From richardpin at eircom.net  Mon Jul 23 00:43:28 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (Richard Pine)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:43:28 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Enigma Machine
References: <FC4F8862-3894-11DC-B9E8-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <00e301c7ccfd$2c31ec90$a64e1359@rpinelaptop>

Is this the same Anwar Sadat who became (?) President of Egypt?
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Enigma Machine


> Du Maurier wrote Rebecca in Alexandria.  The Germans in the Western 
> Desert used Rebecca as their code book when communicating with their 
> spy in Cairo.  Their spy was an Alexandrian, half Egyptian, half 
> German, called John Eppler, and he operated a wireless on a houseboat 
> in the Nile.  He was assisted by an Egyptian officer called Anwar 
> Sadat.  Eppler was delivered to Cairo across the Western Desert by 
> Count Almasy, the English Patient.  One of the men who arrested Eppler 
> was John Cromer Braun, the man who interviewed Durrell as he stepped 
> off the boat in Alexandria in 1941.  Durrell and Eppler later met in 
> Paris and got on well.
> 
> It is not Rebecca that is Durrell's life story.  But the role played by 
> Rebecca in the war is the role played by Durrell's life story in 
> decoding his poems.
> 
> :Michael
> 
> 
> On Sunday, July 22, 2007, at 09:21  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> 
>> I haven't read du Maurier's Rebecca.  Think I'll rent the Hitchock 
>> movie instead (1940).  Do you think Durrell saw the film?
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>> Sent: Jul 22, 2007 11:46 AM
>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] Enigma Machine
>>>
>>>
>>> Durrell's Rebecca is his life story.
>>>
>>> :Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 22, 2007, at 07:22  pm, william godshalk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Very nice idea! An encryption machine. So we have to break the code 
>>>> of
>>>> Durrell Enigma Machine. Too bad we don't have his copy of Rebecca.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
>

From richardpin at eircom.net  Mon Jul 23 00:45:44 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (Richard Pine)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:45:44 +0100
Subject: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
References: <15968705.1185158992452.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <011301c7ccfd$7cdc6800$a64e1359@rpinelaptop>

In what way is Kafka incomprehensible/baffling?
For a really difficult poet, who doesn't deserve his huge reputation - 
Yeats.
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 3:49 AM
Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell


> Which poses an interesting problem.  If the poems are intended to be at 
> least in part incomprehensible, who will read them?  The poet is 
> destroying his own audience.  I'm trying to think of antecedents for this. 
> Perhaps Kafka?  Who published almost nothing and wrote mainly for his own 
> satisfaction and amusement?  And we all know how baffling Kafka is -- and 
> how great.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>
>>
>>Like it or not, Durrell may not want readers seeing too much into his
>>poems.
>>
>>:Michael
>>
>>
>>On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 01:14  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>
>>>  "At times, his vision is so private that, lacking the key, we find
>>> ourselves unable to decipher the vivid cryptograms which lie before
>>> us."
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> 


From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Mon Jul 23 01:52:23 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:52:23 +0200
Subject: [ilds] born without tongues
In-Reply-To: <432CE982-38D3-11DC-A2D6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <432CE982-38D3-11DC-A2D6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <46A46C47.108@interdesign.fr>

Michael, there is a second part to "Ideas About 
Poems" in N? 2 of PL, where LD talks about 
Nonsense, non-sense and resemblance to sense....
Marc

Michael Haag wrote:

> What Durrell did say about poems (Personal Landscape, issue One, I 
> think, but anyway found in the PL Anthology, pp77-8) is:
> 
> '1) Neither poet nor public is really interested in the poem itself but 
> in aspects of it.
> 2) The poet is interested in the Personal aspect: the poem as an aspect 
> of himself.
> 3) The public is interested in the Vicarious aspect; that is to say 
> "the universal application", which is an illusion that grows round a 
> poem once the logical meaning is clear and the syntax ceases to puzzle.
> 4) This is why good poems get written despite bad poets an why bad 
> publics often choose right.
> Meanwhile, the poem itself is there all the time.  The sum of these 
> aspects, it is quite different to what the poet and the public imagine 
> it to be.  Like a child or a climate it is quite outside us and our 
> theories don't affect it in any way.  Just as climate must be endured 
> and children kept amused, the poem as a Fact must be dressed up 
> sometimes and sent to the Zoo -- to get rid of it.  It is part of the 
> ritual of endurance merely.  People say that writing Poetry is one of 
> the only non-Gadarene occupations left -- but this is only another 
> theory or aspect.  Poems are Facts, and if they don't speak for 
> themselves it's because they were born without tongues.'
> 
> Note that in trying to decipher The Tree of Idleness we are performing 
> action 3.  But Durrell is interested in action 2.  These are not the 
> same thing; you can spend the rest of your life wrestling with 3 
> without coming a millimetre closer to 2.  Durrell is saying that the 
> poem is the sum of 2 and 3, but what he does not tell us is whether 2 
> is comprehensible.  What he does seem to expect is that the poem, 
> regardless of the poet or the public, will speak for itself, but if not 
> then that has nothing to do with the poet or the public, rather that 
> the poem itself which was born with no tongue.
> 
> What Durrell does not say is that he wants his readers to understand 
> his poems.
> 
> I see some sense in this.  I also see a fair amount of obfuscation in 
> this and a justification for privacy and incomprehensibility.
> 
> :Michael
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 23 05:54:25 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:25 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Enigma Machine
In-Reply-To: <00e301c7ccfd$2c31ec90$a64e1359@rpinelaptop>
Message-ID: <D7688B20-391B-11DC-B580-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

The very same.

:Michael


On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 08:43  am, Richard Pine wrote:

> Is this the same Anwar Sadat who became (?) President of Egypt?
> RP
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
> To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Enigma Machine
>
>
>> Du Maurier wrote Rebecca in Alexandria.  The Germans in the Western
>> Desert used Rebecca as their code book when communicating with their
>> spy in Cairo.  Their spy was an Alexandrian, half Egyptian, half
>> German, called John Eppler, and he operated a wireless on a houseboat
>> in the Nile.  He was assisted by an Egyptian officer called Anwar
>> Sadat.  Eppler was delivered to Cairo across the Western Desert by
>> Count Almasy, the English Patient.  One of the men who arrested Eppler
>> was John Cromer Braun, the man who interviewed Durrell as he stepped
>> off the boat in Alexandria in 1941.  Durrell and Eppler later met in
>> Paris and got on well.
>>
>> It is not Rebecca that is Durrell's life story.  But the role played 
>> by
>> Rebecca in the war is the role played by Durrell's life story in
>> decoding his poems.
>>
>> :Michael
>


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 23 06:06:53 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:06:53 +0100
Subject: [ilds] born without tongues
In-Reply-To: <46A46C47.108@interdesign.fr>
Message-ID: <9560A7C0-391D-11DC-B580-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

In which Durrell writes, inter alia

'Nonsense is never just nonsense; it is more like good sense with all 
the logic removed. ... Poems don't describe, but they are 
sounding-boards which enable the alert consciousness to pick up the 
reverberations of the extra-causal reality for itself. ... The words 
carry in them complete submerged poems; as you read your memory goes 
down like the loud pedal of a piano, and all your tribal, personal, 
associations begin to reverberate.'

