From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Mon Sep 17 17:37:46 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:37:46 -0400
Subject: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
In-Reply-To: <46ED8E56.3060902@gmail.com>
References: <46EB201F.1000209@wfu.edu> <EC.C3.27421.4253BE64@gwout2>
	<46EB94D0.7050009@interdesign.fr> <46EC3D3C.3080408@wfu.edu>
	<80.F8.27421.C174CE64@gwout2> <46EC4A9D.2010901@interdesign.fr>
	<23.25.27421.1C77CE64@gwout2> <46EC7CA0.50801@wfu.edu>
	<C5.E5.27421.3738DE64@gwout2> <46ED8E56.3060902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97.EF.28642.4DD1FE64@gwout2>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070917/3a92612d/attachment.html 

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 17 18:09:00 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:09:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
Message-ID: <8648380.1190077741334.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070917/75559408/attachment.html 

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue Sep 18 12:26:41 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:26:41 -0400
Subject: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
In-Reply-To: <8648380.1190077741334.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.
	earthlink.net>
References: <8648380.1190077741334.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F5.65.14226.C6620F64@gwout1>

Bruce,

Thanks for the good words. But there are images to think about and interpret.

I know this is much like Freudian free association, but it is fun -- I think.

What can we make of "By the deviation of a hair, / Is death so far, 
so far, no further"? Does he mean that death is quite close? Only a 
hair between us and the pit?

Speculatively, Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From Smithchamberlin at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 13:23:43 2007
From: Smithchamberlin at aol.com (Smithchamberlin at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:23:43 EDT
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 13
Message-ID: <ce3.1b869ceb.34218dcf@aol.com>

 
Why are the contents of the postings "scrubbed"?
        Brewster
 
In a message dated 9/18/2007 3:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca writes:

Send  ILDS mailing list submissions to
ilds at lists.uvic.ca

To  subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
or, via email, send a message  with subject or body 'help' to
ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca

You can reach the person managing the list  at
ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca

When replying, please edit  your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ILDS  digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. some random  thoughts on "Paris Journal." (william godshalk)
2. Re: some  random thoughts on "Paris Journal." (Bruce  Redwine)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:37:46 -0400
From: william godshalk  <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
Subject: [ilds] some random thoughts on  "Paris Journal."
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Message-ID:  <97.EF.28642.4DD1FE64 at gwout2>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii"

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:  
http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070917/3a92612d/attachment-0001.html  

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Sep  2007 18:09:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: Bruce Redwine  <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts  on "Paris Journal."
To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
Message-ID:
<8648380.1190077741334.JavaMail.root at elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

An HTML  attachment was scrubbed...
URL:  
http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070917/75559408/attachment-0001.html  

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
ILDS  mailing  list
ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


End  of ILDS Digest, Vol 6, Issue  13
***********************************







************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070918/ee13363a/attachment.html 

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 18 13:43:27 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:43:27 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] some random thoughts on
Message-ID: <25692676.1190148207949.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Bill, yes, and I'd give a sexual meaning to "pit," strengthened by all the references to pubic hair.  I also see Donne here, his religiosity, and the alliance of death and sex, i.e., the propensity to play on "petite mort."  Durrell is dark.

Bruce


-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: Sep 18, 2007 12:26 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
>
>Bruce,
>
>Thanks for the good words. But there are images to think about and interpret.
>
>I know this is much like Freudian free association, but it is fun -- I think.
>
>What can we make of "By the deviation of a hair, / Is death so far, 
>so far, no further"? Does he mean that death is quite close? Only a 
>hair between us and the pit?
>
>Speculatively, Bill
>***************************************
>W. L. Godshalk		*
>Department of English         *
>University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>***************************************
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From odos.fanourios at gmail.com  Tue Sep 18 13:55:22 2007
From: odos.fanourios at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:55:22 -0700
Subject: [ilds] "scrubbed" messages
In-Reply-To: <ce3.1b869ceb.34218dcf@aol.com>
References: <ce3.1b869ceb.34218dcf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46F03B3A.4090404@gmail.com>

Hi Brewster (and everyone else),

There's actually a very simple answer, but it has a long story...  When 
someone send a message in HTML format (fancy fonts & colours rather than 
just that typewriter font that some email programs default to), it is 
actually sent as an attachment to the email.  Since HTML is easy to 
read, it generally causes no problems and can be sent around easily (web 
pages are constructed in HTML as well, etc...).

