[ilds] Religions in Egypt

[Bruce Redwine]

Haag's Timeline is a calendar of historical facts with brief explanations, not a thorough discussion of events.  He mentions the legend of Mark proselytizing in Alexandria in 45, Hadrian dealing with Egyptian Christians in 130-31, and the founding of the Catechetical School in Alexandria in 180.  By 240, Roman citizens are prohibited from "embracing Christianity," and the "Delta is studded with Christianity communities."

How does this related to Lawrence Durrell?  Not directly.  As David Green mentions, what is interesting about Durrell is his "mindscape" (Richard Pine's term).  Durrell also had a strong religious impulse which caused him to dabble in a host of spiritual approaches.  The long religious history of Alexandria surely appealed to him, because it was basically "syncretic."  It was fertile ground for competing ideas.  It absorbed and reinterpreted and recombined many religions and philosophies — which also seems to have been the way Durrell's own fertile mind worked.  He read widely, took what he needed from sundry sources, and made up his own hodgepodge of religious folklore.  This process becomes transferred to his fiction.  That's why I find Scobie's character fascinating — in particular, Durrell's deification of El Scob.  Scobie is Durrell's mind at its best and most outrageous.


Bruce



On Aug 14, 2010, at 5:51 PM, Lee Sternthal wrote:

> sorry to be lazy, but does Haag cover where Dionysus would have picked up Pre-Nicaea Chrisitianity, let alone adopted it as belief system enough to convert populace? Before Constantine Christianity was just another competing ethos, wasn't it?
> 
> L 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Interesting questions.  Michael Haag's The Timeline History of Egypt (New York 2005) is useful in providing facts.  "247-64 Dionysus is the first patriarch of Alexandria actively to convert the native Egyptians" (p. 156).  The pharaonic religion persisted until supplanted by Christianity, but even now aspects of the "old religion" still exist.  If I'm not mistaken, the ancient "Opet festival" in pharaonic Thebes has a modern reflex in today's Luxor, under a new guise.  Durrell is very good at picking up the syncretic features of folk religion in Egypt.  In Clea, Scobie dies and becomes a Coptic saint, El Yacoub, and an Arabic one, El Scob (p. 82).  Also, Durrell's evocations of superstitions such as "the Evil Eye" are quite memorable.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 14, 2010, at 2:31 AM, Lee Sternthal wrote:
> 
>> At what point were the Copts converted to Christianity, and by whom?  What was their belief system before?  It couldn't have been before the 3rd Century.  
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> No offense intended, but Lawrence Durrell makes a distinction between the Copts and the general Egyptian population.  He fully develops his Coptic theme in Mountolive (Penguin 1991).  Here is what Durrell has Mr. Hosnani, Sr., say about his Coptic roots:  "'Do you know what they call us — the Moslems? . . . I will tell you.  Gins Pharoony.  Yes, we are genus Pharaonicus — the true descendants of the ancients, the true marrow of Egypt.  We call ourselves Gypt — ancient Egyptians.  Yet we are Christians like you, only of the oldest and purest strain'" (p. 41).
>> 
>> As I said before, I believe most Egyptians are in fact descendants of the ancient Egyptians.  That population, however, speaks Arabic, as a consequence of Amr's invasion in 641 CE.  A version of the original Egyptian language is preserved in the liturgy of the Coptic Church, and the Copts, who are Christians, think of themselves as a distinct minority within Egypt — and as Tarek Heggy, an Egyptian Muslim, has pointed out, Copts are treated differently.  This distinctiveness is what Durrell picks up on and elaborates in the Quartet.  So, I would not call Durrell's usage of "Copt" and all its connotations a "new trend."
>> 
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 13, 2010, at 2:12 PM, nabila marzouk wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear group,
>>> It hurts very much, I mean the new trend of saying that copts are the true descendents of ancient Egyptians. I donot know based on what  this rumour is so widely spread. As an Egyptian muslim I am the descendent of king Thut and queen Hatshpsut. When we celebrate anything national here we dress like ancient egyptians and talk about their glorious history. We never speak of ourselves as arabs or think that we have any arabic ancestors. Read history and you will know that most of the Egyptian muslims were descendents of a certain creed of Egyptian Christians who differed immensely from Orthodox church and also of christians who embraced Islam. Read history and you will know that when Amr left Egypt only no more than ten thousand arabic people stayed behind. Read history and you will know that it took Egypt more than 300 years to have the Islamic majority she has now which negates the idea that muslims are descendents of arabs while christians are descendents of ancient egyptians, otherwise I can say that christians are descendents of the Romans. The word copt should be used to refer to both muslims and christians because it means egyptian in ancient egyptian language. Please do not speak about me as if I were less Egyptian than I really am.
>>> nabila
>>> 
>>> --- On Wed, 7/28/10, Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20100815/5500a743/attachment.html