Poems sound like a psychoanalytic procedure.

:Michael


On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 09:52  am, Marc Piel wrote:

> Michael, there is a second part to "Ideas About
> Poems" in N? 2 of PL, where LD talks about
> Nonsense, non-sense and resemblance to sense....
> Marc
>



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 23 10:04:08 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:04:08 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
Message-ID: <5206490.1185210249108.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Richard Pine asks why I consider Kafka incomprehensible and baffling.  A short answer, in a Durrellian context.  Kafka is not incomprehensible (I didn't say he was); in fact, his Czech German is quite lucid and a delight to read.  What's baffling is his subject matter, in particular parts of The Trial (the famous, "Before the Law") and the entirety of The Castle.  He writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and cosmic order.  This is not Durrell, whose odd English cannot match the clarity of Kafka's German.  Durrell seems to be using language as a smokescreen to hide something.  Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language cannot penetrate.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 7:49 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>
>Which poses an interesting problem.  If the poems are intended to be at least in part incomprehensible, who will read them?  The poet is destroying his own audience.  I'm trying to think of antecedents for this.  Perhaps Kafka?  Who published almost nothing and wrote mainly for his own satisfaction and amusement?  And we all know how baffling Kafka is -- and how great.
>
>Bruce
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>
>>
>>Like it or not, Durrell may not want readers seeing too much into his 
>>poems.
>>
>>:Michael
>>
>>
>>On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 01:14  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>
>>>  "At times, his vision is so private that, lacking the key, we find 
>>> ourselves unable to decipher the vivid cryptograms which lie before 
>>> us."


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Mon Jul 23 10:24:17 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:24:17 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <5206490.1185210249108.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <5206490.1185210249108.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <46A4E441.6090002@wfu.edu>

On 7/23/2007 1:04 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:

>          writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and cosmic order.  [. . . .] Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language cannot penetrate.

I am away from my Kafka books, Bruce, but this parable on parables comes 
to mind:

>         Concerning this a man once said: Why such reluctance? If you
>         only followed the parables you yourselves would become
>         parables and with that rid of all your daily cares.
>         --Another said: I bet that is also a parable.
>         --The first said: You have won.
>         --The second said: But unfortunately only in parable.
>         --The first said: No, in reality: in parable you have lost.
>         --"On Parables"

http://www.themodernword.com/kafka/kafka_quotes.html

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 23 10:41:03 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:41:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
Message-ID: <3066131.1185212463689.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Charles, I'm surprised you didn't bring in some of your Spaniards and Hispanics, the Magical Realists and other descendants of Kafka.

Along the way, it's probably useful to distinguish Durrell's vision of the "order" of things from others, such as Kafka.  I think LD's became darker and darker.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
>Sent: Jul 23, 2007 10:24 AM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
>
>On 7/23/2007 1:04 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
>>          writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and cosmic order.  [. . . .] Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language cannot penetrate.
>
>I am away from my Kafka books, Bruce, but this parable on parables comes 
>to mind:
>
>>         Concerning this a man once said: Why such reluctance? If you
>>         only followed the parables you yourselves would become
>>         parables and with that rid of all your daily cares.
>>         --Another said: I bet that is also a parable.
>>         --The first said: You have won.
>>         --The second said: But unfortunately only in parable.
>>         --The first said: No, in reality: in parable you have lost.
>>         --"On Parables"
>
>http://www.themodernword.com/kafka/kafka_quotes.html

>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 23 11:58:04 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:58:04 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
Message-ID: <21592686.1185217084354.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Vittorio:

Yes, reading Kafka is a beautiful and refreshing experience.  (One of my favorites:  that opening paragraph to Das SchloB.)  I don't know if we won't get to know Durrell, at least much better, but we certainly won't ever understand what Kafka saw and expressed with such mysterious clarity.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Vittorio Celentano <vcel at ix.netcom.com>
>Sent: Jul 23, 2007 11:35 AM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
>
>Bruce,
>
>Actually, I feel Kafka could easily reflect our present state of affairs. I
>am now reading Briefe an Milena, a beautiful book. Durrell, at his best, is
>poet and a painter if somewhat hermetic. His beautiful images are beyond
>analytical interpretation. Durrell, the man, we shall never know.
>
>Vittorio
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>To: "Durrell list" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 1:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
>
>
>> Richard Pine asks why I consider Kafka incomprehensible and baffling.  A
>short answer, in a Durrellian context.  Kafka is not incomprehensible (I
>didn't say he was); in fact, his Czech German is quite lucid and a delight
>to read.  What's baffling is his subject matter, in particular parts of The
>Trial (the famous, "Before the Law") and the entirety of The Castle.  He
>writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and cosmic
>order.  This is not Durrell, whose odd English cannot match the clarity of
>Kafka's German.  Durrell seems to be using language as a smokescreen to hide
>something.  Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language cannot penetrate.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>> >Sent: Jul 22, 2007 7:49 PM
>> >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> >Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>> >
>> >Which poses an interesting problem.  If the poems are intended to be at
>least in part incomprehensible, who will read them?  The poet is destroying
>his own audience.  I'm trying to think of antecedents for this.  Perhaps
>Kafka?  Who published almost nothing and wrote mainly for his own
>satisfaction and amusement?  And we all know how baffling Kafka is -- and
>how great.
>> >
>> >Bruce
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>> >>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM
>> >>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> >>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Like it or not, Durrell may not want readers seeing too much into his
>> >>poems.
>> >>
>> >>:Michael
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 01:14  am, william godshalk wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>  "At times, his vision is so private that, lacking the key, we find
>> >>> ourselves unable to decipher the vivid cryptograms which lie before
>> >>> us."
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 23 12:00:50 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:00:50 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
Message-ID: <27070789.1185217251518.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Well, then, we must disagree.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Pine <richardpin at eircom.net>
>Sent: Jul 23, 2007 11:57 AM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
>
>Can't agree at all. I read K when very young and it gave me no difficulty 
>whatsoever. (I do think you used 'incomprehensible' and 'baffling' in close 
>proximity, and I thought both words applied to K.) The Castle is crystal 
>clear, as is 'Before the Law', as far as subject matter is concerned and - 
>someone is going to holler at this - he strikes me as a paradigmtaic 
>post(-)colonial writer. Seeing Kafka's Prague, 40 years aftre having read 
>him, was an extra layer of eye-opening.
>RP
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>To: "Durrell list" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 6:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
>
>
>> Richard Pine asks why I consider Kafka incomprehensible and baffling.  A 
>> short answer, in a Durrellian context.  Kafka is not incomprehensible (I 
>> didn't say he was); in fact, his Czech German is quite lucid and a delight 
>> to read.  What's baffling is his subject matter, in particular parts of 
>> The Trial (the famous, "Before the Law") and the entirety of The Castle. 
>> He writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and 
>> cosmic order.  This is not Durrell, whose odd English cannot match the 
>> clarity of Kafka's German.  Durrell seems to be using language as a 
>> smokescreen to hide something.  Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language 
>> cannot penetrate.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 7:49 PM
>>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>>
>>>Which poses an interesting problem.  If the poems are intended to be at 
>>>least in part incomprehensible, who will read them?  The poet is 
>>>destroying his own audience.  I'm trying to think of antecedents for this. 
>>>Perhaps Kafka?  Who published almost nothing and wrote mainly for his own 
>>>satisfaction and amusement?  And we all know how baffling Kafka is -- and 
>>>how great.
>>>
>>>Bruce
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM
>>>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Like it or not, Durrell may not want readers seeing too much into his
>>>>poems.
>>>>
>>>>:Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 01:14  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  "At times, his vision is so private that, lacking the key, we find
>>>>> ourselves unable to decipher the vivid cryptograms which lie before
>>>>> us."
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>> 
>