However, if you're on the digest option for the listserv or if you're 
going through the online archives, those HTML messages are still 
attachments rather than plain text emails.  In order to show them, 
you'll have to follow a link to the attachment.  It would be difficult 
to set up a system of reliably converting those attachments into plain 
text.  Don't worry about viruses on these, since they're already scanned 
at the university -- it's just a mark-up language that gives more 
control over fonts, spacing, and so forth.

If you know how, please convert your messages to plain text when you 
send to the list, or else be aware that those on the daily digest or 
sorting through the archives will be disinclined to read that message. 
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it though.

Best,
Jamie

Smithchamberlin at aol.com wrote:
> Why are the contents of the postings "scrubbed"?
>         Brewster
>  

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue Sep 18 14:10:41 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:10:41 -0400
Subject: [ilds] some random thoughts on
In-Reply-To: <25692676.1190148207949.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.
	sa.earthlink.net>
References: <25692676.1190148207949.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A5.C7.14226.9CE30F64@gwout1>

Okay, the "pit" is a vaginal image taken with "manhair" meeting 
"maidenhair." And with that hint, perhaps the "axe" is phallic and 
the "knot" is another vaginal image. There is good Web evidence for 
the phallic axe. Evidence of the vagina as "knot" is less compelling.

And that "monster in the booth" is a strange monster

Bill


At 04:43 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>Bill, yes, and I'd give a sexual meaning to "pit," strengthened by 
>all the references to pubic hair.  I also see Donne here, his 
>religiosity, and the alliance of death and sex, i.e., the propensity 
>to play on "petite mort."  Durrell is dark.
>
>Bruce
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> >Sent: Sep 18, 2007 12:26 PM
> >To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
> >
> >Bruce,
> >
> >Thanks for the good words. But there are images to think about and 
> interpret.
> >
> >I know this is much like Freudian free association, but it is fun 
> -- I think.
> >
> >What can we make of "By the deviation of a hair, / Is death so far,
> >so far, no further"? Does he mean that death is quite close? Only a
> >hair between us and the pit?
> >
> >Speculatively, Bill
> >***************************************
> >W. L. Godshalk         *
> >Department of English         *
> >University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> >Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> >513-281-5927
> >***************************************
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >ILDS mailing list
> >ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> >https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue Sep 18 14:42:04 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:42:04 -0400
Subject: [ilds] some random thoughts on
In-Reply-To: <A5.C7.14226.9CE30F64@gwout1>
References: <25692676.1190148207949.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<A5.C7.14226.9CE30F64@gwout1>
Message-ID: <8C.19.29075.F2640F64@gwout2>


>And that "monster in the booth" is a strange monster
Of course it's the monster in "its" booth. But what precisely is "its booth"?

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue Sep 18 16:23:29 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:23:29 -0400
Subject: [ilds] monster in its booth
In-Reply-To: <8C.19.29075.F2640F64@gwout2>
References: <25692676.1190148207949.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<A5.C7.14226.9CE30F64@gwout1> <8C.19.29075.F2640F64@gwout2>
Message-ID: <96.24.14385.9ED50F64@gwout1>

George Williams (vol. 2, p. 905) notes that "monster" may refer to penis.



At 05:42 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:

> >And that "monster in the booth" is a strange monster
>Of course it's the monster in "its" booth. But what precisely is "its booth"?
>
>Bill
>***************************************
>W. L. Godshalk          *
>Department of English         *
>University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>***************************************
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 18 17:36:32 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:36:32 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Monster
Message-ID: <12318023.1190162192598.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Bill, I tend not to read Durrell's poems, on the whole, as an argument, in the same way that, say, Donne's poetry is -- with scene, speaker, and addressee, all following a certain logic.  I don't know how well Durrell was in control of his imagery and development or, indeed, how interested he was in trying to control it.  So, I don't know how worthwhile it is to say a = b = c, therefore, we end up with d.  I'd be quite happy to read the "monster in the booth" as some skeleton in Mr. Durrell's own private closet, one which he chose not to define.


