From sumantranag at gmail.com  Mon May 14 05:26:07 2007
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:56:07 +0530
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 60
References: <mailman.1.1179082802.1925290.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
Message-ID: <007601c79623$14f34ee0$0201a8c0@intel>

Charles,

Thank you  for taking so much trouble while on an Atlantic (?) beach!! Some 
of those poems so painstakingly reproduced by you, are in the COLLECTION of 
1960. Yes, I was thinking precisely of EIGHT ASPECTS OF MELISSA. There is no 
direct reference to Melissa in all these 8 poems, is there? I don't know 
what to make of them.

I have deleted the poems in this reply, to economise on space.

Are *By the Lake* and *A Bowl of Roses* - from which I sent extracts in my 
posting - love poems written by Durrell in Alexandria, and addressed 
directly to the person who inspired the character of Melissa? Was there a 
person in Alexandria from whom Durrell drew the character of Melissa? I have 
not read the recently published works on Durrell or Alexandria (e.g, Ian 
McNiven, Michael Haag) so I don't have a clue. I have only read some older 
critical works [G.S. Fraser, Jane Lagoudis Pinchin (*Alexandria Still* - 
Cavafy, Forster, Durrell)].

Best wishes

Sumantra

> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:36:40 -0400
> From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
> Subject: [ilds] MELISSA poems
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <46473088.2000303 at wfu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On 5/13/2007 8:26 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote:
>
>> In COLLECTED POEMS (1960), Faber and Faber, I could not find some
>> poems which I seem to remember as forming a set: ....aspects of
>> Melissa....?
>
> Somone with a better memory and notes at hand help Sumantra--do I recall
> that Durrell gave a new title to those poems?  Jamie's bibliography is a
> good first place to check.  There I find
>
>    ---. "Eight Aspects of Melissa." _Circle_ .9 (1946): 1-8.
>
>
> Yes.  I do have the "Aspects" and the 1985 /Collected Poems/ through a
> database online here at the beach--thank you for bringing these up for
> us Sumantra--read below and tell us what you had in mind--I'll check in
> later today--back to the sharks--three Atlantic Snub-Nose this morning!
>
>
>        Durrell, Lawrence:  EIGHT ASPECTS OF MELISSA [from Collected
>        Poems: 1931-1974 (1985), Faber and Faber]
>
> 

From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 07:32:00 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 07:32:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney Irishness
	and	inspiration for his first novel
Message-ID: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Author, author???  "RP," I assume.  But who is the author of "durrells at otenet.gr"?

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>Sent: May 13, 2007 10:39 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney Irishness and	inspiration for his first novel
>
>Who is the author of the below unsigned message from 'durrell at bigpond'?
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <durrell at bigpond.com>
>To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>; "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 2:36 PM
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney Irishness and 
>inspiration for his first novel
>
>
>> identity is always a matter of a precognitive flow that defines our 
>> affectivity which in turn drives the process of choice born in 
>> circumstance...you do not choose your identity your identity is your 
>> affectivity which defines your choice....this is very important for those 
>> durrellian's pursuing an interest in entering LD's mindscape and 
>> affectivity
>> ---- Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Ilyas, thanks for the reply about Durrell's early schooling in India 
>>> among the Jesuits, for whom I have only the greatest respect.  I may add, 
>>> however, that my wife was schooled in Malaysia by Irish nuns, the order 
>>> of the Holy Infant Jesus, but she doesn't identify with their Irishness 
>>> in the least.  I'm suggesting that in some instances identity is a matter 
>>> of choice, not circumstance.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Mon May 14 09:19:35 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:19:35 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine:-- Durrell's Phony Irishness
In-Reply-To: <006e01c795e9$2d07c130$0100000a@DSC01>
Message-ID: <E7A642F7-0236-11DC-A9D0-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I am glad that Richard agrees with me.  I will read his chapter when I 
get the time.

:Michael


On Monday, May 14, 2007, at 06:31  am, Durrell School of Corfu wrote:

> Interestingly (or perhaps not), the points Michael makes about 
> Durrell's Irishness are exactly the points I make in the relevant 
> chapter of my book - 'Ireland as a State of Mind'. RP
>
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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Mon May 14 10:30:19 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:30:19 -0400
Subject: [ilds] four lush volumes
In-Reply-To: <E7A642F7-0236-11DC-A9D0-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <E7A642F7-0236-11DC-A9D0-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <46489CAB.4030605@wfu.edu>

Stopping to Smell the Flowers [book review]
By Patrick Anderson, washingtonpost
whose e-mail address is mondaythrillers at aol.com

Monday, May 14, 2007; Page C03

THE SAVAGE GARDEN
By Mark Mills
Putnam. 324 pp. $24.95
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/13/AR2007051301225.html

> The ability to write elegant prose is like being blessed with a pretty 
> face: It helps you get away with a lot. Many readers are going to 
> ignore the holes in Mills's plot because his prose carries you along 
> so smoothly you hardly notice them. People look for different things 
> in novels. A friend tells me that she adored Lawrence Durrell's 
> "Alexandria Quartet" for its writing and didn't care if precious 
> little happened in its four lush volumes. To each her own, but my 
> focus tends to be on plot; fine writing is a treat, but it's the 
> icing, not the cake. Still, on balance, "The Savage Garden" is an 
> impressive performance by a young British screenwriter whose first 
> novel, "Amagansett," was much admired three years ago.


-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************



From slighcl at wfu.edu  Mon May 14 10:40:00 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:40:00 -0400
Subject: [ilds] clarification
In-Reply-To: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <46489EF0.7070608@wfu.edu>

On 5/14/2007 10:32 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:

>Author, author???  "RP," I assume.  But who is the author of "durrells at otenet.gr"?
>
That author is, as some on the list will know, Richard Pine. 

Perhaps I am at fault for signing my emails with initials and starting a 
trend that can be unhelpful--"on seeming to presume" that my automatic 
tag with my full name and institution clarifies things.

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Mon May 14 10:58:28 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:58:28 +0100
Subject: [ilds] clarification
In-Reply-To: <46489EF0.7070608@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <B858A81E-0244-11DC-A772-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

But who is durrell at bigpond.com who wrote 'identity is always a matter 
of a precognitive flow that defines our affectivity which in turn 
drives the process of choice born in circumstance...you do not choose 
your identity your identity is your affectivity which defines your 
choice....this is very important for those durrellian's pursuing an 
interest in entering LD's mindscape and affectivity'?

:Donald Duck



On Monday, May 14, 2007, at 06:40  pm, slighcl wrote:

> On 5/14/2007 10:32 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
>> Author, author???  "RP," I assume.  But who is the author of 
>> "durrells at otenet.gr"?
>>
> That author is, as some on the list will know, Richard Pine.
>
> Perhaps I am at fault for signing my emails with initials and starting 
> a
> trend that can be unhelpful--"on seeming to presume" that my automatic
> tag with my full name and institution clarifies things.
>
> Charles
>
> -- 
> **********************
> Charles L. Sligh
> Department of English
> Wake Forest University
> slighcl at wfu.edu
> **********************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 10:57:03 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:57:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] four lush volumes
Message-ID: <3770345.1179165423489.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Thanks for the posting of the review, Charles.  Patrick Anderson's review of Mill's Savage Garden illustrates my problem with today's reading public.  Its appreciation of literature is largely plot-driven and ignores or pays little attention to all else that goes into writing good fiction.  It's simplistic and encourages simplemindedness.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
>Sent: May 14, 2007 10:30 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] four lush volumes
>
>Stopping to Smell the Flowers [book review]
>By Patrick Anderson, washingtonpost
>whose e-mail address is mondaythrillers at aol.com
>
>Monday, May 14, 2007; Page C03
>
>THE SAVAGE GARDEN
>By Mark Mills
>Putnam. 324 pp. $24.95
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/13/AR2007051301225.html
>
>> The ability to write elegant prose is like being blessed with a pretty 
>> face: It helps you get away with a lot. Many readers are going to 
>> ignore the holes in Mills's plot because his prose carries you along 
>> so smoothly you hardly notice them. People look for different things 
>> in novels. A friend tells me that she adored Lawrence Durrell's 
>> "Alexandria Quartet" for its writing and didn't care if precious 
>> little happened in its four lush volumes. To each her own, but my 
>> focus tends to be on plot; fine writing is a treat, but it's the 
>> icing, not the cake. Still, on balance, "The Savage Garden" is an 
>> impressive performance by a young British screenwriter whose first 
>> novel, "Amagansett," was much admired three years ago.
>
>
>-- 
>**********************
>Charles L. Sligh
>Department of English
>Wake Forest University
>slighcl at wfu.edu
>**********************
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 11:57:10 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:57:10 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine:-- Durrell's Phony Irishness
Message-ID: <31753215.1179169031189.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

On May 13, 2007, David Holdsworth wrote:
>
>He was a marvelous jokester, even though there is a strain of angst just
>below the surface. I always feel him playing with readers (and especially
>interviewers?) as James suggested. Bruce?s explanation also applies: Durrell
>created identities and fictions. To cover wounds? Just for fun? I think
>both.
>
>David Holdsworth
>
> 
                                   * * * * *

David elegantly sums up the Irish Question in Durrellian studies.  He's right.  Now, perhaps, we need someone to explain, in his or her good time, what was behind all the clowning around.

Bruce



From slighcl at wfu.edu  Mon May 14 13:22:16 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:22:16 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- Pursewarden & LD
In-Reply-To: <31753215.1179169031189.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <31753215.1179169031189.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4648C4F8.1090204@wfu.edu>

On 5/14/2007 2:57 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:

>Now, perhaps, we need someone to explain, in his or her good time, what was behind all the clowning around.
>
I had been thinking about that question again as I was finishing our 
reading of /Justine /2.1 - 2.7.  Darley's observations about the 
mysteries of Pursewarden's character and identity no doubt apply in some 
ways to the mysteries of Durrell's character and identity:

        He has begun to feel more and more wanting in true greatness
        while his name has been daily swelling in size like some
        disgusting poster. He has realized that people are walking the
        street with a Reputation now and not with a man.  They see him
        no longer--and all his work was done in order to draw attention
        to the lonely, suffering figure he felt himself to be.  His name
        has covered him like a tombstone.  And now comes the terrifying
        thought perhaps there/ is/ no one left to see?  Who, after all,
        is he? (2.6)

The pairing of Darley and Pursewarden is a touch that I am growing to 
admire more as time goes by.  In effect, Durrell creates in Darley the 
writer trying to get himself born into recognition and in Pursewarden 
the writer who has already become posthumous in his own time, a swollen 
"Reputation," rather than a real person during his own lifetime.  The 
first innovation has obvious autobiographical ramifications for the 
Lawrence Durrell who was writing /Justine/ and aspiring to fulfill early 
dreams and recommendations of promise.  The latter is eerily prescient 
and bittersweet--both for what "Lawrence Durrell" experienced in his 
moment of celebrity and for the ideas of "Lawrence Durrell" that we work 
through and debate on this listserv. 

        His name has covered him like a tombstone.  And now comes the
        terrifying thought perhaps there/ is/ no one left to see?  Who,
        after all, is he?

Richard had called us to remember that there was once a real person 
named "Lawrence Durrell," a son, a brother, a friend, a husband, a 
lover, a father, and an author whose writings have been left behind for 
us to read and about whom certain anecdotes and rumors still persist.  
That reminder is absolutely necessary.  But read these words on 
Pursewarden from 1957 and watch the filmed interviews of the literary 
celebrity called "Lawrence Durrell," and you come to the "terrifying 
thought" that Durrell was imagining most presciently the tombstone-like 
name that would come to cover him.

Borges saw the same sort of transformation overtaking at about the same 
moment as Durrell was entering into his years of celebrity.  In fact, 
the echoes are suggestive and I have always wondered if Durrell's 
citation of Borges as a kindred spirit was something more than opportunism:

>         The other one, the one called Borges, is the one things happen
>         to. I walk through the streets of Buenos Aires and stop for a
>         moment, perhaps mechanically now, to look at the arch of an
>         entrance hall and the grillwork on the gate; I know of Borges
>         from the mail and see his name on a list of professors or in a
>         biographical dictionary. I like hourglasses, maps,
>         eighteenth-century typography, the taste of coffee and the
>         prose of Stevenson; he shares these preferences, but in a vain
>         way that turns them into the attributes of an actor. It would
>         be an exaggeration to say that ours is a hostile relationship;
>         I live, let myself go on living, so that Borges may contrive
>         his literature, and this literature justifies me. It is no
>         effort for me to confess that he has achieved some valid
>         pages, but those pages cannot save me, perhaps because what is
>         good belongs to no one, not even to him, but rather to the
>         language and to tradition. Besides, I am destined to perish,
>         definitively, and only some instant of myself can survive in
>         him. Little by little, I am giving over everything to him,
>         though I am quite aware of his perverse custom of falsifying
>         and magnifying things.
>
>         Spinoza knew that all things long to persist in their being;
>         the stone eternally wants to be a stone and the tiger a tiger.
>         I shall remain in Borges, not in myself (if it is true that I
>         am someone), but I recognize myself less in his books than in
>         many others or in the laborious strumming of a guitar. Years
>         ago I tried to free myself from him and went from the
>         mythologies of the suburbs to the games with time and
>         infinity, but those games belong to Borges now and I shall
>         have to imagine other things. Thus my life is a flight and I
>         lose everything and everything belongs to oblivion, or to him.
>
>         I do not know which of us has written this page.
>
        http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/00/pwillen1/lit/borg&i.htm
        [I am away at the beach so I cannot quote frm the Spanish or
        from my preferred translations.]

Again, having just watched the documentary /Quiet Days in Sommieres/, a 
film in which Lawrence Durrell is quite obviously playing the "mask" of 
being "Lawrence Durrell"--cf. his acting as if he is too absorbed in 
yoga to answer the phone while the edited film flashes back and forth 
between the funny expression on his face, the phone, and the caller, 
Chili Hawes--these "terrifying thoughts" seem all the more relevant.  
Watching Durrell walk his guest around the house and receive his award 
from all of those friendly French people, I get the feeling that the 
whole thing is posthumous--that Durrell has a look in his eye as if he 
is standing on the other side of something and watching all of this 
happen from a great distance.

"Who, after all, is he?"  That question is important, and none of what I 
am saying here is meant to be read as flippant or precious.  A great 
deal of suffering is being admitted in this cagey character of 
Pursewarden, and it is all the more strange that Durrell had not 
suffered all of it fully at the time of writing of /Justine/.  Those 
moments of suffering would follow.

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Mon May 14 16:50:43 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:50:43 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- Pursewarden & LD
In-Reply-To: <4648C4F8.1090204@wfu.edu>
References: <31753215.1179169031189.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4648C4F8.1090204@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070514235018.BBRM13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Charley,

Wonderful writing! Ah, yes, and Borges -- a figure in my pantheon.

Richard is right of course to demand that we remember the real 
Lawrence Durrell -- the man who didn't like to travel, the man who 
didn't visit his friend in Istambul, the traveler who refused to get 
out of an armchair and go to see the Black Madonna of the gypsies. Or 
so Jean Franchette told me when we were deep in our cups.

But now that Durrell is dead, he has only a contingent existence. The 
words on the page, the aging memories, these are what's left of D.

But Pursewarden was never ever real in the sense that Lawrence 
Durrell was at one time real. Pursewarden exists only because 
Lawrence Durrell, the writer, put words on a page. Pursewarden was 
and is a verbal construction, and real only in the sense that we read 
Durrell's words about him or remember those words in our mind's eye.

So what can be the relationship of this verbal icon with the now dead 
-- or the formerly real -- Lawrence Durrell?

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 16:53:17 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:53:17 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- Pursewarden & LD
Message-ID: <10606060.1179186797779.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

On 5/14/07, Charles Sligh wrote:
>
>"Who, after all, is he?"  That question is important, and none of what I 
>am saying here is meant to be read as flippant or precious.  A great 
>deal of suffering is being admitted in this cagey character of 
>Pursewarden, and it is all the more strange that Durrell had not 
>suffered all of it fully at the time of writing of /Justine/.  Those 
>moments of suffering would follow.
>
>Charles
>
                                                * * * * *

Charles, a couple of jottings just to let you know someone is listening.  I like the contrast between Darley and Pursewarden as being two sides of the same coin.  I hadn't considered that from the angle you present:  writer to be vs. writer as has been.  My problem with Darley, as Michael has pointed out, is that he never really comes alive as a character, whereas Pursewarden is very much there.  In fact, he looms.  I find him the most interesting figure in the Quartet and his suicide the major event.  There could be a formal reason for this discrepancy, i.e., narrators tend not to make very interesting characters.  And I think many authors would rather not make their narrators protagonists.  (I'm speaking of novels, not short stories, where the reverse seems to be the case and different rules are in effect.)  Many exceptions to this rule, of course, Huck Finn for one.  But Ishmael is no more than a device to tell the story of Ahab and his obsession with a big whale.  I'm just throwing this out and not pushing the point.  I sense, however, that Durrell is most at ease and comfortable with himself, both as writer and person, when he's most inventive.  I haven't read everything by the man, so I hesitate to make generalizations.  Nevertheless, I find this tendency readily comes across in the travel books, when he invents a persona and a host of fellow travelers.  In books like Sicilian Carousel, he seems relaxed, he's having fun, and you the reader enjoy the experience with him.  I.e., he's not really himself, he's someone else.  Which is the way he prefers to have it.  But why?  Why can't Durrell let Durrell be Durrell, to turn around what people once said about President Ronald Reagan?  No offense intended.

Bruce


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Mon May 14 16:54:36 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:54:36 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine:-- Durrell's Phony Irishness
In-Reply-To: <31753215.1179169031189.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <31753215.1179169031189.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070514235421.BCCY13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>


>What was behind all the clowning around? asks Bruce.

Boyish high spirits I'd say. Perhaps some testosterone. Some male rivaly.

Bill

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:01:15 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:01:15 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine:-- Durrell's Phony Irishness
Message-ID: <13274595.1179187276291.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Bill, that's the simplest explanation, but not the most satisfactory, in my opinion.  I don't always opt for Occam's Razor.

Bruce


-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: May 14, 2007 4:54 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine:-- Durrell's Phony Irishness
>
>
>>What was behind all the clowning around? asks Bruce.
>
>Boyish high spirits I'd say. Perhaps some testosterone. Some male rivaly.
>
>Bill
>
>***************************************
>W. L. Godshalk		*
>Department of English         *
>University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>***************************************
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From durrells at otenet.gr  Mon May 14 21:38:13 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 07:38:13 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney
	Irishnessand	inspiration for his first novel
References: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001a01c796aa$d9d4d800$0100000a@DSC01>

Wrong assumption. Richard Pine (usually) writes from the Durrell School, 
which has 'durrells at otenet.gr' as its address. I was asking who writes from 
'durrell at bigpond'?
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney Irishnessand 
inspiration for his first novel


> Author, author???  "RP," I assume.  But who is the author of 
> "durrells at otenet.gr"?
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>>Sent: May 13, 2007 10:39 PM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney Irishness and 
>>inspiration for his first novel
>>
>>Who is the author of the below unsigned message from 'durrell at bigpond'?
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: <durrell at bigpond.com>
>>To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>; "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 2:36 PM
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney Irishness and
>>inspiration for his first novel
>>
>>
>>> identity is always a matter of a precognitive flow that defines our
>>> affectivity which in turn drives the process of choice born in
>>> circumstance...you do not choose your identity your identity is your
>>> affectivity which defines your choice....this is very important for 
>>> those
>>> durrellian's pursuing an interest in entering LD's mindscape and
>>> affectivity
>>> ---- Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Ilyas, thanks for the reply about Durrell's early schooling in India
>>>> among the Jesuits, for whom I have only the greatest respect.  I may 
>>>> add,
>>>> however, that my wife was schooled in Malaysia by Irish nuns, the order
>>>> of the Holy Infant Jesus, but she doesn't identify with their Irishness
>>>> in the least.  I'm suggesting that in some instances identity is a 
>>>> matter
>>>> of choice, not circumstance.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2264 (20070514) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue May 15 06:13:03 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 06:13:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's
	phoney	Irishnessand	inspiration for his first novel
Message-ID: <4161461.1179234783472.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

An anonymous prankster, I think, possibly from Down Under.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>Sent: May 14, 2007 9:38 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney	Irishnessand	inspiration for his first novel
>
>Wrong assumption. Richard Pine (usually) writes from the Durrell School, 
>which has 'durrells at otenet.gr' as its address. I was asking who writes from 
>'durrell at bigpond'?
>RP
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 5:32 PM
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Fw: Fwd: origins of Durrell's phoney Irishnessand 
>inspiration for his first novel
>
>
>> Author, author???  "RP," I assume.  But who is the author of 
>> "durrells at otenet.gr"?
>>
>> Bruce
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 11:21:12 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:21:12 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Bigpounders
In-Reply-To: <001a01c796aa$d9d4d800$0100000a@DSC01>
References: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<001a01c796aa$d9d4d800$0100000a@DSC01>
Message-ID: <20070515182055.RFUV26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

I have emailed the Bigpond address and asked for identification -- 
and received none. I don't think the Bigponders are members of this 
discussion group. If you are out there, please let us know who you 
are -- and join the discussion group.

Thanks.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 11:25:59 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:25:59 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Occam's razor
In-Reply-To: <13274595.1179187276291.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.
	sa.earthlink.net>
References: <13274595.1179187276291.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070515182552.RGYZ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>


>   I don't always opt for Occam's Razor.
>
>Bruce
I think you are right, sir! With humans, generally the most 
complicated solution is nearest the truth.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue May 15 11:47:48 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 11:47:48 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Occam's razor
Message-ID: <14463049.1179254868473.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Bill, I'll take your response at face value, although you're such an ironist I'm not sure.  However, when it comes to affairs of the human psyche, I think we're in complete agreement -- the most devious route is the truest.  Someone should accordingly revise William's most famous rule.  On the other hand, Pursewarden may have already done that in some lost notebook.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: May 15, 2007 11:25 AM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Occam's razor
>
>
>>   I don't always opt for Occam's Razor.
>>
>>Bruce
>I think you are right, sir! With humans, generally the most 
>complicated solution is nearest the truth.
>
>Bill
>***************************************
>W. L. Godshalk		*
>Department of English         *
>University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>***************************************
>
>


From durrells at otenet.gr  Tue May 15 12:26:14 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:26:14 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Bigpounders
References: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net><001a01c796aa$d9d4d800$0100000a@DSC01>
	<20070515182055.RFUV26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <000f01c79726$e704c770$0100000a@DSC01>

how could anyone get into the ILDS group without subscribing (and thus 
identifying themselves)? It has been suggested to me that this person might 
be an extremely suspect and annoying pseudo-psychiatrist named Anthony 
Durrell whom I, in an insane fit of enthusiasm, invited to speak at DSC 2005 
; he was not only entirely unsuitable but his presentation was an insult to 
all concerned. I invited him simply because (a) his name was Durrell and (b) 
he showed some professional interest in the sub jcet of 'Madness and 
Creativity ' (the topic of one of our 2005 seminars)  but his contribution 
was worthless and it was a huge embarrassment. I regret that (if it is he) 
he still has an ingress into the ILDS discussions.
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "william godshalk" <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: [ilds] Bigpounders


>I have emailed the Bigpond address and asked for identification -- 
> and received none. I don't think the Bigponders are members of this
> discussion group. If you are out there, please let us know who you
> are -- and join the discussion group.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk *
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2268 (20070515) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue May 15 12:37:07 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 12:37:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook found?
Message-ID: <4976789.1179257827925.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It's my understanding that Pursewarden's lost notebook is stuck at the back of the first set of MSS of God Is a Humourist, now found in the Pursewarden Archive, sometimes referred to as the Old Muniments Room, at the British Museum.  Access to that archive, however, is highly restricted.  The children and grandchildren of Ludwig and Liza Pursewarden scrutinize applicants closely.  Only disreputable scholars need apply.  It's also my understanding that Rob Sutcliffe has a permanent pass to the Muniments.  See him for further details.


Bruce
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>>Sent: May 15, 2007 11:56 AM
>>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: Pursewarden's lost notebook found?
>>
>>
>>>Pursewarden may have already done that in some lost notebook.
>>>
>>>Bruce
>>
>>Can anyone make a case for the existence of Pursewarden's lost 
>>notebook? Are there moments in the Alex Quartet that seem to indicate 
>>that there had been a notebook, now lost? (Did the real author 
>>Lawrence Durrell provide clues for its existence?)
>>
>>Bill (not being ironic)
>>***************************************
>>W. L. Godshalk		*
>>Department of English         *
>>University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>>513-281-5927
>>***************************************
>>
>>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 13:00:44 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:00:44 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Bigpounders
In-Reply-To: <000f01c79726$e704c770$0100000a@DSC01>
References: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<001a01c796aa$d9d4d800$0100000a@DSC01>
	<20070515182055.RFUV26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<000f01c79726$e704c770$0100000a@DSC01>
Message-ID: <20070515200038.HPLP13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

The moderators when they are feeling happy may allow non-
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 13:03:58 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:03:58 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Bigpounders
In-Reply-To: <000f01c79726$e704c770$0100000a@DSC01>
References: <2490361.1179153120374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<001a01c796aa$d9d4d800$0100000a@DSC01>
	<20070515182055.RFUV26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<000f01c79726$e704c770$0100000a@DSC01>
Message-ID: <20070515200412.SETA26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

The moderators when feeling generous may allow non-members to post to 
the list. Bigpounder may have got through after a few gin and tonics. 
Ours, not his. (Just jesting of course.)

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 13:08:56 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:08:56 -0400
Subject: [ilds]  Pursewarden's lost notebook not found
In-Reply-To: <4976789.1179257827925.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.
	earthlink.net>
References: <4976789.1179257827925.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070515200920.SFYK26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

I thought perhaps Charlie and/or Michael had consulted the archive 
and found it or found evidence for its existence. Sutcliffe does not 
respond to my email entreaties.

Bill


At 03:37 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>It's my understanding that Pursewarden's lost notebook is stuck at 
>the back of the first set of MSS of God Is a Humourist, now found in 
>the Pursewarden Archive, sometimes referred to as the Old Muniments 
>Room, at the British Museum.  Access to that archive, however, is 
>highly restricted.  The children and grandchildren of Ludwig and 
>Liza Pursewarden scrutinize applicants closely.  Only disreputable 
>scholars need apply.  It's also my understanding that Rob Sutcliffe 
>has a permanent pass to the Muniments.  See him for further details.
>
>
>Bruce

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From odos.fanourios at gmail.com  Tue May 15 13:28:32 2007
From: odos.fanourios at gmail.com (James Gifford)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:28:32 -0600
Subject: [ilds] Membership
In-Reply-To: <20070515182055.RFUV26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <C26F7410.C880%odos.fanourios@gmail.com>

Hello all,

This may be like preaching to the choir, but anyone is welcome to be on the
listserv, whether one is a member of the ILDS or not (no relations to the
LDS... Or is there...  Perhaps the next miraculous ground will involve a
great salt lake).

At any rate, I order the clubhouse sandwich all the time, and I'm not a
member of the club.

Best,
James


On 5/15/07 12:21 PM, "william godshalk" <godshawl at email.uc.edu> wrote:

> I have emailed the Bigpond address and asked for identification --
> and received none. I don't think the Bigponders are members of this
> discussion group. If you are out there, please let us know who you
> are -- and join the discussion group.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Bill
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk  *
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

___________________________
James Gifford
Department of English
University of Victoria
Victoria, B.C., Canada
http://web.uvic.ca/~gifford



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 13:33:20 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:33:20 -0400
Subject: [ilds] apologies
Message-ID: <20070515203304.OMIG4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Thank you, Charlie, for pointing out that Durrell at bigpond is a 
legitimate member of the list. I was dead wrong. Again.

I apologize for my misguided comments.

Sorry.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue May 15 13:38:14 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 13:38:14 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook not found
Message-ID: <13398928.1179261495024.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

No, I'm sure neither Charles nor Michael have access to the Old Muniments Room at the British Museum.  They don't meet the minimum standards of disrepute.  Standards must be maintained, you know.  That was Pursewarden's last wish.  I believe Sutcliffe spends most of his time in Venice chasing nymphs or nymphets.  I doubt if he checks his email regularly.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: May 15, 2007 1:08 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook not found
>
>I thought perhaps Charlie and/or Michael had consulted the archive 
>and found it or found evidence for its existence. Sutcliffe does not 
>respond to my email entreaties.
>
>Bill
>
>
>At 03:37 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>>It's my understanding that Pursewarden's lost notebook is stuck at 
>>the back of the first set of MSS of God Is a Humourist, now found in 
>>the Pursewarden Archive, sometimes referred to as the Old Muniments 
>>Room, at the British Museum.  Access to that archive, however, is 
>>highly restricted.  The children and grandchildren of Ludwig and 
>>Liza Pursewarden scrutinize applicants closely.  Only disreputable 
>>scholars need apply.  It's also my understanding that Rob Sutcliffe 
>>has a permanent pass to the Muniments.  See him for further details.
>>
>>
>>Bruce
>
>***************************************
>W. L. Godshalk		*
>Department of English         *
>University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>***************************************
>
>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue May 15 14:06:07 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:06:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook not found
Message-ID: <7295534.1179263167780.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


No, it's a reference to The Foreign Secretary's Rules and Standards of Diplomatic Protocol, comp. David Mountolive, MA, KB, OBE, 1941.  Despite rumors to the contrary, Pursewarden was a true Brit to the end.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: May 15, 2007 1:44 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook not found
>
>That looks like a reference to The Pooh Perplex:
>
> All of my colleagues may go to hell. Some before others. Standardsmust be maintained.
>
>I quote from mismemory.
>
>
>
>At 04:38 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>No, I'm sure neither Charles norMichael have access to the Old Muniments Room at the BritishMuseum.  They don't meet the minimum standards of disrepute. Standards must be maintained, you know.  That was Pursewarden's lastwish.  I believe Sutcliffe spends most of his time in Venice chasingnymphs or nymphets.  I doubt if he checks his emailregularly.
>
>Bruce
>_______________________________________________



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 16:06:17 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 19:06:17 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Enoch Soames
Message-ID: <20070515230602.IVJJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

It is my belief that Soames is part of this, shall we say, problem. 
It has been reported that he was engaged in the attempt to sell a 
literary manuscript of some value on the Paris market. The French 
authorities were just about to nail him when he fled to Prague and 
then eastward by rail into inner Asia, where he may have established 
resident in Shambala -- the mystical, mythical, REAL CITY. Justine 
may have joined him there.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Tue May 15 17:05:16 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:05:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Enoch Soames
Message-ID: <20023633.1179273916982.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Bill, many thanks.  You definitely have something here, and I'm just now beginning to make the connections.  It all fits.  Durrell didn't die in 1990.  It was all a ruse.  He made his way to some hidden valley in the Kunlun Mountains -- what's its name -- where he's now the head Lama in residence.  Justine is there with him, so too Clea and Melissa.  They all are, and they never grow old.  But this sounds rather familiar.  Didn't James Hilton describe something like this before?  LD plagiarized his own life.

Bruce
 
-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Sent: May 15, 2007 4:06 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] Enoch Soames
>
>It is my belief that Soames is part of this, shall we say, problem. 
>It has been reported that he was engaged in the attempt to sell a 
>literary manuscript of some value on the Paris market. The French 
>authorities were just about to nail him when he fled to Prague and 
>then eastward by rail into inner Asia, where he may have established 
>resident in Shambala -- the mystical, mythical, REAL CITY. Justine 
>may have joined him there.
>
>Bill
>***************************************
>W. L. Godshalk		*
>Department of English         *
>University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>513-281-5927
>***************************************
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Tue May 15 17:35:17 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:35:17 -0400
Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
In-Reply-To: <20023633.1179273916982.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.
	earthlink.net>
References: <20023633.1179273916982.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070516003501.TWVW26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Yes, absolutely. They live in the world of Shambala -- much like 
Tennyson's lake isle of Avillion. That's what literary characters do. 
Often you find Falstaff standing next to you in a bar.

At 08:05 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:

>Bill, many thanks.  You definitely have something here, and I'm just 
>now beginning to make the connections.  It all fits.  Durrell didn't 
>die in 1990.  It was all a ruse.  He made his way to some hidden 
>valley in the Kunlun Mountains -- what's its name -- where he's now 
>the head Lama in residence.  Justine is there with him, so too Clea 
>and Melissa.  They all are, and they never grow old.  But this 
>sounds rather familiar.  Didn't James Hilton describe something like 
>this before?  LD plagiarized his own life.
>
>Bruce

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From durrell at india.com  Tue May 15 18:30:33 2007
From: durrell at india.com (Lawrence Durrell)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:30:33 +0800
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
Message-ID: <20070516013033.CDD2D24780@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com>

The commonplace availability of the relativity theory and the principle of 
indeterminacy suggests that for every act of Shambalism there is a converse act of 
invisibilism, that we accommodate a ?darkness? at least equivalent to that which we 
have projected onto Asia and other unseen continents. Lhasa as ?a joint? is a metaphor 
for this condition, for this ?dark night of the soul? which seems the best description 
for the crisis in the humanities which is now a crisis for humanity. It is a purely 
subjective matter, a matter of personal faith, whether or not we can come out the 
other side sufficiently intact after the inevitable sacrifice that this will involve, 
sufficiently able to function as people capable of relations. At the moment, we are in 
that ?gap? or state of liminality in the words of Homi Bhabha, and which Durrell 
recognised in himself and incorporated in so many of his characters, before he took 
himself off to the Lake Isle of Shangri-la.

-- from a lecture by Anthony Durrell, psychiatrist and literary theorist, at the 
Durrell School, Corfu


=


-- 
_______________________________________________
Search for products and services at: 
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From gkoger at mindspring.com  Tue May 15 19:34:31 2007
From: gkoger at mindspring.com (gkoger at mindspring.com)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:34:31 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
Message-ID: <26902366.1179282872243.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Bruce and Bill,

I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been glimpsed notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."  
And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had been abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .

Grove Koger

-----Original Message-----
>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
>
>Yes, absolutely. They live in the world of Shambala -- much like 
>Tennyson's lake isle of Avillion. That's what literary characters do. 
>Often you find Falstaff standing next to you in a bar.
>
>At 08:05 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>
>>Bill, many thanks.  You definitely have something here, and I'm just 
>>now beginning to make the connections.  It all fits.  Durrell didn't 
>>die in 1990.  It was all a ruse.  He made his way to some hidden 
>>valley in the Kunlun Mountains -- what's its name -- where he's now 
>>the head Lama in residence.  Justine is there with him, so too Clea 
>>and Melissa.  They all are, and they never grow old.  But this 
>>sounds rather familiar.  Didn't James Hilton describe something like 
>>this before?  LD plagiarized his own life.
>>
>>Bruce




From sumantranag at gmail.com  Tue May 15 23:57:19 2007
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:27:19 +0530
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 62_Pursewarden
References: <mailman.5.1179255602.1024132.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
Message-ID: <000c01c79787$74ecbec0$0201a8c0@intel>

Was the character of Pursewarden drawn from Wyndham Lewis? I remember 
reading about this somewhere, long ago.