From vcel at ix.netcom.com  Mon Jul 23 11:35:21 2007
From: vcel at ix.netcom.com (Vittorio Celentano)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:35:21 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
References: <5206490.1185210249108.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c7cd58$3a2492c0$f8d078d0@vittoriohx7smy>

Bruce,

Actually, I feel Kafka could easily reflect our present state of affairs. I
am now reading Briefe an Milena, a beautiful book. Durrell, at his best, is
poet and a painter if somewhat hermetic. His beautiful images are beyond
analytical interpretation. Durrell, the man, we shall never know.

Vittorio
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: "Durrell list" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell


> Richard Pine asks why I consider Kafka incomprehensible and baffling.  A
short answer, in a Durrellian context.  Kafka is not incomprehensible (I
didn't say he was); in fact, his Czech German is quite lucid and a delight
to read.  What's baffling is his subject matter, in particular parts of The
Trial (the famous, "Before the Law") and the entirety of The Castle.  He
writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and cosmic
order.  This is not Durrell, whose odd English cannot match the clarity of
Kafka's German.  Durrell seems to be using language as a smokescreen to hide
something.  Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language cannot penetrate.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Jul 22, 2007 7:49 PM
> >To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
> >
> >Which poses an interesting problem.  If the poems are intended to be at
least in part incomprehensible, who will read them?  The poet is destroying
his own audience.  I'm trying to think of antecedents for this.  Perhaps
Kafka?  Who published almost nothing and wrote mainly for his own
satisfaction and amusement?  And we all know how baffling Kafka is -- and
how great.
> >
> >Bruce
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
> >>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM
> >>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> >>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
> >>
> >>
> >>Like it or not, Durrell may not want readers seeing too much into his
> >>poems.
> >>
> >>:Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 01:14  am, william godshalk wrote:
> >>
> >>>  "At times, his vision is so private that, lacking the key, we find
> >>> ourselves unable to decipher the vivid cryptograms which lie before
> >>> us."
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From richardpin at eircom.net  Mon Jul 23 11:57:29 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (Richard Pine)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:57:29 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
References: <5206490.1185210249108.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <020f01c7cd5b$55155d50$a64e1359@rpinelaptop>

Can't agree at all. I read K when very young and it gave me no difficulty 
whatsoever. (I do think you used 'incomprehensible' and 'baffling' in close 
proximity, and I thought both words applied to K.) The Castle is crystal 
clear, as is 'Before the Law', as far as subject matter is concerned and - 
someone is going to holler at this - he strikes me as a paradigmtaic 
post(-)colonial writer. Seeing Kafka's Prague, 40 years aftre having read 
him, was an extra layer of eye-opening.
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: "Durrell list" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell


> Richard Pine asks why I consider Kafka incomprehensible and baffling.  A 
> short answer, in a Durrellian context.  Kafka is not incomprehensible (I 
> didn't say he was); in fact, his Czech German is quite lucid and a delight 
> to read.  What's baffling is his subject matter, in particular parts of 
> The Trial (the famous, "Before the Law") and the entirety of The Castle. 
> He writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and 
> cosmic order.  This is not Durrell, whose odd English cannot match the 
> clarity of Kafka's German.  Durrell seems to be using language as a 
> smokescreen to hide something.  Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language 
> cannot penetrate.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 7:49 PM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>
>>Which poses an interesting problem.  If the poems are intended to be at 
>>least in part incomprehensible, who will read them?  The poet is 
>>destroying his own audience.  I'm trying to think of antecedents for this. 
>>Perhaps Kafka?  Who published almost nothing and wrote mainly for his own 
>>satisfaction and amusement?  And we all know how baffling Kafka is -- and 
>>how great.
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM
>>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>>
>>>
>>>Like it or not, Durrell may not want readers seeing too much into his
>>>poems.
>>>
>>>:Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 01:14  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>>
>>>>  "At times, his vision is so private that, lacking the key, we find
>>>> ourselves unable to decipher the vivid cryptograms which lie before
>>>> us."
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> 


From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Mon Jul 23 13:13:07 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:13:07 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
In-Reply-To: <020f01c7cd5b$55155d50$a64e1359@rpinelaptop>
References: <5206490.1185210249108.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<020f01c7cd5b$55155d50$a64e1359@rpinelaptop>
Message-ID: <46A50BD3.7000304@interdesign.fr>

As far as "i" am concerned your eye has yet to be 
opened!!!
Wake up!!!
Marc

Richard Pine wrote:

> Can't agree at all. I read K when very young and it gave me no difficulty 
> whatsoever. (I do think you used 'incomprehensible' and 'baffling' in close 
> proximity, and I thought both words applied to K.) The Castle is crystal 
> clear, as is 'Before the Law', as far as subject matter is concerned and - 
> someone is going to holler at this - he strikes me as a paradigmtaic 
> post(-)colonial writer. Seeing Kafka's Prague, 40 years aftre having read 
> him, was an extra layer of eye-opening.
> RP
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: "Durrell list" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 6:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
> 
> 
> 
>>Richard Pine asks why I consider Kafka incomprehensible and baffling.  A 
>>short answer, in a Durrellian context.  Kafka is not incomprehensible (I 
>>didn't say he was); in fact, his Czech German is quite lucid and a delight 
>>to read.  What's baffling is his subject matter, in particular parts of 
>>The Trial (the famous, "Before the Law") and the entirety of The Castle. 
>>He writes in mysterious parables about an incomprehensible social and 
>>cosmic order.  This is not Durrell, whose odd English cannot match the 
>>clarity of Kafka's German.  Durrell seems to be using language as a 
>>smokescreen to hide something.  Kafka sees a smokescreen, which language 
>>cannot penetrate.
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>>From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 7:49 PM
>>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>>
>>>Which poses an interesting problem.  If the poems are intended to be at 
>>>least in part incomprehensible, who will read them?  The poet is 
>>>destroying his own audience.  I'm trying to think of antecedents for this. 
>>>Perhaps Kafka?  Who published almost nothing and wrote mainly for his own 
>>>satisfaction and amusement?  And we all know how baffling Kafka is -- and 
>>>how great.
>>>
>>>Bruce
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>>>Sent: Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM
>>>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] John Press and Durrell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Like it or not, Durrell may not want readers seeing too much into his
>>>>poems.
>>>>
>>>>:Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 01:14  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "At times, his vision is so private that, lacking the key, we find
>>>>>ourselves unable to decipher the vivid cryptograms which lie before
>>>>>us."
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ILDS mailing list
>>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 

From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Mon Jul 23 13:48:15 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:48:15 +0200
Subject: [ilds] [Fwd: Re:  Durrell chronology]
Message-ID: <46A5140F.1040407@interdesign.fr>

Is anybody receiving this message or has my order 
and check gone into virtual land??????????
I hold the managers of this list responsible: 
surely you checked the reliability of the 
information before putting up the offer on the 
list in the first place???
@+
Marc

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell chronology
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:34:49 +0200
From: Marc Piel <marcpiel at interdesign.fr>
Reply-To: marcpiel at interdesign.fr
Organization: InterDesign?
To: godshawl at email.uc.edu
References: 
<20070620224335.JRLT9981.gx5.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Hello,
I ordered this and sent a bank check to Corfu on
the 21 June, but still have not received the book.
Is this normal?
Marc Piel

william godshalk wrote:

> FYI
> 
>> A CHRONOLOGY OF THE LIFE AND TIMES OF LAWRENCE DURRELL
>>
>> Homme de Lettres
>>
>>  
>>
>> by
>>
>>  
>>
>> BREWSTER CHAMBERLIN
>>
>>  
>>
>> Advance comments on this valuable and entertaining book:
>>
>> Dr Chamberlin has written a superb time line and literary history. It 
>> contains a careful and marvelously complete charting, not only of 
>> Lawrence Durrell???s place within 20th Century literature but of the 
>> 20th Century itself. The listing of biographical, literary, social, 
>> and historical correspondences is both imaginative and insightful and 
>> produces a volume both convenient for the casual reader and essential 
>> for the serious scholar.
>>
>>                                                 James R. Nichols, 
>> Emeritus Professor and English 
>> Department                                                                
>> Chair Georgia Southern University, Chairman of 
>> the                                                                       
>> Durrell School of Corfu Board of Directors, 
>> and                                                                            
>> published author.
>>
>> ???This Chronology of Lawrence Durrell will not only be of great 
>> assistance to scholars of the writer, in charting his day-to-day or 
>> month-to-month activities, but will also enlighten them - and the less 
>> specialised reader - as to the moods, preoccupations and anxieties of 
>> a writer's life. Brewster Chamberlin has an extensive knowledge and 
>> appreciation of the arts in Europe and America, and brings this 
>> special insight to his account of Durrell's wide-ranging interests in 
>> painting, philosophy, politics as well as his bonhomie and general 
>> characteristic ability to cope with (most of) the triumphs and 
>> tribulations of an artist's life. The links to the lives of his 
>> mother, siblings, wives and children, and to the international context 
>> of literature, are especially valuable in placing Durrell within that 
>> context, while giving us a unique scenario for the work of creativity 
>> that was the centre of his life.???
>>
>>                                     Richard Pine, Director Emeritus, 
>> Durrell School of Corfu 
>> and                                                    author of 
>> Lawrence Durrell: The Mindscape (2005)
>>
>>  
>>
>> ???Chamberlin???s LD Chronology is a fascinating chronicle of times 
>> Durrellian and times macrocosmic.  If you know anything about Brewster 
>> you know that part of his genius is the ability to truffle out the 
>> hidden morsel of fact and to present it in an engaging manner.  He has 
>> made an impressive compilation of both the essential events and many 
>> of the small but significant way-posts of Durrell???s life, and has 
>> set them in juxtaposition with the world personalities and happenings 
>> of the twentieth century.  This book is at once an engaging read and 
>> an essential companion for the serious Durrell scholar.???
>>
>>                                     Ian MacNiven, author of Lawrence 
>> Durrell. A Biography (1998)
>>
>>  
>>
>> To order:
>>
>>             In North America send a check payable to Lynn-Marie Smith 
>> in the amount of US$15.00 (includes postage and handling) at PO Box 
>> 490, Key West FL 33041.
>>
>>  
>>
>>             In the rest of the world send a check payable to the 
>> Durrell School of Corfu in the amount of ?12.00 (includes postage and 
>> handling) to thee Durrell School of Corfu, PO Box 94, 49100 Corfu, Greece.
> 
> 
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk           *
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Mon Jul 23 18:39:45 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:39:45 -0400
Subject: [ilds] born without tongues
In-Reply-To: <9560A7C0-391D-11DC-B580-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <46A46C47.108@interdesign.fr>
	<9560A7C0-391D-11DC-B580-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070724013934.KWDF1729.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070723/de8f5051/attachment.html 

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Mon Jul 23 19:04:21 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:04:21 -0400
Subject: [ilds] [Fwd: Re:  Durrell chronology]
In-Reply-To: <46A5140F.1040407@interdesign.fr>
References: <46A5140F.1040407@interdesign.fr>
Message-ID: <20070724020419.TDIF3027.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

I sent my check a few weeks ago, and got my copy of the Chronology 
rather quickly.