Bruce


-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: Sep 18, 2007 2:10 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on
>
>Okay, the "pit" is a vaginal image taken with "manhair" meeting 
>"maidenhair." And with that hint, perhaps the "axe" is phallic and 
>the "knot" is another vaginal image. There is good Web evidence for 
>the phallic axe. Evidence of the vagina as "knot" is less compelling.
>
>And that "monster in the booth" is a strange monster
>
>Bill
>
>
>At 04:43 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>>Bill, yes, and I'd give a sexual meaning to "pit," strengthened by 
>>all the references to pubic hair.  I also see Donne here, his 
>>religiosity, and the alliance of death and sex, i.e., the propensity 
>>to play on "petite mort."  Durrell is dark.
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>> >From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>> >Sent: Sep 18, 2007 12:26 PM
>> >To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> >Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
>> >
>> >Bruce,
>> >
>> >Thanks for the good words. But there are images to think about and 
>> interpret.
>> >
>> >I know this is much like Freudian free association, but it is fun 
>> -- I think.
>> >
>> >What can we make of "By the deviation of a hair, / Is death so far,
>> >so far, no further"? Does he mean that death is quite close? Only a
>> >hair between us and the pit?
>> >
>> >Speculatively, Bill


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue Sep 18 18:17:42 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:17:42 -0400
Subject: [ilds] writing brings release
In-Reply-To: <12318023.1190162192598.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.
	earthlink.net>
References: <12318023.1190162192598.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <69.1C.29224.FA870F64@gwout2>

Okay, the monster may be a skeleton in the closet. Perhaps the image 
does fit in though with "Cannot write." The persona can't get the 
monster out of the closet because the persona cannot write him out. 
Writing would bring release.


At 08:36 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>Bill, I tend not to read Durrell's poems, on the whole, as an 
>argument, in the same way that, say, Donne's poetry is -- with 
>scene, speaker, and addressee, all following a certain logic.  I 
>don't know how well Durrell was in control of his imagery and 
>development or, indeed, how interested he was in trying to control 
>it.  So, I don't know how worthwhile it is to say a = b = c, 
>therefore, we end up with d.  I'd be quite happy to read the 
>"monster in the booth" as some skeleton in Mr. Durrell's own private 
>closet, one which he chose not to define.
>
>
>Bruce
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> >Sent: Sep 18, 2007 2:10 PM
> >To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on
> >
> >Okay, the "pit" is a vaginal image taken with "manhair" meeting
> >"maidenhair." And with that hint, perhaps the "axe" is phallic and
> >the "knot" is another vaginal image. There is good Web evidence for
> >the phallic axe. Evidence of the vagina as "knot" is less compelling.
> >
> >And that "monster in the booth" is a strange monster
> >
> >Bill
> >
> >
> >At 04:43 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
> >>Bill, yes, and I'd give a sexual meaning to "pit," strengthened by
> >>all the references to pubic hair.  I also see Donne here, his
> >>religiosity, and the alliance of death and sex, i.e., the propensity
> >>to play on "petite mort."  Durrell is dark.
> >>
> >>Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> >> >Sent: Sep 18, 2007 12:26 PM
> >> >To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >> >Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
> >> >
> >> >Bruce,
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for the good words. But there are images to think about and
> >> interpret.
> >> >
> >> >I know this is much like Freudian free association, but it is fun
> >> -- I think.
> >> >
> >> >What can we make of "By the deviation of a hair, / Is death so far,
> >> >so far, no further"? Does he mean that death is quite close? Only a
> >> >hair between us and the pit?
> >> >
> >> >Speculatively, Bill
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 18 18:59:58 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:59:58 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] writing brings release
Message-ID: <32858527.1190167199251.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Or not.


