulating discussions on ILDS form.??I?reckon that a?number heavyweight participants?have not just given up on the forum and are just busy?with some germinating thoughts on life and hence Durrell. By the way, don't you think it?could be a good idea to meet at?Bellapaix this spring(being a Cypriot from Cyprus makes it a lot easier)??Durrell lovers?can visit?his home and sit under the tree of idleness discussing Justine. What?could be the possible influence of?that Mediterranan?island??on Durell's writing on Alexanderia?? Greetings to all from the island of bitter lemons.... Ozlem ? ________________________________ From: Charles Sligh To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 4:06:13 AM Subject: Re: [ilds] Charles Sligh On 1/26/11 6:12 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: Is Charles all right? I hope he's well. >>> ? Many thanks to all here for the concern.? I abide. 'There are sides of the self >>>One can seldom show. They live on and on >>>In an emergency of anguish always, >>>Waiting for parents in another.' -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/26f2d9cd/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Thu Jan 27 05:02:49 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:02:49 -0500 Subject: [ilds] Charles Sligh In-Reply-To: <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net> <4D40D315.6020002@utc.edu> <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D416CF9.7000009@utc.edu> On 1/27/11 4:10 AM, Ozlem Ince wrote: > By the way, don't you think it could be a good idea to meet > at Bellapaix this spring(being a Cypriot from Cyprus makes it a > lot easier)? Durrell lovers can visit his home and sit under the > tree of idleness discussing Justine. What could be the possible > influence of that Mediterranan island on Durell's writing on > Alexanderia? What a gracious idea, Ozlem. I will dream myself there. . . . Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/30bdf6a8/attachment.html From Christine.Truebner at stadt-frankfurt.de Thu Jan 27 03:22:59 2011 From: Christine.Truebner at stadt-frankfurt.de (Truebner, Christine) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:22:59 +0100 Subject: [ilds] Charles Sligh In-Reply-To: <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net><4D40D315.6020002@utc.edu> <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh I would personally love to do so, but.....anyway: let us be part of it by keepin on discussing..... REgards, Durelllover Christine from Frankfurt. ________________________________ Von: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] Im Auftrag von Ozlem Ince Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Januar 2011 10:11 An: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Betreff: Re: [ilds] Charles Sligh After all the silence, it is good to know that a critical number of people are suffering from a sense of intellectual deprivation owing to the fewer number of stimulating discussions on ILDS form. I reckon that a number heavyweight participants have not just given up on the forum and are just busy with some germinating thoughts on life and hence Durrell. By the way, don't you think it could be a good idea to meet at Bellapaix this spring(being a Cypriot from Cyprus makes it a lot easier)? Durrell lovers can visit his home and sit under the tree of idleness discussing Justine. What could be the possible influence of that Mediterranan island on Durell's writing on Alexanderia? Greetings to all from the island of bitter lemons.... Ozlem ________________________________ From: Charles Sligh To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 4:06:13 AM Subject: Re: [ilds] Charles Sligh On 1/26/11 6:12 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: Is Charles all right? I hope he's well. Many thanks to all here for the concern. I abide. 'There are sides of the self One can seldom show. They live on and on In an emergency of anguish always, Waiting for parents in another.' -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/af6f8bbd/attachment.html From gkoger at mindspring.com Thu Jan 27 06:57:41 2011 From: gkoger at mindspring.com (gkoger at mindspring.com) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:57:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Message-ID: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/18247e81/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 27 07:32:30 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:32:30 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Charles Sligh In-Reply-To: <4D416CF9.7000009@utc.edu> References: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net> <4D40D315.6020002@utc.edu> <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D416CF9.7000009@utc.edu> Message-ID: <5B21559F-2150-445D-B49B-7869A9CDD883@earthlink.net> Me too. Bruce On Jan 27, 2011, at 5:02 AM, Charles Sligh wrote: > On 1/27/11 4:10 AM, Ozlem Ince wrote: >> By the way, don't you think it could be a good idea to meet at Bellapaix this spring(being a Cypriot from Cyprus makes it a lot easier)? Durrell lovers can visit his home and sit under the tree of idleness discussing Justine. What could be the possible influence of that Mediterranan island on Durell's writing on Alexanderia? > What a gracious idea, Ozlem. > > I will dream myself there. . . . > > Charles > -- > ******************************************** > Charles L. Sligh > Assistant Professor > Department of English > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > charles-sligh at utc.edu > ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/bf338178/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 27 10:47:42 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:47:42 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Light Durrell or Durrell Light In-Reply-To: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <66FABF6C-5533-447D-B898-542AACE0C5EE@earthlink.net> Reading Aphrodite's Revolt, or periphrasis of same, is a good idea. Long overdue, for me, anyway. Think I'll take Grove up on this. Ken's comment about the Greek island books (which I'd expand to include Sicily and the Tyrrhenian Sea) bears serious consideration. David Green deserves full credit for turning our eyes to the islands ("no tongue: all eyes: be silent"). Undoubtedly, Durrell's "potboilers" were done for "filthy lucre," but I find them most interesting and provocative. Durrell, for all his protean productivity, was probably one of Isaiah Berlin's "hedgehogs," more of a possessed Dostoevsky than a foxy Tolstoy. That's to say, he was a man of just a few obsessions (and demons), and these got continually reworked and replayed throughout his oeuvre. So, I find it instructive to uncover these themes and tropes in his self-acknowledged "minor" works. E.g., The Dark Labyrinth, White Eagles over Serbia, and Sicilian Carousel. I sense these are often scoffed at, but I think this view mistaken ? highbrow priggishness. To emphasize what I said before, authors don't always know what they doing, and whether Durrell knew it or not, his potboilers seem to me as revealing (and probably at least as enjoyable) as his "serious" work intended "for all time." Bruce On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > I've enjoyed the responses to David's post, but in my case my silence simply means that I'm busy and haven't had much to say. There are a couple of items about Norman Douglas and Patrick Leigh Fermor that I'll pass on as soon as I can put a few coherent paragraphs together, but in the meantime I'll second Ken's positive comment about The Greek Islands. And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Gammage > Sent: Jan 25, 2011 5:29 PM > To: Denise Tart & David Green , "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) > You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy website: www.travelogorrhea.com > > Viva Durrell! > > Kennedy Gammage > ken.gammage at directed.com > > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Denise Tart & David Green > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > To: Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of Durrell and his works? > > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to academic journals. > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only member to publicly respond. > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own right? > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > David Green > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > Australia > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/1b549919/attachment.html From holistic3000 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 27 11:29:41 2011 From: holistic3000 at yahoo.com (Ozlem Ince) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:29:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] (no subject) Message-ID: <262382.22539.qm@web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It?would be?great to?meet?all Durrellians?here in Bellapais. I attached some pictures below to give you an idea of the?spirit of place.?So, keep dreaming of the place until the city becomes "real" in April-May.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/3274046c/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bellapaix 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 94427 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/3274046c/attachment.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bellapaix 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 78258 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/3274046c/attachment-0001.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bellapaix3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 100203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/3274046c/attachment-0002.jpg From dtart at bigpond.net.au Thu Jan 27 11:31:28 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 06:31:28 +1100 Subject: [ilds] Dreaming of sunny Cyprus In-Reply-To: <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <98A6F4FF-1A03-40FD-A9EE-DE17D7D278CE@earthlink.net><4D40D315.6020002@utc.edu> <446890.24743.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <547D9A7AB1764E44AC787E5C7D80E2B9@DenisePC> Oslem, in keeping with my antipodean idiom, as recently described by James, I drink a glass of fine chardonnay to the idea of sitting under the tree of idleness discussing the influence of islands on the writings of Lawrence Durrell, about which I have recently written on this list and in other forms. Indeed I am soon to present a lunchtime (of course) seminar to my wife's book club group on islomania: the positive experience of Corfu and Rhodes turned sour on Cyprus. Planning a tour of the Durrell island so the aforesaid Bellapaix meeting may well happen. in vino veritas David From: Ozlem Ince Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:10 PM To: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] Charles Sligh After all the silence, it is good to know that a critical number of people are suffering from a sense of intellectual deprivation owing to the fewer number of stimulating discussions on ILDS form. I reckon that a number heavyweight participants have not just given up on the forum and are just busy with some germinating thoughts on life and hence Durrell. By the way, don't you think it could be a good idea to meet at Bellapaix this spring(being a Cypriot from Cyprus makes it a lot easier)? Durrell lovers can visit his home and sit under the tree of idleness discussing Justine. What could be the possible influence of that Mediterranan island on Durell's writing on Alexanderia? Greetings to all from the island of bitter lemons.... Ozlem -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Sligh To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 4:06:13 AM Subject: Re: [ilds] Charles Sligh On 1/26/11 6:12 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: Is Charles all right? I hope he's well. Many thanks to all here for the concern. I abide. 'There are sides of the self One can seldom show. They live on and on In an emergency of anguish always, Waiting for parents in another.' -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/e7fbf4ce/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Thu Jan 27 11:59:24 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 06:59:24 +1100 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <988A8939CAF04E488F22F76930C5810E@DenisePC> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/14ccb52f/attachment.html From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Thu Jan 27 13:20:26 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:20:26 -0500 Subject: [ilds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <262382.22539.qm@web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <262382.22539.qm@web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D41E19A.2010300@utc.edu> On 1/27/11 2:29 PM, Ozlem Ince wrote: > > It would be great to meet all Durrellians here in Bellapais. I > attached some pictures below to give you an idea of the spirit > of place. So, keep dreaming of the place until the city > becomes "real" in April-May. > > /Beautiful/ photos, Ozlem. You are privileged. Thank you for sharing. Charles -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/cb14223b/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 27 13:23:45 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:23:45 -0800 Subject: [ilds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <262382.22539.qm@web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <262382.22539.qm@web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1F0044F2-8299-48DF-B056-8678D3D0B8AE@earthlink.net> Great photos, Ozlem! Perhaps you could comment on how today's Bellapaix compares with Durrell's of the 1950s. Has the place changed much? Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:29 AM, Ozlem Ince wrote: > > It would be great to meet all Durrellians here in Bellapais. I attached some pictures below to give you an idea of the spirit of place. So, keep dreaming of the place until the city becomes "real" in April-May. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/13152c05/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 27 13:43:11 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:43:11 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <988A8939CAF04E488F22F76930C5810E@DenisePC> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <988A8939CAF04E488F22F76930C5810E@DenisePC> Message-ID: <9557520E-CE9E-4D6F-803B-F6426F077BD3@earthlink.net> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > > It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > > btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. > > David > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/bb899bb0/attachment.html From billyapt at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 15:50:07 2011 From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:50:07 -0800 Subject: [ilds] THANKS! Message-ID: Dear all: Am just about finished with MacNiven's bio. Have really enjoyed it and will have more to say about it shortly. But for now wanted to thank you for being so helpful to me during the past 2 yrs during my ongoing journey through LD's work. You guys were so good about answering questions - especially Professors Sligh, Redwine, and Gifford - and were always so enlightening. Because I know you are busy, and because I am not a scholar but merely an enthusiast, I tried to call on the ILDS list-serve only when absolutely necessary and trust I wasn't a burden. I hope to come to the London meeting this summer if possible and greatly look forward to meeting everyone. BILLY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110127/ae435717/attachment.html From marcpiel at interdesign.fr Thu Jan 27 16:34:30 2011 From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 01:34:30 +0100 Subject: [ilds] THANKS! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D420F16.4010504@interdesign.fr> what London meeting????????? Le 28/01/11 00:50, William Apt a ?crit : > Dear all: > Am just about finished with MacNiven's bio. Have really enjoyed it and > will have more to say about it shortly. But for now wanted to thank you > for being so helpful to me during the past 2 yrs during my ongoing > journey through LD's work. You guys were so good about answering > questions - especially Professors Sligh, Redwine, and Gifford - and were > always so enlightening. Because I know you are busy, and because I am > not a scholar but merely an enthusiast, I tried to call on the ILDS > list-serve only when absolutely necessary and trust I wasn't a burden. > I hope to come to the London meeting this summer if possible and greatly > look forward to meeting everyone. > BILLY > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si Fri Jan 28 02:58:57 2011 From: meta.cerar at guest.arnes.si (Meta Cerar) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:58:57 +0100 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <9557520E-CE9E-4D6F-803B-F6426F077BD3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> Actually there are more >18th century< names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian - to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) - and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the >Tree of idleness< in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, Meta Cerar, Slovenia _____ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. David _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/963806d8/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 10:20:26 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:20:26 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <9557520E-CE9E-4D6F-803B-F6426F077BD3@earthlink.net> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <988A8939CAF04E488F22F76930C5810E@DenisePC> <9557520E-CE9E-4D6F-803B-F6426F077BD3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D4308EA.4030904@gmail.com> On 27/01/11 1:43 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > Someone undoubtedly already has published > an article on names in Cefalu, Oh, you looked it up first, right! ;) Our most recently ILDS President Don Kaczvinsky is just the man for the job: Kaczvinsky, Donald P. "Durrell's The Dark Labyrinth." /The Explicator/ 46.3 (1988): 42-44. For what it's worth, I also quite like Jay Brigham's article. He taught this book as well, and I was given his lecture notes if anyone is interested. Brigham, James A. "Initiatory Experience in The Dark Labyrinth." /Deus Loci: The Lawrence Durrell Quarterly/ 7.5 (1984): 19-29. Sorry if this is just dropping the citations, but I think that was the request... Best, James -- --------------------------------------- James Gifford, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of English and University Core Director School of English, Philosophy and Humanities University College: Arts, Sciences, Professional Studies Fairleigh Dickinson University, Vancouver Campus Voice: 604-648-4476 Fax: 604-648-4489 E-mail: gifford at fdu.edu http://alpha.fdu.edu/~jgifford 842 Cambie Street Vancouver, BC V6B 2P6 Canada From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 11:28:50 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:28:50 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> Message-ID: <4D4318F2.1040407@gmail.com> Hello all, For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of items to add to it still... Best, James From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 12:00:05 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:00:05 -0800 Subject: [ilds] THANKS! In-Reply-To: <4D420F16.4010504@interdesign.fr> References: <4D420F16.4010504@interdesign.fr> Message-ID: <4D432045.1070609@gmail.com> Hi Marc, On 27/01/11 4:34 PM, Marc Piel wrote: > what London meeting????????? The 15th conference of the International Lawrence Durrell Society will take place in London, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 to Monday, 18 June 2012 (at Goodenough College and the British Library). These are lovely locations, and we're looking forward to an excellent centenary event. I think it has been mentioned a few times on the listserv, but the official Call for Papers will be released soon. ILDS members will see it on the new membership directory that's about to go out. Charles Sligh is the most current on the details, but the Executive Board meeting in Louisville will iron out what needs to be done before the formal call is issued. Save the date! Cheers, James From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 11:55:05 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:55:05 -0800 Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth In-Reply-To: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> Message-ID: Meta, Thanks for picking up on this important topic/novel. Re Durrell's choice of personal names in The Dark Labyrinth, the first consideration is that he himself called the novel an "extended morality" (Durrell-Miller Letters, 1962, 1963, p. 201), i.e., an allegory. And allegories, as you know, personify ideas. The big examples of that form, in English, are Spenser's Faerie Queene and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. These are both Renaissance works, early and late, so once again we have Durrell harkening back to the great period of English lit. In this regard, the novel's most interesting character, Campion, is also the name of a Renaissance medical doctor and poet, Thomas Campion (1567-1620). Durrell's usage of names fits the allegorical tradition. He also does this, however, elsewhere in his fiction, and I'd venture to say that the names of Durrell's characters most always mean something special They are rarely, if ever, arbitrary. It's useful to recall that Durrell himself considered going into the medical profession and instead became a poet. Thus, Campion is a good alter ego for the author himself. I agree that the "Roof of the World" chapter in The Dark Labyrinth is one of the best Durrell ever wrote. He pulls it off, writing about a Utopian place, and succeeds where James Hilton in Lost Horizon does not succeed in describing his Shangri-La. Hilton's Utopia is mawkish, Durrell's is not. Of course, Durrell's mountaintop realm is very Romantic, but the irony is Romantic too, the sad self-consciousness that forces the narrator to conclude, "The roof of the world did not really exist, except in their own imaginations." That statement echoes again and again throughout Durrell's oeuvre. It reminds me that repetitive "Boum" in Forster's Marabar caves. Much remains to be talked about in this extraordinary novel. On a personal note, when I first read it in 1962, I recall that when Fearmax meets his fate in the labyrinth, at the end of "In the Darkness," I was terrified. Durrell can tell a good horror story. Durrell's terror, however, later turns into a kind of Romantic Irony. Best wishes on your translation into Slovenian. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:58 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > Meta Cerar, > Slovenia > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >> >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >> >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. >> >> David >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/d8b9a62a/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 12:10:33 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:10:33 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Revolt of Aphrodite In-Reply-To: <66FABF6C-5533-447D-B898-542AACE0C5EE@earthlink.net> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <66FABF6C-5533-447D-B898-542AACE0C5EE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D4322B9.4040002@gmail.com> I agree that /Revolt/ is much overlooked, and I see it as remarkably contemporary today. As for scoffing at Durrell's "middlebrow" works, there's been a steady stream of critical work done -- I don't think any of the academics scoff. Instead, I think they're often just more difficult to get (they've been in & out of print and often appeared first through small presses rather than Faber), and they haven't had the same spotlight as his major books. As for filthy lucre, I could see that for /White Eagles/ (though still an interesting work), but /Cefalu/ first appeared through the Poetry London imprint, which certainly wouldn't have earned Durrell a great deal, especially with Tambimuttu at the helm... Jan Morris had high praise for /Sicilian Carousel/ as well: Morris, Jan. "Durrell - on a Tourist Bus?" /Encounter/ 49.3 (September 1977): 77-79. The discussion of art in /Cefalu/ is fascinating as well, at least as a revelation of Durrell's interests and readings. Best, James On 27/01/11 10:47 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > Reading /Aphrodite's Revolt,/ or periphrasis of same, is a good idea. > Long overdue, for me, anyway. Think I'll take Grove up on this. Ken's > comment about the Greek island books (which I'd expand to include Sicily > and the Tyrrhenian Sea) bears serious consideration. David Green > deserves full credit for turning our eyes to the islands ("no tongue: > all eyes: be silent"). Undoubtedly, Durrell's "potboilers" were done for > "filthy lucre," but I find them most interesting and provocative. > Durrell, for all his protean productivity, was probably one of Isaiah > Berlin's "hedgehogs," more of a possessed Dostoevsky than a foxy > Tolstoy. That's to say, he was a man of just a few obsessions (and > demons), and these got continually reworked and replayed throughout his > /oeuvre/. So, I find it instructive to uncover these themes and tropes > in his self-acknowledged "minor" works. E.g., /The Dark Labyrinth, White > Eagles over Serbia,/ and /Sicilian Carousel./ I sense these are often > scoffed at, but I think this view mistaken ? highbrow priggishness. To > emphasize what I said before, authors don't always know what they doing, > and whether Durrell knew it or not, his potboilers seem to me as > revealing (and probably at least as enjoyable) as his "serious" work > intended "for all time." > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > wrote: > >> I've enjoyed the responses to David's post, but in my case my silence >> simply means that I'm busy and haven't had much to say. There are a >> couple of items about Norman Douglas and Patrick Leigh Fermor that >> I'll pass on as soon as I can put a few coherent paragraphs together, >> but in the meantime I'll second Ken's positive comment about The Greek >> Islands. And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! >> They're the most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and >> deserve more attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a >> chapter-by-chapter analysis of them, but perhaps someone else could >> this summer. I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc >> describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ken Gammage >> Sent: Jan 25, 2011 5:29 PM >> To: Denise Tart & David Green, "ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> " >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the >> listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports >> your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that >> resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from >> Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for >> the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often >> beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often >> responding directly and privately to the poster without >> necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes >> contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find >> this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) >> You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the >> artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of >> disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like >> Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the >> last page of my Italy website:www.travelogorrhea.com >> >> Viva Durrell! >> Kennedy Gammage >> ken.gammage at directed.com >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >> Behalf Of*Denise Tart & David Green >> *Sent:*Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM >> *To:*Durrel;DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU >> >> *Subject:*[ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other >> contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in >> Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to >> ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of >> Durrell and his works? >> >> There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious >> discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me >> and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared >> without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far >> between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to >> academic journals. >> There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony >> Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that >> she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. >> Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the >> only member to publicly respond. >> Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no >> longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy >> about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an >> aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in >> endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the >> cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer >> to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in >> their own right? >> Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who >> used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a >> terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at >> the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and >> works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? >> Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, >> "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" >> Yours, somewhat puzzled, >> David Green >> 16 William Street >> Marrickville NSW 2204 >> Australia >> >> This email may contain confidential and/or privileged >> information. It is intended only for the person or persons to >> whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or >> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or >> telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 12:35:52 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:35:52 -0800 Subject: [ilds] OMG 17 - London In-Reply-To: <4D4322B9.4040002@gmail.com> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <66FABF6C-5533-447D-B898-542AACE0C5EE@earthlink.net> <4D4322B9.4040002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D4328A8.8040003@gmail.com> I should add, I typed in "15" by accident, thinking back to the Paris conference. (head hung in shame). London will be the 17th On Miracle Ground, offering us a lucky prime number (and a Fermat Prime at that!). Please create a substantial buzz in anticipation of the formal announcements! Best, James From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri Jan 28 12:21:09 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:21:09 +1100 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> Message-ID: <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> Meta, thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) etc etc we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? David Green Terra Australis Incognito From: Meta Cerar Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian - to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) - and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, Meta Cerar, Slovenia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. David _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/2e2e39f8/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 13:21:01 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:21:01 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! Let's plan for it this summer. I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): "which satisfied the law." "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, from myself to myself" "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no contractual obligations." "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even though Rome burns." I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead on their word and sociability. The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s face." I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open poetics) are present here. At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? Best, James From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 13:20:13 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:20:13 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Names In-Reply-To: <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> Message-ID: <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > Meta, > > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. > > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > > etc etc > > we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > > David Green > Terra Australis Incognito > > From: Meta Cerar > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > Meta Cerar, > Slovenia > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >> >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >> >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. >> >> David >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/95341739/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 13:26:53 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:26:53 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Names In-Reply-To: <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D43349D.7020301@gmail.com> Hi Bruce, Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but I can't recall where... Best, James On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just > have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, > however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's > "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd > mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this > applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the > ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be > Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> Meta, >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have >> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the >> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes >> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes >> through in the Marine Venus. >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist >> rebel type >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain >> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >> etc etc >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a >> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west >> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to >> them. >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example >> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >> David Green >> Terra Australis Incognito >> >> *From:*Meta Cerar >> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, >> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends >> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most >> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list >> members wrote recently. >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or >> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently >> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the >> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to >> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on >> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. >> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci >> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar >> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a >> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the >> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and >> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly >> neglected to my great disappointment. >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >> Meta Cerar, >> Slovenia >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine >> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in >> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD >> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: >> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. >> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >> Bruce >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" >> > wrote: >> >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's >>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >>> >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of >>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern >>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them >>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there >>> something 18th century about it. >>> David > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 13:33:50 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:33:50 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Names In-Reply-To: <4D43349D.7020301@gmail.com> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <4D43349D.7020301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19F230A3-2799-4CC4-B1FA-A16EBB742E4B@earthlink.net> Thanks. That confirms the linkage. It's amazing how saturated Durrell was in Renaissance English. He probably dreamed in blank verse. BR On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:26 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when > talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but > I can't recall where... > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just >> have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, >> however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's >> "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd >> mind, probably refers to more than coins. >> >> *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's >> Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this >> applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the >> ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be >> Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >>> Meta, >>> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have >>> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the >>> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes >>> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes >>> through in the Marine Venus. >>> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >>> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >>> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist >>> rebel type >>> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >>> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain >>> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >>> etc etc >>> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a >>> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west >>> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to >>> them. >>> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example >>> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >>> David Green >>> Terra Australis Incognito >>> >>> *From:*Meta Cerar >>> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >>> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >>> >>> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, >>> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends >>> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most >>> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list >>> members wrote recently. >>> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or >>> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently >>> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the >>> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to >>> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. >>> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on >>> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. >>> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci >>> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar >>> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. >>> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a >>> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the >>> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and >>> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly >>> neglected to my great disappointment. >>> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >>> Meta Cerar, >>> Slovenia >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >>> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >>> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine >>> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >>> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>> >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >>> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in >>> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD >>> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: >>> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. >>> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >>> Bruce >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's >>>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >>>> >>>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of >>>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern >>>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >>>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them >>>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there >>>> something 18th century about it. >>>> David >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From zahlan at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 13:55:10 2011 From: zahlan at earthlink.net (Anne R Zahlan) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:55:10 -0500 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <4D4318F2.1040407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A956F8BADFF4A439E45C75187D5EB94@annezahlan1> Hi Jamie: Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and careful grad student. (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. Love, Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Gifford" To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > Hello all, > > For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated > since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: > > http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm > > Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of > items to add to it still... > > Best, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 14:35:44 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:35:44 -0800 Subject: [ilds] online bibliography In-Reply-To: <5A956F8BADFF4A439E45C75187D5EB94@annezahlan1> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <4D4318F2.1040407@gmail.com> <5A956F8BADFF4A439E45C75187D5EB94@annezahlan1> Message-ID: <4D4344C0.2030000@gmail.com> Hi Anne, Good to hear from you! For everyone on the list, please consider this an open call for help with the online bibliography. James Clawson and Grove Koger have volunteered (at the last conference) to get involved, but I do suspect that maintaining an online bibliography will necessitate a level of technical expertise and free time that the three of us will find challenging... Grove is doing admirable work keeping the print bibliography going in /Deus Loci/ as the formal record, but there's a lot of secondary criticism out there still, especially in other languages. I first launched the online bibliography as a way of making such work easily available in a searchable format. That creative commons idea would still be my preference -- what say you all? Proprietary systems are easy to transfer to (RefWorks), but then they're proprietary and hard to open up publicly. Does anyone have experience with RefShare? Alternatively, the bibliography is already available (in a rough form) in BibTex, which is easy to update and is compatible with almost any citation management software, including many OpenSource and free applications. As I noted in the first launch, "The Koger-MacNiven Bibliography has been particularly useful, and Susan MacNiven's encouragement has been greatly appreciated. Other major bibliographers include Cecil L. Peaden, Susan Vander Closter, James Brigham, and Alan G. Thomas." Those are all still excellent resources. Best, James On 28/01/11 1:55 PM, Anne R Zahlan wrote: > Hi Jamie: > > Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site > etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and > careful grad student. > > (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) > > Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. > > Love, > > Anne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Gifford" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > >> Hello all, >> >> For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated >> since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: >> >> http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm >> >> Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of >> items to add to it still... >> >> Best, >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 14:38:19 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:38:19 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F@earthlink.net> James, Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of EB, I'll check it for you. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > Let's plan for it this summer. > > I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > "which satisfied the law." > > "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > from myself to myself" > > "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > contractual obligations." > > "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > though Rome burns." > > I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > on their word and sociability. > > The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > face." > > I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > poetics) are present here. > > At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > Best, > James > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/6cffe788/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 14:50:12 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:50:12 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th In-Reply-To: <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F@earthlink.net> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D434824.1090100@gmail.com> Hi Bruce, Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"). As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the comparison between past editions. I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. Thanks! James On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com >> wrote: >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. >> >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >> Let's plan for it this summer. >> >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. >> >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): >> >> "which satisfied the law." >> >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >> from myself to myself" >> >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >> contractual obligations." >> >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >> though Rome burns." >> >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >> on their word and sociability. >> >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: >> >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." >> >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >> >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >> >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >> face." >> >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >> poetics) are present here. >> >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? >> >> Best, >> James >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From billyapt at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 15:04:17 2011 From: billyapt at gmail.com (William Apt) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:04:17 -0800 Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio Message-ID: Dear all: I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. -- WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, Ste 205 Austin TX 78746 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/41868c41/attachment.html From gkoger at mindspring.com Fri Jan 28 15:10:26 2011 From: gkoger at mindspring.com (gkoger at mindspring.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:10:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Message-ID: <28880300.1296256226985.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/4378b9f5/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 15:26:15 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:26:15 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th In-Reply-To: <4D434824.1090100@gmail.com> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F@earthlink.net> <4D434824.1090100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19707863-1F2E-4B09-9EB6-EBF117CEF73B@earthlink.net> James, Yes, the EB 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> James, >> >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >>> >>> >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >>> >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >>> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/1e2ac9a9/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 15:42:39 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:42:39 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th In-Reply-To: <19707863-1F2E-4B09-9EB6-EBF117CEF73B@earthlink.net> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F@earthlink.net> <4D434824.1090100@gmail.com> <19707863-1F2E-4B09-9EB6-EBF117CEF73B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D43546F.7070904@gmail.com> Hi Bruce, Alas, *I* don't have the 14th edition, just access to the 11th... That said, a quick check in Google Books has Stephen Lukes remarking on Kropotkin's entry on Anarchism and Mutual Aid with a quotation that matches verbatim the 11th edition, but Lukes' citation is very clearly to the 1929-30 vol. 1 14th edition 9p. 873). I think that solves the mystery. Durrell's personal copy of the 14th edition would have carried at least a version of Kropotkin's 1905 entry for the 11th edition. I admire Lukes' work, so I'll trust it until I can check a 14h edition copy in the stacks. But, would that Zeno reference have stuck, if Durrell had even read it, more than 20 years later? Dunno, but it does open a window of possibility. Thanks for the help! And sorry to bore the rest of y'all -- any takers on the /Revolt/ suggestions? Best, James On 28/01/11 3:26 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > Yes, the /EB/ 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you > quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and > "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> Hi Bruce, >> >> Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 >> (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man >> Under Socialism"). >> >> As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was >> largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made >> cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I >> can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the >> comparison between past editions. >> >> I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. >> >> Thanks! >> James >> >> On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> James, >>> >>> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. >>> >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >>>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >>>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >>>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >>>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >>>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >>>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >>>> >>>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >>>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >>>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >>>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >>>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >>>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >>>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >>>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >>>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >>>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >>>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >>>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri Jan 28 15:44:40 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:44:40 +1100 Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB@DenisePC> William, I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? David Green From: William Apt Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio Dear all: I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. -- WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, Ste 205 Austin TX 78746 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/ed6e4af7/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 16:01:26 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:01:26 -0800 Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio In-Reply-To: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB@DenisePC> References: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB@DenisePC> Message-ID: <4D4358D6.1090605@gmail.com> Hi David, Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. Best, James On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > William, > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to > you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does > speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who > as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as > his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence > particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness > of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to > him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is > currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > David Green > > *From:* William Apt > *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > Dear all: > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my > taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's > book, and whether it is worthwhile? > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except > to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From dtart at bigpond.net.au Fri Jan 28 16:35:04 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:35:04 +1100 Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio In-Reply-To: <4D4358D6.1090605@gmail.com> References: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB@DenisePC> <4D4358D6.1090605@gmail.com> Message-ID: James, I am noting that I have the revised edition, much thumbed. Yes, Bowker is a sharp writer but writing a biography of any complex 'genius' would be hard task as I am sure Michael Haag has discovered, especially if you want to go beyond a chronicle into a analysis of motive, muse, the meaning of self in relation to the world. Things are bound to slip. That said I enjoy biographies as much or more sometimes than the subjects own writings. Have been waiting for old Haag's biog for a while - in fact I'm getting that 'when's it going to be wine o'clock feeling if'n you take my meaning? David Whitewine btw, am hoping to get sorted a decent look at Durrell's islomania; form to be determined. -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Gifford" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:01 AM To: Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > Hi David, > > Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, > it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first > and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more > speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that > MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it > took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. > > Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not > without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> William, >> I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to >> you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does >> speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who >> as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as >> his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence >> particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness >> of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to >> him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is >> currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? >> David Green >> >> *From:* William Apt >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM >> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio >> >> Dear all: >> I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather >> and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent >> narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary >> obligations well: it is a most tactful book. >> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because >> it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had >> recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my >> taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's >> book, and whether it is worthwhile? >> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why >> he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except >> to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. >> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. >> Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. >> >> -- >> WILLIAM APT >> Attorney at Law >> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, >> Ste 205 >> Austin TX 78746 >> 512/708-8300 >> 512/708-8011 FAX >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 16:53:28 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:53:28 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce In-Reply-To: References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D436508.1030104@gmail.com> Hi Bruce, Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered ones. >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real >> issue. > > 1. I do. > >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. > > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how > energetically expressed. Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than inextricable differences. I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps should have noted to joke overtly. ;) >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented open discourse. It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence >>> Durrell's life and work. >> >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, > > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the >> opposite), and I >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. > > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic > queries made public? I'd like to see them. I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any chance of being of public interest. > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled > hook & bait: [that's me] > >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] > > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... > > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in > considerable detail. I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's Nazi ties would suggest. Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' > Negative Capability? > > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' masks. > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... > > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second guess > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. > > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980). Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? > > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then > "expiate" is exactly the right word. Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide some skeletons as well... Best, James From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 17:40:12 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:40:12 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D436FFC.1080302@gmail.com> As always, Ilyas, you have a keen eye and generous description of the things it spies. All apologies for my provincially dull skirmishes with Bruce, but at least we're keeping our blades dull as well. Hopefully this recent jump in activity on the list will return us to the "vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur enthusiast." As for Charles, > Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? > Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke > booke I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll have to try his cell... Best, James On 26/01/11 2:14 AM, Ilyas Khan wrote: > Ken, > > You make the key point in my view. I am active (and find tremendously > rewarding) my participation as ?poster? and ?lurker? on a number of > other such venues, and the key difference is that despite much hand > wringing on this listserv, there is an incredible tendency towards > clique-ishness, made all the more provincially dull by the continuation > of long standing personal skirmishes that the vast majority of us do not > understand or appreciate. > > My own attitude has been, therefore, to focus on two things. Firstly, my > own love of LD means that I usually find nuggets here, but I also have > drifted towards a personal reply instead of a reply to the forum as a > whole. Secondly, when the usual small clique start squabbling or cannot > see the impact of their language on others, I simply ignore them and > enjoy the underlying conversation from which I have learnt so much. At > times people such as James and Charles have tried to bring the > conversation back to the ?relevant?, but even they, I think, sometimes > tire of the same old repetition. > > There is a message in reply to David?s post that also raises the issue > of how some academics have been teased off this listserv from posting > stuff that is too academic. I agree that if other venues can maintain a > vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur > enthusiast, then so can we. > > On that basis therefore, David, I for one will try to become more > active. I value this little part of my life, and unless we all step upto > the plate, we have only ourselves to blame. Having made my points above, > I am hoping I can become one of the non-scholarly or non-academic > participants who has an opinion and a constructive point of view. > > Thanks > > > > > On 26/01/2011 00:29, "Ken Gammage" wrote: > > Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the > listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports your > argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in > detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and > James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several > years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many > thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and > privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to > publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The > Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated > strictly by lucre.) > You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery > cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my > poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please > see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy > website: www.travelogorrhea.com > > Viva Durrell! > > Kennedy Gammage > ken.gammage at directed.com > > > > *From:* ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] *On Behalf Of *Denise Tart & > David Green > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > *To:* Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > *Subject:* [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other > contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in > Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to > ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of > Durrell and his works? > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious > discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and > some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared > without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far > between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to > academic journals. > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony > Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she > can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless > some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only > member to publicly respond. > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no > longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy > about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an > aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in > endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the > cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to > items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own > right? > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who > used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal > illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment > to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the > Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, > "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > David Green > > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > Australia > > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 20:00:12 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:00:12 -0800 Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio In-Reply-To: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB@DenisePC> References: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB@DenisePC> Message-ID: I haven't read MacNiven in toto but agree with David's take on Bowker. I am not convinced, however, with Bowker's attempt to rationalize Durrell's "creative madness," especially with respect to his occasional treatment of his wives, sometimes brutally. BR On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > William, > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > > David Green > > From: William Apt > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/a3dc8a64/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 20:04:14 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:04:14 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <4D436FFC.1080302@gmail.com> References: <4D436FFC.1080302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4850D6A6-F241-4278-BAD7-D7892AD32434@earthlink.net> The "Justine ts?" The Justine type script? Whereas Charles is, I wish him well. BR On Jan 28, 2011, at 5:40 PM, James Gifford wrote: > As for Charles, > >> Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? >> Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke >> booke > > I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll > have to try his cell... > > Best, > James > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/433eac65/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 20:20:47 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:20:47 -0800 Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill, Any attempt to write a biography of Lawrence Durrell is a mind-boggling enterprise, both in terms of the complexity of the man himself and the huge amount of material required to absorb and analyze. He was definitely a genius but also a very flawed one, which is probably the way we want our geniuses to be. It was a pleasure to offer you the little assistance I could. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:04 PM, William Apt wrote: > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Sat Jan 29 00:03:39 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:03:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] Names In-Reply-To: <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Wasn't me! RP ________________________________ From: Bruce Redwine To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM Subject: [ilds] Names Pursewarden. ?Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. ?Or maybe I?just?have a dirty mind. ?Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. ?The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. ?Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. Mountolive. ?New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? ?Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or?passions?to deal with. ?This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. ?Still, a good name. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: Meta, >? >thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to >find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. >insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful >island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. >? >To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >? >Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type >Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia >(Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >? >etc etc >? >we recall in 18th century? English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby >being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of >rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. >? >I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) >or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >? >David Green >Terra Australis Incognito > > >From:?Meta Cerar >Sent:?Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > >Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN >for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the >World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire >opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. >? >If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark >Labyrinth ?names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark >Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth >(February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of >the book. >? >I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this >particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as >a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's >influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know >if it's worth reading. >? >BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future >Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean >but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? >in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great >disappointment. >? >Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >? >Meta Cerar, >Slovenia >? > ________________________________ >From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf >Of?Bruce Redwine >Sent:?Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >To:?Denise Tart & David Green;?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >? >Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed >throughout Durrell's fiction. ?My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as >Shakespeare did his low-life characters: ? Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, >Pistol, etc. ?People are their names. ?Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >? >? >Bruce > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" >wrote: >I especially recommend the?early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken >speech in front of the Parthenon.?Grove >> >>It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's >>speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and >>the? souther classical Parthenon. >>? >>btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by?them when >>reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century >>about it. >>? >>David >>? >>? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/d513fa98/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Sat Jan 29 00:18:32 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:18:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th In-Reply-To: <4D434824.1090100@gmail.com> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F@earthlink.net> <4D434824.1090100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <691071.26582.qm@web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: Abnormal Psychology Abraxas Almanac Archimedes Arrhenius Asia Astrology Astronomy Calendar (Central America - May) (Chronology - Maya) Circle Comparative Ethics Confucius Cone Constellation Cosmogony Egypt Equation of Time Geodesy Geometry (and Line Geometry) Indian Philosophy Infinity Lhasa Limit Mayan Calendar Mayan Culture Menstruation Nashe Number & Numerals Observatory Palmistry Ptolemy Serpents Sphere Stoics Zero Tibet Tides Time ----- Original Message ---- From: James Gifford To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th Hi Bruce, Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"). As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made cuts to existing entries.? If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!? I can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the comparison between past editions. I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. Thanks! James On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com >> wrote: >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. >> >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >> Let's plan for it this summer. >> >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. >> >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): >> >> "which satisfied the law." >> >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >> from myself to myself" >> >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >> contractual obligations." >> >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >> though Rome burns." >> >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >> on their word and sociability. >> >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: >> >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." >> >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >> >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >> >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >> face." >> >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >> poetics) are present here. >> >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? >> >> Best, >> James >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 29 08:37:01 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:37:01 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Names In-Reply-To: <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. BR On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > Wasn't me! RP > > From: Bruce Redwine > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM > Subject: [ilds] Names > > Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> Meta, >> >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. >> >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >> >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >> >> etc etc >> >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. >> >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >> >> David Green >> Terra Australis Incognito >> >> From: Meta Cerar >> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. >> >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. >> >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. >> >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. >> >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >> >> Meta Cerar, >> Slovenia >> >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >> To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >> >> >> Bruce >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: >> >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >>> >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >>> >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. >>> >>> David >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/47524b25/attachment.html From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 29 09:06:04 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 09:06:04 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th In-Reply-To: <691071.26582.qm@web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <6017742.1296140261898.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D43333D.9070101@gmail.com> <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F@earthlink.net> <4D434824.1090100@gmail.com> <691071.26582.qm@web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks. Fascinating. He's plotting his literary future. Note the interest in space and time. The big interest in the Maya seems strange but probably has to do with their calendar and time. I haven't checked the 11th, but when the 11th and 14th were published, their code had not been broken into, and the Maya were thought to be peaceful and Arcadian. Perhaps a jungle version of the Roof of the World, if you will. After the glyphs were deciphered, along with extensive archaeology, it was discovered they were just the opposite ? highly warlike and bloodthirsty. Mel Gibson's Apocalypto is not far from the truth. It might be a good exercise for some energetic graduate student to read all these articles and then compare them with Durrell's oeuvre. Surely worth an article or two. Bruce On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:18 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: > > Abnormal Psychology > Abraxas > Almanac > Archimedes > Arrhenius > Asia > Astrology > Astronomy > Calendar > (Central America - May) > (Chronology - Maya) > Circle > Comparative Ethics > Confucius > Cone > Constellation > Cosmogony > Egypt > Equation of Time > Geodesy > Geometry (and Line Geometry) > Indian Philosophy > Infinity > Lhasa > Limit > Mayan Calendar > Mayan Culture > Menstruation > Nashe > Number & Numerals > Observatory > Palmistry > Ptolemy > Serpents > Sphere > Stoics > Zero > Tibet > Tides > Time > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: James Gifford > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> James, >> >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >> >>> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com >>> wrote: >>>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >>>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >>>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >>>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. >>> >>> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >>> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >>> Let's plan for it this summer. >>> >>> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >>> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >>> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. >>> >>> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >>> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >>> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >>> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >>> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >>> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >>> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): >>> >>> "which satisfied the law." >>> >>> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. >>> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >>> from myself to myself" >>> >>> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >>> contractual obligations." >>> >>> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >>> though Rome burns." >>> >>> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >>> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >>> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >>> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >>> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >>> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >>> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >>> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >>> on their word and sociability. >>> >>> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: >>> >>> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >>> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." >>> >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >>> >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >>> >>> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >>> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >>> face." >>> >>> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >>> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >>> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >>> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >>> poetics) are present here. >>> >>> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >>> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? >>> >>> Best, >>> James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/4bc4c895/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 10:27:22 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:27:22 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > >> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >> >> Wasn't me! RP >> >>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after those purse strings for a long time! Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this regard across Durrell's works over time. Cheers, James From gkoger at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 10:31:47 2011 From: gkoger at mindspring.com (gkoger at mindspring.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:31:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Message-ID: <24725023.1296325907489.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> James, Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. Aren't the books all about contradictions? Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach would be another reason to look forward to summer! Grove -----Original Message----- >From: James Gifford >Sent: Jan 28, 2011 2:21 PM >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >Let's plan for it this summer. > >I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >"which satisfied the law." > >"the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >from myself to myself" > >"People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >contractual obligations." > >"we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >though Rome burns." > >I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >on their word and sociability. > >The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > >"Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >"The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >[...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >face." > >I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >poetics) are present here. > >At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >Best, >James >_______________________________________________ >ILDS mailing list >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 11:29:21 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:29:21 -0800 Subject: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list In-Reply-To: <24725023.1296325907489.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24725023.1296325907489.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D446A91.4070105@gmail.com> Hi Grove, Let's consider this an aim for late April/May? Unless, of course, there's a chorus from the listserv to get started right away... I'd agree about the Firm being more than simply a modern institution in the books -- I suppose my curiosity relates to the potential for LD to be talking about coercive authority in that 1968 moment (which Don Kacz has noted before). Just what *is* the Firm? I'm in the midst of a long project relating to poetry networks in the 1930s and 40s that differ from the High Modernists and Auden group by virtue of antiauthoritarian politics (or Herbert Read's politics of the unpolitical), and Durrell's in there though he's peripheral. That is certainly shaping my readerly perspective at the moment {winks eye at Bruce}, but it seems surprisingly easy to develop that perspective. Cheers, James On 29/01/11 10:31 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > James, > > Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last > reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm > has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as > well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central > situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. > Aren't the books all about contradictions? > > Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach > would be another reason to look forward to summer! > > Grove From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 29 11:28:48 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:28:48 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women on this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile behavior. BR Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >> >>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>> >>> Wasn't me! RP >>> >>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this > > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as > well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after > those purse strings for a long time! > > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and > it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this > regard across Durrell's works over time. > > Cheers, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 12:09:37 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:09:37 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D447401.80306@gmail.com> Well, the OED aligns "purse" with male genitals, so I don't think it's misogynistic, though there's a line of misogyny in Durrell's works (a line that runs in parallel to other diverse or even contradictory lines). As for male infantile behavior, it's certainly a component -- LD's notebooks are full of such jokes (the "tunc" wordplay in /Revolt/, etc.). I think there's a fine distinction between recognizing the joke and making it though... We do, however, have a relatively low number of contributions from female listmembers (of whom there are many), so I wonder if a discomfort exists. The Woolf and HD lists certainly have a preponderance of female contributions. Certainly a large number of the critical articles on Durrell are written by women, so it seems plausible women are made to feel less comfortable on the listserv, which I would hope we could change if it's the case! Comments? Suggestions? On list or off, both are welcome. Best, James On 29/01/11 11:28 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology > for Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us > have dirty minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I > wonder if the women on this List would consider that misogyny or > would dismiss it as male infantile behavior. > > BR > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James > Gifford wrote: > >> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >>> >>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>>> >>>> Wasn't me! RP >>>> >>>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out >>>>> that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. >>>>> Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm >>>>> this >> >> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said >> it: Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this >> point as well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've >> been after those purse strings for a long time! >> >> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill >> noted, and it appears in the OED with this association. I'm >> intrigued to note that the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in >> relation to the mouth in /Pied Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, >> not just pursing one's lips). I wonder if a collocation would turn >> up interesting patterns in this regard across Durrell's works over >> time. >> >> Cheers, James From william.godshalk at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 13:29:17 2011 From: william.godshalk at gmail.com (William Godshalk) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:29:17 -0500 Subject: [ilds] Names In-Reply-To: <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Judas was the purse warden for Jesus's little group. Also the beggar in the tarot deck has been identified as a purse warden. In early modern slang, a purse is a scrotum as well as a vagina and a prophylactic sheath. For which, see Gordon Williams dictionary of sexual language. A gem of a book. On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > > > BR > > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > > Wasn't me! RP > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bruce Redwine > *To:* Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > *Cc:* Bruce Redwine > *Sent:* Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM > *Subject:* [ilds] Names > > *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have > a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, > however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who > steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, > probably refers to more than coins. > > *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies > to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the *Quartet* the > ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be > Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Meta, > > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been > able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in > Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most > beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine > Venus. > > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel > type > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia > (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > > etc etc > > we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a > land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money > guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > > David Green > Terra Australis Incognito > > *From:* Meta Cerar > *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > *Subject:* Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like > TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the > Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in > Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark > Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating > Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of > his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into > the preface of the book. > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this > particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it > as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's > influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me > know if it's worth reading. > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future > Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the > ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected > to my great disappointment. > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > Meta Cerar, > Slovenia > > ------------------------------ > *From:* ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] *On > Behalf Of *Bruce Redwine > *Sent:* Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > *To:* Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > *Subject:* Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, > indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose > them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll > Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of > fright? > > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > > It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic > Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > > btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when > reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th > century about it. > > David > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/3134e176/attachment.html From william.godshalk at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 13:54:29 2011 From: william.godshalk at gmail.com (William Godshalk) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:54:29 -0500 Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce In-Reply-To: <4D436508.1030104@gmail.com> References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> <4D436508.1030104@gmail.com> Message-ID: James, I'm puzzled. What was I supposed to be doing -- comparing Middleton with Durrell? That's still on the back burner of my mind -- and if no one else does, I will in the next year write it up. Or were you thinking of something else? You keyboard faster than I read (and think). Bill On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let > others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered > ones. > > >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about > >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real > >> issue. > > > > 1. I do. > > > >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the > >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. > > > > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what > > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do > > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how > > energetically expressed. > > Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" > are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I > consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than > inextricable differences. > > I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my > moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from > being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a > public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! > > >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > > > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence > > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its > > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the > > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. > > I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an > occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps > should have noted to joke overtly. ;) > > >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and > >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an > >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of > >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. > >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > > > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators > > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the > > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and > > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those > > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And > > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary > > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then > > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a > > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. > > I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and > keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be > a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to > consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented > open discourse. > > It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling > emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same > token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the > cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few > occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my > hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). > > The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy > asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not > fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome > such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. > > >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > >>> Durrell's life and work. > >> > >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, > > > > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. > > I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm > certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to > light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to > some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements > there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. > > That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. > Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the > points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives > on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that > we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for > incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads > to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. > > An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. > Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his > personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as > well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal > with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has > accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable > disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations > against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock > journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. > > >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the > >> opposite), and I > >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. > > > > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators > > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and > > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. > > Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the > road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... > > >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I > >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic > > queries made public? I'd like to see them. > > I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, > etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any > chance of being of public interest. > > > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. > > Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our > animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. > > > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled > > hook & bait: [that's me] > > > >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few > >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] > > > > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I > > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in > > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or > > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... > > > > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de > > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time > > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid > > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in > > considerable detail. > > I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that > distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly > living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had > rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I > hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the > imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, > which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not > saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's > Nazi ties would suggest. > > Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. > Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of > skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but > not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. > > > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the > > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' > > Negative Capability? > > > > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. > > I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. > What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always > going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant > complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' > masks. > > > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's > > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for > > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're > > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... > > > > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." > > Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out > to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at > instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described > events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the > gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where > the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area > (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally > achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being > myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are > invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... > > > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second > guess > > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously > > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. > > > > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing > > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the > > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, > > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most > > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not > > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank > > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980). > > Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a > matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine > the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) > suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence > Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical > matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, > contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked > interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive > matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the > book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) > > But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to > keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. > > > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is > > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? > > > > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. > > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then > > "expiate" is exactly the right word. > > Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence > "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) > > You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you > mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and > Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't > think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? > Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will > lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the > Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide > some skeletons as well... > > Best, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/52690d59/attachment.html From dtart at bigpond.net.au Sat Jan 29 12:24:33 2011 From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 07:24:33 +1100 Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio In-Reply-To: References: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB@DenisePC> Message-ID: <6DE0E44EC01A4BC2BB0A5F9D95C58EF0@DenisePC> Bruce, Not sure Bowker himself is convinced of the 'creative madnes's idea. He cites it but are we left to our own view of this? artist have used a number of terms to offset poor behaviour. look how rude Campion the artist is in Dark Labyrinth. I don't fall for it. Getting drunk and hitting women is poor conduct whether you are a truck driver or a famous writer. Interviews with Larry tend to show that he was far more workmanlike a writer than the 'creative madness' idea suggests. He got up early and got on with it - "like chopping wood". Now I must get a copy of Revolt of Aphrodite and honour monsieur Gifford's idea of engendering some commentaries on these neglected works. David Whitewine From: Bruce Redwine Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 3:00 PM To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio I haven't read MacNiven in toto but agree with David's take on Bowker. I am not convinced, however, with Bowker's attempt to rationalize Durrell's "creative madness," especially with respect to his occasional treatment of his wives, sometimes brutally. BR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110130/ffae7a68/attachment.html From gkoger at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 13:27:15 2011 From: gkoger at mindspring.com (gkoger at mindspring.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 14:27:15 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio Message-ID: <7906169.1296336436175.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> James, I hadn't been aware of the changes you mention in the Bowker bio. Are they at all significant? Thanks. Grove -----Original Message----- >From: James Gifford >Sent: Jan 28, 2011 5:01 PM >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > >Hi David, > >Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, >it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first >and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more >speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that >MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it >took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. > >Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not >without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. > >Best, >James > >On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> William, >> I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to >> you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does >> speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who >> as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as >> his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence >> particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness >> of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to >> him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is >> currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? >> David Green >> >> *From:* William Apt >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM >> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio >> >> Dear all: >> I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather >> and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent >> narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary >> obligations well: it is a most tactful book. >> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because >> it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had >> recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my >> taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's >> book, and whether it is worthwhile? >> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why >> he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except >> to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. >> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. >> Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. >> >> -- >> WILLIAM APT >> Attorney at Law >> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, >> Ste 205 >> Austin TX 78746 >> 512/708-8300 >> 512/708-8011 FAX >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >_______________________________________________ >ILDS mailing list >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Sat Jan 29 13:32:53 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:32:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> In my participation in the LD documentary in 1998 (BBC) I did suggest that 'Cunegonde' was a play on 'Cune' = cunt and 'gonde' = french for 'hinge'. And yes, there is the Candide con(sic) nection but I didn't raise (sic) this in the tv prog. RP ----- Original Message ---- From: Bruce Redwine To: "gifford at fdu.edu" ; "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:28:48 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse Congratulations!? RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety.? So at least three of us have dirty minds.? Durrell does encourage this kind of research.? I wonder if the women on this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile behavior. BR Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >> >>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>> >>> Wasn't me! RP >>> >>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this > > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400.? AJ French chimed in on this point as > well, and Bruce showed much interest.? My goodness we've been after > those purse strings for a long time! > > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and > it appears in the OED with this association.? I'm intrigued to note that > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips).? I > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this > regard across Durrell's works over time. > > Cheers, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From john.u.peters at csun.edu Sat Jan 29 13:39:04 2011 From: john.u.peters at csun.edu (Peters, John U) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:39:04 -0800 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The unfolding revolution in Egypt raises any number of questions, not least of which is this: What would L.D. make of it all? Or would he even try? Any thoughts? JP ________________________________________ From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:00 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 Send ILDS mailing list submissions to ilds at lists.uvic.ca To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca You can reach the person managing the list at ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." Today's Topics: 1. The Dark Labyrinth (Bruce Redwine) 2. Revolt of Aphrodite (James Gifford) 3. OMG 17 - London (James Gifford) 4. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Denise Tart & David Green) 5. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) 6. Names (Bruce Redwine) 7. Re: Names (James Gifford) 8. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine) 9. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Anne R Zahlan) 10. online bibliography (James Gifford) 11. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine) 12. Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford) 13. MacNiven Bio (William Apt) 14. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com) 15. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine) 16. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford) 17. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green) 18. Re: MacNiven Bio (James Gifford) 19. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green) 20. the longer response to Bruce (James Gifford) 21. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) 22. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine) 23. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine) 24. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine) 25. Re: Names (Richard Pine) 26. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Richard Pine) 27. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine) 28. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine) 29. the purse (James Gifford) 30. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com) 31. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) 32. Re: the purse (Bruce Redwine) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:55:05 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Meta, Thanks for picking up on this important topic/novel. Re Durrell's choice of personal names in The Dark Labyrinth, the first consideration is that he himself called the novel an "extended morality" (Durrell-Miller Letters, 1962, 1963, p. 201), i.e., an allegory. And allegories, as you know, personify ideas. The big examples of that form, in English, are Spenser's Faerie Queene and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. These are both Renaissance works, early and late, so once again we have Durrell harkening back to the great period of English lit. In this regard, the novel's most interesting character, Campion, is also the name of a Renaissance medical doctor and poet, Thomas Campion (1567-1620). Durrell's usage of names fits the allegorical tradition. He also does this, however, elsewhere in his fiction, and I'd venture to say that the names of Durrell's characters most always mean something special They are rarely, if ever, arbitrary. It's useful to recall that Durrell himse! lf considered going into the medical profession and instead became a poet. Thus, Campion is a good alter ego for the author himself. I agree that the "Roof of the World" chapter in The Dark Labyrinth is one of the best Durrell ever wrote. He pulls it off, writing about a Utopian place, and succeeds where James Hilton in Lost Horizon does not succeed in describing his Shangri-La. Hilton's Utopia is mawkish, Durrell's is not. Of course, Durrell's mountaintop realm is very Romantic, but the irony is Romantic too, the sad self-consciousness that forces the narrator to conclude, "The roof of the world did not really exist, except in their own imaginations." That statement echoes again and again throughout Durrell's oeuvre. It reminds me that repetitive "Boum" in Forster's Marabar caves. Much remains to be talked about in this extraordinary novel. On a personal note, when I first read it in 1962, I recall that when Fearmax meets his fate in the labyrinth, at the end of "In the Darkness," I was terrified. Durrell can tell a good horror story. Durrell's terror, however, later turns into a kind of Romantic Irony. Best wishes on your translation into Slovenian. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:58 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > Meta Cerar, > Slovenia > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >> >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >> >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. >> >> David >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/d8b9a62a/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:10:33 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: [ilds] Revolt of Aphrodite To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D4322B9.4040002 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed I agree that /Revolt/ is much overlooked, and I see it as remarkably contemporary today. As for scoffing at Durrell's "middlebrow" works, there's been a steady stream of critical work done -- I don't think any of the academics scoff. Instead, I think they're often just more difficult to get (they've been in & out of print and often appeared first through small presses rather than Faber), and they haven't had the same spotlight as his major books. As for filthy lucre, I could see that for /White Eagles/ (though still an interesting work), but /Cefalu/ first appeared through the Poetry London imprint, which certainly wouldn't have earned Durrell a great deal, especially with Tambimuttu at the helm... Jan Morris had high praise for /Sicilian Carousel/ as well: Morris, Jan. "Durrell - on a Tourist Bus?" /Encounter/ 49.3 (September 1977): 77-79. The discussion of art in /Cefalu/ is fascinating as well, at least as a revelation of Durrell's interests and readings. Best, James On 27/01/11 10:47 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > Reading /Aphrodite's Revolt,/ or periphrasis of same, is a good idea. > Long overdue, for me, anyway. Think I'll take Grove up on this. Ken's > comment about the Greek island books (which I'd expand to include Sicily > and the Tyrrhenian Sea) bears serious consideration. David Green > deserves full credit for turning our eyes to the islands ("no tongue: > all eyes: be silent"). Undoubtedly, Durrell's "potboilers" were done for > "filthy lucre," but I find them most interesting and provocative. > Durrell, for all his protean productivity, was probably one of Isaiah > Berlin's "hedgehogs," more of a possessed Dostoevsky than a foxy > Tolstoy. That's to say, he was a man of just a few obsessions (and > demons), and these got continually reworked and replayed throughout his > /oeuvre/. So, I find it instructive to uncover these themes and tropes > in his self-acknowledged "minor" works. E.g., /The Dark Labyrinth, White > Eagles over Serbia,/ and /Sicilian Carousel./ I sense these are often > scoffed at, but I think this view mistaken ? highbrow priggishness. To > emphasize what I said before, authors don't always know what they doing, > and whether Durrell knew it or not, his potboilers seem to me as > revealing (and probably at least as enjoyable) as his "serious" work > intended "for all time." > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > wrote: > >> I've enjoyed the responses to David's post, but in my case my silence >> simply means that I'm busy and haven't had much to say. There are a >> couple of items about Norman Douglas and Patrick Leigh Fermor that >> I'll pass on as soon as I can put a few coherent paragraphs together, >> but in the meantime I'll second Ken's positive comment about The Greek >> Islands. And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! >> They're the most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and >> deserve more attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a >> chapter-by-chapter analysis of them, but perhaps someone else could >> this summer. I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc >> describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ken Gammage >> Sent: Jan 25, 2011 5:29 PM >> To: Denise Tart & David Green, "ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> " >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the >> listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports >> your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that >> resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from >> Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for >> the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often >> beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often >> responding directly and privately to the poster without >> necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes >> contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find >> this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) >> You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the >> artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of >> disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like >> Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the >> last page of my Italy website:www.travelogorrhea.com >> >> Viva Durrell! >> Kennedy Gammage >> ken.gammage at directed.com >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >> Behalf Of*Denise Tart & David Green >> *Sent:*Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM >> *To:*Durrel;DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU >> >> *Subject:*[ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other >> contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in >> Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to >> ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of >> Durrell and his works? >> >> There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious >> discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me >> and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared >> without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far >> between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to >> academic journals. >> There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony >> Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that >> she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. >> Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the >> only member to publicly respond. >> Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no >> longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy >> about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an >> aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in >> endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the >> cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer >> to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in >> their own right? >> Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who >> used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a >> terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at >> the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and >> works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? >> Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, >> "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" >> Yours, somewhat puzzled, >> David Green >> 16 William Street >> Marrickville NSW 2204 >> Australia >> >> This email may contain confidential and/or privileged >> information. It is intended only for the person or persons to >> whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or >> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or >> telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:35:52 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: [ilds] OMG 17 - London To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D4328A8.8040003 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed I should add, I typed in "15" by accident, thinking back to the Paris conference. (head hung in shame). London will be the 17th On Miracle Ground, offering us a lucky prime number (and a Fermat Prime at that!). Please create a substantial buzz in anticipation of the formal announcements! Best, James ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:21:09 +1100 From: "Denise Tart & David Green" Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: Message-ID: <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2 at DenisePC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Meta, thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) etc etc we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? David Green Terra Australis Incognito From: Meta Cerar Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian - to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) - and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, Meta Cerar, Slovenia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. David _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/2e2e39f8/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:21:01 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D43333D.9070101 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! Let's plan for it this summer. I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): "which satisfied the law." "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, from myself to myself" "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no contractual obligations." "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even though Rome burns." I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead on their word and sociability. The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s face." I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open poetics) are present here. At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? Best, James ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:20:13 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: [ilds] Names To: Denise Tart & David Green , ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > Meta, > > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. > > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > > etc etc > > we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > > David Green > Terra Australis Incognito > > From: Meta Cerar > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > Meta Cerar, > Slovenia > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >> >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >> >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. >> >> David >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/95341739/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:26:53 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: Re: [ilds] Names To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D43349D.7020301 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi Bruce, Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but I can't recall where... Best, James On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just > have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, > however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's > "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd > mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this > applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the > ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be > Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> Meta, >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have >> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the >> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes >> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes >> through in the Marine Venus. >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist >> rebel type >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain >> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >> etc etc >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a >> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west >> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to >> them. >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example >> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >> David Green >> Terra Australis Incognito >> >> *From:*Meta Cerar >> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, >> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends >> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most >> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list >> members wrote recently. >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or >> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently >> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the >> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to >> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on >> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. >> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci >> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar >> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a >> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the >> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and >> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly >> neglected to my great disappointment. >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >> Meta Cerar, >> Slovenia >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine >> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in >> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD >> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: >> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. >> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >> Bruce >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" >> > wrote: >> >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's >>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >>> >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of >>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern >>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them >>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there >>> something 18th century about it. >>> David > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:33:50 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Names To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <19F230A3-2799-4CC4-B1FA-A16EBB742E4B at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks. That confirms the linkage. It's amazing how saturated Durrell was in Renaissance English. He probably dreamed in blank verse. BR On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:26 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when > talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but > I can't recall where... > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just >> have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, >> however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's >> "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd >> mind, probably refers to more than coins. >> >> *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's >> Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this >> applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the >> ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be >> Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> >>> Meta, >>> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have >>> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the >>> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes >>> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes >>> through in the Marine Venus. >>> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >>> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >>> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist >>> rebel type >>> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >>> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain >>> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >>> etc etc >>> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a >>> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west >>> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to >>> them. >>> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example >>> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >>> David Green >>> Terra Australis Incognito >>> >>> *From:*Meta Cerar >>> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >>> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >>> >>> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, >>> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends >>> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most >>> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list >>> members wrote recently. >>> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or >>> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently >>> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the >>> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to >>> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. >>> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on >>> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. >>> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci >>> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar >>> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. >>> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a >>> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the >>> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and >>> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly >>> neglected to my great disappointment. >>> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >>> Meta Cerar, >>> Slovenia >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca >>> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On >>> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine >>> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >>> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca >>> >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >>> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in >>> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD >>> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: >>> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. >>> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >>> Bruce >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's >>>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >>>> >>>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of >>>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern >>>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >>>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them >>>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there >>>> something 18th century about it. >>>> David >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:55:10 -0500 From: "Anne R Zahlan" Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: , Message-ID: <5A956F8BADFF4A439E45C75187D5EB94 at annezahlan1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Jamie: Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and careful grad student. (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. Love, Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Gifford" To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > Hello all, > > For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated > since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: > > http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm > > Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of > items to add to it still... > > Best, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:35:44 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: [ilds] online bibliography To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D4344C0.2030000 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Anne, Good to hear from you! For everyone on the list, please consider this an open call for help with the online bibliography. James Clawson and Grove Koger have volunteered (at the last conference) to get involved, but I do suspect that maintaining an online bibliography will necessitate a level of technical expertise and free time that the three of us will find challenging... Grove is doing admirable work keeping the print bibliography going in /Deus Loci/ as the formal record, but there's a lot of secondary criticism out there still, especially in other languages. I first launched the online bibliography as a way of making such work easily available in a searchable format. That creative commons idea would still be my preference -- what say you all? Proprietary systems are easy to transfer to (RefWorks), but then they're proprietary and hard to open up publicly. Does anyone have experience with RefShare? Alternatively, the bibliography is already available (in a rough form) in BibTex, which is easy to update and is compatible with almost any citation management software, including many OpenSource and free applications. As I noted in the first launch, "The Koger-MacNiven Bibliography has been particularly useful, and Susan MacNiven's encouragement has been greatly appreciated. Other major bibliographers include Cecil L. Peaden, Susan Vander Closter, James Brigham, and Alan G. Thomas." Those are all still excellent resources. Best, James On 28/01/11 1:55 PM, Anne R Zahlan wrote: > Hi Jamie: > > Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site > etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and > careful grad student. > > (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) > > Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. > > Love, > > Anne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Gifford" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > >> Hello all, >> >> For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated >> since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: >> >> http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm >> >> Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of >> items to add to it still... >> >> Best, >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:38:19 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" James, Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of EB, I'll check it for you. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > Let's plan for it this summer. > > I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > "which satisfied the law." > > "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > from myself to myself" > > "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > contractual obligations." > > "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > though Rome burns." > > I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > on their word and sociability. > > The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > face." > > I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > poetics) are present here. > > At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > Best, > James > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/6cffe788/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:50:12 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D434824.1090100 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi Bruce, Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"). As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the comparison between past editions. I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. Thanks! James On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com >> wrote: >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. >> >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >> Let's plan for it this summer. >> >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. >> >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): >> >> "which satisfied the law." >> >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >> from myself to myself" >> >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >> contractual obligations." >> >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >> though Rome burns." >> >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >> on their word and sociability. >> >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: >> >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." >> >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >> >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >> >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >> face." >> >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >> poetics) are present here. >> >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? >> >> Best, >> James >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:04:17 -0800 From: William Apt Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear all: I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. -- WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, Ste 205 Austin TX 78746 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/41868c41/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:10:26 -0500 (EST) From: gkoger at mindspring.com Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <28880300.1296256226985.JavaMail.root at elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/4378b9f5/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:26:15 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <19707863-1F2E-4B09-9EB6-EBF117CEF73B at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" James, Yes, the EB 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> James, >> >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >>> >>> >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >>> >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >>> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/1e2ac9a9/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:42:39 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D43546F.7070904 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Bruce, Alas, *I* don't have the 14th edition, just access to the 11th... That said, a quick check in Google Books has Stephen Lukes remarking on Kropotkin's entry on Anarchism and Mutual Aid with a quotation that matches verbatim the 11th edition, but Lukes' citation is very clearly to the 1929-30 vol. 1 14th edition 9p. 873). I think that solves the mystery. Durrell's personal copy of the 14th edition would have carried at least a version of Kropotkin's 1905 entry for the 11th edition. I admire Lukes' work, so I'll trust it until I can check a 14h edition copy in the stacks. But, would that Zeno reference have stuck, if Durrell had even read it, more than 20 years later? Dunno, but it does open a window of possibility. Thanks for the help! And sorry to bore the rest of y'all -- any takers on the /Revolt/ suggestions? Best, James On 28/01/11 3:26 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > Yes, the /EB/ 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you > quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and > "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> Hi Bruce, >> >> Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 >> (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man >> Under Socialism"). >> >> As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was >> largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made >> cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I >> can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the >> comparison between past editions. >> >> I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. >> >> Thanks! >> James >> >> On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> James, >>> >>> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. >>> >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >>>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >>>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >>>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >>>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >>>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >>>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >>>> >>>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >>>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >>>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >>>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >>>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >>>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >>>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >>>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >>>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >>>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >>>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >>>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:44:40 +1100 From: "Denise Tart & David Green" Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio To: Message-ID: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB at DenisePC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" William, I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? David Green From: William Apt Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio Dear all: I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. -- WILLIAM APT Attorney at Law 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, Ste 205 Austin TX 78746 512/708-8300 512/708-8011 FAX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/ed6e4af7/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:01:26 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D4358D6.1090605 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi David, Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. Best, James On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > William, > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to > you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does > speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who > as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as > his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence > particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness > of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to > him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is > currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > David Green > > *From:* William Apt > *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > Dear all: > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my > taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's > book, and whether it is worthwhile? > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except > to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:35:04 +1100 From: "Denise Tart & David Green" Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio To: , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original James, I am noting that I have the revised edition, much thumbed. Yes, Bowker is a sharp writer but writing a biography of any complex 'genius' would be hard task as I am sure Michael Haag has discovered, especially if you want to go beyond a chronicle into a analysis of motive, muse, the meaning of self in relation to the world. Things are bound to slip. That said I enjoy biographies as much or more sometimes than the subjects own writings. Have been waiting for old Haag's biog for a while - in fact I'm getting that 'when's it going to be wine o'clock feeling if'n you take my meaning? David Whitewine btw, am hoping to get sorted a decent look at Durrell's islomania; form to be determined. -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Gifford" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:01 AM To: Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > Hi David, > > Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, > it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first > and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more > speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that > MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it > took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. > > Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not > without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: >> William, >> I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to >> you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does >> speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who >> as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as >> his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence >> particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness >> of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to >> him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is >> currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? >> David Green >> >> *From:* William Apt >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM >> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio >> >> Dear all: >> I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather >> and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent >> narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary >> obligations well: it is a most tactful book. >> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because >> it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had >> recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my >> taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's >> book, and whether it is worthwhile? >> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why >> he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except >> to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. >> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. >> Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. >> >> -- >> WILLIAM APT >> Attorney at Law >> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, >> Ste 205 >> Austin TX 78746 >> 512/708-8300 >> 512/708-8011 FAX >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:53:28 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D436508.1030104 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi Bruce, Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered ones. >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real >> issue. > > 1. I do. > >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. > > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how > energetically expressed. Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than inextricable differences. I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps should have noted to joke overtly. ;) >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented open discourse. It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence >>> Durrell's life and work. >> >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, > > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the >> opposite), and I >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. > > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic > queries made public? I'd like to see them. I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any chance of being of public interest. > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled > hook & bait: [that's me] > >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] > > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... > > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in > considerable detail. I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's Nazi ties would suggest. Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' > Negative Capability? > > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' masks. > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... > > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second guess > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. > > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980). Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? > > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then > "expiate" is exactly the right word. Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide some skeletons as well... Best, James ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:40:12 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D436FFC.1080302 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed As always, Ilyas, you have a keen eye and generous description of the things it spies. All apologies for my provincially dull skirmishes with Bruce, but at least we're keeping our blades dull as well. Hopefully this recent jump in activity on the list will return us to the "vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur enthusiast." As for Charles, > Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? > Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke > booke I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll have to try his cell... Best, James On 26/01/11 2:14 AM, Ilyas Khan wrote: > Ken, > > You make the key point in my view. I am active (and find tremendously > rewarding) my participation as ?poster? and ?lurker? on a number of > other such venues, and the key difference is that despite much hand > wringing on this listserv, there is an incredible tendency towards > clique-ishness, made all the more provincially dull by the continuation > of long standing personal skirmishes that the vast majority of us do not > understand or appreciate. > > My own attitude has been, therefore, to focus on two things. Firstly, my > own love of LD means that I usually find nuggets here, but I also have > drifted towards a personal reply instead of a reply to the forum as a > whole. Secondly, when the usual small clique start squabbling or cannot > see the impact of their language on others, I simply ignore them and > enjoy the underlying conversation from which I have learnt so much. At > times people such as James and Charles have tried to bring the > conversation back to the ?relevant?, but even they, I think, sometimes > tire of the same old repetition. > > There is a message in reply to David?s post that also raises the issue > of how some academics have been teased off this listserv from posting > stuff that is too academic. I agree that if other venues can maintain a > vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur > enthusiast, then so can we. > > On that basis therefore, David, I for one will try to become more > active. I value this little part of my life, and unless we all step upto > the plate, we have only ourselves to blame. Having made my points above, > I am hoping I can become one of the non-scholarly or non-academic > participants who has an opinion and a constructive point of view. > > Thanks > > > > > On 26/01/2011 00:29, "Ken Gammage" wrote: > > Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the > listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports your > argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in > detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and > James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several > years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many > thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and > privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to > publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The > Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated > strictly by lucre.) > You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery > cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my > poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please > see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy > website: www.travelogorrhea.com > > Viva Durrell! > > Kennedy Gammage > ken.gammage at directed.com > > > > *From:* ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] *On Behalf Of *Denise Tart & > David Green > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > *To:* Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > *Subject:* [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other > contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in > Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to > ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of > Durrell and his works? > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious > discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and > some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared > without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far > between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to > academic journals. > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony > Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she > can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless > some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only > member to publicly respond. > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no > longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy > about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an > aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in > endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the > cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to > items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own > right? > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who > used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal > illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment > to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the > Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, > "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > David Green > > 16 William Street > Marrickville NSW 2204 > Australia > > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:00:12 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio To: Denise Tart & David Green , ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I haven't read MacNiven in toto but agree with David's take on Bowker. I am not convinced, however, with Bowker's attempt to rationalize Durrell's "creative madness," especially with respect to his occasional treatment of his wives, sometimes brutally. BR On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > William, > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > > David Green > > From: William Apt > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/a3dc8a64/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:04:14 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <4850D6A6-F241-4278-BAD7-D7892AD32434 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The "Justine ts?" The Justine type script? Whereas Charles is, I wish him well. BR On Jan 28, 2011, at 5:40 PM, James Gifford wrote: > As for Charles, > >> Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? >> Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke >> booke > > I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll > have to try his cell... > > Best, > James > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/433eac65/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:20:47 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill, Any attempt to write a biography of Lawrence Durrell is a mind-boggling enterprise, both in terms of the complexity of the man himself and the huge amount of material required to absorb and analyze. He was definitely a genius but also a very flawed one, which is probably the way we want our geniuses to be. It was a pleasure to offer you the little assistance I could. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:04 PM, William Apt wrote: > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:03:39 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Pine Subject: Re: [ilds] Names To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <192927.66531.qm at web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Wasn't me! RP ________________________________ From: Bruce Redwine To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM Subject: [ilds] Names Pursewarden. ?Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. ?Or maybe I?just?have a dirty mind. ?Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. ?The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. ?Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. Mountolive. ?New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? ?Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or?passions?to deal with. ?This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. ?Still, a good name. Bruce On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: Meta, >? >thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to >find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. >insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful >island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. >? >To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >? >Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type >Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia >(Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >? >etc etc >? >we recall in 18th century? English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby >being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of >rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. >? >I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) >or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >? >David Green >Terra Australis Incognito > > >From:?Meta Cerar >Sent:?Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > >Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN >for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the >World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire >opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. >? >If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark >Labyrinth ?names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark >Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth >(February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of >the book. >? >I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this >particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as >a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's >influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know >if it's worth reading. >? >BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future >Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean >but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? >in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great >disappointment. >? >Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >? >Meta Cerar, >Slovenia >? > ________________________________ >From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf >Of?Bruce Redwine >Sent:?Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >To:?Denise Tart & David Green;?ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >? >Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed >throughout Durrell's fiction. ?My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as >Shakespeare did his low-life characters: ? Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, >Pistol, etc. ?People are their names. ?Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >? >? >Bruce > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" >wrote: >I especially recommend the?early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken >speech in front of the Parthenon.?Grove >> >>It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's >>speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and >>the? souther classical Parthenon. >>? >>btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by?them when >>reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century >>about it. >>? >>David >>? >>? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/d513fa98/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:18:32 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Pine Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <691071.26582.qm at web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: Abnormal Psychology Abraxas Almanac Archimedes Arrhenius Asia Astrology Astronomy Calendar (Central America - May) (Chronology - Maya) Circle Comparative Ethics Confucius Cone Constellation Cosmogony Egypt Equation of Time Geodesy Geometry (and Line Geometry) Indian Philosophy Infinity Lhasa Limit Mayan Calendar Mayan Culture Menstruation Nashe Number & Numerals Observatory Palmistry Ptolemy Serpents Sphere Stoics Zero Tibet Tides Time ----- Original Message ---- From: James Gifford To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th Hi Bruce, Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"). As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made cuts to existing entries.? If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!? I can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the comparison between past editions. I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. Thanks! James On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > James, > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com >> wrote: >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. >> >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >> Let's plan for it this summer. >> >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. >> >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): >> >> "which satisfied the law." >> >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >> from myself to myself" >> >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >> contractual obligations." >> >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >> though Rome burns." >> >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >> on their word and sociability. >> >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: >> >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." >> >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >> >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >> >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >> face." >> >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >> poetics) are present here. >> >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? >> >> Best, >> James >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:37:01 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Names To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I would swear that it was. So much for memory. BR On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > Wasn't me! RP > > From: Bruce Redwine > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM > Subject: [ilds] Names > > Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> Meta, >> >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. >> >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters >> >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) >> >> etc etc >> >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. >> >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? >> >> David Green >> Terra Australis Incognito >> >> From: Meta Cerar >> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. >> >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. >> >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. >> >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. >> >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, >> >> Meta Cerar, >> Slovenia >> >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM >> To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list >> >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? >> >> >> Bruce >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: >> >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove >>> >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. >>> >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. >>> >>> David >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/47524b25/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 09:06:04 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Cc: Bruce Redwine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Thanks. Fascinating. He's plotting his literary future. Note the interest in space and time. The big interest in the Maya seems strange but probably has to do with their calendar and time. I haven't checked the 11th, but when the 11th and 14th were published, their code had not been broken into, and the Maya were thought to be peaceful and Arcadian. Perhaps a jungle version of the Roof of the World, if you will. After the glyphs were deciphered, along with extensive archaeology, it was discovered they were just the opposite ? highly warlike and bloodthirsty. Mel Gibson's Apocalypto is not far from the truth. It might be a good exercise for some energetic graduate student to read all these articles and then compare them with Durrell's oeuvre. Surely worth an article or two. Bruce On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:18 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: > > Abnormal Psychology > Abraxas > Almanac > Archimedes > Arrhenius > Asia > Astrology > Astronomy > Calendar > (Central America - May) > (Chronology - Maya) > Circle > Comparative Ethics > Confucius > Cone > Constellation > Cosmogony > Egypt > Equation of Time > Geodesy > Geometry (and Line Geometry) > Indian Philosophy > Infinity > Lhasa > Limit > Mayan Calendar > Mayan Culture > Menstruation > Nashe > Number & Numerals > Observatory > Palmistry > Ptolemy > Serpents > Sphere > Stoics > Zero > Tibet > Tides > Time > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: James Gifford > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> James, >> >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: >> >>> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com >>> wrote: >>>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >>>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >>>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >>>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. >>> >>> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >>> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >>> Let's plan for it this summer. >>> >>> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >>> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >>> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. >>> >>> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >>> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >>> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >>> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >>> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >>> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >>> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): >>> >>> "which satisfied the law." >>> >>> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. >>> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >>> from myself to myself" >>> >>> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >>> contractual obligations." >>> >>> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >>> though Rome burns." >>> >>> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >>> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >>> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >>> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >>> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >>> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >>> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >>> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >>> on their word and sociability. >>> >>> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: >>> >>> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >>> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." >>> >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): >>> >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." >>> >>> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >>> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >>> face." >>> >>> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >>> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >>> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >>> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >>> poetics) are present here. >>> >>> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >>> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? >>> >>> Best, >>> James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/4bc4c895/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:27:22 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: [ilds] the purse To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D445C0A.30904 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > >> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >> >> Wasn't me! RP >> >>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after those purse strings for a long time! Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this regard across Durrell's works over time. Cheers, James ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:31:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: gkoger at mindspring.com Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <24725023.1296325907489.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 James, Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. Aren't the books all about contradictions? Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach would be another reason to look forward to summer! Grove -----Original Message----- >From: James Gifford >Sent: Jan 28, 2011 2:21 PM >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca >Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc >and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! >Let's plan for it this summer. > >I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political >works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s >and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable >ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications >in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New >Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an >antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to >that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, >authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >"which satisfied the law." > >"the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, >from myself to myself" > >"People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no >contractual obligations." > >"we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even >though Rome burns." > >I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at >the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are >explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I >can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that >asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those >terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, >but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, >law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead >on their word and sociability. > >The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > >"Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; >or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek >clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the >destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take >the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! >Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the >Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th >edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >"The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno >[...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without >government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence >of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the >sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already >that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to >egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with >another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough >to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers >and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or >police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- >free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so >that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s >face." > >I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden >Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this >in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or >antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open >poetics) are present here. > >At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind >lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >Best, >James >_______________________________________________ >ILDS mailing list >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:29:21 -0800 From: James Gifford Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Message-ID: <4D446A91.4070105 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hi Grove, Let's consider this an aim for late April/May? Unless, of course, there's a chorus from the listserv to get started right away... I'd agree about the Firm being more than simply a modern institution in the books -- I suppose my curiosity relates to the potential for LD to be talking about coercive authority in that 1968 moment (which Don Kacz has noted before). Just what *is* the Firm? I'm in the midst of a long project relating to poetry networks in the 1930s and 40s that differ from the High Modernists and Auden group by virtue of antiauthoritarian politics (or Herbert Read's politics of the unpolitical), and Durrell's in there though he's peripheral. That is certainly shaping my readerly perspective at the moment {winks eye at Bruce}, but it seems surprisingly easy to develop that perspective. Cheers, James On 29/01/11 10:31 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > James, > > Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last > reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm > has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as > well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central > situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. > Aren't the books all about contradictions? > > Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach > would be another reason to look forward to summer! > > Grove ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:28:48 -0800 From: Bruce Redwine Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse To: "gifford at fdu.edu" , "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" Message-ID: <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women on this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile behavior. BR Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >> >>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>> >>> Wasn't me! RP >>> >>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this > > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as > well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after > those purse strings for a long time! > > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and > it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this > regard across Durrell's works over time. > > Cheers, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds End of ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 ************************************ From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 29 15:03:53 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 15:03:53 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce In-Reply-To: References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> <4D436508.1030104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9DE93CB1-CFC6-4C7C-B651-6970EF5157CF@earthlink.net> Bill, As I recall you were about to make provocative comparisons between Middleton's Blacke Booke and Durrell's. Please do so. I'm anxious to hear them. Bruce Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2011, at 1:54 PM, William Godshalk wrote: > James, > > I'm puzzled. What was I supposed to be doing -- comparing Middleton with Durrell? That's still on the back burner of my mind -- and if no one else does, I will in the next year write it up. > > Or were you thinking of something else? You keyboard faster than I read (and think). > > Bill > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let > others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered > ones. > > >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about > >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real > >> issue. > > > > 1. I do. > > > >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the > >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. > > > > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what > > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do > > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how > > energetically expressed. > > Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" > are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I > consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than > inextricable differences. > > I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my > moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from > being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a > public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! > > >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > > > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence > > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its > > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the > > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. > > I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an > occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps > should have noted to joke overtly. ;) > > >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and > >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an > >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of > >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. > >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > > > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators > > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the > > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and > > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those > > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And > > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary > > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then > > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a > > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. > > I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and > keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be > a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to > consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented > open discourse. > > It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling > emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same > token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the > cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few > occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my > hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). > > The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy > asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not > fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome > such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. > > >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > >>> Durrell's life and work. > >> > >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, > > > > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. > > I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm > certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to > light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to > some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements > there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. > > That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. > Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the > points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives > on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that > we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for > incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads > to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. > > An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. > Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his > personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as > well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal > with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has > accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable > disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations > against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock > journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. > > >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the > >> opposite), and I > >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. > > > > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators > > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and > > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. > > Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the > road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... > > >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I > >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic > > queries made public? I'd like to see them. > > I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, > etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any > chance of being of public interest. > > > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. > > Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our > animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. > > > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled > > hook & bait: [that's me] > > > >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few > >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] > > > > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I > > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in > > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or > > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... > > > > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de > > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time > > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid > > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in > > considerable detail. > > I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that > distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly > living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had > rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I > hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the > imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, > which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not > saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's > Nazi ties would suggest. > > Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. > Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of > skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but > not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. > > > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the > > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' > > Negative Capability? > > > > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. > > I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. > What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always > going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant > complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' > masks. > > > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's > > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for > > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're > > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... > > > > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." > > Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out > to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at > instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described > events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the > gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where > the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area > (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally > achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being > myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are > invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... > > > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second guess > > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously > > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. > > > > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing > > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the > > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, > > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most > > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not > > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank > > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980). > > Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a > matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine > the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) > suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence > Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical > matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, > contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked > interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive > matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the > book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) > > But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to > keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. > > > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is > > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? > > > > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. > > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then > > "expiate" is exactly the right word. > > Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence > "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) > > You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you > mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and > Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't > think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? > Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will > lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the > Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide > some skeletons as well... > > Best, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/7a51e231/attachment.html From william.godshalk at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 15:34:33 2011 From: william.godshalk at gmail.com (William Godshalk) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 18:34:33 -0500 Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce In-Reply-To: <9DE93CB1-CFC6-4C7C-B651-6970EF5157CF@earthlink.net> References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> <4D436508.1030104@gmail.com> <9DE93CB1-CFC6-4C7C-B651-6970EF5157CF@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I do, I will. Actually I was rereading Middleton's *Black Book* last night. On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > Bill, > > As I recall you were about to make provocative comparisons between > Middleton's Blacke Booke and Durrell's. Please do so. I'm anxious to hear > them. > > > Bruce > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 1:54 PM, William Godshalk > wrote: > > James, > > I'm puzzled. What was I supposed to be doing -- comparing Middleton with > Durrell? That's still on the back burner of my mind -- and if no one else > does, I will in the next year write it up. > > Or were you thinking of something else? You keyboard faster than I read > (and think). > > Bill > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, James Gifford < > james.d.gifford at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Bruce, >> >> Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let >> others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered >> ones. >> >> >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about >> >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real >> >> issue. >> > >> > 1. I do. >> > >> >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the >> >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. >> > >> > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what >> > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do >> > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how >> > energetically expressed. >> >> Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" >> are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I >> consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than >> inextricable differences. >> >> I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my >> moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from >> being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a >> public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! >> >> >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... >> > >> > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence >> > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its >> > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the >> > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. >> >> I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an >> occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps >> should have noted to joke overtly. ;) >> >> >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and >> >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is >> an >> >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of >> >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. >> >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. >> > >> > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators >> > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the >> > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and >> > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those >> > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And >> > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary >> > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then >> > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a >> > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. >> >> I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and >> keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be >> a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to >> consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented >> open discourse. >> >> It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling >> emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same >> token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the >> cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few >> occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my >> hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). >> >> The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy >> asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not >> fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome >> such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. >> >> >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence >> >>> Durrell's life and work. >> >> >> >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, >> > >> > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. >> >> I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm >> certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to >> light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to >> some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements >> there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. >> >> That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. >> Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the >> points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives >> on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that >> we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for >> incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads >> to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. >> >> An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. >> Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his >> personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as >> well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal >> with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has >> accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable >> disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations >> against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock >> journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. >> >> >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the >> >> opposite), and I >> >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. >> > >> > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators >> > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and >> > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. >> >> Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the >> road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... >> >> >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I >> >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. >> > >> > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic >> > queries made public? I'd like to see them. >> >> I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, >> etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any >> chance of being of public interest. >> >> > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. >> >> Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our >> animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. >> >> > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled >> > hook & bait: [that's me] >> > >> >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few >> >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] >> > >> > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I >> > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in >> > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or >> > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... >> > >> > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de >> > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time >> > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid >> > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in >> > considerable detail. >> >> I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that >> distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly >> living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had >> rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I >> hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the >> imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, >> which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not >> saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's >> Nazi ties would suggest. >> >> Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. >> Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of >> skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but >> not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. >> >> > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the >> > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' >> > Negative Capability? >> > >> > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. >> >> I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. >> What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always >> going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant >> complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' >> masks. >> >> > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's >> > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for >> > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're >> > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... >> > >> > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." >> >> Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out >> to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at >> instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described >> events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the >> gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where >> the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area >> (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally >> achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being >> myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are >> invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... >> >> > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second >> guess >> > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously >> > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. >> > >> > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing >> > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the >> > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, >> > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most >> > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not >> > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank >> > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" >> (1980). >> >> Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a >> matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine >> the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) >> suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence >> Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical >> matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, >> contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked >> interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive >> matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the >> book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) >> >> But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to >> keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. >> >> > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is >> > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? >> > >> > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. >> > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then >> > "expiate" is exactly the right word. >> >> Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence >> "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) >> >> You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you >> mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and >> Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't >> think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? >> Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will >> lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the >> Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide >> some skeletons as well... >> >> Best, >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/23b10df8/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 16:16:36 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:16:36 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce In-Reply-To: References: <4D3F8481.7040906@gmail.com> <4D436508.1030104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D44ADE4.6090308@gmail.com> Hey Bill, I'm looking forward to reading your article on the matter! Don't look at me to write it up>;;) Alas, I sometimes keyboard faster than I can think too... Best, Jamie On 29/01/11 1:54 PM, William Godshalk wrote: > James, > > I'm puzzled. What was I supposed to be doing -- comparing Middleton with > Durrell? That's still on the back burner of my mind -- and if no one > else does, I will in the next year write it up. > > Or were you thinking of something else? You keyboard faster than I read > (and think). > > Bill > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, James Gifford > > wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let > others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered > ones. > > >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about > >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real > >> issue. > > > > 1. I do. > > > >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the > >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. > > > > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather > about what > > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything > and do > > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how > > energetically expressed. > > Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" > are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I > consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than > inextricable differences. > > I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my > moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from > being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a > public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! > > >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > > > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence > > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its > > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 > of the > > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. > > I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an > occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps > should have noted to joke overtly. ;) > > >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and > >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the > list is an > >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of > >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. > >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > > > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the > moderators > > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put > it, "the > > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and > > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those > > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the > masses. And > > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and > literary > > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then > > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a > > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its > practices. > > I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and > keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be > a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to > consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented > open discourse. > > It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling > emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same > token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the > cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few > occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my > hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). > > The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy > asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not > fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome > such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. > > >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > >>> Durrell's life and work. > >> > >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, > > > > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. > > I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm > certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to > light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to > some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements > there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. > > That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. > Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the > points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives > on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that > we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for > incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads > to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. > > An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. > Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his > personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as > well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal > with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has > accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable > disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations > against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock > journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. > > >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the > >> opposite), and I > >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the > pom poms. > > > > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators > > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and > > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. > > Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the > road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... > > >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I > >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic > > queries made public? I'd like to see them. > > I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, > etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any > chance of being of public interest. > > > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. > > Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our > animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. > > > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly > dangled > > hook & bait: [that's me] > > > >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few > >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] > > > > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but > Bruce, I > > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in > > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or > > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader > too... > > > > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de > > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time > > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid > > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in > > considerable detail. > > I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that > distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly > living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had > rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I > hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the > imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, > which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not > saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's > Nazi ties would suggest. > > Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. > Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of > skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but > not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. > > > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of > all the > > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of > Keats' > > Negative Capability? > > > > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. > > I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. > What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always > going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant > complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' > masks. > > > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's > > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his > "Ark for > > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite > you're > > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... > > > > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." > > Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out > to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at > instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described > events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the > gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where > the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area > (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally > achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being > myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are > invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... > > > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I > second guess > > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously > > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. > > > > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing > > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the > > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial > intentions, > > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for > the most > > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? > but not > > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank > > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" > (1980). > > Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a > matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine > the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) > suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence > Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical > matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, > contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked > interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive > matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the > book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) > > But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to > keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. > > > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal > with"? Is > > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? > > > > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed > Catholic. > > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then > > "expiate" is exactly the right word. > > Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence > "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) > > You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you > mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and > Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't > think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? > Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will > lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the > Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide > some skeletons as well... > > Best, > James > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 29 17:31:17 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:31:17 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <4D447401.80306@gmail.com> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <4D447401.80306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <74EF29F2-C3F4-495A-9161-279E2D4C40B9@earthlink.net> Since this List is in danger of becoming a locker-room full of jock-talk, I shall put on my Dolly Varden hat and speak in the voice of the Wife of Bath, with only casual reference to any bele chose. 1. Lawrence G. Durrell was a sexist of the highest order. He was married four times and had innumerable mistresses ? all of whom he battered or treated badly. 2. He was such a wife-beater that even the King of Sexists, Henry Miller, called him on the carpet for behavior that cast disrepute on his own brand of sexism. Afterwards M. Durrell took revenge by cockolding his best friend. Typical male chauvinism ? showing contempt by doing the contemptible with and on what men think contemptible. The good feminist Ana?s Nin confirms M. Durrell's early misogyny in her diaries. 3. It does no good to say that the dirty talk males like to indulge in, joking around about male nether organs and the like, has no bearing on sexism. It certainly does, because it all stems from the same base urge ? to attack women, to dehumanize them, and then to turn them into sexual playthings for their own perverse pleasures. Look at that rubber woman in that novel about an adulterous wife and then look at the plasticine doll-woman in that Caesar book (so typical that M. Durrell would choose that Roman general who was just another sexist who kept his wife all cooped up while he himself played around with that Egyptian prostitute). What kind of bele chose are we supposed to imagine they had? We women are supposed to find all that funny? What more evidence do you need to condemn the sick mind of that dirty old man? Mrs. Bath On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:09 PM, James Gifford wrote: > Well, the OED aligns "purse" with male genitals, so I don't think it's > misogynistic, though there's a line of misogyny in Durrell's works (a > line that runs in parallel to other diverse or even contradictory > lines). As for male infantile behavior, it's certainly a component -- > LD's notebooks are full of such jokes (the "tunc" wordplay in /Revolt/, > etc.). I think there's a fine distinction between recognizing the joke > and making it though... > > We do, however, have a relatively low number of contributions from > female listmembers (of whom there are many), so I wonder if a discomfort > exists. The Woolf and HD lists certainly have a preponderance of female > contributions. Certainly a large number of the critical articles on > Durrell are written by women, so it seems plausible women are made to > feel less comfortable on the listserv, which I would hope we could > change if it's the case! > > Comments? Suggestions? On list or off, both are welcome. > > Best, > James > > On 29/01/11 11:28 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >> Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology >> for Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us >> have dirty minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I >> wonder if the women on this List would consider that misogyny or >> would dismiss it as male infantile behavior. >> >> BR >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James >> Gifford wrote: >> >>> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >>>> >>>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Wasn't me! RP >>>>> >>>>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out >>>>>> that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. >>>>>> Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm >>>>>> this >>> >>> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said >>> it: Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this >>> point as well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've >>> been after those purse strings for a long time! >>> >>> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill >>> noted, and it appears in the OED with this association. I'm >>> intrigued to note that the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in >>> relation to the mouth in /Pied Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, >>> not just pursing one's lips). I wonder if a collocation would turn >>> up interesting patterns in this regard across Durrell's works over >>> time. >>> >>> Cheers, James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/98b36190/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 00:34:35 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 00:34:35 -0800 Subject: [ilds] New Book - Paris Ouest In-Reply-To: <74EF29F2-C3F4-495A-9161-279E2D4C40B9@earthlink.net> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <4D447401.80306@gmail.com> <74EF29F2-C3F4-495A-9161-279E2D4C40B9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D45229B.5010304@gmail.com> Hello all, The following announcement has come from Isabelle Keller-Privat. I hope we can all celebrate the completion of this project: /Lawrence Durrell at the Crossroads of Arts and Sciences/! The book collects several of the papers presented at OMG XV and others. I've attached the order form in PDF, and the general description is below. Best, James ----------------------- /Lawrence Durrell at the Crossroads of Arts and Sciences/ Sous la direction de Corinne Alexandre-Garner, Isabelle Keller-Privat et Murielle Philippe isbn: 978-2-84016-070-0 This volume gathers some of the papers delivered at the international conference which was held in Nanterre from 1st-5th July in collaboration with the International Lawrence Durrell Society. Its aim is to explore the influence of scientific theories on Lawrence Durrell?s literary work in terms of blending and synergy, as well as to study Durrell?s political role and to explore how music and poetry pervade his writing. Written in English and addressing a specialist audience, this book is part of the Collection durrellienne and presents texts whose authors pertain to diverse geographical and cultural horizons (the USA, Canada, Turkey, Greece, Egypt, England and France), thus reflecting Lawrence Durrell?s intellectual path and giving this work an international scope. Cet ouvrage est le fruit d'un colloque international qui s'est tenu ? Nanterre du 1er au 5 juillet 2008, avec le soutien de la Soci?t? Internationale Lawrence Durrell, dont il rassemble certaines des communications. Il s'agit d?analyser l?impact de la th?orie scientifique sur l??uvre litt?raire de Lawrence Durrell, qui se mesure en termes de fusion et de synergie, ainsi que d'?tudier le r?le politique de Durrell et d'explorer les rapports qu'entretient son ?uvre avec la musique et la po?sie R?dig? en anglais et destin? ? un public de sp?cialistes, cet ouvrage s'ins?re dans la Collection durrellienne et rassemble des auteurs venant d?horizons et de sensibilit?s culturelles vari?s (?tats-Unis, Canada, Turquie, Gr?ce, ?gypte, Angleterre et France) refl?tant l'itin?raire de pens?e de Durrell, et conf?rant ? ce travail une dimension internationale. Ont contribu? ? cet ouvrage: Murielle Philippe, Paul Lorenz, Dianne Vipond, Ravindran Nambiar, Corinne Alexandre-Garner, Barbara Papastavrou-Koroniotakis, Mohamed Khalil, Fiona Tomkinson, Daniel Kempton, C?cile Oumhani, Nathalie Vincent-Arnaud, James Gifford et Michael Stevens, Rachel Foss, Sarah Varron, Isabelle Keller-Privat, Nathalie Vincent-Arnaud. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PromoDurrell2.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 103559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110130/c69d5603/attachment.pdf From alfandary at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 02:22:25 2011 From: alfandary at gmail.com (Rony Alfandary) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:22:25 +0200 Subject: [ilds] Bowker and MacNiven Biographies Message-ID: Hello all, I am current reading them both simultaneously. there are narked difference - MacNiven is indeed full of detail and excellent source for further research. there are many discrepancies - for instance, when did Durrell begin St Joseph's? when he was six (Bowker) or Nine (MacNiven)? it is of some interest to me as i am working on the theme of Durrell's resentment towards his parents vis-a-vis this first exile. Rony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110130/ccdd16c6/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 05:15:30 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 05:15:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] Bowker and MacNiven Biographies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <247803.26519.qm@web65814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Rony's question (and others similar) might be answered by reference to Brewster Chamberlin's 'Chronology of the Life and Times of Lawrence Durrell' (2007), now available on Amazon, where Brewster notes the discrepancies between 'facts' relayed by both Ian MacNiven and Gordon Bowker. RP? ________________________________ From: Rony Alfandary To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 12:22:25 PM Subject: [ilds] Bowker and MacNiven Biographies Hello all, I am current reading them both?simultaneously. there are narked difference - MacNiven is indeed full of detail and excellent source for further?research. there are many?discrepancies?