It does exist!

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From leadale at mts.net  Mon Jul 23 20:23:19 2007
From: leadale at mts.net (Lea Stogdale)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:23:19 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Kafka and Durrell
Message-ID: <01C7CD78.132F8740.leadale@mts.net>

To better understand Kafka, if not Durrell, when your local Fringe Festival 
opens, rush off to see a one man performance "Kafka & Son." A brilliant 
piece of theatre performed by Alon Nashman; maybe from Ontario but doing 
the Fringe tour. The hour long production is about Franz Kafka's 
relationship with his father based upon his "Letter to His Father." It 
illuminates Kafka and his writting while having universal emotions, stark 
props, graphic lighting and brilliant acting. Everything that constitutes 
good theatre.
Lea

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release Date: 7/23/07 
7:45 PM


From richardpin at eircom.net  Tue Jul 24 00:48:33 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (Richard Pine)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:48:33 +0100
Subject: [ilds] born without tongues
References: <46A46C47.108@interdesign.fr><9560A7C0-391D-11DC-B580-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070724013934.KWDF1729.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <00ac01c7cdc7$1029a860$98471359@rpinelaptop>

How about Kafka: 'a book is an axe for the frozen sea within us'..?
RP
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: william godshalk 
  To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 2:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [ilds] born without tongues


  Okay, I certainly agree with Durrell. This following statement is surely nonsense. 

  Poems don't describe, but they are 
  sounding-boards which enable the alert consciousness to pick up the 
  reverberations of the extra-causal reality for itself.

  How does this comment help us read "The Tree of Idleness"? The poem is really a sounding-board that enables the "alert consciousness" to experience extra-causal reality? 

  I would not encourage my literature students to define a poem in this way.

  I would suggest that they use their yoga techniques and asanas. 

  Bill 

  ***************************************
  W. L. Godshalk           *
  Department of English         *
  University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
  Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
  513-281-5927
  *************************************** 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  ILDS mailing list
  ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
  https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
-------------- next part --------------
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From richardpin at eircom.net  Tue Jul 24 00:45:52 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (Richard Pine)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:45:52 +0100
Subject: [ilds] [Fwd: Re:  Durrell chronology]
References: <46A5140F.1040407@interdesign.fr>
Message-ID: <006301c7cdc6$adcc8930$98471359@rpinelaptop>

Marc, where are you mailing from? The Greek postal system is very slow - 
ordinary mail to, e.g., the UK will take maybe 10 days in each direction. 
The DSC office is normally staffed only on a Wednesday. You are being 
somewhat impatient. I am sure the book will reach you soon.
RPine
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Piel" <marcpiel at interdesign.fr>
To: <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
Cc: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 9:48 PM
Subject: [ilds] [Fwd: Re: Durrell chronology]


> Is anybody receiving this message or has my order
> and check gone into virtual land??????????
> I hold the managers of this list responsible:
> surely you checked the reliability of the
> information before putting up the offer on the
> list in the first place???
> @+
> Marc
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell chronology
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:34:49 +0200
> From: Marc Piel <marcpiel at interdesign.fr>
> Reply-To: marcpiel at interdesign.fr
> Organization: InterDesign?
> To: godshawl at email.uc.edu
> References:
> <20070620224335.JRLT9981.gx5.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
>
> Hello,
> I ordered this and sent a bank check to Corfu on
> the 21 June, but still have not received the book.
> Is this normal?
> Marc Piel
>
> william godshalk wrote:
>
>> FYI
>>
>>> A CHRONOLOGY OF THE LIFE AND TIMES OF LAWRENCE DURRELL
>>>
>>> Homme de Lettres
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> by
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BREWSTER CHAMBERLIN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Advance comments on this valuable and entertaining book:
>>>
>>> Dr Chamberlin has written a superb time line and literary history. It
>>> contains a careful and marvelously complete charting, not only of
>>> Lawrence Durrell???s place within 20th Century literature but of the
>>> 20th Century itself. The listing of biographical, literary, social,
>>> and historical correspondences is both imaginative and insightful and
>>> produces a volume both convenient for the casual reader and essential
>>> for the serious scholar.
>>>
>>>                                                 James R. Nichols,
>>> Emeritus Professor and English
>>> Department
>>> Chair Georgia Southern University, Chairman of
>>> the
>>> Durrell School of Corfu Board of Directors,
>>> and
>>> published author.
>>>
>>> ???This Chronology of Lawrence Durrell will not only be of great
>>> assistance to scholars of the writer, in charting his day-to-day or
>>> month-to-month activities, but will also enlighten them - and the less
>>> specialised reader - as to the moods, preoccupations and anxieties of
>>> a writer's life. Brewster Chamberlin has an extensive knowledge and
>>> appreciation of the arts in Europe and America, and brings this
>>> special insight to his account of Durrell's wide-ranging interests in
>>> painting, philosophy, politics as well as his bonhomie and general
>>> characteristic ability to cope with (most of) the triumphs and
>>> tribulations of an artist's life. The links to the lives of his
>>> mother, siblings, wives and children, and to the international context
>>> of literature, are especially valuable in placing Durrell within that
>>> context, while giving us a unique scenario for the work of creativity
>>> that was the centre of his life.???
>>>
>>>                                     Richard Pine, Director Emeritus,
>>> Durrell School of Corfu
>>> and                                                    author of
>>> Lawrence Durrell: The Mindscape (2005)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ???Chamberlin???s LD Chronology is a fascinating chronicle of times
>>> Durrellian and times macrocosmic.  If you know anything about Brewster
>>> you know that part of his genius is the ability to truffle out the
>>> hidden morsel of fact and to present it in an engaging manner.  He has
>>> made an impressive compilation of both the essential events and many
>>> of the small but significant way-posts of Durrell???s life, and has
>>> set them in juxtaposition with the world personalities and happenings
>>> of the twentieth century.  This book is at once an engaging read and
>>> an essential companion for the serious Durrell scholar.???
>>>
>>>                                     Ian MacNiven, author of Lawrence
>>> Durrell. A Biography (1998)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To order:
>>>
>>>             In North America send a check payable to Lynn-Marie Smith
>>> in the amount of US$15.00 (includes postage and handling) at PO Box
>>> 490, Key West FL 33041.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             In the rest of the world send a check payable to the
>>> Durrell School of Corfu in the amount of ?12.00 (includes postage and
>>> handling) to thee Durrell School of Corfu, PO Box 94, 49100 Corfu, 
>>> Greece.
>>
>>
>> ***************************************
>> W. L. Godshalk           *
>> Department of English         *
>> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>> 513-281-5927
>> ***************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 25 10:16:27 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:16:27 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Chamberlin's Chronology of Lawrence Durrell
Message-ID: <13958245.1185383788169.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I got my copy recently and have ordered a second.  Highly recommended.  Every Durrellian should have one, for home and travel -- indispensable.  Hats off to Chamberlin.  Not only succinct, witty, and informative, but you get juicy tidbits like this:  "Mid-September [1978]:  LD stays with the Thomases in Chelsea where he is visited by a young Alexandrian university student whom he ignores in favour of Margaret McCall.  The student threatens to kill herself but is talked out of this by Shirely Thomas's daughter" (p. 88).  Life imitates art.  Who was the young rejected woman?  Why?  Every entry leads to the next like a good mystery.