Sumantra Nag

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 12:30 AM
Subject: ILDS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 62


> >
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: RG Justine 2.6 -- Pursewarden & LD (slighcl)
>   2. Re: RG Justine 2.6 -- Pursewarden & LD (william godshalk)
>   3. Re: RG Justine 2.6 -- Pursewarden & LD (Bruce Redwine)
>   >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:22:16 -0400
> From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- Pursewarden & LD
> To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <4648C4F8.1090204 at wfu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On 5/14/2007 2:57 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
>>Now, perhaps, we need someone to explain, in his or her good time, what 
>>was behind all the clowning around.
>>
> I had been thinking about that question again as I was finishing our
> reading of /Justine /2.1 - 2.7.  Darley's observations about the
> mysteries of Pursewarden's character and identity no doubt apply in some
> ways to the mysteries of Durrell's character and identity:
>
> 


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 07:11:19 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 07:11:19 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
Message-ID: <1598653.1179324679427.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The excerpt is truly tantalizing.  I would very much like to read the entire lecture or any other essays Anthony Durrell has written on this subject.  Can anyone provide the lecture itself or other citations?

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Lawrence Durrell <durrell at india.com>
>Sent: May 15, 2007 6:30 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>
>The commonplace availability of the relativity theory and the principle of 
>indeterminacy suggests that for every act of Shambalism there is a converse act of 
>invisibilism, that we accommodate a ?darkness? at least equivalent to that which we 
>have projected onto Asia and other unseen continents. Lhasa as ?a joint? is a metaphor 
>for this condition, for this ?dark night of the soul? which seems the best description 
>for the crisis in the humanities which is now a crisis for humanity. It is a purely 
>subjective matter, a matter of personal faith, whether or not we can come out the 
>other side sufficiently intact after the inevitable sacrifice that this will involve, 
>sufficiently able to function as people capable of relations. At the moment, we are in 
>that ?gap? or state of liminality in the words of Homi Bhabha, and which Durrell 
>recognised in himself and incorporated in so many of his characters, before he took 
>himself off to the Lake Isle of Shangri-la.
>
>-- from a lecture by Anthony Durrell, psychiatrist and literary theorist, at the 
>Durrell School, Corfu
>
>
>=
>
>
>-- 
>_______________________________________________
>Search for products and services at: 
>http://search.mail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 07:16:55 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 07:16:55 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
Message-ID: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>
>Bruce and Bill,
>
>I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been glimpsed notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."  
>And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had been abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>
>Grove Koger
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>>Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
>>
>>Yes, absolutely. They live in the world of Shambala -- much like 
>>Tennyson's lake isle of Avillion. That's what literary characters do. 
>>Often you find Falstaff standing next to you in a bar.
>>
>>At 08:05 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>>Bill, many thanks.  You definitely have something here, and I'm just 
>>>now beginning to make the connections.  It all fits.  Durrell didn't 
>>>die in 1990.  It was all a ruse.  He made his way to some hidden 
>>>valley in the Kunlun Mountains -- what's its name -- where he's now 
>>>the head Lama in residence.  Justine is there with him, so too Clea 
>>>and Melissa.  They all are, and they never grow old.  But this 
>>>sounds rather familiar.  Didn't James Hilton describe something like 
>>>this before?  LD plagiarized his own life.
>>>
>>>Bruce
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 08:24:51 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:24:51 +0100
Subject: [ilds] transvestites
In-Reply-To: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I am intrigued by this book mentioned by Grove Koger, though I have 
found little else about it, only really this:

'The Flight Into Egypt by Philippe Julian. It concerns a Grand Duchess 
and her motley transvestite crew who supply pleasures to millionaires 
gathering in the desert of Egypt.'

Published in 1970, apparently.

:Michael


On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 03:16  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:

>
> Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until 
> I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>> Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>>
>> Bruce and Bill,
>>
>> I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as 
>> described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from 
>> the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been glimpsed 
>> notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."
>> And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had been 
>> abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and 
>> remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final 
>> apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>>
>> Grove Koger
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>>> Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>
>>> Yes, absolutely. They live in the world of Shambala -- much like
>>> Tennyson's lake isle of Avillion. That's what literary characters do.
>>> Often you find Falstaff standing next to you in a bar.
>>>
>>> At 08:05 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill, many thanks.  You definitely have something here, and I'm just
>>>> now beginning to make the connections.  It all fits.  Durrell didn't
>>>> die in 1990.  It was all a ruse.  He made his way to some hidden
>>>> valley in the Kunlun Mountains -- what's its name -- where he's now
>>>> the head Lama in residence.  Justine is there with him, so too Clea
>>>> and Melissa.  They all are, and they never grow old.  But this
>>>> sounds rather familiar.  Didn't James Hilton describe something like
>>>> this before?  LD plagiarized his own life.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From durrell at india.com  Wed May 16 07:48:25 2007
From: durrell at india.com (Lawrence Durrell)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 22:48:25 +0800
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
Message-ID: <20070516144825.7F38B7AF00@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com>

I would like to suggest that Lawrence Durrell is an extremely suspect and annoying pseudo-psychiatrist and literary theorist who in an insane fit of enthusiasm which lasted most of his life wrote numerous novels in a manner so clever that we can claim that by reading them we have authored them ourselves. Lawrence Durrell was not only entirely unsuitable but his novels were an insult to all concerned. I have read him and I speak about him today simply because (a) his name was Durrell and (b) he showed some interest in the subject of 'Madness and Creativity. But his contributions have been worthless and a huge embarrassment.  I regret that his books are still allowed on the shelves of reputable institutions.

-- extract from a talk given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu

=
Non Surgical Facelift: Flexeffect
Research shows increase in skin elasticity through Facialbuilding Facial trainers, compare techniques.
http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=8f7c166303473c6e09b2172b68c892a2


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_______________________________________________
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From leadale at mts.net  Wed May 16 09:00:58 2007
From: leadale at mts.net (Lea Stogdale)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 11:00:58 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
Message-ID: <01C797A9.7C81D860.leadale@mts.net>

Oh, to admit one's ignorance; how liberating.
Could someone please translate this into common parlance, preferably in 
English, and then explain what it means and it's relevance to Justine.
Thanks,
Lea

>Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>
>The commonplace availability of the relativity theory and the principle of 

>indeterminacy suggests that for every act of Shambalism there is a 
converse act of
>invisibilism, that we accommodate a 'darkness' at least equivalent to that 
which we
>have projected onto Asia and other unseen continents. Lhasa as 'a joint' 
is a metaphor
>for this condition, for this 'dark night of the soul' which seems the best 
description
>for the crisis in the humanities which is now a crisis for humanity. It is 
a purely
>subjective matter, a matter of personal faith, whether or not we can come 
out the
>other side sufficiently intact after the inevitable sacrifice that this 
will involve,
>sufficiently able to function as people capable of relations. At the mo  
ment, we are in
>that 'gap' or state of liminality in the words of Homi Bhabha, and which 
Durrell
>recognised in himself and incorporated in so many of his characters, 
before he took
>himself off to the Lake Isle of Shangri-la.
>
>-- from a lecture by Anthony Durrell, psychiatrist and literary theorist, 
at the
>Durrell School, Corfu

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/07 
12:17 PM


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 09:42:16 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:42:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
Message-ID: <18299069.1179333736765.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Better and better.  Is there more to come?  Please, don't tease -- release the full text.  Perhaps this essay will get wider circulation after the conference proceedings of "Madness and Creativity" (DSC, 2005) are published.  Is this in the offing?  I hope so.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Lawrence Durrell <durrell at india.com>
>Sent: May 16, 2007 7:48 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>
>I would like to suggest that Lawrence Durrell is an extremely suspect and annoying pseudo-psychiatrist and literary theorist who in an insane fit of enthusiasm which lasted most of his life wrote numerous novels in a manner so clever that we can claim that by reading them we have authored them ourselves. Lawrence Durrell was not only entirely unsuitable but his novels were an insult to all concerned. I have read him and I speak about him today simply because (a) his name was Durrell and (b) he showed some interest in the subject of 'Madness and Creativity. But his contributions have been worthless and a huge embarrassment.  I regret that his books are still allowed on the shelves of reputable institutions.
>
>-- extract from a talk given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu
>
>=
>Non Surgical Facelift: Flexeffect
>Research shows increase in skin elasticity through Facialbuilding Facial trainers, compare techniques.
>http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=8f7c166303473c6e09b2172b68c892a2
>
>
>-- 
>_______________________________________________
>Search for products and services at: 
>http://search.mail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From durrell at india.com  Wed May 16 10:12:44 2007
From: durrell at india.com (Lawrence Durrell)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:12:44 +0800
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
Message-ID: <20070516171244.EF562CA0A4@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>


Justine is Durrell: such a self-verifying metaphor refuses to allow us to see how it is constructed, but challenges us to go behind it to discover the further metaphors which support it.  Thus we also have the simultaneous equations "Durrell is the city" and "the city is Justine".  If so, only Durrell is "real" because "only the city is real".  However, the sand in the oyster is the wishful yet self-defeating statement "if Durrell were a world".

-- from the lecture given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu  

=
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Superb for Hair & Body Skins, massage and spa.
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From durrell at india.com  Wed May 16 11:27:32 2007
From: durrell at india.com (Lawrence Durrell)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 02:27:32 +0800
Subject: [ilds] Dr Anthony Durrell
Message-ID: <20070516182732.2AFC82477C@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com>


Dr Anthony Durrell, acclaimed for his lecture at the Durrell School, Corfu

http://www.shrink.com.au/html/2doc/durrell/durrell.html

=


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_______________________________________________
Search for products and services at: 
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From durrells at otenet.gr  Wed May 16 10:44:05 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:44:05 +0300
Subject: [ilds] transvestites
References: <970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <009c01c797e1$ccbf3fb0$0100000a@DSC01>

I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the extraordinary 
inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites


>I am intrigued by this book mentioned by Grove Koger, though I have
> found little else about it, only really this:
>
> 'The Flight Into Egypt by Philippe Julian. It concerns a Grand Duchess
> and her motley transvestite crew who supply pleasures to millionaires
> gathering in the desert of Egypt.'
>
> Published in 1970, apparently.
>
> :Michael
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 03:16  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
>>
>> Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until
>> I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>>> Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>
>>> Bruce and Bill,
>>>
>>> I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as
>>> described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from
>>> the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been glimpsed
>>> notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."
>>> And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had been
>>> abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and
>>> remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final
>>> apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>>>
>>> Grove Koger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>>>> Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>>
>>>> Yes, absolutely. They live in the world of Shambala -- much like
>>>> Tennyson's lake isle of Avillion. That's what literary characters do.
>>>> Often you find Falstaff standing next to you in a bar.
>>>>
>>>> At 08:05 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bill, many thanks.  You definitely have something here, and I'm just
>>>>> now beginning to make the connections.  It all fits.  Durrell didn't
>>>>> die in 1990.  It was all a ruse.  He made his way to some hidden
>>>>> valley in the Kunlun Mountains -- what's its name -- where he's now
>>>>> the head Lama in residence.  Justine is there with him, so too Clea
>>>>> and Melissa.  They all are, and they never grow old.  But this
>>>>> sounds rather familiar.  Didn't James Hilton describe something like
>>>>> this before?  LD plagiarized his own life.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From durrells at otenet.gr  Wed May 16 10:50:29 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:50:29 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
References: <20070516144825.7F38B7AF00@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <00b501c797e2$b129d3e0$0100000a@DSC01>

This is a characteristic response to my e-mail suggesting that the anonymous 
e-mail from 'durrell at bigpond' might be the appalling Anthony Durrell. I hope 
we never hear from his again, as his opinion on any subject on which I have 
heard him speak is absolutely worthless.
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Durrell" <durrell at india.com>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 5:48 PM
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell


>I would like to suggest that Lawrence Durrell is an extremely suspect and 
>annoying pseudo-psychiatrist and literary theorist who in an insane fit of 
>enthusiasm which lasted most of his life wrote numerous novels in a manner 
>so clever that we can claim that by reading them we have authored them 
>ourselves. Lawrence Durrell was not only entirely unsuitable but his novels 
>were an insult to all concerned. I have read him and I speak about him 
>today simply because (a) his name was Durrell and (b) he showed some 
>interest in the subject of 'Madness and Creativity. But his contributions 
>have been worthless and a huge embarrassment.  I regret that his books are 
>still allowed on the shelves of reputable institutions.
>
> -- extract from a talk given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, 
> Corfu
>
> =
> Non Surgical Facelift: Flexeffect
> Research shows increase in skin elasticity through Facialbuilding Facial 
> trainers, compare techniques.
> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=8f7c166303473c6e09b2172b68c892a2
>
>
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> Search for products and services at:
> http://search.mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From durrells at otenet.gr  Wed May 16 10:53:56 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:53:56 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
References: <18299069.1179333736765.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00bc01c797e3$2ce3b780$0100000a@DSC01>

We have published the proceedings of the seminar, as already advised to the 
ILDS group by an earlier e-mail. To repeat, 'Creativity, Madness and 
Civilisation', 2007, Cambridge Scholars Publishing (ed. Richard Pine). It 
does NOT contain anything by the worthless pseudo-psychiatrist Anthony 
Durrell because his contribution to our seminar was utterly pointless, 
unprofessional and insulting.
Richard Pine
Durrell School of Corfu
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell


> Better and better.  Is there more to come?  Please, don't tease -- release 
> the full text.  Perhaps this essay will get wider circulation after the 
> conference proceedings of "Madness and Creativity" (DSC, 2005) are 
> published.  Is this in the offing?  I hope so.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Lawrence Durrell <durrell at india.com>
>>Sent: May 16, 2007 7:48 AM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>
>>I would like to suggest that Lawrence Durrell is an extremely suspect and 
>>annoying pseudo-psychiatrist and literary theorist who in an insane fit of 
>>enthusiasm which lasted most of his life wrote numerous novels in a manner 
>>so clever that we can claim that by reading them we have authored them 
>>ourselves. Lawrence Durrell was not only entirely unsuitable but his 
>>novels were an insult to all concerned. I have read him and I speak about 
>>him today simply because (a) his name was Durrell and (b) he showed some 
>>interest in the subject of 'Madness and Creativity. But his contributions 
>>have been worthless and a huge embarrassment.  I regret that his books are 
>>still allowed on the shelves of reputable institutions.
>>
>>-- extract from a talk given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, 
>>Corfu
>>
>>=
>>Non Surgical Facelift: Flexeffect
>>Research shows increase in skin elasticity through Facialbuilding Facial 
>>trainers, compare techniques.
>>http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=8f7c166303473c6e09b2172b68c892a2
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Search for products and services at:
>>http://search.mail.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ILDS mailing list
>>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From durrells at otenet.gr  Wed May 16 10:55:55 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:55:55 +0300
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
References: <20070516171244.EF562CA0A4@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c797e3$73ccf210$0100000a@DSC01>

Anthony Durrell did not give any such lecture at the Durrell School. He 
blathered on about his own insufficiencies and did not mention his namesake 
except to insist that the emphasis was /is on the second syllable rather 
than the first. His insolence  was amazing.
RP
DSC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Durrell" <durrell at india.com>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine


>
> Justine is Durrell: such a self-verifying metaphor refuses to allow us to 
> see how it is constructed, but challenges us to go behind it to discover 
> the further metaphors which support it.  Thus we also have the 
> simultaneous equations "Durrell is the city" and "the city is Justine". 
> If so, only Durrell is "real" because "only the city is real".  However, 
> the sand in the oyster is the wishful yet self-defeating statement "if 
> Durrell were a world".
>
> -- from the lecture given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu
>
> =
> 100% Extra Virgin Coconut Oil
> Superb for Hair & Body Skins, massage and spa.
> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=c6a22853f3986b77b0ba909c30a49197
>
>
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> Search for products and services at:
> http://search.mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 12:12:45 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:12:45 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Julian's Flight
In-Reply-To: <970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 12:13:03 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:13:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] transvestites
Message-ID: <1982978.1179342784039.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I will bear that it mind, but also bear in mind that Jullian's Flight into Egypt is fiction, and fiction sets its own boundaries.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>Sent: May 16, 2007 10:44 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>
>I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the extraordinary 
>inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
>RP
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>
>
>>I am intrigued by this book mentioned by Grove Koger, though I have
>> found little else about it, only really this:
>>
>> 'The Flight Into Egypt by Philippe Julian. It concerns a Grand Duchess
>> and her motley transvestite crew who supply pleasures to millionaires
>> gathering in the desert of Egypt.'
>>
>> Published in 1970, apparently.
>>
>> :Michael
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 03:16  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until
>>> I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>>>> Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>>
>>>> Bruce and Bill,
>>>>
>>>> I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as
>>>> described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from
>>>> the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been glimpsed
>>>> notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."
>>>> And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had been
>>>> abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and
>>>> remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final
>>>> apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>>>>
>>>> Grove Koger
>>

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 12:17:49 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:17:49 +0100
Subject: [ilds] transvestites
In-Reply-To: <1982978.1179342784039.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <22B31448-03E2-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Anyway, are we not supposed to be distrusting everything written by 
Durrell?

:Michael


On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 08:13  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:

> I will bear that it mind, but also bear in mind that Jullian's Flight 
> into Egypt is fiction, and fiction sets its own boundaries.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>> Sent: May 16, 2007 10:44 AM
>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>>
>> I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the 
>> extraordinary
>> inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
>> RP
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>> To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>>
>>
>>> I am intrigued by this book mentioned by Grove Koger, though I have
>>> found little else about it, only really this:
>>>
>>> 'The Flight Into Egypt by Philippe Julian. It concerns a Grand 
>>> Duchess
>>> and her motley transvestite crew who supply pleasures to millionaires
>>> gathering in the desert of Egypt.'
>>>
>>> Published in 1970, apparently.
>>>
>>> :Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 03:16  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until
>>>> I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>>>>> Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>>>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce and Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as
>>>>> described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from
>>>>> the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been 
>>>>> glimpsed
>>>>> notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."
>>>>> And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had 
>>>>> been
>>>>> abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and
>>>>> remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final
>>>>> apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Grove Koger
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Wed May 16 12:17:12 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:17:12 -0400
Subject: [ilds] transvestites
In-Reply-To: <1982978.1179342784039.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1982978.1179342784039.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <464B58B8.80403@wfu.edu>

On 5/16/2007 1:44 PM, Durrell School of Corfu wrote:

>I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the extraordinary 
>inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
>
On 5/16/2007 3:13 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:

>I will bear that it mind, but also bear in mind that Jullian's Flight into Egypt is fiction, and fiction sets its own boundaries.
>
>Bruce
>
I think that it is precisely "the extraordinary inaccuracies" that would 
give /Flight Into Egypt--A Fantasy/ its chief interest for us.  One does 
not "trust" /fantasies /in quite the way that one would (perhaps) want 
to "trust" biographies.

Charlie

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 12:31:47 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:31:47 -0400
Subject: [ilds] transvestites
In-Reply-To: <22B31448-03E2-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <1982978.1179342784039.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<22B31448-03E2-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070516193140.OYIS13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 12:37:28 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:37:28 +0100
Subject: [ilds] transvestites
In-Reply-To: <20070516193140.OYIS13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <E18F4B9A-03E4-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I am only repeating what various eminences have said in these 
discussions.  I used to believe everything.  Now I believe that 
everyone is mad.

:Michael


On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 08:31  pm, william godshalk wrote:

> Anyway, are we not supposed to be distrusting everything written by
> Durrell?
> asks Michael.
>
>
> But "distrust" in what why? Obviously -- can I say obviously? -- a 
> narrator always has a point of view that slightly distorts his 
> narrative. Do you that kind of "distrust?"
>
> Bill?_______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 12:39:20 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:39:20 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Julian's sexy flight
In-Reply-To: <22B31448-03E2-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <1982978.1179342784039.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<22B31448-03E2-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070516193913.ZRKO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 12:53:43 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:53:43 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
Message-ID: <4619664.1179345224169.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


I would still like to read the entirety of Anthony Durrell's non-lecture at DSC, 2005.  That is, the missing pieces that go between the fragments we've been reading.

Bruce
 
-----Original Message-----
>From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>Sent: May 16, 2007 10:55 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
>
>Anthony Durrell did not give any such lecture at the Durrell School. He 
>blathered on about his own insufficiencies and did not mention his namesake 
>except to insist that the emphasis was /is on the second syllable rather 
>than the first. His insolence  was amazing.
>RP
>DSC
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Lawrence Durrell" <durrell at india.com>
>To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:12 PM
>Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
>
>
>>
>> Justine is Durrell: such a self-verifying metaphor refuses to allow us to 
>> see how it is constructed, but challenges us to go behind it to discover 
>> the further metaphors which support it.  Thus we also have the 
>> simultaneous equations "Durrell is the city" and "the city is Justine". 
>> If so, only Durrell is "real" because "only the city is real".  However, 
>> the sand in the oyster is the wishful yet self-defeating statement "if 
>> Durrell were a world".
>>
>> -- from the lecture given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Wed May 16 13:23:18 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:23:18 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- newspaper's edge
In-Reply-To: <20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
References: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <464B6836.3040403@wfu.edu>

Is there anything to be made of these little recurrent epiphanies?  
Anything that I am not recalling?

        A message scribbled on the edge of a newspaper. Here I spilt
        wine on her cloak, and while attempting to help her repair the
        damage, accidentally touched her breasts.  (2.7)

        Message on the corner of a newspaper.  Afterwards the closed
        cab, warm bodies, night, volume of jasmine. ("Consequential
        Data"/"Workpoints")

And does this "wine on the cloak trick" really work?

A reader of /Justine/.

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 14:13:19 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:13:19 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
In-Reply-To: <464B6836.3040403@wfu.edu>
References: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<464B6836.3040403@wfu.edu>
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From gifford at uvic.ca  Wed May 16 14:27:59 2007
From: gifford at uvic.ca (James Gifford)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:27:59 -0600
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
In-Reply-To: <20070516211322.MBT26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
References: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<464B6836.3040403@wfu.edu>
	<20070516211322.MBT26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <2bfc74100705161427p5c674d15l95c2f6b700bb7bed@mail.gmail.com>

> 2.7 is a very interesting passage. Basically it's a collection of images,
> with the sentence "Here I spilt wine on her cloak, and while attempting
> to help her repair the damage, accidentally touched her breasts" nestled
> among them. I think we need to ask Zizek's wonderful question "why this
> rather than something else?"

I don't typically trust Zizek, what with his wonderful inversion of
obversion..., but I wonder if this problems begs the question that
Michael's been asking for so long now.

That is, how would we (as readers) read this particular moment in the
text after we've read _Mountolive_ or _Clea_?  Is Darley the cunning
frat boy who spills wine accidentally on purpose (let's hope not), or
is Justine the cunning mastermind making the spill so that the
self-conscious frat boy can make repairs?  I suspect that as readers,
by the time we're re-reading the novels, we'd opt for the latter
explanation.  However, as Michael has so carefully argued, Durrell
hadn't planned an actual Quartet when he first wrote the typescript
for Justine that went to Fabers.  What then are we left with?  I think
only the simplest of all readings -- it's a scene in which wine was
accidentally spilled, perhaps with the temptresses' encouragement but
not with the same planning as we'd tend to read into it after the
Quartet, and an accidental slip occured.  Nothing more nor nothing
less...

Naturally, that doesn't answer why this rather than something else.  I
can only offer Doris Lessing's wonderful response to such a question:
isn't the implicit binary of the "or" an artificial imposition, why
not "and"?  Having this does not negate the possibility of something
else, so the "rather" is something typical of Zizek -- his imposition
of a new frame on the discussion so that it moves in his direction,
whether that imposition has anything to do with the matter at hand or
not.

Best,
Jamie

From slighcl at wfu.edu  Wed May 16 14:56:30 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:56:30 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
In-Reply-To: <2bfc74100705161427p5c674d15l95c2f6b700bb7bed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>	<20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>	<464B6836.3040403@wfu.edu>	<20070516211322.MBT26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<2bfc74100705161427p5c674d15l95c2f6b700bb7bed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <464B7E0E.5040307@wfu.edu>



On 5/16/2007 5:27 PM, James Gifford wrote:

>What then are we left with?  I think
>only the simplest of all readings -- it's a scene in which wine was
>accidentally spilled, perhaps with the temptresses' encouragement but
>not with the same planning as we'd tend to read into it after the
>Quartet, and an accidental slip occured.  Nothing more nor nothing
>less...
>

I think that the strange constellation of some split wine, Justine's 
breasts, and Zizek have deflected the conversation form my query.  (And 
could I really expect anything less?  Those breasts have launched a 
thousand . . . who can say?)  What of the message on the newspaper?  
Beyond episode 2.7 and the workpoint, does that scribbled note ever come 
up again in the /Quartet/, literally (plot) or figuratively?  I am 
having trouble recalling. . . .

I am happy to accept all of this bit  about notes in newspapers and 
touched breasts as an epiphany/ a la /Joyce--or, if you will forgive the 
expression, a "character-squeeze"--just checking.

Reading /Justine /as the tide comes back in.

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 15:50:01 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:01 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
Message-ID: <11870460.1179355802192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Lea asks a fair question, but the answer is beyond me.  Will the real Anthony Durrell please stand up and speak for himself?

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Lea Stogdale <leadale at mts.net>
>Sent: May 16, 2007 9:00 AM
>To: "'ilds at lists.uvic.ca'" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>
>Oh, to admit one's ignorance; how liberating.
>Could someone please translate this into common parlance, preferably in 
>English, and then explain what it means and it's relevance to Justine.
>Thanks,
>Lea
>
>>Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>
>>The commonplace availability of the relativity theory and the principle of 
>
>>indeterminacy suggests that for every act of Shambalism there is a 
>converse act of
>>invisibilism, that we accommodate a 'darkness' at least equivalent to that 
>which we
>>have projected onto Asia and other unseen continents. Lhasa as 'a joint' 
>is a metaphor
>>for this condition, for this 'dark night of the soul' which seems the best 
>description
>>for the crisis in the humanities which is now a crisis for humanity. It is 
>a purely
>>subjective matter, a matter of personal faith, whether or not we can come 
>out the
>>other side sufficiently intact after the inevitable sacrifice that this 
>will involve,
>>sufficiently able to function as people capable of relations. At the mo  
>ment, we are in
>>that 'gap' or state of liminality in the words of Homi Bhabha, and which 
>Durrell
>>recognised in himself and incorporated in so many of his characters, 
>before he took
>>himself off to the Lake Isle of Shangri-la.
>>
>>-- from a lecture by Anthony Durrell, psychiatrist and literary theorist, 
>at the
>>Durrell School, Corfu


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 15:56:18 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:56:18 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
In-Reply-To: <2bfc74100705161427p5c674d15l95c2f6b700bb7bed@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<464B6836.3040403@wfu.edu>
	<20070516211322.MBT26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<2bfc74100705161427p5c674d15l95c2f6b700bb7bed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070516225551.QIIA13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 16:23:33 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:23:33 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
 sentences
In-Reply-To: <464B7E0E.5040307@wfu.edu>
References: <5737140.1179325016292.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<970B68D0-03C1-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<464B6836.3040403@wfu.edu>
	<20070516211322.MBT26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<2bfc74100705161427p5c674d15l95c2f6b700bb7bed@mail.gmail.com>
	<464B7E0E.5040307@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070516232402.XEMT4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 16:38:16 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:38:16 -0400
Subject: [ilds] addresses written in the corner of newspapers
Message-ID: <20070516233749.BFGO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 17:11:14 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:11:14 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
	sentences
In-Reply-To: <20070516232402.XEMT4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <20839095-040B-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>


Just to comment on the actuality of some of those images in 2.7.  The 
Place Zaghloul (my preferred spelling) is what had earlier been, in E M 
Forster's time, the French Gardens and is now the Midan Orabi.  It is a 
square running off towards the corniche and the Eastern Harbour from 
the main square of the city, Place Mohammed Ali (now Midan al-Tahrir, 
ie Liberation Square).  All around that area there are grand buildings 
but also cafes and little shops.  Eve's father had his money changing 
business in the Place Mohammed Ali with a draw-down metal front.  Caged 
birds were and still are sold there and in the streets behind, also 
along and just off the Rue Cherif Pasha, what used to be Alexandria's 
Bond Street, and which runs into Place Mohammed Ali.  Forster recounts 
a fracas to do with caged birds in Place Mohammed Ali in one of his 
letters during the First World War.  On two opposite sides of the Place 
Mohammed Ali there are galleries -- I mean buildings constructed like 
the Victor Emmanuel gallery in Milan but not so large.  So the Place 
Zaghloul was flanked on either side, at its Place Mohammed Ali end, 
with these galleries.  Each complex is arranged in four blocks with 
broad promenades between them in the plan of a cross.  Roofs of glass 
span the these promenades making them all-weather places, making them 
pleasant for shopper and for cafes and restaurants which have their 
tables set out there.  Or which did.  All of this is pretty much past, 
but there are a few dumpy cafes and restaurants still surviving even 
though in at least one case that I recall someone has built the tomb of 
a Muslim saint splat in the middle of the goings-on.  And so you sit 
there, as you would have sat there in the past, sort of outdoors yet 
indoors, the choking smoke rising from the open grill (but the retsina 
barrels gone owing to the lack of Greeks and to the Islamists, and so 
having to make do with tea or coffee or Fanta), exactly as Durrell 
describes the scene.  One of these galleries, by the way, was called 
the Gallerie Menasce; it was built by the grandfather of Durrell's wife 
Claude.  I say that these are all-weather places, but what they really 
offer protection against is the sun which can be fierce in Alexandria; 
the gallery arrangement is perfect for that; and the fierceness of the 
sun also explains why the streets of Alexandria are so narrow -- high 
and narrow, so that they are as far as possible always in shadow, the 
buildings and houses all with cooling balconies.

:Michael




On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 12:23  am, william godshalk wrote:

> Charlie, I'll bet you have an answer for the image of a newspaper with 
> a message scribbled on the edge.
>
> But in context it appears to be an isolated image. Now that I look at 
> the passage again, there are two sentences. The second is "No word was 
> spoken." That may or may not follow the touching of the breast, i.e. I 
> spilt wine on her, touched her breast, but we said nothing. Perhaps 
> the silence is an isolated image.
>
> Whose breast is touched?
>
> Is this a scene from the Place Zagloul? Why silverware and caged 
> doves? Why are the whitebait "flying"? The "smoke" may suggest that 
> the fish are being cooked or smoked. I cannot find retzinnato. I 
> assume it's retzina given the "black barrels."
>
> While Pursewarden spoke so brilliantly of Alexandria and the burning 
> library. "While" when? While the breast is being touched?
>
> And finally the wretch screaming with meningitis . . .? .
>
> Are these isolated images?
>
> Bill_______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 17:28:48 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:28:48 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
 sentences
In-Reply-To: <20839095-040B-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070516232402.XEMT4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<20839095-040B-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070517002830.QSYU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 17:28:58 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:28:58 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7
Message-ID: <9A7B5D06-040D-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Attached is a photograph of Mohammed Ali Square as it was around the 
time of the First World War.  It would not have looked much different 
in the 1930s except that there would have been some motor cars.  The 
view is from the Bourse.  On the right is the English Church, St 
Mark's.  Half way down on the right hand side of the square there is a 
gap between two high buildings -- this is where the French Gardens, 
later Place Zaghloul, ran off towards the Corniche.  The buildings are 
the gallerias I referred to, the scene of the choking smoke, perhaps 
even the wine on Justine's cloak.  Eve Cohen's father's shop was on the 
left of the picture, facing that tram.

:Michael



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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 17:37:32 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:37:32 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7
Message-ID: <CCD3C91A-040E-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I think if you click on the image below it will enlarge.  It shows the 
Place Zaghloul that Durrell is describing.  The photograph is taken 
from Place Mohammed Ali; in the distance is the Corniche.  As you can 
see there are restaurants and cafes, and within -- off to the right, 
through the buildings -- are some cavernous galleries.

:Michael






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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 17:40:38 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:40:38 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
	sentences
In-Reply-To: <20070517002830.QSYU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <3B4B459A-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Not flying, frying!

The images are what you see.  There are many such images throughout 
Justine that are immediately recognisable, typical and iconic.  As for 
the order, it is the sort of order you give things when you sit around 
for many hours during the course of an afternoon eating whitebait and 
drinking lots of retsina.  Durrell's office was near by.

:Michael



On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:28  am, william godshalk wrote:

> Thank you, Michael, for the vivid description. I gather that you think 
> the images are from the Place Zaghloul or the general area.? Do you 
> have any ideas about the flying whitefish? Are they being tossed on 
> the open grill?
>
>
> But we can still ask the question why the narrator (or the author) 
> elected to use these precise images -- and why in this precise order.
>
> Bill
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 17:44:23 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:44:23 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
	sentences
In-Reply-To: <3B4B459A-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <C19154BD-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Oops!  I have just looked at the first edition first impression and you 
are right, it has FLYING whitebait.  This is a mistake.  And to think 
that all these years you have thought that Darley and Justine were 
catching fish off the ceiling.  No wonder he spilt the wine, no wonder 
her breasts were all over the place.

:Michael


On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:40  am, Michael Haag wrote:

> Not flying, frying!
>
> The images are what you see.  There are many such images throughout 
> Justine that are immediately recognisable, typical and iconic.  As for 
> the order, it is the sort of order you give things when you sit around 
> for many hours during the course of an afternoon eating whitebait and 
> drinking lots of retsina.  Durrell's office was near by.
>
> :Michael
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:28  am, william godshalk wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Michael, for the vivid description. I gather that you 
>> think the images are from the Place Zaghloul or the general area.? Do 
>> you have any ideas about the flying whitefish? Are they being tossed 
>> on the open grill?
>>
>>
>> But we can still ask the question why the narrator (or the author) 
>> elected to use these precise images -- and why in this precise order.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 17:47:04 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:47:04 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
	sentences
In-Reply-To: <C19154BD-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <21D0C73C-0410-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Her breasts all over the plaice -- I thought I would get that in before 
Bill does.

:Michael


On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:44  am, Michael Haag wrote:

> Oops!  I have just looked at the first edition first impression and 
> you are right, it has FLYING whitebait.  This is a mistake.  And to 
> think that all these years you have thought that Darley and Justine 
> were catching fish off the ceiling.  No wonder he spilt the wine, no 
> wonder her breasts were all over the place.
>
> :Michael
>
>
> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:40  am, Michael Haag wrote:
>
>> Not flying, frying!
>>
>> The images are what you see.  There are many such images throughout 
>> Justine that are immediately recognisable, typical and iconic.  As 
>> for the order, it is the sort of order you give things when you sit 
>> around for many hours during the course of an afternoon eating 
>> whitebait and drinking lots of retsina.  Durrell's office was near >> by.
>>
>> :Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:28  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Michael, for the vivid description. I gather that you 
>>> think the images are from the Place Zaghloul or the general area.? 
>>> Do you have any ideas about the flying whitefish? Are they being 
>>> tossed on the open grill?
>>>
>>>
>>> But we can still ask the question why the narrator (or the author) 
>>> elected to use these precise images -- and why in this precise >>> order.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Wed May 16 17:53:45 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:53:45 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and
	two	sentences
In-Reply-To: <3B4B459A-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <3B4B459A-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <464BA799.5090200@wfu.edu>

Thanks for Bill's persistence about the evocative images and Michael's 
photos.  That bit about the newspaper folded with messages from 
/Balthazar/, Bill--what was the context?  I am wondering about the 
nature of the communique--love or political intrigue?  Am I just not 
recalling that this mattered beyond the obvious?