- for instance, when did Durrell begin St Joseph's? when he was six (Bowker) or Nine (MacNiven)? it is of some interest to me as i am working on the theme of Durrell's resentment towards his parents vis-a-vis this first exile. Rony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110130/eecb9c27/attachment.html From marcpiel at interdesign.fr Sun Jan 30 05:25:12 2011 From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:25:12 +0100 Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> Can I add a little uncontrived bit? Cun?gonde is a medieval given name, derived from the Germanic "k?hn"= daring, and "gund"=combat, and means "one who fears nothing. " It was fairly common until the thirteenth century in Germany, Flanders and Poland. But the unfortunate jokes that it's pronunciation allows, in France, have quickly shelved it. It would seem that it has only been used 23 times sine 1900. The pronounciation suggests: idiocy, not very bright, candidly stupid, hollow, etc.... "Gonde" is french but "cune" is not! Marc Piel Le 29/01/11 22:32, Richard Pine a ?crit : > In my participation in the LD documentary in 1998 (BBC) I did suggest that > 'Cunegonde' was a play on 'Cune' = cunt and 'gonde' = french for 'hinge'. And > yes, there is the Candide con(sic) nection but I didn't raise (sic) this in the > tv prog. RP > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bruce Redwine > To: "gifford at fdu.edu"; "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:28:48 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse > > Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for > Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty > minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women on > this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile > behavior. > > BR > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: > >> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >>> >>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>>> >>>> Wasn't me! RP >>>> >>>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this >> >> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: >> Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as >> well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after >> those purse strings for a long time! >> >> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and >> it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that >> the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied >> Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I >> wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this >> regard across Durrell's works over time. >> >> Cheers, >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > From Charles-Sligh at utc.edu Sun Jan 30 06:59:59 2011 From: Charles-Sligh at utc.edu (Charles Sligh) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 09:59:59 -0500 Subject: [ilds] Chronology of the Life and Times of Lawrence Durrell, Homme de Lettres In-Reply-To: <247803.26519.qm@web65814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <247803.26519.qm@web65814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D457CEF.8040203@utc.edu> On 1/30/11 8:15 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > Brewster Chamberlin's 'Chronology of the Life and Times of Lawrence > Durrell' (2007) / *A Chronology of the Life and Times of Lawrence Durrell, Homme de Lettres*/* 103 pages Durrell School of Corfu; 1st edition (2007) 978-0954993719* Link for the Chronology on Amazon.co.uk (1 copy available) An excellent tool for quick access to the life and times. But a direct approach might be more productive. Brewster Chamberlin's email: Smithchamberlin at aol.com CLS -- ******************************************** Charles L. Sligh Assistant Professor Department of English University of Tennessee at Chattanooga charles-sligh at utc.edu ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110130/d12bda30/attachment.html From rpinecorfu at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 06:37:52 2011 From: rpinecorfu at yahoo.com (Richard Pine) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 06:37:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> Message-ID: <129419.22550.qm@web65811.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> When I said, in the BBC documentary, that 'Cunegonde' was 'the cunt on which the sexual business of the world hinged', the BBC , obviously revering cant but not liking cunt, dubbed my voice so that what was transmitted was 'the cune on which...'. RP ----- Original Message ---- From: Marc Piel To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 3:25:12 PM Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse Can I add a little uncontrived bit? Cun?gonde is a? medieval given name, derived from the Germanic "k?hn"= daring, and "gund"=combat, and means "one who fears nothing. " It was fairly common until the thirteenth century in Germany, Flanders and Poland. But the unfortunate jokes that it's pronunciation allows, in France, have quickly shelved it. It would seem that it has only been used 23 times sine 1900. The pronounciation suggests: idiocy, not very bright, candidly stupid, hollow, etc.... "Gonde" is french but "cune" is not! Marc Piel Le 29/01/11 22:32, Richard Pine a ?crit : > In my participation in the LD documentary in 1998 (BBC) I did suggest that > 'Cunegonde' was a play on 'Cune' = cunt and 'gonde' = french for 'hinge'. And > yes, there is the Candide con(sic) nection but I didn't raise (sic) this in the > tv prog. RP > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bruce Redwine > To: "gifford at fdu.edu"; "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:28:48 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse > > Congratulations!? RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for > Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety.? So at least three of us have dirty > minds.? Durrell does encourage this kind of research.? I wonder if the women on > this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile > behavior. > > BR > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford? wrote: > >> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >>> >>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>>> >>>> Wasn't me! RP >>>> >>>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this >> >> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: >> Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400.? AJ French chimed in on this point as >> well, and Bruce showed much interest.? My goodness we've been after >> those purse strings for a long time! >> >> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and >> it appears in the OED with this association.? I'm intrigued to note that >> the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied >> Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips).? I >> wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this >> regard across Durrell's works over time. >> >> Cheers, >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > _______________________________________________ ILDS mailing list ILDS at lists.uvic.ca https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 30 08:30:20 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:30:20 -0800 Subject: [ilds] =?iso-8859-1?q?Cun=E9gonde?= In-Reply-To: <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> Message-ID: Marc's explanation is both erudite and relevant, but I suspect what appealed to LGD's sense of humor was Richard Pine's definition of "the cunt on which the sexual business of the world hinged." Durrell admired Rabelais, often talked about him (which we haven't), and this name is just the sort of grotesque nonsense the great Frenchman would have come up with. Cun?gonde, Durrell's Latex doll-woman, keeping his narrator comfort in his old age, is outrageously ridiculous ? and so is her name. Bruce On Jan 30, 2011, at 5:25 AM, Marc Piel wrote: > Can I add a little uncontrived bit? > > Cun?gonde is a medieval given name, derived from > the Germanic "k?hn"= daring, and "gund"=combat, > and means "one who fears nothing. " > It was fairly common until the thirteenth century > in Germany, Flanders and Poland. But the > unfortunate jokes that it's pronunciation allows, > in France, have quickly shelved it. It would seem > that it has only been used 23 times sine 1900. The > pronounciation suggests: idiocy, not very bright, > candidly stupid, hollow, etc.... > > "Gonde" is french but "cune" is not! > > Marc Piel > > > > Le 29/01/11 22:32, Richard Pine a ?crit : >> In my participation in the LD documentary in 1998 (BBC) I did suggest that >> 'Cunegonde' was a play on 'Cune' = cunt and 'gonde' = french for 'hinge'. And >> yes, there is the Candide con(sic) nection but I didn't raise (sic) this in the >> tv prog. RP >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Bruce Redwine >> To: "gifford at fdu.edu"; "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" >> >> Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:28:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse >> >> Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for >> Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty >> minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women on >> this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile >> behavior. >> >> BR >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: >> >>> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >>>> >>>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Wasn't me! RP >>>>> >>>>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this >>> >>> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: >>> Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as >>> well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after >>> those purse strings for a long time! >>> >>> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and >>> it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that >>> the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied >>> Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I >>> wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this >>> regard across Durrell's works over time. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> James From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 10:26:15 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:26:15 -0800 Subject: [ilds] Bowker and MacNiven Biographies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D45AD47.3070506@gmail.com> Hi Rony, Bowker had an unfortunate habit of relying on Durrell's fiction for autobiographical information -- this is particularly true of his Indian childhood and /Pied Piper of Lovers/. If you're interested in Durrell's more candid presentation of mother and father figures, /Pied Piper of Lovers/ is fiction, but he shows more there than in any other novel. For what it's worth, MacNiven (and I fear any biographer) does draw on Durrell's fiction for biographical information as well, just not as much. That creates problems, though I'm not sure how any Durrell biographer could avoid it. Best, James On 30/01/11 2:22 AM, Rony Alfandary wrote: > Hello all, > I am current reading them both simultaneously. there are narked > difference - MacNiven is indeed full of detail and excellent source for > further research. there are many discrepancies - for instance, when did > Durrell begin St Joseph's? when he was six (Bowker) or Nine (MacNiven)? > it is of some interest to me as i am working on the theme of Durrell's > resentment towards his parents vis-a-vis this first exile. > Rony > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 10:30:10 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:30:10 -0800 Subject: [ilds] =?iso-8859-1?q?CFP_-_SAIT_and_Soci=E9t=E9_des_Anglicistes_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?de_l=27Enseignement_Sup=E9rieur?= In-Reply-To: <4D45AD47.3070506@gmail.com> References: <4D45AD47.3070506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D45AE32.6080000@gmail.com> Hello all, This isn't a Durrell CFP, but it may be of interest to some here. Best, James ----------- The annual conference of the SAIT and Soci?t? des Anglicistes de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur (SEAC) will take place in London England at Senate House, November 4-5 2011. Please see the CFP below and send all abstracts to Isabelle Gadoin and Catherine Lanone . RUINs in Twentieth-Century British Art and Fiction As opposed to the Gothic labyrinths of vaults and broken palaces or shattered abbeys, in the nineteenth century the picturesque legacy grew into a passion for sublime ruins as crystals of time, suffused with melancholy pleasure. From Romantic hubris (and the fascination for Troy or Pompei) to Turner's luminous visions or Hardy's carved windows and stone coffins, ruins offered dwindling points of aesthetic stability as well as symptoms of mutability in a changing world stamped by Darwinian ruthlessness. This conference proposes to analyze the hybrid function of ruins as they shift from sublime metonymies to broken hints of shattered times and troubled consciousness, focusing not only on the visual motif of ruins but on the function of citation as an attempt to include the ruined pieces of bygone art and cultural systems, whether the purpose be to "shore fragments" against ruin, as in the case of Modernism, or to challenge and deconstruct present exhaustion and past master discourses, as in the case of post-modernism. The postmodern emphasis on remains, from Ackroyd to Ishiguro or Stoppard, on textual experimentation with broken fragments, the function of architecture and visual motifs will be of interest, showing that twentieth-century British art and fiction revisit ruins not only as the broken pieces of a vanished past, but as artificial to begin with. Emphasis on architecture will necessarily include cultural context, and moments of acute fragmentation such as the Blitz, the British equivalent of the Twin Towers, faultlines leaving not only the smell of smouldering remains, but a division between before and after, an intense sense of the collapse of ideologies and promises. The ultimate negotiation of the bankruptcy of meaning may lead to repetition and elegy or parody, or to the intense attempt to create an ephemeral art retaining the traces of a glorious past but displacing them, leading to brief presences and vanishing points, as residue becomes resistance and art articulates waste. From marcpiel at interdesign.fr Sun Jan 30 13:34:03 2011 From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:34:03 +0100 Subject: [ilds] =?windows-1252?q?Cun=E9gonde?= In-Reply-To: References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> Message-ID: <4D45D94B.2090908@interdesign.fr> This is a complete coincidence, but I watched tonight a film from the Canadian Film Board, titled "Le d?clin de l'empire am?ricain" It was like a film on human sexual nature. Nothing to do with porno. Don't know if there is an english version. Probably! It was in French and even more difficult, in French Canadian. Everyone who judges LD on sexual grounds should see it. Perhaps you can find it, for the next 7 days on the Internet at www. arte.com Arte is the French/German TV station in Europe. Normally they allow you to see recent programs for 7 days. Hope you manage to see it. Best, Marc www.arte.com Le 30/01/11 17:30, Bruce Redwine a ?crit : > Marc's explanation is both erudite and relevant, but I suspect what appealed to LGD's sense of humor was Richard Pine's definition of "the cunt on which the > sexual business of the world hinged." Durrell admired Rabelais, often talked about him (which we haven't), and this name is just the sort of grotesque nonsense the great Frenchman would have come up with. Cun?gonde, Durrell's Latex doll-woman, keeping his narrator comfort in his old age, is outrageously ridiculous ? and so is her name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 30, 2011, at 5:25 AM, Marc Piel wrote: > >> Can I add a little uncontrived bit? >> >> Cun?gonde is a medieval given name, derived from >> the Germanic "k?hn"= daring, and "gund"=combat, >> and means "one who fears nothing. " >> It was fairly common until the thirteenth century >> in Germany, Flanders and Poland. But the >> unfortunate jokes that it's pronunciation allows, >> in France, have quickly shelved it. It would seem >> that it has only been used 23 times sine 1900. The >> pronounciation suggests: idiocy, not very bright, >> candidly stupid, hollow, etc.... >> >> "Gonde" is french but "cune" is not! >> >> Marc Piel >> >> >> >> Le 29/01/11 22:32, Richard Pine a ?crit : >>> In my participation in the LD documentary in 1998 (BBC) I did suggest that >>> 'Cunegonde' was a play on 'Cune' = cunt and 'gonde' = french for 'hinge'. And >>> yes, there is the Candide con(sic) nection but I didn't raise (sic) this in the >>> tv prog. RP >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Bruce Redwine >>> To: "gifford at fdu.edu"; "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" >>> >>> Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:28:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse >>> >>> Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for >>> Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty >>> minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women on >>> this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile >>> behavior. >>> >>> BR >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: >>> >>>> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Wasn't me! RP >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>>>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>>>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this >>>> >>>> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: >>>> Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as >>>> well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after >>>> those purse strings for a long time! >>>> >>>> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and >>>> it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that >>>> the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied >>>> Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I >>>> wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this >>>> regard across Durrell's works over time. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> James > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 15:02:10 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 15:02:10 -0800 Subject: [ilds] =?windows-1252?q?Le_d=E9clin_de_l=27empire_am=E9ricain?= In-Reply-To: <4D45D94B.2090908@interdesign.fr> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> <4D45D94B.2090908@interdesign.fr> Message-ID: <4D45EDF2.5000308@gmail.com> Hi Marc, I remember waiting for the film's sequel, "Les Invasions barbares," when it first hit theatres -- I lived in Edmonton at the time, which has a good sized Franco-Albertan community, so the film had a long run. I'd agree, it merits thematic comparison with Durrell's works. Both films are well worth seeing, and for those who find Quebecois difficult (like me...), they're easily available with subtitles. Best, James On 30/01/11 1:34 PM, Marc Piel wrote: > This is a complete coincidence, but I watched > tonight a film from the Canadian Film Board, > titled "Le d?clin de l'empire am?ricain" > > It was like a film on human sexual nature. Nothing > to do with porno. Don't know if there is an > english version. Probably! It was in French and > even more difficult, in French Canadian. Everyone > who judges LD on sexual grounds should see it. > > Perhaps you can find it, for the next 7 days on > the Internet at > www. arte.com > Arte is the French/German TV station in Europe. > Normally they allow you to see recent programs for > 7 days. > > Hope you manage to see it. > Best, > Marc > > www.arte.com > > Le 30/01/11 17:30, Bruce Redwine a ?crit : >> Marc's explanation is both erudite and relevant, but I suspect what appealed to LGD's sense of humor was Richard Pine's definition of "the cunt on which the >> sexual business of the world hinged." Durrell admired Rabelais, often talked about him (which we haven't), and this name is just the sort of grotesque nonsense the great Frenchman would have come up with. Cun?gonde, Durrell's Latex doll-woman, keeping his narrator comfort in his old age, is outrageously ridiculous ? and so is her name. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Jan 30, 2011, at 5:25 AM, Marc Piel wrote: >> >>> Can I add a little uncontrived bit? >>> >>> Cun?gonde is a medieval given name, derived from >>> the Germanic "k?hn"= daring, and "gund"=combat, >>> and means "one who fears nothing. " >>> It was fairly common until the thirteenth century >>> in Germany, Flanders and Poland. But the >>> unfortunate jokes that it's pronunciation allows, >>> in France, have quickly shelved it. It would seem >>> that it has only been used 23 times sine 1900. The >>> pronounciation suggests: idiocy, not very bright, >>> candidly stupid, hollow, etc.... >>> >>> "Gonde" is french but "cune" is not! >>> >>> Marc Piel >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 29/01/11 22:32, Richard Pine a ?crit : >>>> In my participation in the LD documentary in 1998 (BBC) I did suggest that >>>> 'Cunegonde' was a play on 'Cune' = cunt and 'gonde' = french for 'hinge'. And >>>> yes, there is the Candide con(sic) nection but I didn't raise (sic) this in the >>>> tv prog. RP >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>> From: Bruce Redwine >>>> To: "gifford at fdu.edu"; "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:28:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse >>>> >>>> Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for >>>> Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty >>>> minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women on >>>> this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile >>>> behavior. >>>> >>>> BR >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>>> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wasn't me! RP >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: >>>>>>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that >>>>>>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I >>>>>>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this >>>>> >>>>> Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: >>>>> Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as >>>>> well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after >>>>> those purse strings for a long time! >>>>> >>>>> Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and >>>>> it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that >>>>> the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied >>>>> Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I >>>>> wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this >>>>> regard across Durrell's works over time. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> James >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ILDS mailing list >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 15:05:24 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 15:05:24 -0800 Subject: [ilds] when did Durrell begin St Joseph's? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D45EEB4.1090007@gmail.com> I should have added, it was when he was nine. The parental resentment is certainly a part of that moment when he describes it in fiction in /Pied Piper of Lovers/. As I've argued elsewhere, it's a Father England / Mother India division as well. Notably, both parents die in the novel too, and the father's death is dreamed of in distinctly Oedipal terms. Cheers, James On 30/01/11 2:22 AM, Rony Alfandary wrote: > Hello all, > I am current reading them both simultaneously. there are narked > difference - MacNiven is indeed full of detail and excellent source for > further research. there are many discrepancies - for instance, when did > Durrell begin St Joseph's? when he was six (Bowker) or Nine (MacNiven)? > it is of some interest to me as i am working on the theme of Durrell's > resentment towards his parents vis-a-vis this first exile. > Rony > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds From lalexsternthal at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 14:40:43 2011 From: lalexsternthal at gmail.com (Lee Sternthal) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:40:43 -0800 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: will Alexandria become more secular again, never to return to Durrell's Cosmpopolitan city, but perhaps a step back in that direction? that would be a dream. i'm afraid not, though. i'm afraid of who will fill the ensuing power vacuum should the present regime fall. i imagine Durrell would have questions (and fears) about this as well. On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Peters, John U wrote: > The unfolding revolution in Egypt raises any number of questions, not > least of which is this: What would L.D. make of it all? Or would he even > try? Any thoughts? JP > ________________________________________ > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca] > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:00 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 > > Send ILDS mailing list submissions to > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. The Dark Labyrinth (Bruce Redwine) > 2. Revolt of Aphrodite (James Gifford) > 3. OMG 17 - London (James Gifford) > 4. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Denise Tart & David Green) > 5. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) > 6. Names (Bruce Redwine) > 7. Re: Names (James Gifford) > 8. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine) > 9. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Anne R Zahlan) > 10. online bibliography (James Gifford) > 11. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine) > 12. Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford) > 13. MacNiven Bio (William Apt) > 14. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com) > 15. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine) > 16. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford) > 17. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green) > 18. Re: MacNiven Bio (James Gifford) > 19. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green) > 20. the longer response to Bruce (James Gifford) > 21. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) > 22. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine) > 23. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine) > 24. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine) > 25. Re: Names (Richard Pine) > 26. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Richard Pine) > 27. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine) > 28. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine) > 29. the purse (James Gifford) > 30. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com) > 31. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) > 32. Re: the purse (Bruce Redwine) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:55:05 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Meta, > > Thanks for picking up on this important topic/novel. Re Durrell's choice > of personal names in The Dark Labyrinth, the first consideration is that he > himself called the novel an "extended morality" (Durrell-Miller Letters, > 1962, 1963, p. 201), i.e., an allegory. And allegories, as you know, > personify ideas. The big examples of that form, in English, are Spenser's > Faerie Queene and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. These are both Renaissance > works, early and late, so once again we have Durrell harkening back to the > great period of English lit. In this regard, the novel's most interesting > character, Campion, is also the name of a Renaissance medical doctor and > poet, Thomas Campion (1567-1620). Durrell's usage of names fits the > allegorical tradition. He also does this, however, elsewhere in his > fiction, and I'd venture to say that the names of Durrell's characters most > always mean something special They are rarely, if ever, arbitrary. It's > useful to recall that Durrell himse! > lf considered going into the medical profession and instead became a poet. > Thus, Campion is a good alter ego for the author himself. > > I agree that the "Roof of the World" chapter in The Dark Labyrinth is one > of the best Durrell ever wrote. He pulls it off, writing about a Utopian > place, and succeeds where James Hilton in Lost Horizon does not succeed in > describing his Shangri-La. Hilton's Utopia is mawkish, Durrell's is not. > Of course, Durrell's mountaintop realm is very Romantic, but the irony is > Romantic too, the sad self-consciousness that forces the narrator to > conclude, "The roof of the world did not really exist, except in their own > imaginations." That statement echoes again and again throughout Durrell's > oeuvre. It reminds me that repetitive "Boum" in Forster's Marabar caves. > > Much remains to be talked about in this extraordinary novel. On a personal > note, when I first read it in 1962, I recall that when Fearmax meets his > fate in the labyrinth, at the end of "In the Darkness," I was terrified. > Durrell can tell a good horror story. Durrell's terror, however, later > turns into a kind of Romantic Irony. > > Best wishes on your translation into Slovenian. > > > > Bruce > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:58 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like > TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the > Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in > Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark > Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating > Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of > his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into > the preface of the book. > > > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. > dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about > Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, > please let me know if it's worth reading. > > > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a > future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the > ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected > to my great disappointment. > > > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > > > Meta Cerar, > > Slovenia > > > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On > Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, > indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose > them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll > Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of > fright? > > > > > > Bruce > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >> > >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic > Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >> > >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them > when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something > 18th century about it. > >> > >> David > >> > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/d8b9a62a/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:10:33 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] Revolt of Aphrodite > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4322B9.4040002 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > I agree that /Revolt/ is much overlooked, and I see it as remarkably > contemporary today. As for scoffing at Durrell's "middlebrow" works, > there's been a steady stream of critical work done -- I don't think any > of the academics scoff. Instead, I think they're often just more > difficult to get (they've been in & out of print and often appeared > first through small presses rather than Faber), and they haven't had the > same spotlight as his major books. > > As for filthy lucre, I could see that for /White Eagles/ (though still > an interesting work), but /Cefalu/ first appeared through the Poetry > London imprint, which certainly wouldn't have earned Durrell a great > deal, especially with Tambimuttu at the helm... > > Jan Morris had high praise for /Sicilian Carousel/ as well: > > Morris, Jan. "Durrell - on a Tourist Bus?" /Encounter/ 49.3 (September > 1977): 77-79. > > The discussion of art in /Cefalu/ is fascinating as well, at least as a > revelation of Durrell's interests and readings. > > Best, > James > > On 27/01/11 10:47 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > Reading /Aphrodite's Revolt,/ or periphrasis of same, is a good idea. > > Long overdue, for me, anyway. Think I'll take Grove up on this. Ken's > > comment about the Greek island books (which I'd expand to include Sicily > > and the Tyrrhenian Sea) bears serious consideration. David Green > > deserves full credit for turning our eyes to the islands ("no tongue: > > all eyes: be silent"). Undoubtedly, Durrell's "potboilers" were done for > > "filthy lucre," but I find them most interesting and provocative. > > Durrell, for all his protean productivity, was probably one of Isaiah > > Berlin's "hedgehogs," more of a possessed Dostoevsky than a foxy > > Tolstoy. That's to say, he was a man of just a few obsessions (and > > demons), and these got continually reworked and replayed throughout his > > /oeuvre/. So, I find it instructive to uncover these themes and tropes > > in his self-acknowledged "minor" works. E.g., /The Dark Labyrinth, White > > Eagles over Serbia,/ and /Sicilian Carousel./ I sense these are often > > scoffed at, but I think this view mistaken ? highbrow priggishness. To > > emphasize what I said before, authors don't always know what they doing, > > and whether Durrell knew it or not, his potboilers seem to me as > > revealing (and probably at least as enjoyable) as his "serious" work > > intended "for all time." > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > > wrote: > > > >> I've enjoyed the responses to David's post, but in my case my silence > >> simply means that I'm busy and haven't had much to say. There are a > >> couple of items about Norman Douglas and Patrick Leigh Fermor that > >> I'll pass on as soon as I can put a few coherent paragraphs together, > >> but in the meantime I'll second Ken's positive comment about The Greek > >> Islands. And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! > >> They're the most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and > >> deserve more attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a > >> chapter-by-chapter analysis of them, but perhaps someone else could > >> this summer. I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc > >> describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ken Gammage > >> Sent: Jan 25, 2011 5:29 PM > >> To: Denise Tart & David Green, "ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> " > >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the > >> listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports > >> your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that > >> resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from > >> Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for > >> the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often > >> beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often > >> responding directly and privately to the poster without > >> necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes > >> contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find > >> this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) > >> You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the > >> artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of > >> disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like > >> Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the > >> last page of my Italy website:www.travelogorrhea.com > >> > >> Viva Durrell! > >> Kennedy Gammage > >> ken.gammage at directed.com > >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > >> [mailto: > ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On > >> Behalf Of*Denise Tart & David Green > >> *Sent:*Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > >> *To:*Durrel;DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > >> > >> *Subject:*[ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other > >> contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in > >> Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to > >> ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of > >> Durrell and his works? > >> > >> There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious > >> discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me > >> and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared > >> without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far > >> between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to > >> academic journals. > >> There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony > >> Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that > >> she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. > >> Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the > >> only member to publicly respond. > >> Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no > >> longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy > >> about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an > >> aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in > >> endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the > >> cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer > >> to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in > >> their own right? > >> Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who > >> used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a > >> terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at > >> the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and > >> works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > >> Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, > >> "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > >> Yours, somewhat puzzled, > >> David Green > >> 16 William Street > >> Marrickville NSW 2204 > >> Australia > >> > >> This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > >> information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > >> whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > >> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > >> telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:35:52 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] OMG 17 - London > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4328A8.8040003 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > I should add, I typed in "15" by accident, thinking back to the Paris > conference. (head hung in shame). London will be the 17th On Miracle > Ground, offering us a lucky prime number (and a Fermat Prime at that!). > > Please create a substantial buzz in anticipation of the formal > announcements! > > Best, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:21:09 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: > Message-ID: <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2 at DenisePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Meta, > > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been > able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in > Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most > beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine > Venus. > > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel > type > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia > (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > > etc etc > > we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a > land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money > guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > > David Green > Terra Australis Incognito > > > From: Meta Cerar > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like > TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the > Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in > Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark > Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating > Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian - to be published at the 100th anniversary of > his birth (February 2012) - and would love to include this symbolism into > the preface of the book. > > > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this > particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it > as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's > influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me > know if it's worth reading. > > > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future > Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the > ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected > to my great disappointment. > > > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > > > Meta Cerar, > > Slovenia > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On > Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, > indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose > them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll > Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of > fright? > > > > > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > > It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic > Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > > > > btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when > reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th > century about it. > > > > David > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/2e2e39f8/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:21:01 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D43333D.9070101 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > > And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > > most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > > attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > > of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > Let's plan for it this summer. > > I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > "which satisfied the law." > > "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > from myself to myself" > > "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > contractual obligations." > > "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > though Rome burns." > > I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > on their word and sociability. > > The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > face." > > I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > poetics) are present here. > > At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > Best, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:20:13 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: [ilds] Names > To: Denise Tart & David Green , > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's > surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty > mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites > "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my > purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers > to more than coins. > > Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies > to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador > has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being > whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > Meta, > > > > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been > able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in > Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most > beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine > Venus. > > > > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > > > > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist > rebel type > > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia > (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > > > > etc etc > > > > we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a > land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > > > > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money > guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > > > > David Green > > Terra Australis Incognito > > > > From: Meta Cerar > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like > TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the > Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in > Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark > Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating > Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of > his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into > the preface of the book. > > > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. > dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about > Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, > please let me know if it's worth reading. > > > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a > future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the > ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected > to my great disappointment. > > > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > > > Meta Cerar, > > Slovenia > > > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On > Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, > indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose > them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll > Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of > fright? > > > > > > Bruce > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >> > >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic > Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >> > >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them > when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something > 18th century about it. > >> > >> David > >> > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/95341739/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:26:53 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D43349D.7020301 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when > talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but > I can't recall where... > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > > Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just > > have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, > > however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's > > "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd > > mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > > > *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this > > applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the > > ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be > > Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > >> Meta, > >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have > >> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the > >> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes > >> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes > >> through in the Marine Venus. > >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist > >> rebel type > >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain > >> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >> etc etc > >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > >> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west > >> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to > >> them. > >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example > >> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >> David Green > >> Terra Australis Incognito > >> > >> *From:*Meta Cerar > >> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, > >> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends > >> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most > >> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list > >> members wrote recently. > >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or > >> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently > >> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the > >> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to > >> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > >> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. > >> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci > >> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar > >> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a > >> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > >> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and > >> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly > >> neglected to my great disappointment. > >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >> Meta Cerar, > >> Slovenia > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > ]*On > >> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine > >> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> > >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in > >> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD > >> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: > >> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. > >> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > >> Bruce > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" > >> > wrote: > >> > >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > >>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >>> > >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > >>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern > >>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them > >>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there > >>> something 18th century about it. > >>> David > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:33:50 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <19F230A3-2799-4CC4-B1FA-A16EBB742E4B at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Thanks. That confirms the linkage. It's amazing how saturated Durrell was > in Renaissance English. He probably dreamed in blank verse. > > > BR > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:26 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when > > talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but > > I can't recall where... > > > > Best, > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > >> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just > >> have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, > >> however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's > >> "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd > >> mind, probably refers to more than coins. > >> > >> *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > >> Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this > >> applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the > >> ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be > >> Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> > >>> Meta, > >>> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have > >>> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the > >>> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes > >>> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes > >>> through in the Marine Venus. > >>> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >>> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >>> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist > >>> rebel type > >>> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >>> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain > >>> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >>> etc etc > >>> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > >>> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west > >>> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to > >>> them. > >>> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example > >>> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >>> David Green > >>> Terra Australis Incognito > >>> > >>> *From:*Meta Cerar > >>> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >>> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >>> > >>> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, > >>> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends > >>> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most > >>> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list > >>> members wrote recently. > >>> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or > >>> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently > >>> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the > >>> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to > >>> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > >>> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > >>> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. > >>> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci > >>> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar > >>> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > >>> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a > >>> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > >>> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and > >>> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly > >>> neglected to my great disappointment. > >>> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >>> Meta Cerar, > >>> Slovenia > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > >>> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > ]*On > >>> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine > >>> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >>> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >>> > >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >>> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in > >>> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD > >>> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: > >>> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. > >>> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > >>> Bruce > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" > >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > >>>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >>>> > >>>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > >>>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern > >>>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >>>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them > >>>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there > >>>> something 18th century about it. > >>>> David > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:55:10 -0500 > From: "Anne R Zahlan" > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: , > Message-ID: <5A956F8BADFF4A439E45C75187D5EB94 at annezahlan1> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Jamie: > > Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site > etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and > careful grad student. > > (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) > > Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. > > Love, > > Anne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Gifford" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Hello all, > > > > For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated > > since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: > > > > http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm > > > > Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of > > items to add to it still... > > > > Best, > > James > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:35:44 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] online bibliography > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4344C0.2030000 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Anne, > > Good to hear from you! > > For everyone on the list, please consider this an open call for help > with the online bibliography. James Clawson and Grove Koger have > volunteered (at the last conference) to get involved, but I do suspect > that maintaining an online bibliography will necessitate a level of > technical expertise and free time that the three of us will find > challenging... Grove is doing admirable work keeping the print > bibliography going in /Deus Loci/ as the formal record, but there's a > lot of secondary criticism out there still, especially in other languages. > > I first launched the online bibliography as a way of making such work > easily available in a searchable format. That creative commons idea > would still be my preference -- what say you all? Proprietary systems > are easy to transfer to (RefWorks), but then they're proprietary and > hard to open up publicly. > > Does anyone have experience with RefShare? > > Alternatively, the bibliography is already available (in a rough form) > in BibTex, which is easy to update and is compatible with almost any > citation management software, including many OpenSource and free > applications. > > As I noted in the first launch, "The Koger-MacNiven Bibliography has > been particularly useful, and Susan MacNiven's encouragement has been > greatly appreciated. Other major bibliographers include Cecil L. Peaden, > Susan Vander Closter, James Brigham, and Alan G. Thomas." Those are all > still excellent resources. > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 1:55 PM, Anne R Zahlan wrote: > > Hi Jamie: > > > > Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web > site > > etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented > and > > careful grad student. > > > > (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) > > > > Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. > > > > Love, > > > > Anne > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "James Gifford" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > > >> Hello all, > >> > >> For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated > >> since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: > >> > >> http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm > >> > >> Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of > >> items to add to it still... > >> > >> Best, > >> James > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:38:19 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > James, > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of EB, I'll check it for you. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > > > Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > > and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > > Let's plan for it this summer. > > > > I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > > works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > > and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > > > Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > > ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > > in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > > Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > > antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > > that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > > authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > > > "which satisfied the law." > > > > "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > > from myself to myself" > > > > "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > > contractual obligations." > > > > "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > > though Rome burns." > > > > I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > > the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > > explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > > can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > > asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > > terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > > but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > > law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > > on their word and sociability. > > > > The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > > > "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > > or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > > > The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > > clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > > destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > > the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > > Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > > Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > > edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > > > "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > > [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > > government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > > of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > > sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > > that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > > egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > > another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > > to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > > and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > > police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > > free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > > > I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > > that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > > face." > > > > I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > > Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > > in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > > antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > > poetics) are present here. > > > > At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > > lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > > > Best, > > James > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/6cffe788/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:50:12 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D434824.1090100 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > James, > > > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > >> wrote: > >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >> > >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >> Let's plan for it this summer. > >> > >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >> > >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >> > >> "which satisfied the law." > >> > >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >> from myself to myself" > >> > >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >> contractual obligations." > >> > >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > >> though Rome burns." > >> > >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >> on their word and sociability. > >> > >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > >> > >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >> > >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >> > >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >> > >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >> face." > >> > >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >> poetics) are present here. > >> > >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >> > >> Best, > >> James > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:04:17 -0800 > From: William Apt > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and > synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > narrative > is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations > well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it > was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse > to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any > one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it > is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > he > was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say > that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/41868c41/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:10:26 -0500 (EST) > From: gkoger at mindspring.com > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: > < > 28880300.1296256226985.JavaMail.root at elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/4378b9f5/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:26:15 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <19707863-1F2E-4B09-9EB6-EBF117CEF73B at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > James, > > Yes, the EB 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you > quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and > "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > > Under Socialism"). > > > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > > comparison between past editions. > > > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > > > Thanks! > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> James, > >> > >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a > Greek > >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >>> > >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/1e2ac9a9/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:42:39 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D43546F.7070904 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Alas, *I* don't have the 14th edition, just access to the 11th... > > That said, a quick check in Google Books has Stephen Lukes remarking on > Kropotkin's entry on Anarchism and Mutual Aid with a quotation that > matches verbatim the 11th edition, but Lukes' citation is very clearly > to the 1929-30 vol. 1 14th edition 9p. 873). I think that solves the > mystery. Durrell's personal copy of the 14th edition would have carried > at least a version of Kropotkin's 1905 entry for the 11th edition. I > admire Lukes' work, so I'll trust it until I can check a 14h edition > copy in the stacks. > > But, would that Zeno reference have stuck, if Durrell had even read it, > more than 20 years later? Dunno, but it does open a window of possibility. > > Thanks for the help! And sorry to bore the rest of y'all -- any takers > on the /Revolt/ suggestions? > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 3:26 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > James, > > > > Yes, the /EB/ 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you > > quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and > > "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > >> Hi Bruce, > >> > >> Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > >> (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > >> Under Socialism"). > >> > >> As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > >> largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > >> cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > >> can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > >> comparison between past editions. > >> > >> I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> James > >> > >> On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >>> James, > >>> > >>> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > >>> > >>> > >>> Bruce > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a > Greek > >>>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >>>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but > take > >>>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >>>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >>>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >>>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >>>> > >>>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >>>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community > without > >>>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >>>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >>>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >>>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >>>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >>>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable > enough > >>>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the > frontiers > >>>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >>>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money > -- > >>>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:44:40 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: > Message-ID: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB at DenisePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > William, > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. > yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate > at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as > being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title > suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to > his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative > madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper > picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad > to this commentary?? > > David Green > > > From: William Apt > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and > synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative > is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations > well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it > was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse > to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any > one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it > is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to > say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/ed6e4af7/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:01:26 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4358D6.1090605 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi David, > > Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, > it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first > and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more > speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that > MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it > took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. > > Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not > without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > William, > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to > > you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does > > speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who > > as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as > > his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence > > particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness > > of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to > > him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is > > currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > > David Green > > > > *From:* William Apt > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > > and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > > narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > > obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > > it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > > recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my > > taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's > > book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except > > to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > > > -- > > WILLIAM APT > > Attorney at Law > > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > > Ste 205 > > Austin TX 78746 > > 512/708-8300 > > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:35:04 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: , > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > James, > > I am noting that I have the revised edition, much thumbed. Yes, Bowker is a > sharp writer but writing a biography of any complex 'genius' would be hard > task as I am sure Michael Haag has discovered, especially if you want to go > beyond a chronicle into a analysis of motive, muse, the meaning of self in > relation to the world. Things are bound to slip. That said I enjoy > biographies as much or more sometimes than the subjects own writings. > > Have been waiting for old Haag's biog for a while - in fact I'm getting > that > 'when's it going to be wine o'clock feeling if'n you take my meaning? > > David Whitewine > > btw, am hoping to get sorted a decent look at Durrell's islomania; form to > be determined. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "James Gifford" > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:01 AM > To: > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > Hi David, > > > > Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, > > it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first > > and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more > > speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that > > MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it > > took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. > > > > Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not > > without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. > > > > Best, > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> William, > >> I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to > >> you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does > >> speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who > >> as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as > >> his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence > >> particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness > >> of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to > >> him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is > >> currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > >> David Green > >> > >> *From:* William Apt > >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > >> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio > >> > >> Dear all: > >> I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > >> and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > >> narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > >> obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > >> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > >> it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > >> recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my > >> taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's > >> book, and whether it is worthwhile? > >> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > >> he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except > >> to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > >> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > >> Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > >> > >> -- > >> WILLIAM APT > >> Attorney at Law > >> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > >> Ste 205 > >> Austin TX 78746 > >> 512/708-8300 > >> 512/708-8011 FAX > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:53:28 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D436508.1030104 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let > others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered > ones. > > >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about > >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real > >> issue. > > > > 1. I do. > > > >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the > >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. > > > > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what > > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do > > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how > > energetically expressed. > > Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" > are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I > consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than > inextricable differences. > > I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my > moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from > being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a > public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! > > >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > > > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence > > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its > > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the > > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. > > I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an > occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps > should have noted to joke overtly. ;) > > >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and > >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an > >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of > >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. > >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > > > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators > > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the > > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and > > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those > > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And > > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary > > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then > > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a > > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. > > I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and > keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be > a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to > consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented > open discourse. > > It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling > emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same > token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the > cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few > occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my > hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). > > The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy > asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not > fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome > such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. > > >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > >>> Durrell's life and work. > >> > >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, > > > > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. > > I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm > certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to > light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to > some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements > there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. > > That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. > Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the > points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives > on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that > we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for > incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads > to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. > > An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. > Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his > personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as > well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal > with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has > accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable > disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations > against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock > journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. > > >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the > >> opposite), and I > >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. > > > > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators > > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and > > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. > > Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the > road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... > > >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I > >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic > > queries made public? I'd like to see them. > > I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, > etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any > chance of being of public interest. > > > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. > > Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our > animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. > > > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled > > hook & bait: [that's me] > > > >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few > >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] > > > > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I > > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in > > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or > > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... > > > > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de > > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time > > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid > > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in > > considerable detail. > > I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that > distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly > living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had > rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I > hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the > imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, > which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not > saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's > Nazi ties would suggest. > > Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. > Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of > skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but > not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. > > > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the > > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' > > Negative Capability? > > > > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. > > I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. > What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always > going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant > complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' > masks. > > > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's > > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for > > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're > > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... > > > > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." > > Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out > to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at > instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described > events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the > gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where > the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area > (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally > achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being > myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are > invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... > > > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second > guess > > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously > > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. > > > > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing > > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the > > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, > > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most > > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not > > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank > > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980). > > Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a > matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine > the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) > suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence > Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical > matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, > contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked > interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive > matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the > book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) > > But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to > keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. > > > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is > > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? > > > > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. > > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then > > "expiate" is exactly the right word. > > Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence > "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) > > You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you > mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and > Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't > think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? > Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will > lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the > Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide > some skeletons as well... > > Best, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:40:12 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D436FFC.1080302 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > As always, Ilyas, you have a keen eye and generous description of the > things it spies. > > All apologies for my provincially dull skirmishes with Bruce, but at > least we're keeping our blades dull as well. Hopefully this recent jump > in activity on the list will return us to the "vibrant balance of the > scholarly, academic, casual and amateur enthusiast." > > As for Charles, > > > Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? > > Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke > > booke > > I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll > have to try his cell... > > Best, > James > > On 26/01/11 2:14 AM, Ilyas Khan wrote: > > Ken, > > > > You make the key point in my view. I am active (and find tremendously > > rewarding) my participation as ?poster? and ?lurker? on a number of > > other such venues, and the key difference is that despite much hand > > wringing on this listserv, there is an incredible tendency towards > > clique-ishness, made all the more provincially dull by the continuation > > of long standing personal skirmishes that the vast majority of us do not > > understand or appreciate. > > > > My own attitude has been, therefore, to focus on two things. Firstly, my > > own love of LD means that I usually find nuggets here, but I also have > > drifted towards a personal reply instead of a reply to the forum as a > > whole. Secondly, when the usual small clique start squabbling or cannot > > see the impact of their language on others, I simply ignore them and > > enjoy the underlying conversation from which I have learnt so much. At > > times people such as James and Charles have tried to bring the > > conversation back to the ?relevant?, but even they, I think, sometimes > > tire of the same old repetition. > > > > There is a message in reply to David?s post that also raises the issue > > of how some academics have been teased off this listserv from posting > > stuff that is too academic. I agree that if other venues can maintain a > > vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur > > enthusiast, then so can we. > > > > On that basis therefore, David, I for one will try to become more > > active. I value this little part of my life, and unless we all step upto > > the plate, we have only ourselves to blame. Having made my points above, > > I am hoping I can become one of the non-scholarly or non-academic > > participants who has an opinion and a constructive point of view. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > On 26/01/2011 00:29, "Ken Gammage" wrote: > > > > Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the > > listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports your > > argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in > > detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and > > James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several > > years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many > > thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and > > privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to > > publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The > > Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated > > strictly by lucre.) > > You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery > > cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my > > poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please > > see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy > > website: www.travelogorrhea.com > > > > Viva Durrell! > > > > Kennedy Gammage > > ken.gammage at directed.com > > > > > > > > *From:* ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > > [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] *On Behalf Of *Denise Tart & > > David Green > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > > *To:* Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > > *Subject:* [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > > > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other > > contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in > > Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to > > ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of > > Durrell and his works? > > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious > > discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and > > some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared > > without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far > > between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to > > academic journals. > > > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony > > Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she > > can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless > > some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only > > member to publicly respond. > > > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no > > longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy > > about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an > > aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in > > endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the > > cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to > > items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own > > right? > > > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who > > used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal > > illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment > > to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the > > Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > > > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, > > "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > > > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > > > David Green > > > > 16 William Street > > Marrickville NSW 2204 > > Australia > > > > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > > information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > > whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > > recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > > telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:00:12 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: Denise Tart & David Green , > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I haven't read MacNiven in toto but agree with David's take on Bowker. I > am not convinced, however, with Bowker's attempt to rationalize Durrell's > "creative madness," especially with respect to his occasional treatment of > his wives, sometimes brutally. > > > BR > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > William, > > > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. > yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate > at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as > being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title > suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to > his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative > madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper > picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad > to this commentary?? > > > > David Green > > > > From: William Apt > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > > Dear all: > > > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. > Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and > whether it is worthwhile? > > > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to > say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > > > -- > > WILLIAM APT > > Attorney at Law > > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > > Ste 205 > > Austin TX 78746 > > 512/708-8300 > > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/a3dc8a64/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:04:14 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <4850D6A6-F241-4278-BAD7-D7892AD32434 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > The "Justine ts?" The Justine type script? Whereas Charles is, I wish him > well. > > > BR > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 5:40 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > As for Charles, > > > >> Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? > >> Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke > >> booke > > > > I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll > > have to try his cell... > > > > Best, > > James > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/433eac65/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:20:47 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Bill, > > Any attempt to write a biography of Lawrence Durrell is a mind-boggling > enterprise, both in terms of the complexity of the man himself and the huge > amount of material required to absorb and analyze. He was definitely a > genius but also a very flawed one, which is probably the way we want our > geniuses to be. It was a pleasure to offer you the little assistance I > could. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:04 PM, William Apt wrote: > > > Dear all: > > > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. > Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and > whether it is worthwhile? > > > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to > say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > > > -- > > WILLIAM APT > > Attorney at Law > > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > > Ste 205 > > Austin TX 78746 > > 512/708-8300 > > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:03:39 -0800 (PST) > From: Richard Pine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <192927.66531.qm at web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Wasn't me! RP > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bruce Redwine > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM > Subject: [ilds] Names > > Pursewarden. ?Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's > surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. ?Or maybe I?just?have a dirty > mind. ?Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. ?The OED, however, cites > "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. ?Cf. Iago's "Who steals my > purse > steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to > more > than coins. > > > Mountolive. ?New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > Passion > and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? ?Not clear how this applies to Sir > David, > unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own > Passion > or?passions?to deal with. ?This may be Durrell being whimsical and > irreverent. > ?Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Meta, > >? > >thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been > able to > >find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. > >insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most > beautiful > >island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. > >? > >To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >? > >Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel > type > >Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia > >(Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >? > >etc etc > >? > >we recall in 18th century? English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > booby > >being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land > of > >rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > >? > >I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money > guard) > >or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >? > >David Green > >Terra Australis Incognito > > > > > >From:?Meta Cerar > >Sent:?Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > > >Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like > TRUMAN > >for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof > of the > >World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's > entire > >opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > >? > >If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark > >Labyrinth ?names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently > translating Dark > >Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his > birth > >(February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the > preface of > >the book. > >? > >I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > this > >particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed > it as > >a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's > >influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me > know > >if it's worth reading. > >? > >BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future > >Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > Meditterranean > >but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of > idleness? > >in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great > >disappointment. > >? > >Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >? > >Meta Cerar, > >Slovenia > >? > > > ________________________________ > > >From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?OnBehalf > >Of?Bruce Redwine > >Sent:?Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >To:?Denise Tart & David Green;?ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >? > >Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, > indeed > >throughout Durrell's fiction. ?My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as > >Shakespeare did his low-life characters: ? Mistress Quickly, Doll > Tearsheet, > >Pistol, etc. ?People are their names. ?Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > >? > >? > >Bruce > > > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> > >wrote: > >I especially recommend the?early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > drunken > >speech in front of the Parthenon.?Grove > >> > >>It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > Caradoc's > >>speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic > Caradoc and > >>the? souther classical Parthenon. > >>? > >>btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by?them > when > >>reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th > century > >>about it. > >>? > >>David > >>? > >>? > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/d513fa98/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:18:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Richard Pine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <691071.26582.qm at web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: > > Abnormal Psychology > Abraxas > Almanac > Archimedes > Arrhenius > Asia > Astrology > Astronomy > Calendar > (Central America - May) > (Chronology - Maya) > Circle > Comparative Ethics > Confucius > Cone > Constellation > Cosmogony > Egypt > Equation of Time > Geodesy > Geometry (and Line Geometry) > Indian Philosophy > Infinity > Lhasa > Limit > Mayan Calendar > Mayan Culture > Menstruation > Nashe > Number & Numerals > Observatory > Palmistry > Ptolemy > Serpents > Sphere > Stoics > Zero > Tibet > Tides > Time > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: James Gifford > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries.? If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!? I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > James, > > > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > >> wrote: > >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >> > >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >> Let's plan for it this summer. > >> > >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >> > >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >> > >> "which satisfied the law." > >> > >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >> from myself to myself" > >> > >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >> contractual obligations." > >> > >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > >> though Rome burns." > >> > >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >> on their word and sociability. > >> > >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > >> > >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >> > >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >> > >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >> > >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >> face." > >> > >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >> poetics) are present here. > >> > >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >> > >> Best, > >> James > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:37:01 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > > > BR > > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > > > Wasn't me! RP > > > > From: Bruce Redwine > > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Cc: Bruce Redwine > > Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM > > Subject: [ilds] Names > > > > Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's > surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty > mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites > "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my > purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers > to more than coins. > > > > Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies > to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador > has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being > whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > >> Meta, > >> > >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been > able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in > Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most > beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine > Venus. > >> > >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >> > >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist > rebel type > >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain > utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >> > >> etc etc > >> > >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a > land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > >> > >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money > guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >> > >> David Green > >> Terra Australis Incognito > >> > >> From: Meta Cerar > >> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like > TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the > Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in > Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > >> > >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark > Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating > Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of > his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into > the preface of the book. > >> > >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. > dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about > Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, > please let me know if it's worth reading. > >> > >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a > future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the > ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected > to my great disappointment. > >> > >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >> > >> Meta Cerar, > >> Slovenia > >> > >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On > Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >> To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, > indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose > them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll > Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of > fright? > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" < > dtart at bigpond.net.au> wrote: > >> > >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >>> > >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic > Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >>> > >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them > when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something > 18th century about it. > >>> > >>> David > >>> > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/47524b25/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 09:06:04 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Thanks. Fascinating. He's plotting his literary future. Note the > interest in space and time. The big interest in the Maya seems strange but > probably has to do with their calendar and time. I haven't checked the > 11th, but when the 11th and 14th were published, their code had not been > broken into, and the Maya were thought to be peaceful and Arcadian. Perhaps > a jungle version of the Roof of the World, if you will. After the glyphs > were deciphered, along with extensive archaeology, it was discovered they > were just the opposite ? highly warlike and bloodthirsty. Mel Gibson's > Apocalypto is not far from the truth. It might be a good exercise for some > energetic graduate student to read all these articles and then compare them > with Durrell's oeuvre. Surely worth an article or two. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:18 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > > > The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: > > > > Abnormal Psychology > > Abraxas > > Almanac > > Archimedes > > Arrhenius > > Asia > > Astrology > > Astronomy > > Calendar > > (Central America - May) > > (Chronology - Maya) > > Circle > > Comparative Ethics > > Confucius > > Cone > > Constellation > > Cosmogony > > Egypt > > Equation of Time > > Geodesy > > Geometry (and Line Geometry) > > Indian Philosophy > > Infinity > > Lhasa > > Limit > > Mayan Calendar > > Mayan Culture > > Menstruation > > Nashe > > Number & Numerals > > Observatory > > Palmistry > > Ptolemy > > Serpents > > Sphere > > Stoics > > Zero > > Tibet > > Tides > > Time > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: James Gifford > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM > > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > > Under Socialism"). > > > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > > comparison between past editions. > > > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > > > Thanks! > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> James, > >> > >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> > >>> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > >>> wrote: > >>>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >>>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >>>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter > analysis > >>>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >>> > >>> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >>> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >>> Let's plan for it this summer. > >>> > >>> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >>> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >>> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >>> > >>> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >>> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >>> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >>> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >>> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >>> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >>> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >>> > >>> "which satisfied the law." > >>> > >>> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > >>> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >>> from myself to myself" > >>> > >>> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >>> contractual obligations." > >>> > >>> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... > even > >>> though Rome burns." > >>> > >>> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >>> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who > are > >>> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >>> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >>> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >>> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >>> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >>> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >>> on their word and sociability. > >>> > >>> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for > Durrell: > >>> > >>> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >>> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >>> > >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a > Greek > >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >>> > >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >>> > >>> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >>> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >>> face." > >>> > >>> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >>> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have > this > >>> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >>> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >>> poetics) are present here. > >>> > >>> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >>> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> James > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/4bc4c895/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:27:22 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] the purse > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D445C0A.30904 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > > > >> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >> > >> Wasn't me! RP > >> > >>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > >>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I > >>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this > > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as > well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after > those purse strings for a long time! > > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and > it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this > regard across Durrell's works over time. > > Cheers, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:31:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: gkoger at mindspring.com > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: > < > 24725023.1296325907489.