Bruce

From vcel at ix.netcom.com  Wed Jul 25 22:54:16 2007
From: vcel at ix.netcom.com (Vittorio Celentano)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:54:16 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Chamberlin's Chronology of Lawrence Durrell
References: <13958245.1185383788169.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000501c7cf49$6967efd0$f8d078d0@vittoriohx7smy>

Bruce,

What is called this book? The same incident is reported in Ian S. MacNiven's
biography of Lawrence Durrell.

Vittorio
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: "Durrell list" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: [ilds] Chamberlin's Chronology of Lawrence Durrell


> I got my copy recently and have ordered a second.  Highly recommended.
Every Durrellian should have one, for home and travel -- indispensable.
Hats off to Chamberlin.  Not only succinct, witty, and informative, but you
get juicy tidbits like this:  "Mid-September [1978]:  LD stays with the
Thomases in Chelsea where he is visited by a young Alexandrian university
student whom he ignores in favour of Margaret McCall.  The student threatens
to kill herself but is talked out of this by Shirely Thomas's daughter" (p.
88).  Life imitates art.  Who was the young rejected woman?  Why?  Every
entry leads to the next like a good mystery.
>
> Bruce
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From odos.fanourios at gmail.com  Wed Jul 25 23:16:25 2007
From: odos.fanourios at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:16:25 -0600
Subject: [ilds]  Chamberlin's Chronology of Lawrence Durrell
Message-ID: <46A83C39.5020800@gmail.com>

Hello Vittorio,



From odos.fanourios at gmail.com  Wed Jul 25 23:21:53 2007
From: odos.fanourios at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:21:53 -0600
Subject: [ilds] Chamberlin's Chronology of Lawrence Durrell
In-Reply-To: <46A83C39.5020800@gmail.com>
References: <46A83C39.5020800@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46A83D81.2090400@gmail.com>

Hello Vittorio (and my apologies to everyone for hitting "send" too soon),

The book is Brewster Chamberlin's chronology of Lawrence Durrell, 
recently published by the Durrell School of Corfu.  You can see the 
details in the listserve archives here:

https://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/Week-of-Mon-20070702/002174.html

Best,
James

From albigensian at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 26 07:01:10 2007
From: albigensian at hotmail.com (Pamela Francis)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:10 -0500
Subject: [ilds] LD article
Message-ID: <BAY108-F14ED2F8D46E4249BCFF513B0F20@phx.gbl>

Howdy folks--an alert reading friend sent this to me:


http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/quartet-trueheart.html

best always--pamela



From slighcl at wfu.edu  Thu Jul 26 07:25:42 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:25:42 -0400
Subject: [ilds] LD article
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F14ED2F8D46E4249BCFF513B0F20@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY108-F14ED2F8D46E4249BCFF513B0F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46A8AEE6.5060101@wfu.edu>

Thank you for passing on the Trueheart article on the /Quartet/, Pamela.

>         I came back to Durrell with mixed feelings, and as I read
>         through the four novels for the first time in 40-plus
>         years---encountering my own youthful enthusiasms in the
>         margins--- was sporadically impatient or mortified (for me,
>         for him) when I came across *examples of what Durrell himself
>         called his "over-efflorescence."* These lines from the opening
>         page of /Justine/ had merited heavy underlining when I was
>         young: "I see at last that none of us is properly to be judged
>         for what happened in the past. It is the city which should be
>         judged though we, its children, must pay the price." Today, I
>         might have scrawled: /Oh, please/.
>
>         * How can an author capable of subtlety and originality also
>         write potboiler sentences such as these? *[examples omitted here]
>         Memory and distance throw light on what The Alexandria Quartet
>         was a half century ago---a dying burst of romance in the
>         heyday of realism, an appeal to credulity on the eve of so
>         much skepticism, a bold experiment in form that in only a few
>         years literary experimentalism would render almost pallid. But
>         the books do bear rereading for the same reasons, as a sweet
>         remembrance of things from not so long ago. "Art occurs at the
>         point where a form is sincerely honored by an awakened
>         spirit," Durrell once aphorized. *By his lights and mine, The
>         Alexandria Quartet remains a work of art.*

The arc of Trueheart's comments recalls in some ways the arc of our 
discussion of /Justine /here on the list.  I will look forward to 
reading your comments.

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Thu Jul 26 17:48:53 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:48:53 -0400
Subject: [ilds] LD Truehart's article
In-Reply-To: <46A8AEE6.5060101@wfu.edu>
References: <BAY108-F14ED2F8D46E4249BCFF513B0F20@phx.gbl>
	<46A8AEE6.5060101@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070727004839.PQCV3027.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From eahunger at charter.net  Fri Jul 27 00:05:35 2007
From: eahunger at charter.net (Edward Hungerford)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:05:35 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Trueheart review
Message-ID: <d96f3727e67476850efa029a0e4c2174@charter.net>

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   The above attachment is my comment.  Hope that you can open and read 
this.   Ed Hungerford

From odos.fanourios at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 00:21:28 2007
From: odos.fanourios at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:21:28 -0600
Subject: [ilds] Trueheart review
In-Reply-To: <d96f3727e67476850efa029a0e4c2174@charter.net>
References: <d96f3727e67476850efa029a0e4c2174@charter.net>
Message-ID: <46A99CF8.2050409@gmail.com>

For what it's worth, the print version of the article contains a nice 
photo courtesy of UVic.  For the nature and purpose of the journal, I 
think the article serves well.