And thanks for the "frying" vs. "flying."  That one was later corrected 
as I recall.  9Now Michael's note has popped up.  Wonderful having 
Belsize in London connected up with Cincinnati and the islands of South 
Caroline &c.)  But the slip "etiolation of the hearts and */r/*eins" 
persists in my little Faber paperback new edition (1963/1964).  Again, I 
am at the beach and away from my files and books. . . . .

Charles/Charlie/CLS

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 18:00:06 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:00:06 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
 sentences
In-Reply-To: <3B4B459A-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070517002830.QSYU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<3B4B459A-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070517005959.QXFA13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

At 08:40 PM 5/16/2007, Michael wrote:
>Not flying, frying!

But in my Giant Cardinal Edition, p. 117, the fish are flying, honest.

Bill

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 18:01:36 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:01:36 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
 sentences
In-Reply-To: <21D0C73C-0410-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <C19154BD-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<21D0C73C-0410-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070517010138.QXKV13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Wed May 16 18:10:04 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:10:04 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- frying, flying, and burning libraries
In-Reply-To: <464BA799.5090200@wfu.edu>
References: <3B4B459A-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<464BA799.5090200@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <464BAB6C.3020603@wfu.edu>

On 5/16/2007 8:53 PM, slighcl wrote:

> Again, I am at the beach and away from my files and books. . . . .


But my notes from the BL typescripts for /Justine /are here on my 
computer.  Like so many other sketches for landscape tones, 2.7 (the 
Place Zagloul) was added later by LD in red ink--in a moment's flourish, 
an afterthought.

Is my "Amr" accurate here, Michael?  He was the pyromaniac of the 
anecdote, right?  Is LD riffing off of Forster, or playing a game of  
/sortes /with maps and memories &c.?  (Now Antony and Cleo are recalled 
in small and the legendary burning has become a fish fry with a wretched 
chorus.  So much of Alexandrian time and space in a few short 
sentences!)  This old transcription has not been checked against the 
digitized typescript I now have:

>                                Place Zagloul--silverware and caged 
> doves. A vaulted cave lined with black barrels and choking with the 
> smoke from frying whitebait and the smell of /retzinnato/. A message 
> scribbled on the edge of a newspaper.  Here I spilt wine on her cloak, 
> and while attempting to help her repair the damage, accidentally 
> touched her breasts.  No word was spoken.  While Pursewarden spoke so 
> brilliantly of Amr and the burning library.  In the room above a poor 
> wretch screaming with meningitis.  [note "frying" for "flying"]
>

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 18:15:50 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:15:50 -0400
Subject: [ilds] addresses written in the corner of newspapers
In-Reply-To: <20070516233749.BFGO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.emai
	l.uc.edu>
References: <20070516233749.BFGO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <20070517011533.XSXZ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 18:22:04 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:22:04 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Kipling's flying fish
In-Reply-To: <20070517011533.XSXZ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email
	.uc.edu>
References: <20070516233749.BFGO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<20070517011533.XSXZ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <20070517012147.BTEY26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

On the road to Mandalay, Where the flying fishes play.

Perhaps Durrell was thinking of Kipling's flying fish.

Not really serious,

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From slighcl at wfu.edu  Wed May 16 18:29:17 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:29:17 -0400
Subject: [ilds] addresses written in the corner of newspapers
In-Reply-To: <20070517011533.XSXZ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
References: <20070516233749.BFGO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<20070517011533.XSXZ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <464BAFED.10008@wfu.edu>

On 5/16/2007 9:15 PM, william godshalk wrote:

> "Did I really miss so much that was going on around me -- the 
> connotation of smiles, of chance words and gestures, messages 
> scribbled with a finger in wine spilt upon a table-top, addresses 
> written in the corner of newspapers and folded over?"
>
> Darley is reworking his material using the Interlinear. 

Thanks for bringing that out for me.  I thought that I was recalling 
/something/--but what have I "missed"?  Do we ever learn what the 
intrigue in corner of newspapers was?

Messages scribbled with a finger in wine spilt upon a table-top of 
course recalls other messages left half-legible on glass. . . .

Charlie/Charles/CLS

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Wed May 16 18:37:06 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 02:37:06 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- frying, flying, and burning libraries
In-Reply-To: <464BAB6C.3020603@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <1F35D961-0417-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Amr?  Where did you get that Amr from; it is not there in any edition 
that I know of.  No, Amr did not burn the Library.  In fact the Arabs 
never burned the Library -- though oddly the story that they did was 
started by an Arab 'historian' centuries later.  Amr does not come from 
Forster, who blames Caesar, but that is wrong too.  Basically the 
Library just fell apart; no money, no care, no roof, too many mice, 
etc, and what you get is no Library.  Alexandria fell apart and with it 
the Library.  And there is no Amr in those lines of Durrell's; you have 
interpolated there, Charles.  But about the anecdote I think you are 
right, that to heat the baths the Arabs were said to have used the 
scrolls from the Library, and Amr in particular might have got the 
blame there, I do not recall offhand; but the point is that the Library 
was gone before Amr arrived and took a bath.  Oh, and by the way, it 
was the lesser Daughter Library that the Christians burnt, but by then 
I rather doubt there were many or even any books there either; maybe 
some, as Hypatia must have been reading something.

:Michael




On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 02:10  am, slighcl wrote:

> On 5/16/2007 8:53 PM, slighcl wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Again, I am at the beach and away from my files and books. . . . .
>
>
> But my notes from the BL typescripts for Justine are here on my 
> computer.? Like so many other sketches for landscape tones, 2.7 (the 
> Place Zagloul) was added later by LD in red ink--in a moment's 
> flourish, an afterthought.
>
> Is my "Amr" accurate here, Michael?? He was the pyromaniac of the 
> anecdote, right?? Is LD riffing off of Forster, or playing a game of? 
> sortes with maps and memories &c.?? (Now Antony and Cleo are recalled 
> in small and the legendary burning has become a fish fry with a 
> wretched chorus.? So much of Alexandrian time and space in a few short 
> sentences!)? This old transcription has not been checked against the 
> digitized typescript I now have:
>
> ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????????????Place Zagloul?silverware and caged doves. 
> A vaulted cave lined with black barrels and choking with the smoke 
> from frying whitebait and the smell of retzinnato. A message scribbled 
> on the edge of a newspaper.?Here I spilt wine on her cloak, and while 
> attempting to help her repair the damage, accidentally touched her 
> breasts.?No word was spoken.?While Pursewarden spoke so brilliantly of 
> Amr and the burning library.?In the room above a poor wretch screaming 
> with meningitis.?[note ?frying? for ?flying?]
>
>
> -- 
> **********************
> Charles L. Sligh
> Department of English
> Wake Forest University
> slighcl at wfu.edu
> **********************
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Wed May 16 18:59:37 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:59:37 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG corner of newspapers in Justine and Balthazar
In-Reply-To: <464BAFED.10008@wfu.edu>
References: <20070516233749.BFGO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<20070517011533.XSXZ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<464BAFED.10008@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070517015930.BYSW26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 19:15:59 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:15:59 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
 sentences
Message-ID: <21022794.1179368159552.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Great commentary on a great passage.  I'm struck by the slips, one of which is unintentional.  In phonetics /l/ and /r/ are often interchangeable.  Some languages have one but not the other (Cantonese and Japanese), some have both (English).  But confusing the two is always easy.  So at Justine 2.7 we have a slip of the tongue and a slip of the hand and a slip in history and someone slipping into insanity.  All very slippery.  I'm not putting together notes for a future lecture which cites Homi Bhabha.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>Sent: May 16, 2007 5:47 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two	sentences
>
>Her breasts all over the plaice -- I thought I would get that in before 
>Bill does.
>
>:Michael
>
>
>On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:44  am, Michael Haag wrote:
>
>> Oops!  I have just looked at the first edition first impression and 
>> you are right, it has FLYING whitebait.  This is a mistake.  And to 
>> think that all these years you have thought that Darley and Justine 
>> were catching fish off the ceiling.  No wonder he spilt the wine, no 
>> wonder her breasts were all over the place.
>>
>> :Michael
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:40  am, Michael Haag wrote:
>>
>>> Not flying, frying!
>>>
>>> The images are what you see.  There are many such images throughout 
>>> Justine that are immediately recognisable, typical and iconic.  As 
>>> for the order, it is the sort of order you give things when you sit 
>>> around for many hours during the course of an afternoon eating 
>>> whitebait and drinking lots of retsina.  Durrell's office was near >> by.
>>>
>>> :Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:28  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you, Michael, for the vivid description. I gather that you 
>>>> think the images are from the Place Zaghloul or the general area.  
>>>> Do you have any ideas about the flying whitefish? Are they being 
>>>> tossed on the open grill?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But we can still ask the question why the narrator (or the author) 
>>>> elected to use these precise images -- and why in this precise >>> order.
>>>>
>>>> Bill



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 21:03:36 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:03:36 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
 sentences
Message-ID: <26567685.1179374616903.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

An addendum to below.  Justine 2.7 ends:  "In the room above a poor wretch screaming with meningitis."  I.e., we may say the wretch is losing its sanity.  There's also something a little crazy about the mad slips or jumps in the preceding imagery, something which Durrell probably knew was connected to his own genius.  I recall the opening to Bitter Lemons, where Durrell, or some version of him, says about the beauty of Venice at dawn, "It was as if some great master, stricken by dementia, had burst his whole colour-box against the sky to deafen the inner eye of the world."  That image itself is mixed and crazy.  I'm wondering if Durrrell's life was a struggle to control his own craziness.  Notes on Creativity and Madness.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>Sent: May 16, 2007 7:15 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two sentences
>
>Great commentary on a great passage.  I'm struck by the slips, one of which is unintentional.  In phonetics /l/ and /r/ are often interchangeable.  Some languages have one but not the other (Cantonese and Japanese), some have both (English).  But confusing the two is always easy.  So at Justine 2.7 we have a slip of the tongue and a slip of the hand and a slip in history and someone slipping into insanity.  All very slippery.  I'm not putting together notes for a future lecture which cites Homi Bhabha.
>
>Bruce
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>Sent: May 16, 2007 5:47 PM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two	sentences
>>
>>Her breasts all over the plaice -- I thought I would get that in before 
>>Bill does.
>>
>>:Michael
>>
>>
>>On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:44  am, Michael Haag wrote:
>>
>>> Oops!  I have just looked at the first edition first impression and 
>>> you are right, it has FLYING whitebait.  This is a mistake.  And to 
>>> think that all these years you have thought that Darley and Justine 
>>> were catching fish off the ceiling.  No wonder he spilt the wine, no 
>>> wonder her breasts were all over the place.
>>>
>>> :Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:40  am, Michael Haag wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not flying, frying!
>>>>
>>>> The images are what you see.  There are many such images throughout 
>>>> Justine that are immediately recognisable, typical and iconic.  As 
>>>> for the order, it is the sort of order you give things when you sit 
>>>> around for many hours during the course of an afternoon eating 
>>>> whitebait and drinking lots of retsina.  Durrell's office was near >> by.
>>>>
>>>> :Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:28  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you, Michael, for the vivid description. I gather that you 
>>>>> think the images are from the Place Zaghloul or the general area.  
>>>>> Do you have any ideas about the flying whitefish? Are they being 
>>>>> tossed on the open grill?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But we can still ask the question why the narrator (or the author) 
>>>>> elected to use these precise images -- and why in this precise >>> order.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>


From durrells at otenet.gr  Wed May 16 21:28:59 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:28:59 +0300
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
References: <4619664.1179345224169.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <003701c7983b$e3fdc520$0100000a@DSC01>

There was no text - merely a pretext. RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine


>
> I would still like to read the entirety of Anthony Durrell's non-lecture 
> at DSC, 2005.  That is, the missing pieces that go between the fragments 
> we've been reading.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>>Sent: May 16, 2007 10:55 AM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
>>
>>Anthony Durrell did not give any such lecture at the Durrell School. He
>>blathered on about his own insufficiencies and did not mention his 
>>namesake
>>except to insist that the emphasis was /is on the second syllable rather
>>than the first. His insolence  was amazing.
>>RP
>>DSC
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Lawrence Durrell" <durrell at india.com>
>>To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:12 PM
>>Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Justine is Durrell: such a self-verifying metaphor refuses to allow us 
>>> to
>>> see how it is constructed, but challenges us to go behind it to discover
>>> the further metaphors which support it.  Thus we also have the
>>> simultaneous equations "Durrell is the city" and "the city is Justine".
>>> If so, only Durrell is "real" because "only the city is real".  However,
>>> the sand in the oyster is the wishful yet self-defeating statement "if
>>> Durrell were a world".
>>>
>>> -- from the lecture given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, 
>>> Corfu
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2272 (20070517) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From durrells at otenet.gr  Wed May 16 23:19:42 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:19:42 +0300
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
	sentences
References: <C19154BD-040F-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com><21D0C73C-0410-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070517010138.QXKV13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <018c01c7984b$5ba61a50$0100000a@DSC01>

As light relief, let me remind you of Gerry's introduction ('Birth of a Title') to his Fillets of Plaice:
''What are you working on now?' Larry enquired...
'I;m not working on anything at the moment, but I've got a sort of vague idea of something. As a matter of fact, I got the idea from reading Spirit of Place'.
Larry snorted derisively. Spirit of Place was a compilation of his letters to his friends, painstakingly amassed and edited by our old friend Alan Thomas. 'I'm surprised it gave you any ideas at all' said Larry.... 'I'll tell you what' he said, 'you could call it Fillets of Plaice'. And that is exactly what I have done.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: william godshalk 
  To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca 
  Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two sentences


  Yes, the spirit of plaice, as the Durrell boys used to pun.

  At 08:47 PM 5/16/2007, you wrote:

    Her breasts all over the plaice -- I thought I would get that in before Bill does. 

    :Michael 


    On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:44  am, Michael Haag wrote: 


      Oops!  I have just looked at the first edition first impression and you are right, it has FLYING whitebait.  This is a mistake.  And to think that all these years you have thought that Darley and Justine were catching fish off the ceiling.  No wonder he spilt the wine, no wonder her breasts were all over the place.  

      :Michael 


      On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:40  am, Michael Haag wrote: 


        Not flying, frying! 

        The images are what you see.  There are many such images throughout Justine that are immediately recognisable, typical and iconic.  As for the order, it is the sort of order you give things when you sit around for many hours during the course of an afternoon eating whitebait and drinking lots of retsina.  Durrell's office was near by. 

        :Michael 



        On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 01:28  am, william godshalk wrote: 


          Thank you, Michael, for the vivid description. I gather that you think the images are from the Place Zaghloul or the general area.  Do you have any ideas about the flying whitefish? Are they being tossed on the open grill? 


          But we can still ask the question why the narrator (or the author) elected to use these precise images -- and why in this precise order. 

          Bill 

          _______________________________________________ 
          ILDS mailing list 
          ILDS at lists.uvic.ca 
          https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds 
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        ILDS mailing list 
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      ILDS mailing list 
      ILDS at lists.uvic.ca 
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    <br>
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    <div>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca</div>
    <div><a href="https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds" EUDORA=AUTOURL> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds</a></div>
    </blockquote></x-html>


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  ***************************************
  W. L. Godshalk           *
  Department of English         *
  University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
  Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
  513-281-5927
  *************************************** 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From eahunger at charter.net  Thu May 17 00:02:33 2007
From: eahunger at charter.net (Edward Hungerford)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 00:02:33 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
Message-ID: <2f8835806681cad6ee74f178e373513b@charter.net>

This edition of the Reader's Marketplace interested me a great deal.  I 
have never cared much for Pursewarden, though obviously his whole being 
and raison detre are important--indeed, central-- to The Quartet.  
However, the character of the minor novelist Arnauti should also be 
investigated.  He was known to have been working on a psycho-biography 
called the House of Hosnani  at the time he disappears from literary 
history.   Still, his Moeurs shows considerable achievements as a 
novelist of psychoanalytic leaning, and his earlier novels, too, though 
obscure and difficult to obtain, being out of print for 50 or more 
years, should be resurrected sometime.   I personally always found 
Arnauti's writing percipient and rewarding, if rather unbalanced.   
Anyone as totally immersed in the culture of Alexandria, as Arnauti 
was, and once married to Justine, would have known Melissa also, and 
perhaps in his earlier fiction we might obtain some glimpses of her 
youth and upbringing, if indeed she actually lived in Alexandria at 
that period.   Has anyone recently seen these early works of Arnauti in 
a used book store?  ---  Ed
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From bernardmckenna at ireland.com  Thu May 17 01:11:16 2007
From: bernardmckenna at ireland.com (Bernard McKenna)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 04:11:16 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Remove from mailing list
Message-ID: <20070517081116.E2FE730E96C@ws4-8.us4.outblaze.com>




From durrell at telstra.com  Thu May 17 01:52:20 2007
From: durrell at telstra.com (durrell at telstra.com)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 18:52:20 +1000
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
In-Reply-To: <11870460.1179355802192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <11870460.1179355802192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <464C17C4.7030504@telstra.com>

Bruce Redwine wrote:
> Lea asks a fair question, but the answer is beyond me.  Will the real Anthony Durrell please stand up and speak for himself?
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: Lea Stogdale <leadale at mts.net>
>> Sent: May 16, 2007 9:00 AM
>> To: "'ilds at lists.uvic.ca'" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>
>> Oh, to admit one's ignorance; how liberating.
>> Could someone please translate this into common parlance, preferably in 
>> English, and then explain what it means and it's relevance to Justine.
>> Thanks,
>> Lea
>>
>>     
>>> Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>>
>>> The commonplace availability of the relativity theory and the principle of 
>>>       
>>> indeterminacy suggests that for every act of Shambalism there is a 
>>>       
>> converse act of
>>     
>>> invisibilism, that we accommodate a 'darkness' at least equivalent to that 
>>>       
>> which we
>>     
>>> have projected onto Asia and other unseen continents. Lhasa as 'a joint' 
>>>       
>> is a metaphor
>>     
>>> for this condition, for this 'dark night of the soul' which seems the best 
>>>       
>> description
>>     
>>> for the crisis in the humanities which is now a crisis for humanity. It is 
>>>       
>> a purely
>>     
>>> subjective matter, a matter of personal faith, whether or not we can come 
>>>       
>> out the
>>     
>>> other side sufficiently intact after the inevitable sacrifice that this 
>>>       
>> will involve,
>>     
>>> sufficiently able to function as people capable of relations. At the mo  
>>>       
>> ment, we are in
>>     
>>> that 'gap' or state of liminality in the words of Homi Bhabha, and which 
>>>       
>> Durrell
>>     
>>> recognised in himself and incorporated in so many of his characters, 
>>>       
>> before he took
>>     
>>> himself off to the Lake Isle of Shangri-la.
>>>
>>> -- from a lecture by Anthony Durrell, psychiatrist and literary theorist, 
>>>       
>> at the
>>     
>>> Durrell School, Corfu
>>>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>   
I am concerned that my past contributions to the DSC have been corrupted 
through a number of channels not the least which includes the narrow and 
infantile perspective offered by the pseudo-durrellian RP ...........the 
link between creativity and madness is an area of interest which LD and 
I share........I will happily comment on issues concerning LD and his 
metaphysical inclinations......anthony durrell

From slighcl at wfu.edu  Thu May 17 05:17:39 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:17:39 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- predatory primates
In-Reply-To: <CCD3C91A-040E-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <CCD3C91A-040E-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <464C47E3.1010502@wfu.edu>



        To everyone we turn a different face of the prism[. . . .]  As
        for example when Justine said of Pombal, 'one of the great
        primates of sex.' To me my friend had never seen predatory; only
        self-indulgent to a ludicrous degree.  I saw him as touching and
        amusing, faintly to be cherished for an inherent
        ridiculousness.  But she must have seen in him the great
        sure-footed cat he was (to her).


Can anyone parse and make sense of this business of "primates" and 
feline "predators"?  The passage is no clearer to me after two decades.

To me--even before seeing the BL photos of Larry and Gerry teaching the 
chimp to do the questionable things that we humans do--"primates" equal 
"touching," "amusing," and inherently "ridiculous," in the sense that we 
see an awful lot of our own touching amd ridiculous qualities in that 
species.  But Darley thinks Justine sees Pombal also as "predatory" and 
a "cat."  This goes beyond mere prismatic character.  Rather, it seems 
to me that something is wrong with the prism.  But perhaps I am dense.  
How has everyone else understood it?   Show me how ridiculous I am for 
not getting it.

CLS

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From durrells at otenet.gr  Thu May 17 05:29:16 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:29:16 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
References: <11870460.1179355802192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<464C17C4.7030504@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <01d901c7987e$fbf92960$0100000a@DSC01>

Anthony Durrell insulted not only me but all of his audience, when he spoke 
her, strutting about in different coloured shoes, displaying his (read your 
Adler) inferiority complex to the nth degree. A pretentious idler and 
intellectual liteweight. Take no interest other than the most prurient in 
anything he has to say.
RP
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <durrell at telstra.com>
To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell


> Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> Lea asks a fair question, but the answer is beyond me.  Will the real 
>> Anthony Durrell please stand up and speak for himself?
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Lea Stogdale <leadale at mts.net>
>>> Sent: May 16, 2007 9:00 AM
>>> To: "'ilds at lists.uvic.ca'" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>>
>>> Oh, to admit one's ignorance; how liberating.
>>> Could someone please translate this into common parlance, preferably in
>>> English, and then explain what it means and it's relevance to Justine.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lea
>>>
>>>
>>>> Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>>>
>>>> The commonplace availability of the relativity theory and the principle 
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>> indeterminacy suggests that for every act of Shambalism there is a
>>>>
>>> converse act of
>>>
>>>> invisibilism, that we accommodate a 'darkness' at least equivalent to 
>>>> that
>>>>
>>> which we
>>>
>>>> have projected onto Asia and other unseen continents. Lhasa as 'a 
>>>> joint'
>>>>
>>> is a metaphor
>>>
>>>> for this condition, for this 'dark night of the soul' which seems the 
>>>> best
>>>>
>>> description
>>>
>>>> for the crisis in the humanities which is now a crisis for humanity. It 
>>>> is
>>>>
>>> a purely
>>>
>>>> subjective matter, a matter of personal faith, whether or not we can 
>>>> come
>>>>
>>> out the
>>>
>>>> other side sufficiently intact after the inevitable sacrifice that this
>>>>
>>> will involve,
>>>
>>>> sufficiently able to function as people capable of relations. At the mo
>>>>
>>> ment, we are in
>>>
>>>> that 'gap' or state of liminality in the words of Homi Bhabha, and 
>>>> which
>>>>
>>> Durrell
>>>
>>>> recognised in himself and incorporated in so many of his characters,
>>>>
>>> before he took
>>>
>>>> himself off to the Lake Isle of Shangri-la.
>>>>
>>>> -- from a lecture by Anthony Durrell, psychiatrist and literary 
>>>> theorist,
>>>>
>>> at the
>>>
>>>> Durrell School, Corfu
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
> I am concerned that my past contributions to the DSC have been corrupted
> through a number of channels not the least which includes the narrow and
> infantile perspective offered by the pseudo-durrellian RP ...........the
> link between creativity and madness is an area of interest which LD and
> I share........I will happily comment on issues concerning LD and his
> metaphysical inclinations......anthony durrell
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2273 (20070517) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Thu May 17 05:36:05 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:36:05 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
In-Reply-To: <2f8835806681cad6ee74f178e373513b@charter.net>
Message-ID: <2E4A989A-0473-11DC-8723-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

All honour to Edward Hungerford for this unrecognised truth about 
Arnauti.  Pursewarden is a bore.  Whereas Arnauti is an attractive and 
interesting person who can clearly write.  He is the great missing 
figure of The Quartet, its initiator, who in every way introduced 
Darley and indeed introduces the reader to the flora of Alexandria and 
the essential nature of the Alexandrian phenomenon (not to mention 
being the one who got in there almost first with Justine!).  And does 
so with evident sympathy and considerable insight.  The more one thinks 
about it -- and how could one have overlooked this? -- it is not 
dullards like Pursewarden nor affectations like 'the old poet of the 
city' but Arnauti whose spirit inhabits Alexandria.  It is Arnauti who 
has really loved, who has really thought about love, who really knows 
his city, and who offers a way for Darley to follow and to emulate.  
Next time I am in the Attarine I will rummage for his books.

:Michael


On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 08:02  am, Edward Hungerford wrote:

> This edition of the Reader's Marketplace interested me a great deal.  
> I have never cared much for Pursewarden, though obviously his whole 
> being and raison detre are important--indeed, central-- to The 
> Quartet.  However, the character of the minor novelist Arnauti should 
> also be investigated.  He was known to have been working on a 
> psycho-biography called the House of Hosnani  at the time he 
> disappears from literary history.   Still, his Moeurs shows 
> considerable achievements as a novelist of psychoanalytic leaning, and 
> his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to obtain, being 
> out of print for 50 or more years, should be resurrected sometime.   I 
> personally always found Arnauti's writing percipient and rewarding, if 
> rather unbalanced.   Anyone as totally immersed in the culture of 
> Alexandria, as Arnauti was, and once married to Justine, would have 
> known Melissa also, and perhaps in his earlier fiction we might obtain 
> some glimpses of her youth and upbringing, if indeed she actually 
> lived in Alexandria at that period.   Has anyone recently seen these 
> early works of Arnauti in a used book store?  ---  
> Ed_______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Thu May 17 06:17:47 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:17:47 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
In-Reply-To: <01d901c7987e$fbf92960$0100000a@DSC01>
Message-ID: <014F71AE-0479-11DC-8723-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

We now know something about Anthony Durrell's taste in shoes and the 
offensive way in which he pronounces his own name.  We also know from 
his website that he is a qualified practicing psychiatrist.  It would 
be interesting to hear more from Anthony Durrell himself about his 
seminal lecture on Corfu.

:Michael


> Anthony Durrell insulted not only me but all of his audience, when he 
> spoke
> her, strutting about in different coloured shoes, displaying his (read 
> your
> Adler) inferiority complex to the nth degree. A pretentious idler and
> intellectual liteweight. Take no interest other than the most prurient 
> in
> anything he has to say.
> RP



>> I am concerned that my past contributions to the DSC have been 
>> corrupted
>> through a number of channels not the least which includes the narrow 
>> and
>> infantile perspective offered by the pseudo-durrellian RP 
>> ...........the
>> link between creativity and madness is an area of interest which LD 
>> and
>> I share........I will happily comment on issues concerning LD and his
>> metaphysical inclinations......anthony durrell
>>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 06:48:11 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 06:48:11 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- predatory primates
Message-ID: <25005132.1179409692083.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Here I opt for Occam's Razor.  The problem, if such, is Durrell's -- he's crazy about metaphors and has no problem mixing them.  Come to think of it, this may have something to do with LD's crazy genius, which I mentioned in a previous email.  What's this about "BL photos of Larry and Gerry?"  Some bit of pornography which is being surreptitiously passed around the Society?  Please share all incriminating evidence.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
>Sent: May 17, 2007 5:17 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- predatory primates
>
>
>
>        To everyone we turn a different face of the prism[. . . .]  As
>        for example when Justine said of Pombal, 'one of the great
>        primates of sex.' To me my friend had never seen predatory; only
>        self-indulgent to a ludicrous degree.  I saw him as touching and
>        amusing, faintly to be cherished for an inherent
>        ridiculousness.  But she must have seen in him the great
>        sure-footed cat he was (to her).
>
>
>Can anyone parse and make sense of this business of "primates" and 
>feline "predators"?  The passage is no clearer to me after two decades.
>
>To me--even before seeing the BL photos of Larry and Gerry teaching the 
>chimp to do the questionable things that we humans do--"primates" equal 
>"touching," "amusing," and inherently "ridiculous," in the sense that we 
>see an awful lot of our own touching amd ridiculous qualities in that 
>species.  But Darley thinks Justine sees Pombal also as "predatory" and 
>a "cat."  This goes beyond mere prismatic character.  Rather, it seems 
>to me that something is wrong with the prism.  But perhaps I am dense.  
>How has everyone else understood it?   Show me how ridiculous I am for 
>not getting it.
>
>CLS
>



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 07:30:33 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:30:33 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
Message-ID: <4257726.1179412233777.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

"Dullards like Pursewarden."  Mon Dieu, how can you say this about my hero, the most interesting person in the entire Quartet and quite possibly Durrell's entire oeuvre!  The great author's greatest creation, the great ironist, himself the author of God Is a Humourist (that title in itself will endure for all time).  Haag has it in for Pursey just became he didn't like Alex and preferred incest.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>Sent: May 17, 2007 5:36 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>
>All honour to Edward Hungerford for this unrecognised truth about 
>Arnauti.  Pursewarden is a bore.  Whereas Arnauti is an attractive and 
>interesting person who can clearly write.  He is the great missing 
>figure of The Quartet, its initiator, who in every way introduced 
>Darley and indeed introduces the reader to the flora of Alexandria and 
>the essential nature of the Alexandrian phenomenon (not to mention 
>being the one who got in there almost first with Justine!).  And does 
>so with evident sympathy and considerable insight.  The more one thinks 
>about it -- and how could one have overlooked this? -- it is not 
>dullards like Pursewarden nor affectations like 'the old poet of the 
>city' but Arnauti whose spirit inhabits Alexandria.  It is Arnauti who 
>has really loved, who has really thought about love, who really knows 
>his city, and who offers a way for Darley to follow and to emulate.  
>Next time I am in the Attarine I will rummage for his books.
>
>:Michael
>
>
>On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 08:02  am, Edward Hungerford wrote:
>
>> This edition of the Reader's Marketplace interested me a great deal.  
>> I have never cared much for Pursewarden, though obviously his whole 
>> being and raison detre are important--indeed, central-- to The 
>> Quartet.  However, the character of the minor novelist Arnauti should 
>> also be investigated.  He was known to have been working on a 
>> psycho-biography called the House of Hosnani  at the time he 
>> disappears from literary history.   Still, his Moeurs shows 
>> considerable achievements as a novelist of psychoanalytic leaning, and 
>> his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to obtain, being 
>> out of print for 50 or more years, should be resurrected sometime.   I 
>> personally always found Arnauti's writing percipient and rewarding, if 
>> rather unbalanced.   Anyone as totally immersed in the culture of 
>> Alexandria, as Arnauti was, and once married to Justine, would have 
>> known Melissa also, and perhaps in his earlier fiction we might obtain 
>> some glimpses of her youth and upbringing, if indeed she actually 
>> lived in Alexandria at that period.   Has anyone recently seen these 
>> early works of Arnauti in a used book store?  ---  
>> Ed_______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From durrells at otenet.gr  Thu May 17 06:59:58 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:59:58 +0300
Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
References: <014F71AE-0479-11DC-8723-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <024501c7988b$a7c4ff10$0100000a@DSC01>

The only semen in his lecture was... malaka
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell


> We now know something about Anthony Durrell's taste in shoes and the 
> offensive way in which he pronounces his own name.  We also know from 
> his website that he is a qualified practicing psychiatrist.  It would 
> be interesting to hear more from Anthony Durrell himself about his 
> seminal lecture on Corfu.
> 
> :Michael
> 
> 
>> Anthony Durrell insulted not only me but all of his audience, when he 
>> spoke
>> her, strutting about in different coloured shoes, displaying his (read 
>> your
>> Adler) inferiority complex to the nth degree. A pretentious idler and
>> intellectual liteweight. Take no interest other than the most prurient 
>> in
>> anything he has to say.
>> RP
> 
> 
> 
>>> I am concerned that my past contributions to the DSC have been 
>>> corrupted
>>> through a number of channels not the least which includes the narrow 
>>> and
>>> infantile perspective offered by the pseudo-durrellian RP 
>>> ...........the
>>> link between creativity and madness is an area of interest which LD 
>>> and
>>> I share........I will happily comment on issues concerning LD and his
>>> metaphysical inclinations......anthony durrell
>>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 
> __________ NOD32 2273 (20070517) Information __________
> 
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
> 
>

From ilyas.khan at crosby.com  Thu May 17 07:35:54 2007
From: ilyas.khan at crosby.com (Ilyas Khan)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:35:54 +0800
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
In-Reply-To: <4257726.1179412233777.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C272894A.1B06A%ilyas.khan@crosby.com>

Bruce, I am with you all the way. You are not alone. I think it was Vidal
(or Miller ??) who described Pursewarden as being a "totally tenebrous
character". Inspired by this delicious description (I needed a dictionary to
figure it out !), I re-read with greater interest.