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > James, > > Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last > reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm has > always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as well as in > the external world. And I've always felt that the central situation isn't > (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. Aren't the books all > about contradictions? > > Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach would be > another reason to look forward to summer! > > Grove > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: James Gifford > >Sent: Jan 28, 2011 2:21 PM > >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > >On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > > >Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >Let's plan for it this summer. > > > >I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > > >Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > > >"which satisfied the law." > > > >"the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >from myself to myself" > > > >"People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >contractual obligations." > > > >"we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > >though Rome burns." > > > >I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > >explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >on their word and sociability. > > > >The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > > >"Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > > >The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > > >"The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >[...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > > >I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >face." > > > >I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > >in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >poetics) are present here. > > > >At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > > >Best, > >James > >_______________________________________________ > >ILDS mailing list > >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:29:21 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D446A91.4070105 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Hi Grove, > > Let's consider this an aim for late April/May? Unless, of course, > there's a chorus from the listserv to get started right away... > > I'd agree about the Firm being more than simply a modern institution in > the books -- I suppose my curiosity relates to the potential for LD to > be talking about coercive authority in that 1968 moment (which Don Kacz > has noted before). Just what *is* the Firm? > > I'm in the midst of a long project relating to poetry networks in the > 1930s and 40s that differ from the High Modernists and Auden group by > virtue of antiauthoritarian politics (or Herbert Read's politics of the > unpolitical), and Durrell's in there though he's peripheral. That is > certainly shaping my readerly perspective at the moment {winks eye at > Bruce}, but it seems surprisingly easy to develop that perspective. > > Cheers, > James > > On 29/01/11 10:31 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > > James, > > > > Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last > > reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm > > has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as > > well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central > > situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. > > Aren't the books all about contradictions? > > > > Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach > > would be another reason to look forward to summer! > > > > Grove > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 32 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:28:48 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse > To: "gifford at fdu.edu" , "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > > Message-ID: <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for > Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty > minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women > on this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male > infantile behavior. > > BR > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford > wrote: > > > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > >> > >>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >>> > >>> Wasn't me! RP > >>> > >>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > >>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I > >>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this > > > > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: > > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as > > well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after > > those purse strings for a long time! > > > > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and > > it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that > > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied > > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I > > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this > > regard across Durrell's works over time. > > > > Cheers, > > James > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > End of ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 > ************************************ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -- ----------------------------------------------- "...but why is the rum gone?!?!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110130/6f499511/attachment.html From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 15:11:58 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 15:11:58 -0800 Subject: [ilds] the purse In-Reply-To: <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> References: <00a601cbbeda$5cf26ad0$1b01a8c0@inv.local> <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2@DenisePC> <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9@earthlink.net> <192927.66531.qm@web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16@earthlink.net> <4D445C0A.30904@gmail.com> <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2@earthlink.net> <753475.5315.qm@web65803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4D4566B8.6000802@interdesign.fr> Message-ID: <4D45F03E.3070300@gmail.com> I noted in /Panic Spring/ Durrell's repeated references to William Dunbar's poem "In Honour of the City of London." Dunbar (1460?c. 1520) was a Scottish poet who allegedly first used, in print, the words "fuck" and "cunt" in 1503. Durrell echoes this poem?s "per se" in his own "Carol on Corfu," first published in 1938 and across his London chapter in /Panic Spring/. Of course, there's Chaucer as well. To some degree, though, I think this is tied to his interest in the language itself rather than purely pubescent predilections. I would also suspect that there's a significant difference between Durrell's use of the terms in the 1930s and 40s from his last years in the 1980s. It's also worth noting, like cow vs. beef, that the word has a good ol'fashioned Anglo-Saxon origin. None of that French or Latin... I do, however, recall a Medieval Lit course in my undergraduate in which "cunt" and "cunning" or "cony" (bunny) were elided, but that appears to be an anachronism when I look to the OED -- the latter two derive from Romance languages and the "bunny" could be a term of endearment rather than abuse, though by the Elizabethans' time it appears to have evolved the modern slang connotations and the "conney" isn't simply a cunning or comely rabbit. Apart from the prurient, I suspect part of this game for Durrell, at least prior to the 1980s, was his interest in the shifts in language itself, in particular his interest in the Elizabethans. The prurient was a bonus, I suspect, rather than a virtue in itself -- we can hardly be surprised to find it in his works, though I doubt the schoolboy giggle was effective even when he first set pen to paper with such things. When he wanted to be direct about it, he was, so I wonder what else was going on apart from grade school humour. Then again, perhaps by the time of /Caesar's Vast Ghost/, he was simplifying or had been simplified... Cheers, James On 30/01/11 5:25 AM, Marc Piel wrote: > Can I add a little uncontrived bit? > > Cun?gonde is a medieval given name, derived from > the Germanic "k?hn"= daring, and "gund"=combat, > and means "one who fears nothing. " > It was fairly common until the thirteenth century > in Germany, Flanders and Poland. But the > unfortunate jokes that it's pronunciation allows, > in France, have quickly shelved it. It would seem > that it has only been used 23 times sine 1900. The > pronounciation suggests: idiocy, not very bright, > candidly stupid, hollow, etc.... > > "Gonde" is french but "cune" is not! > > Marc Piel From james.d.gifford at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 15:20:47 2011 From: james.d.gifford at gmail.com (James Gifford) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 15:20:47 -0800 Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D45F24F.8070100@gmail.com> Perhaps we can hope that the collective will for a better situation will take hold. I suspect that positive change in Egypt would develop the taste for change elsewhere. But, for Durrell, I think stability would have been his preference -- despite my post on his quasi-anarcho views in /Revolt of Aphrodite/, he seems to have mainly wanted the world to level out... To some degree, I think that "stability" is behind much of his pro-British sentiments about Cyprus: less pro-British and more pro-stability. Best, James On 30/01/11 2:40 PM, Lee Sternthal wrote: > will Alexandria become more secular again, never to return to Durrell's > Cosmpopolitan city, but perhaps a step back in that direction? that > would be a dream. i'm afraid not, though. i'm afraid of who will fill > the ensuing power vacuum should the present regime fall. i imagine > Durrell would have questions (and fears) about this as well. > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Peters, John U > wrote: > > The unfolding revolution in Egypt raises any number of questions, > not least of which is this: What would L.D. make of it all? Or > would he even try? Any thoughts? JP From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 30 16:12:09 2011 From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 16:12:09 -0800 Subject: [ilds] The Egyptian Revolution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <729C58BC-9E96-4A12-B886-0FFF811256FB@earthlink.net> I agree. A revolution in Egypt may be good for the bulk of the Egyptian people, but I do not think it augers well for cosmopolitanism ? just the opposite. I expect the country will quickly become more Islamist. As has been pointed out, revolutions are inherently unstable. They may begin proclaiming democratic ideals, but they quickly turn totalitarian ? the famous examples being the French and Russian. But who knows? I doubt that Durrell would have been optimistic ? he'd seen too much. Bruce On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Lee Sternthal wrote: > will Alexandria become more secular again, never to return to Durrell's Cosmpopolitan city, but perhaps a step back in that direction? that would be a dream. i'm afraid not, though. i'm afraid of who will fill the ensuing power vacuum should the present regime fall. i imagine Durrell would have questions (and fears) about this as well. > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Peters, John U wrote: > The unfolding revolution in Egypt raises any number of questions, not least of which is this: What would L.D. make of it all? Or would he even try? Any thoughts? JP > ________________________________________ > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca [ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca] > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:00 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 > > Send ILDS mailing list submissions to > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. The Dark Labyrinth (Bruce Redwine) > 2. Revolt of Aphrodite (James Gifford) > 3. OMG 17 - London (James Gifford) > 4. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Denise Tart & David Green) > 5. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) > 6. Names (Bruce Redwine) > 7. Re: Names (James Gifford) > 8. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine) > 9. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Anne R Zahlan) > 10. online bibliography (James Gifford) > 11. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine) > 12. Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford) > 13. MacNiven Bio (William Apt) > 14. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com) > 15. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine) > 16. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (James Gifford) > 17. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green) > 18. Re: MacNiven Bio (James Gifford) > 19. Re: MacNiven Bio (Denise Tart & David Green) > 20. the longer response to Bruce (James Gifford) > 21. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) > 22. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine) > 23. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (Bruce Redwine) > 24. Re: MacNiven Bio (Bruce Redwine) > 25. Re: Names (Richard Pine) > 26. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Richard Pine) > 27. Re: Names (Bruce Redwine) > 28. Re: Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th (Bruce Redwine) > 29. the purse (James Gifford) > 30. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (gkoger at mindspring.com) > 31. Re: What has happened to the ilds list (James Gifford) > 32. Re: the purse (Bruce Redwine) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:55:05 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: [ilds] The Dark Labyrinth > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Meta, > > Thanks for picking up on this important topic/novel. Re Durrell's choice of personal names in The Dark Labyrinth, the first consideration is that he himself called the novel an "extended morality" (Durrell-Miller Letters, 1962, 1963, p. 201), i.e., an allegory. And allegories, as you know, personify ideas. The big examples of that form, in English, are Spenser's Faerie Queene and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. These are both Renaissance works, early and late, so once again we have Durrell harkening back to the great period of English lit. In this regard, the novel's most interesting character, Campion, is also the name of a Renaissance medical doctor and poet, Thomas Campion (1567-1620). Durrell's usage of names fits the allegorical tradition. He also does this, however, elsewhere in his fiction, and I'd venture to say that the names of Durrell's characters most always mean something special They are rarely, if ever, arbitrary. It's useful to recall that Durrell himse! > lf considered going into the medical profession and instead became a poet. Thus, Campion is a good alter ego for the author himself. > > I agree that the "Roof of the World" chapter in The Dark Labyrinth is one of the best Durrell ever wrote. He pulls it off, writing about a Utopian place, and succeeds where James Hilton in Lost Horizon does not succeed in describing his Shangri-La. Hilton's Utopia is mawkish, Durrell's is not. Of course, Durrell's mountaintop realm is very Romantic, but the irony is Romantic too, the sad self-consciousness that forces the narrator to conclude, "The roof of the world did not really exist, except in their own imaginations." That statement echoes again and again throughout Durrell's oeuvre. It reminds me that repetitive "Boum" in Forster's Marabar caves. > > Much remains to be talked about in this extraordinary novel. On a personal note, when I first read it in 1962, I recall that when Fearmax meets his fate in the labyrinth, at the end of "In the Darkness," I was terrified. Durrell can tell a good horror story. Durrell's terror, however, later turns into a kind of Romantic Irony. > > Best wishes on your translation into Slovenian. > > > > Bruce > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:58 AM, Meta Cerar wrote: > > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > > > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > > > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > > > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > > > Meta Cerar, > > Slovenia > > > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > > > > > > Bruce > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > > > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >> > >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >> > >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. > >> > >> David > >> > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/d8b9a62a/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:10:33 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] Revolt of Aphrodite > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4322B9.4040002 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > I agree that /Revolt/ is much overlooked, and I see it as remarkably > contemporary today. As for scoffing at Durrell's "middlebrow" works, > there's been a steady stream of critical work done -- I don't think any > of the academics scoff. Instead, I think they're often just more > difficult to get (they've been in & out of print and often appeared > first through small presses rather than Faber), and they haven't had the > same spotlight as his major books. > > As for filthy lucre, I could see that for /White Eagles/ (though still > an interesting work), but /Cefalu/ first appeared through the Poetry > London imprint, which certainly wouldn't have earned Durrell a great > deal, especially with Tambimuttu at the helm... > > Jan Morris had high praise for /Sicilian Carousel/ as well: > > Morris, Jan. "Durrell - on a Tourist Bus?" /Encounter/ 49.3 (September > 1977): 77-79. > > The discussion of art in /Cefalu/ is fascinating as well, at least as a > revelation of Durrell's interests and readings. > > Best, > James > > On 27/01/11 10:47 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > Reading /Aphrodite's Revolt,/ or periphrasis of same, is a good idea. > > Long overdue, for me, anyway. Think I'll take Grove up on this. Ken's > > comment about the Greek island books (which I'd expand to include Sicily > > and the Tyrrhenian Sea) bears serious consideration. David Green > > deserves full credit for turning our eyes to the islands ("no tongue: > > all eyes: be silent"). Undoubtedly, Durrell's "potboilers" were done for > > "filthy lucre," but I find them most interesting and provocative. > > Durrell, for all his protean productivity, was probably one of Isaiah > > Berlin's "hedgehogs," more of a possessed Dostoevsky than a foxy > > Tolstoy. That's to say, he was a man of just a few obsessions (and > > demons), and these got continually reworked and replayed throughout his > > /oeuvre/. So, I find it instructive to uncover these themes and tropes > > in his self-acknowledged "minor" works. E.g., /The Dark Labyrinth, White > > Eagles over Serbia,/ and /Sicilian Carousel./ I sense these are often > > scoffed at, but I think this view mistaken ? highbrow priggishness. To > > emphasize what I said before, authors don't always know what they doing, > > and whether Durrell knew it or not, his potboilers seem to me as > > revealing (and probably at least as enjoyable) as his "serious" work > > intended "for all time." > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > > wrote: > > > >> I've enjoyed the responses to David's post, but in my case my silence > >> simply means that I'm busy and haven't had much to say. There are a > >> couple of items about Norman Douglas and Patrick Leigh Fermor that > >> I'll pass on as soon as I can put a few coherent paragraphs together, > >> but in the meantime I'll second Ken's positive comment about The Greek > >> Islands. And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! > >> They're the most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and > >> deserve more attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a > >> chapter-by-chapter analysis of them, but perhaps someone else could > >> this summer. I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc > >> describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ken Gammage > >> Sent: Jan 25, 2011 5:29 PM > >> To: Denise Tart & David Green, "ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> " > >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the > >> listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports > >> your argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that > >> resulted in detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from > >> Charles Sligh and James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for > >> the past several years, enjoying the insightful and often > >> beautiful writing by many thoughtful posters about Durrell, often > >> responding directly and privately to the poster without > >> necessarily having the courage to publicly offer my own sometimes > >> contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The Greek Islands, where others find > >> this coffee table book motivated strictly by lucre.) > >> You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the > >> artillery cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of > >> disparagement at my poor taste in Island books! (I still like > >> Prospero the best.) Please see my kind words about Durrell on the > >> last page of my Italy website:www.travelogorrhea.com > >> > >> Viva Durrell! > >> Kennedy Gammage > >> ken.gammage at directed.com > >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On > >> Behalf Of*Denise Tart & David Green > >> *Sent:*Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > >> *To:*Durrel;DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > >> > >> *Subject:*[ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other > >> contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in > >> Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to > >> ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of > >> Durrell and his works? > >> > >> There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious > >> discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me > >> and some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared > >> without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far > >> between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to > >> academic journals. > >> There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony > >> Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that > >> she can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. > >> Unless some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the > >> only member to publicly respond. > >> Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no > >> longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy > >> about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an > >> aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in > >> endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the > >> cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer > >> to items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in > >> their own right? > >> Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who > >> used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a > >> terminal illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at > >> the moment to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and > >> works of the Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > >> Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, > >> "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > >> Yours, somewhat puzzled, > >> David Green > >> 16 William Street > >> Marrickville NSW 2204 > >> Australia > >> > >> This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > >> information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > >> whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > >> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > >> telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:35:52 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] OMG 17 - London > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4328A8.8040003 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > I should add, I typed in "15" by accident, thinking back to the Paris > conference. (head hung in shame). London will be the 17th On Miracle > Ground, offering us a lucky prime number (and a Fermat Prime at that!). > > Please create a substantial buzz in anticipation of the formal > announcements! > > Best, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:21:09 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: > Message-ID: <575147F780284DA7A3C76E46D96858C2 at DenisePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Meta, > > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. > > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > > etc etc > > we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > > David Green > Terra Australis Incognito > > > From: Meta Cerar > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian - to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) - and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > > > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > > > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > > > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > > > Meta Cerar, > > Slovenia > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > > > > > > Bruce > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > > I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > > It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > > > > btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. > > > > David > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/2e2e39f8/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:21:01 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D43333D.9070101 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > > And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > > most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > > attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > > of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > Let's plan for it this summer. > > I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > "which satisfied the law." > > "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > from myself to myself" > > "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > contractual obligations." > > "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > though Rome burns." > > I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > on their word and sociability. > > The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > face." > > I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > poetics) are present here. > > At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > Best, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:20:13 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: [ilds] Names > To: Denise Tart & David Green , > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <2CCF2ABD-232B-4EA8-A0AF-A6C0DCD258F9 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > Meta, > > > > thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. > > > > To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > > > > Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > > Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type > > Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > > The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > > > > etc etc > > > > we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > > > > I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > > > > David Green > > Terra Australis Incognito > > > > From: Meta Cerar > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > > > > If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > > > > I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > > > > BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > > > > Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > > > > Meta Cerar, > > Slovenia > > > > From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > > To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > > > > > > Bruce > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > > > >> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >> > >> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >> > >> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. > >> > >> David > >> > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/95341739/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:26:53 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D43349D.7020301 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when > talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but > I can't recall where... > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > > Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just > > have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, > > however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's > > "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd > > mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > > > *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > > Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this > > applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the > > ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be > > Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > >> Meta, > >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have > >> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the > >> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes > >> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes > >> through in the Marine Venus. > >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist > >> rebel type > >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain > >> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >> etc etc > >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > >> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west > >> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to > >> them. > >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example > >> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >> David Green > >> Terra Australis Incognito > >> > >> *From:*Meta Cerar > >> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, > >> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends > >> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most > >> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list > >> members wrote recently. > >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or > >> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently > >> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the > >> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to > >> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > >> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. > >> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci > >> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar > >> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a > >> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > >> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and > >> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly > >> neglected to my great disappointment. > >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >> Meta Cerar, > >> Slovenia > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > >> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On > >> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine > >> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> > >> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in > >> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD > >> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: > >> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. > >> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > >> Bruce > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" > >> > wrote: > >> > >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > >>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >>> > >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > >>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern > >>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them > >>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there > >>> something 18th century about it. > >>> David > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:33:50 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <19F230A3-2799-4CC4-B1FA-A16EBB742E4B at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Thanks. That confirms the linkage. It's amazing how saturated Durrell was in Renaissance English. He probably dreamed in blank verse. > > > BR > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:26 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > Unless I'm mistaken, Durrell uses the "purse/scrotum" idea himself when > > talking about Wilde and Shakespeare. It's not in his UNESCO talks, but > > I can't recall where... > > > > Best, > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 1:20 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> *Pursewarden.* Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > >> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just > >> have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, > >> however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's > >> "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd > >> mind, probably refers to more than coins. > >> > >> *Mountolive.* New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's > >> Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this > >> applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the /Quartet/ the > >> ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be > >> Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> > >>> Meta, > >>> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have > >>> been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the > >>> one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes > >>> is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes > >>> through in the Marine Venus. > >>> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >>> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >>> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist > >>> rebel type > >>> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >>> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain > >>> utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >>> etc etc > >>> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a > >>> booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west > >>> country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to > >>> them. > >>> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example > >>> (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >>> David Green > >>> Terra Australis Incognito > >>> > >>> *From:*Meta Cerar > >>> *Sent:*Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >>> *To:*ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >>> > >>> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, > >>> like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends > >>> up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most > >>> magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list > >>> members wrote recently. > >>> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or > >>> Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently > >>> translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the > >>> 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to > >>> include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > >>> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on > >>> this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. > >>> dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci > >>> about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar > >>> with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > >>> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a > >>> future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the > >>> Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and > >>> the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly > >>> neglected to my great disappointment. > >>> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >>> Meta Cerar, > >>> Slovenia > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> *From:*ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > >>> [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]*On > >>> Behalf Of*Bruce Redwine > >>> *Sent:*Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >>> *To:*Denise Tart & David Green;ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >>> > >>> *Subject:*Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >>> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in > >>> Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD > >>> sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: > >>> Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. > >>> Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > >>> Bruce > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" > >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's > >>>> drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >>>> > >>>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of > >>>> Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern > >>>> Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >>>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them > >>>> when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there > >>>> something 18th century about it. > >>>> David > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:55:10 -0500 > From: "Anne R Zahlan" > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: , > Message-ID: <5A956F8BADFF4A439E45C75187D5EB94 at annezahlan1> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Jamie: > > Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site > etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and > careful grad student. > > (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) > > Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. > > Love, > > Anne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Gifford" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > Hello all, > > > > For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated > > since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: > > > > http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm > > > > Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of > > items to add to it still... > > > > Best, > > James > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:35:44 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] online bibliography > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4344C0.2030000 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Anne, > > Good to hear from you! > > For everyone on the list, please consider this an open call for help > with the online bibliography. James Clawson and Grove Koger have > volunteered (at the last conference) to get involved, but I do suspect > that maintaining an online bibliography will necessitate a level of > technical expertise and free time that the three of us will find > challenging... Grove is doing admirable work keeping the print > bibliography going in /Deus Loci/ as the formal record, but there's a > lot of secondary criticism out there still, especially in other languages. > > I first launched the online bibliography as a way of making such work > easily available in a searchable format. That creative commons idea > would still be my preference -- what say you all? Proprietary systems > are easy to transfer to (RefWorks), but then they're proprietary and > hard to open up publicly. > > Does anyone have experience with RefShare? > > Alternatively, the bibliography is already available (in a rough form) > in BibTex, which is easy to update and is compatible with almost any > citation management software, including many OpenSource and free > applications. > > As I noted in the first launch, "The Koger-MacNiven Bibliography has > been particularly useful, and Susan MacNiven's encouragement has been > greatly appreciated. Other major bibliographers include Cecil L. Peaden, > Susan Vander Closter, James Brigham, and Alan G. Thomas." Those are all > still excellent resources. > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 1:55 PM, Anne R Zahlan wrote: > > Hi Jamie: > > > > Any chance you could get some help with updating the bibliography, Web site > > etc.? You can't do it all anymore and perhaps you could find a talented and > > careful grad student. > > > > (Delegating is the sign of a good executive.) > > > > Looking forward to seeing you soon and hope job stuff is going well. > > > > Love, > > > > Anne > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "James Gifford" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > > >> Hello all, > >> > >> For articles, I realize the online bibliography hasn't been updated > >> since 2007, but it's an easy-to-access alternative: > >> > >> http://www.lawrencedurrell.org/bibhome.htm > >> > >> Hopefully time will permit a systematic update soon. I have hundred of > >> items to add to it still... > >> > >> Best, > >> James > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:38:19 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <452C6366-484D-4FDF-8D81-87214664BD8F at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > James, > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of EB, I'll check it for you. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > > > Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > > and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > > Let's plan for it this summer. > > > > I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > > works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > > and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > > > Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > > ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > > in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > > Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > > antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > > that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > > authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > > > "which satisfied the law." > > > > "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > > from myself to myself" > > > > "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > > contractual obligations." > > > > "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > > though Rome burns." > > > > I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > > the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > > explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > > can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > > asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > > terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > > but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > > law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > > on their word and sociability. > > > > The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > > > "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > > or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > > > The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > > clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > > destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > > the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > > Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > > Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > > edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > > > "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > > [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > > government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > > of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > > sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > > that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > > egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > > another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > > to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > > and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > > police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > > free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > > > I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > > that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > > face." > > > > I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > > Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > > in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > > antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > > poetics) are present here. > > > > At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > > lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > > > Best, > > James > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/6cffe788/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:50:12 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D434824.1090100 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > James, > > > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > >> wrote: > >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >> > >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >> Let's plan for it this summer. > >> > >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >> > >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >> > >> "which satisfied the law." > >> > >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >> from myself to myself" > >> > >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >> contractual obligations." > >> > >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > >> though Rome burns." > >> > >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >> on their word and sociability. > >> > >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > >> > >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >> > >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >> > >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >> > >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >> face." > >> > >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >> poetics) are present here. > >> > >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >> > >> Best, > >> James > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:04:17 -0800 > From: William Apt > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and > synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative > is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations > well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it > was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse > to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any > one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it > is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he > was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say > that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/41868c41/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:10:26 -0500 (EST) > From: gkoger at mindspring.com > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: > <28880300.1296256226985.JavaMail.root at elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/4378b9f5/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:26:15 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <19707863-1F2E-4B09-9EB6-EBF117CEF73B at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > James, > > Yes, the EB 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > > Under Socialism"). > > > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > > comparison between past editions. > > > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > > > Thanks! > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> James, > >> > >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >>> > >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/1e2ac9a9/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:42:39 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D43546F.7070904 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Alas, *I* don't have the 14th edition, just access to the 11th... > > That said, a quick check in Google Books has Stephen Lukes remarking on > Kropotkin's entry on Anarchism and Mutual Aid with a quotation that > matches verbatim the 11th edition, but Lukes' citation is very clearly > to the 1929-30 vol. 1 14th edition 9p. 873). I think that solves the > mystery. Durrell's personal copy of the 14th edition would have carried > at least a version of Kropotkin's 1905 entry for the 11th edition. I > admire Lukes' work, so I'll trust it until I can check a 14h edition > copy in the stacks. > > But, would that Zeno reference have stuck, if Durrell had even read it, > more than 20 years later? Dunno, but it does open a window of possibility. > > Thanks for the help! And sorry to bore the rest of y'all -- any takers > on the /Revolt/ suggestions? > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 3:26 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > James, > > > > Yes, the /EB/ 11th section on Kropotkin's essay on "Anarchism" is as you > > quote it, except for the capitalization of "Anarchist," "Utopia," and > > "Cosmos." Hopes this helps. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:50 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > >> Hi Bruce, > >> > >> Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > >> (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > >> Under Socialism"). > >> > >> As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > >> largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > >> cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > >> can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > >> comparison between past editions. > >> > >> I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> James > >> > >> On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >>> James, > >>> > >>> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > >>> > >>> > >>> Bruce > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >>>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >>>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >>>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >>>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >>>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >>>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >>>> > >>>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >>>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >>>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >>>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >>>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >>>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >>>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >>>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >>>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >>>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >>>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >>>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:44:40 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: > Message-ID: <9B585132B875420BB2F922657B0437AB at DenisePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > William, > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > > David Green > > > From: William Apt > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > -- > WILLIAM APT > Attorney at Law > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > Ste 205 > Austin TX 78746 > 512/708-8300 > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/ed6e4af7/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:01:26 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D4358D6.1090605 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi David, > > Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, > it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first > and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more > speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that > MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it > took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. > > Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not > without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. > > Best, > James > > On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > William, > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to > > you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does > > speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who > > as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as > > his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence > > particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness > > of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to > > him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is > > currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > > David Green > > > > *From:* William Apt > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > > *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > > Dear all: > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > > and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > > narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > > obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > > it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > > recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my > > taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's > > book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > > he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except > > to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > > Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > > > -- > > WILLIAM APT > > Attorney at Law > > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > > Ste 205 > > Austin TX 78746 > > 512/708-8300 > > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:35:04 +1100 > From: "Denise Tart & David Green" > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: , > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > James, > > I am noting that I have the revised edition, much thumbed. Yes, Bowker is a > sharp writer but writing a biography of any complex 'genius' would be hard > task as I am sure Michael Haag has discovered, especially if you want to go > beyond a chronicle into a analysis of motive, muse, the meaning of self in > relation to the world. Things are bound to slip. That said I enjoy > biographies as much or more sometimes than the subjects own writings. > > Have been waiting for old Haag's biog for a while - in fact I'm getting that > 'when's it going to be wine o'clock feeling if'n you take my meaning? > > David Whitewine > > btw, am hoping to get sorted a decent look at Durrell's islomania; form to > be determined. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "James Gifford" > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:01 AM > To: > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > Hi David, > > > > Michael Haag is writing the next biography. As for Bowker and MacNiven, > > it's worth noting that Bowker's biography has changes between the first > > and second editions. Nonetheless, in both he's darker and more > > speculative, though he did access some archives (like UVic's) that > > MacNiven did not -- his Malcolm Lowry biography is excellent, and it > > took him to some of the smaller places that MacNiven didn't reach. > > > > Between the two, I prefer MacNiven's and trust it more, though it's not > > without slips here and there as well, which is inevitable in such a work. > > > > Best, > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > >> William, > >> I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to > >> you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does > >> speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who > >> as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as > >> his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence > >> particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness > >> of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to > >> him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is > >> currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > >> David Green > >> > >> *From:* William Apt > >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > >> *To:* ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> *Subject:* [ilds] MacNiven Bio > >> > >> Dear all: > >> I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather > >> and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent > >> narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary > >> obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > >> I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because > >> it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had > >> recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my > >> taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's > >> book, and whether it is worthwhile? > >> Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why > >> he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except > >> to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > >> Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. > >> Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > >> > >> -- > >> WILLIAM APT > >> Attorney at Law > >> 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > >> Ste 205 > >> Austin TX 78746 > >> 512/708-8300 > >> 512/708-8011 FAX > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ILDS mailing list > >> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:53:28 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] the longer response to Bruce > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D436508.1030104 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Bruce, > > Here's a a more detailed response to your thoughtful response... To let > others follow, I'll repeat your note that your comments are the numbered > ones. > > >> Well put, Bruce. I think there have been ongoing worries about > >> "academic" and "lay" topics, and I for one don't think it's a real > >> issue. > > > > 1. I do. > > > >> Academics like to talk about academic issues, lay readers the > >> same, and then the vast majority vacillating in between. > > > > 2. The issue is not what people "like to talk" about, rather about what > > they're willing to hear. I like to think I'm open to everything and do > > not complain about someone else's hobby-horse, no matter how > > energetically expressed. > > Perhaps I should clarify what I mean. I don't think "lay" vs "academic" > are a necessary conflict -- we all wander between both realms, so I > consider it a disagreement based on misunderstandings rather than > inextricable differences. > > I'll admit that there are things with which I disagree, but in my > moderator capacity, I wouldn't consider preventing any of them from > being said if they don't cross a boundary of taste or decorum in a > public forum. In my participant capacity, I'll jump in and disagree! > > >> The Australians, evidently, like to talk about wine... > > > > 3. And so do the French, Italians, and Americans. And so did Lawrence > > Durrell, who became the model for such talk about wine and its > > pleasures. For a view of Durrellians at the wine table, see p. 8 of the > > ILDS /Herald,/ 15 May 2010, and then read the captions to the photos. > > I believe I've been seen consuming the waters of life on many an > occasion... I just didn't want David to feel left out and perhaps > should have noted to joke overtly. ;) > > >> Regardless of our various and diverse interests, some of us will and > >> won't be interested in each others topics, but that's why the list is an > >> open forum in which people can dabble as they wish. The variety of > >> interests is a good thing, not a bad, and lurkers are welcome too. > >> Folks are free to participate in whatever way suits them best. > > > > 4. A slightly disingenuous characterization. Seems to me the moderators > > are making too much effort to accommodate, as someone else put it, "the > > lowest common denominator." I enjoy all kinds of contributions and > > discussions. But all issues should be on the table, not simply those > > that put old LD in a good light and make him palpable to the masses. And > > if that means getting into the nitty-gritty of scholarship and literary > > analysis, as I believe Bill Godshalk was on the verge of doing, then > > let's hear it and let's discuss it. I find it very ironic that I, a > > non-academic, should be the one defending the Academy and its practices. > > I think this is more a matter of balancing between dissemination and > keeping discussion growing... As a moderator, that's always going to be > a tough call -- we've asked people to move discussions along or to > consider letting some disagreements lie, but I hope we've not prevented > open discourse. > > It's probably a matter of self-censorship by academics when a feeling > emerges that folks aren't interested in the academic work -- by the same > token, if Bill's working that up into an article, he may have cut the > cord to the internet once he struck gold. I've done that on a few > occasions to avoid spoiling the later surprise in print (or at least my > hubris imagines the "surprise" of a reader...). > > The same thing goes in the other direction when "lay" readers feel shy > asking questions on commenting for fear of being "corrected" or not > fitting in. I'd hope they'd jump into the fray -- I personally welcome > such participants, even if I don't have a lot to offer them. > > >>> Nor do I see it as a cheering section for Lawrence > >>> Durrell's life and work. > >> > >> My academic hat tells me to say "cheering" is beside the point, > > > > 5. No. Entirely the point. See no. 4. > > I think I see what you mean. I don't agree, but I understand. I'm > certainly not trying to stop anyone from bringing uncomfortable facts to > light -- I disagree with your personal interpretation of them, and to > some degree, we're just going to have to live with our disagreements > there since it's not likely we'll move forward by repeating them. > > That said, you shouldn't feel like you can't give air to them. > Plagiarism, sexism, alcoholism, incest, and violence are probably the > points of contention, and I'd imagine we'll find a range of perspectives > on those here as ways of interpreting Durrell's works. My hunch is that > we'd be in agreement on all of those issues but one: plagiarism. As for > incest, I think it's an example of where biographical speculation leads > to false results, as Mary Hamer's book on the topic demonstrates. > > An apologia for an author leads to no good and a blurred vision. > Durrell was certainly an alcoholic with sexist and violent parts of his > personality, though to some degree feminist and pacifist tendencies as > well. We simply disagree on how to look at creative texts, and I deal > with plagiarism in my administrative capacity, for which no one has > accused me of being too easy... I simply want to note that reasonable > disagreement is possible on that. As for incest, I think accusations > against Durrell in that regard reflect a search for attention -- shock > journalism. Hamer's an instance of how badly that can go. > > >> but I suspect some would enjoy a cheer now and again (or the > >> opposite), and I > >> don't think they should be silenced. I just won't provide the pom poms. > > > > 6. As you're doing now, it would be nice to have the moderators > > occasionally provide reasoned opinions, in addition to quips and > > citations. Charles used to do this well. No longer, sadly. > > Charles is a mere mortal, and I think his recent find is keeping on the > road quite a bit at present. I'll do my best, such as it is... > > >> I might also add, a good deal of answers are sent off-list, which I > >> believe has been the case for several recent academic queries. > > > > 7. Which is a very big mistake. Why aren't the answers to academic > > queries made public? I'd like to see them. > > I mean things such as locations of books, tips for local resources, > etc... I make a point of putting things on the list that have any > chance of being of public interest. > > > 8. I praise the moderators for their time and effort. No irony here. > > Shucks, Bruce, I'm blushing... Charles, though, is the Boxer to our > animal farm. I suspect I'm more of a stubborn mule. > > > Or, perhaps I can stir the pot by going after Bruce's flagrantly dangled > > hook & bait: [that's me] > > > >> Like Chatwin and de Man, Durrell had a few > >> things to expunge or expiate. [Bruce] > > > > I might look sideways at Cleanth Brooks from time to time, but Bruce, I > > thought you had a good ol' New Criticism vein (or artery) running in > > you. Surely this falls foul of some kind of intentional fallacy or > > conversation with dead people. Barthes might ask about the reader too... > > > > 9. Name-dropping is not an argument, James. Bruce Chatwin and Paul de > > Man share similarities with Lawrence Durrell. Chatwin had a hard time > > distinguishing fact from fiction, and de Man covered up some sordid > > behavior. Both topics have been discussed on this List and in > > considerable detail. > > I'll agree with this. Chatwin had good reasons for failing to make that > distinction toward the end, and Durrell admitted repeatedly to mainly > living in his mind rather than the world outside. Paul de Man had > rather darker things to cover up though... I think that's where I > hesitate. Durrell certainly had things to hide and a life of the > imagination, but the de Man approach would go back to the incest topic, > which I think is a red herring in Durrell's case. He certainly was not > saint, but even without redeeming him, I'd not be as jaded as de Man's > Nazi ties would suggest. > > Would a better comparison be Chatwin and Graham Greene or Iris Murdoch. > Neither of the last two were saints, but neither had the same kind of > skeletons in the closet as de Man. Perhaps a tibia or femur or two, but > not the legion de Man or Heidegger might command. > > > Isn't some of the brilliance of LD's prose, and perhaps most of all the > > poetry, the fact that it is gorgeously ambiguous in the sense of Keats' > > Negative Capability? > > > > 10. Keats's "Negative Capability" is hard to understand. > > I'm not trying to minimize Keats' complexities. They're well known. > What I mean is that an easy bridge between author and text is always > going to be fraught with perils. We can't have that brilliant > complexity *and* and easy path back to the author... Much like Keats' > masks. > > > Robert Duncan makes nice work of Durrell's > > ambiguous objects in Greek poems like "Carol on Corfu" in his "Ark for > > Lawrence Durrell," which strikes me as having a bit of the bite you're > > looking for without falling into the myopia of clear vision... > > > > 11. I'd like to learn more about "the myopia of clear vision." > > Seeing something too clearly usually tells me I'm finding what I set out > to find rather than what's really there... My dissertation looked at > instances of this in Durrell and Miller -- critics have often described > events in both authors' works that don't actually exist. Sometimes the > gaps are so provocative that we fill them in and fail to notice where > the contents came from -- I try to keep myself humble in that area > (trust me, it's hard! Hubris away!). When I think I've finally > achieved a clear vision of something I begin to suspect that I'm being > myopic about the unresolvable ambiguities (Empson's 7th type) that are > invariably present. My certainly blinds me to the rich uncertainties... > > > If I think I've puzzled out what a poet really *meant*, then I second guess > > myself and wonder if my certainty is blinding me to the gloriously > > ambiguous that doesn't actually have a non-readerly resolution. > > > > 12. Hard to discuss this without specifics [...] You're emphasizing > > readers over authors, as Barthes famously spoke of the "death of the > > author," along with the impossibility to recover authorial intentions, > > as Bill likes to stress. All this I largely disagree with, for the most > > part. I see a text as mainly under the control of its author ? but not > > everything in it. Authors don't always know what they're doing. Frank > > Kermode makes this point well in "Secrets and Narrative Sequence" (1980). > > Precisely, and I suppose we're just going to disagree. Much of it is a > matter of polemics and tendencies. When I see a cheque, I don't imagine > the kind of death of the author that Barthes (who got royalties!) > suggests. By the same token, when I see Darley I don't see Lawrence > Durrell. I try to be very tentative when I talk of biographical > matters, often restricting myself to tying two texts together, > contextualizing sources or language, or trying to draw out an overlooked > interpretive possibility. Otherwise, I tend to leave interpretive > matters to the reader rather than the writer. The writer sold me the > book, and now I'll do with it just as I please... ;) > > But there are reasonable reasons to disagree here, perhaps most often to > keep each other to reasonable degrees of difference. > > > I'm also curious why "expiate" rather than "express" or "deal with"? Is > > there a Catholic vein too, my eucharistic friend? > > > > 13. There is a "Catholic vein" to my thought, being a lapsed Catholic. > > If you accept the de Man analogy (which I expect you do not), then > > "expiate" is exactly the right word. > > Don't worry, Bruce, they seem get people back in the end... Hence > "lapsed" rather than "lost"... ;) > > You're right, I don't accept the de Man analogy, but I do see what you > mean by expiate. Is there a reasonable middle ground between de Man and > Mother Theresa? I'm sure Durrell had things to expiate, but I don't > think they were on the same order as de Man. Does that make sense? > Moreover, I'm not always convinced that retracing that expiation will > lead to the author, ? la Eliot's catalyst in "Tradition and the > Individual Talent," though he was trying to expiate some sins and hide > some skeletons as well... > > Best, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:40:12 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D436FFC.1080302 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > As always, Ilyas, you have a keen eye and generous description of the > things it spies. > > All apologies for my provincially dull skirmishes with Bruce, but at > least we're keeping our blades dull as well. Hopefully this recent jump > in activity on the list will return us to the "vibrant balance of the > scholarly, academic, casual and amateur enthusiast." > > As for Charles, > > > Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? > > Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke > > booke > > I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll > have to try his cell... > > Best, > James > > On 26/01/11 2:14 AM, Ilyas Khan wrote: > > Ken, > > > > You make the key point in my view. I am active (and find tremendously > > rewarding) my participation as ?poster? and ?lurker? on a number of > > other such venues, and the key difference is that despite much hand > > wringing on this listserv, there is an incredible tendency towards > > clique-ishness, made all the more provincially dull by the continuation > > of long standing personal skirmishes that the vast majority of us do not > > understand or appreciate. > > > > My own attitude has been, therefore, to focus on two things. Firstly, my > > own love of LD means that I usually find nuggets here, but I also have > > drifted towards a personal reply instead of a reply to the forum as a > > whole. Secondly, when the usual small clique start squabbling or cannot > > see the impact of their language on others, I simply ignore them and > > enjoy the underlying conversation from which I have learnt so much. At > > times people such as James and Charles have tried to bring the > > conversation back to the ?relevant?, but even they, I think, sometimes > > tire of the same old repetition. > > > > There is a message in reply to David?s post that also raises the issue > > of how some academics have been teased off this listserv from posting > > stuff that is too academic. I agree that if other venues can maintain a > > vibrant balance of the scholarly, academic, casual and amateur > > enthusiast, then so can we. > > > > On that basis therefore, David, I for one will try to become more > > active. I value this little part of my life, and unless we all step upto > > the plate, we have only ourselves to blame. Having made my points above, > > I am hoping I can become one of the non-scholarly or non-academic > > participants who has an opinion and a constructive point of view. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > On 26/01/2011 00:29, "Ken Gammage" wrote: > > > > Very good David. A provocative post that should wake up the > > listserv! However, I?m not sure how well your example supports your > > argument. Rony sent a second post about Otto Rank that resulted in > > detailed and I?m sure very helpful responses from Charles Sligh and > > James Gifford. I have been a flagrant lurker for the past several > > years, enjoying the insightful and often beautiful writing by many > > thoughtful posters about Durrell, often responding directly and > > privately to the poster without necessarily having the courage to > > publicly offer my own sometimes contrary opinions (e.g. pro-The > > Greek Islands, where others find this coffee table book motivated > > strictly by lucre.) > > You see ? that?s why I seldom post. I can almost sense the artillery > > cranking into place, preparing a fusillade of disparagement at my > > poor taste in Island books! (I still like Prospero the best.) Please > > see my kind words about Durrell on the last page of my Italy > > website: www.travelogorrhea.com > > > > Viva Durrell! > > > > Kennedy Gammage > > ken.gammage at directed.com > > > > > > > > *From:* ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca > > [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] *On Behalf Of *Denise Tart & > > David Green > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:30 PM > > *To:* Durrel; DURRELL at LISTSERV.CC.UCF.EDU > > *Subject:* [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > > > It has come to my notice and the notice of one or two other > > contributors to this list that things have gone rather quiet in > > Durrell land over the last few weeks, months even, leaving me to > > ponder whatever happened to the lively debates and discussions of > > Durrell and his works? > > There seems to be no interest in keeping any kind of serious > > discussion going. Some large and well researched postings by me and > > some others, intended to stimulate discussion have disappeared > > without a trace. The general run of recent postings, few and far > > between, appear restricted to scholarly minutia or references to > > academic journals. > > > > There was almost no response to young Israeli student, Rony > > Alfandary, who appeared to be seeking some encouragement so that she > > can do her bit to promote LD in the world of scholarship. Unless > > some communication occurred off line, Bruce Redwine was the only > > member to publicly respond. > > > > Has there been a shift in policy re the ILDS List-Serve. Is it no > > longer a forum for discussion, since that can lead to controversy > > about M. Durrell's reputation? Currently there appears to be an > > aloofness on the part of certain contributors and a disinterest in > > endorsing anything substantive. Is the List now a place for the > > cognoscenti to say nice things to one another or merely to refer to > > items of Durrell scholarship, worthy as these things is in their own > > right? > > > > Where are all the so called lurkers? Where are all the people who > > used to pitch in have a say? Is the horse suffering from a terminal > > illness or is it just tired and resting up, unwilling at the moment > > to enter the forum of fiery debate about the life and works of the > > Hero of Kalamni, Bellapaix, Alexandria etc etc? > > > > Whatever happened to the spirit of L. Pursewarden, who wrote, > > "Protestant purely in the sense that I protest!" > > > > Yours, somewhat puzzled, > > > > David Green > > > > 16 William Street > > Marrickville NSW 2204 > > Australia > > > > This email may contain confidential and/or privileged > > information. It is intended only for the person or persons to > > whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized review, use, or > > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended > > recipient, please contact the sender by reply email or > > telephone and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:00:12 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: Denise Tart & David Green , > ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I haven't read MacNiven in toto but agree with David's take on Bowker. I am not convinced, however, with Bowker's attempt to rationalize Durrell's "creative madness," especially with respect to his occasional treatment of his wives, sometimes brutally. > > > BR > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > William, > > > > I have read Bowker's biography several times and can recommend it to you. yes, you are right that it has its problems and that Bowker does speculate at times, but it is a good contrast to tact of MacNiven, who as well as being a scholarly and authorised, is also a fan. Bowker, as his book title suggests, paints a darker picture of Lawrence particularly in relation to his treatment of women and his over fondness of alcohol; his creative madness being at times hard on people close to him. Read both a get a deeper picture - someone else out there is currently doing so and could perhaps ad to this commentary?? > > > > David Green > > > > From: William Apt > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:04 AM > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Subject: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > > > > Dear all: > > > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > > > -- > > WILLIAM APT > > Attorney at Law > > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > > Ste 205 > > Austin TX 78746 > > 512/708-8300 > > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/a3dc8a64/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:04:14 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <4850D6A6-F241-4278-BAD7-D7892AD32434 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > The "Justine ts?" The Justine type script? Whereas Charles is, I wish him well. > > > BR > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 5:40 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > As for Charles, > > > >> Bill, is he not in chicago ? Buried in the archive? > >> Last I heard he was mumbling something about blacke > >> booke > > > > I thought he was still in Zagreb chasing the Justine ts. I think I'll > > have to try his cell... > > > > Best, > > James > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110128/433eac65/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:20:47 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] MacNiven Bio > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Bill, > > Any attempt to write a biography of Lawrence Durrell is a mind-boggling enterprise, both in terms of the complexity of the man himself and the huge amount of material required to absorb and analyze. He was definitely a genius but also a very flawed one, which is probably the way we want our geniuses to be. It was a pleasure to offer you the little assistance I could. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:04 PM, William Apt wrote: > > > Dear all: > > > > I thought the book outstanding. How Prof. MacNiven was able to gather and synthesize so much material, and then put it into such an eloquent narrative is remarkable. Moreover, Prof. MacNiven honors his fiduciary obligations well: it is a most tactful book. > > > > I had tried reading Bowker's bio but was put off by it. Perhaps because it was unauthorized, and Bowker was deprived of sources MacNiven had recourse to, there was way too much speculation-as-explanation for my taste. Can any one tell me how it essentially differs from MacNiven's book, and whether it is worthwhile? > > > > Ultimately I find LD truly enigmatic. I have so many questions about why he was the way he was that, perhaps, cannot be clearly answered except to say that he was a genius, and genius is a mystery. > > > > Again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful to me, including Prof. Godshalk, whom I forgot to thank yesterday. > > > > -- > > WILLIAM APT > > Attorney at Law > > 7004 Bee Cave Rd, Bldg 1, > > Ste 205 > > Austin TX 78746 > > 512/708-8300 > > 512/708-8011 FAX > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:03:39 -0800 (PST) > From: Richard Pine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <192927.66531.qm at web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Wasn't me! RP > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bruce Redwine > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM > Subject: [ilds] Names > > Pursewarden. ?Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's > surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. ?Or maybe I?just?have a dirty > mind. ?Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. ?The OED, however, cites > "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. ?Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse > steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more > than coins. > > > Mountolive. ?New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion > and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? ?Not clear how this applies to Sir David, > unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion > or?passions?to deal with. ?This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. > ?Still, a good name. > > > Bruce > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > Meta, > >? > >thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to > >find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. > >insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful > >island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. > >? > >To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >? > >Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type > >Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia > >(Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >? > >etc etc > >? > >we recall in 18th century? English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby > >being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of > >rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > >? > >I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) > >or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >? > >David Green > >Terra Australis Incognito > > > > > >From:?Meta Cerar > >Sent:?Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >To:?ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > > > >Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN > >for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the > >World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire > >opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > >? > >If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark > >Labyrinth ?names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark > >Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth > >(February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of > >the book. > >? > >I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this > >particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as > >a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's > >influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know > >if it's worth reading. > >? > >BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future > >Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean > >but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? > >in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great > >disappointment. > >? > >Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >? > >Meta Cerar, > >Slovenia > >? > > > ________________________________ > > >From:?ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca?[mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca]?On Behalf > >Of?Bruce Redwine > >Sent:?Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >To:?Denise Tart & David Green;?ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >Subject:?Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >? > >Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed > >throughout Durrell's fiction. ?My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as > >Shakespeare did his low-life characters: ? Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, > >Pistol, etc. ?People are their names. ?Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > >? > >? > >Bruce > > > >Sent from my iPhone > > > >On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" > >wrote: > >I especially recommend the?early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken > >speech in front of the Parthenon.?Grove > >> > >>It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's > >>speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and > >>the? souther classical Parthenon. > >>? > >>btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by?them when > >>reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century > >>about it. > >>? > >>David > >>? > >>? > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/d513fa98/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:18:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Richard Pine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: gifford at fdu.edu, ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <691071.26582.qm at web65816.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: > > Abnormal Psychology > Abraxas > Almanac > Archimedes > Arrhenius > Asia > Astrology > Astronomy > Calendar > (Central America - May) > (Chronology - Maya) > Circle > Comparative Ethics > Confucius > Cone > Constellation > Cosmogony > Egypt > Equation of Time > Geodesy > Geometry (and Line Geometry) > Indian Philosophy > Infinity > Lhasa > Limit > Mayan Calendar > Mayan Culture > Menstruation > Nashe > Number & Numerals > Observatory > Palmistry > Ptolemy > Serpents > Sphere > Stoics > Zero > Tibet > Tides > Time > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: James Gifford > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > > Hi Bruce, > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > Under Socialism"). > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > cuts to existing entries.? If you have access, I'd appreciate it!!? I > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > comparison between past editions. > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > Thanks! > James > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > James, > > > > Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > > > >> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > >> wrote: > >>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >> > >> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >> Let's plan for it this summer. > >> > >> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >> > >> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >> > >> "which satisfied the law." > >> > >> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > >> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >> from myself to myself" > >> > >> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >> contractual obligations." > >> > >> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > >> though Rome burns." > >> > >> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > >> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >> on their word and sociability. > >> > >> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > >> > >> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >> > >> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >> > >> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >> > >> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >> face." > >> > >> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > >> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >> poetics) are present here. > >> > >> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >> > >> Best, > >> James > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:37:01 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Names > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: <286854BA-DB3C-48AB-94B5-222B370F4E16 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > > > BR > > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > > > Wasn't me! RP > > > > From: Bruce Redwine > > To: Denise Tart & David Green ; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Cc: Bruce Redwine > > Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:20:13 PM > > Subject: [ilds] Names > > > > Pursewarden. Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this, either way. The OED, however, cites "scrotum" as a Renaissance meaning of purse. Cf. Iago's "Who steals my purse steals trash," where "purse," given Iago's lewd mind, probably refers to more than coins. > > > > Mountolive. New Testament "Mount of Olives," associated with Christ's Passion and possibly the Garden of Gethsemane? Not clear how this applies to Sir David, unless you want to argue that in the Quartet the ambassador has his own Passion or passions to deal with. This may be Durrell being whimsical and irreverent. Still, a good name. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Denise Tart & David Green wrote: > > > >> Meta, > >> > >> thanks for news about the Villa Cleobolus, sad though it is. I have been able to find Larry's other houses on Google Earth, but not the one in Rhodes. insidently, a Greek friend of mine reckons that Rhodes is the most beautiful island in the world which certainly comes through in the Marine Venus. > >> > >> To the names in Dark Labyrinth, yes the names imply the characters > >> > >> Graecen - the graceful and mannered lord. > >> Campion - Champion, the hero of the piece - the shit stirring artist rebel type > >> Fearmax - the enigmatic, withdrawn magician (maximum fear) > >> The Truman's - true, honest ordinary people who achieve a mountain utopia (Durrell's hearkening back to his Indian Himalayan experiences) > >> > >> etc etc > >> > >> we recall in 18th century English Lit characters like Squire Booby (a booby being an ignorant boor) or squire Weston, he from the west country, a land of rowdy, drunken cider drinkers, the lord be good to them. > >> > >> I also wonder about Quartet characters - Pursewarden for example (money guard) or Mountolive - who was Olive??? > >> > >> David Green > >> Terra Australis Incognito > >> > >> From: Meta Cerar > >> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:58 PM > >> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Actually there are more ?18th century? names in the Dark Labyrinth, like TRUMAN for example. What an appropriate name for someone who ends up on the Roof of the World, which I agree is one of the most magnificent chapters in Durrell's entire opus, as one of the list members wrote recently. > >> > >> If anyone on the list knows of an article concerning the Cefalu or Dark Labyrinth names, I would be greatly interested. I am currently translating Dark Labyrinth into Slovenian ? to be published at the 100th anniversary of his birth (February 2012) ? and would love to include this symbolism into the preface of the book. > >> > >> I would also be grateful for any information on reviews or articles on this particular book, which I greatly enjoy working on although L.D. dismissed it as a potboiler. I think there was an article in Deus Loci about Otto Rank's influence on D.L. If anyone happens to be familiar with it, please let me know if it's worth reading. > >> > >> BTW, I loved the photos from Bellapais. What a great location for a future Durrell conference! I followed the Durrell trail throughout the Meditterranean but haven't been to Cyprus yet. The Villa Cleobolus and the ?Tree of idleness? in the old moslem graveyard in Rhodes are sadly neglected to my great disappointment. > >> > >> Looking forward to further commentaries on Dark Labyrinth, > >> > >> Meta Cerar, > >> Slovenia > >> > >> From: ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca [mailto:ilds-bounces at lists.uvic.ca] On Behalf Of Bruce Redwine > >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:43 PM > >> To: Denise Tart & David Green; ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >> Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > >> > >> Someone undoubtedly already has published an article on names in Cefalu, indeed throughout Durrell's fiction. My guess is that LD sometimes chose them as Shakespeare did his low-life characters: Mistress Quickly, Doll Tearsheet, Pistol, etc. People are their names. Doesn't Fearmax die of fright? > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:59 AM, "Denise Tart & David Green" wrote: > >> > >>> I especially recommend the early chapter in Tunc describing Caradoc's drunken speech in front of the Parthenon. Grove > >>> > >>> It is probably fitting that I make a detailed literary analysis of Caradoc's speech - already seeing Durrell's juxtaposition of northern Celtic Caradoc and the souther classical Parthenon. > >>> > >>> btw, has anyone studied Durrell's names? I was very intrigued by them when reading Dark Labyrinth recently; Fearmax, Graecen - there something 18th century about it. > >>> > >>> David > >>> > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/47524b25/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 09:06:04 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Cc: Bruce Redwine > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Thanks. Fascinating. He's plotting his literary future. Note the interest in space and time. The big interest in the Maya seems strange but probably has to do with their calendar and time. I haven't checked the 11th, but when the 11th and 14th were published, their code had not been broken into, and the Maya were thought to be peaceful and Arcadian. Perhaps a jungle version of the Roof of the World, if you will. After the glyphs were deciphered, along with extensive archaeology, it was discovered they were just the opposite ? highly warlike and bloodthirsty. Mel Gibson's Apocalypto is not far from the truth. It might be a good exercise for some energetic graduate student to read all these articles and then compare them with Durrell's oeuvre. Surely worth an article or two. > > > Bruce > > > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:18 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > > > The articles in EB specifically marked by LD are: > > > > Abnormal Psychology > > Abraxas > > Almanac > > Archimedes > > Arrhenius > > Asia > > Astrology > > Astronomy > > Calendar > > (Central America - May) > > (Chronology - Maya) > > Circle > > Comparative Ethics > > Confucius > > Cone > > Constellation > > Cosmogony > > Egypt > > Equation of Time > > Geodesy > > Geometry (and Line Geometry) > > Indian Philosophy > > Infinity > > Lhasa > > Limit > > Mayan Calendar > > Mayan Culture > > Menstruation > > Nashe > > Number & Numerals > > Observatory > > Palmistry > > Ptolemy > > Serpents > > Sphere > > Stoics > > Zero > > Tibet > > Tides > > Time > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: James Gifford > > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:50:12 AM > > Subject: [ilds] Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th & 14th > > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > Peter Kropotkin wrote the "Anarchism" entry to the 11th edition in 1905 > > (Wilde even quotes Kropotkin, without reference, in "The Soul of Man > > Under Socialism"). > > > > As I understand it, the 14th edition (which Durrell had on Corfu) was > > largely a reversion to the 11th edition that added new entries and made > > cuts to existing entries. If you have access, I'd appreciate it!! I > > can get it online through my library, but it doesn't allow the > > comparison between past editions. > > > > I believe the DSC Library has the 14th edition on its shelves too. > > > > Thanks! > > James > > > > On 28/01/11 2:38 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> James, > >> > >> Tell me which entry in the 11th ed. of /EB,/ I'll check it for you. > >> > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, James Gifford wrote: > >> > >>> On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com > >>> wrote: > >>>> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >>>> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >>>> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >>>> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > >>> > >>> Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >>> and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >>> Let's plan for it this summer. > >>> > >>> I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >>> works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >>> and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > >>> > >>> Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >>> ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >>> in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >>> Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >>> antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >>> that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >>> authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > >>> > >>> "which satisfied the law." > >>> > >>> "the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > >>> Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >>> from myself to myself" > >>> > >>> "People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >>> contractual obligations." > >>> > >>> "we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > >>> though Rome burns." > >>> > >>> I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >>> the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > >>> explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >>> can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >>> asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >>> terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >>> but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >>> law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >>> on their word and sociability. > >>> > >>> The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > >>> > >>> "Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >>> or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > >>> > >>> The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >>> clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >>> destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >>> the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >>> Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >>> Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >>> edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > >>> > >>> "The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >>> [...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >>> government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >>> of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >>> sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >>> that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >>> egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >>> another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >>> to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >>> and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >>> police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >>> free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > >>> > >>> I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >>> that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >>> face." > >>> > >>> I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >>> Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > >>> in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >>> antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >>> poetics) are present here. > >>> > >>> At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >>> lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> James > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110129/4bc4c895/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:27:22 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: [ilds] the purse > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D445C0A.30904 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > > I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > > > >> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >> > >> Wasn't me! RP > >> > >>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > >>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I > >>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this > > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as > well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after > those purse strings for a long time! > > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and > it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this > regard across Durrell's works over time. > > Cheers, > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:31:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: gkoger at mindspring.com > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: > <24725023.1296325907489.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > James, > > Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. Aren't the books all about contradictions? > > Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach would be another reason to look forward to summer! > > Grove > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: James Gifford > >Sent: Jan 28, 2011 2:21 PM > >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > >Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > > > >On 27/01/11 6:57 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > >> And for those who haven't read Tunc and Nunquam, get busy! They're the > >> most consistently underrated of Durrell's novels and deserve more > >> attention. I'm not qualified to undertake a chapter-by-chapter analysis > >> of them, but perhaps someone else could this summer. > > > >Do I sense another reading group coming on? I'd enjoy that, and Tunc > >and Nunquam have been favourites of mine. Great suggestion, Grove! > >Let's plan for it this summer. > > > >I'm of the (perhaps heretical) opinion that these are more political > >works than they let on, and that they show much about Durrell's 1930s > >and 40s activities that can otherwise be overlooked. > > > >Caradoc's speech is grand, but I'm always struck by the inexplicable > >ending to /Nunquam/... I can't help but think of Durrell's publications > >in the anarchist press (NOW, New Road, Experimental Review, the New > >Apocalypse books, and so forth) and the ease with which an > >antiauthoritarian interpretation of his poetics can be made. Add to > >that mix the language of /Nunquam/'s last two pages 282-283 (law, > >authority, command, contractual obligation, and the fall of the state): > > > >"which satisfied the law." > > > >"the prophecy of Zeno has been occupying me, preoccupying me very much. > > Indeed I now feel it less as a prophecy than as a sort of command, > >from myself to myself" > > > >"People will be afraid to take advantage of the fact that they have no > >contractual obligations." > > > >"we have been dancing, dancing in complete happiness and accord.... even > >though Rome burns." > > > >I may be just spotting things I'm looking for in other 1930s writers at > >the moment (Duncan, Rexroth, Miller, Leite, Woodcock, and others who are > >explicit about their anarchism and its influence on their style), but I > >can't help but see /The Revolt of Aphrodite/ through a perspective that > >asks about its implicit critique of corporatism and coercion in those > >terms. Certainly Durrell's vision isn't like Palahniuk's /Fight Club/, > >but there's something kindred. The state (Rome) falls, contracts end, > >law is obscured, yet the folks are in peace and accord, relying instead > >on their word and sociability. > > > >The "Tunc aut Nunquam" moment is also cast in unusual terms for Durrell: > > > >"Either everything will disintegrate, the Firm will begin to dissolve; > >or else nothing, Mr. Felix, absolutely nothing." > > > >The Zeno prophecy first appears on pages 231-2, and this Zeno is a Greek > >clerk who has visions (his vision is of the novel's ending and the > >destruction of coercion and obligation). However, I can't help but take > >the reference to Zeno (and can a Classicist on here correct me?! > >Bruce?) as potentially a gesture to Kropotkin's entry in the > >Encyclopaedia Britannics's 11th edition (same entry for Durrell's 14th > >edition? I know the 14th was based on the 11th edition): > > > >"The best exponent of anarchist philosophy in ancient Greece was Zeno > >[...] who distinctly opposed his conception of a free community without > >government to the state-utopia of Plato. He repudiated the omnipotence > >of the state, its intervention and regimentation, and proclaimed the > >sovereignty of the moral law of the individual -- remarking already > >that, while the necessary instinct of self-preservation leads man to > >egotism, nature has supplied a corrective to it by providing man with > >another instinct -- that of sociability. When men are reasonable enough > >to follow their natural instincts, they will unite across the frontiers > >and constitute the cosmos. They will have no need of law-courts or > >police, will have no temples and no public worship, and use no money -- > >free gifts taking the place of the exchanges." > > > >I think Plutarch describes Zeno failing to kill the tyrant Demylus so > >that "with his own teeth bit off his tongue, he spit it in the tyrant?s > >face." > > > >I'm retracing some poetic networks that ran contrary to the Auden > >Generation, and most have an anarchist politics, so I may just have this > >in my head at the moment. Still, it seems like some anti-state or > >antiauthoritarian sentiments (which isn't so far from Durrell's open > >poetics) are present here. > > > >At any rate, those are the things that have been occupying my mind > >lately with /The Revolt of Aphrodite/... What say y'all? > > > >Best, > >James > >_______________________________________________ > >ILDS mailing list > >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:29:21 -0800 > From: James Gifford > Subject: Re: [ilds] What has happened to the ilds list > To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca > Message-ID: <4D446A91.4070105 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Hi Grove, > > Let's consider this an aim for late April/May? Unless, of course, > there's a chorus from the listserv to get started right away... > > I'd agree about the Firm being more than simply a modern institution in > the books -- I suppose my curiosity relates to the potential for LD to > be talking about coercive authority in that 1968 moment (which Don Kacz > has noted before). Just what *is* the Firm? > > I'm in the midst of a long project relating to poetry networks in the > 1930s and 40s that differ from the High Modernists and Auden group by > virtue of antiauthoritarian politics (or Herbert Read's politics of the > unpolitical), and Durrell's in there though he's peripheral. That is > certainly shaping my readerly perspective at the moment {winks eye at > Bruce}, but it seems surprisingly easy to develop that perspective. > > Cheers, > James > > On 29/01/11 10:31 AM, gkoger at mindspring.com wrote: > > James, > > > > Thank you! Much, much to think about here. My own impression (my last > > reading was some time back) is that, as Durrell suggests, the Firm > > has always been with us. It's as if it has an existence in the DNA as > > well as in the external world. And I've always felt that the central > > situation isn't (to change the tense) now or never but now AND never. > > Aren't the books all about contradictions? > > > > Rereading may change my perceptions entirely, so a group approach > > would be another reason to look forward to summer! > > > > Grove > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 32 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:28:48 -0800 > From: Bruce Redwine > Subject: Re: [ilds] the purse > To: "gifford at fdu.edu" , "ilds at lists.uvic.ca" > > Message-ID: <47962E6D-0472-4501-BB18-850ACBFA72D2 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Congratulations! RP did provide, I believe, an interesting etymology for Cunegonde, not of the "Candide" variety. So at least three of us have dirty minds. Durrell does encourage this kind of research. I wonder if the women on this List would consider that misogyny or would dismiss it as male infantile behavior. > > BR > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:27 AM, James Gifford wrote: > > > On 29/01/11 8:37 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >> I would swear that it was. So much for memory. > >> > >>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Richard Pine wrote: > >>> > >>> Wasn't me! RP > >>> > >>>> On 28/01/11 11:20:13 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote: > >>>> *Pursewarden.*Sometime ago, R. Pine, I believe, pointed out that > >>>> Ludwig's surname was a pun or allusion to the scrotum. Or maybe I > >>>> just have a dirty mind. Bill Godshalk can confirm this > > > > Alas, looking back at the listserv's records, I find that *I* said it: > > Fri, 9 Jul 2003 17:08:36 -0400. AJ French chimed in on this point as > > well, and Bruce showed much interest. My goodness we've been after > > those purse strings for a long time! > > > > Still, "purse" was used by Elizabethans in this form, as Bill noted, and > > it appears in the OED with this association. I'm intrigued to note that > > the word "purse" occurs repeatedly in relation to the mouth in /Pied > > Piper/ and /Panic Spring/ (and no, not just pursing one's lips). I > > wonder if a collocation would turn up interesting patterns in this > > regard across Durrell's works over time. > > > > Cheers, > > James > > _______________________________________________ > > ILDS mailing list > > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > End of ILDS Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13 > ************************************ > > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds > > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------- > "...but why is the rum gone?!?!" > _______________________________________________ > ILDS mailing list > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20110130/da41eb43/attachment-0001.html