Best,
James

Edward Hungerford wrote:
> 
> 
>   The above attachment is my comment.  Hope that you can open and read 
> this.   Ed Hungerford

From odos.fanourios at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 00:16:24 2007
From: odos.fanourios at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:16:24 -0600
Subject: [ilds] LD Truehart's article
In-Reply-To: <20070727004839.PQCV3027.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
References: <BAY108-F14ED2F8D46E4249BCFF513B0F20@phx.gbl>	<46A8AEE6.5060101@wfu.edu>
	<20070727004839.PQCV3027.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <46A99BC8.1050807@gmail.com>

For those who may not have received the attachment, here are Ed's comments:

 >       "Art occurs at the
 >       point where a form is sincerely honored
 >       by an awakened spirit," Durrell once
 >       aphorized. *By his lights and mine, The
 >       Alexandria Quartet remains a work of art.*

The arc of Trueheart's comments recalls in some ways the arc of our
discussion of /Justine /here on the list.  I will look forward to
reading your comments.   (This from Charles)


Yes, Charles, we all have reactions to this somewhat flippant, but on 
the whole worthwile contribution to the rereading experiment and 
experience of   Durrell.   I was interested to see that Trueheart gave 
Durrell five wives?probably an indication that his ?research? was rather 
superficial.   (Trueheart says almost nothing about LD?s poetry, though 
acknowledging that the Quartet is really the work essentially,  of a 
poet, a comment with which I agree. )  I?m just setting out tomorrow on 
a short 4 or 5-day trip, and will be away from e-mail, but would like to 
follow your discussions.  Maybe when I return., I could add to the 
reactions.

   I have been impressed ?in past weeeks on this list--by James?s having 
come BACK to the AQ after having first become fascinated by parts of the 
Quintet.  That seems an unusual approach, and certainly was not my own . 
  I  began reading the Quartet in the sixties, a year or two after  the 
publication of all four novels with the Quartet complete in 1960.  Can?t 
recall the exact years, but I might have started reading the AQ in 1962 
or 1963, and discussed it with individual students before ever 
attempting to ?adopt? one part of the AQ in a course syllabus.  That 
came later, in the late 1960?s or maybe 1970.
Also, thanks to Pamela for forwarding this review.   Ed H.

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri Jul 27 16:11:27 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:11:27 -0400
Subject: [ilds] King Leer
In-Reply-To: <46A99BC8.1050807@gmail.com>
References: <BAY108-F14ED2F8D46E4249BCFF513B0F20@phx.gbl>
	<46A8AEE6.5060101@wfu.edu>
	<20070727004839.PQCV3027.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<46A99BC8.1050807@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070727231131.VWXF21001.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From gifford at uvic.ca  Fri Jul 27 16:39:44 2007
From: gifford at uvic.ca (James Gifford)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:39:44 -0600
Subject: [ilds] King Leer
In-Reply-To: <20070727231131.VWXF21001.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
References: <BAY108-F14ED2F8D46E4249BCFF513B0F20@phx.gbl>
	<46A8AEE6.5060101@wfu.edu>
	<20070727004839.PQCV3027.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<46A99BC8.1050807@gmail.com>
	<20070727231131.VWXF21001.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <2bfc74100707271639r7795227bk12ec61c8ebe34c3e@mail.gmail.com>

What about the other question -- why is Darley reading King Lear?
He's hardly an old King choosing among his daughters based on who
loves him the most, though he is torn between the poorly treated
Melissa who loves him and the manipulative Justine who does not.
Either way, I'd be about as likely to carry a copy of _King Lear_ to
the sands for a romantic interlude as I would _American Psycho_...

I wonder if Durrell had listed a different play in a previous draft.
In the Quartet he made numerous such last minute changes for a title
or between names such as Blake and Keats.

Best,
James

On 27/07/07, william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu> wrote:
> Justine , page 169:
> "A brilliant yellow patch on the dune showed up the cover of a pocket King
> Lear which I had taken out with me and forgotten to bring back... ."
>
> My eldest son, Elihu, called me today to suggest that Lear is a pun on leer.
> Nessim has been leering at the lovers through his telescope, gazing with a
> sly, immodest, or malign expression in his eye.
>
> Why is the cover yellow? Yellow is a symbol of jealousy and deceit.
>
> Bill
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk           *
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927***************************************

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 27 17:11:47 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:11:47 +0100
Subject: [ilds] King Leer
In-Reply-To: <2bfc74100707271639r7795227bk12ec61c8ebe34c3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21695A82-3C9F-11DC-97AC-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Macbeth.

:Michael

On Saturday, July 28, 2007, at 12:39  am, James Gifford wrote:

> What about the other question -- why is Darley reading King Lear?
> He's hardly an old King choosing among his daughters based on who
> loves him the most, though he is torn between the poorly treated
> Melissa who loves him and the manipulative Justine who does not.
> Either way, I'd be about as likely to carry a copy of _King Lear_ to
> the sands for a romantic interlude as I would _American Psycho_...
>
> I wonder if Durrell had listed a different play in a previous draft.
> In the Quartet he made numerous such last minute changes for a title
> or between names such as Blake and Keats.
>
> Best,
> James
>
> On 27/07/07, william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu> wrote:
>> Justine , page 169:
>> "A brilliant yellow patch on the dune showed up the cover of a pocket 
>> King
>> Lear which I had taken out with me and forgotten to bring back... ."
>>
>> My eldest son, Elihu, called me today to suggest that Lear is a pun 
>> on leer.
>> Nessim has been leering at the lovers through his telescope, gazing 
>> with a
>> sly, immodest, or malign expression in his eye.
>>
>> Why is the cover yellow? Yellow is a symbol of jealousy and deceit.
>>
>> Bill
>> ***************************************
>> W. L. Godshalk           *
>> Department of English         *
>> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>> 513-281-5927***************************************
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri Jul 27 17:19:23 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:19:23 -0400
Subject: [ilds] King Leer
In-Reply-To: <21695A82-3C9F-11DC-97AC-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <2bfc74100707271639r7795227bk12ec61c8ebe34c3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<21695A82-3C9F-11DC-97AC-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070728001921.WRMT3027.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 27 17:21:55 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:21:55 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] King Leer
Message-ID: <32033535.1185582115641.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 27 17:36:29 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:36:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] King Leer -- nothing
Message-ID: <3881571.1185582989724.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ah, nothing will come of nothing.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: Jul 27, 2007 5:31 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [ilds] King Leer -- nothing
>
>Bruce, for one reason and another, your message was blank.
>
>Bill
>
>At 08:21 PM 7/27/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: william godshalk 
>Sent: Jul 27, 2007 5:19 PM 
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca 
>Subject: Re: [ilds] King Leer 
>
>Thank you, Michael, for remembering that. I know that we havediscussed this before, but I could not remember that the original wasMacbeth which I think fits better if we see Nessim and Justine asMacbeth and his dark lady. After all, we learn later that Nessim andJustine are political schemers -- as are the Macbeths. Of course they arenot thinking of killing Farouk. Are they?
>
>Bill 
>
>
>At 08:11 PM 7/27/2007, you wrote:
>Macbeth.
>
>:Michael
>
>On Saturday, July 28, 2007, at 12:39  am, James Giffordwrote:
>
>> What about the other question -- why is Darley reading KingLear?
>> He's hardly an old King choosing among his daughters based onwho
>> loves him the most, though he is torn between the poorlytreated
>> Melissa who loves him and the manipulative Justine who doesnot.
>> Either way, I'd be about as likely to carry a copy of _KingLear_ to
>> the sands for a romantic interlude as I would _AmericanPsycho_...
>>
>> I wonder if Durrell had listed a different play in a previousdraft.
>> In the Quartet he made numerous such last minute changes for atitle
>> or between names such as Blake and Keats.
>>
>> Best,
>> James
>>
>> On 27/07/07, william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>wrote:
>>> Justine , page 169:
>>> "A brilliant yellow patch on the dune showed up thecover of a pocket 
>>> King
>>> Lear which I had taken out with me and forgotten to bringback... ."
>>>
>>> My eldest son, Elihu, called me today to suggest that Learis a pun 
>>> on leer.
>>> Nessim has been leering at the lovers through his telescope,gazing 
>>> with a
>>> sly, immodest, or malign expression in his eye.
>>>
>>> Why is the cover yellow? Yellow is a symbol of jealousy anddeceit.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> ***************************************
>>> W. L.Godshalk          *
>>> Department ofEnglish         *
>>> University ofCincinnati           Stellar disorder  *
>>> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069     *
>>> 513-281-5927***************************************
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>***************************************
>W. L.Godshalk          *
>Department of English        *
>University ofCincinnati           Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>*************************************** 
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>***************************************
>W. L.Godshalk          *
>Department ofEnglish         *
>University ofCincinnati           Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>***************************************


From albigensian at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 27 19:09:19 2007
From: albigensian at hotmail.com (Pamela Francis)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:09:19 -0500
Subject: [ilds] John Gawsworth
Message-ID: <BAY108-F30D54F651E2DBAC8B681C6B0EC0@phx.gbl>

Just found this--it reminds me of that great film clip some of us saw--where 
was it? VIctoria?--of LD and Gawsworth.  Enjoy--

http://www.javiermarias.es/REDONDIANA/JohnGawsworth.html



From richardpin at eircom.net  Sat Jul 28 02:37:47 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (Richard Pine)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:37:47 +0100
Subject: [ilds] John Gawsworth
References: <BAY108-F30D54F651E2DBAC8B681C6B0EC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00e401c7d0fa$f8802ea0$dd461359@rpinelaptop>

Sligh and other Paterians - note 'hard gem-like flame'. RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pamela Francis" <albigensian at hotmail.com>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:09 AM
Subject: [ilds] John Gawsworth


> Just found this--it reminds me of that great film clip some of us 
> saw--where
> was it? VIctoria?--of LD and Gawsworth.  Enjoy--
>
> http://www.javiermarias.es/REDONDIANA/JohnGawsworth.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> 


From richardpin at eircom.net  Sat Jul 28 02:48:33 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (Richard Pine)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:48:33 +0100
Subject: [ilds] John Gawsworth
References: <BAY108-F30D54F651E2DBAC8B681C6B0EC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00f101c7d0fc$7a0a9b80$dd461359@rpinelaptop>

The article refers to an appeal for funds for Gawsworth in 1970 - this may 
well be true, but if so there was also an earlier appeal, launched (I think) 
by the Wilde scholar John Stokes who was then at Reading Uni. My memory may 
be faulty as to who wrote the appeal, but there is no doubt whatsoever that 
it was prior to 1970, and a copy was sent to my father on account of his 
having been helpful to Gawsworth in the early part of WW2, for which G 
appointed my father a Duke of Redonda (this is hereditary, so this is where 
you all genuflect). My belief is that this earlier appeal was around 1965. 
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pamela Francis" <albigensian at hotmail.com>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:09 AM
Subject: [ilds] John Gawsworth


> Just found this--it reminds me of that great film clip some of us 
> saw--where
> was it? VIctoria?--of LD and Gawsworth.  Enjoy--
>
> http://www.javiermarias.es/REDONDIANA/JohnGawsworth.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> 


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat Jul 28 10:57:46 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:57:46 -0400
Subject: [ilds] John Gawsworth
In-Reply-To: <00e401c7d0fa$f8802ea0$dd461359@rpinelaptop>
References: <BAY108-F30D54F651E2DBAC8B681C6B0EC0@phx.gbl>
	<00e401c7d0fa$f8802ea0$dd461359@rpinelaptop>
Message-ID: <20070728175739.QGQC1729.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From Smithchamberlin at aol.com  Sat Jul 28 12:19:17 2007
From: Smithchamberlin at aol.com (Smithchamberlin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:19:17 EDT
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 33
Message-ID: <d41.ee96d9e.33dcf0b5@aol.com>

 
As Tom Lehrer once wrote and sang to a nifty tune relating to the  Vatican:
        Genuflect
        Genuflect
        Genuflect!
I guess ya gotta know the melody.
        Brewster
 
In a message dated 7/28/2007 3:00:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca writes:

Message:  9
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:48:33 +0100
From: "Richard Pine"  <richardpin at eircom.net>
Subject: Re: [ilds] John Gawsworth
To:  <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Message-ID:  <00f101c7d0fc$7a0a9b80$dd461359 at rpinelaptop>
Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

The article refers to an appeal for funds for  Gawsworth in 1970 - this may 
well be true, but if so there was also an  earlier appeal, launched (I think) 
by the Wilde scholar John Stokes who  was then at Reading Uni. My memory may 
be faulty as to who wrote the  appeal, but there is no doubt whatsoever that 
it was prior to 1970, and a  copy was sent to my father on account of his 
having been helpful to  Gawsworth in the early part of WW2, for which G 
appointed my father a Duke  of Redonda (this is hereditary, so this is where 
you all genuflect). My  belief is that this earlier appeal was around 1965.  
RP







************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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