On 5/17/07 10:30 PM, "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:

> "Dullards like Pursewarden."  Mon Dieu, how can you say this about my hero,
> the most interesting person in the entire Quartet and quite possibly Durrell's
> entire oeuvre!  The great author's greatest creation, the great ironist,
> himself the author of God Is a Humourist (that title in itself will endure for
> all time).  Haag has it in for Pursey just became he didn't like Alex and
> preferred incest.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>> Sent: May 17, 2007 5:36 AM
>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>> 
>> All honour to Edward Hungerford for this unrecognised truth about
>> Arnauti.  Pursewarden is a bore.  Whereas Arnauti is an attractive and
>> interesting person who can clearly write.  He is the great missing
>> figure of The Quartet, its initiator, who in every way introduced
>> Darley and indeed introduces the reader to the flora of Alexandria and
>> the essential nature of the Alexandrian phenomenon (not to mention
>> being the one who got in there almost first with Justine!).  And does
>> so with evident sympathy and considerable insight.  The more one thinks
>> about it -- and how could one have overlooked this? -- it is not
>> dullards like Pursewarden nor affectations like 'the old poet of the
>> city' but Arnauti whose spirit inhabits Alexandria.  It is Arnauti who
>> has really loved, who has really thought about love, who really knows
>> his city, and who offers a way for Darley to follow and to emulate.
>> Next time I am in the Attarine I will rummage for his books.
>> 
>> :Michael
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 08:02  am, Edward Hungerford wrote:
>> 
>>> This edition of the Reader's Marketplace interested me a great deal.
>>> I have never cared much for Pursewarden, though obviously his whole
>>> being and raison detre are important--indeed, central-- to The
>>> Quartet.  However, the character of the minor novelist Arnauti should
>>> also be investigated.  He was known to have been working on a
>>> psycho-biography called the House of Hosnani  at the time he
>>> disappears from literary history.   Still, his Moeurs shows
>>> considerable achievements as a novelist of psychoanalytic leaning, and
>>> his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to obtain, being
>>> out of print for 50 or more years, should be resurrected sometime.   I
>>> personally always found Arnauti's writing percipient and rewarding, if
>>> rather unbalanced.   Anyone as totally immersed in the culture of
>>> Alexandria, as Arnauti was, and once married to Justine, would have
>>> known Melissa also, and perhaps in his earlier fiction we might obtain
>>> some glimpses of her youth and upbringing, if indeed she actually
>>> lived in Alexandria at that period.   Has anyone recently seen these
>>> early works of Arnauti in a used book store?  ---
>>> Ed_______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds



From anthonydurrell at ausi.com  Thu May 17 08:27:12 2007
From: anthonydurrell at ausi.com (Anthony Durrell)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:27:12 -0700
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
Message-ID: <20070517082712.924438E@resin13.mta.everyone.net>

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From richardpin at eircom.net  Thu May 17 09:39:46 2007
From: richardpin at eircom.net (richardpin at eircom.net)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:39:46 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
Message-ID: <200705171639.l4HGduoJ1839288@cascara.comp.uvic.ca>

This is pure (or impure) dishonesty - Anthony Durrell did not say any of this during his spurious talk (!) at the DSC in 2005 - either the writer of these messages is not Anthony Durrell, or Anthony Durrell is a deranged somethingpath who should be put in a mental straitjacket and fed dogfood. He said nothing of the kind, I repeat his 'presentation' was inept, puerile and well below the intellectual level of even the dimmest member of the audience. And what he says in this message (about the 'long metaphor' - a term coined by me for the descriptions of Alexandria) is lifted straight out of my book, which as a matter of courtesy I was stupid enough to give him a copy of and which he, as a matter of discourtesy, stupidity and insolence has attempted to arrogate to himself. If his contribution to our seminar had been of the slightest interest, it owuld hav e(perhaps) merited inclusion in the resulting p[roceedings which have just been published. But it wasnt. It was rubbish. I wish his ancestors had been hanged instead of deported to Australia. There must be a family connectio n to the LD/GD family, but he has disgraced it by his behaviour.

anthonydurrell at ausi.com, ilds at lists.uvic.ca wrote:

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<  ILDS mailing list
<  ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
<  https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
<  
<  --===============0399178262==--
<  



-----------------------------------------------------------------
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Thu May 17 10:22:39 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:22:39 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.6 -- primates
In-Reply-To: <464C47E3.1010502@wfu.edu>
References: <CCD3C91A-040E-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<464C47E3.1010502@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070517172221.GHHK26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 10:27:45 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:27:45 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
Message-ID: <2336210.1179422865299.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Good to hear, Ilyas.  Now there are two of us, besides Gore Vidal, in whose company it is always an honor to be mentioned.  I like to think Ludwig Pursewarden represents the "dark side" of his author, so Virgilian "tenebrous" is highly apt.  Darley (aka Arnauti?) and his light side have their appeal, but Ludwig's darkness, as seen in the Quintet, seems to have won out.  Arnauti or Pursewarden?  Which does one prefer?  Or are they doubles, doppelganger?  Doubles, you know, are all over the place, and not only in literature.

Bruce 

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>
>Sent: May 17, 2007 7:35 AM
>To: "Bruce Redwine , ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>
>Bruce, I am with you all the way. You are not alone. I think it was Vidal
>(or Miller ??) who described Pursewarden as being a "totally tenebrous
>character". Inspired by this delicious description (I needed a dictionary to
>figure it out !), I re-read with greater interest.
>
>
>
>
>On 5/17/07 10:30 PM, "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> "Dullards like Pursewarden."  Mon Dieu, how can you say this about my hero,
>> the most interesting person in the entire Quartet and quite possibly Durrell's
>> entire oeuvre!  The great author's greatest creation, the great ironist,
>> himself the author of God Is a Humourist (that title in itself will endure for
>> all time).  Haag has it in for Pursey just became he didn't like Alex and
>> preferred incest.
>> 
>> Bruce



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 11:29:21 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:29:21 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
Message-ID: <25343889.1179426561428.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

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From eahunger at charter.net  Thu May 17 11:47:42 2007
From: eahunger at charter.net (Edward Hungerford)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:47:42 -0700
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook, etc. ILDS Digest, Vol 2,
	Issue 64
In-Reply-To: <mailman.706.1179361761.888862.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
References: <mailman.706.1179361761.888862.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
Message-ID: <e7e26f0dc200d5dd0e91450a2b32b81a@charter.net>

I have been following the various digests, and find them rewarding,  
especially some recent ones.   I thought I would share some  
speculations that have occurred to me about lost notebooks, as well as  
other narrators within the text of Justine.

This edition of the ILDS digest interested me a great deal.  I have  
never cared much for Pursewarden's ideas, though obviously his  
character and his raison d'etre are important--indeed, central-- to The  
Quartet.  (By the way,  I prefer the versions of Justine that make  
Pursew. short and stubby and very blond.)    However, the character of  
the minor novelist Arnauti should also be investigated.  He was known  
to have been working on a psycho-biography called the House of Hosnani   
at the time he disappears from literary history.   Still, his Moeurs  
shows considerable achievements as a novelist of psychoanalytic  
leaning, and his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to  
obtain, being out of print for 50 or more years, should be resurrected  
sometime.   I personally always found Arnauti's writing percipient and  
rewarding, if rather unbalanced.   Anyone as totally immersed in the  
culture of Alexandria, as Arnauti was, and once married to Justine,  
would have known Melissa also, and perhaps in his earlier fiction we  
might obtain some glimpses of her youth and upbringing, if indeed she  
actually lived in Alexandria at that period.   Has anyone recently seen  
these early works of Arnauti in a used book store?  ---
         On a completely different subject, those persons who concern   
themselves with the technical terminology of reading fiction (namely,  
critics) may be interested in a recent article in the London Review of  
Books, 10 May 2007, p. 15-24,   "Fiction and E. M. Forster,"  by Frank  
Kermode.  Most of us have probably taught from some anthology compiled  
by Kermode, who can be stuffy and dogmatic about poetry, but this  
present article on Forster appealed to me for its discussion of  
"narratology," in a far from dogmatic way.    ---  Ed Hungerford

On May 16, 2007, at 5:29 PM, ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca wrote:

> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: transvestites (Durrell School of Corfu)
>    2. Re: Anthony Durrell (Durrell School of Corfu)
>    3. Re: Anthony Durrell (Durrell School of Corfu)
>    4. Re: ILDS RG Justine (Durrell School of Corfu)
>    5. Julian's Flight (william godshalk)
>    6. Re: transvestites (Bruce Redwine)
>    7. Re: transvestites (Michael Haag)
>    8. Re: transvestites (slighcl)
>    9. Re: transvestites (william godshalk)
>   10. Re: transvestites (Michael Haag)
>   11. Julian's sexy flight (william godshalk)
>   12. Re: ILDS RG Justine (Bruce Redwine)
>   13. RG Justine 2.7 -- newspaper's edge (slighcl)
>   14. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>       (william godshalk)
>   15. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>       (James Gifford)
>   16. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>       (slighcl)
>   17. Re: Anthony Durrell (Bruce Redwine)
>   18. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>       (william godshalk)
>   19. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
>       sentences (william godshalk)
>   20. addresses written in the corner of newspapers (william godshalk)
>   21. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
>       sentences (Michael Haag)
>   22. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
>       sentences (william godshalk)
>   23. RG Justine 2.7 (Michael Haag)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:44:05 +0300
> From: "Durrell School of Corfu" <durrells at otenet.gr>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <009c01c797e1$ccbf3fb0$0100000a at DSC01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the extraordinary
> inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
> RP
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
> To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>
>
>> I am intrigued by this book mentioned by Grove Koger, though I have
>> found little else about it, only really this:
>>
>> 'The Flight Into Egypt by Philippe Julian. It concerns a Grand Duchess
>> and her motley transvestite crew who supply pleasures to millionaires
>> gathering in the desert of Egypt.'
>>
>> Published in 1970, apparently.
>>
>> :Michael
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 03:16  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until
>>> I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>>>> Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>>
>>>> Bruce and Bill,
>>>>
>>>> I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as
>>>> described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from
>>>> the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been  
>>>> glimpsed
>>>> notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."
>>>> And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had been
>>>> abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and
>>>> remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final
>>>> apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>>>>
>>>> Grove Koger
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
>>>>> Subject: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, absolutely. They live in the world of Shambala -- much like
>>>>> Tennyson's lake isle of Avillion. That's what literary characters  
>>>>> do.
>>>>> Often you find Falstaff standing next to you in a bar.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 08:05 PM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill, many thanks.  You definitely have something here, and I'm  
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> now beginning to make the connections.  It all fits.  Durrell  
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> die in 1990.  It was all a ruse.  He made his way to some hidden
>>>>>> valley in the Kunlun Mountains -- what's its name -- where he's  
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> the head Lama in residence.  Justine is there with him, so too  
>>>>>> Clea
>>>>>> and Melissa.  They all are, and they never grow old.  But this
>>>>>> sounds rather familiar.  Didn't James Hilton describe something  
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> this before?  LD plagiarized his own life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ILDS mailing list
>>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:50:29 +0300
> From: "Durrell School of Corfu" <durrells at otenet.gr>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <00b501c797e2$b129d3e0$0100000a at DSC01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> This is a characteristic response to my e-mail suggesting that the  
> anonymous
> e-mail from 'durrell at bigpond' might be the appalling Anthony Durrell.  
> I hope
> we never hear from his again, as his opinion on any subject on which I  
> have
> heard him speak is absolutely worthless.
> RP
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Durrell" <durrell at india.com>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 5:48 PM
> Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>
>
>> I would like to suggest that Lawrence Durrell is an extremely suspect  
>> and
>> annoying pseudo-psychiatrist and literary theorist who in an insane  
>> fit of
>> enthusiasm which lasted most of his life wrote numerous novels in a  
>> manner
>> so clever that we can claim that by reading them we have authored them
>> ourselves. Lawrence Durrell was not only entirely unsuitable but his  
>> novels
>> were an insult to all concerned. I have read him and I speak about him
>> today simply because (a) his name was Durrell and (b) he showed some
>> interest in the subject of 'Madness and Creativity. But his  
>> contributions
>> have been worthless and a huge embarrassment.  I regret that his  
>> books are
>> still allowed on the shelves of reputable institutions.
>>
>> -- extract from a talk given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell  
>> School,  
>> Corfu
>>
>> =
>> Non Surgical Facelift: Flexeffect
>> Research shows increase in skin elasticity through Facialbuilding  
>> Facial
>> trainers, compare techniques.
>> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? 
>> redirectid=8f7c166303473c6e09b2172b68c892a2
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Search for products and services at:
>> http://search.mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:53:56 +0300
> From: "Durrell School of Corfu" <durrells at otenet.gr>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
> To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <00bc01c797e3$2ce3b780$0100000a at DSC01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> We have published the proceedings of the seminar, as already advised  
> to the
> ILDS group by an earlier e-mail. To repeat, 'Creativity, Madness and
> Civilisation', 2007, Cambridge Scholars Publishing (ed. Richard Pine).  
> It
> does NOT contain anything by the worthless pseudo-psychiatrist Anthony
> Durrell because his contribution to our seminar was utterly pointless,
> unprofessional and insulting.
> Richard Pine
> Durrell School of Corfu
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>
>
>> Better and better.  Is there more to come?  Please, don't tease --  
>> release
>> the full text.  Perhaps this essay will get wider circulation after  
>> the
>> conference proceedings of "Madness and Creativity" (DSC, 2005) are
>> published.  Is this in the offing?  I hope so.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lawrence Durrell <durrell at india.com>
>>> Sent: May 16, 2007 7:48 AM
>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>> Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>>
>>> I would like to suggest that Lawrence Durrell is an extremely  
>>> suspect and
>>> annoying pseudo-psychiatrist and literary theorist who in an insane  
>>> fit of
>>> enthusiasm which lasted most of his life wrote numerous novels in a  
>>> manner
>>> so clever that we can claim that by reading them we have authored  
>>> them
>>> ourselves. Lawrence Durrell was not only entirely unsuitable but his
>>> novels were an insult to all concerned. I have read him and I speak  
>>> about
>>> him today simply because (a) his name was Durrell and (b) he showed  
>>> some
>>> interest in the subject of 'Madness and Creativity. But his  
>>> contributions
>>> have been worthless and a huge embarrassment.  I regret that his  
>>> books are
>>> still allowed on the shelves of reputable institutions.
>>>
>>> -- extract from a talk given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell  
>>> School, 
>>> Corfu
>>>
>>> =
>>> Non Surgical Facelift: Flexeffect
>>> Research shows increase in skin elasticity through Facialbuilding  
>>> Facial
>>> trainers, compare techniques.
>>> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? 
>>> redirectid=8f7c166303473c6e09b2172b68c892a2
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Search for products and services at:
>>> http://search.mail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:55:55 +0300
> From: "Durrell School of Corfu" <durrells at otenet.gr>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Message-ID: <00c301c797e3$73ccf210$0100000a at DSC01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Anthony Durrell did not give any such lecture at the Durrell School. He
> blathered on about his own insufficiencies and did not mention his  
> namesake
> except to insist that the emphasis was /is on the second syllable  
> rather
> than the first. His insolence  was amazing.
> RP
> DSC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Durrell" <durrell at india.com>
> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:12 PM
> Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
>
>
>>
>> Justine is Durrell: such a self-verifying metaphor refuses to allow  
>> us to
>> see how it is constructed, but challenges us to go behind it to  
>> discover
>> the further metaphors which support it.  Thus we also have the
>> simultaneous equations "Durrell is the city" and "the city is  
>> Justine".
>> If so, only Durrell is "real" because "only the city is real".   
>> However,
>> the sand in the oyster is the wishful yet self-defeating statement "if
>> Durrell were a world".
>>
>> -- from the lecture given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School,  
>> Corfu
>>
>> =
>> 100% Extra Virgin Coconut Oil
>> Superb for Hair & Body Skins, massage and spa.
>> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? 
>> redirectid=c6a22853f3986b77b0ba909c30a49197
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Search for products and services at:
>> http://search.mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:12:45 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: [ilds] Julian's Flight
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<20070516191218.OUAJ13769.gx4.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  
> http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070516/49785c2b/ 
> attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:13:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<1982978.1179342784039.JavaMail.root at elwamui- 
> rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I will bear that it mind, but also bear in mind that Jullian's Flight  
> into Egypt is fiction, and fiction sets its own boundaries.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>> Sent: May 16, 2007 10:44 AM
>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>>
>> I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the  
>> extraordinary
>> inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
>> RP
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>> To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>; <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>>
>>
>>> I am intrigued by this book mentioned by Grove Koger, though I have
>>> found little else about it, only really this:
>>>
>>> 'The Flight Into Egypt by Philippe Julian. It concerns a Grand  
>>> Duchess
>>> and her motley transvestite crew who supply pleasures to millionaires
>>> gathering in the desert of Egypt.'
>>>
>>> Published in 1970, apparently.
>>>
>>> :Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 03:16  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until
>>>> I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>>>>> Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>>>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce and Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as
>>>>> described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting from
>>>>> the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been  
>>>>> glimpsed
>>>>> notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."
>>>>> And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had  
>>>>> been
>>>>> abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici, and
>>>>> remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final
>>>>> apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Grove Koger
>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:17:49 +0100
> From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
> To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <22B31448-03E2-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Anyway, are we not supposed to be distrusting everything written by
> Durrell?
>
> :Michael
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 08:13  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
>> I will bear that it mind, but also bear in mind that Jullian's Flight
>> into Egypt is fiction, and fiction sets its own boundaries.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>>> Sent: May 16, 2007 10:44 AM
>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>>>
>>> I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the
>>> extraordinary
>>> inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
>>> RP
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Michael Haag" <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>> To: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>;  
>>> <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am intrigued by this book mentioned by Grove Koger, though I have
>>>> found little else about it, only really this:
>>>>
>>>> 'The Flight Into Egypt by Philippe Julian. It concerns a Grand
>>>> Duchess
>>>> and her motley transvestite crew who supply pleasures to  
>>>> millionaires
>>>> gathering in the desert of Egypt.'
>>>>
>>>> Published in 1970, apparently.
>>>>
>>>> :Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 03:16  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Grove, many thanks for the reference, but I reserve judgment until
>>>>> I've read Jullian's book, which I'm looking up on Amazon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: gkoger at mindspring.com
>>>>>> Sent: May 15, 2007 7:34 PM
>>>>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ilds] the lake isle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce and Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think a more likely spot is the Castle of Ici on the Red Sea as
>>>>>> described by Philippe Jullian in /Flight into Egypt/.  Quoting  
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the jacket:  "Behind masks, at lavish ceremonials, have been
>>>>>> glimpsed
>>>>>> notorious faces -- T.E. Lawrence, Baron Corvo, Maurice Sachs."
>>>>>> And:  "Years earlier, the narrator, a vigorous Noric blond, had
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> abducted to serve as a stud to replenish the population of Ici,  
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> remained a prisoner in this sexual Shangri-la until its final
>>>>>> apocalypse."  And there's your Hilton reference . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Grove Koger
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:17:12 -0400
> From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
> To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <464B58B8.80403 at wfu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On 5/16/2007 1:44 PM, Durrell School of Corfu wrote:
>
>> I would distrust anything written by P Jullian, given the  
>> extraordinary
>> inaccuracies in his biography of Oscar Wilde.
>>
> On 5/16/2007 3:13 PM, Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
>> I will bear that it mind, but also bear in mind that Jullian's Flight  
>> into Egypt is fiction, and fiction sets its own boundaries.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
> I think that it is precisely "the extraordinary inaccuracies" that  
> would
> give /Flight Into Egypt--A Fantasy/ its chief interest for us.  One  
> does
> not "trust" /fantasies /in quite the way that one would (perhaps) want
> to "trust" biographies.
>
> Charlie
>
> -- 
> **********************
> Charles L. Sligh
> Department of English
> Wake Forest University
> slighcl at wfu.edu
> **********************
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:31:47 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<20070516193140.OYIS13769.gx4.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:37:28 +0100
> From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] transvestites
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <E18F4B9A-03E4-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I am only repeating what various eminences have said in these
> discussions.  I used to believe everything.  Now I believe that
> everyone is mad.
>
> :Michael
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 08:31  pm, william godshalk wrote:
>
>> Anyway, are we not supposed to be distrusting everything written by
>> Durrell?
>> asks Michael.
>>
>>
>> But "distrust" in what why? Obviously -- can I say obviously? -- a
>> narrator always has a point of view that slightly distorts his
>> narrative. Do you that kind of "distrust?"
>>
>> Bill?_______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:39:20 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: [ilds] Julian's sexy flight
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:53:43 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<4619664.1179345224169.JavaMail.root at elwamui- 
> rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> I would still like to read the entirety of Anthony Durrell's  
> non-lecture at DSC, 2005.  That is, the missing pieces that go between  
> the fragments we've been reading.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Durrell School of Corfu <durrells at otenet.gr>
>> Sent: May 16, 2007 10:55 AM
>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
>>
>> Anthony Durrell did not give any such lecture at the Durrell School.  
>> He
>> blathered on about his own insufficiencies and did not mention his  
>> namesake
>> except to insist that the emphasis was /is on the second syllable  
>> rather
>> than the first. His insolence  was amazing.
>> RP
>> DSC
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lawrence Durrell" <durrell at india.com>
>> To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:12 PM
>> Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG Justine
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Justine is Durrell: such a self-verifying metaphor refuses to allow  
>>> us to
>>> see how it is constructed, but challenges us to go behind it to  
>>> discover
>>> the further metaphors which support it.  Thus we also have the
>>> simultaneous equations "Durrell is the city" and "the city is  
>>> Justine".
>>> If so, only Durrell is "real" because "only the city is real".   
>>> However,
>>> the sand in the oyster is the wishful yet self-defeating statement  
>>> "if
>>> Durrell were a world".
>>>
>>> -- from the lecture given by Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School,  
>>> Corfu
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:23:18 -0400
> From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
> Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- newspaper's edge
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <464B6836.3040403 at wfu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is there anything to be made of these little recurrent epiphanies?
> Anything that I am not recalling?
>
>         A message scribbled on the edge of a newspaper. Here I spilt
>         wine on her cloak, and while attempting to help her repair the
>         damage, accidentally touched her breasts.  (2.7)
>
>         Message on the corner of a newspaper.  Afterwards the closed
>         cab, warm bodies, night, volume of jasmine. ("Consequential
>         Data"/"Workpoints")
>
> And does this "wine on the cloak trick" really work?
>
> A reader of /Justine/.
>
> -- 
> **********************
> Charles L. Sligh
> Department of English
> Wake Forest University
> slighcl at wfu.edu
> **********************
>
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>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:13:19 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one
> 	sentence
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<20070516211322.MBT26782.gx6.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:27:59 -0600
> From: "James Gifford" <gifford at uvic.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one
> 	sentence
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<2bfc74100705161427p5c674d15l95c2f6b700bb7bed at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>> 2.7 is a very interesting passage. Basically it's a collection of  
>> images,
>> with the sentence "Here I spilt wine on her cloak, and while  
>> attempting
>> to help her repair the damage, accidentally touched her breasts"  
>> nestled
>> among them. I think we need to ask Zizek's wonderful question "why  
>> this
>> rather than something else?"
>
> I don't typically trust Zizek, what with his wonderful inversion of
> obversion..., but I wonder if this problems begs the question that
> Michael's been asking for so long now.
>
> That is, how would we (as readers) read this particular moment in the
> text after we've read _Mountolive_ or _Clea_?  Is Darley the cunning
> frat boy who spills wine accidentally on purpose (let's hope not), or
> is Justine the cunning mastermind making the spill so that the
> self-conscious frat boy can make repairs?  I suspect that as readers,
> by the time we're re-reading the novels, we'd opt for the latter
> explanation.  However, as Michael has so carefully argued, Durrell
> hadn't planned an actual Quartet when he first wrote the typescript
> for Justine that went to Fabers.  What then are we left with?  I think
> only the simplest of all readings -- it's a scene in which wine was
> accidentally spilled, perhaps with the temptresses' encouragement but
> not with the same planning as we'd tend to read into it after the
> Quartet, and an accidental slip occured.  Nothing more nor nothing
> less...
>
> Naturally, that doesn't answer why this rather than something else.  I
> can only offer Doris Lessing's wonderful response to such a question:
> isn't the implicit binary of the "or" an artificial imposition, why
> not "and"?  Having this does not negate the possibility of something
> else, so the "rather" is something typical of Zizek -- his imposition
> of a new frame on the discussion so that it moves in his direction,
> whether that imposition has anything to do with the matter at hand or
> not.
>
> Best,
> Jamie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:56:30 -0400
> From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one
> 	sentence
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <464B7E0E.5040307 at wfu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> On 5/16/2007 5:27 PM, James Gifford wrote:
>
>> What then are we left with?  I think
>> only the simplest of all readings -- it's a scene in which wine was
>> accidentally spilled, perhaps with the temptresses' encouragement but
>> not with the same planning as we'd tend to read into it after the
>> Quartet, and an accidental slip occured.  Nothing more nor nothing
>> less...
>>
>
> I think that the strange constellation of some split wine, Justine's
> breasts, and Zizek have deflected the conversation form my query.  (And
> could I really expect anything less?  Those breasts have launched a
> thousand . . . who can say?)  What of the message on the newspaper?
> Beyond episode 2.7 and the workpoint, does that scribbled note ever  
> come
> up again in the /Quartet/, literally (plot) or figuratively?  I am
> having trouble recalling. . . .
>
> I am happy to accept all of this bit  about notes in newspapers and
> touched breasts as an epiphany/ a la /Joyce--or, if you will forgive  
> the
> expression, a "character-squeeze"--just checking.
>
> Reading /Justine /as the tide comes back in.
>
> -- 
> **********************
> Charles L. Sligh
> Department of English
> Wake Forest University
> slighcl at wfu.edu
> **********************
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:01 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
> From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<11870460.1179355802192.JavaMail.root at elwamui- 
> karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Lea asks a fair question, but the answer is beyond me.  Will the real  
> Anthony Durrell please stand up and speak for himself?
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lea Stogdale <leadale at mts.net>
>> Sent: May 16, 2007 9:00 AM
>> To: "'ilds at lists.uvic.ca'" <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>
>> Oh, to admit one's ignorance; how liberating.
>> Could someone please translate this into common parlance, preferably  
>> in
>> English, and then explain what it means and it's relevance to Justine.
>> Thanks,
>> Lea
>>
>>> Subject: [ilds] Anthony Durrell
>>>
>>> The commonplace availability of the relativity theory and the  
>>> principle of
>>
>>> indeterminacy suggests that for every act of Shambalism there is a
>> converse act of
>>> invisibilism, that we accommodate a 'darkness' at least equivalent  
>>> to that
>> which we
>>> have projected onto Asia and other unseen continents. Lhasa as 'a  
>>> joint'
>> is a metaphor
>>> for this condition, for this 'dark night of the soul' which seems  
>>> the best
>> description
>>> for the crisis in the humanities which is now a crisis for humanity.  
>>> It is
>> a purely
>>> subjective matter, a matter of personal faith, whether or not we can  
>>> come
>> out the
>>> other side sufficiently intact after the inevitable sacrifice that  
>>> this
>> will involve,
>>> sufficiently able to function as people capable of relations. At the  
>>> mo
>> ment, we are in
>>> that 'gap' or state of liminality in the words of Homi Bhabha, and  
>>> which
>> Durrell
>>> recognised in himself and incorporated in so many of his characters,
>> before he took
>>> himself off to the Lake Isle of Shangri-la.
>>>
>>> -- from a lecture by Anthony Durrell, psychiatrist and literary  
>>> theorist, 
>> at the
>>> Durrell School, Corfu
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:56:18 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one
> 	sentence
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<20070516225551.QIIA13769.gx4.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:23:33 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
> 	sentences
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<20070516232402.XEMT4560.gx5.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:38:16 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: [ilds] addresses written in the corner of newspapers
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<20070516233749.BFGO26782.gx6.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:11:14 +0100
> From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
> 	sentences
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <20839095-040B-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Just to comment on the actuality of some of those images in 2.7.  The
> Place Zaghloul (my preferred spelling) is what had earlier been, in E M
> Forster's time, the French Gardens and is now the Midan Orabi.  It is a
> square running off towards the corniche and the Eastern Harbour from
> the main square of the city, Place Mohammed Ali (now Midan al-Tahrir,
> ie Liberation Square).  All around that area there are grand buildings
> but also cafes and little shops.  Eve's father had his money changing
> business in the Place Mohammed Ali with a draw-down metal front.  Caged
> birds were and still are sold there and in the streets behind, also
> along and just off the Rue Cherif Pasha, what used to be Alexandria's
> Bond Street, and which runs into Place Mohammed Ali.  Forster recounts
> a fracas to do with caged birds in Place Mohammed Ali in one of his
> letters during the First World War.  On two opposite sides of the Place
> Mohammed Ali there are galleries -- I mean buildings constructed like
> the Victor Emmanuel gallery in Milan but not so large.  So the Place
> Zaghloul was flanked on either side, at its Place Mohammed Ali end,
> with these galleries.  Each complex is arranged in four blocks with
> broad promenades between them in the plan of a cross.  Roofs of glass
> span the these promenades making them all-weather places, making them
> pleasant for shopper and for cafes and restaurants which have their
> tables set out there.  Or which did.  All of this is pretty much past,
> but there are a few dumpy cafes and restaurants still surviving even
> though in at least one case that I recall someone has built the tomb of
> a Muslim saint splat in the middle of the goings-on.  And so you sit
> there, as you would have sat there in the past, sort of outdoors yet
> indoors, the choking smoke rising from the open grill (but the retsina
> barrels gone owing to the lack of Greeks and to the Islamists, and so
> having to make do with tea or coffee or Fanta), exactly as Durrell
> describes the scene.  One of these galleries, by the way, was called
> the Gallerie Menasce; it was built by the grandfather of Durrell's wife
> Claude.  I say that these are all-weather places, but what they really
> offer protection against is the sun which can be fierce in Alexandria;
> the gallery arrangement is perfect for that; and the fierceness of the
> sun also explains why the streets of Alexandria are so narrow -- high
> and narrow, so that they are as far as possible always in shadow, the
> buildings and houses all with cooling balconies.
>
> :Michael
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 12:23  am, william godshalk wrote:
>
>> Charlie, I'll bet you have an answer for the image of a newspaper with
>> a message scribbled on the edge.
>>
>> But in context it appears to be an isolated image. Now that I look at
>> the passage again, there are two sentences. The second is "No word was
>> spoken." That may or may not follow the touching of the breast, i.e. I
>> spilt wine on her, touched her breast, but we said nothing. Perhaps
>> the silence is an isolated image.
>>
>> Whose breast is touched?
>>
>> Is this a scene from the Place Zagloul? Why silverware and caged
>> doves? Why are the whitebait "flying"? The "smoke" may suggest that
>> the fish are being cooked or smoked. I cannot find retzinnato. I
>> assume it's retzina given the "black barrels."
>>
>> While Pursewarden spoke so brilliantly of Alexandria and the burning
>> library. "While" when? While the breast is being touched?
>>
>> And finally the wretch screaming with meningitis . . .? .
>>
>> Are these isolated images?
>>
>> Bill_______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:28:48 -0400
> From: william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
> 	sentences
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID:
> 	<20070517002830.QSYU13769.gx4.fuse.net at bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:28:58 +0100
> From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
> Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.7
> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
> Message-ID: <9A7B5D06-040D-11DC-ACE4-000393B1149C at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Attached is a photograph of Mohammed Ali Square as it was around the
> time of the First World War.  It would not have looked much different
> in the 1930s except that there would have been some motor cars.  The
> view is from the Bourse.  On the right is the English Church, St
> Mark's.  Half way down on the right hand side of the square there is a
> gap between two high buildings -- this is where the French Gardens,
> later Place Zaghloul, ran off towards the Corniche.  The buildings are
> the gallerias I referred to, the scene of the choking smoke, perhaps
> even the wine on Justine's cloak.  Eve Cohen's father's shop was on the
> left of the picture, facing that tram.
>
> :Michael
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
> End of ILDS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 64
> ***********************************
>
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From grudigoz at hotmail.com  Thu May 17 13:46:35 2007
From: grudigoz at hotmail.com (grudigoz at hotmail.com)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:46:35 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
References: <2336210.1179422865299.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV14E56E365676BBC6696B90D0330@phx.gbl>

"Bruce, I am with you all the way",  sait  Ikyas Khan. For me too 
Pursewarden is the most interesting person in all the entire Quartet and I 
shall never forget him even if my  fist reading of the Quartet  nearly goes 
back now to fifty years. Georgette Rudigoz . FRANCE
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook


> Good to hear, Ilyas.  Now there are two of us, besides Gore Vidal, in 
> whose company it is always an honor to be mentioned.  I like to think 
> Ludwig Pursewarden represents the "dark side" of his author, so Virgilian 
> "tenebrous" is highly apt.  Darley (aka Arnauti?) and his light side have 
> their appeal, but Ludwig's darkness, as seen in the Quintet, seems to have 
> won out.  Arnauti or Pursewarden?  Which does one prefer?  Or are they 
> doubles, doppelganger?  Doubles, you know, are all over the place, and not 
> only in literature.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>
>>Sent: May 17, 2007 7:35 AM
>>To: "Bruce Redwine , ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, 
>>ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>
>>Bruce, I am with you all the way. You are not alone. I think it was Vidal
>>(or Miller ??) who described Pursewarden as being a "totally tenebrous
>>character". Inspired by this delicious description (I needed a dictionary 
>>to
>>figure it out !), I re-read with greater interest.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 5/17/07 10:30 PM, "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Dullards like Pursewarden."  Mon Dieu, how can you say this about my 
>>> hero,
>>> the most interesting person in the entire Quartet and quite possibly 
>>> Durrell's
>>> entire oeuvre!  The great author's greatest creation, the great ironist,
>>> himself the author of God Is a Humourist (that title in itself will 
>>> endure for
>>> all time).  Haag has it in for Pursey just became he didn't like Alex 
>>> and
>>> preferred incest.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 15:31:44 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 18:31:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
Message-ID: <8089275.1179441104313.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Merci, Georgette.  Good to hear from France.  Now we are four, quatre.  En avant!

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>>From: grudigoz at hotmail.com
>>Sent: May 17, 2007 4:46 PM
>>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>
>>"Bruce, I am with you all the way",  sait  Ikyas Khan. For me too 
>>Pursewarden is the most interesting person in all the entire Quartet and I 
>>shall never forget him even if my  fist reading of the Quartet  nearly goes 
>>back now to fifty years. Georgette Rudigoz . FRANCE
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>>Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:27 PM
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>
>>
>>> Good to hear, Ilyas.  Now there are two of us, besides Gore Vidal, in 
>>> whose company it is always an honor to be mentioned.  I like to think 
>>> Ludwig Pursewarden represents the "dark side" of his author, so Virgilian 
>>> "tenebrous" is highly apt.  Darley (aka Arnauti?) and his light side have 
>>> their appeal, but Ludwig's darkness, as seen in the Quintet, seems to have 
>>> won out.  Arnauti or Pursewarden?  Which does one prefer?  Or are they 
>>> doubles, doppelganger?  Doubles, you know, are all over the place, and not 
>>> only in literature.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>
>>>>Sent: May 17, 2007 7:35 AM
>>>>To: "Bruce Redwine , ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, 
>>>>ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>>>
>>>>Bruce, I am with you all the way. You are not alone. I think it was Vidal
>>>>(or Miller ??) who described Pursewarden as being a "totally tenebrous
>>>>character". Inspired by this delicious description (I needed a dictionary 
>>>>to
>>>>figure it out !), I re-read with greater interest.
>>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 16:43:26 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:43:26 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
Message-ID: <4324650.1179445406908.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I can only speak for myself.  So, yes to the first question and no to the second.  Join in and you won't be bored.  There's still room for a fifth.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Marc Piel <marcpiel at interdesign.fr>
>Sent: May 17, 2007 4:12 PM
>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>
>For me Pusewaden, Arnauti, Darley were all 
>different incarnations (or states of mind) of LD.
>Am I totally naive, or are the four or five of 
>you, playing this game just jacking each other 
>off?????
>If you are enjoying it , I find it rather boring! 
>And without any interest, but perhaps you don't 
>give a .....?
>
>Bruce Redwine wrote:
>
>> Merci, Georgette.  Good to hear from France.  Now we are four, quatre.  En avant!
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>>>>From: grudigoz at hotmail.com
>>>>Sent: May 17, 2007 4:46 PM
>>>>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>>>
>>>>"Bruce, I am with you all the way",  sait  Ikyas Khan. For me too 
>>>>Pursewarden is the most interesting person in all the entire Quartet and I 
>>>>shall never forget him even if my  fist reading of the Quartet  nearly goes 
>>>>back now to fifty years. Georgette Rudigoz . FRANCE
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 



From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Thu May 17 16:12:10 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 01:12:10 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
In-Reply-To: <8089275.1179441104313.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8089275.1179441104313.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <464CE14A.5030908@interdesign.fr>

For me Pusewaden, Arnauti, Darley were all 
different incarnations (or states of mind) of LD.
Am I totally naive, or are the four or five of 
you, playing this game just jacking each other 
off?????
If you are enjoying it , I find it rather boring! 
And without any interest, but perhaps you don't 
give a .....?

