[ilds] Ray, Patrick, Bruce and others

James Gifford james.d.gifford at gmail.com
Mon Nov 1 15:42:19 PDT 2010

Hi Bruce,

I like quibbles...  The polite jogging of points back & forth such that 
a fuller idea of the whole develops.  Not a dispute but a disquisition, 
in which we might hope several things dovetail in our minds.

You note that you agree with Richtofen's assessment of Middleton but:

> I question, however, the observation about
> "Durrell's essentially conservative literary
> and historical outlook" re the Elizabethans.

Would that qualify as a quibble of quality?  I suspect it's worth 
disputing further -- I think we'd be on the same side here (contra 
Richtofen) but likely not in agreement with each other either.


On 01/11/10 3:31 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> James,
> Quibbles?
> BR
> On Nov 1, 2010, at 3:10 PM, James Gifford wrote:
>> I should add, Richtofen's dissertation is extremely fine work, though I
>> do disagree with some points akin to Bruce's quibbles.  As for Durrell's
>> "essentially conservative" nature, I've argued against that rather strongly:
>> http://inscribe.iupress.org/doi/abs/10.2979/JML.2010.33.4.57
>> I signed an agreement not to post a copy to a listserv, but I'm free to
>> share with colleagues for academic purposes...
>> Cheers,
>> James
>> On 01/11/10 11:46 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>> Bill and Charles,
>>> I'm not one to make fun of family names — you live with what you've got
>>> — but Patrick von Richtofen's does cause me to pause and recall "The Red
>>> Baron." Could this mean something? I won't speculate. Anyway, I have
>>> /DL,/ vol. IV, no. 2 (in red cover, no less), which contains von
>>> Richtofen's "Lawrence Durrell, Prince of Denmark." I see that Charles is
>>> much quicker to the draw than I am and has already provided the relevant
>>> passages.
>>> Von Richthofen identifies Middleton's /Blacke Book/ as a source for
>>> Durrell's /Black Book/ and makes an interesting comment about Lucifer
>>> and the preeminent sin of pride — the very first and most important of
>>> the Seven Deadlies, the one that subsumes all the others — and its
>>> relevance to LD himself. I think he's right. Durrell's book reeks of
>>> pride, his own, his literary presumptuousness, sin or not. I question,
>>> however, the observation about "Durrell's essentially conservative
>>> literary and historical outlook" re the Elizabethans. My very limited
>>> sense of Durrell's love of the Elizabethans is that he admired the
>>> openness and wildness of that society — /_not_/ that 16th century
>>> England is a mirror for 20th century English vices. There I think he's
>>> wrong. I don't see Durrell ever turning his nose at a brothel. Godshalk
>>> and Pine can best weigh in on this subject.
>>> Bruce
>>> On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Charles Sligh wrote:
>>>> On 11/1/10 1:39 PM, Godshalk, William (godshawl) wrote:
>>>>>         Ray Morrison got his information from  Deus Loci 4 (1980) 3-11, in an essay by Patrick von  Richtofen.
>>>> Happy to oblige, Bill. See attached pdf, for which I have scanned only
>>>> those pages making reference to Middleton&  Durrell.
>>>> The remainder of Richtofen's piece treats /Tropic of Cancer/ and the
>>>> /Hamlet/ letters, but not Middleton's /Blacke Booke/. This seems an
>>>> opportunity missed.
>>>> In my opinion, you have plenty of work to do on /The Black Book/ and
>>>> /The Blacke Booke/, Bill. You know Shakespeare, Middleton,
>>>> Elizabethiana,&c. better than anyone else with a working knowledge of
>>>> Durrell. Go for it.
>>>> My appreciation to the late Carol Peirce and Virginia Carruthers who
>>>> gifted me the full run of the Old Style /Deus Loci/.
>>>> Charles
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