-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: Sep 18, 2007 6:17 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] writing brings release
>
>Okay, the monster may be a skeleton in the closet. Perhaps the image 
>does fit in though with "Cannot write." The persona can't get the 
>monster out of the closet because the persona cannot write him out. 
>Writing would bring release.
>
>
>At 08:36 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>>Bill, I tend not to read Durrell's poems, on the whole, as an 
>>argument, in the same way that, say, Donne's poetry is -- with 
>>scene, speaker, and addressee, all following a certain logic.  I 
>>don't know how well Durrell was in control of his imagery and 
>>development or, indeed, how interested he was in trying to control 
>>it.  So, I don't know how worthwhile it is to say a = b = c, 
>>therefore, we end up with d.  I'd be quite happy to read the 
>>"monster in the booth" as some skeleton in Mr. Durrell's own private 
>>closet, one which he chose not to define.
>>
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>> >From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>> >Sent: Sep 18, 2007 2:10 PM
>> >To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> >Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on
>> >
>> >Okay, the "pit" is a vaginal image taken with "manhair" meeting
>> >"maidenhair." And with that hint, perhaps the "axe" is phallic and
>> >the "knot" is another vaginal image. There is good Web evidence for
>> >the phallic axe. Evidence of the vagina as "knot" is less compelling.
>> >
>> >And that "monster in the booth" is a strange monster
>> >
>> >Bill
>> >
>> >
>> >At 04:43 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>> >>Bill, yes, and I'd give a sexual meaning to "pit," strengthened by
>> >>all the references to pubic hair.  I also see Donne here, his
>> >>religiosity, and the alliance of death and sex, i.e., the propensity
>> >>to play on "petite mort."  Durrell is dark.
>> >>
>> >>Bruce
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>> >> >Sent: Sep 18, 2007 12:26 PM
>> >> >To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> >> >Subject: Re: [ilds] some random thoughts on "Paris Journal."
>> >> >
>> >> >Bruce,
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks for the good words. But there are images to think about and
>> >> interpret.
>> >> >
>> >> >I know this is much like Freudian free association, but it is fun
>> >> -- I think.
>> >> >
>> >> >What can we make of "By the deviation of a hair, / Is death so far,
>> >> >so far, no further"? Does he mean that death is quite close? Only a
>> >> >hair between us and the pit?
>> >> >
>> >> >Speculatively, Bill


From odos.fanourios at gmail.com  Tue Sep 18 19:26:18 2007
From: odos.fanourios at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:26:18 -0700
Subject: [ilds] writing brings release
In-Reply-To: <69.1C.29224.FA870F64@gwout2>
References: <12318023.1190162192598.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<69.1C.29224.FA870F64@gwout2>
Message-ID: <46F088CA.1090702@gmail.com>

Without the monster, how would one write?  Without the pit, why would one?

I agree quite strongly with Bruce's reading of LD's poetry, although I 
think he took very great care with those things he chose not to control 
-- I see allusion, rhythm, and image all (typically) working in a 
careful balance, though I doubt he'd care if the poem ends somewhere 
other than where it starts, which might leave Donne quite undone.

And besides, Donne is effective when you figure something out -- I think 
Durrell's most effective when we don't...  How exciting would it be if 
we had certainty over exactly what the pit is?  As it stands, I'll more 
than likely stick my own 'pit' in the place of the one Durrell leaves 
ambiguous.

The allusions, however, tease one into action...

Best,
James

william godshalk wrote:
> Okay, the monster may be a skeleton in the closet. Perhaps the image 
> does fit in though with "Cannot write." The persona can't get the 
> monster out of the closet because the persona cannot write him out. 
> Writing would bring release.
> 
> 
> At 08:36 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>> Bill, I tend not to read Durrell's poems, on the whole, as an 
>> argument, in the same way that, say, Donne's poetry is -- with 
>> scene, speaker, and addressee, all following a certain logic.  I 
>> don't know how well Durrell was in control of his imagery and 
>> development or, indeed, how interested he was in trying to control 
>> it.  So, I don't know how worthwhile it is to say a = b = c, 
>> therefore, we end up with d.  I'd be quite happy to read the 
>> "monster in the booth" as some skeleton in Mr. Durrell's own private 
>> closet, one which he chose not to define.
>>
>>
>> Bruce

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 06:59:19 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:59:19 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] writing brings release
Message-ID: <17710405.1190210359670.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Yes, this is a very good point.


Bruce


-----Original Message-----
>From: James Gifford <odos.fanourios at gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 18, 2007 7:26 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] writing brings release

>
>And besides, Donne is effective when you figure something out -- I think 
>Durrell's most effective when we don't...