Bruce Redwine wrote:

> Merci, Georgette.  Good to hear from France.  Now we are four, quatre.  En avant!
> 
> Bruce
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
>>>From: grudigoz at hotmail.com
>>>Sent: May 17, 2007 4:46 PM
>>>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>>
>>>"Bruce, I am with you all the way",  sait  Ikyas Khan. For me too 
>>>Pursewarden is the most interesting person in all the entire Quartet and I 
>>>shall never forget him even if my  fist reading of the Quartet  nearly goes 
>>>back now to fifty years. Georgette Rudigoz . FRANCE
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Bruce Redwine" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>>To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
>>>Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:27 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Good to hear, Ilyas.  Now there are two of us, besides Gore Vidal, in 
>>>>whose company it is always an honor to be mentioned.  I like to think 
>>>>Ludwig Pursewarden represents the "dark side" of his author, so Virgilian 
>>>>"tenebrous" is highly apt.  Darley (aka Arnauti?) and his light side have 
>>>>their appeal, but Ludwig's darkness, as seen in the Quintet, seems to have 
>>>>won out.  Arnauti or Pursewarden?  Which does one prefer?  Or are they 
>>>>doubles, doppelganger?  Doubles, you know, are all over the place, and not 
>>>>only in literature.
>>>>
>>>>Bruce
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>>>From: Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>
>>>>>Sent: May 17, 2007 7:35 AM
>>>>>To: "Bruce Redwine , ilds at lists.uvic.ca" <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>, 
>>>>>ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>>>>Subject: Re: [ilds] Pursewarden's Notebook
>>>>>
>>>>>Bruce, I am with you all the way. You are not alone. I think it was Vidal
>>>>>(or Miller ??) who described Pursewarden as being a "totally tenebrous
>>>>>character". Inspired by this delicious description (I needed a dictionary 
>>>>>to
>>>>>figure it out !), I re-read with greater interest.
>>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Thu May 17 18:54:09 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 21:54:09 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook and Arnauti's fiction
In-Reply-To: <e7e26f0dc200d5dd0e91450a2b32b81a@charter.net>
References: <mailman.706.1179361761.888862.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
	<e7e26f0dc200d5dd0e91450a2b32b81a@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20070518015340.FZVA4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From durrell at telstra.com  Thu May 17 17:43:36 2007
From: durrell at telstra.com (durrell at telstra.com)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:43:36 +1000
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
In-Reply-To: <25343889.1179426561428.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <25343889.1179426561428.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <464CF6B8.3010101@telstra.com>

Bruce Redwine wrote:
> Not being at the Corfu seminar on Creativity and Madness in 2005, I'd 
> like to ask  Dr. Anthony Durrell a question about his talk.  About 
> "parallel curves" and "matching" shoes with unmatching colors, which 
> have great appeal to me, is Dr. Durrell alluding to the role of 
> doubles or doppelganger in life and literature?  What kinds of doubles 
> does AD see in LD, man and artist, whose name he shares, if not the 
> same pronunciation?  Indeed, in Dr. Durrell's professional opinion as 
> a psychiatrist, what is the aetiology of doubling?  And is it a 
> phenomenon he's observed in his professional practice?  Very big 
> questions, I realize, but I would like to know, however brief the 
> answer.  I think this has some bearing on Durrellian studies.
>
> Bruce
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Anthony Durrell
>     Sent: May 17, 2007 8:27 AM
>     To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>     Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
>
>     Meeting himself as an historical personage changes the question
>     ?Who am I?? to ?Who was I?? and requires one to attempt to
>     objectivise oneself: as this historical philosophical element is
>     brought into play at the Durrell School in Corfu we see Durrell
>     failing to keep this impersonal difference; like Darley he finds
>     himself mucking about in the historical present.  
>
>     We can see that Durrell succeeded in creating a ?long metaphor?
>     which equates not two but three elements: he has narrated the
>     three types of time identified by Ricoeur (historical time,
>     fictional time and lived experience); he has introduced classical
>     mythology to the literature of the ?real? city and the narrated
>     fiction; and he has created an allegory in which the mythic, the
>     philosophical and the fictional become one in the figure of
>     Justine, in whom, by extension, every other character in the
>     Quartet participates.
>
>     Imposing order and ascribing value are activities which demand
>     relation between parallel curves, explaining why it is advisable
>     that one?s shoes should have matching but not identical colors.  
>
>     -- from the talk given by Dr Anthony Durrell at the Durrell
>     School, Corfu
>
>
>      
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     AUSI.COM at http://ausi.com - the BEST FREE EMAIL
>
>     HOLIDAYS & FUN -- AUSITRAVEL at http://ausitravel.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>   
Bruce has raised some interesting points regarding the potential for 
simple newtowian physics to be applied to the literary output of 
LD......yes for every  conscious thought and affect state generated 
within the writer there is a corresponding and opposite unconscious 
thought and affect......thus as a writer one simultaneously generates 2 
new realities.... one on paper ....and a second metaphysical creation 
which is an opposing shadow of this physical creation generated and 
deposited in the unconscious.....what a heavy responsibility for the 
writer to bear and wear!!....anthony durrell

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Thu May 17 19:21:47 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 03:21:47 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
In-Reply-To: <464CF6B8.3010101@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <87AFB79A-04E6-11DC-9A34-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

>>

Dear Dr Durrell

That is all very interesting.  But tell us about your shoes.

Yours

Michael Haag


>>
> Bruce has raised some interesting points regarding the potential for
> simple newtowian physics to be applied to the literary output of
> LD......yes for every  conscious thought and affect state generated
> within the writer there is a corresponding and opposite unconscious
> thought and affect......thus as a writer one simultaneously generates 2
> new realities.... one on paper ....and a second metaphysical creation
> which is an opposing shadow of this physical creation generated and
> deposited in the unconscious.....what a heavy responsibility for the
> writer to bear and wear!!....anthony durrell
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From durrell at telstra.com  Thu May 17 19:24:19 2007
From: durrell at telstra.com (durrell at telstra.com)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:24:19 +1000
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
In-Reply-To: <200705171639.l4HGduoJ1839288@cascara.comp.uvic.ca>
References: <200705171639.l4HGduoJ1839288@cascara.comp.uvic.ca>
Message-ID: <464D0E53.50809@telstra.com>

richardpin at eircom.net wrote:
> This is pure (or impure) dishonesty - Anthony Durrell did not say any of this during his spurious talk (!) at the DSC in 2005 - either the writer of these messages is not Anthony Durrell, or Anthony Durrell is a deranged somethingpath who should be put in a mental straitjacket and fed dogfood. He said nothing of the kind, I repeat his 'presentation' was inept, puerile and well below the intellectual level of even the dimmest member of the audience. And what he says in this message (about the 'long metaphor' - a term coined by me for the descriptions of Alexandria) is lifted straight out of my book, which as a matter of courtesy I was stupid enough to give him a copy of and which he, as a matter of discourtesy, stupidity and insolence has attempted to arrogate to himself. If his contribution to our seminar had been of the slightest interest, it owuld hav e(perhaps) merited inclusion in the resulting p[roceedings which have just been published. But it wasnt. It was rubbish. I !
>  wish his ancestors had been hanged instead of deported to Australia. There must be a family connectio n to the LD/GD family, but he has disgraced it by his behaviour.
>
> anthonydurrell at ausi.com, ilds at lists.uvic.ca wrote:
>
> <  
> <  --===============0399178262==
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> <  MIME-Version: 1.0
> <  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> <  Content-Disposition: inline
> <  
> <  _______________________________________________
> <  ILDS mailing list
> <  ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> <  https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> <  
> <  --===============0399178262==--
> <  
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property
> Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>   
richard thankyou for your kind words which are appreciated in light of 
your emotional incontinence....why not reconsider your  harsh critical 
tone as an over reaction......things will heal in time and i look 
forward to resolving your misperceptions and returning to the DSC soon 
to set things straight....AD



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Thu May 17 20:23:33 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 23:23:33 -0400
Subject: [ilds] all's quiet on the Durrell front
In-Reply-To: <464D0E53.50809@telstra.com>
References: <200705171639.l4HGduoJ1839288@cascara.comp.uvic.ca>
	<464D0E53.50809@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <20070518032303.KDSA26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 21:49:06 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 21:49:06 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
Message-ID: <24162621.1179463747193.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I assume Dr. Durrell has responded to Richard Pine's charges, but all I receive is a long block of code or asci.  I don't think this is indecipherable invective.  What does this mean?

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: "durrell at telstra.com" <durrell at telstra.com>
>Sent: May 17, 2007 7:24 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine
>
>richardpin at eircom.net wrote:
>> This is pure (or impure) dishonesty - Anthony Durrell did not say any of this during his spurious talk (!) at the DSC in 2005 - either the writer of these messages is not Anthony Durrell, or Anthony Durrell is a deranged somethingpath who should be put in a mental straitjacket and fed dogfood. He said nothing of the kind, I repeat his 'presentation' was inept, puerile and well below the intellectual level of even the dimmest member of the audience. And what he says in this message (about the 'long metaphor' - a term coined by me for the descriptions of Alexandria) is lifted straight out of my book, which as a matter of courtesy I was stupid enough to give him a copy of and which he, as a matter of discourtesy, stupidity and insolence has attempted to arrogate to himself. If his contribution to our seminar had been of the slightest interest, it owuld hav e(perhaps) merited inclusion in the resulting p[roceedings which have just been published. But it wasnt. It was rubbish. !
> I !
>>  wish his ancestors had been hanged instead of deported to Australia. There must be a family connectio n to the LD/GD family, but he has disgraced it by his behaviour.
>>
>> anthonydurrell at ausi.com, ilds at lists.uvic.ca wrote:
>>
>> <  
>> <  --===============0399178262==
>> <  Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
>> <  Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>> <  
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>> <  Y3JpYmluZyB2YWx1ZSBhcmUgYWN0aXZpdGllcyB3aGljaCBkZW1hbmQgcmVsYXRpb24gYmV0d2Vl
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>> <  ZeKAmXMgc2hvZXMgc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUgbWF0Y2hpbmcgYnV0IG5vdCBpZGVudGljYWwgY29sb3Jz
>> <  LiAmbmJzcDs8QlI+PEJSPi0tIGZyb20gdGhlIHRhbGsgZ2l2ZW4gYnkgRHIgQW50aG9ueSBEdXJy
>> <  ZWxsIGF0IHRoZSBEdXJyZWxsIFNjaG9vbCwgQ29yZnU8QlI+PC9GT05UPjxCUj48L1NQQU4+PC9G
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>> <  RVNUIEZSRUUgRU1BSUw8QlI+PEJSPkhPTElEQVlTICZhbXA7IEZVTiAtLSBBVVNJVFJBVkVMIGF0
>> <  IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXNpdHJhdmVsLmNvbTwvRElWPg==
>> <  
>> <  --===============0399178262==
>> <  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> <  MIME-Version: 1.0
>> <  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> <  Content-Disposition: inline
>> <  
>> <  _______________________________________________
>> <  ILDS mailing list
>> <  ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> <  https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> <  
>> <  --===============0399178262==--
>> <  
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property
>> Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>   
>richard thankyou for your kind words which are appreciated in light of 
>your emotional incontinence....why not reconsider your  harsh critical 
>tone as an over reaction......things will heal in time and i look 
>forward to resolving your misperceptions and returning to the DSC soon 
>to set things straight....AD
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 22:03:03 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:03:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
Message-ID: <15884050.1179464583831.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Apologies.  I found the answer, after a long scroll.  Dr. Durrell seems very understanding and reasonable.  Next time in Sydney I'll definitely want to discuss Newtonian physics with him.  It should prove interesting.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>Sent: May 17, 2007 9:49 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine
>
>I assume Dr. Durrell has responded to Richard Pine's charges, but all I receive is a long block of code or asci.  I don't think this is indecipherable invective.  What does this mean?
>
>Bruce
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "durrell at telstra.com" <durrell at telstra.com>
>>Sent: May 17, 2007 7:24 PM
>>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine
>>
>>richardpin at eircom.net wrote:
>>> This is pure (or impure) dishonesty - Anthony Durrell did not say any of this during his spurious talk (!) at the DSC in 2005 - either the writer of these messages is not Anthony Durrell, or Anthony Durrell is a deranged somethingpath who should be put in a mental straitjacket and fed dogfood. He said nothing of the kind, I repeat his 'presentation' was inept, puerile and well below the intellectual level of even the dimmest member of the audience. And what he says in this message (about the 'long metaphor' - a term coined by me for the descriptions of Alexandria) is lifted straight out of my book, which as a matter of courtesy I was stupid enough to give him a copy of and which he, as a matter of discourtesy, stupidity and insolence has attempted to arrogate to himself. If his contribution to our seminar had been of the slightest interest, it owuld hav e(perhaps) merited inclusion in the resulting p[roceedings which have just been published. But it wasnt. It was rubbish.!
>  !
>> I !
>>>  wish his ancestors had been hanged instead of deported to Australia. There must be a family connectio n to the LD/GD family, but he has disgraced it by his behaviour.
>>>
>>> anthonydurrell at ausi.com, ilds at lists.uvic.ca wrote:
>>>
>>> <  
>>> <  --===============0399178262==
>>> <  Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
>>> <  Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>>> <  
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>>> <  YnkgUmljb2V1ciAoaGlzdG9yaWNhbCB0aW1lLCBmaWN0aW9uYWwgdGltZSBhbmQgbGl2ZWQgZXhw
>>> <  ZXJpZW5jZSk7IGhlIGhhcyBpbnRyb2R1Y2VkIGNsYXNzaWNhbCBteXRob2xvZ3kgdG8gdGhlIGxp
>>> <  dGVyYXR1cmUgb2YgdGhlIOKAmHJlYWzigJkgY2l0eSBhbmQgdGhlIG5hcnJhdGVkIGZpY3Rpb247
>>> <  IGFuZCBoZSBoYXMgY3JlYXRlZCBhbiBhbGxlZ29yeSBpbiB3aGljaCB0aGUgbXl0aGljLCB0aGUg
>>> <  cGhpbG9zb3BoaWNhbCBhbmQgdGhlIGZpY3Rpb25hbCBiZWNvbWUgb25lIGluIHRoZSBmaWd1cmUg
>>> <  b2YgSnVzdGluZSwgaW4gd2hvbSwgYnkgZXh0ZW5zaW9uLCBldmVyeSBvdGhlciBjaGFyYWN0ZXIg
>>> <  aW4gdGhlIFF1YXJ0ZXQgcGFydGljaXBhdGVzLjxCUj48QlI+SW1wb3Npbmcgb3JkZXIgYW5kIGFz
>>> <  Y3JpYmluZyB2YWx1ZSBhcmUgYWN0aXZpdGllcyB3aGljaCBkZW1hbmQgcmVsYXRpb24gYmV0d2Vl
>>> <  biBwYXJhbGxlbCBjdXJ2ZXMsIGV4cGxhaW5pbmcgd2h5IGl0IGlzIGFkdmlzYWJsZSB0aGF0IG9u
>>> <  ZeKAmXMgc2hvZXMgc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUgbWF0Y2hpbmcgYnV0IG5vdCBpZGVudGljYWwgY29sb3Jz
>>> <  LiAmbmJzcDs8QlI+PEJSPi0tIGZyb20gdGhlIHRhbGsgZ2l2ZW4gYnkgRHIgQW50aG9ueSBEdXJy
>>> <  ZWxsIGF0IHRoZSBEdXJyZWxsIFNjaG9vbCwgQ29yZnU8QlI+PC9GT05UPjxCUj48L1NQQU4+PC9G
>>> <  T05UPjxCUj4mbmJzcDs8QlI+PEhSPkFVU0kuQ09NIGF0IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXNpLmNvbSAtIHRoZSBC
>>> <  RVNUIEZSRUUgRU1BSUw8QlI+PEJSPkhPTElEQVlTICZhbXA7IEZVTiAtLSBBVVNJVFJBVkVMIGF0
>>> <  IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXNpdHJhdmVsLmNvbTwvRElWPg==
>>> <  
>>> <  --===============0399178262==
>>> <  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> <  MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> <  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>> <  Content-Disposition: inline
>>> <  
>>> <  _______________________________________________
>>> <  ILDS mailing list
>>> <  ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> <  https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>> <  
>>> <  --===============0399178262==--
>>> <  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property
>>> Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>>   
>>richard thankyou for your kind words which are appreciated in light of 
>>your emotional incontinence....why not reconsider your  harsh critical 
>>tone as an over reaction......things will heal in time and i look 
>>forward to resolving your misperceptions and returning to the DSC soon 
>>to set things straight....AD
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ILDS mailing list
>>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Fri May 18 06:39:32 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:39:32 -0400
Subject: [ilds] moderation
In-Reply-To: <15884050.1179464583831.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <15884050.1179464583831.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <464DAC94.8060005@wfu.edu>

Dear Subscribers:

While I am always one to honor Durrell's vintry ethic--his laurels were 
woven of the grapevine, quite obviously--I believe that at this moment 
in the listserv's history we could use a bit of moderation.  Most 
certainly we can still explore and discuss and debate what happened (or 
still happens) at the Durrell School of Corfu, and any other topic 
related to Lawrence Durrell or the peculiar intellectual culture that 
has sprung up around his writings is always welcome in the list.  
However, I really must insist that we not let the conversation suffer a 
decline into /ad hominem/ remarks.   As El Skob would have observed, 
things have gotten a bit "vivid" of late.  (Cf. "Scobie's Common Usage," 
/Balthazar/) 

In fact, I think the moderation will now be guided by Scobie's Rules.  
"Mauve" is very fine.  Slip it on as necessary when you post late at 
night.  Like the grape, it turns us back to Rabelais and Villon and "The 
Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson," keeping us from becoming too 
"Presbyterian" about these heady matters.  (Cf. Pursewarden's almanack 
for alternate lexicon of the moderator's expressions.)  And a "spoof" or 
two can be fun.  But no "septic" remarks, please.

Scouting off elsewhere, to the tune of "Watchman, What of the Night?"

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From ilyas.khan at crosby.com  Thu May 17 20:53:25 2007
From: ilyas.khan at crosby.com (Ilyas Khan)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:53:25 +0800
Subject: [ilds] Pursewarden's lost notebook, etc. ILDS Digest, Vol 2,
 Issue 64
In-Reply-To: <e7e26f0dc200d5dd0e91450a2b32b81a@charter.net>
Message-ID: <C2734435.1B0F7%ilyas.khan@crosby.com>

Ed,

I just finished reading LRB on the way back from Jakarta, (a long and
normally tiresome flight), and found myself captivated by Frank?s piece on
Forster. I have been resigned to the fact that the LRB has fallen from its
once lofty and consistently applied standards of writing ? in fact the
comparison with NYROB which was once a valid one, can no longer be
maintained. This article, and, in the same issue, the piece on Vidal by
Inigo Thomas, were not only reminders of how good LRB once was, but also a
hopeful pointer towards the future.

Kermode?s article bought to mind, in many ways, the context in which Justine
was first greeted and criticised on its debut publication. I like, and take
great pleasure from James and from Durrell, and I could not help but think
about Durrell?s views on Forster or on the ?master? himself. Strether, so
detested by Forster, would be given a gentler and more sypathetic greeting
by LD.

Ilyas
Hong Kong




On 5/18/07 2:47 AM, "Edward Hungerford" <eahunger at charter.net> wrote:

> I have been following the various digests, and find them rewarding, especially
> some recent ones.   I thought I would share some speculations that have
> occurred to me about lost notebooks, as well as other narrators within the
> text of Justine. 
> 
> This edition of the ILDS digest interested me a great deal.  I have never
> cared much for Pursewarden's ideas, though obviously his character and his
> raison d'etre are important--indeed, central-- to The Quartet.  (By the way,
> I prefer the versions of Justine that make Pursew. short and stubby and very
> blond.)    However, the character of the minor novelist Arnauti should also be
> investigated.  He was known to have been working on a psycho-biography called
> the House of Hosnani  at the time he disappears from literary history.
> Still, his Moeurs shows considerable achievements as a novelist of
> psychoanalytic leaning, and his earlier novels, too, though obscure and
> difficult to obtain, being out of print for 50 or more years, should be
> resurrected sometime.   I personally always found Arnauti's writing percipient
> and rewarding, if rather unbalanced.   Anyone as totally immersed in the
> culture of Alexandria, as Arnauti was, and once married to Justine, would have
> known Melissa also, and perhaps in his earlier fiction we might obtain some
> glimpses of her youth and upbringing, if indeed she actually lived in
> Alexandria at that period.   Has anyone recently seen these early works of
> Arnauti in a used book store?  ---
>         On a completely different subject, those persons who concern
> themselves with the technical terminology of reading fiction (namely, critics)
> may be interested in a recent article in the London Review of Books, 10 May
> 2007, p. 15-24,   "Fiction and E. M. Forster,"  by Frank Kermode.  Most of us
> have probably taught from some anthology compiled by Kermode, who can be
> stuffy and dogmatic about poetry, but this present article on Forster appealed
> to me for its discussion of "narratology," in a far from dogmatic way.    ---
> Ed Hungerford 
> 
> On May 16, 2007, at 5:29 PM, ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca wrote:
> 
>> Send ILDS mailing list submissions to
>>     ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>     https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>     ilds-request at lists.uvic.ca
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>     ilds-owner at lists.uvic.ca
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of ILDS digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics: 
>> 
>>    1. Re: transvestites (Durrell School of Corfu)
>>    2. Re: Anthony Durrell (Durrell School of Corfu)
>>    3. Re: Anthony Durrell (Durrell School of Corfu)
>>    4. Re: ILDS RG Justine (Durrell School of Corfu)
>>    5. Julian's Flight (william godshalk)
>>    6. Re: transvestites (Bruce Redwine)
>>    7. Re: transvestites (Michael Haag)
>>    8. Re: transvestites (slighcl)
>>    9. Re: transvestites (william godshalk)
>>   10. Re: transvestites (Michael Haag)
>>   11. Julian's sexy flight (william godshalk)
>>   12. Re: ILDS RG Justine (Bruce Redwine)
>>   13. RG Justine 2.7 -- newspaper's edge (slighcl)
>>   14. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>>       (william godshalk)
>>   15. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>>       (James Gifford)
>>   16. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>>       (slighcl) 
>>   17. Re: Anthony Durrell (Bruce Redwine)
>>   18. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and one sentence
>>       (william godshalk)
>>   19. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
>>       sentences (william godshalk)
>>   20. addresses written in the corner of newspapers (william godshalk)
>>   21. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
>>       sentences (Michael Haag)
>>   22. Re: RG Justine 2.7 -- a collection of images and two
>>       sentences (william godshalk)
>>   23. RG Justine 2.7 (Michael Haag) 

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From anthonydurrell at ausi.com  Thu May 17 20:56:05 2007
From: anthonydurrell at ausi.com (Anthony Durrell)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 20:56:05 -0700
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
Message-ID: <20070517205605.92B3125@resin11.mta.everyone.net>

Pine?s strategy ? for it is indeed a conscious ploy on his part ? is to create relative truth by adroitly juxtaposing insults.  In order to support the Durrell School which he brought into existence as an affective universe, he has required an autocratic syntax which has at is core a self-verifying madness.  In this way he tries to convince us of the truth of his fictions, deceiving us into entering his world, confident that, although he has removed the traditional safety nets of decorum, he has replaced them with measures more satisfactory for an ?age of stress?: the incongruence of language, meaning and configuration.  In his reference to the ?semantic disturbance? he speaks of an examination of the inner world of self and the outer world of matter: the atom split, the psyche split, the Pineapple split.  

-- from the talk given by Dr Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu


_____________________________________________________________
AUSI.COM at http://ausi.com - the BEST FREE EMAIL

HOLIDAYS & FUN -- AUSITRAVEL at http://ausitravel.com


From durrell at telstra.com  Thu May 17 21:50:16 2007
From: durrell at telstra.com (durrell at telstra.com)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:50:16 +1000
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
In-Reply-To: <87AFB79A-04E6-11DC-9A34-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <87AFB79A-04E6-11DC-9A34-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <464D3088.5080202@telstra.com>

Michael Haag wrote:
>
> Dear Dr Durrell
>
> That is all very interesting.  But tell us about your shoes.
>
> Yours
>
> Michael Haag
>
>
>   
>> Bruce has raised some interesting points regarding the potential for
>> simple newtowian physics to be applied to the literary output of
>> LD......yes for every  conscious thought and affect state generated
>> within the writer there is a corresponding and opposite unconscious
>> thought and affect......thus as a writer one simultaneously generates 2
>> new realities.... one on paper ....and a second metaphysical creation
>> which is an opposing shadow of this physical creation generated and
>> deposited in the unconscious.....what a heavy responsibility for the
>> writer to bear and wear!!....anthony durrell
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>     
> Thanks for your interest in the infamous shoes which  I am pleased to hear left some imprint upon the DSC floor and perhaps on the psyche of those in the audience with the courage to temporarily suspend their monotonous subjectivity whilst listening creatively rather than critically... why are  our shoes typically of the same colour??...why are we, as visual creatures, driven towards chromatic symmetry across the midline??...the shoes carry more than a metaphor within a metaphor ... look to your foundations and perhaps the realisation that without tension their is no potential for change and hence no life...could shoe colour incite a discussion regarding the foundation of the dualistic nature of man...the question of what are the foundations of the cartesian psyche after all was the essence of LD life work!
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>   


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 07:00:04 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:00:04 +0100
Subject: [ilds] no plot and unfortunately verging on the poetic
Message-ID: <13BF337A-0548-11DC-A663-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I have come across the following on the net:

Entry tags:	books, review

Prospero's Cell
I had one of those trips to the library where I go in to fetch the one 
thing I had on hold and stagger out a while later carrying a big stack 
of books. So this is only part of them.
Prospero's Cell (Lawrence Durrell): It is always slightly chancy to 
pick up a book because you saw someone on the bus reading it and the 
few lines you read over their shoulder seemed interesting. This time it 
worked out well, though. It's not something I would have chosen myself 
-- no action, not much humor, no plot, and at times I'm afraid it 
verges on the poetic -- but it somehow works. It's a memoir of the time 
the author spent on Corfu in 1937, written as diary entries interrupted 
with extended digressions. And the thing is, it was written four years 
after that, with the author trapped in Egypt by WWII (and some of his 
friends dead and gone). So the guy already loves Corfu, and now he's 
looking back on it from the sucky spot he's in now, and no wonder it's 
this dreamy recollection of days gone by, with little stories about the 
places and the people. Given all that, I can't begrudge him a little 
poetry.


http://inkylj.livejournal.com/16583.html
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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 18 07:07:47 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:07:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
Message-ID: <28332553.1179497267554.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Life has few moments of revelation.  I thank Dr. Durrell for giving me one.  I shall never again look at a pair of shoes in the same way.  In fact, I think I'll now go into my closet and liberate my own shoes from the tyranny of symmetry, chromatic and otherwise.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: "durrell at telstra.com" <durrell at telstra.com>
>Sent: May 17, 2007 9:50 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine
>
>    
>> Thanks for your interest in the infamous shoes which  I am pleased to hear left some imprint upon the DSC floor and perhaps on the psyche of those in the audience with the courage to temporarily suspend their monotonous subjectivity whilst listening creatively rather than critically... why are  our shoes typically of the same colour??...why are we, as visual creatures, driven towards chromatic symmetry across the midline??...the shoes carry more than a metaphor within a metaphor ... look to your foundations and perhaps the realisation that without tension their is no potential for change and hence no life...could shoe colour incite a discussion regarding the foundation of the dualistic nature of man...the question of what are the foundations of the cartesian psyche after all was the essence of LD life work!
>> _______________________________________________


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Fri May 18 07:17:18 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:17:18 -0400
Subject: [ilds] unfortunately verging on the poetic
In-Reply-To: <13BF337A-0548-11DC-A663-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <13BF337A-0548-11DC-A663-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <464DB56E.6060707@wfu.edu>

On 5/18/2007 10:00 AM, Michael Haag wrote:

> It's not something I would have chosen myself -- no action, not much 
> humor, no plot, and at times I'm afraid it verges on the poetic -- but 
> it somehow works. 

> Given all that, I can't begrudge him a little poetry.__

Thanks, Michael.  Like the covergirl blog entry on /Justine/, this is 
another interesting note for measuring Durrell's position and potential 
readership at present.  As someone who teaches Victorian Poetry--and not 
just Victorian Poetry, but the poetry of Swinburne and Rossetti, who can 
in some ways be read as writing "poetry for poetry's sake"--I am ever 
curious about poetry's lapsed place in today's cultural values.  "I'm 
afraid it verges on the poetic"--in that self-conscious disclaimer, this 
fellow is speaking to the group and its assumptions.  

Whence and whither the entrenched suspicion of Durrell's aesthetic in 
some parts of /Justine /and /Prospero's Cell/?  What literary or 
cultural assumptions does that opposition reveal?

Note that I do not want to characterize the "notes for landscape tones" 
as LD's whole aesthetic.  This is the same Durrell who gave us the tales 
of El Skob and /Mountolive /and /White Eagles Over Serbia/ and /Esprit 
de Corps/ and/ The Revolt of Aphrodite/ and /The Avignon Quintet/--all 
of which, I find, have distinctive shifts in Durrellian style and tone.

Charles_
_

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 08:01:59 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:01:59 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine: In the mood
Message-ID: <BA502567-0550-11DC-A663-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

A man of balanced moods and shoes.

http://www.moodschool.com/index.html


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 08:07:57 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:07:57 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine - in the mood
Message-ID: <8F857389-0551-11DC-A663-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Dr Anthony Durrell with friend.  It is not clear if the one on the left 
is wearing any shoes at all.

:Michael


http://www.moodschool.com/Images/gurub.jpg


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 08:35:17 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:35:17 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine - the cure
Message-ID: <6168BF45-0555-11DC-A663-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

This man will cure anything.

http://www.moodschool.com/Images/swimb.jpg


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 08:44:48 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:44:48 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine - the shoes
Message-ID: <B5685621-0556-11DC-A663-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I wonder if we can usefully bring The Manolo in on this.

http://shoeblogs.com/

:Michael


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 09:38:36 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:38:36 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
In-Reply-To: <464D3088.5080202@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <39D823B0-055E-11DC-986D-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

>>>

I was very interested in Dr Anthony Durrell's remarks about shoes and 
their link with our unrealised assumptions and prejudices.  I do not 
share the view that Anthony Durrell is a 'somethingpath who should be 
put in a mental straitjacket and fed dogfood'.

I hope we will hear more from Anthony Durrell.  As he rightly says the 
ideas of duality and the Cartesian psyche were the essence of Lawrence 
Durrell's work.  This is the stuff of Justine and the Quartet.

:Michael


>> Thanks for your interest in the infamous shoes which  I am pleased to 
>> hear left some imprint upon the DSC floor and perhaps on the psyche 
>> of those in the audience with the courage to temporarily suspend 
>> their monotonous subjectivity whilst listening creatively rather than 
>> critically... why are  our shoes typically of the same colour??...why 
>> are we, as visual creatures, driven towards chromatic symmetry across 
>> the midline??...the shoes carry more than a metaphor within a 
>> metaphor ... look to your foundations and perhaps the realisation 
>> that without tension their is no potential for change and hence no 
>> life...could shoe colour incite a discussion regarding the foundation 
>> of the dualistic nature of man...the question of what are the 
>> foundations of the cartesian psyche after all was the essence of LD 
>> life work!  ....anthony durrell


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 18 09:38:16 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:38:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Justine 2.x -- pedochromatophobia
Message-ID: <15930382.1179506296798.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Dear Dr. Durrell:

>A pleasure to meet you, especially since you're the subject of so many interesting stories.  Now, I do think you're real, although once I had my doubts.  A fear of colored feet?  Do I have the Greek right, more or less?  Now I wonder whom you could be talking about.  More of my friends would like to meet you.  Hence the cc.  Please continue to contribute to the Durrell List.  I find your voice and perspective refreshing.  I would, however, like more commentary on doubles and doppelganger.  Do they exist in real life or are they purely literary tropes?  I think they're real, like pookas.  I once saw one, an eight-foot tall rabbit.  I am not joking.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Bruce
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "durrell at telstra.com" <durrell at telstra.com>
>>Sent: May 17, 2007 10:06 PM
>>To: Bruce Redwine <bredwine1968 at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: pedochromatophobia
>>
>>Dear Bruce........i suspect this means that the coloured two shoes have 
>>stepped upon or threatened the equilibrium of some fragile and infantile 
>>ego shells... my email responses to the open forum are now being 
>>filtered....pedochromatophobia!!! ...a new psychopathology is 
>>born............regards anthony durrell


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 18 10:38:08 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:38:08 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine - in the mood
Message-ID: <21282863.1179509888442.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Photo taken in Simla or Tibet?  2005?  I see connections here.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>Sent: May 18, 2007 8:07 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] RG Justine - in the mood
>
>Dr Anthony Durrell with friend.  It is not clear if the one on the left 
>is wearing any shoes at all.
>
>:Michael
>
>
>http://www.moodschool.com/Images/gurub.jpg
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Fri May 18 10:53:12 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:53:12 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.5 -- Cohen's Death
In-Reply-To: <39D823B0-055E-11DC-986D-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <39D823B0-055E-11DC-986D-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <464DE808.3010803@wfu.edu>

So here I am, sitting at my desk, trying to dream up ways to redeem dear 
Brother Ass.  (I know--early on in our discussion of /Justine /I was 
among the lot most given to hitting the "sick man" while he limped 
walked about, lost among his deep thoughts and precious words.)  But 
here's to it.

For my part, Episode 2.5 (Cohen's Death) finds Darley showing something 
of his better side, or at least it finds Durrell allowing Darley to show 
his better side:

        The sudden irrational thought had come into my mind that here,
        in the death of Cohen, I could study my own love and its death. 
        That someone /in extremis/, calling for help to an old lover,
        could only elicit a cry of disgust--this terrified me[. . . .] 
        And in a little time perhaps, if she should call on me or I on
        her?  Would we turn from each other with a cry of emptiness and
        disgust?  I realized then the truth about all love: that it is
        an absolute which takes all or forfeits all.  The other
        feelings, compassion, tenederness, and so on, exist only on the
        periphery and belong to the constructions of society and habit. 
        But she herself--austere and merciless Aphrodite--is a pagan.

I think this might even have something to do with my sense that Durrell 
is a writer deeply interested in posthumous states of being--i.e. he 
narrates the attempts of later selves to carry out post mortems on their 
past selves, capturing the moment when "memory [. . .] catches sight of 
itself in a mirror" (/Balthazar /1.2).   Sometimes characters meditate 
on their own earlier selves, as when Darley or Clea look back.  Quite 
often the self-reflection is accmplished by foils.  Darley "comes after" 
(in several senses) his precursors Arnauti, Pursewarden, and Cohen.  All 
of that doubling might even recall Bruce and Dr. Durrell's curiosity 
about doppels and bogeys.  

