[ilds] Ray, Patrick, Bruce and others

Bruce Redwine bredwine1968 at earthlink.net
Mon Nov 1 16:51:23 PDT 2010


Thanks for the clarification.  I hate to quibble here, but I wouldn't call my point a "quibble."  What you cite is one of von Richtofen's points, which I disagree with, and if I'm quibbling, so is he.  Bill has already given a nice assessment of the attractiveness of the Elizabethan period, and I suspect some of those wild elements appealed to LD, if not to von Richtofen.  I think we agree.


On Nov 1, 2010, at 3:42 PM, James Gifford wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
> I like quibbles...  The polite jogging of points back & forth such that 
> a fuller idea of the whole develops.  Not a dispute but a disquisition, 
> in which we might hope several things dovetail in our minds.
> You note that you agree with Richtofen's assessment of Middleton but:
>> I question, however, the observation about
>> "Durrell's essentially conservative literary
>> and historical outlook" re the Elizabethans.
> Would that qualify as a quibble of quality?  I suspect it's worth 
> disputing further -- I think we'd be on the same side here (contra 
> Richtofen) but likely not in agreement with each other either.
> Cheers,
> James
> On 01/11/10 3:31 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> James,
>> Quibbles?
>> BR
>> On Nov 1, 2010, at 3:10 PM, James Gifford wrote:
>>> I should add, Richtofen's dissertation is extremely fine work, though I
>>> do disagree with some points akin to Bruce's quibbles.  As for Durrell's
>>> "essentially conservative" nature, I've argued against that rather strongly:
>>> http://inscribe.iupress.org/doi/abs/10.2979/JML.2010.33.4.57
>>> I signed an agreement not to post a copy to a listserv, but I'm free to
>>> share with colleagues for academic purposes...
>>> Cheers,
>>> James
>>> On 01/11/10 11:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>>> Bill and Charles,
>>>> I'm not one to make fun of family names — you live with what you've got
>>>> — but Patrick von Richtofen's does cause me to pause and recall "The Red
>>>> Baron." Could this mean something? I won't speculate. Anyway, I have
>>>> /DL,/ vol. IV, no. 2 (in red cover, no less), which contains von
>>>> Richtofen's "Lawrence Durrell, Prince of Denmark." I see that Charles is
>>>> much quicker to the draw than I am and has already provided the relevant
>>>> passages.
>>>> Von Richthofen identifies Middleton's /Blacke Book/ as a source for
>>>> Durrell's /Black Book/ and makes an interesting comment about Lucifer
>>>> and the preeminent sin of pride — the very first and most important of
>>>> the Seven Deadlies, the one that subsumes all the others — and its
>>>> relevance to LD himself. I think he's right. Durrell's book reeks of
>>>> pride, his own, his literary presumptuousness, sin or not. I question,
>>>> however, the observation about "Durrell's essentially conservative
>>>> literary and historical outlook" re the Elizabethans. My very limited
>>>> sense of Durrell's love of the Elizabethans is that he admired the
>>>> openness and wildness of that society — /_not_/ that 16th century
>>>> England is a mirror for 20th century English vices. There I think he's
>>>> wrong. I don't see Durrell ever turning his nose at a brothel. Godshalk
>>>> and Pine can best weigh in on this subject.
>>>> Bruce
>>>> On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Charles Sligh wrote:
>>>>> On 11/1/10 1:39 PM, Godshalk, William (godshawl) wrote:
>>>>>>        Ray Morrison got his information from  Deus Loci 4 (1980) 3-11, in an essay by Patrick von  Richtofen.
>>>>> Happy to oblige, Bill. See attached pdf, for which I have scanned only
>>>>> those pages making reference to Middleton&  Durrell.
>>>>> The remainder of Richtofen's piece treats /Tropic of Cancer/ and the
>>>>> /Hamlet/ letters, but not Middleton's /Blacke Booke/. This seems an
>>>>> opportunity missed.
>>>>> In my opinion, you have plenty of work to do on /The Black Book/ and
>>>>> /The Blacke Booke/, Bill. You know Shakespeare, Middleton,
>>>>> Elizabethiana,&c. better than anyone else with a working knowledge of
>>>>> Durrell. Go for it.
>>>>> My appreciation to the late Carol Peirce and Virginia Carruthers who
>>>>> gifted me the full run of the Old Style /Deus Loci/.
>>>>> Charles

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