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed Sep 19 11:31:21 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:31:21 -0400
Subject: [ilds] John Press on Durrell's poem
In-Reply-To: <17710405.1190210359670.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.
	earthlink.net>
References: <17710405.1190210359670.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <27.48.14431.1FA61F64@gwout1>

Charlie cites John Press:

Press, pp. 178-179, comments briefly on our poem. First Press 
comments on Eliot's use of imagery "to evoke the desired mood in 
their readers. A comparatively simple example of the way a poet 
flicks from one image to another occurs in Lawrence Durrell's 
'Journal in Paris.' . . . We are clearly not meant to dwell on any 
one of these feverish images, whose purpose is to convey the 
insecurity and anxiety of the diarist. This rapid switching from one 
jagged image to the next is in marked contrast to the technique 
employed by Dylan Thomas . . . ."

If we are "clearly not meant to dwell on any one of these feverish 
images," we have really gone wrong here. But I see Press covering for 
himself. He's really saying, "I can't put these images together into 
a meaningful narrative, therefore I'm clearly not supposed to." As an 
academic I've seen this flimflam over and over again.

It seems to me that any  poem is a puzzle. Well maybe not "cold beer 
/ sold here," the great American poem. But from Homer to the present, 
poems have needed to be interpreted, puzzled out. And some times it 
takes a very long time to figure out what a poem means.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 12:14:22 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:14:22 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] John Press on Durrell's poem
Message-ID: <15935888.1190229262819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Bill, no argument here.  It takes a long time to make sense of some poems, and Durrell's are often a hard nut to crack.  "Puzzled out" is a good way to put it.  I think LD writes in a personal code, which is not readily accessible, so anyone not familiar with his life and work will run into problems, perhaps as J. Press did.  I would not expect "puzzled out" to yield clarity, however.


Bruce


-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: Sep 19, 2007 11:31 AM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: John Press on Durrell's poem
>
>Charlie cites John Press:
>
>Press, pp. 178-179, comments briefly on our poem. First Press 
>comments on Eliot's use of imagery "to evoke the desired mood in 
>their readers. A comparatively simple example of the way a poet 
>flicks from one image to another occurs in Lawrence Durrell's 
>'Journal in Paris.' . . . We are clearly not meant to dwell on any 
>one of these feverish images, whose purpose is to convey the 
>insecurity and anxiety of the diarist. This rapid switching from one 
>jagged image to the next is in marked contrast to the technique 
>employed by Dylan Thomas . . . ."
>
>If we are "clearly not meant to dwell on any one of these feverish 
>images," we have really gone wrong here. But I see Press covering for 
>himself. He's really saying, "I can't put these images together into 
>a meaningful narrative, therefore I'm clearly not supposed to." As an 
>academic I've seen this flimflam over and over again.
>
>It seems to me that any  poem is a puzzle. Well maybe not "cold beer 
>/ sold here," the great American poem. But from Homer to the present, 
>poems have needed to be interpreted, puzzled out. And some times it 
>takes a very long time to figure out what a poem means.
>
>Bill



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed Sep 19 15:35:51 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:35:51 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Press and images
Message-ID: <62.91.14431.E34A1F64@gwout1>

Charlie notes John Press's comments:

Press, pp. 178-179, touches briefly on our poem. First Press comments 
on Eliot's use of imagery "to evoke the desired mood in their 
readers. A comparatively simple example of the way a poet flicks from 
one image to another occurs in Lawrence Durrell's 'Journal in Paris.' 
. . . We are clearly not meant to dwell on any one of these feverish 
images, whose purpose is to convey the insecurity and anxiety of the 
diarist. This rapid switching from one jagged image to the next is in 
marked contrast to the technique employed by Dylan Thomas . . . ."

If we are "clearly not meant to dwell on any one of these feverish 
images," we have really gone wrong here. But I see Press covering for 
himself. He's really saying, "I can't put these images together into 
a meaningful narrative, therefore I'm clearly not supposed to." As an 
academic I've seen this flimflam over and over again.

It seems to me that any  poem is a puzzle. Well maybe not "cold beer 
/ sold here," the great American poem. But from Homer to the present, 
poems have needed to be interpreted, puzzled out. And some times it 
takes a very long time to figure out what a poem means.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************