As a Victorianist, I always also think of Rossetti's /House of Life/ 
sonnet sequence (1870, 1882), where the Lover finds continually 
discovers himself embracing Old Love and New Love.  (I read the Quartet 
first, so I know longer know if my Rossetti is Durrellian or my Durrell 
Rossettian.  My Old Love has changed my New Love, and vice versa.)  
Darley makes love with Justine and looks back on Melissa, often within a 
bedroom that is filled with Melissa's tawdry effects and suffused with 
Melissa's presence. 

                LIFE-IN-LOVE.

    Not in thy body is thy life at all
        But in this lady's lips and hands and eyes;
        Through these she yields thee life that vivifies
    What else were sorrow's servant and death's thrall.
    Look on thyself without her, and recall
        The waste remembrance and forlorn surmise
        That lived but in a dead-drawn breath of sighs
    O'er vanished hours and hours eventual.

    Even so much life hath the poor tress of hair
        Which, stored apart, is all love hath to show
        For heart-beats and for fire-heats long ago;
    Even so much life endures unknown, even where,
        Mid change the changeless night environeth,
        Lies all that golden hair undimmed in death.

And in sitting up beside Cohen's bed, in a moment of fellowship Darley 
realizes that the old furrier's death forecasts his own.

                LOST ON BOTH SIDES.

    As when two men have loved a woman well,
        Each hating each, through Love's and Death's deceit;
        Since not for either this stark marriage-sheet
    And the long pauses of this wedding-bell;
    Yet o'er her grave the night and day dispel
        At last their feud forlorn, with cold and heat;
        Nor other than dear friends to death may fleet
    The two lives left that most of her can tell:--

    So separate hopes, which in a soul had wooed
        The one same Peace, strove with each other long,
            And Peace before their faces perished since:
    So through that soul, in restless brotherhood,
        They roam together now, and wind among
            Its bye-streets, knocking at the dusty inns.

That last Rossetti sonnet rings like a precursor not only to Durrell's 
idea of Melissa's lovers, Darley and Cohen, but also as prescient of 
things and moods Cavafian--i.e., that one future day, Darley and Cohen 
will both find themselves set aside together, the cast-off furniture of 
love, shoved into some forgotten attic corner, "knocking about" who 
knows where.  The dreary purlieus of the mind, indeed. . . .

So how do others take Cohen's death?  For me, it has always marked a 
glimpsed change in Darley.  (I especially enjoy Darley "keeping company" 
with Cohen as he drifts through the "dense jungle" of the dream prose, 
with its "unknown fronds of trees.")  But is this episode still Darley 
engaging in massive solipsism?  And is there anything wrong with that 
solipsism, given the epicurean view of attraction and love presented in 
/Justine/?

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 18 11:31:21 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:31:21 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] unfortunately verging on the poetic
Message-ID: <31548203.1179513081353.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


>On 5/18/2007 10:00 AM, Michael Haag quoted a review on Prospero's Cell:
>
>> "It's not something I would have chosen myself -- no action, not much 
>> humor, no plot, and at times I'm afraid it verges on the poetic -- but 
>> it somehow works. 
>
>> Given all that, I can't begrudge him a little poetry.__

On 5/18/2007, Charles Sligh wrote:
>
>Thanks, Michael.  Like the covergirl blog entry on /Justine/, this is 
>another interesting note for measuring Durrell's position and potential 
>readership at present.  As someone who teaches Victorian Poetry--and not 
>just Victorian Poetry, but the poetry of Swinburne and Rossetti, who can 
>in some ways be read as writing "poetry for poetry's sake"--I am ever 
>curious about poetry's lapsed place in today's cultural values.  "I'm 
>afraid it verges on the poetic"--in that self-conscious disclaimer, this 
>fellow is speaking to the group and its assumptions.  
>
>Whence and whither the entrenched suspicion of Durrell's aesthetic in 
>some parts of /Justine /and /Prospero's Cell/?  What literary or 
>cultural assumptions does that opposition reveal?

                                * * * * *

I'm wonder if "speaking to the group and its assumptions" is not, in part at least, the result of the American Academy taking over the grooming of writers in its "creative literature" programs.  It's much easier for newcomers to get fiction published nowadays if they have the proper credentials, i.e., if he or she has an MFA from Iowa or Stanford or the likes.  Some publications even request such "proof" when submitting a piece.  (I hope the UK and Europe don't have this system.)  Another words, if young writers have the appropriate bona fides or stamps of approval, they readily find the doors of the club opened.  And what earns that stamp?  It's what you read in the big and little magazines.  All this is very circular, of course.  I'm suggesting, however, if there's a problem with the public's reading taste, the Academy might have something to do with it.  I doubt if Lawrence Durrell could get published today.  The same goes for James Joyce and a host of others.

Bruce


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 11:38:51 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:38:51 +0100
Subject: [ilds] unfortunately verging on the poetic
In-Reply-To: <31548203.1179513081353.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <061F009E-056F-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

It is interesting that a disproportionate number of published writers 
in America are British.  In other words, America obstructs writers, 
Britain encourages them.  They get published here first, and only then 
are they accepted by the American machine.  Things are getting bad in 
Britain, however; almost all British publishing companies have been 
taken over by American ones.

:Michael



On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 07:31  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:

>
>> On 5/18/2007 10:00 AM, Michael Haag quoted a review on Prospero's 
>> Cell:
>>
>>> "It's not something I would have chosen myself -- no action, not much
>>> humor, no plot, and at times I'm afraid it verges on the poetic -- 
>>> but
>>> it somehow works.
>>
>>> Given all that, I can't begrudge him a little poetry.__
>
> On 5/18/2007, Charles Sligh wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Michael.  Like the covergirl blog entry on /Justine/, this is
>> another interesting note for measuring Durrell's position and 
>> potential
>> readership at present.  As someone who teaches Victorian Poetry--and 
>> not
>> just Victorian Poetry, but the poetry of Swinburne and Rossetti, who 
>> can
>> in some ways be read as writing "poetry for poetry's sake"--I am ever
>> curious about poetry's lapsed place in today's cultural values.  "I'm
>> afraid it verges on the poetic"--in that self-conscious disclaimer, 
>> this
>> fellow is speaking to the group and its assumptions.
>>
>> Whence and whither the entrenched suspicion of Durrell's aesthetic in
>> some parts of /Justine /and /Prospero's Cell/?  What literary or
>> cultural assumptions does that opposition reveal?
>
>                                 * * * * *
>
> I'm wonder if "speaking to the group and its assumptions" is not, in 
> part at least, the result of the American Academy taking over the 
> grooming of writers in its "creative literature" programs.  It's much 
> easier for newcomers to get fiction published nowadays if they have 
> the proper credentials, i.e., if he or she has an MFA from Iowa or 
> Stanford or the likes.  Some publications even request such "proof" 
> when submitting a piece.  (I hope the UK and Europe don't have this 
> system.)  Another words, if young writers have the appropriate bona 
> fides or stamps of approval, they readily find the doors of the club 
> opened.  And what earns that stamp?  It's what you read in the big and 
> little magazines.  All this is very circular, of course.  I'm 
> suggesting, however, if there's a problem with the public's reading 
> taste, the Academy might have something to do with it.  I doubt if 
> Lawrence Durrell could get published today.  The same goes for James 
> Joyce and a host of others.
>
> Bruce
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri May 18 11:41:58 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:41:58 -0400
Subject: [ilds] unfortunately verging on the poetic
In-Reply-To: <061F009E-056F-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <31548203.1179513081353.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<061F009E-056F-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070518184137.DEPR13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>


>Things are getting bad in
>Britain, however; almost all British publishing companies have been
>taken over by American ones.

In my ignorance I thought it was the other way around, e.g. Penguin 
taking over the American market.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 11:47:03 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:47:03 +0100
Subject: [ilds] unfortunately verging on the poetic
In-Reply-To: <20070518184137.DEPR13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <2B69D272-0570-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Perhaps it is better to say that the demise of smaller publishers is 
not a healthy thing.  It harms diversity, eccentricity, personal 
enthusiasm, and turns publishers into fast food outlets.

:Michael



On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 07:41  pm, william godshalk wrote:

>
>> Things are getting bad in
>> Britain, however; almost all British publishing companies have been
>> taken over by American ones.
>
> In my ignorance I thought it was the other way around, e.g. Penguin
> taking over the American market.
>
> Bill
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk		*
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri May 18 11:55:54 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:55:54 -0400
Subject: [ilds] first the author, now the book
In-Reply-To: <2B69D272-0570-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070518184137.DEPR13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<2B69D272-0570-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070518185553.DHJZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Michael,

I am predicting the death of the book! My students do their reading 
on a computer. And the amazing thing is, they seem to like to.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 12:02:24 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:02:24 +0100
Subject: [ilds] first the author, now the book
In-Reply-To: <20070518185553.DHJZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <50032006-0572-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

How clumsy.  Cheaper and easier to stuff a paperback in your back 
pocket.  They will catch up eventually and discover how advanced the 
book really is.

:Michael



On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 07:55  pm, william godshalk wrote:

> Michael,
>
> I am predicting the death of the book! My students do their reading
> on a computer. And the amazing thing is, they seem to like to.
>
> Bill
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk		*
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 18 12:32:49 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:32:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] moderation
Message-ID: <25912174.1179516769503.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Amen.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: slighcl <slighcl at wfu.edu>
>Sent: May 18, 2007 6:39 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: [ilds] moderation
>
>Dear Subscribers:
>
>While I am always one to honor Durrell's vintry ethic--his laurels were 
>woven of the grapevine, quite obviously--I believe that at this moment 
>in the listserv's history we could use a bit of moderation.  Most 
>certainly we can still explore and discuss and debate what happened (or 
>still happens) at the Durrell School of Corfu, and any other topic 
>related to Lawrence Durrell or the peculiar intellectual culture that 
>has sprung up around his writings is always welcome in the list.  
>However, I really must insist that we not let the conversation suffer a 
>decline into /ad hominem/ remarks.   As El Skob would have observed, 
>things have gotten a bit "vivid" of late.  (Cf. "Scobie's Common Usage," 
>/Balthazar/) 
>
>In fact, I think the moderation will now be guided by Scobie's Rules.  
>"Mauve" is very fine.  Slip it on as necessary when you post late at 
>night.  Like the grape, it turns us back to Rabelais and Villon and "The 
>Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson," keeping us from becoming too 
>"Presbyterian" about these heady matters.  (Cf. Pursewarden's almanack 
>for alternate lexicon of the moderator's expressions.)  And a "spoof" or 
>two can be fun.  But no "septic" remarks, please.
>
>Scouting off elsewhere, to the tune of "Watchman, What of the Night?"
>
>Charles
>
>-- 
>**********************
>Charles L. Sligh
>Department of English
>Wake Forest University
>slighcl at wfu.edu
>**********************
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri May 18 13:53:26 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:53:26 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Now books on disk
In-Reply-To: <50032006-0572-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070518185553.DHJZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<50032006-0572-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070518205256.PDSR26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 13:59:33 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 21:59:33 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Now books on disk
In-Reply-To: <20070518205256.PDSR26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <ADA7AE06-0582-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

The Bibliotheca Alexandrina, the new Alexandria Library, has no books 
but lots of computer screens.  They say it is the biggest internet cafe 
in the world.  And that is about all it is.

:Michael


On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 09:53  pm, william godshalk wrote:

> As far as I can tell, my students don't like to listen to books. But 
> once they start listening to Hamlet rather than reading Hamlet, the 
> book will become a specialty item. In some ways the computer has taken 
> us back to manuscript culture, and in that words on a computer scroll 
> down, we are back to a pre-book culture of rolls. We simply have 
> better technology.
>
> I kinda look forward to being one of the last of the book readers.
>
> Anciently,
>
> Bill_______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri May 18 14:16:00 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:16:00 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- Darley's massive solipsism?
Message-ID: <20070518211530.EGFD13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From durrells at otenet.gr  Fri May 18 13:57:21 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 23:57:21 +0300
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
References: <20070517205605.92B3125@resin11.mta.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <00ee01c7998f$20fe2c90$0100000a@DSC01>

It will be clear from the below that Anthony Durrell is deranged - how could 
anyone believe that he actually said the below during his daft remarks at 
the DSC in 2005?
His remarks are, however, remarkably accurate. Yes, I have brought into 
existence an affective universe; yes, I have made an autocratic syntax; yes, 
we are, in the DSC, a self-verifying madness. Of course, I had to do this in 
order to create the School, because there was no-one else to whom I could 
entrust my vision of what a Durrell School (not only Lawrence, of course, 
but Gerald) should be. Many in the ILDS poo-poohed that vision, and I hope 
they would now acknowledge that what I did - however autocratic - was the 
right thing to do. But I also hope that my judgement (kritikos) will be 
judged in its own turn by the fact that I am now handing over the academic 
directorship to a new incumbent, who will, I trust, take the School to new 
heights and in new directions. All truth is relative (only an idiot would 
say otherwise) and all universes are affective. The truth of fictions is 
what we teach here, and there is no deception whatsoever in what we do - we 
just invite (with notable exceptions) intelligent people to discuss topics 
close to the lives, minds and works of the Durrell brothers, and we reward 
their contributions by publishing them and inviting their return. Does 
anyone disagree with that?
Richard Pine
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Durrell" <anthonydurrell at ausi.com>
To: <ilds at lists.uvic.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine


> Pine?s strategy ? for it is indeed a conscious ploy on his part ? is to 
> create relative truth by adroitly juxtaposing insults.  In order to 
> support the Durrell School which he brought into existence as an affective 
> universe, he has required an autocratic syntax which has at is core a 
> self-verifying madness.  In this way he tries to convince us of the truth 
> of his fictions, deceiving us into entering his world, confident that, 
> although he has removed the traditional safety nets of decorum, he has 
> replaced them with measures more satisfactory for an ?age of stress?: the 
> incongruence of language, meaning and configuration.  In his reference to 
> the ?semantic disturbance? he speaks of an examination of the inner world 
> of self and the outer world of matter: the atom split, the psyche split, 
> the Pineapple split.
>
> -- from the talk given by Dr Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> AUSI.COM at http://ausi.com - the BEST FREE EMAIL
>
> HOLIDAYS & FUN -- AUSITRAVEL at http://ausitravel.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 


From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 14:05:38 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 22:05:38 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Bibliotheca Alexandrina: bastion of learning: empty shelves
	and computer screens
Message-ID: <8741059E-0583-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

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From durrell at telstra.com  Fri May 18 14:13:00 2007
From: durrell at telstra.com (durrell at telstra.com)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 07:13:00 +1000
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine
In-Reply-To: <20070517205605.92B3125@resin11.mta.everyone.net>
References: <20070517205605.92B3125@resin11.mta.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <464E16DC.7090508@telstra.com>

Anthony Durrell wrote:
> Pine?s strategy ? for it is indeed a conscious ploy on his part ? is to create relative truth by adroitly juxtaposing insults.  In order to support the Durrell School which he brought into existence as an affective universe, he has required an autocratic syntax which has at is core a self-verifying madness.  In this way he tries to convince us of the truth of his fictions, deceiving us into entering his world, confident that, although he has removed the traditional safety nets of decorum, he has replaced them with measures more satisfactory for an ?age of stress?: the incongruence of language, meaning and configuration.  In his reference to the ?semantic disturbance? he speaks of an examination of the inner world of self and the outer world of matter: the atom split, the psyche split, the Pineapple split.  
>
> -- from the talk given by Dr Anthony Durrell at the Durrell School, Corfu
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> AUSI.COM at http://ausi.com - the BEST FREE EMAIL
>
> HOLIDAYS & FUN -- AUSITRAVEL at http://ausitravel.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>   

It appears that I have several dedicated doppelgangers!!! .....how 
wonderful to share in their insights and delights which clearly include 
ensuring that any would be stable DSC foundation is tested in typical LD 
style....ie.stirring his audience with an oversize spoon that he 
wrestles playfully from an 8foot rabbit....as is usual for LD his first 
targets to fall the hardest are those wannabe intellectuals and hollow 
invertebrates...why such dickless spineless creatures are wounded so 
deeply by LD's teasing is perhaps a testament to his formidable presence 
and their relative absence of presence.......I have also heard that a 
dopplengagnger of LD is exploring a parallel DSC which from time to time 
relocates to the dice on the rock at kalami bay........I stayed at the 
white house in corfu in '95 with michael durrell and friends....on 
several occasion our party encountered LD's doppelganger at the large 
dinner party table...what a wonderful time we had.......i feel a 
metaphysical pull to return to the white house and perhaps a small group 
of the LD society may choose to join in our nightly soirees?

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri May 18 14:21:19 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:21:19 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Now books on disk
In-Reply-To: <ADA7AE06-0582-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070518205256.PDSR26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<ADA7AE06-0582-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070518212059.PHZO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>


>The University of Cincinnati is much like the Library in Alexandria 
>-- many screens, few books. The books have been placed in  storage 
>at a central location. If you are on the trail and need a book, you 
>have to wait for three or four days. Very frustrating.

Bill

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 14:26:35 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 22:26:35 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Now books on disk
In-Reply-To: <20070518212059.PHZO26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <74AD6419-0586-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

At Alexandria they do not even have the books in storage.  They do not 
bother with books.  They just like having a big empty library.  That is 
what culture is all about.

:Michael




On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 10:21  pm, william godshalk wrote:

>
>> The University of Cincinnati is much like the Library in Alexandria
>> -- many screens, few books. The books have been placed in  storage 
>> at a central location. If you are on the trail and need a book, you
>> have to wait for three or four days. Very frustrating.
>
> Bill
>
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk		*
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Fri May 18 14:51:28 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:51:28 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
In-Reply-To: <20070518205256.PDSR26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
References: <20070518185553.DHJZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>	<50032006-0572-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070518205256.PDSR26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <464E1FE0.8010901@wfu.edu>

Arch-Paterian that I am, I wonder if we could move away from abstraction 
and discriminate the particulars.  What place does Lawrence Durrell hold 
in the History of the Book?  What could Durrell's connection with that 
great little independent publishing house Faber & Faber between 1937 and 
2007 show us about reading tastes and markets for publishing poetry, 
fiction, and travel narrative?  How do /Justine /and the other novels of 
the /Quartet /reveal an author working late in the History of the Novel 
with an uncanny awareness of the fuller capabilities of the Novel form? 

Regarding what the Academy does and what it fails to do:  I would like 
to think that there is a great deal to gain if those of us in the 
thinning ranks of Book Culture pass on to our students what we know 
about bibliography and textuality while also keeping up to date on the 
latest technology.  I would also like to think that we have in these new 
digital tools some stunning instruments to help us not merely to 
distribute and access knowledge, but also to learn quite a bit more 
about how those old containers of our knowledge--these wonderful 
Books--actually work.  (We take too much about what we do with them at 
face value.  "Our failure is to form habits.")  For a particular example 
of this last potential--or how the potential has been missed--just 
consider the stumbling gains of a digital initiative such as Project 
Gutenberg.  By flattening a text to just its linguistic codes--words on 
a particular page of a particular copy--that ambitious project has 
stripped away all of the myriad bibliographical, aesthetic, and 
historical codes by means of which readers make sense and meaning of 
books.  Gutenberg is in some senses just a better fax machine or 
telegraph, but it offers very little from which to learn more about /the 
books/ it has digested.   And the pleasure will never be there for me as 
a reader.  GoogleBooks is another mixed bag: the scanning is very choppy 
in quality, the rationale for what gets scanned and what does not get 
scanned seems inconsistent, and I observe many cases in which books are 
left poor crippled things because the scanners have lopped off important 
bibliographical data (half titles; versos of title pages; adverts; 
&c.).  Another particularized case, by extension:  Durrell's books are 
never just the words on the page.  Their meaning comes with the way we 
read the whole object--dust jackets, binding design, paper and typeface, 
along with the words in the text.  Think about the stunning presentation 
of the Wolpe-designed Faber issues.  Matter and form are there for me 
inextricably fused, and in so many ways I look at the early Faber issues 
and say to myself--via Rossetti--"thy soul I know not from thy body."  
Then think about reading /Justine /on a laptop screen in 12 point 
Courier.  "The sea is high again today, with a thrilling flush of wind.  
In the midst of winter you can feel the inventions of spring."  Aggh.  
Not impossible, and certainly not forbidden, but nowhere near the rich 
density of experience as the Faber 1.1 /Justine/.  That said, I look 
forward to the day when some enterprising and talented digital designer 
shows me /Justine /rediscovered anew in electronic form--not to the 
exclusion of the books that have been, but as an expression of the 
continued viability and enormous, untapped potentiality of that novel.  
We must learn more about the book and the new digital medium and create 
something new, something worthy of /Justine/.

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Fri May 18 15:06:45 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:06:45 -0400
Subject: [ilds] lost books
In-Reply-To: <74AD6419-0586-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <74AD6419-0586-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <464E2375.6060509@wfu.edu>

On 5/18/2007 5:26 PM, Michael Haag wrote:

>At Alexandria they do not even have the books in storage.  They do not 
>bother with books.  They just like having a big empty library.  That is 
>what culture is all about.
>  
>
>On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 10:21  pm, william godshalk wrote:
>  
>
>>>The University of Cincinnati is much like the Library in Alexandria
>>>-- many screens, few books. The books have been placed in  storage 
>>>at a central location. If you are on the trail and need a book, you
>>>have to wait for three or four days. 
>>>
Terrific and awful examples of the harmful confluence of a lack of 
institutional funding, bad library practice, and a gross 
misunderstanding of the Book and the new technologies.  The Durrell 
Collection at Carbdondale has suffered from a similar ignorance and 
misunderstanding.  That what is still the premier gathering of 
Durrelliana should be kept in remote warehouse storage without 
expectation of a return to easy access is certainly indefensible.  Here 
is our latest report:

>         The building known as Morris Library is a skeletonized hulk,
>         open to the weather, with a few people trying to work on the
>         first floor and the basement, with the periodicals and new
>         books, being flooded by water and mud[. . . .] Access to
>         collections is by request only, with a minumum 4 hr wait[. . .
>         .]  Encourage everyone to come by to use the Durrell holdings,
>         as the dean does not want any patrons coming, because he
>         thinks everything anyone needs is already on the internet! 
>         Patrons coming must bring or rent a car, as the building is
>         located out in the country and there is no where to stay or
>         eat within walking distance.


But we must organize, communicate better, help those who make the 
mistakes to learn what they are missing, or if necessary, displace them. 

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Fri May 18 15:17:46 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 23:17:46 +0100
Subject: [ilds] lost books
In-Reply-To: <464E2375.6060509@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <9B12BD0A-058D-11DC-BC83-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Better that Southern Illinois University sells the Durrell collection.  
It was bad enough getting there even when everything was in the Morris 
Library.  Easier to get to Tikrit than to Carbondale.

:Michael



On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 11:06  pm, slighcl wrote:

> On 5/18/2007 5:26 PM, Michael Haag wrote:
>
> At Alexandria they do not even have the books in storage.  They do not
> bother with books.  They just like having a big empty library.  That is
> what culture is all about.
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 10:21  pm, william godshalk wrote:
>
>
> The University of Cincinnati is much like the Library in Alexandria
> -- many screens, few books. The books have been placed in  storage 
> at a central location. If you are on the trail and need a book, you
> have to wait for three or four days.
>
> Terrific and awful examples of the harmful confluence of a lack of 
> institutional funding, bad library practice, and a gross 
> misunderstanding of the Book and the new technologies.? The Durrell 
> Collection at Carbdondale has suffered from a similar ignorance and 
> misunderstanding.? That what is still the premier gathering of 
> Durrelliana should be kept in remote warehouse storage without 
> expectation of a return to easy access is certainly indefensible.? 
> Here is our latest report:
>
> The building known as Morris Library is a skeletonized hulk, open to 
> the weather, with a few people trying to work on the first floor and 
> the basement, with the periodicals and new books, being flooded by 
> water and mud[. . . .] Access to collections is by request only, with 
> a minumum 4 hr wait[. . . .]? Encourage everyone to come by to use the 
> Durrell holdings, as the dean does not want any patrons coming, 
> because he thinks everything anyone needs is already on the internet!? 
> Patrons coming must bring or rent a car, as the building is located 
> out in the country and there is no where to stay or eat within walking 
> distance.
>
>
> But we must organize, communicate better, help those who make the 
> mistakes to learn what they are missing, or if necessary, displace 
> them.?
>
> Charles
>
> -- 
> **********************
> Charles L. Sligh
> Department of English
> Wake Forest University
> slighcl at wfu.edu
> **********************
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri May 18 16:12:57 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:12:57 -0400
Subject: [ilds] septic moderation?
In-Reply-To: <25912174.1179516769503.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <25912174.1179516769503.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070518231237.ESEJ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Was my brief fantasy "septic?" What did I say that's septic?

Bill


> >In fact, I think the moderation will now be guided by Scobie's Rules.
> >"Mauve" is very fine.  Slip it on as necessary when you post late at
> >night.  Like the grape, it turns us back to Rabelais and Villon and "The
> >Ballad of the Good Lord Nelson," keeping us from becoming too
> >"Presbyterian" about these heady matters.  (Cf. Pursewarden's almanack
> >for alternate lexicon of the moderator's expressions.)  And a "spoof" or
> >two can be fun.  But no "septic" remarks, please.

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Fri May 18 17:35:29 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:35:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine - in the mood
Message-ID: <12896308.1179534930061.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I agree with Dr. Anthony Durrell on Lawrence Durrell, man and writer.  But my notions of Lawrence Durrell's difficulties are quite inchoate.  I have neither the expertise nor the training to do more than express a certain unease about LD's work and how he used it deal with his own unrest.  Does Dr. Durrell have a theory about his namesake, one which is easily compressed and understood by lay people?  A synopsis would do.  That should get a discussion going.

Bruce


>On Bruce Redwine wrote:
>> Photo taken in Simla or Tibet?  2005?  I see connections here.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>   
>>> From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>>> Sent: May 18, 2007 8:07 AM
>>> To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>>> Subject: [ilds] RG Justine - in the mood
>>>
>>> Dr Anthony Durrell with friend.  It is not clear if the one on the left 
>>> is wearing any shoes at all.
>>>
>>> :Michael
>>>
http://www.moodschool.com/Images/gurub.jpg
>>>
On 5/18/2007, Dr. Anthony Durrell wrote:

>Bruce thankyou for the first kind words I have encountered from the LD 
>discussion group....... the photo was taken at the APA philadelphia 
>2002....the american psychiatric association had invited a GURU to speak 
>on meditation as a means of stemming the growing rates of mental illness 
>in the usa....yes the guru is the one on the right!......LD's writing 
>are the products of an insightful, deeply meditative and rationally 
>disturbed man.....I would be delighted to engage a sub group of LD's 
>disciples who are interested in exploring his metaphysical perspectives 
>and how these philosophies are expounded through his writings..AD


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Fri May 18 20:28:37 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 23:28:37 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.5 -- Cohen and Darley wed
In-Reply-To: <464DE808.3010803@wfu.edu>
References: <39D823B0-055E-11DC-986D-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<464DE808.3010803@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070519032808.NGIN4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From ilyas.khan at crosby.com  Sat May 19 06:30:15 2007
From: ilyas.khan at crosby.com (Ilyas Khan)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:30:15 +0800
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
In-Reply-To: <464E1FE0.8010901@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <C2751CE7.1B24F%ilyas.khan@crosby.com>

Charles, I, for one, shudder at the thought of losing the book. As some of
you are aware, I am a collector (I specialise in LD, Henry James, Robertson
Davies and George Gissing), with a very particular focus on Durrell. The
thrill of seeing something as beautiful as The Ballade of Slow Decay,
preserved like some ancient life form, on rusted staples, complete with
Durrell?s inscription, scribbled, and obviously done in a hurry, could never
be replaced. It is unique. Long may we cherish and take pleasure from the
form that has persisted for so many centuries. Sure, we might be aided and
abetted along the way as technology gets better, but hopefully the book will
never be replaced. 

And as we all, surely, will agree, its not just the fascination of rare
first editions or manuscripts that grab our attention. I still have the
first copy of AQ that I ever read. Dog eared, tea stained, ragged and tired,
its still my choice for the annual re-read that invariably comes about
during my Montauk fishing holiday.

 For those of you who are in London (where I keep most of my stuff) and who
share my love of these beautiful creations, drop me a line and I would be
delighted to show you some of the more special Durrell items.

Ilyas 


On 5/19/07 5:51 AM, "slighcl" <slighcl at wfu.edu> wrote:

> Arch-Paterian that I am, I wonder if we could move away from abstraction and
> discriminate the particulars.  What place does Lawrence Durrell hold in the
> History of the Book?  What could Durrell's connection with that great little
> independent publishing house Faber & Faber between 1937 and 2007 show us about
> reading tastes and markets for publishing poetry, fiction, and travel
> narrative?  How do Justine and the other novels of the Quartet reveal an
> author working late in the History of the Novel with an uncanny awareness of
> the fuller capabilities of the Novel form?
> 
> Regarding what the Academy does and what it fails to do:  I would like to
> think that there is a great deal to gain if those of us in the thinning ranks
> of Book Culture pass on to our students what we know about bibliography and
> textuality while also keeping up to date on the latest technology.  I would
> also like to think that we have in these new digital tools some stunning
> instruments to help us not merely to distribute and access knowledge, but also
> to learn quite a bit more about how those old containers of our
> knowledge--these wonderful Books--actually work.  (We take too much about what
> we do with them at face value.  "Our failure is to form habits.")  For a
> particular example of this last potential--or how the potential has been
> missed--just consider the stumbling gains of a digital initiative such as
> Project Gutenberg.  By flattening a text to just its linguistic codes--words
> on a particular page of a particular copy--that ambitious project has stripped
> away all of the myriad bibliographical, aesthetic, and historical codes by
> means of which readers make sense and meaning of books.  Gutenberg is in some
> senses just a better fax machine or telegraph, but it offers very little from
> which to learn more about the books it has digested.   And the pleasure will
> never be there for me as a reader.  GoogleBooks is another mixed bag: the
> scanning is very choppy in quality, the rationale for what gets scanned and
> what does not get scanned seems inconsistent, and I observe many cases in
> which books are left poor crippled things because the scanners have lopped off
> important bibliographical data (half titles; versos of title pages; adverts;
> &c.).  Another particularized case, by extension: Durrell's books are never
> just the words on the page.  Their meaning comes with the way we read the
> whole object--dust jackets, binding design, paper and typeface, along with the
> words in the text.  Think about the stunning presentation of the
> Wolpe-designed Faber issues. Matter and form are there for me inextricably
> fused, and in so many ways I look at the early Faber issues and say to
> myself--via Rossetti--"thy soul I know not from thy body."  Then think about
> reading Justine on a laptop screen in 12 point Courier.  "The sea is high
> again today, with a thrilling flush of wind.  In the midst of winter you can
> feel the inventions of spring."  Aggh.  Not impossible, and certainly not
> forbidden, but nowhere near the rich density of experience as the Faber 1.1
> Justine.  That said, I look forward to the day when some enterprising and
> talented digital designer shows me Justine rediscovered anew in electronic
> form--not to the exclusion of the books that have been, but as an expression
> of the continued viability and enormous, untapped potentiality of that novel.
> We must learn more about the book and the new digital medium and create
> something new, something worthy of Justine.
> 
> Charles


-------------- next part --------------
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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sat May 19 12:29:21 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:29:21 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
Message-ID: <1179602961.464f5011bd18d@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>:

> Long may we cherish and take pleasure from the
> form that has persisted for so many centuries. Sure, we might be aided and
> abetted along the way as technology gets better, but hopefully the book will
> never be replaced.

I think that collectors on the list such as Bill Godshalk and myself would
agree.  I do not hesitate at all to admit that my interest in owning every
impression of the Faber printings of the _Quartet_ extends beyond the scholarly
and the bibliographical and into fetish and nostalgia.  (I do not cede those
two terms to those who find them negative.)  There is a great deal of
associative history tied into these colored volumes, recalling for me people
and places I have known and the times in which Durrell lived and wrote, which I
have only known at a remove.

Here is the original question, Ilyas: What do you find especially attractive or
revealing about Durrell's books _as books_.  I would be interested in your
response as you are someone who has like me spent a deal of time and money on
collecting Durrell's textual remains.  What do you find in them, in their
design, that sets them apart from other twentieth-century books?

My own working assumption is that Durrell himself was aware of the value (in
several senses) of the book and textuality.  Take the bookishness of the
_Quartet_ for a limited but specific example--proofs, notebooks, diaries,
novels within the novel, the Interlinear, the Workpoints and various
appendices, epigraphs, and other machinery of the book abound.  And then
someone like yourself or Bill might be kind enough to type the last sentences
of Durrell's address to the London Book Fair, where he discusses the special
role of collectors.  I am away from my copy, but I think that others here on
the list could benefit by hearing what our author has to say about the subject
of the book.  (Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can help!)

Charles

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 12:55:33 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:55:33 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <1179602961.464f5011bd18d@squirrel.wfu.edu>
References: <1179602961.464f5011bd18d@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070519195502.PMFG4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

A shelf of books and a shelf of good wine: this is all that is needed 
to orchestrate the good life. But your books and your wine must be 
choice. I hope that this accurately interprets the meaning behind the 
Book Fair."  ~~ Lawrence Durrell




At 03:29 PM 5/19/2007, you wrote:
>Quoting Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>:
>
> > Long may we cherish and take pleasure from the
> > form that has persisted for so many centuries. Sure, we might be aided and
> > abetted along the way as technology gets better, but hopefully 
> the book will
> > never be replaced.
>
>I think that collectors on the list such as Bill Godshalk and myself would
>agree.  I do not hesitate at all to admit that my interest in owning every
>impression of the Faber printings of the _Quartet_ extends beyond 
>the scholarly
>and the bibliographical and into fetish and nostalgia.  (I do not cede those
>two terms to those who find them negative.)  There is a great deal of
>associative history tied into these colored volumes, recalling for me people
>and places I have known and the times in which Durrell lived and 
>wrote, which I
>have only known at a remove.
>
>Here is the original question, Ilyas: What do you find especially 
>attractive or
>revealing about Durrell's books _as books_.  I would be interested in your
>response as you are someone who has like me spent a deal of time and money on
>collecting Durrell's textual remains.  What do you find in them, in their
>design, that sets them apart from other twentieth-century books?
>
>My own working assumption is that Durrell himself was aware of the value (in
>several senses) of the book and textuality.  Take the bookishness of the
>_Quartet_ for a limited but specific example--proofs, notebooks, diaries,
>novels within the novel, the Interlinear, the Workpoints and various
>appendices, epigraphs, and other machinery of the book abound.  And then
>someone like yourself or Bill might be kind enough to type the last sentences
>of Durrell's address to the London Book Fair, where he discusses the special
>role of collectors.  I am away from my copy, but I think that others here on
>the list could benefit by hearing what our author has to say about the subject
>of the book.  (Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can help!)
>
>Charles
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sat May 19 13:42:01 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:42:01 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <20070519195502.PMFG4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
References: <1179602961.464f5011bd18d@squirrel.wfu.edu>
	<20070519195502.PMFG4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <1179607321.464f611923a5b@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>:

> A shelf of books and a shelf of good wine: this is all that is needed
> to orchestrate the good life. But your books and your wine must be
> choice. I hope that this accurately interprets the meaning behind the
> Book Fair."  ~~ Lawrence Durrell
>

Thanks, Bill!  I always think of Durrell's words as I walk into the Russell
Hotel and browse the dealers' stands, sometimes coming across one of his own
choice books.

CLS

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 13:50:47 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:50:47 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <1179607321.464f611923a5b@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <9ED6AC14-064A-11DC-B659-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

My guess is that the Book Fair, in this case, is the London Antiquarian 
Book Fair.  The London Book Fair is something else altogether, 
inhabited by the many of the big British and other commercial 
publishers, an attempt to emulate the frenetic Frankfurt Book Fair, 
neither being the sort of place would have Durrell had in mind.

:Michael



On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 09:42  pm, Charles Sligh wrote:

> Quoting william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>:
>
>> A shelf of books and a shelf of good wine: this is all that is needed
>> to orchestrate the good life. But your books and your wine must be
>> choice. I hope that this accurately interprets the meaning behind the
>> Book Fair."  ~~ Lawrence Durrell
>>
>
> Thanks, Bill!  I always think of Durrell's words as I walk into the 
> Russell
> Hotel and browse the dealers' stands, sometimes coming across one of 
> his own
> choice books.
>
> CLS
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 13:59:54 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:59:54 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <9ED6AC14-064A-11DC-B659-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <1179607321.464f611923a5b@squirrel.wfu.edu>
	<9ED6AC14-064A-11DC-B659-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070519205933.PRBS4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sat May 19 14:12:24 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 17:12:24 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <9ED6AC14-064A-11DC-B659-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <9ED6AC14-064A-11DC-B659-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1179609144.464f68388838b@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:

> My guess is that the Book Fair, in this case, is the London Antiquarian
> Book Fair.

Just to verify Michael's guess, here is the citation:

_The Fifth Antiquarian Book Fair: A Handlist of Exhibitors Introduced by
Lawrence Durrell_. London: Antiquarian Booksellers? Association, 1962.

Keeping it "choice."

CLS

From ilyas.khan at crosby.com  Sat May 19 14:05:37 2007
From: ilyas.khan at crosby.com (Ilyas Khan)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:05:37 +0800
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
In-Reply-To: <1179602961.464f5011bd18d@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <C27587A1.1B26B%ilyas.khan@crosby.com>

What it all boils down to, really, is that Durrell wrote for people who
would read (to state the obvious) his books (as opposed to blogs or audio
tapes or email commentaries). That is really the key. In that day and age,
when he was at his peak, there was no possible alternative to distributing
the written word, but than the book (with the exception of serialisation in
magazines), and authors who wrote with such tactile awareness as Durrell
(there are others, not many, but they do exist)- with an intuition about
what it felt like to fall in love with the words on a page; what it must
feel like to own something that becomes a part of one's family; and
ultimately, what it means to be able to think of a book as something
specific, something real that can be held and observed - came to nurture the
links between the literary process and the physical form of the book.

I also believe that in some ways Durrell, and others from the post first
world war period through to the 70's and even the 80's, were the first
authors who could dream of reaching a truly vast audience through their
books. This, in turn, led to some celebrity, but it must also have
influenced the relationship between the creative act of writing, and the end
product itself.

I don't know that I can explain it in any other way. I am sure there are
opinions that might be articulated very differently, but the whole basis
upon which LD would have been aware of the "value" of the book is this
relationship that our children may never fully appreciate if computers are
the medium through which they encounter and enjoy fine writing.

On a more personal note, my love affair (fetish ?) with rare and valuable
books (valuable in many different ways) started with the usual need to
associate with someone or something that I felt very good about, but has
moved quickly to encompass a whole variety of things including a sometimes
obsessive need to own a particular item. I collect Henry James, for example,
and I now focus all my energy on the physical quality of the book and the
importance of the inscription. When I started out, I was focused on getting
actual true first editions, and would not consider relative quality until
much later.

When it comes to Robertson Davies, who shares, with Durrell, an immense
degree of sheer learning that can be bought to bear on the most simple and
straightforward writing, I wanted to get the absolute original dust covers,
and have sacrificed other factors.

If anyone has an articulate way of describing why we get so worked up about
rare books, inscribed books, m/s and other literary paraphernalia then
please help me out here.

Ilyas


On 5/20/07 3:29 AM, "Charles Sligh" <slighcl at wfu.edu> wrote:

> Quoting Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>:
> 
>> Long may we cherish and take pleasure from the
>> form that has persisted for so many centuries. Sure, we might be aided and
>> abetted along the way as technology gets better, but hopefully the book will
>> never be replaced.
> 
> I think that collectors on the list such as Bill Godshalk and myself would
> agree.  I do not hesitate at all to admit that my interest in owning every
> impression of the Faber printings of the _Quartet_ extends beyond the
> scholarly
> and the bibliographical and into fetish and nostalgia.  (I do not cede those
> two terms to those who find them negative.)  There is a great deal of
> associative history tied into these colored volumes, recalling for me people
> and places I have known and the times in which Durrell lived and wrote, which
> I
> have only known at a remove.
> 
> Here is the original question, Ilyas: What do you find especially attractive
> or
> revealing about Durrell's books _as books_.  I would be interested in your
> response as you are someone who has like me spent a deal of time and money on
> collecting Durrell's textual remains.  What do you find in them, in their
> design, that sets them apart from other twentieth-century books?
> 
> My own working assumption is that Durrell himself was aware of the value (in
> several senses) of the book and textuality.  Take the bookishness of the
> _Quartet_ for a limited but specific example--proofs, notebooks, diaries,
> novels within the novel, the Interlinear, the Workpoints and various
> appendices, epigraphs, and other machinery of the book abound.  And then
> someone like yourself or Bill might be kind enough to type the last sentences
> of Durrell's address to the London Book Fair, where he discusses the special
> role of collectors.  I am away from my copy, but I think that others here on
> the list could benefit by hearing what our author has to say about the subject
> of the book.  (Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can help!)
> 
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 14:58:51 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 17:58:51 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
In-Reply-To: <C27587A1.1B26B%ilyas.khan@crosby.com>
References: <1179602961.464f5011bd18d@squirrel.wfu.edu>
	<C27587A1.1B26B%ilyas.khan@crosby.com>
Message-ID: <20070519215820.TJVT26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sat May 19 15:00:49 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:00:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
Message-ID: <16421619.1179612049741.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Sligh <slighcl at wfu.edu>
>Sent: May 19, 2007 12:29 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] Durrell & the Book

>
>I think that collectors on the list such as Bill Godshalk and myself would
>agree.  I do not hesitate at all to admit that my interest in owning every
>impression of the Faber printings of the _Quartet_ extends beyond the scholarly
>and the bibliographical and into fetish and nostalgia.  (I do not cede those
>two terms to those who find them negative.)  There is a great deal of
>associative history tied into these colored volumes, recalling for me people
>and places I have known and the times in which Durrell lived and wrote, which I
>have only known at a remove.
>
                               * * * * *

Charles, well said and true.  You gave a talk on this topic at Victoria, 2006.  Will it get published in the conference proceedings?  I wonder how far your "fetish and nostalgia" can be extrapolated.  Is this true of all authors and their devoted readers?  Or is this largely unique to Durrell?  Is there something bewitching about his writing and the experience of it which then attaches to the physical object, the book as artifact?  Of course, Durrell himself talks about something similar.  Lots of objects in the Quartet have a similar nostalgic investment.  I recall Darley talking about a person's "effects" and how appropriate the legal term is, when describing what a person leaves behind.  Was he talking about the deaths of Melissa or Pursewarden?

Bruce

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 15:29:32 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 18:29:32 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
In-Reply-To: <16421619.1179612049741.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <16421619.1179612049741.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070519222925.PYIA4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Sat May 19 15:03:17 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 00:03:17 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <1179609144.464f68388838b@squirrel.wfu.edu>
References: <9ED6AC14-064A-11DC-B659-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<1179609144.464f68388838b@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <464F7425.2000803@interdesign.fr>

I didn't konw this book fair so did a Google search:

Can't find anything in London on the first three 
pages. Bottom of page 5 before I found anything: 0 
matches on Durrell! SADNESS!

directions to NJABF
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The 57th Street Children's Book fair can be 
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Connexion
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Rechercher dans ces r?sultats | Outils 
linguistiques | Conseils de recherche

Page d'accueil de Google - Publicit? - Solutions 
d'entreprise - ? propos de Google

?2007 Google




Rechercher dans ces r?sultats | Outils 
linguistiques | Conseils de recherche

Page d'accueil de Google - Publicit? - Solutions 
d'entreprise - ? propos de Google

?2007 Google

Charles Sligh wrote:

> Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:
> 
> 
>>My guess is that the Book Fair, in this case, is the London Antiquarian
>>Book Fair.
> 
> 
> Just to verify Michael's guess, here is the citation:
> 
> _The Fifth Antiquarian Book Fair: A Handlist of Exhibitors Introduced by
> Lawrence Durrell_. London: Antiquarian Booksellers? Association, 1962.
> 
> Keeping it "choice."
> 
> CLS
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 

From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Sat May 19 15:07:00 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 00:07:00 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <1179609144.464f68388838b@squirrel.wfu.edu>
References: <9ED6AC14-064A-11DC-B659-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<1179609144.464f68388838b@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <464F7504.8050308@interdesign.fr>

Finally found "OLYMPIA BOOK FAIR 2007" early June.
No search engine!
Is this the one you talked about?

Charles Sligh wrote:

> Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:
> 
> 
>>My guess is that the Book Fair, in this case, is the London Antiquarian
>>Book Fair.
> 
> 
> Just to verify Michael's guess, here is the citation:
> 
> _The Fifth Antiquarian Book Fair: A Handlist of Exhibitors Introduced by
> Lawrence Durrell_. London: Antiquarian Booksellers? Association, 1962.
> 
> Keeping it "choice."
> 
> CLS
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 15:55:54 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 23:55:54 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book and the Book Fair
In-Reply-To: <464F7504.8050308@interdesign.fr>
Message-ID: <193F9F20-065C-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

It seems to have gone down the drain.  Bob Geldof is the patron.

http://www.olympiabookfair.com/

:Michael



On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 11:07  pm, Marc Piel wrote:

> Finally found "OLYMPIA BOOK FAIR 2007" early June.
> No search engine!
> Is this the one you talked about?
>
> Charles Sligh wrote:
>
>> Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:
>>
>>
>>> My guess is that the Book Fair, in this case, is the London 
>>> Antiquarian
>>> Book Fair.
>>
>>
>> Just to verify Michael's guess, here is the citation:
>>
>> _The Fifth Antiquarian Book Fair: A Handlist of Exhibitors Introduced 
>> by
>> Lawrence Durrell_. London: Antiquarian Booksellers? Association, 1962.
>>
>> Keeping it "choice."
>>
>> CLS
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>



From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 17:02:41 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:02:41 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- and the anomalous green fingerstall
Message-ID: <20070520000210.TUAL26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070519/99a8b3cb/attachment.html 

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 17:30:38 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 01:30:38 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- and the anomalous green fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <20070520000210.TUAL26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <5517C56A-0669-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

It must have something to do with Nessim.  His reading.

:Michael


On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 01:02  am, william godshalk wrote:

> Bruce writes:
>
> Charles, well said and true.? You gave a talk on this topic at 
> Victoria, 2006.? Will it get published in the conference proceedings?? 
> I wonder how far your "fetish and nostalgia" can be extrapolated.? Is 
> this true of all authors and their devoted readers?? Or is this 
> largely unique to Durrell?? Is there something bewitching about his 
> writing and the experience of it which then attaches to the physical 
> object, the book as artifact?? Of course, Durrell himself talks about 
> something similar.? Lots of objects in the Quartet have a similar 
> nostalgic investment.? I recall Darley talking about a person's 
> "effects" and how appropriate the legal term is, when describing what 
> a person leaves behind.? Was he talking about the deaths of Melissa or 
> Pursewarden?
>
>
> "a black patch, a green fingerstall, a watch-key and a couple of 
> dispossessed wedding-rings . . . ." (the last page of Justine). I know 
> Charlie has mentioned these objects before:
>
> "The slow unreality of time begins to grip them, blurring the 
> outlines--so that sometimes I wonder whether these pages record the 
> actions of real human beings; or whether this is not simply the story 
> of a few inanimate objects which precipitated a drama around them--I 
> mean a black patch, a watch-key and a couple of dispossessed wedding 
> rings. . . ." (4.4)
> --- with out the anomalous but interesting "green fingerstall" -- 
> which is certainly there in more than one edition of Justine.
>
> I just checked and this is the only reference to a green fingerstall 
> in Justine. I haven't checked the other novels.
>
> So why is this artefact there? And why is it gone?
>
> Bill
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 17:47:44 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:47:44 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- and the anomalous green fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <5517C56A-0669-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070520000210.TUAL26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<5517C56A-0669-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070520004723.INHZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Michael suggests: "It must have something to do with Nessim.  His reading."

When I was a youngster, I noticed that banker tellers wore 
fingerstalls. But Nessim doesn't like to use cash. He uses checks: 
"Nevertheless his debts were punctually honoured, and every morning 
Selim his secretary was sent out with the car" to pay his debts.

The OED defines fingerstall as "A cover or protection for the finger, 
usually of leather, e.g. the finger of a glove, used in some 
handicrafts, in dissection, or when the finger is injured or 
diseased." The "dissection" may indicate Balthazar? The "handicrafts" 
just might suggest that Clea wears one.

But I remain puzzled.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 17:56:16 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 01:56:16 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- and the anomalous green fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <20070520004723.INHZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <E9BBE90C-066C-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

black patch = Capodistria
watch-key = Balthazar
wedding-rings = Cohen
fingerstall = ?

The first three objects relate to men; my assumption is that the fourth 
object does too.  The obvious fourth man is Nessim.  What does Nessim 
do?  He does a lot of reading.  A fingerstall might be useful in that, 
for turning the pages.  Or maybe that is not its function at all; but I 
still go for Nessim.  There may have been a line in an earlier version 
of the MS that would have told us about this.  Possibly Charles has it 
on his computer.  Charles?

:Michael


On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 01:47  am, william godshalk wrote:

> Michael suggests: "It must have something to do with Nessim.  His 
> reading."
>
> When I was a youngster, I noticed that banker tellers wore
> fingerstalls. But Nessim doesn't like to use cash. He uses checks:
> "Nevertheless his debts were punctually honoured, and every morning
> Selim his secretary was sent out with the car" to pay his debts.
>
> The OED defines fingerstall as "A cover or protection for the finger,
> usually of leather, e.g. the finger of a glove, used in some
> handicrafts, in dissection, or when the finger is injured or
> diseased." The "dissection" may indicate Balthazar? The "handicrafts"
> just might suggest that Clea wears one.
>
> But I remain puzzled.
>
> Bill
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk		*
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 18:10:26 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:10:26 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- whose green fingerstall?
In-Reply-To: <E9BBE90C-066C-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070520004723.INHZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<E9BBE90C-066C-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070520011049.TYQE26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Michael, yes, your list is suggestive (as they say). I just checked 
the other three novels of the AQ and -- nada. This is the only use of 
fingerstall. Yes, one could be of help to a reader, i.e. Nessim. I 
suppose Scobie would not need one. Pursewarden? Maybe a person who 
writes his novels longhand might need one. Did Durrell perhaps?

Okay, Charles, when you get back to the virtual world, give us your knowledge.

Bill

At 08:56 PM 5/19/2007, you wrote:
>black patch = Capodistria
>watch-key = Balthazar
>wedding-rings = Cohen
>fingerstall = ?
>
>The first three objects relate to men; my assumption is that the fourth
>object does too.  The obvious fourth man is Nessim.  What does Nessim
>do?  He does a lot of reading.  A fingerstall might be useful in that,
>for turning the pages.  Or maybe that is not its function at all; but I
>still go for Nessim.  There may have been a line in an earlier version
>of the MS that would have told us about this.  Possibly Charles has it
>on his computer.  Charles?
>
>:Michael
>
>
>On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 01:47  am, william godshalk wrote:
>
> > Michael suggests: "It must have something to do with Nessim.  His
> > reading."
> >
> > When I was a youngster, I noticed that banker tellers wore
> > fingerstalls. But Nessim doesn't like to use cash. He uses checks:
> > "Nevertheless his debts were punctually honoured, and every morning
> > Selim his secretary was sent out with the car" to pay his debts.
> >
> > The OED defines fingerstall as "A cover or protection for the finger,
> > usually of leather, e.g. the finger of a glove, used in some
> > handicrafts, in dissection, or when the finger is injured or
> > diseased." The "dissection" may indicate Balthazar? The "handicrafts"
> > just might suggest that Clea wears one.
> >
> > But I remain puzzled.
> >
> > Bill
> > ***************************************
> > W. L. Godshalk                *
> > Department of English         *
> > University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> > Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> > 513-281-5927
> > ***************************************
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 18:19:13 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 02:19:13 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- whose green fingerstall?
In-Reply-To: <20070520011049.TYQE26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <1E697B02-0670-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

By the way, my suggestion that there may have been a line about 
fingerstalls in an earlier MS version is not unconnected with the fact 
that the fingerstall gets deleted from Justine later on -- certainly it 
is not there in the 1962 omnibus AQ.  Clearly it took Claude some time 
to remember that though she had written about a fingerstall long ago, 
she had not included the fingerstall when she submitted the MS in 
Durrell's name to Faber and Faber.  She could be so sloppy, that Claude.

:Michael



On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 02:10  am, william godshalk wrote:

> Michael, yes, your list is suggestive (as they say). I just checked
> the other three novels of the AQ and -- nada. This is the only use of
> fingerstall. Yes, one could be of help to a reader, i.e. Nessim. I
> suppose Scobie would not need one. Pursewarden? Maybe a person who
> writes his novels longhand might need one. Did Durrell perhaps?
>
> Okay, Charles, when you get back to the virtual world, give us your 
> knowledge.
>
> Bill
>
> At 08:56 PM 5/19/2007, you wrote:
>> black patch = Capodistria
>> watch-key = Balthazar
>> wedding-rings = Cohen
>> fingerstall = ?
>>
>> The first three objects relate to men; my assumption is that the 
>> fourth
>> object does too.  The obvious fourth man is Nessim.  What does Nessim
>> do?  He does a lot of reading.  A fingerstall might be useful in that,
>> for turning the pages.  Or maybe that is not its function at all; but 
>> I
>> still go for Nessim.  There may have been a line in an earlier version
>> of the MS that would have told us about this.  Possibly Charles has it
>> on his computer.  Charles?
>>
>> :Michael
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 01:47  am, william godshalk wrote:
>>
>>> Michael suggests: "It must have something to do with Nessim.  His
>>> reading."
>>>
>>> When I was a youngster, I noticed that banker tellers wore
>>> fingerstalls. But Nessim doesn't like to use cash. He uses checks:
>>> "Nevertheless his debts were punctually honoured, and every morning
>>> Selim his secretary was sent out with the car" to pay his debts.
>>>
>>> The OED defines fingerstall as "A cover or protection for the finger,
>>> usually of leather, e.g. the finger of a glove, used in some
>>> handicrafts, in dissection, or when the finger is injured or
>>> diseased." The "dissection" may indicate Balthazar? The "handicrafts"
>>> just might suggest that Clea wears one.
>>>
>>> But I remain puzzled.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> ***************************************
>>> W. L. Godshalk                *
>>> Department of English         *
>>> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>>> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>>> 513-281-5927
>>> ***************************************
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ILDS mailing list
>>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk		*
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 18:15:38 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:15:38 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <20070520011049.TYQE26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.emai
	l.uc.edu>
References: <20070520004723.INHZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<E9BBE90C-066C-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070520011049.TYQE26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <20070520011927.IPKU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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URL: http://lists.uvic.ca/pipermail/ilds/attachments/20070519/dfe701de/attachment.html 

From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sat May 19 18:21:04 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:21:04 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- and the anomalous green fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <E9BBE90C-066C-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <E9BBE90C-066C-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1179624064.464fa2807a787@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:

> There may have been a line in an earlier version
> of the MS that would have told us about this.  Possibly Charles has it
> on his computer.  Charles?

We are getting closer.  The answer is in the texts and the variants.  But I
would have thought we could have heard something from Beatrice on this--she is
a fingerstall scholar.

Beatrice Skordili, Syracuse University, USA: "The Case of the Missing Green
Fingerstall: Durrell's Quasi-Relativistic Poetics"

Beatrice?

Charles

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 18:54:16 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 02:54:16 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <20070520011927.IPKU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <046A1F1E-0675-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I have that article.  We are referred to Clea, page 705 of the 1962 
omnibus AQ, where Balthazar talks of having slashed his wrists: 'It is 
strange to what extent small inanimate objects can sometimes be 
responsible for the complete breakdown of an affective field ... It was 
the green fingerstall that disgusted him finally.  He could not bear to 
feel a hand moving on his body whose index finger was sheathed in a 
fingerstall.  Yet I had to wear it, for my finger had begun to 
suppurate again; you know I have a little patch of eczema which plays 
me up from time to time, usually when I am run down or over-excited'.

I might mention parenthetically that Durrell himself suffered from 
eczema.

Beatrice points out that the fingerstall was removed from the 1962 AQ, 
while on the other hand Clea first edition first impression has no 
reference to the fingerstall, but it is there in Clea in the 62 AQ.  
Durrell has added a new paragraph -- if you look at Clea 1.1 (probably 
still the case in US editions) you will find it on page 69, between the 
para ending 'misdeeds' and the para beginning 'Then of course'.  So 
Durrell has removed the reference to fingerstall from Justine to Clea 
in the 62 AQ.

What to make of this, asks Beatrice.  She sees this as a symptom of a 
repression, ie repressed at Justine, pops out at Clea.  'Like a 
symptom, it calls attention to itself by being about the way smptoms 
reveal unconscious motivations.  As a symptom, it is a metaphor for 
Durrell's "slip" that reveals itself the way eczema breaks through the 
scab of methylene blue.  And finally, as a symptom, it indicates the 
deep current of libidinal force in Durrell's text, which is always tied 
up in the quiddity (as he loved to call it) of objects.'

I have not read the article so I cannot say how this point is being 
used.  It might prove to be interesting.

My own view, however, about what is going on here is that Durrell 
realised that the fingerstall was serving no purpose in Justine but 
when he came to delete it, he came up with the idea of putting it to 
use on Balthazar's finger.  Whether it had begun on B's finger in some 
early draft of Justine I cannot say.  But this does seem to be the sort 
of economical thing writers do.

:Michael




On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 02:15  am, william godshalk wrote:

>
> Skordili, Beatrice.
>
> ---. "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall: Durrell's 
> Quasi-Relativistic Poetics." Lawrence Durrell Revisited : Lawrence 
> Durrell Revisit?. Ed. Corinne Alexandre-Garner. Nanterre, France: 
> Universit? Paris X, 2002. 155-66.
>
> Unfortunately I do not have this volume.
>
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 19:11:31 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 22:11:31 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <046A1F1E-0675-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070520011927.IPKU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<046A1F1E-0675-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070520021140.ITDZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>


>We are referred to Clea, page 705 of the 1962 omnibus AQ, where 
>Balthazar talks of having slashed his wrists: 'It is strange to what 
>extent small inanimate objects can sometimes be responsible for the 
>complete breakdown of an affective field ... It was the green 
>fingerstall that disgusted him finally.  He could not bear to feel a 
>hand moving on his body whose index finger was sheathed in a 
>fingerstall.  Yet I had to wear it, for my finger had begun to 
>suppurate again; you know I have a little patch of eczema which 
>plays me up from time to time, usually when I am run down or over-excited."

In the Penguin editions now in print, this passage is gone.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 19:16:48 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 03:16:48 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <20070520021140.ITDZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <2A0AB628-0678-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I do not think it was ever there in any American editions.  Only in the 
Faber 1962 omnibus AQ.  Why on earth you guys read American editions, 
except out of paleographical interest, beats me.

:Michael



On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 03:11  am, william godshalk wrote:

>
>> We are referred to Clea, page 705 of the 1962 omnibus AQ, where
>> Balthazar talks of having slashed his wrists: 'It is strange to what
>> extent small inanimate objects can sometimes be responsible for the
>> complete breakdown of an affective field ... It was the green
>> fingerstall that disgusted him finally.  He could not bear to feel a
>> hand moving on his body whose index finger was sheathed in a
>> fingerstall.  Yet I had to wear it, for my finger had begun to
>> suppurate again; you know I have a little patch of eczema which
>> plays me up from time to time, usually when I am run down or 
>> over-excited."
>
> In the Penguin editions now in print, this passage is gone.
>
> Bill
> ***************************************
> W. L. Godshalk		*
> Department of English         *
> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> 513-281-5927
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sat May 19 19:36:23 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 22:36:23 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <2A0AB628-0678-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <2A0AB628-0678-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1179628583.464fb427b10b4@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:

> I do not think it was ever there in any American editions.  Only in the
> Faber 1962 omnibus AQ.

But it was there in the American Dutton 1962 omnibus Quartet, which was printed
with the Fabers in the UK.  Neither Dutton nor its successor Penguin USA have
kept the omnibus in print.  The answer, I have assumed, is that selling 4
volumes at US $14 is far more lucrative than an omnibus at US $19.

> Why on earth you guys read American editions,
> except out of paleographical interest, beats me.

But that is the way the rights of publication have left things--different
versions of the Quartet for each side of the Atlantic.

The best strategy would be to convince Penguin USA to reissue the (Dutton)
omnibus.

"moving from a tomb"

Charles

From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 19:41:24 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 03:41:24 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <1179628583.464fb427b10b4@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <99B1D2A2-067B-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

The answer lies not in the stars, but in Abebooks.com where you can get 
anything you want.

:Michael



On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 03:36  am, Charles Sligh wrote:

> Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:
>
>> I do not think it was ever there in any American editions.  Only in 
>> the
>> Faber 1962 omnibus AQ.
>
> But it was there in the American Dutton 1962 omnibus Quartet, which 
> was printed
> with the Fabers in the UK.  Neither Dutton nor its successor Penguin 
> USA have
> kept the omnibus in print.  The answer, I have assumed, is that 
> selling 4
> volumes at US $14 is far more lucrative than an omnibus at US $19.
>
>> Why on earth you guys read American editions,
>> except out of paleographical interest, beats me.
>
> But that is the way the rights of publication have left 
> things--different
> versions of the Quartet for each side of the Atlantic.
>
> The best strategy would be to convince Penguin USA to reissue the 
> (Dutton)
> omnibus.
>
> "moving from a tomb"
>
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sat May 19 19:48:55 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 22:48:55 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <99B1D2A2-067B-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <99B1D2A2-067B-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1179629335.464fb717962fd@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>:

> The answer lies not in the stars, but in Abebooks.com where you can get
> anything you want.

Darn that internet.  Just when you fellows had me convinced I should give it up.
. . .

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 20:24:23 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 23:24:23 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <2A0AB628-0678-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070520021140.ITDZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<2A0AB628-0678-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070520032437.QUJQ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

I can never remember that Penguin is an American publisher. I 
remember the good old days.

At 10:16 PM 5/19/2007, you wrote:
>I do not think it was ever there in any American editions.  Only in the
>Faber 1962 omnibus AQ.  Why on earth you guys read American editions,
>except out of paleographical interest, beats me.
>
>:Michael
>
>
>
>On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 03:11  am, william godshalk wrote:
>
> >
> >> We are referred to Clea, page 705 of the 1962 omnibus AQ, where
> >> Balthazar talks of having slashed his wrists: 'It is strange to what
> >> extent small inanimate objects can sometimes be responsible for the
> >> complete breakdown of an affective field ... It was the green
> >> fingerstall that disgusted him finally.  He could not bear to feel a
> >> hand moving on his body whose index finger was sheathed in a
> >> fingerstall.  Yet I had to wear it, for my finger had begun to
> >> suppurate again; you know I have a little patch of eczema which
> >> plays me up from time to time, usually when I am run down or
> >> over-excited."
> >
> > In the Penguin editions now in print, this passage is gone.
> >
> > Bill
> > ***************************************
> > W. L. Godshalk                *
> > Department of English         *
> > University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
> > Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
> > 513-281-5927
> > ***************************************
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILDS mailing list
> > ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> > https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 20:29:29 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 04:29:29 +0100
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
In-Reply-To: <20070520032437.QUJQ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <5147F636-0682-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

Global warming.  Penguins go with the floe.

:Michael


On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 04:24  am, william godshalk wrote:

> I can never remember that Penguin is an American publisher. I
> remember the good old days.
>
> At 10:16 PM 5/19/2007, you wrote:
>> I do not think it was ever there in any American editions.  Only in 
>> the
>> Faber 1962 omnibus AQ.  Why on earth you guys read American editions,
>> except out of paleographical interest, beats me.
>>
>> :Michael


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sat May 19 20:30:51 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 23:30:51 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- dream on,
 ye bibliographers: green  fingerstalls sing thee . . . .
In-Reply-To: <20070520032437.QUJQ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email
	.uc.edu>
References: <20070520021140.ITDZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<2A0AB628-0678-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070520032437.QUJQ4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <20070520033056.UIAS26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Well, Durrell is a bibliographer's dream. I'm working on the 
Oldcastle puzzle in Shakespeare, and Durrell makes Falstaff and/or 
Oldcastle seem simplistic.

Bill
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From sumantranag at gmail.com  Sun May 20 02:51:22 2007
From: sumantranag at gmail.com (Sumantra Nag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:21:22 +0530
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 66_Arnauti and his works
References: <mailman.7.1179514802.1646716.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
Message-ID: <001c01c79ac4$6ebb3aa0$0201a8c0@intel>

Ed Hungerford wrote:
-----------------------------------------------

However, the character of
the minor novelist Arnauti should also be investigated.  He was known
to have been working on a psycho-biography called the House of Hosnani
at the time he disappears from literary history.   Still, his Moeurs
shows considerable achievements as a novelist of psychoanalytic
leaning, and his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to
obtain, being out of print for 50 or more years, should be resurrected
sometime.   I personally always found Arnauti's writing percipient and
rewarding, if rather unbalanced.   Anyone as totally immersed in the
culture of Alexandria, as Arnauti was, and once married to Justine,
would have known Melissa also, and perhaps in his earlier fiction we
might obtain some glimpses of her youth and upbringing, if indeed she
actually lived in Alexandria at that period.   Has anyone recently seen
these early works of Arnauti in a used book store?  ---
---------------------------------------------------------------

At the risk of seeming extremely naive - and sheltering behind the excuse of being a non-academic in the field of literature - may I ask for more clarification about the reference to Arnauti and his works - ..

"his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to obtain, being out of print for 50 or more years..." and 

"[has] anyone recently seen these early works of Arnauti in a used book store?" 

Has something been said tongue-in cheek, which I have not properly comprehended? I always 
thought Arnauti was a completely fictional creation in "Justine", but a major literary creation of Lawrence Durrell.

Seeing the intense sparring and the concentrated exchanges on very specific topics by the moderators and the towering writers on this discussion forum, I wonder whether I can reasonably expect a response to this query which may appear to be the result of an untutored exposure to the pages under discussion!! 

Sumantra
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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sun May 20 06:53:43 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 09:53:43 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Arnauti as a "bibliographic ghost"
In-Reply-To: <001c01c79ac4$6ebb3aa0$0201a8c0@intel>
References: <mailman.7.1179514802.1646716.ilds@lists.uvic.ca>
	<001c01c79ac4$6ebb3aa0$0201a8c0@intel>
Message-ID: <465052E7.6040201@wfu.edu>

On 5/20/2007 5:51 AM, Sumantra Nag wrote:

>  
> Has something been said tongue-in cheek, which I have not properly 
> comprehended? I always
> thought Arnauti was a completely fictional creation in "Justine", but 
> a major literary creation of Lawrence Durrell.


You are on target, Sumantra.  Ed's magnificent post about Arnauti and 
the high-spirited chattering responding to it are good examples of what 
the Elizabethans would have called "a game of vapours."  The  pretended 
search for the pretend books of Arnauti (heresy!  whatever happened to 
willful suspension of disbelief?) are prime examples of what 
bibliographers call "bibliographic ghosts."  Sometimes these imaginary 
works are created by means of careless cataloging and accident.  Other 
times, bibliographic ghosts are the work of skilled forgers or scholars, 
who are often more kin, sometimes less than kind.  Cecil Lang, the great 
Victorianist and editor of the letters of Tennyson, Arnold, and 
Swinburne, had a soft-spot for dropping these hoaxes into the record.  
Durrell, like Borges, also was fond of imaginary writers and pretend 
books--thus Arnauti and Pursewarden and their late echoes in the 
/Quintet/. 

But I have a question for you, Sumantra:  How did you first realize that 
Arnauti and Purswarden were not "real"?  That question is serious, and 
the answer could get to the bottom of the "tricks" that Durrell is "up 
to" in his books.

No more apologies, Sumantra.  We are all readers of Lawrence Durrell 
here, all equal opportunists serving under the Master.

Charles

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sun May 20 07:02:44 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 07:02:44 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine --
Message-ID: <2416888.1179669764656.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The answer to that Charles has already answered -- we're fixated on the first text of our first reading.  It's like Linus of Peanuts and his security blanket.  (I may have the names wrong -- but you know what I mean.)

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Haag <michaelhaag at btinternet.com>
>Sent: May 19, 2007 7:16 PM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Subject: Re: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
>
>I do not think it was ever there in any American editions.  Only in the 
>Faber 1962 omnibus AQ.  Why on earth you guys read American editions, 
>except out of paleographical interest, beats me.
>
>:Michael
>
>
>
>On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 03:11  am, william godshalk wrote:
>
>>
>>> We are referred to Clea, page 705 of the 1962 omnibus AQ, where
>>> Balthazar talks of having slashed his wrists: 'It is strange to what
>>> extent small inanimate objects can sometimes be responsible for the
>>> complete breakdown of an affective field ... It was the green
>>> fingerstall that disgusted him finally.  He could not bear to feel a
>>> hand moving on his body whose index finger was sheathed in a
>>> fingerstall.  Yet I had to wear it, for my finger had begun to
>>> suppurate again; you know I have a little patch of eczema which
>>> plays me up from time to time, usually when I am run down or 
>>> over-excited."
>>
>> In the Penguin editions now in print, this passage is gone.
>>
>> Bill
>> ***************************************
>> W. L. Godshalk		*
>> Department of English         *
>> University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
>> Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
>> 513-281-5927
>> ***************************************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ILDS mailing list
>> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds


From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sun May 20 07:08:36 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (slighcl)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 10:08:36 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- fixated readers
In-Reply-To: <2416888.1179669764656.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2416888.1179669764656.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <46505664.4090904@wfu.edu>

On 5/20/2007 10:02 AM, Bruce Redwine wrote:

>The answer to that Charles has already answered -- we're fixated on the first text of our first reading.  
>
See attached scan for LD reader attached to his books.

CLS

-- 
**********************
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
Wake Forest University
slighcl at wfu.edu
**********************

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From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sun May 20 07:11:09 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 07:11:09 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 66_Arnauti and his works
Message-ID: <22717663.1179670269778.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Sumantra has a good point, and I too am puzzled.  Let's hear from the towering writers.  Look down and speak.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
>From: Sumantra Nag <sumantranag at gmail.com>
>Sent: May 20, 2007 2:51 AM
>To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca
>Cc: eahunger at charter.net
>Subject: Re: [ilds] ILDS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 66_Arnauti and his works
>
>Ed Hungerford wrote:
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>However, the character of
>the minor novelist Arnauti should also be investigated.  He was known
>to have been working on a psycho-biography called the House of Hosnani
>at the time he disappears from literary history.   Still, his Moeurs
>shows considerable achievements as a novelist of psychoanalytic
>leaning, and his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to
>obtain, being out of print for 50 or more years, should be resurrected
>sometime.   I personally always found Arnauti's writing percipient and
>rewarding, if rather unbalanced.   Anyone as totally immersed in the
>culture of Alexandria, as Arnauti was, and once married to Justine,
>would have known Melissa also, and perhaps in his earlier fiction we
>might obtain some glimpses of her youth and upbringing, if indeed she
>actually lived in Alexandria at that period.   Has anyone recently seen
>these early works of Arnauti in a used book store?  ---
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>At the risk of seeming extremely naive - and sheltering behind the excuse of being a non-academic in the field of literature - may I ask for more clarification about the reference to Arnauti and his works - ..
>
>"his earlier novels, too, though obscure and difficult to obtain, being out of print for 50 or more years..." and 
>
>"[has] anyone recently seen these early works of Arnauti in a used book store?" 
>
>Has something been said tongue-in cheek, which I have not properly comprehended? I always 
>thought Arnauti was a completely fictional creation in "Justine", but a major literary creation of Lawrence Durrell.
>
>Seeing the intense sparring and the concentrated exchanges on very specific topics by the moderators and the towering writers on this discussion forum, I wonder whether I can reasonably expect a response to this query which may appear to be the result of an untutored exposure to the pages under discussion!! 
>
>Sumantra


From bskordil at otenet.gr  Sun May 20 08:20:58 2007
From: bskordil at otenet.gr (Beatrice Skordili)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 18:20:58 +0300
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall
References: <20070520011927.IPKU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu><046A1F1E-0675-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070520021140.ITDZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <009001c79af2$7818c1c0$267c4b55@lacan>

It is with great regret that I enter the discussion here--having promised 
myself that I wouldn't; but I stepped away from my computer for a couple of 
days and I find, not only that a text of mine is being discussed, but that 
some inaccuracies have crept into the discussion, which, for the sake of my 
personal sense of "the honor of thinking" and the kind of textual work I do, 
I cannot leave unanswered.
    We have returned full circle to the question of editions which led me to 
abstain from discussions in the first place, then! This is another return in 
other words of "the repressed," which to forestall any misapprehension, I do 
not mean in psychologistic terms, but "textually" (and I can provide further 
detail if this fails to clarify the matter); in other words, things were 
left unsaid in the last round, and now the issue resurfaces in a different 
context to claim its just returns!
    To begin with then, to my knowledge, the only two versions of the 
_Alexandria Quartet_ in publication and wide circulation are the four-volume 
Dutton which is identical with the Penguin in everything including the 
pagination, which in fact contains the _Justine_ passage about the "green 
fingerstall" (J 245) and the Faber omnibus which removes the "fingerstall" 
from "Justine" and includes the passage referring to it in "Clea" (AQ 705). 
I choose therefore to use these two for the simple reason that I am 
interested in an audience which can actually test the validity of my 
interpretation and maybe make use of my points in a discussion of the text 
in a classroom where students can actually "see" the text--otherwise, what 
is the point? I think it is naive to assume that general readers for the 
most part will have the kind of stamina required to engage in the kind of 
textual sleuthing required to appreciate the subtlety of some of Durrell's 
effects (and implicit arguments) created by the play between editions or 
will be interested in reading articles about them.

    It is my understanding that the kind of corrections made from the Faber 
1.1 to the Dutton are in the nature of genuine printer's errors (or in any 
case fairly minor and not relevant to my purposes), whereas the kind of 
"printer's errors" (and other effects) introduced by Durrell himself from 
the beginning are "emended" only in the 1962 Faber. The decision to use the 
one or the other version (to answer an older question) is one that involves 
the critic (not the ordinary reader) in a kind of choice which also involves 
the two programmatic texts prepared for each edition: the "Note" to 
_Balthazar_ for the former and the "Note" to the AQ for the latter. In "The 
Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall" I BEGIN(since this is essentially a 
conference paper rather than a fully worked article) to outline the reasons 
why it is important to be aware of the SUBSTANTIVE changes effected from one 
to the other version and which, furthermore (I will add now), establish the 
validity (and the need for continued publication) of the four-volume text as 
an alternate version of the Quartet which is not to be viewed as "corrected" 
by the 1962 omnibus, but to be read in conjunction--very much as the four 
original volumes were to be read in conjunction with each other. So while 
the 1962 version seems to "correct" some of the wild "quantum" plays of the 
four-volume text, it also seems to perpetuate what I call the "project" of 
the Quartet at another level. Given the very nature of Durrell's various 
proclamations about the Quartet in interviews (which I perused exhaustively 
for clues)--the "relativity proposition", "Mercator's transformation", the 
various negatives printed on the same sheet, the various cameras running 
simultaneously, the four-color flexography of color publications, etc, etc, 
etc.--I believe that it is not such a wild speculation on my part to think 
that when Durrell did put in the "corrections" in 1962 he MIGHT have had 
some notion of, in fact, producing NOT a definitive text, but another 
"version" of the Quartet "to keep critics busy for 300 years" to use Joyce's 
words. Not only do I think this is an legitimate contention, but I also 
document the several ways in which these alternate versions are, in fact, 
produced in "The Case of the Missing Green Fingerstall", to begin with, and 
in my later work which is not prepared for publication yet (sorry!). So 
enough already with being treated as a moron because I CHOOSE to have a 
different opinion from the advocates of a definitive Durrell--advocates, I 
might add, who seem (Perish the thought!) to try to circumscribe a 
disciplinary turf of their own convenience! (Foucault would have a 
field-day!)

    Now, for a pet peeve: We are told by Michael in response to my argument, 
which he undertook to summarize:

`    "My own view, however, about what is going on here is that Durrell 
realized that the fingerstall was serving no purpose in Justine but when he 
came to delete it, he came up with the idea of putting it to use on 
Balthazar's finger. Whether it had begun on B's finger in some early draft 
of Justine I cannot say. But this does seem to be the sort of economical 
thing writers do."

This in my view is merely stating the obvious. Why did Durrell "come up with 
the idea of putting it to use on Balthazar's finger"? For "economical" 
reasons? What is this supposed to mean? That he liked the detail and didn't 
want to waste it?  Durrell added two short passages to the AQ 1962, for very 
good narrative and artistic reasons both. I can discuss the first if anyone 
is interested (it concerns a goldfish bowl). The second passage (referring 
to the green fingerstall) as I clearly point out picks up the discourse of 
"slips" and oversights of the "Note" he attaches to the 1962 edition to 
EXPLAIN why he "restored" those passages. (This means he did not 
spontaneously produce this passage to attach to Balthazar, but that it 
referred to Balthazar to begin with! Now Durrell may play with words and 
create double-entendres all the time, but he does not "misrepresent" things; 
so, "restore" he did. This is confirmed incidentally by the fact that the 
other passage is also "restored"; and the proof for this lies in Richard's 
_Mindscape_ when he quotes from Durrell's working notebooks for the Quartet 
and this passage is included [I will provide references if asked, but I 
don't have the text handy]. I--being a poor "subaltern" scholar--did not 
have the opportunity to go to Carbondale so I get my information 
second-hand! Lucky for me, Richard did a lot of this careful work!) To 
return to my point, however, in the passage Durrell "restores," he talks 
about the kind of "repression" that results in "slips" of the sort he is 
correcting when he in fact adds this passage. So the very passage is not an 
inert addition, but "symptomatic" and hence a means of interrogating the act 
that makes it available to us--i.e. its "restoration"!
    The very act of disregarding all of the various comments about "slips", 
"parapraxes," "screen memories" and the whole menagerie of Freudian effects 
that Durrell appropriated for the Quartet and reducing him to a paragon of 
the self-asserting ego--everything he stood against (see the beginning 
chapters of _A Key to Modern British Poetry_)--is what is entailed in this 
attempt to produce a "definitive", "mono-lingual", version of the Quartet of 
the "self-evident".
    I should also add, to clarify my position, that I am not in favor of 
"anything goes" in criticism and interpretation. Rather, I am very much in 
favor of exhaustive textual evidence, rather than biographical anecdote, or 
sheer fanciful speculation--though (carefully substantiated) speculation 
there must be, if the text is to remain relevant and hence read. Not that 
textual work is immune to criticism or can be done exhaustively (it can even 
prove misleading, unless one is prepared to go to some good length), but it 
is the only way to maintain a level of academic integrity vis-a-vis other 
critics (who will always find something to add or correct to move the 
discussion forward), students (who will have their day in going through a 
text--and should) and the text itself, which provides the field for our 
endeavor and always manages to surpass our highest expectations and still 
surprise. As for me, I have not known Durrell; I am not in direct 
communication with Durrell's ghost; hence, I am not interested in what he 
thought; I am only interested in what he wrote and this is the only thing on 
which I presume to write myself!

I apologize to those who have had to wade through this rather long response. 
I don't believe in making extended arguments in email lists (they are hasty 
by definition, compared to the long hours one labors to make oneself 
understood in papers and articles). Like Rousseau, I feel, all too often 
that I need to absent myself from society to make myself the better 
understood (present) through my writing--what little I produce. To that end, 
if Bill or anyone else is still interested in reading "The Case of the Green 
Fingerstall" (incomplete though I find it), given that Corrine's journal is 
not easy to come by, I will be happy to send my Word file of the published 
text as an attachment--let me know.


Beatrice


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sun May 20 09:11:43 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 09:11:43 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Arnauti as real
Message-ID: <20570041.1179677503431.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

On 5/20/07, Charles Sligh asks,
>
>But I have a question for you, Sumantra:  How did you first realize that 
>Arnauti and Purswarden were not "real"?  That question is serious, and 
>the answer could get to the bottom of the "tricks" that Durrell is "up 
>to" in his books.

                                             * * * * *

My answer.  At the time of my primal event with M. Durrell (not Dr. Durrell), age sixteen of my youth, I never thought any "person" in his book was real.  They were all fictional characters.  I naively assumed then that fiction was by definition unreal.  Now, of course, after discussions on the List, I know that none of us is real.

Bruce


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sun May 20 10:29:46 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:29:46 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Arnauti as real as Durrell
In-Reply-To: <20570041.1179677503431.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.s
	a.earthlink.net>
References: <20570041.1179677503431.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070520172951.SLIX4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

Only the City is real. But the distinction between a fictive 
character and a dead person is interesting to consider over a glass 
of choice wine. Neither is around to define himself or herself. The 
fictive character exists on paper, and the dead person now only 
exists on paper (give or take some ashes). Well, paper or some other 
recording material. Their parts can however be acted by actors.

So Durrell and Arnauti are equally nonexistent.

Bill (lookin for a fight)
***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sun May 20 10:40:12 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 18:40:12 +0100
Subject: [ilds] Arnauti as real
In-Reply-To: <20570041.1179677503431.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2918C3D7-06F9-11DC-9409-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

My answer is that when I first Durrell, which was in the form of The 
Alexandria Quartet, I felt that behind many of the characters there 
were real people.  That was probably just the effect of Durrell writing 
in the first person.  Nevertheless that sense stayed with me.  In time 
I discovered that a great deal of Durrell's creations in the Quartet -- 
characters, settings, events -- were based on or in some way owed their 
origin to real characters, settings and events.  There is nothing 
surprising about this.  Writers do it all the time.  And of course what 
writers also do is base creations on themselves.  I do have the feeling 
that Durrell is always writing about his world and himself, and that he 
is desperately trying to escape both.  And failing.

:Michael



On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 05:11  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:

> On 5/20/07, Charles Sligh asks,
>>
>> But I have a question for you, Sumantra:  How did you first realize 
>> that
>> Arnauti and Purswarden were not "real"?  That question is serious, and
>> the answer could get to the bottom of the "tricks" that Durrell is "up
>> to" in his books.
>
>                                              * * * * *
>
> My answer.  At the time of my primal event with M. Durrell (not Dr. 
> Durrell), age sixteen of my youth, I never thought any "person" in his 
> book was real.  They were all fictional characters.  I naively assumed 
> then that fiction was by definition unreal.  Now, of course, after 
> discussions on the List, I know that none of us is real.
>
> Bruce
>
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>


From bredwine1968 at earthlink.net  Sun May 20 11:15:20 2007
From: bredwine1968 at earthlink.net (Bruce Redwine)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:15:20 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [ilds] Arnauti as real as Durrell
Message-ID: <31228166.1179684920729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

On 5/20/07, William Godshalk writes:
>
>Only the City is real. But the distinction between a fictive 
>character and a dead person is interesting to consider over a glass 
>of choice wine. Neither is around to define himself or herself. The 
>fictive character exists on paper, and the dead person now only 
>exists on paper (give or take some ashes). Well, paper or some other 
>recording material. Their parts can however be acted by actors.
>
>So Durrell and Arnauti are equally nonexistent.
>
>Bill (lookin for a fight)

                            * * * * *

I'll just swing a couple of wild punches and jump out of the ring (today is afternoon High Tea with a bunch of lawyers, ugh).  This talk about real and not real is very deep water, and we probably need Dr. Durrell to throw out a life preserver.  The "many fictions of ourselves," or some such (Jamie can provide the proper quotation and citation to the poetry) -- that's my starting point.  And since we're playing in Durrell's Universe, solipsistic or otherwise, we might as well play his game and live in the "kingdom of your imagination" (Clea, end of "novel").  It's utterly futile, in my opinion, to argue, with Scholastic seriousness, about what is real and not with respect to LD's fiction and his life.  Even as a pimply sixteen year old I knew that Durrell's "Alexandria" only truly existed in his head.  I willingly entered that world and welcomed the seduction.  Moreover, through our discussions, we are adding to the Master's fictive world.  He always knew that.  This is not to say that a biographer, like Michael Haag, can't do the great research involved, point out the many connections between fact and fiction, show all the ramifications and permutations thereof, and then provide an explanation for all those interconnections.  Yes, he can.  That's fascinating and enjoyable -- an art in itself, a genre unto itself.  But it's always going to be some kind of fiction.  M. Durrell will always remain elusive and keep some part of himself to himself.  He will surely triumph in the end.  End of story.

Bruce



From leadale at mts.net  Sun May 20 12:00:11 2007
From: leadale at mts.net (Lea Stogdale)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:00:11 -0500
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
Message-ID: <01C79AE7.2F7973C0.leadale@mts.net>

I found the discussion bemoaning the impending obsolescence of "The Book" 
interesting if Luddite. Here, I'm concerned with reading by the proletarian 
masses rather than collectors. (Will "The Book" become an item collected as 
are lunch boxes or Barbie dolls or MG Midgets?) Is the general public still 
reading "The Book"? As the numbers of books published each year continues 
to increase; as the number of large book stores, including independent ones 
such as McNally Robinson, continue to increase, and as CBC Radio One 
devoted its entire "Sunday Morning" three hour program today to "The Book", 
the answer must be Yes. And in the form of paper rather than on screen. 
 HYPERLINK http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/ 
http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/
And this will be available as a podcast for those interested:  HYPERLINK 
http://www.cbc.ca/podcasting/ http://www.cbc.ca/podcasting/
or in iTunes.

Jamie, did you ever hear the interview conducted with LD by the previous 
host of the CBC radio afternoon show several years ago? It was out of 
Vancouver. Is this interview available? Is it worthwhile?
Lea

Quoting Ilyas Khan <ilyas.khan at crosby.com>:

> Long may we cherish and take pleasure from the
> form that has persisted for so many centuries. Sure, we might be aided 
and
> abetted along the way as technology gets better, but hopefully the book 
will
> never be replaced.

I think that collectors on the list such as Bill Godshalk and myself would
agree.  I do not hesitate at all to admit that my interest in owning every
impression of the Faber printings of the _Quartet_ extends beyond the 
scholarly
and the bibliographical and into fetish and nostalgia.  (I do not cede 
those
two terms to those who find them negative.)  There is a great deal of
associative history tied into these colored volumes, recalling for me 
people
and places I have known and the times in which Durrell lived and wrote, 
which I
have only known at a remove.


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.5/812 - Release Date: 5/19/07 1:52 
PM


From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sun May 20 12:23:17 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:23:17 -0400
Subject: [ilds] also the world of books
In-Reply-To: <2918C3D7-06F9-11DC-9409-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20570041.1179677503431.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<2918C3D7-06F9-11DC-9409-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070520192351.WISQ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sun May 20 12:26:38 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:26:38 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
Message-ID: <1179689198.4650a0eeb5b26@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Lea Stogdale <leadale at mts.net>:

> I found the discussion bemoaning the impending obsolescence of "The Book"
> interesting if Luddite.

Is the general public still
> reading "The Book"? As the numbers of books published each year continues
> to increase; as the number of large book stores, including independent ones
> such as McNally Robinson, continue to increase, and as CBC Radio One
> devoted its entire "Sunday Morning" three hour program today to "The Book",
> the answer must be Yes.


I would also add to Lea's note that of late technology has also helped to give
us better designed and (sometimes) better made cheap books for the general
public.  There really is some stunningly inventive publications design being
carried out today.  (A specific point of comparison would be to the bulk of
book design in the 1970s amd 1980s.)  The fact that Durrellians have helped to
foster that sensitivity to combining aesthetic and technology and imagination
should be a point of pride.  (I am thinking of our friends at the University of
Baltimore.)

Charles

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sun May 20 12:46:00 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:46:00 -0400
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
In-Reply-To: <1179689198.4650a0eeb5b26@squirrel.wfu.edu>
References: <1179689198.4650a0eeb5b26@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070520194604.SVRO4560.gx5.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>


>Lea accuses me of being a Luddite, and I happily accept the title. 
>Pynchon has written that he's one, so I'm in bad company.

Yes, the evidence seems to be against my position. We have 
mega-bookstores, and large private bookstores. And the novelists keep 
turning books out at one per year. People foregather at bookstores 
and discuss their reading. Writers are on the road glad-handing and 
signing and giving lectures (some of them). The mega-stores have live 
and disked music, bistros, restaurants, playgrounds for the kids, 
candles, candy, you name it. In fact, they seem more like malls than 
bookstores. Why go anyplace else?

Will this last?

I guess "not," but all the evidence is on your side.

Bill

>Is the general public still
> > reading "The Book"? As the numbers of books published each year continues
> > to increase; as the number of large book stores, including independent ones
> > such as McNally Robinson, continue to increase, and as CBC Radio One
> > devoted its entire "Sunday Morning" three hour program today to "The Book",
> > the answer must be Yes.
>
>
>I would also add to Lea's note that of late technology has also helped to give
>us better designed and (sometimes) better made cheap books for the general
>public.  There really is some stunningly inventive publications design being
>carried out today.  (A specific point of comparison would be to the bulk of
>book design in the 1970s amd 1980s.)  The fact that Durrellians have helped to
>foster that sensitivity to combining aesthetic and technology and imagination
>should be a point of pride.  (I am thinking of our friends at the 
>University of
>Baltimore.)
>
>Charles
>_______________________________________________
>ILDS mailing list
>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds

***************************************
W. L. Godshalk		*
Department of English         *
University of Cincinnati            Stellar disorder  *
Cincinnati OH 45221-0069      *
513-281-5927
***************************************



From bskordil at otenet.gr  Sun May 20 12:56:48 2007
From: bskordil at otenet.gr (Beatrice Skordili)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 22:56:48 +0300
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine -- "The Case of the Missing Green
	Fingerstall"-revisited
References: <20070520011927.IPKU13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu><046A1F1E-0675-11DC-95E6-000393B1149C@btinternet.com><20070520021140.ITDZ13769.gx4.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<009001c79af2$7818c1c0$267c4b55@lacan>
Message-ID: <010701c79b19$006cda90$267c4b55@lacan>

Charles has written to ask me to make "The Case of the Missing Green 
Fingerstall" available on the list. As I offered to make it available and it 
has already entered the public domain in some sense, I am attaching it to 
this email, though I am keenly aware of its limitations to which I alluded 
to in my previous email. That said, I will add, that though I have found 
much to add, I have not found reasons to change my main argument as 
presented in this text.


    For anyone interested, however, in where I locate the limitations of 
this text (I am thinking of Bill here, who has also written to ask for it) I 
will present here a couple of points to contextualize it a bit:
    In looking it over, I realize how early in my attempt to approach the 
issue of versions I was at that stage: I was only aware of one major textual 
addition to the Quartet in 1962, for instance. The text was also severely 
limited in scope, being a conference paper: I only list two cases in which 
textual changes significantly affect the understanding of the text between 
editions (cases, which I nevertheless, I consider highly representative).
    The introduction via Korzybski seems rather gratuitous now. In fact, I 
recall Ian McNiven asking me why I thought Korzybski was significant after I 
delivered the paper in Corfu. Why indeed? Because, (besides the reasons I 
provide in my text), Durrell had borrowed, it seemed to me, the phrase 
"Great Semantic Disturbance" from Korzybski that is so significant in his 
_Key to Modern British Poetry_. (I mention it here, just in case it is of 
use to someone.) Relevant, but not too relevant: as it turned out that 
Durrell was getting some of his provocative Relativity claims from Lewis and 
Spengler, of all places! These are the vagaries of textual work that I 
alluded to in my previous email (a lot of false starts, in other words).

Beatrice 
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From dtart at bigpond.net.au  Sun May 20 13:03:32 2007
From: dtart at bigpond.net.au (Denise Tart & David Green)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:03:32 +1000
Subject: [ilds] writing as therapy
References: <20570041.1179677503431.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net><2918C3D7-06F9-11DC-9409-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070520192351.WISQ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <003901c79b19$f15efb90$0202a8c0@MumandDad>

  I do have the feeling 
  that Durrell is always writing about his world and himself, and that he 
  is desperately trying to escape both.  And failing.

  :Michael

  Writing as therapy, Michael? very common. 
  There is no doubt that in Prospero's Cell, for example, Durrell is trying to recapture a little of glory days he spent on Corfu. He makes this clear in the preface when he talks of the German victories and the perceived fact that he would never see Corfu again. Corfu was also his muse at the time;

  "I set about trying to memorize its beauties before they faded from my mind and ceased to spur the poems I was then writing".

  of course In some cases writing can become a kind of exorcism and the reader is left harrowed. I find Quintet harrowing at times.

  DG
Denise Tart & David Green
16 William Street, Marrickville NSW 2204

+61 2 9564 6165
0412 707 625
dtart at bigpond.net.au
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: william godshalk 
  To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca 
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 5:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [ilds] also the world of books



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From michaelhaag at btinternet.com  Sun May 20 15:16:57 2007
From: michaelhaag at btinternet.com (Michael Haag)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 23:16:57 +0100
Subject: [ilds] also the world of books
In-Reply-To: <20070520192351.WISQ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
Message-ID: <D2B37785-071F-11DC-A773-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>

I am aware, Bill, of the piece you did years ago about Durrell's 
sources for many scenes and details concerning moulids, Copts, etc, in 
the Quartet.  In some cases, as you are aware, Durrell did more than 
draw on sources, he came close to reproducing them verbatim.  And I can 
add further instances, for example of material he took from Fedden.  I 
wonder how academics who closely examine and analyse texts interpret 
these cases of paraphrase and plagiarism in Durrell?

:Michael


On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 08:23  pm, william godshalk wrote:

> I do have the feeling
> that Durrell is always writing about his world and himself, and that he
> is desperately trying to escape both.? And failing.
>
> :Michael
>
>
> Yes, but Durrell's "world" was also a world of books, and some of the 
> scenes in the AQ are taken, not from life, but from books. Durrell may 
> change some words and the context, but still the basis of the scene is 
> a book. I'm thinking of J. W. McPherson's The Moulids of Egypt 
> (because I have it on my desk) from which Durrell took details for 
> Balthazar.
>
> Bill_______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
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From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Sun May 20 14:41:58 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 23:41:58 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Arnauti as real
In-Reply-To: <2918C3D7-06F9-11DC-9409-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <2918C3D7-06F9-11DC-9409-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4650C0A6.6060702@interdesign.fr>

Sorry Michael, I disagree completely. The heart of 
LD writing is that it is fictional truth, that we 
can understand and connect to. He wrote and he 
lived. His writing is true. This is not possible 
from someone trying to escape... more so the 
opposite; All the personalities are both real and 
fiction including the author.
Marc

Michael Haag wrote:

> My answer is that when I first Durrell, which was in the form of The 
> Alexandria Quartet, I felt that behind many of the characters there 
> were real people.  That was probably just the effect of Durrell writing 
> in the first person.  Nevertheless that sense stayed with me.  In time 
> I discovered that a great deal of Durrell's creations in the Quartet -- 
> characters, settings, events -- were based on or in some way owed their 
> origin to real characters, settings and events.  There is nothing 
> surprising about this.  Writers do it all the time.  And of course what 
> writers also do is base creations on themselves.  I do have the feeling 
> that Durrell is always writing about his world and himself, and that he 
> is desperately trying to escape both.  And failing.
> 
> :Michael
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 05:11  pm, Bruce Redwine wrote:
> 
> 
>>On 5/20/07, Charles Sligh asks,
>>
>>>But I have a question for you, Sumantra:  How did you first realize 
>>>that
>>>Arnauti and Purswarden were not "real"?  That question is serious, and
>>>the answer could get to the bottom of the "tricks" that Durrell is "up
>>>to" in his books.
>>
>>                                             * * * * *
>>
>>My answer.  At the time of my primal event with M. Durrell (not Dr. 
>>Durrell), age sixteen of my youth, I never thought any "person" in his 
>>book was real.  They were all fictional characters.  I naively assumed 
>>then that fiction was by definition unreal.  Now, of course, after 
>>discussions on the List, I know that none of us is real.
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ILDS mailing list
>>ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
>>https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 

From marcpiel at interdesign.fr  Sun May 20 14:49:27 2007
From: marcpiel at interdesign.fr (Marc Piel)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 23:49:27 +0200
Subject: [ilds] Durrell & the Book
In-Reply-To: <1179689198.4650a0eeb5b26@squirrel.wfu.edu>
References: <1179689198.4650a0eeb5b26@squirrel.wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <4650C267.8060302@interdesign.fr>

Yes Charles, I agree, the Book is far from dead. 
Digital technoly is bringing us a new type of 
publication.
Those who fear the demise of the book are those 
that are closed (blind) to new horizons.
@+ Marc

Charles Sligh wrote:

> Quoting Lea Stogdale <leadale at mts.net>:
> 
> 
>>I found the discussion bemoaning the impending obsolescence of "The Book"
>>interesting if Luddite.
> 
> 
> Is the general public still
> 
>>reading "The Book"? As the numbers of books published each year continues
>>to increase; as the number of large book stores, including independent ones
>>such as McNally Robinson, continue to increase, and as CBC Radio One
>>devoted its entire "Sunday Morning" three hour program today to "The Book",
>>the answer must be Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I would also add to Lea's note that of late technology has also helped to give
> us better designed and (sometimes) better made cheap books for the general
> public.  There really is some stunningly inventive publications design being
> carried out today.  (A specific point of comparison would be to the bulk of
> book design in the 1970s amd 1980s.)  The fact that Durrellians have helped to
> foster that sensitivity to combining aesthetic and technology and imagination
> should be a point of pride.  (I am thinking of our friends at the University of
> Baltimore.)
> 
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> ILDS mailing list
> ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
> https://lists.uvic.ca/mailman/listinfo/ilds
> 
> 

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sun May 20 16:03:22 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:03:22 -0400
Subject: [ilds] pilfering in the world of books
In-Reply-To: <D2B37785-071F-11DC-A773-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
References: <20070520192351.WISQ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<D2B37785-071F-11DC-A773-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20070520230325.WYBJ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>

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From leadale at mts.net  Sun May 20 15:56:53 2007
From: leadale at mts.net (Lea Stogdale)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:56:53 -0500
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG 2.1 Atheist?
Message-ID: <01C79B08.4054A040.leadale@mts.net>

Was LD an atheist?
He has Balthazar say: 'We are all hunting for rational reasons for believing in the absurd.'
Lea

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From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sun May 20 16:36:28 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:36:28 -0400
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG 2.1 Atheist?
In-Reply-To: <01C79B08.4054A040.leadale@mts.net>
References: <01C79B08.4054A040.leadale@mts.net>
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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sun May 20 18:55:26 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:55:26 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.8 - 2.10
Message-ID: <1179712526.4650fc0ecb1fd@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Now we move on on to reading and discussing _Justine_ 2.8 - 2.10.  This push
takes us through the introduction of Scobie, our first encounter with Clea, and
some important reflections upon Justine, Pombal, and Sveva.

Post well; post often.

Charles

From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sun May 20 19:15:45 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 22:15:45 -0400
Subject: [ilds] RG Justine 2.8 - Scobie
Message-ID: <1179713745.465100d134885@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Charles Sligh <slighcl at wfu.edu>:

> Now we move on on to reading and discussing _Justine_ 2.8 - 2.10.  This push
> takes us through the introduction of Scobie[. . . .]

I would like to throw down Scobie's dentures as a challenge.  Is there anything
in _Justine_ that surpasses Durrell's prose and poise as he has Darley relate
the life and career of El Skob?  I think that only the duck hunt comes close,
but I wait for responses and worthy challenges.  Here follows a sampling of the
best moments.  If you have not reread _Justine_ 2.8 for some time, now you owe
it to yourself.  CLS

* * * * *

"No mythology of the city would be complete without its Scobie, and Alexandria
will be the poorer for it when his sun-cured body wrapped in a Union Jack is
finally lowered into the shallow grave which awaits him at the Roman Catholic
cemetery by the tramline." (2.8)

"Youth is beardless, so is second childhood." (2.8)

"Physically he has drawn heavily upon the replacement department[. . . .]" (2.8)

"Scobie is a sort of protozoic profile in fog and rain[. . . . ]" (2.8)

"Frankly Scobie looks anybody's age; older than the birth of tragedy, younger
than the Athenian death.  Spawned in the Ark by a chance meeting and mating of
the bear and the ostrich; delivered before term by a sickening grunt of the
keel on Ararat.  Scobie came forth from the womb in a wheel chair with rubber
tyres, dressed in a deer-stalker and a red flannel binder." (2.8)

From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sun May 20 19:30:31 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 22:30:31 -0400
Subject: [ilds] ILDS RG 2.10 God?
In-Reply-To: <01C79B08.4054A040.leadale@mts.net>
References: <01C79B08.4054A040.leadale@mts.net>
Message-ID: <1179714631.4651044703b44@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting Lea Stogdale <leadale at mts.net>:

> Was LD an atheist?

I have always read LD's characters' references to "God" as synonymous with
"reality."  Which means that they are referencing something problematic,
something of which human attempts are always falling short.

But to the text!

"I do not belive that there is any system which can do more than pervert the
essential idea.  And then, all these attempts to circumscribe God in words or
ideas. . . . No one thing can explain everything; though eberything can
illuminate something[. . . .] If God were anything he would be an art." (2.10)

I would note that this is Pursewarden in 1957, not Durrell _in toto_ in 1957 or
throughout his writings.  What would we say of Durrell's views of God in 1970
or 1980 or 1989?  Is he stable in his views of "God"?

And what to make of Justine playing with her idol--Queequeg redux???

"God I must be drunk." [deleted from above]

Charles

From godshawl at email.uc.edu  Sun May 20 20:25:21 2007
From: godshawl at email.uc.edu (william godshalk)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 23:25:21 -0400
Subject: [ilds] pilfering in the world of books
In-Reply-To: <20070520230325.WYBJ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.emai
	l.uc.edu>
References: <20070520192351.WISQ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
	<D2B37785-071F-11DC-A773-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
	<20070520230325.WYBJ26782.gx6.fuse.net@bill-hdl5a49h32.email.uc.edu>
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From slighcl at wfu.edu  Sun May 20 20:42:16 2007
From: slighcl at wfu.edu (Charles Sligh)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 23:42:16 -0400
Subject: [ilds] pilfering in the world of books
Message-ID: <1179718936.465115186612e@squirrel.wfu.edu>

Quoting william godshalk <godshawl at email.uc.edu>:

> Instead of
> reading Durrell as a novelist, I began reading his as a plagiarist --
> trying to catch him stealing from others. Of course, we know that he
> acknowledges some of his "borrowing" but only minimally. He was
> indeed a literary thief.

Call me enthusiastic, but I have to say that these borrowings--even the blatant
ones--have never phased me or dampened my "belief."  Everything that I have
learned about literary history endorses this lack of concern with "absolute
originality."  Literary originality--the ideal of the artist working in
splendid isolation, unconcerned with material needs and not reliant on sources
or collaboration--is something that comes to us from the Romantics and, even
more so, from the institutionalization of the Romantics.  Shakespeare never
worked that way.  Pope never worked that way.  And certainly Wordsworth, Keats,
and Shelley never only worked that way.  So I rather enjoy Durrell's magpie
nature. I have no doubt that most of his sources would not be recalled quite so
often without his pilfering.

Charlie

From durrells at otenet.gr  Sun May 20 21:43:23 2007
From: durrells at otenet.gr (Durrell School of Corfu)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:43:23 +0300
Subject: [ilds] also the world of books
References: <D2B37785-071F-11DC-A773-000393B1149C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c79b62$90842c70$0100000a@DSC01>

A significant amount of material in Prospero's Cell was 'lifted' by D from Sophie Atkinson, An Artist in Corfu (London: Herbert & Daniel; Boston: Dana Estes, 1911) which he lists in the select bibliography.
RP
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael Haag 
  To: ilds at lists.uvic.ca 
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [ilds] also the world of books


  I am aware, Bill, of the piece you did years ago about Durrell's sources for many scenes and details concerning moulids, Copts, etc, in the Quartet. In some cases, as you are aware, Durrell did more than draw on sources, he came close to reproducing them verbatim. And I can add further instances, for example of material he took from Fedden. I wonder how academics who closely examine and analyse texts interpret these cases of paraphrase and plagiarism in Durrell? 

  :Michael


  On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 08:23 pm, william godshalk wrote:


    I do have the feeling
    that Durrell is always writing about his world and himself, and that he
    is desperately trying to escape both.  And failing.

    :Michael


    Yes, but Durrell's "world" was also a world of books, and some of the scenes in the AQ are taken, not from life, but from books. Durrell may change some words and the context, but still the basis of the scene is a book. I'm thinking of J. W. McPherson's The Moulids of Egypt (because I have it on my desk) from which Durrell took details for Balthazar.

    Bill_______________________________________________
    ILDS mailing list
    ILDS at lists.uvic.ca
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